View Full Version : SHEPARD SMITH STREAMING: Reports of possible explosion at Ariana Grande concert in UK
platoonDaddy
05-22-17, 17:37
Hopefully it isn't an explosion:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5369642345001/?#sp=show-clips
Confirmed details of the deadly explosion during an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena on Monday:
At least 22 people were killed and as many 56 others were being treated at a total of eight hospitals across Manchester, police confirmed early Tuesday.
Police identified the killer as 22-year-old Salman Abedi. He was British, a European security official told The Associated Press.
The victims who died were as young as 8.
Police said they were treating the explosion as a "terrorist incident" until they know otherwise. Manchester police said they were working with national police and intelligence agencies to investigate.
Ariana Grande tweeted: "broken. from the bottom of my heart, i am so so sorry. i don't have words." She was not injured, a representative for the singer said.
The blast rang out in a "public space" outside the venue, according to arena officials.
I don't know who that is, but fingers crossed that all are safe.
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Some fatalities confirmed. Might be from stampeding and such vs explosions, but it sounds like bad ju ju so far. Another Mormon attack, remains to be seen.
If it's another snak bar attack, May justice be swift and without compromise. Get your big boy pants on UK and Euro low T countries, cuz they're gunning for you. Let the SAS and the lads lose already.
Some are saying explosion. Others are saying a speaker blew and people panicked and the casualties are from the stampede.
Only videos I have seen so far were from after the fact.
Linebacker
05-22-17, 18:43
20+ dead. Nail bomb blasts.
A dash cam caught the sound. IMHO, sounds like a subsonic pressure cooker or pipe type device.. It was pretty muffled so hard to be sure. A few of the pictures being released sure look like ambulatory shrapnel wounds..
Hope I'm wrong. It would suck if it was another Amish attack
Plumber237
05-22-17, 18:59
From the pictures of the injured being taken out that are floating around FB, I'll echo what Det-Sog said, they surely look like shrapnel related wounds.
Coal Dragger
05-22-17, 19:16
Self delete, removing comment other users considered flippant or offensive.
Apologies.
platoonDaddy
05-22-17, 19:19
From the pictures of the injured being taken out that are floating around FB, I'll echo what Det-Sog said, they surely look like shrapnel related wounds.
A dash cam caught the sound. IMHO, sounds like a subsonic pressure cooker or pipe type device.. It was pretty muffled so hard to be sure. A few of the pictures being released sure look like ambulatory shrapnel wounds..
Hope I'm wrong. It would suck if it was another Amish attack
As stated, based on the picture it looks like some-type of IED
Islam strikes again...
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Multiculturalism for the win.
My son has been to two of her concerts in Boston. It's all he wanted last year for Christmas. He commented both times about seeing police with machine guns. Looks like we know why. I hope she comes out with a positive statement. She tends to piss me off with her public remarks.
The British are pretty damn squared away. This is frustrating. Sounds like a suicide bomber outside the event security. Right where people would gather to pick up their kids after the concert.
Outlander Systems
05-22-17, 20:05
https://youtu.be/cb3i1dejBsI
Unfortunately, when the culprit is found, it won't surprise us which demographic he's from. And we are bigots to notice these unfortunate trends.
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The families of the victims and all of the survivors will be in my prayers. I can honestly say that the asshole performing will not.
Before the Donut shop incident, I though Ariana Grande sounded like a menu item at Taco Bell™.
She seems to be a pop star for a lot of teen and pre-teen females. I hope no little girls were killed or maimed by this terrorist attack.
Outlander Systems
05-22-17, 20:33
America-bashing chaps my ass.
But unfortunately, I think children were hurt/killed in the event.
I'd pray for the families, but praying for some hard-dicked, multicam-clad, meat-eating skytroopers will yeild more effective results.
Before the Donut shop incident, I though Ariana Grande sounded like a menu item at Taco Bell™.
She seems to be a pop star for a lot of teen and pre-teen females. I hope no little girls were killed or maimed by this terrorist attack.
Despite the fact that her music is incredibly inappropriate for kids, I know a lot to go her concerts. Hopefully there weren't any kids killed or maimed. Regardless, it's past time to remodel the snak bar. :mad:
Before the Donut shop incident, I though Ariana Grande sounded like a menu item at Taco Bell™.
1: She's Italian... Name makes her sound of latin descent, but that chick is from Boca Raton and 100% stromboli.
2: She's a spoiled rich kid. Mom's CEO of a telecom company (which her family owns), and daddy has a design firm. Her feel for the plight of any social group is a BS hybrid of rich kid guilt (actually quite common for rich kids to feel tremendous "guilt" about having it so well and having had nothing to do with earning it) and a publicity stunt.
Fake news. There's no way there were more than 19 people at an Ariana Grande concert.
1: She's Italian... Name makes her sound of latin descent, but that chick is from Boca Raton and 100% stromboli.
2: She's a spoiled rich kid. Mom's CEO of a telecom company (which her family owns), and daddy has a design firm. Her feel for the plight of any social group is a BS hybrid of rich kid guilt (actually quite common for rich kids to feel tremendous "guilt" about having it so well and having had nothing to do with earning it) and a publicity stunt.
Center mass hit.
Coal Dragger
05-22-17, 21:41
Fake news. There's no way there were more than 19 people at an Ariana Grande concert.
Self delete to remove offensive comment.
I dislike pop music as much as anyone, but this seems like a pretty extreme way to express that.
ban him
Fake news. There's no way there were more than 19 people at an Ariana Grande concert.
Him too
Maybe a little too soon..... but still pretty damn funny.
In no way is that funny. There are possibly kids killed. 19 dead.
19 dead as of latest update and 50+ injured. Dont care if the Grande chick is a c**t of epic proportions but pre teens wanting to enjoy a night of music and fun dont deserve what they got.
Imported multiculturalism for the win. Not sure what the Brits can do to take back their country anymore, but I sure hope they get a clue and distribute some justice are required. By justice I don't mean random violence to combat random violence, but rather some actual justice to people who actually need it.
MountainRaven
05-22-17, 23:08
In no way is that funny. There are possibly kids killed. 19 dead.
BBC is reporting on the radio that the attack targeted, "Children and parents."
So is more than likely than some kids are among the dead.
Coal Dragger
05-22-17, 23:16
ban him
Didn't mean to give offense.
I will delete my previous comments.
Coal Dragger
05-22-17, 23:19
19 dead as of latest update and 50+ injured. Dont care if the Grande chick is a c**t of epic proportions but pre teens wanting to enjoy a night of music and fun dont deserve what they got.
Imported multiculturalism for the win. Not sure what the Brits can do to take back their country anymore, but I sure hope they get a clue and distribute some justice are required. By justice I don't mean random violence to combat random violence, but rather some actual justice to people who actually need it.
Are we jumping to a conclusion about who perpetrated this? I haven't seen anyone claim responsibility yet.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-17, 00:03
If it is a pressure cooker type, how do you get that into a concert?
The death total and injury count seems high compared to usual vest bombers?
Looks like it happened outside the arena. Guy walks up into a crowd of people leaving and lights off a backpack?
Sounds like they have a suspect, or two halves of one more likely, so we'll get the intent soon.
19 dead as of latest update and 50+ injured. Dont care if the Grande chick is a c**t of epic proportions but pre teens wanting to enjoy a night of music and fun dont deserve what they got.
Imported multiculturalism for the win. Not sure what the Brits can do to take back their country anymore, but I sure hope they get a clue and distribute some justice are required. By justice I don't mean random violence to combat random violence, but rather some actual justice to people who actually need it.
Here's hoping the SAS will be kicking some doors.
Are we jumping to a conclusion about who perpetrated this? I haven't seen anyone claim responsibility yet.
At risk of being culturally insensitive, it does seem to fit a profile and comes on the heels of Trump telling the Saudi's they need to reject Islamic extremism, which is a bit ironic given that Saudi is the epicenter of Wahhabi but that's another discussion.
ETA: Looks like ISIS is claiming it and stating the bomber was a former Gitmo detainee.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/22/british-suicide-bomber-jamal-al-harith-not-monitored-by-security-services
If it is a pressure cooker type, how do you get that into a concert?
Any number of ways unfortunately. I've seen a guy smuggle in a full bong into a concert, not a small one, I am talking one at least 18 inches tall with a good four inch wide base, if not bigger. I was actually impressed to be honest. More so that he managed to not get thrown out and return to light up another joint at the end of the concert after security yanked his ass when he lit the bong up at the start. Point being, I wouldn't be surprised if they did manage to get a full on pressure cooker bomb into the place. Not sure how heavy security was at this place but I can pretty well promise you I could get knives, and guns into pretty much any concert with a little thought and a couple lies. Most security really isn't there to stop the determined, just the ones who are trying to skirt the rules. A pressure cooker or bomb might take a little more forethought and determination, but, honestly, likely a lot less effort than most would like to think unfortunately.
Coal Dragger
05-23-17, 00:29
I don't think you're being culturally insensitive. In fact I'd bet it was a peace loving Muslim that did it. Just hate to jump to that conclusion... even when it is 99.9% predictable.
This makes Barry's efforts to release GITMO detainees look that much better. How high is that recidivism rate now I wonder?
Never mind. He was released in 2004.
Here's hoping the SAS will be kicking some doors.
At risk of being culturally insensitive, it does seem to fit a profile and comes on the heels of Trump telling the Saudi's they need to reject Islamic extremism, which is a bit ironic given that Saudi is the epicenter of Wahhabi but that's another discussion.
ETA: Looks like ISIS is claiming it and stating the bomber was a former Gitmo detainee.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/22/british-suicide-bomber-jamal-al-harith-not-monitored-by-security-services
That article is about a suicide bomber in Mosul and is from February.
That article is about a suicide bomber in Mosul and is from February.
Google got me again.
platoonDaddy
05-23-17, 06:52
About an hour following the 1st news reports, the POS of shit Shepard commented (paraphrasing) that a few look like fake blood! Went on to comment on how bad of a make-up job it was.
Don't understand how that guy keeps his job.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-17, 07:03
Is it just me or does this not seem to be getting that much attention? I'm traveling, so I'm mainly looking at online coverage, but you'd think that with an attack on kids, with this many casualties, this would be getting more coverage? Are we reaching that level of desensitivity? Sure it is getting covered, but compared to some of the breathless coverage of Trump, this seems almost subdued.
No release on the bomber, even though they could have done so by now.
Last night only fox was covering. Nothing live on abc, CBS, nbc
Found it very odd
Averageman
05-23-17, 07:47
About an hour following the 1st news reports, the POS of shit Shepard commented (paraphrasing) that a few look like fake blood! Went on to comment on how bad of a make-up job it was.
Don't understand how that guy keeps his job.
He sucks?
Is it just me or does this not seem to be getting that much attention? I'm traveling, so I'm mainly looking at online coverage, but you'd think that with an attack on kids, with this many casualties, this would be getting more coverage? Are we reaching that level of desensitivity? Sure it is getting covered, but compared to some of the breathless coverage of Trump, this seems almost subdued.
No release on the bomber, even though they could have done so by now.
Unfortunately things like this have become "normal" in Europe over the last few years. Soon it will be relegated to the ticker along the bottom unless the body count is higher than 50.
It does appear this morning that ISIS has claimed responsibility and there is an involved person/ suspect in custody.
From the religion of peace, spreading their message of goodwill and tolerance throughout the world:
http://i.imgur.com/fR0mmtM.jpg
Outlander Systems
05-23-17, 08:42
Political correctness has consequences.
Mushrikin = "Polytheists"
We need fewer prayers, and more U.S. Army Rangers.
ETA:
"LONDON -- CBS News confirmed Tuesday that the man who blew himself up the previous night at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England, was 23-year-old Salman Abedi, who was known to British authorities prior to the attack."
Tell me again, how bulk collection in Five Eyes nations is working out for us all? I definitely feel like I'm getting my money's worth. :rolleyes:
From the religion of peace, spreading their message of goodwill and tolerance throughout the world:
http://i.imgur.com/fR0mmtM.jpg
About an hour following the 1st news reports, the POS of shit Shepard commented (paraphrasing) that a few look like fake blood! Went on to comment on how bad of a make-up job it was.
Don't understand how that guy keeps his job.
Fox has been compromised. It's falling to the left. I wouldn't be surprised if this tool box ends up bumping Tucker for Bill O's old slot.
We're going to need a new news source soon. Fox is going to still be a little more "right leaning" than the usual suspects, but it will be a shell of what it was before Ailes left and the Murdoch kids took over.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-17, 09:08
When was the last time that one of these guys did something totally out of the blue? We always seem to have them under some kind of scrutiny.
Fox has been compromised. It's falling to the left.
We're going to need a new news source soon. .
Condolences to the wounded and those that lost the lives, may their families find peace.
As for the news source, all I want is a source that report the news as it is, without leaning left or right, facts are facts. Apparently that is almost near impossible.
As for the news source, all I want is a source that report the news as it is, without leaning left or right, facts are facts. Apparently that is almost near impossible.
Agreed, 100%.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/manchester-arena-attack-isis-claim-114400027.html
Condolences to the wounded and those that lost the lives, may their families find peace.
As for the news source, all I want is a source that report the news as it is, without leaning left or right, facts are facts. Apparently that is almost near impossible.
The concept of journalistic integrity left the building a long time ago. At this point, we have to use various sources to piece together the facts, and make an assessment. We/they know few people are willing or capable of doing such, and hence we have a population of mostly brain dead consumer bots. Pretty much what they wanted all along, be they left or right. A informed person is the biggest enemy out there to the left or right at this point, or any gov. seeking to control the masses.
The concept of journalistic integrity left the building a long time ago. At this point, we have to use various sources to piece together the facts, and make an assessment. We/they know few people are willing or capable of doing such, and hence we have a population of mostly brain dead consumer bots. Pretty much what they wanted all along, be they left or right. A informed person is the biggest enemy out there to the left or right at this point, or any gov. seeking to control the masses.
This.
How did they ID the bomber? Dental records?
Outlander Systems
05-23-17, 10:09
I'll take FaceRec from CCTV for $400, Alex.
This.
How did they ID the bomber? Dental records?
I'll take FaceRec from CCTV for $400, Alex.
Haha Roger that
Outlander Systems
05-23-17, 10:30
:p
The UK is the most heavily surveilled population on planet earth.
Haha Roger that
:p
The UK is the most heavily surveilled population on planet earth.
Which is great as it allows you to watch the event from 20 different angles after the event...
WickedWillis
05-23-17, 12:06
Us joking about kids getting blown up because of who the pop singer's show they were attending, is not far off from the Left joking about Sandy Hook because it aligns with their politics. I feel like we are better than that.
Us joking about kids getting blown up because of who the pop singer's show they were attending, is not far off from the Left joking about Sandy Hook because it aligns with their politics. I feel like we are better than that.
When faced with the unthinkable tragedy of something like this:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/manchester-arena-attack-first-victim-named-georgina-callander-084509931.html
Some people cope with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows_humor
I'm neither advocating nor criticizing it, just pointing out a fact of life. When life deals out shit sandwiches, someone will ask to pass the ketchup. :(
WickedWillis
05-23-17, 12:21
When faced with the unthinkable tragedy of something like this:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/manchester-arena-attack-first-victim-named-georgina-callander-084509931.html
Some people cope with this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows_humor
I'm neither advocating nor criticizing it, just pointing out a fact of life. When life deals out shit sandwiches, someone will ask to pass the ketchup. :(
I wasn't calling anyone out directly, just an observation.
I wasn't calling anyone out directly, just an observation.
No worries here, just more food for thought. It really is a crappy day. :(
im reading on Yahoo! and they have a list of "facts" and says reports say that ISIS has claimed responsibility: WTF? Does ISIS have a social media page with an official press release? The lone attacker is 23 years old and his name is Salman Abedi and from Libya.
im reading on Yahoo! and they have a list of "facts" and says reports say that ISIS has claimed responsibility: WTF? Does ISIS have a social media page with an official press release? The lone attacker is 23 years old and his name is Salman Abedi and from Libya.
Yes. They have their own magazine too, "Dabiq" (now called "Rumiyah"). :(
Averageman
05-23-17, 13:09
I heard a dozen kids under the age of 16 died.
Now how does that equate to killing any "Crusaders"?
Getting close to the time to start another crusade..........invade the whole area with a multi national Christian lead force.
Why weren't they blowing us up before we started heavily meddling in their affairs?
Outlander Systems
05-23-17, 17:48
****ing really, dude?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794
Why weren't they blowing us up before we started heavily meddling in their affairs?
****ing really, dude?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Act_of_1794
18th century piracy? Really?
Outlander Systems
05-23-17, 17:53
Islamic pirates were stealing merchant ships and enslaving the crews.
But yeah, tell me more about the peaceful nature of Islam.
18th century piracy? Really?
Why weren't they blowing us up before we started heavily meddling in their affairs?
You're joking, right?
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RetroRevolver77
05-23-17, 17:57
Let me guess how the events will play out; front page headlines, day of prayer, tearful pictures of the mourning, candlelight vigil, moment of silence, some cultural solidarity bullshit and then even some hugs for Muslims- until the next time one blows up some people. Rinse and repeat.
learn history man !!!!!!!!!
learn about when we were first a country in the 1700 and the massive problems with them !!!!
and all the ay back to 500-600 ad or so when it all started !!!!
ye you said before we meddled !!! well they started it around 500-600 AD and have not stopped since
whats scary is some of the folks here that have NO CLUE of history absolutely 0 !!!!
ether they are young (under30) and this is what they are told and they blindly believe or they are truly naive and never bothered fact checking themselves from the modern progressive education system
Why weren't they blowing us up before we started heavily meddling in their affairs?
18th century piracy? Really?
Modern international terrorism didn't begin until the late 1960s.
Outlander Systems
05-23-17, 18:14
Dude.
Vlad the Impaler. Wallachia.
Just...dude.
Modern international terrorism didn't begin until the late 1960s.
About an hour following the 1st news reports, the POS of shit Shepard commented (paraphrasing) that a few look like fake blood! Went on to comment on how bad of a make-up job it was.
Not sure what he was referring to, but some of the early photos were fake. Like the ones with Grande covered in blood. And some of the missing children were file photos of actors.
As we all know, all early reports during a live incident are often wrong, and lots of jokers out there adding to the fury.
Getting close to the time to start another crusade..........
As I made a while ago:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/2cb1f2a90c84e94dae41e911079e217eb5329d08ed7e1065657f7bc086ad3449_zpszube8vim.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/willbrink/media/2cb1f2a90c84e94dae41e911079e217eb5329d08ed7e1065657f7bc086ad3449_zpszube8vim.jpg.html)
Not sure what he was referring to, but some of the early photos were fake. Like the ones with Grande covered in blood. And some of the missing children were file photos of actors.
As we all know, all early reports during a live incident are often wrong, and lots of jokers out there adding to the fury.
Surprise? This is an ongoing theme with these types of events.
and of course the religion of peace in the Philippines today also
OH they are so loving and tolerant !!! but if we did not mess with them a few years ago they would not be doing this !! its our fault oh I need my safe space and everything will be ok
learn history man !!!!!!!!!
learn about when we were first a country in the 1700 and the massive problems with them !!!!
and all the ay back to 500-600 ad or so when it all started !!!!
ye you said before we meddled !!! well they started it around 500-600 AD and have not stopped since
whats scary is some of the folks here that have NO CLUE of history absolutely 0 !!!!
ether they are young (under30) and this is what they are told and they blindly believe or they are truly naive and never bothered fact checking themselves from the modern progressive education system
We don't often agree but we are pretty much in line here.
I will say that the 500-600s were a bit different. In that case we are talking about war. Standing armies fighting over who was right. Pretty typical stuff.
Outside of that though? Yeah pretty much spot on. Barbary pirates are a great example.
These animals are scum. They don't care who they kill. They will target men, women and children regardless of nationality or religion. Hell this attack isn't even in the top 10 attacks so far in 2017. In fact the top 10 terrorist attacks of this year have resulted in over 400 deaths and upwards of 800 injuries. All of these attacks happened in predominantly Muslim countries against mainly Muslim victims. We just don't hear about it as much over here since our news doesn't report much from that area unless it directly impacts us.
I feel it is high time we started treating the problem like we did Japan in WW2. No holds bared against the people who perpetrate these attacks. Drop a few more MOABs on their nests and watch them scurry about. Then go in and clean up, educate the populace and turn them into allies.
The problem is our political leaders don't have the balls for it. They either don't want to drop the bombs and get their hands dirty like the left or they are to afraid of the cleanup and rebuilding like W was. Nobody is willing to go the whole 9 yards.
Do you believe that his behavior was a direct result of following the teachings of the Quran?
These animals are sure as hell not. Or to be more specific they are cherry picking what teachings they follow.
Here are just a few that show the lie to their claim of following any part of mainstream Islam.
“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.”
“We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.”
"Where are those who loved each other for the sake of My glory? Today, - on a day when there is no shade but mine – I shall shade them with My shade.”
“One should help his brother whether he is an oppressor or the one being oppressed. If he is an oppressor, forbid him from his oppression and in that way you help him. If he is being oppressed, then come to his aid.”
Don't get me wrong. I hate it as much as I hate any religion. But it is false for this scum to claim they represent the whole of, the majority or, or even a large fraction of 2.2 Billion other people.
and of course the religion of peace in the Philippines today also
OH they are so loving and tolerant !!! but if we did not mess with them a few years ago they would not be doing this !! its our fault oh I need my safe space and everything will be ok
I'm under the impression that Islam is a death cult of goat humpers, but I'm still trying to make sense of it all.
Can anyone suggest any good books on (radical) Islam?
They couldn't have gotten Shepherd Smith instead?
I'm under the impression that Islam is a death cult of goat humpers, but I'm still trying to make sense of it all.
Can anyone suggest any good books on (radical) Islam?
If you can get over the liberal hysteria about the author, Glenn Beck's "It IS About Islam".
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FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-17, 19:46
Why weren't they blowing us up before we started heavily meddling in their affairs?
Don't know what you are exactly referring to, but there is this idea that the ME was fine until the 2000s when GW broke it. Being in my mid 40s, I find this almost humorous, but it fits into a theory I have. People divide history into two equal portions. Stuff before they were conscious (age 8 or so) and stuff since then. So for 20 somethings that fits to be where all they have really known was the GWOT, but they know it is 'new'. They really don't have any direct knowledge to the ME before 9/11, so the current state is all because of what we did. Now, granted the ME is in horrible shape, but the forces that are doing it are nothing new. Our going in there and trying to spreading democracy before building up individual rights just let the sectarian fight become the main political feature.
We screwed up, we trusted the people there to act like modern, educated people like so many of them were. Unfortunately, they hadn't weeded out there 7th Century Crew and they are paying the price.
think someone is trolling ?
Don't know what you are exactly referring to, but there is this idea that the ME was fine until the 2000s when GW broke it. Being in my mid 40s, I find this almost humorous, but it fits into a theory I have. People divide history into two equal portions. Stuff before they were conscious (age 8 or so) and stuff since then. So for 20 somethings that fits to be where all they have really known was the GWOT, but they know it is 'new'. They really don't have any direct knowledge to the ME before 9/11, so the current state is all because of what we did. Now, granted the ME is in horrible shape, but the forces that are doing it are nothing new. Our going in there and trying to spreading democracy before building up individual rights just let the sectarian fight become the main political feature.
We screwed up, we trusted the people there to act like modern, educated people like so many of them were. Unfortunately, they hadn't weeded out there 7th Century Crew and they are paying the price.
This.
People seem to forget that the WTC was bombed the first time on February 26, 1993. Prior to that they were mostly too busy fighting the Russians. But they attacked us when they could in Somalia (October 1993), the bombing of the USS Cole (October 2000), the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon (October 1983) and the taking of US hostages in Iran 1979.
Attacking us is really nothing new, especially if we are over there. The ability to attack us here, and the incredible number of people willing to appease them which allows them to operate here is really the only thing that has changed over the years.
Remember, Islam is about peace.
Averageman
05-23-17, 21:20
I'm pretty sure that flowers, hashtags and and monuments to the dead aren't going to fix this.
I have a feeling Churchill would handle this differently.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-17, 21:28
If this was a pressure cooker bomb, that means they are going back up the complexity line. Most of the recent attacks have been cars and trucks. That meant to me that more sophisticated plans were being intercepted. The fact that this guy was on a watchlist, and I know I'm bad guy, and was able to put together a bomb means that perhaps they have new tactics.
If this was a pressure cooker bomb, that means they are going back up the complexity line. Most of the recent attacks have been cars and trucks. That meant to me that more sophisticated plans were being intercepted. The fact that this guy was on a watchlist, and I know I'm bad guy, and was able to put together a bomb means that perhaps they have new tactics.
And it need be no more elaborate than "let my associates who are unknown build everything for me and I'll walk it in." I fear the day these psychos actually become sophisticated. 9-11 was elaborate, but not terribly sophisticated. Sadly there were more than a few missed opportunities to possibly prevent that event.
Exactly. Remember the talk of people coming over to the San Berndino folks' home and "building" stuff in the garage? Same here. Find some useful idiot to dupe and then a mysterious package shows up and dupe goes to get his virgins. I think there is a reason why they threat level in the UK is at its highest and it aint for the TV ratings. Dollars to donuts they dont think they have the maker ID'd and have reason to believe he/she is still on the loose.
As far as the whole they didnt blow up shit till we started messing with them goes. Millennials need to read something other than Reddit or DU to maybe get some factual history into those largely empty heads. Its been going on for thousands of years. Remember those ugly Crusades. With all the favor vampires have these days, youd figure someone would actually know something about the real Dracula and what got him all riled up. Or maybe even something a bit closer like the late 60's and onward. Shootings, assassinations, bombings, hijackings... I truly wish it was something as simple as GW screwed up cause relatively speaking that would be EASY to fix.
I know that its not PC these days to speak the truth, but our 2 cultures are like oil and water. On a grand scale they just dont mix. The places where we have had success in mixing has been on small scale indvidual levels. Small communities of people living together. Once a critical mass is reached the mob mentality takes over. Kind of like liberal cities. We can have small cities run very conservatively, but look at how once they reach a tipping point they self destruct into liberal shitholes...
Thoughts on this?
http://theantimedia.org/manchester-terror-attack-agree/
Official Kremlin Transmission
Modern international terrorism didn't begin until the late 1960s.
That's about the time that autocratic regimes in Muslim lands, started losing control over the savages within their borders. With the advent of globalization, the savages began exporting terror on a larger scale. The internet is synonymous with the "industrial revolution" of terrorism. You don't even have to be brave enough to meet potential recruits face to face. Just click, type and send. :(
Modern international terrorism didn't begin until the late 1960s.
Untrue, modern international terrorism probably began with the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 by Palestinian Jews who were trying to drive out their British landlords. Things got progressively worse from there.
Of course there were lots of killings and murders going back to the 1920s and many of them could qualify as terrorist attacks. In 1929 Palestinian riots incited by arabs resulted in the deaths of 249 people, few people today even know that ever happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Hard to say who got the party started but we could probably go back a couple thousand years pointing fingers.
modern terrorism ? is just a time frame of terroism happening but terrorism been going on since the start of islam
terrorism ? violence against civilians for political reasons
remember muhammad was a politician turned warrior
and islam is a political movement more than a religion ! and while religion has its place they have there own laws etc..
what is muhammed sitting with his 12 year old bride watching jews being beheaded and the heads put into a pile for people to see !
if that is not terrorism what is ?
so middle east was Christian and the Muslims killed and destroyed pretty much all Christians throughout all of the middle east and this was over 1000 years ago !!
look at the spread through 100s of years of them terrorizing the world and even if we go up to the birth of our country they were still doing what they did in the 600-700s !
and why again they would even terrorize a young USA at the time !
so even before modern it was happening by muslims and has not stopped for over 1000 years !
I think the guy is trolling !
Not trying to be funny but until two days ago I didn't know what an ariana grande was, I really thought it sounded like some kind of overpriced coffee drink.
As for the attack focusing on the children and younger adults, I'm surprised that the savages has not targeted a school yet. But I feel it's coming.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-24-17, 08:44
Not trying to be funny but until two days ago I didn't know what an ariana grande was, I really thought it sounded like some kind of overpriced coffee drink.
As for the attack focusing on the children and younger adults, I'm surprised that the savages has not targeted a hereschool yet. But I feel it's coming.
I get terror as a tactic. You wear down a population and increase transaction costs. When these guys target the most innocent of the innocent, what exactly is their aim? "Let's kill some of their kids, that will convince them that our way is the right way to go." Just pure retribution for our actions against them? Like they can't fathom that we can dish out at 10,000:1 ratios if we wanted?
Target a school, kill some kids, take hostages and go out in a blaze of gunfire? I really don't know what Trump would do.
Modern terrorism didn't begin until the late 1960's is like saying modern communications began in the age of the internet and so nobody communicated until that point.
Terrorism has been around since the beginning of time. No bombs, pressure cookers... Maybe not so much in the USA due to distance more that the benevolence of the terrorists. Think back to the Middle Ages, crusades. Vlad the Impaler didn't just go nuts. He was reacting to Muslim invaders terrorizing, raping, pillaging Transylvania. Christianity and Islam have been killing each other for thousands of years. The 2 are not compatible.
The only changes to terrorism has been technological improvements and improvements in travel around the planet. One group doesn't have to walk a zillion miles to kill the other.
And one group (for the most part) has decided to not go on killing rampages around the globe cause they are offended.
I get terror as a tactic. You wear down a population and increase transaction costs. When these guys target the most innocent of the innocent, what exactly is their aim? "Let's kill some of their kids, that will convince them that our way is the right way to go." Just pure retribution for our actions against them? Like they can't fathom that we can dish out at 10,000:1 ratios if we wanted?
Target a school, kill some kids, take hostages and go out in a blaze of gunfire? I really don't know what Trump would do.
I was told a story by a contractor friend of mine about a bomber who blew up a nursery school of Muslim children in Afghanistan.
MOAB, MOAB, MOAB, MOAB.
I was watching a few Vietnam movies this weekend, and after hearing the news of the attach in Manchester it occurred to me that maybe we should bring back napalm.
I get terror as a tactic. You wear down a population and increase transaction costs. When these guys target the most innocent of the innocent, what exactly is their aim? "Let's kill some of their kids, that will convince them that our way is the right way to go." Just pure retribution for our actions against them? Like they can't fathom that we can dish out at 10,000:1 ratios if we wanted?
Target a school, kill some kids, take hostages and go out in a blaze of gunfire? I really don't know what Trump would do.
Wait: a person is willing to blow themselves up in the name of religion, but you're expecting them to make logical decisions about target selection. These people are nucking futs. There is no logic behind what they do.
The fact of the matter is that we can't dish out 10:1 kill ratio much less that 10k:1. We DO NOT HAVE THE GUTS for that kind of war anymore. Gone are the days of bombing an entire city into rubble cause it has a Messerschmidt factory in it. Hell we refuse to enter a Mosque that we KNOW has combatants and supplies in it cause we don't want to offend anyone.
They KNOW that the West has chosen to tie its hands and are exploiting it. Hopefully our perspectives change, but I'm not holding my breath.
Untrue, modern international terrorism probably began with the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 by Palestinian Jews who were trying to drive out their British landlords. Things got progressively worse from there.
Of course there were lots of killings and murders going back to the 1920s and many of them could qualify as terrorist attacks. In 1929 Palestinian riots incited by arabs resulted in the deaths of 249 people, few people today even know that ever happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
Hard to say who got the party started but we could probably go back a couple thousand years pointing fingers.
If you go by the wave theory of Terrorism that Rapoport came up with (which most in the industry use) the fourth and current wave of terrorism started in 1979 with the Iranian revolution.
It is an interesting read: http://international.ucla.edu/media/files/Rapoport-Four-Waves-of-Modern-Terrorism.pdf
Averageman
05-24-17, 10:29
Wait: a person is willing to blow themselves up in the name of religion, but you're expecting them to make logical decisions about target selection. These people are nucking futs. There is no logic behind what they do.
The fact of the matter is that we can't dish out 10:1 kill ratio much less that 10k:1. We DO NOT HAVE THE GUTS for that kind of war anymore. Gone are the days of bombing an entire city into rubble cause it has a Messerschmidt factory in it. Hell we refuse to enter a Mosque that we KNOW has combatants and supplies in it cause we don't want to offend anyone.
They KNOW that the West has chosen to tie its hands and are exploiting it. Hopefully our perspectives change, but I'm not holding my breath.
This;
I learned a new word today, the word is Horrorism, the terrorists ramp up the horror until it holds the people hostage to the shear fear, pictures and the spectacle of it.
We are held immobile and unwilling to move like deer in the headlights.
Until we decide to regress a bit as a society and take the gloves off we will be held hostage to terror and horror.
I'm pretty sure that flowers, hashtags and and monuments to the dead aren't going to fix this.
I have a feeling Churchill would handle this differently.
Found this on twitter...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/d0ff4a8d7045661e05900640b2f95fb3.png
Not sure if it's really from a WW2 vet, but I've heard similar.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One difference between the war against Japan and the war against ISIS/Alqueda/Taliban that don't have an organized army and are scattered in small groups all over a continent. I can see how it is hard to kill them by the ten thousands at once. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for killing all of them.
WickedWillis
05-24-17, 12:14
One difference between the war against Japan and the war against ISIS/Alqueda/Taliban that don't have an organized army and are scattered in small groups all over a continent. I can see how it is hard to kill them by the ten thousands at once. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for killing all of them.
Exactly. It's a different ideal then a unified Country we are fighting against, and that is why you can't kill this ideology as easily and demoralize them. Everyone is wanting to drop MOAB's now, and drop nukes, but it's never been that simple in this war with ISIS.
titsonritz
05-24-17, 12:52
So level the entire middle east? Check, got it.
WickedWillis
05-24-17, 13:23
So level the entire middle east? Check, got it.
Because slaughtering millions of innocents is kind of our thing......
That's about the time that autocratic regimes in Muslim lands, started losing control over the savages within their borders. With the advent of globalization, the savages began exporting terror on a larger scale. The internet is synonymous with the "industrial revolution" of terrorism. You don't even have to be brave enough to meet potential recruits face to face. Just click, type and send. :(
Air travel also became easier beginning in the 1960s. Take easy/relatively inexpensive travel, weak visa/immigration policies, social justice/political correctness handicapping nations' abilities to keep the problem groups out, and the ease of information sharing with the internet and we are ripe for this in the modern age.
Not trying to be funny but until two days ago I didn't know what an ariana grande was, I really thought it sounded like some kind of overpriced coffee drink.
As for the attack focusing on the children and younger adults, I'm surprised that the savages has not targeted a school yet. But I feel it's coming.
Different savages but Belsan.
If you go by the wave theory of Terrorism that Rapoport came up with (which most in the industry use) the fourth and current wave of terrorism started in 1979 with the Iranian revolution.
It is an interesting read: http://international.ucla.edu/media/files/Rapoport-Four-Waves-of-Modern-Terrorism.pdf
Curious why Munich 1972 wouldn't be considered the starting point.
Averageman
05-24-17, 15:14
The parallels between immigration policy and violence have yet to hit home here. If you don't thoroughly investigate the people you are letting in, this is what happens. That once they are here and then become radicalized is going to be hard enough to deal with.
This guy was very likely on someone's radar, but the environment of political correctness in Great Britain prevented them from visiting his home and family. So I wonder, just how many trips does it take for someone to visit Libya and travel throughout the ME before someone from the IC comes to see what you've been up to?
In comparison, Obama's open border policy was very much like what has gone on in Europe for some time. Eventually we will see what they are dealing with here inside CONUS.
I hate to think it will, but I'm becoming more sure that we will have our "Belsan" here. I would hope we would have the intelligence and fortitude to start taking some less than Liberal/Progressive actions to prevent it.
Averageman
05-24-17, 15:29
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/24/manchester-bomber-salman-abedis-father-was-part-al-qaeda-linked-group-ex-libyan-official-says.html
Manchester bomber Salman Abedi apparently wasn't the only member of his family to harbor extremist views, as Libyan officials arrested the suicide bomber's father and two brothers and uncovered what investigators called a plot for a new attack.
In this Wednesday, May 24, 2017 photo, Hashim Ramadan Abedi appears inside the Tripoli-based Special Deterrent anti-terrorism force unit after his arrest on Tuesday for alleged links to the Islamic State extremist group. Abedi is the brother of Salman Abedi, who has been identified as the man behind the bombing that killed 22 people and wounded scores at an Ariana Grande concert Monday night in Manchester. The Special Deterrent Force says that Hashim confessed both he and his brother were a part of the Islamic State group and that Hashim had been aware of the details of the attack. (Ahmed Bin Salman, Special Deterrent Force via AP)
Expand / Collapse
Hashim Abedi, brother of Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi, on Wednesday after his arrest in Tripoli. (Ahmed Bin Salman, Special Deterrent Force via AP)
Hashim Abedi, who was born in 1997, was arrested in Tripoli on Wednesday evening by the Libyan counter-terrorism force Rada on suspicion of links to the Islamic State, and was planning a new attack on the Libyan capital, a government spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.
The father of the bomber was arrested in Tripoli on Wednesday, a Libyan security spokesman told The Associated Press. The father, Ramadan Abedi, had said another brother of the bomber, Ismail, was arrested Tuesday.
What's more, two U.S. defense officials confirmed to Fox News that Salman Abedi spent three weeks in Libya prior to the Manchester bombing, returning to England just days before the Ariana Grande concert Monday, when he launched his attack at the concert venue.
Salman's mother, Samia Tabbal, is believed to have returned to Libya, while the Facebook profile for his sister, Jomana, suggests that she still lives in Manchester.
Well, I hope Jomana's address makes it out there, she might need a visit.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/24/manchester-bomber-salman-abedis-father-was-part-al-qaeda-linked-group-ex-libyan-official-says.html
Manchester bomber Salman Abedi apparently wasn't the only member of his family to harbor extremist views, as Libyan officials arrested the suicide bomber's father and two brothers and uncovered what investigators called a plot for a new attack.
In this Wednesday, May 24, 2017 photo, Hashim Ramadan Abedi appears inside the Tripoli-based Special Deterrent anti-terrorism force unit after his arrest on Tuesday for alleged links to the Islamic State extremist group. Abedi is the brother of Salman Abedi, who has been identified as the man behind the bombing that killed 22 people and wounded scores at an Ariana Grande concert Monday night in Manchester. The Special Deterrent Force says that Hashim confessed both he and his brother were a part of the Islamic State group and that Hashim had been aware of the details of the attack. (Ahmed Bin Salman, Special Deterrent Force via AP)
Expand / Collapse
Hashim Abedi, brother of Manchester suicide bomber Salman Abedi, on Wednesday after his arrest in Tripoli. (Ahmed Bin Salman, Special Deterrent Force via AP)
Hashim Abedi, who was born in 1997, was arrested in Tripoli on Wednesday evening by the Libyan counter-terrorism force Rada on suspicion of links to the Islamic State, and was planning a new attack on the Libyan capital, a government spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.
The father of the bomber was arrested in Tripoli on Wednesday, a Libyan security spokesman told The Associated Press. The father, Ramadan Abedi, had said another brother of the bomber, Ismail, was arrested Tuesday.
What's more, two U.S. defense officials confirmed to Fox News that Salman Abedi spent three weeks in Libya prior to the Manchester bombing, returning to England just days before the Ariana Grande concert Monday, when he launched his attack at the concert venue.
Salman's mother, Samia Tabbal, is believed to have returned to Libya, while the Facebook profile for his sister, Jomana, suggests that she still lives in Manchester.
Well, I hope Jomana's address makes it out there, she might need a visit.
Just saw a report of a female arrest.
MountainRaven
05-24-17, 16:23
One difference between the war against Japan and the war against ISIS/Alqueda/Taliban that don't have an organized army and are scattered in small groups all over a continent. I can see how it is hard to kill them by the ten thousands at once. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for killing all of them.
Not all over one continent.
All over the globe.
I was told a story by a contractor friend of mine about a bomber who blew up a nursery school of Muslim children in Afghanistan.
done by another muslim of course !
but if its a story from a friend they heard from a friend kinda thing ?
but just google Beslan and you will see the true peaceful nature of muslims ! killing 385 in a school !
Averageman
05-24-17, 17:42
Just saw a report of a female arrest.
It's almost a shame that the Police got their before the effected parents...
One difference between the war against Japan and the war against ISIS/Alqueda/Taliban that don't have an organized army and are scattered in small groups all over a continent. I can see how it is hard to kill them by the ten thousands at once. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for killing all of them.
This is a huge difference of course, but in general one of simple logistics. Not easy by any stretch, but solvable if the civilized world wants to solve it. You definitely don't solve it by dropping leaflets on fuel supply trucks or filming convoys of folks waving guns and Isis flags instead of strafing them.
Nazis ideology exists to this day, just not as mainstream and vivacious as 70 years ago. Killing an ideology is next to impossible. But you can sure as shit limit its recruitment potential through fear of immediate death.
Averageman
05-24-17, 18:19
A great idea would be if you enter a terror zone, you need an bullet proof reason to return from it.
Multiple trips, sorry,...
Because slaughtering millions of innocents is kind of our thing......
Like in Japan?
This is a huge difference of course, but in general one of simple logistics. Not easy by any stretch, but solvable if the civilized world wants to solve it. You definitely don't solve it by dropping leaflets on fuel supply trucks or filming convoys of folks waving guns and Isis flags instead of strafing them.
Nazis ideology exists to this day, just not as mainstream and vivacious as 70 years ago. Killing an ideology is next to impossible. But you can sure as shit limit its recruitment potential through fear of immediate death.
... I'll add and culture. I truly believe Hitler was a great influencer and brainwashed a shit ton of people, by taking advantage of the situation.
Our culure marginalized radicals. The middle east is in a situation where the freaks are the loudest ones. It dosent help.
I guess no one wants to talk about the fact that our gov't funds terrorism.
I guess no one wants to talk about the fact that our gov't funds terrorism.
Then you haven't been listening.
Then you haven't been listening.
Haven't seen it mentioned here.
Haven't seen it mentioned here.
Here as in this thread? Or here as in M4C?
As I said...
Curious why Munich 1972 wouldn't be considered the starting point.
That was much more of a political move. The players just happened to be Muslim and Jews. At that time Black September was more connected to the communist Red Army Fraction then with any kind of jihadist organizations. Many of their members were Palestinian Christians and they were angry about the Israelis relocating Palestinian Christians many years before. None of these groups started to go all "aloha snackbar" until they saw that it was an effective tool to use after the Ayatollah Khomeini showed that it worked. Then everything became "aloha snackbar".
That was much more of a political move. The players just happened to be Muslim and Jews. At that time Black September was more connected to the communist Red Army Fraction then with any kind of jihadist organizations. Many of their members were Palestinian Christians and they were angry about the Israelis relocating Palestinian Christians many years before. None of these groups started to go all "aloha snackbar" until they saw that it was an effective tool to use after the Ayatollah Khomeini showed that it worked. Then everything became "aloha snackbar".
OK, also answers my questions about Entebbe and a few other events. As a purely "radically insane islamic terror" move the Iranian hostage event probably does start the chapter.
Amazingly most people forget the it's the same government in power today, that the President is a figurehead position and the country is still actually run by a radical "anti western" ayatolla and people like Kerry and Obama think they can negotiate with them. Many people in high government positions were those who took part in the seizing of the embassy back in 1979. Respecting an embassy is Diplomacy 101, if they can't do that then you can't do any kind of business with them.
Like in Japan?
Japan wasn't really innocent. Every man, woman and child viewed Hirohito as the legitimate son of heaven and pledged their lives in service of him and Japan. So while an 8 year old kid might not have personally performed atrocities at Unit 731, he actively did everything he could to support the Empire which engaged in those actions.
Japan earned their Hiroshima.
I guess no one wants to talk about the fact that our gov't funds terrorism.
Are you referring to our Middle Eastern "allies"?
scooter it has been discussed !!!!
just like our gov lets illegals run all over and get away with crimes etc..
just like they break the law trample our rights
NO I think most here have voiced up against our gov especially democrats like the clintons obama etc.. that let our people die and basically laugh about it
they truly get away with murder
heck even the fake republicans are bad !!!!
it truly is us vs them anymore
and yeah the gov have for sure donated to terrorists just like obama before he left office with a plane load of money to iran !!!!!!
look at hillary and her right hand iranian terrorist !!!
but then again the dems formed the KKK and did not want blacks to vote or women yet somehow they are the hero to both of the left in those groups of people in some sad way
stokholm syndrome on the masses
Moose-Knuckle
05-25-17, 06:00
Last night only fox was covering. Nothing live on abc, CBS, nbc
Found it very odd
As it was breaking CNN was still piling on the Trump Russia non story.
The one or two MSM outlets that did cover it had headlines like "An explosion at a concert in Manchester" nothing about a bombing or terror attack. They wanted people to think it could have been a gas "explosion" or maybe all that methane those tree huggers keep bitching about.
Japan wasn't really innocent. Every man, woman and child viewed Hirohito as the legitimate son of heaven and pledged their lives in service of him and Japan. So while an 8 year old kid might not have personally performed atrocities at Unit 731, he actively did everything he could to support the Empire which engaged in those actions.
Japan earned their Hiroshima.
And then some. When the UDT guys who were the very first to step on Japanese soil post nuke, they found huge numbers of suicide subs, caves full of explosives, weapons, etc, The entire population was expected to fight to the last person, and kill their kids, etc. Those nukes saved Japanese lives, and more importantly, US lives that were expected to be in the six figures for losses.
WickedWillis
05-25-17, 10:13
Like in Japan?
That was the point that I was getting at.
Are you referring to our Middle Eastern "allies"?
scooter is has been discussed !!!!
just like our gov lets illegals run all over and get away with crimes etc..
just like they break the law trample our rights
NO I think most here have voiced up against our gov especially democrats like the clintons obama etc.. that let our people die and basically laugh about it
they truly get away with murder
heck even the fake republicans are bad !!!!
it truly is us vs them anymore
and yeah the gov have for sure donated to terrorists just like obama before he left office with a plane load of money to iran !!!!!!
look at hillary and her right hand iranian terrorist !!!
but then again the dems formed the KKK and did not want blacks to vote or women yet somehow they are the hero to both of the left in those groups of people in some sad way
stokholm syndrome on the masses
Yep. Like the US giving money and arms to Saudi Arabia, the founders of Wahhabism, etc.
The proxy war in Syria between the US (ISIS) and Assad.
This is interesting:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/608
WickedWillis
05-25-17, 10:20
Yep. Like the US giving money and arms to Saudi Arabia, the founders of Wahhabism, etc.
The proxy war in Syria between the US (ISIS) and Assad.
This is interesting:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/608
The architects of 9/11 as well.
The architects of 9/11 as well.
Saudi? I remember something coming out about that not too long ago? Was that ever verified?
I don't doubt it one bit.
WickedWillis
05-25-17, 10:24
Saudi? I remember something coming out about that not too long ago? Was that ever verified?
I don't doubt it one bit.
There's the face value of where most of the attackers were from;
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/27/us/september-11th-hijackers-fast-facts/
And then the ensuing lawsuit from the victims families;
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/5-ways-saudi-arabia-allegedly-helped-terrorists-9-11-attacks-article-1.3003684
There's the face value of where most of the attackers were from;
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/27/us/september-11th-hijackers-fast-facts/
And then the ensuing lawsuit from the victims families;
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/5-ways-saudi-arabia-allegedly-helped-terrorists-9-11-attacks-article-1.3003684
It boggles my mind that we maintain a relationship with Saudi Arabia, especially one involving arms.
Oil?
WickedWillis
05-25-17, 10:29
It boggles my mind that we maintain a relationship with Saudi Arabia, especially one involving arms.
Oil?
Oil makes the world go 'round.
Political relationships between nations are not as clear cut black and white as one thinks.
Political relationships between nations are not as clear cut black and white as one thinks.
It's rather infuriating to say the least.
Averageman
05-25-17, 10:45
Political relationships between nations are not as clear cut black and white as one thinks.
Well it seems rather clear that we screwed the Brits with our inability to keep secrets.
At best our IC should be able to understand and operate with diplomacy and candor. We've got a leaky ship and it's been leaking since before Trump got there.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/manchester-police-stop-sharing-information-with-us-after-leaks-a3548201.html
The Prime Minister was set to raise the matter with Donald Trump at a Nato meeting in Brussels today.
However, it is not the first time that the US authorities have played “fast and loose” with confidential British information.
They are also accused of:
•Risking the life of a British double agent, who had infiltrated al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen, by revealing details in 2012 about a second and more sophisticated “underpants bomb” plot.
•Leaking information about “printer cartridges” bomb plots to bring down cargo jets which were foiled after a “tip-off” from Saudi Arabian security forces, with one of the devices found in a plane at East Midlands Airport in 2010.
•Giving out details of how bombs were made that were used in the July 7 2005 London terror attacks in which 52 people were killed.
Lord Blair, who was Metropolitan Police Commissioner at the time, described the Manchester leaks, which included pictures of shrapnel from the bomb, as a “very grievous breach”, adding: “It remains me exactly of what happened after 7/7”.
Asked about Mrs May’s reaction, a Whitehall source said: “Furious. That was the reaction across Whitehall.”
Yep. Like the US giving money and arms to Saudi Arabia, the founders of Wahhabism, etc.
The proxy war in Syria between the US (ISIS) and Assad.
This is interesting:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/608
Always felt our relationship with Saudi Arabia should have ended 9/12. There's simply no justification im aware of for the support they get other than it's made some very wealthy and the tit of their oil, which as I understand it, we don't actually need anymore.
Averageman
05-25-17, 11:32
Always felt our relationship with Saudi Arabia should have ended 9/12. There's simply no justification im aware of for the support they get other than it's made some very wealthy and the tit of their oil, which as I understand it, we don't actually need anymore.
The Money, oh yes, the money. It flows like, well like oil.
Isn't that special...
And then let me edit to add this;
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/05/24/mpls-brothers-arsenal-arrest/
Inside the brothers’ car, police found a loaded AK-47, another rifle, a handgun, a grenade, large amounts of ammunition, and what would later be identified as bomb-making materials, including a drone.
Abdullah Alrifahe had recently been released from jail after serving time for a weapons conviction. He is now facing a single felony weapons charge.
His brother, Majid, has been released from jail and is facing a low-level misdemeanor charges, including disorderly conduct.
The good Samaritan is outraged the charges aren’t more serious.
“For what they found in their car, that is way too light,” he said.
However, criminal defense attorney Joe Tamburino, who is not affiliated with the case, says prosecutors are doing what they can.
“These people have been charged with what the prosecutors can do right now,” he said, adding that more charges could come down later.
You don't hear about these things, they happen, but you just don't hear about them.
yeah a lot agree on we should not be selling to the Saudi !
and like mentioned when we found out who did 9/11 for sure all ties are cut and attack the source of the problem !!!
but whats your point ? in world politics we use them for their oil ?
its kinda like the guy you have no choice dealing with in some ways ?
and again how many here love our gov and politicians from either side ?
but that does not make us go out and blow children up and does not make Trump responsible for some jihadist !
they would be funded anyway so we are not funding them by definition !
now if you know you can send troops to defend a place and refuse that is direct cause like Clinton did or send a plane full of cash that is direct and those people should be in prison but it wont happen
so again we are not causing it they already have the cash ?
some could argue they are not using our weapons against us well again like obama and f&f did and kill Americans
then you as a taxpayer are directly responsible for what happened ? that of course is a stupid statement
just like the parents of of some bad guys are good people and some are bad ! but you cant blame the parent for the kid being a murderer although sometimes we would like to and other times its truly something went wrong !
so again whats the point ? our gov is not a jihadi in England blowing up kids and had nothing to do with it ?
islam has been at war since the beginning of its existents they are like the the left want world domination and control and what other group wanted that in WWII !!!!
that is what they are and again before we were a country they were doing this and at the birth they were doing this and they continue ! and will do so until they are eliminated in entirety or put back to such small numbers they cant do anything
the silent majority of Germans were not bad but they let the Nazis come to power and try to overtake and destroy the world ! so the so called innocent IMHO are not so innocent ! if they are not trying to stop the problem but are silent and hoping they win so life will be better for them !
Yep. Like the US giving money and arms to Saudi Arabia, the founders of Wahhabism, etc.
The proxy war in Syria between the US (ISIS) and Assad.
This is interesting:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/608
Um K...
https://i.imgur.com/AhUGnfR_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high
Um K...
https://i.imgur.com/AhUGnfR_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high
So it's hashtags, vigils and avatar changes again. Nice to see some consistency.
Always felt our relationship with Saudi Arabia should have ended 9/12. There's simply no justification im aware of for the support they get other than it's made some very wealthy and the tit of their oil, which as I understand it, we don't actually need anymore.
It's oil, but that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is an Islamic Monarchy, which we support and maintain vs. an Islamic Theocracy in Saudi Arabia. If the Saudi royals are taken out of power, like what happened in Iran, Saudi Arabia will become the epicenter of radical Islamic terrorism in a way we've never seen before. I know it's hard to imagine that the "Home of Wahhabi" could get worse, but it could get worse.
US Army loses $1B in arms meant for Iraqi Army. Oops...
http://www.dodig.mil/pubs/report_summary.cfm?id=7112
So it's hashtags, vigils and avatar changes again. Nice to see some consistency.
You forget rainbow flags added to facebook pages and "I'm with (fill in country attacked by Mormons here)" text. Then it's back to biz as usual.
It's oil, but that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is an Islamic Monarchy, which we support and maintain vs. an Islamic Theocracy in Saudi Arabia. If the Saudi royals are taken out of power, like what happened in Iran, Saudi Arabia will become the epicenter of radical Islamic terrorism in a way we've never seen before. I know it's hard to imagine that the "Home of Wahhabi" could get worse, but it could get worse.
As we have seen over and over, removing said bad guy only leaves a vacuum for things to get far worse, like arming "moderate" rebels against Assad, which as dictators go on the region, not all that bad. You'd think we would have learned something from Iraq, but apparently not. The issue seems one of consistency to me. It's a major reason our credibility lacking when we claim to do what do and support who we support when turning a blind eye to it when it's a source of oil and $. We all know the Saudi's are no friend of the US and suck as allies to boot and spend a great deal of effort undermining the US. I'm not for active regime change per se, but actively doing biz, selling 100b worth weapons (an Obama admin deal Trump should have squashed vs approved and per usual doing a 180), etc just seems bad mojo long term.
From a national security POV, reducing our need for oil would seem priority #1 so we can tell everyone but Israel to ESAD. I know, it's complicated.
You forget rainbow flags added to facebook pages and "I'm with (fill in country attacked by Mormons here)" text. Then it's back to biz as usual.
As we have seen over and over, removing said bad guy only leaves a vacuum for things to get far worse, like arming "moderate" rebels against Assad, which as dictators go on the region, not all that bad. You'd think we would have learned something from Iraq, but apparently not. The issue seems one of consistency to me. It's a major reason our credibility lacking when we claim to do what do and support who we support when turning a blind eye to it when it's a source of oil and $. We all know the Saudi's are no friend of the US and suck as allies to boot and spend a great deal of effort undermining the US. I'm not for active regime change per se, but actively doing biz, selling 100b worth weapons (an Obama admin deal Trump should have squashed vs approved and per usual doing a 180), etc just seems bad mojo long term.
From a national security POV, reducing our need for oil would seem priority #1 so we can tell everyone but Israel to ESAD. I know, it's complicated.
We can say "bye" to Israel as well.
We can say "bye" to Israel as well.
I can see the reasoning for both, but in my view, in our national interest to support Israel. We all know known of the surrounding countries give a damn about the Palestinians but see it as an ongoing method of draining them and attacking them. Not an expert on the region, but I'd bet $ the US and Euro countries send far more assistance, $, to the Palestinians than any Muslim country in the region, probably all of them combined.
We can say "bye" to Israel as well.
What?!?! It is the only country in the region whose values are actually in line with those of the west.
What?!?! It is the only country in the region whose values are actually in line with those of the west.
And who are on the same side of terrorism... that means against it.
As we have seen over and over, removing said bad guy only leaves a vacuum for things to get far worse, like arming "moderate" rebels against Assad, which as dictators go on the region, not all that bad. You'd think we would have learned something from Iraq, but apparently not. The issue seems one of consistency to me. It's a major reason our credibility lacking when we claim to do what do and support who we support when turning a blind eye to it when it's a source of oil and $. We all know the Saudi's are no friend of the US and suck as allies to boot and spend a great deal of effort undermining the US. I'm not for active regime change per se, but actively doing biz, selling 100b worth weapons (an Obama admin deal Trump should have squashed vs approved and per usual doing a 180), etc just seems bad mojo long term.
From a national security POV, reducing our need for oil would seem priority #1 so we can tell everyone but Israel to ESAD. I know, it's complicated.
There is another consideration, the Wahhabist also hate the Saudi Royal family. They would prefer an islamic theocracy. So in a strange way, even though they regularly screw us - up to and including support for the terrorists who would take them out of power as well, the Saudi royal family kind of needs us to keep them in power. If not for US support, Saudi would have an islamic revolution the next day.
Once upon a time we kept the wahhabi's mostly in check by surrounding them with moderate arab states like Iraq, Syria and Jordan. But we seem determined to remove that safety net.
There is another consideration, the Wahhabist also hate the Saudi Royal family. They would prefer an islamic theocracy. So in a strange way, even though they regularly screw us - up to and including support for the terrorists who would take them out of power as well, the Saudi royal family kind of needs us to keep them in power. If not for US support, Saudi would have an islamic revolution the next day.
Once upon a time we kept the wahhabi's mostly in check by surrounding them with moderate arab states like Iraq, Syria and Jordan. But we seem determined to remove that safety net.
Because Democracy.
How much does Israel actually contribute to combating terrorism?
There is another consideration, the Wahhabist also hate the Saudi Royal family. They would prefer an islamic theocracy. So in a strange way, even though they regularly screw us - up to and including support for the terrorists who would take them out of power as well, the Saudi royal family kind of needs us to keep them in power. If not for US support, Saudi would have an islamic revolution the next day.
Once upon a time we kept the wahhabi's mostly in check by surrounding them with moderate arab states like Iraq, Syria and Jordan. But we seem determined to remove that safety net.
The royal family supports the wahhabists who want to overthrow them?
The royal family supports the wahhabists who want to overthrow them?
Factions within factions. Every layer of the onion is different. :(
The royal family supports the wahhabists who want to overthrow them?
Basically, crazy right?
More accurate, the royal family needs to keep the wahhabists happy and pretend they are down with them while at the same time trying to keep the US convinced they are our ally and keep us happy so we keep them in power.
This all started right after WWII with the Truman accord. Basically we promised to secure their position in exchange for really cheap oil. Saudi hasn't really been holding up their end of the deal since the early 1970s. They take turns funding terrorists and giving us intelligence about terrorists plots.
To really understand all of this you have to remember Saudi is the number one teacher and promoter of wahhabi, the most radical form of islam and the one most terrorist types consider "the only true islam." And all those crazy radicals live in Saudi Arabia for the most part so you better believe the royal family needs to at least appear to be on their side.
Problem is those wahhabi's regularly target the royal family as much as anyone else and they want to see them gone and replaced by a true islamic theocracy. This is why they all have such a hard on for ISIS over there. Right now the only genuine islamic theocracy is Iran and that is a Shia muslim state, which is basically kryptonite for fundamentalist Sunni muslims. There are lots of Sunni majority muslim countries but none are a religious theocracy which is what they want more than anything else.
The scary part is everyone knows EXACTLY how the Shia were able to effect their islamic theocracy and a islamic revolution in Saudi is definitely the other shoe that everyone's been watching to drop. From a Sunni perspective, especially the crazy fundamentalists, Israel has their religious state, the Shia have their religious state but the followers of the "original and only true islam" don't have jack shit because their country is ruled by a monarch.
They may not recognize their right to exist, but they respect that Israel took Palestine by force of arms. They may HATE shia muslims, and in fact ISIS kills them whenever they find them, but they respect that they seized control of Iran by force. Currently ISIS is trying to create a true islamic theocracy in Iraq / Syria because they seem unable to take control in Saudi Arabia.
But there isn't a wahhabist in the world who wouldn't prefer it to happen in Saudi, it is literally the mecca for their beliefs. It would be like establishing Israel in eastern Egypt but not including Jerusalem.
How much does Israel actually contribute to combating terrorism?
Local intelligence. For the most part Israel isn't even allowed to play. In most cases we typically form a local coalition that includes people who don't recognize their right to exist and want all jews to convert to islam or just die. We will have a georgia chapter of the KKK with black membership before we will ever see a coalition of arab states that will accept Israels participation.
In the first Persian Gulf War, Saddam launched scud missile attacks against Israel hoping to bring them into the fight knowing it would collapse our MNF coalition. We had to not only provide a patriot missile defense system to protect Israel but we also basically did everything we could to prevent them from engaging in any form of proactive defense against an actual attack from Iraq.
Even if we didn't form some coalition of arab states, if we went to war in ANY arab state with Israel as an ally, it would unite pretty much every arab state to fight against us. So basically we can count of them for intelligence only. That last time they did more than that was probably when they provided arms to the Muj to fight the Russians and even then it had to be a secret where the weapons were coming from.
And if you think all of that is a goddam mess, wait until Iran officially becomes a nuclear power. This will tip the Sunni / Shia power balance in the region and you can bet anything that Saudi Arabia will demand to become a nuclear power to "protect themselves." It will make that entire India / Pakistan nuclear powder key look like a minor problem. The only thing more incredibly frightening than a nuclear Iran would be a nuclear Saudi Arabia.
The only question would be who gets nuked first. Iran would want to nuke the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia would want to nuke the US, Israel and Iran. And to make it really fun, both nations would be willing to completely sacrifice themselves if it meant they could nuke each other, Israel and the US. The only thing they really agree on is such an act would instantly martyr them and guarantee them a place in paradise for serving allah faithfully.
Moose-Knuckle
05-26-17, 04:36
Um K...
https://i.imgur.com/AhUGnfR_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4224/34769963001_a351f5887a_z.jpg
How much does Israel actually contribute to combating terrorism?
How much do you know about Israel? Steyr very nicely summed up the nature of Israel's contribution to the war on terror.
They are the lone outpost amidst a sea of terrorism in that region. Add to the fact that all of their neighbors are Muslim countries avowed to "push the Jews into the sea". The Israeli counter terror machine is one of the finest, if not the finest in the world because they live with the constant threat of terror, surrounded by enemies.
Averageman
05-26-17, 08:31
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/
The Manchester suicide bomber was repeatedly flagged to the authorities over his extremist views, but was not stopped by officers, it emerged Wednesday night.
Counter Terrorism agencies were facing questions after it emerged Salman Abedi told friends that “being a suicide bomber was okay”, prompting them to call the Government’s anti-terrorism hotline.
Sources suggest that authorities were informed of the danger posed by Abedi on at least five separate occasions in the five years prior to the attack on Monday night.
The authorities were also aware that Abedi’s father was linked to a well-known militant Islamist group in Libya, which is proscribed in Britain. Abedi also had links to several British-based jihadis with Isil connections.
Yesterday his father was detained by Libyan militia in the capital Tripoli while the suicide bomber’s two brothers have separately been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences.
https://www.rt.com/uk/389686-mi5-surveillence-manchester-terror/
Abedi’s support for terrorism was reported this year to MI5, and five years ago friends had called Britain’s anti-terrorist hotline with concerns about his views, the Times reports.
It is unclear whether Abedi had been under any form of surveillance.
It has emerged that the younger brother of Abedi, who was arrested in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, on Wednesday night, knew he was planning an attack in Manchester. Hashim Abedi, 18, has confessed that both he and his brother were members of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL).
According to the Mirror, Abedi was friends with Raphael Hostey, also known as Abu Qaqa al-Britani, who served as an IS recruiter before he was killed in 2016 in Syria by a drone strike.
Hmm that is interesting...
Let's bring this discussion back to the Manchester massacre. I understand all that historical Muslim, Islam, Arab and Israel things are interconnected but it's been brought up every time things like this happens and it will never change.
If there is no new opinion, news, info directly related to the bombing in Manchester, let's leave it out.
Thanks Averageman for beating me to the post :) good job.
Averageman
05-27-17, 09:15
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq
The two terrorists who have struck in Britain this year — Salman Abedi, the Manchester bomber, and Khalid Masood, the Westminster killer — were in the pool of “former subjects of interest” and no longer subject to any surveillance.
Anti-terrorism efforts came under renewed scrutiny when it emerged that Abedi, who murdered 22 people when he detonated a suicide bomb among crowds leaving a pop concert at Manchester Arena on Monday, had been a former subject of interest to MI5.
In a series of fast-moving developments yesterday and today:
● The prime minister downgraded the terror threat from “critical” to “severe” this morning, announcing that soldiers will remain deployed on the streets until Monday
● Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, the country’s most senior anti-terrorism police officer, said “significant arrests” meant that a “large part of the network” around Abedi had been wound up.
● Two key properties were identified: a flat in Blackley, north Manchester, where the explosives were made, and a short-term let apartment in the city centre where the device was assembled. Police said that they had “much of the risk contained”.
● It was announced that armed police would patrol some beaches this weekend as the threat level remained critical; there would also be a heavy police presence visible at hundreds of bank holiday events.
● Theresa May made the bombing an election issue by accusing Jeremy Corbyn of blaming British military action overseas for terrorist attacks in the UK. “I want to make one thing very clear to Jeremy Corbyn and to you: it is that there can never, ever be an excuse for terrorism,” she said.
● World leaders at the G7 summit in Sicily called on internet companies to act urgently and “substantially increase their effort to address terrorist content”. The prime minister said she was clear that “corporations can do more”.
Ben Wallace, the security minister, told The Times that the existence of a database of thousands of potential attackers was a stark illustration of the magnitude of the threat. “This reveals the scale of the challenge from terrorism in the 21st century,” he said. “Never has it been more important to invest in intelligence-led policing.”
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/apr/13/who-are-the-new-jihadis
Wherever such generational hatred occurs, it also takes the form of cultural iconoclasm. Not only are human beings destroyed, statues, places of worship and books are too. Memory is annihilated. “Wiping the slate clean,” is a goal common to Mao Zedong’s Red Guards, the Khmer Rouge and Isis fighters. As one British jihadi wrote in a recruitment guide for the organisation: “When we descend on the streets of London, Paris and Washington … not only will we spill your blood, but we will also demolish your statues, erase your history and, most painfully, convert your children who will then go on to champion our name and curse their forefathers.”
While all revolutions attract the energy and zeal of young people, most do not attempt to destroy what has gone before. The Bolshevik revolution decided to put the past into museums rather than reduce it to ruins, and the revolutionary Islamic Republic of Iran has never considered blowing up Persepolis.
This self-destructive dimension has nothing to do with the politics of the Middle East. It is even counterproductive as a strategy. Though Isis proclaims its mission to restore the caliphate, its nihilism makes it impossible to reach a political solution, engage in any form of negotiation, or achieve any stable society within recognised borders.
The caliphate is a fantasy. It is the myth of an ideological entity constantly expanding its territory. Its strategic impossibility explains why those who identify with it, instead of devoting themselves to the interests of local Muslims, have chosen to enter a death pact. There is no political perspective, no bright future, not even a place to pray in peace. But while the concept of the caliphate is indeed part of the Muslim religious imagination, the same cannot be said for the pursuit of death.
I find the first article rather concerning, that is a lot of people to keep track of, I'm not sure that mass deportation might be easier and much more effective.
The second article seems to almost apologize for the fact as it tries to explain "Why" this is happening. I'm hoping we move past "Why" and move forward to "No More".
But then that's not very socialist progressive of me is it?
Averageman
05-27-17, 09:28
http://www.cbs46.com/story/35531291/manchester-suicide-bomber-spoke-with-brother-15-minutes-before-attack
British authorities are trying to contain the network they believe is behind the Manchester attack as it emerged that the suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, reportedly spoke to his brother in Libya just 15 minutes before he detonated his explosives.
"We are following up on the network, rolling it up, trying to contain it. As you've seen from the number of arrests, we are on the right track to try to contain it," UK Security Minister Ben Wallace told CNN in Manchester on Friday. "In the end, you get to the bottom of a network."
Investigators continue to work around the clock to track down associates of Abedi, a 22-year-old Briton of Libyan descent, amid fears he is part of a network plotting further mayhem.
On Friday, authorities arrested a man from Manchester's Rusholme neighborhood.
Then, two more men were arrested early Saturday, police said in a statement. The men were taken into custody after officers carried out a controlled explosion to enter a home in the Cheetham Hill area of central Manchester.
Those actions brought the total number of people arrested in the investigation to 13, with 11 still in custody.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/manchester-concert-explosion/manchester-bombing-hunt-accomplices-hangs-over-long-weekend-n765006
A three-day weekend of security headaches loomed in Britain amid fears that members of a terrorist network linked to the Manchester bomber remained on the run.
Monday is a public holiday across the U.K. and several high-profile music festivals and sporting events are scheduled — bringing huge crowds together.
London's Metropolitan Police also said they would increase the number of armed officers on duty as the city hosts the FA Cup soccer final at the 90,000-capacity Wembley Stadium on Saturday, while 82,000 fans will attend rugby's Aviva Premiership Final.
For the first time in British history, armed police are also patrolling trains.
The presence of police and troops carrying guns is highly unusual in Britain's urban areas. More than 90 percent of the police officers tasked with protecting the capital's 8.5 million residents do not carry guns.
Security was also being stepped up ahead of the BBC Radio 1's Big Weekend music festival in the city of Hull, a two-hour drive east of Manchester. It features acts including Katy Perry, Lana Del Ray, Lorde and Kings of Leon.
Several soccer teams in England and Scotland said end-of-season victory parades and other celebrations would be cancelled in the wake of the attack.
you cant make this stuff up anymore about the UK !!!!!
Police Helicopter Deployed, Karaoke Machine Confiscated After Song Mocking Bin Laden Played at Party
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/27/police-helicopter-dispatched-garden-party-song-making-fun-bin-laden-offended-officer/
“This police officer said she took offense at the song and pressed her panic button on her body cam and that’s when about ten police turned up and the police helicopter.
“They are now investigating it as a racist crime. It is ridiculous.”
It is alleged that in addition to the parody song making fun of the dead terrorist, party-goers were also shouting “anti-Islamic abuse”, a suggestion the partygoers deny.
snip... which are all approved songs.
you cant make this stuff up anymore about the UK !!!!!
Police Helicopter Deployed, Karaoke Machine Confiscated After Song Mocking Bin Laden Played at Party
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/27/police-helicopter-dispatched-garden-party-song-making-fun-bin-laden-offended-officer/
I really don't even know what to say over that. I'm really dumbfounded. From the UK source should anyone think BB playling lose with the facts:
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/bin-laden-song-police-party-13097525
For our Brit friends, lets have a "F U Osama" party with effigies we shoot at and pictures of dead p
you cant make this stuff up anymore about the UK !!!!!
Police Helicopter Deployed, Karaoke Machine Confiscated After Song Mocking Bin Laden Played at Party
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/27/police-helicopter-dispatched-garden-party-song-making-fun-bin-laden-offended-officer/
Haha, what? Sounds like they are well on their way to sharia.
I really don't even know what to say over that. I'm really dumbfounded. From the UK source should anyone think BB playling lose with the facts:
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/bin-laden-song-police-party-13097525
For our Brit friends, lets have a "F U Osama" party with effigies we shoot at and pictures of dead p
this one was insane from the source and the shaking head thinking check my calendar is it the 1st of April !
ditto Mega well on their way !!!!
just the thought a police is offended !!!! OH NO panic and swoop in helicopters and all !!!
I can only imagine what they would be like in America on a ride along and being offended !!!
this one was insane from the source and the shaking head thinking check my calendar is it the 1st of April !
ditto Mega well on their way !!!!
just the thought a police is offended !!!! OH NO panic and swoop in helicopters and all !!!
I can only imagine what they would be like in America on a ride along and being offended !!!
Churchill is rolling in his f-ing grave:
“If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” - Winston S. Churchill
Moose-Knuckle
05-28-17, 02:28
Churchill is rolling in his f-ing grave:
As are all the great patriots of England's past.
As are all the great patriots of England's past.
The UK does not have free speech as a protected Right, hence how a country can go down a slippery slope like that.
"In comparison to the US and other liberal democracies, UK law tends to favour protecting people from ‘harmful’ speech rather than protecting all speech as an inherently good thing. Obviously this has good and bad points."
Protecting all speech is inherently good thing no matter how distasteful it is. If not, you end up like the UK or far worse
The UK does not have free speech as a protected Right, hence how a country can go down a slippery slope like that.
"In comparison to the US and other liberal democracies, UK law tends to favour protecting people from ‘harmful’ speech rather than protecting all speech as an inherently good thing. Obviously this has good and bad points."
Protecting all speech is inherently good thing no matter how distasteful it is. If not, you end up like the UK or far worse
Freedom of speech is under attack here at home- see 90% of the higher education campuses.
There are too many folks who want to stop freedom of speech and are in favor of laws to prosecute certain speech.
I wish I didn't know anyone in favor of this BS, but sadly my younger sister in law and older sister both want restrictions and laws against certain "hateful" and "hurtful" words.
We can't let them get what they want. We're pretty much the last country in the world where you have a reasonable freedom of speech...
at least some of the older UK folks know whats up (watch)
also he was supposed to be on the lockerbie 103 flight but missed it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQqdxQQ5Xtw
funny I am a old hardcore punk rock guy
most of those from my group are into shooting small gov etc..
sadly the rest are were a bunch of freaking posers ! cause punk was about anti gov and getting rid of control
some of them now are total libs big time !!! guess though that shows they were just following a trend
Just wow. As close as we are with the UK, still a very different culture:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/18699930_10154848836107408_3324440477789278001_n.jpg?oh=cf31e0794e7efbe9ee8da7c120d676ac&oe=59B0242B
Sometimes people bring things on themselves in the name of tolerance. That's disgusting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just wow. As close as we are with the UK, still a very different culture:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/18699930_10154848836107408_3324440477789278001_n.jpg?oh=cf31e0794e7efbe9ee8da7c120d676ac&oe=59B0242B
Wow.
Am I the only one who wished someone to have posted a response to the effect, "Don't you have more pressing matters, like catching the asshats responsible for stirring up said hate speech by bombing children?" Or "Last time I check killing masses of children was a crime as well are you doing anything to stop that?" I'm sorry, but it would appear that the UK has the priorities of the damned. Sadly, I fear most places are not that far off from them.
'
Wow.
Am I the only one who wished someone to have posted a response to the effect, "Don't you have more pressing matters, like catching the asshats responsible for stirring up said hate speech by bombing children?" Or "Last time I check killing masses of children was a crime as well are you doing anything to stop that?" I'm sorry, but it would appear that the UK has the priorities of the damned. Sadly, I fear most places are not that far off from them.
'
being offended by a song and having helicopters come in and 10 officers etc... by a song mocking bin laden :)
this tweet no pointy knives massive list of banned songs and speech and so on
its like some movie where you think NO WAY would people be that stupid !!!!
its like some movie where you think NO WAY would people be that stupid !!!!
Oh, I used to be that naive, then I woke up and realized that people aren't just that stupid. They are even more stupid than you or I ever thought they could be.
Just wow. As close as we are with the UK, still a very different culture:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/18699930_10154848836107408_3324440477789278001_n.jpg?oh=cf31e0794e7efbe9ee8da7c120d676ac&oe=59B0242B
Nanny State defined. And proof positive that no amount of regulation, scaling back of individual freedoms, kow towing to violent offenders or other "sensible controls" will protect you from what you fear most.
If they wanted to control "hate speech" they might want to visit a few mosques or islamic websites.
Moose-Knuckle
05-29-17, 04:58
Just wow. As close as we are with the UK, still a very different culture:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/18699930_10154848836107408_3324440477789278001_n.jpg?oh=cf31e0794e7efbe9ee8da7c120d676ac&oe=59B0242B
Ironic considering the amount of intel they had on the MUSLIM TERRORIST before he committed the bombing. Just imagine if they put even half the effort into stopping MUSLIM TERRORISTS as they do witch hunting concerned native Brits.
But then again these are the clowns we speak of . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAkErn1JBaY
I would just die if there was audio of; (cheering English accent) "I demand you stop in the name of her Majesty the Queen!" with the Benny Hill theme playing in the background. :lol:
speed it up and benny hill music :)
yeah seen that and a few others like that :) hahhhahaha pretty sad
platoonDaddy
05-29-17, 09:52
Now where did he get $400 for those trainers? !!
Suicide bomber Salman Abedi caught on CCTV in lift to Manchester Arena wearing £300 Nike trainers with his hand on trigger of homemade device moments before killing 22 innocent concert-goers
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3666189/manchester-terror-attacker-caught-on-cctv-moments-before-manchester-arena/
Averageman
05-29-17, 11:06
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/manchester-bombing-fresh-arrests-as-police-continue-hunt-for-terrorist-salman-abedis-network-a3551311.html
Fresh arrests have been made in connection to the Manchester suicide attack as police continue to hunt Salman Abedi's suspected accomplices.
Greater Manchester Police said a 19-year-old man had become the latest suspect detained over Monday's atrocity that left 22 people dead.
The teenager was arrested during an armed swoop on an address in the Gorton area of the city.
Hours earlier, a 25-year-old man was held on suspicion of terror offences in the Old Trafford district.
A week of intense police operations showed no sign of abating as counter-terror officers stormed addresses in Gorton, Rusholme and Moss Side.
The total number of suspects in custody now stands at 13.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40079948
Didsbury Mosque was identified as one of the mosques attended by bomber Salman Abedi and his family.
Fawzi Haffar, a trustee of the mosque, told BBC Panorama: "I have to be truthful. We have a lot to learn, [we] have to be more conscious".
He said the mosque needed "proper policies" in place to deter extremism.
Abedi blew himself up, killing 22 people as they were leaving a concert at Manchester Arena last week.
Mr Haffar told BBC Panorama: "When we did find out that he attended this mosque we had to really ask some of our employees whether they remembered him. And some of them say they did."
Averageman
05-29-17, 12:35
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20170529-fbi-warned-mi5-that-salman-abedi-was-planning-terror-attack-in-u-k
The FBI informed MI5, the British intelligence agency, that Salman Abedi was planning an attack on U.K. soil — three months before he blew himself up a concert hall in Manchester. The FBI told MI5 that Abedi was part of a North African Islamic State cell based in the north west of England, and which was plotting attacks in the United Kingdom. Abedi was placed on a U.S. terrorist watch list in 2016 after U.S. intelligence, while monitoring Islamist groups operating in Libya, noticed his communications with one of the groups.
The FBI informed MI5, the British intelligence agency, that Salman Abedi was planning an attack on U.K. soil — three months before he blew himself up a concert hall in Manchester.
Mail on Sunday reports that the FBI told MI5 that Abedi was part of a North African Islamic State cell based in the north west of England, and which was plotting attacks in the United Kingdom.
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20170526-manchester-bomber-had-close-connections-with-manchester-criminal-gang
The Manchester police say that the Manchester Arena suicide bomber, Salman Abedi, had close connections with criminal gangs in the city, as well as an association with a terrorist recruiter. Abedi, 22, was associated with a gang which has for years been waging war with a rival fang in south Manchester.
The police said they were also investigating Salman Abedi’s association with Raphael Hostey, who was killed last April in a U.S. drone strike in Mosul.
Hostey, a convert to Islam, has sponsored hundreds of terror recruits. The Guardian earlier this published an investigation which showed that sixteen convicted or dead terrorists lived within 2.5 miles of each other in south Manchester. They were part of a radical network and some prayed at the same mosque.
Fawzi Haffar, a trustee of the mosque, told BBC Panorama: "I have to be truthful. We have a lot to learn, [we] have to be more conscious".
You think Fawzi? Too little too late. If they have not learned their rhetoric is part of the issue fueling the behavior, they never will. Some how I don't think love and tolerance is what's preached in the mosque, but I'm a known islamophobe apparently.
Averageman
05-29-17, 13:48
You think Fawzi? Too little too late. If they have not learned their rhetoric is part of the issue fueling the behavior, they never will. Some how I don't think love and tolerance is what's preached in the mosque, but I'm a known islamophobe apparently.
I'm guessing the "Hate" rhetoric bring people in the doors.
It is no irony to me that on one hand you can be arrested for playing some music making fun of Bin Laden and on the other you can preach this hate from the pulpit.
The only bad thing about Europe is that it is filled with Europeans who seem bent on self destruction.
Averageman
05-29-17, 14:07
And speaking on bent on self destruction....
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/2017/05/26/uk-foreign-secretary-certainly-not-going-to-abandon-the-goal-of-integration/
Britain's foreign secretary said the United Kingdom would persist in its efforts to assimilate different cultures, though Boris Johnson said he's "not going to pretend to you that every individual in every community feels as well-adjusted as they should, and that is something that we need to work on together."
Johnson vowed that the coalition would win on the battlefield against ISIS and work at "winning the intellectual and the emotional struggle as well -- we can and we will, because they are wrong, their view of the world is corrupt, it is a perversion of Islam, and it can be completely confounded."
"You may not know my great-grandfather was a Muslim and he came to this country -- indeed, he came to Wimbledon -- in the early part of the last century, and there you go. I became -- I went on to become the mayor of London and, indeed, foreign secretary," he said. "So integration is possible. It's what we should aspire to. It's what we can achieve. And I think if you look at the America -- the American commonwealth, you look at what's been achieved there, you look at the success of London -- I think that's what we should be aiming for."
"...But I am certainly not going to abandon the goal of trying to get people to identify and to love the country that they come to. That is the most important thing. When people come to this country, they have to become British, and if they're going to live here and they're going to work here, they must become part of our society and espouse its values. That's what we believe in."
It's all rainbows and Unicorns until the next bomb goes off, isn't it??
davidjinks
05-29-17, 15:11
So the bomber was known by multiple high level agencies. British intelligence was warned by US intelligence that this guy was going to attack. No one stopped him and he succeeded in his attack.
And yet it's a crime in Britain to call a spade a spade or in this case, a terrorist Muslim a terrorist Muslim.
Am I understanding all this correctly?
"...But I am certainly not going to abandon the goal of trying to get people to identify and to love the country that they come to. That is the most important thing. When people come to this country, they have to become British, and if they're going to live here and they're going to work here, they must become part of our society and espouse its values. That's what we believe in."
And if they have no intention and interest in doing that? When Irish, Germans, Italians, etc came in large numbers they came in hopes of making a new life, a life they could not have where they came from. They didn't ignore or lose their heritage, but they didn't come to simply recreate the county they come from. It would seem so far, the US has a fairly integrated Muslim population compared to many other countries, but that too may change. I'm not religious person but I will say the one thing the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc all had in common was they tended to have come from a judeo christian cultural under pinning. That may have been the one primary factor that allowed them all to sorta kinda get along and integrate.
the mosques know whats up
when this happens the ones he went to get torn down and a bacon/sausage stand with a cross goes up in their place !
everyone associated with it gets deported and any kinda citizenship revoked and be done with the people
Averageman
05-29-17, 16:03
And if they have no intention and interest in doing that? When Irish, Germans, Italians, etc came in large numbers they came in hopes of making a new life, a life they could not have where they came from. They didn't ignore or lose their heritage, but they didn't come to simply re crate the county they come from. It would seem so far, the US has a fairly integrated Muslim population compared to many other countries, but that too may change. I'm not religious person but I will say the one thing the Irish, Germans, Italians, etc all had in common was they tended to have come from a judeo christian cultural under pinning. That may have been the one primary factor that allowed them all to sorta kinda get along and integrate.
One thing that was significantly different was that there weren't as many hand-outs to be gotten by those who immigrated here in the late 19th and early 20th Century. Being hungry will make you assimilate to some degree because you are forced to work to eat.
I would guess at this point you can control this one of two ways.
You can slow immigration to the point where you are very selective in who you allow to immigrate. Essentially shutting down the "refugee" option and refuse entry to them.
You can shut the system totally until we come up with an answer to assimilation. We've done that before and it has worked.
I'm not sure what to think about Britain's reaction to Manchester.
I would like to see them rise up and retake their government and their homeland.
One thing that was significantly different was that there weren't as many hand-outs to be gotten by those who immigrated here in the late 19th and early 20th Century. Being hungry will make you assimilate to some degree because you are forced to work to eat.
I would guess at this point you can control this one of two ways.
You can slow immigration to the point where you are very selective in who you allow to immigrate. Essentially shutting down the "refugee" option and refuse entry to them.
You can shut the system totally until we come up with an answer to assimilation. We've done that before and it has worked.
I'm not sure what to think about Britain's reaction to Manchester.
I would like to see them rise up and retake their government and their homeland.
I know this is perception only, but honest to God it feels like we are more upset and outraged than they are. Where's the outage? Flowers left at the scene, candlelight vigils or what ever nonsense is of no value here. Bury your dead, morn, then unleash the dogs of war like the hammer of Thor. No disrespect intended to UK members here but from my POV it just does not seem like this event woke anyone up over there. On another forum not as full of switched on types as this, and a similar comment I made got a response about the war zone we are in in the US (making reference to the 8 people killed recently) and I should mind my own f-ing biz and all that. Is the UK lost? Even my outreach to my Brit friends didn't give me much of a sense of it.
Seeing that tweet I posted back a page made my hair stand on end.
Averageman
05-29-17, 16:39
I think what we are seeing is a generational change in attitudes Britain isn't what is was in 1934 and it wont ever be again, politically they've slipped further and further toward socialism. If all you know is an ever softening system slowly moving toward a socialist progressive Utopia and you call it home, you'll defend it, well, at least verbally.
I had a friend who's Father used to visit from Sheffield ever year on vacation. He loved to visit, we would go shooting and he would remark about the changing firearms Laws in Britain. Well his kids didn't know the difference, they grew up without a Second Amendment or legal firearms being available, so really they didn't care.
Unfortunately he got cancer and was forced to really on a system of socialized medicine and well the system moved so slow that it killed him. Now his kids understand why socialized medicine sucks and why it wont work here in America.
They will defend what they know because it is what they know as being right. They will defend it until it comes around and kills them.
Sad but true, it's the nature of man,.
kinda starting to sound like the boston bomber situation !!!!
agencies knew and did nothing ! lives were lost
one has to remember to brits we are the bad horrid gun toting scary ones !!! that have uncontrolled crime wild west shootings all the time etc....
they are civilized multi cultural and all get along
that is how they view us for the most part
one has to remember to brits we are the bad horrid gun toting scary ones !!! that have uncontrolled crime wild west shootings all the time etc....
they are civilized multi cultural and all get along
that is how they view us for the most part
A sad, concise, but generally accurate assessment I'd say.
one has to remember to brits we are the bad horrid gun toting scary ones !!! that have uncontrolled crime wild west shootings all the time etc....
they are civilized multi cultural and all get along
that is how they view us for the most part
Spot on.
one has to remember to brits we are the bad horrid gun toting scary ones !!! that have uncontrolled crime wild west shootings all the time etc....
they are civilized multi cultural and all get along
that is how they view us for the most part
And THANK GOD we threw their damn tea in the harbor.
Moose-Knuckle
05-30-17, 04:40
they are civilized multi cultural and all get along
For some strange reason it just isn't working out like they had planned . . .
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4197/34854318081_ce34abf8d0_b.jpg
For some strange reason it just isn't working out like they had planned . . .
your just a racist islampaphobic ummm ummmmm ummm trans hating ummm ummm women hating uummmmmm uummm white privilege white racist
yeah thats what you are :)
see I wont the argument :) I love my safe space now to get someone to pay my $356,984.00 student loans for liberal arts I studied gay ants and how they relate to fair trade tea !
OK sarcasm off :)
reckon sadly its coming here next ! but that pic if real and no PS is priceless :) ahahahahahahah
Averageman
05-30-17, 08:58
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/29/state-handouts-student-loan-paid-for-manchester-bombers-terror-plot/
A combination of government benefits and low-interest loans meant to pay for further education were used to fund the terror plot of Manchester killer Salman Abedi, police believe.
Police are investigating the finances of university dropout turned Islamist killer Salman Abedi, and was in receipt of thousands of pounds of government money before the attack, reports the Daily Telegraph. Police sources told the paper the killer even got government handouts while he was abroad in Libya, where it is believed he was being trained in bomb making.
The report claims Abedi collected £7,000 from the UK government owned and run Student Loans Company in 2015 when commencing a course at Salford, which he dropped out of shortly after. Despite not continuing with studies, the Libyan heritage British passport holder received another £7,000 instalment of his student loan the following year.
They've figured out how to not only create terror, but to have their enemies pay for the bombs they build..
This might explain how some of our Anti-Fa folks are paying their way to all of these riots?
Averageman
05-30-17, 12:56
The Ruin of England. Mark Steyn;
https://www.steynonline.com/7858/the-ruin-of-england
The groupthink in our public discourse is so pervasive it goes as unnoticed as the air. For example, let's say a bunch of young girls are blown up at a pop concert. You have to say something about it. But what?
Sir Richard Leese, Leader of Manchester City Council, on what he called the "incident" (seriously) at Manchester Arena:
We will not allow terrorists who seek to sow fear and division to achieve their aims.
Likewise, Amber Rudd, the British Home Secretary, had no doubt about the intent of the attack:
Its intention was to sow fear - its intention is to divide.
Even on the Continent, Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission and would-be scourge of Brexit, was admirably on message:
Once again, terrorism has sought to instil fear where there should be joy, to sow division where young people and families should be coming together.
The London press weighed in:
Those who perpetrated this attack hope to sow division.
And the Canadian press:
To state the obvious: Terrorist attacks are meant to terrorize and sow division.
And the American press:
Isis and the other purveyors of terror are gradually succeeding in sowing division...
You'd be surprised how easy it is to sow division. But take it from the Scottish press:
It's very easy to sow division...
Yes, yes, but what do the experts say?
Paris (AFP) - By targeting children at a pop concert in Manchester, the Islamic State group aimed to cause maximum outrage and sow divisions by turning people against Muslims, experts say.
When death stalks the land, make no mistake: He may look like a grim reaper, but he's really a grim sower. An entire sowing bee of experts has so decreed. Indeed, in their warnings about sowing division, our betters are so non-divided that they give off the faintly creepy whiff of fellows all reading off the same cue card helpfully biked round to them by the Central Commissar ten minutes after the "incident" occurred.
A good read...
The Ruin of England. Mark Steyn;
https://www.steynonline.com/7858/the-ruin-of-england
The groupthink in our public discourse is so pervasive it goes as unnoticed as the air. For example, let's say a bunch of young girls are blown up at a pop concert. You have to say something about it. But what?
Sir Richard Leese, Leader of Manchester City Council, on what he called the "incident" (seriously) at Manchester Arena:
We will not allow terrorists who seek to sow fear and division to achieve their aims.
Likewise, Amber Rudd, the British Home Secretary, had no doubt about the intent of the attack:
Its intention was to sow fear its intention is to divide.
Even on the Continent, Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission and would-be scourge of Brexit, was admirably on message:
Once again, terrorism has sought to instil fear where there should be joy, to sow division where young people and families should be coming together.
The London press weighed in:
Those who perpetrated this attack hope to sow division.
And the Canadian press:
To state the obvious: Terrorist attacks are meant to terrorize and sow division.
And the American press:
Isis and the other purveyors of terror are gradually succeeding in sowing division...
You'd be surprised how easy it is to sow division. But take it from the Scottish press:
It's very easy to sow division...
Yes, yes, but what do the experts say?
Paris (AFP) - By targeting children at a pop concert in Manchester, the Islamic State group aimed to cause maximum outrage and sow divisions by turning people against Muslims, experts say.
When death stalks the land, make no mistake: He may look like a grim reaper, but he's really a grim sower. An entire sowing bee of experts has so decreed. Indeed, in their warnings about sowing division, our betters are so non-divided that they give off the faintly creepy whiff of fellows all reading off the same cue card helpfully biked round to them by the Central Commissar ten minutes after the "incident" occurred.
A good read...
If anyone suggests that there's no collusion within the media to sow (pun intended) propaganda, I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sell you. :rolleyes:
Averageman
05-30-17, 15:28
They're screwed
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05/30/teaching-terror-children-respect-killers/
A new teaching aid telling primary school children that terrorists kill people because they believe they are treated “unfairly” has been slammed by education campaigners.
Published just weeks before a suicide bomber attacked a concert in Manchester, killing 22 people including seven children, Talking About Terrorism recommends teachers “invite children to write a letter to a terrorist”.
The book, which contains forewords by NSPCC Chief Executive Peter Wanless and the director of the Jo Cox Foundation, describes terror incidents in which people launch indiscriminate attacks on members of the public as “a type of war”.
Terrorists kill people because they think they are being “treated unfairly and [are] not shown respect” according to the book, which goes on to give examples of “terrorists” it says were on the right side of history, including Nelson Mandela.
Lawrence, who campaigns to bring illegal immigrants living in camps in France into Britain, warns that the world is “witnessing huge political and cultural shifts — one of these is the rise of extremism”.
Stating that “values and beliefs are shaped from the youngest age”, the foreword asserts the need for a “fairer, kinder and more tolerant world”, with Lawrence writing: “Children and young people can and should be equipped with the confidence to stand up for these values.”
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