View Full Version : Are we in the era of $350-$550 stocks?
Is the market accepting the concept of an AR with a half to a third of the rifle's value is in the stock? Is this more of the Instagram fetishism that boosted sales of tricked out $2500 Glocks or are we seeing a benefit to impeccably machined and engineered buttstocks with poor to minimal cheekweld?
I just got a Ranier Arms email for the Fortis stock, priced at $325 (reg. price supposedly $400).
https://www.rainierarms.com/fortis-la-stock/?trk_msg=JVU8VLJJ0HR4V676UH2QSFSKAC&trk_contact=O53UKPMN8KRP8KQL1VI1GR9O34&trk_sid=6I1IONPRI5K4BLIUH4VF7KIJ5K&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Fortis+LA+Stock&utm_campaign=new-products-5-15-17&utm_content=New+Products
Also on the market are the Maxim Defense stocks ranging from $400 to $550
https://www.maximdefense.com/product-category/stocks/ar-pattern-stocks/
Strike Industries also just announced a PDW stock for a modest $250.
https://www.rainierarms.com/strike-industries-viper-pdw-stock-pre-order/?nosto=nosto-page-category2
Also the MVB CQB stock comes in at $350-$400
https://mvbindustries.com/product/arc-stock-multi-pos/
Is the market accepting the concept of an AR with a half to a third of the rifle's value is in the stock? Is this more of the Instagram fetishism that boosted sales of tricked out $2500 Glocks or are we seeing a benefit to impeccably machined and engineered buttstocks with poor to minimal cheekweld?
I just got a Ranier Arms email for the Fortis stock, priced at $325 (reg. price supposedly $400).
https://www.rainierarms.com/fortis-la-stock/?trk_msg=JVU8VLJJ0HR4V676UH2QSFSKAC&trk_contact=O53UKPMN8KRP8KQL1VI1GR9O34&trk_sid=6I1IONPRI5K4BLIUH4VF7KIJ5K&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Fortis+LA+Stock&utm_campaign=new-products-5-15-17&utm_content=New+Products
Also on the market are the Maxim Defense stocks ranging from $400 to $550
https://www.maximdefense.com/product-category/stocks/ar-pattern-stocks/
Strike Industries also just announced a PDW stock for a modest $250.
https://www.rainierarms.com/strike-industries-viper-pdw-stock-pre-order/?nosto=nosto-page-category2
Also the MVB CQB stock comes in at $350-$400
https://mvbindustries.com/product/arc-stock-multi-pos/
The range I go to here near FT Bragg NC has a lot of these type stocks on rifles I see, so I'm guessing so.
I had a long post going on how some people will spend a large sum for stocks for custom compeition guns, and how that was justified but that in the AR game something like that just doesn't seem to be worth it for the most part. So short answer? Yeah, probably. And this coming from a guy who generally looked at the PRS as overpriced, although freely admitted that it did a job that few other stocks could do as well. And I can also see a bit of the premium on some of the CQB stocks that replace the ass end of the rifle for the most compact package out there, but even the more expensive ones of those I think I was getting sticker shock at $300. But people will spend money on a lot of useless shit that does nothing for making it a better shooter. Let's be honest.
I mean, I remember scratching my head when I saw a guy put a Larue rail on a S&W Sport when it first came out going, "Why go cheap on the gun but high end on the rail?" I also ran into a guy recently at a gun club who was bragging about his $400 and change Delton and how great is was and so much better than that $800 Colt, and talking about how he ordered one of those Echo Trigger jobs, which I think are like $500, and then bitching in the same sentence about the rifle shooting low with his scope which was one of the cheap UTG thingys. People are ****ing stupid!!!!
The consumer market will drive production. If people are willing to pay $350-$450 for a stock, manufacturers will make them. Given the proliferation of various PDW style stocks available right now I would say the market has spoken.
The true test will be what happens in the long term. IE: Does it stand the test of time or is it just a passing fad that fades away when the "cool guy" status wears off? Leaving only the truly quality options out there for the few people who really need what the PDW stock has to offer.
For those who actually need what a PDW stock offers, the cheek weld is not a priority. Those people are looking for a concealable shoulder fired weapon, not a sniper rifle. I have fired tens of thousands of rounds downrange with an MP5 A3 stock which arguably has even less of a cheek weld than most of the PDW style stocks now making the rounds, can't say as I ever had an issue or even noticed the lack of cheek weld. As Pat Rogers used to say, Mission drives the gear train.
People pay $400+ for scope mounts and $300 for triggers. I don't see why overpriced stocks can't also gain a market.
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My ARs have a mixture of Magpul, M4 and 1 has a MFT minimalist. I don't see paying that much for an AR stock unless it's a PDW type. I may build one of those powers eventually. But even my SPR has a Magpul I can't see paying that much for a general use rifle stock, but if you want to it's your money.
Is the market accepting the concept of an AR with a half to a third of the rifle's value is in the stock? Is this more of the Instagram fetishism that boosted sales of tricked out $2500 Glocks or are we seeing a benefit to impeccably machined and engineered buttstocks with poor to minimal cheekweld?
I just got a Ranier Arms email for the Fortis stock, priced at $325 (reg. price supposedly $400).
https://www.rainierarms.com/fortis-la-stock/?trk_msg=JVU8VLJJ0HR4V676UH2QSFSKAC&trk_contact=O53UKPMN8KRP8KQL1VI1GR9O34&trk_sid=6I1IONPRI5K4BLIUH4VF7KIJ5K&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Fortis+LA+Stock&utm_campaign=new-products-5-15-17&utm_content=New+Products
Also on the market are the Maxim Defense stocks ranging from $400 to $550
https://www.maximdefense.com/product-category/stocks/ar-pattern-stocks/
Strike Industries also just announced a PDW stock for a modest $250.
https://www.rainierarms.com/strike-industries-viper-pdw-stock-pre-order/?nosto=nosto-page-category2
Also the MVB CQB stock comes in at $350-$400
https://mvbindustries.com/product/arc-stock-multi-pos/
Just put one of those stocks on a KAC SR-25 E2 APC - that'd feel like putting a $90 stock on your Colt Expanse. Problem solved. :cool:
AppalachianThunder
05-27-17, 00:42
LMFAO!
RobertTheTexan
05-27-17, 03:46
I
I mean, I remember scratching my head when I saw a guy put a Larue rail on a S&W Sport when it first came out going, "Why go cheap on the gun but high end on the rail?" I also ran into a guy recently at a gun club who was bragging about his $400 and change Delton and how great is was and so much better than that $800 Colt, and talking about how he ordered one of those Echo Trigger jobs, which I think are like $500, and then bitching in the same sentence about the rifle shooting low with his scope which was one of the cheap UTG thingys. People are ****ing stupid!!!!
Different strokes for different folks. Even when it's swimming upstream in a river called Stupid.
Personally, I haven't seen any real reason to have one. Any "upgrade" that requires me to replace my A5 buffer system and my LMT BCG's is NOT an upgrade IMO.
Besides the folks I respect run Magpul, Vltor, LMT's or BCM's.
Maybe they belong more on TOS than here?
Eurodriver
05-27-17, 05:37
The true test will be what happens in the long term. IE: Does it stand the test of time or is it just a passing fad that fades away when the "cool guy" status wears off? Leaving only the truly quality options out there for the few people who really need what the PDW stock has to offer.
Spoken like someone who has BTDT!
All anyone needs to do is go through the Post Pics of your AR thread on this forum to see what trends stick and which don't. I think the recent proliferation of these types of stocks is that neckbeards finally realizing the ATF isn't gonna raid your house at 2am if you get an SBR tax stamp. I don't think this will be something that becomes ubiquitous for ARs in general.
Mysteryman
05-27-17, 11:29
People pay $400+ for scope mounts and $300 for triggers. I don't see why overpriced stocks can't also gain a market.
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A low quality scope mount affects downrange performance. A good trigger also affects downrange performance. A stock is a stock, if it's solid it will do the job. But as you said, there are other over priced parts/accessories so there's no reason over priced stocks can't have a place.
MM
Not my cup of tea. I'll take my Magpul stock and a case of ammo for ~$350.
A low quality scope mount affects downrange performance. A good trigger also affects downrange performance. A stock is a stock, if it's solid it will do the job. But as you said, there are other over priced parts/accessories so there's no reason over priced stocks can't have a place.
MM
Yeah, sure, low quality scope mounts do affect performance. There are quality scope mounts for less than $400.
A good trigger does not change the guns mechanical accuracy rather helps the shooter achieve accuracy.
99% of shooters are probably better served spending the $1200 he could have in trigger, scope mount, and stock and putting it toward ammo and training. ;)
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Different strokes for different folks. Even when it's swimming upstream in a river called Stupid.
Personally, I haven't seen any real reason to have one. Any "upgrade" that requires me to replace my A5 buffer system and my LMT BCG's is NOT an upgrade IMO.
Besides the folks I respect run Magpul, Vltor, LMT's or BCM's.
Maybe they belong more on TOS than here?
The PDW stocks as was pointed out by Joe have a purpose. And If I was going as short as possible on an SBR I'd legit be interested. Anything other than an SBR and I kind of think you're dealing with a confused build or possible brain damage. But then, if you are going as short as possible you also are going to likely be taking a hit in the over all reliability to some degree to get to that short package. For a 16 inch carbine, or what have you, there is really no valid reason I can come up with to slap a PDW stock on there other than, "Because it makes my dick hard." Which if it is because you can, I respect. And I think most here don't care if you have stuff that is for no other reason than you can. We all get caught up in practical usage and fighting tools, not everything needs to be that. Now, guy rolls up with a lower with a PDW stock and 24 bull barrel and declares it to be the greatest CQC instrument ever I will be first in line to kick him in the nads.
That said, if you start pushing $300 or more stocks that interface like your general Magpul, BCM, B5 systems, ect stock and it does nothing special I reserve the right to ask if you are smoking high grade crack unless you can show that it does something that none of the above mentioned stocks can do at a third or even less of the price. I'll even allow that proper gun fit, to include the stock, is important to shooting well. Though, as has already been stated, a lot of shooters would probably benefit from shooting more and more training than chasing the latest gear. I can say both, I could stand to shoot more than I do, and as far as not chasing gear, sticking with what I have and is vetted and known inside and out to me has resulted in me reliably kicking the ass of the guys who are members of the gun of month club and who have to chase the latest and greatest accessories because they try to win by throwing money at the game and not building skill.
All of that said, free market, if companies can make bank on it, what the hell. Maybe I can pick up the cast off of the guys buying the latest and greatest on the cheap.
NoveskeFan
05-27-17, 15:13
I've made some purchases in the past that I now slap my forehead over. I do believe that some of these stocks serve the purpose of building the shortest possible PDW type AR. While these stocks are not for me, I do have a couple boat anchors (Magpul UBR's) that I love :).
There will be a market for these stocks for sure. It doesn't take long to see people like on TOS drooling over the newest, latest, "coolest" looking accessory, and then starting an entire new build just to be able to use said accessory. There is nothing wrong with that, everyone is free to do what they want with their money. This can be an expensive hobby, and with that you'll have a lot of guys that throw a lot of money into it.
ETA: I personally wouldn't spend the money on it unless I need it. I try to not buy anything new until what I have is already truly dated, or not performing any more. But there is a lot of guys that get more fun out of putting together cool looking guns and showing them off instead of shooting them.
Most expensive I use is a LMT DMR. I like it, but it was free through my job. Not sure id drop the coin on it myself. My personal builds have had a variety, but I've settled on the EMOD when combined with the A5 System, B5 Enhanced SOPMOD, LaRue RAT with cleaning rods and a few CTR/STR that came with rifles (mostly Noveske). I've used most of the big names of all price ranges and that's my final choices.
That DMR is super nice though...I wouldn't mind another one for my MK12, Noveske custom 20" or a LaRue OBR...
I can't believe this is even a question when we saw what happened with KAC and the triple tap. There is a market for high end AR products, just like there is a market for high end cars, watches, and most other collectables.
It is en vogue to trash and complain about products to show how cool posters are, not as much prevalent on this site as on some others, but it is still part of the internet.
I know Paul, the head of Fortis, if he saw a market for it, I congratulate him. While I don't have the disposable income to purchase one, if sent one I would use it and enjoy the wailing and gnashing of teeth that ensued on the internet when I spoke about it or posted pictures.
There's a triple top on eBay right now with an asking price of $850
I can't believe this is even a question when we saw what happened with KAC and the triple tap. There is a market for high end AR products, just like there is a market for high end cars, watches, and most other collectables.
It is en vogue to trash and complain about products to show how cool posters are, not as much prevalent on this site as on some others, but it is still part of the internet.
I know Paul, the head of Fortis, if he saw a market for it, I congratulate him. While I don't have the disposable income to purchase one, if sent one I would use it and enjoy the wailing and gnashing of teeth that ensued on the internet when I spoke about it or posted pictures.
Mysteryman
05-28-17, 00:15
Yeah, sure, low quality scope mounts do affect performance. There are quality scope mounts for less than $400.
A good trigger does not change the guns mechanical accuracy rather helps the shooter achieve accuracy.
99% of shooters are probably better served spending the $1200 he could have in trigger, scope mount, and stock and putting it toward ammo and training. ;)
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I absolutely agree!! My point was that spending foolishly on a trigger or mount at least has some logic to it from the performance aspect.
MM
As others have said, the market dictates and if people are buying, there you go. Since I got my first Vltor stock around 4-5 years ago, I have a hard time buying anything else. The only other stock I have tried and kept is the B5 Bravo which is the polar opposite of the stocks in the OP :)
IDK, I don't have any $350-500 stocks on my AR15s, but if it fills a need or demand, who cares?
Don't want one, don't buy one.
Spend less time complaining about the other guys on your square range and more time on your target. Trust me, it'll do more for you personally.
I don't think anybody is complaining about other guys' gear.
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The PDW stocks as was pointed out by Joe have a purpose. And If I was going as short as possible on an SBR I'd legit be interested. Anything other than an SBR and I kind of think you're dealing with a confused build or possible brain damage. But then, if you are going as short as possible you also are going to likely be taking a hit in the over all reliability to some degree to get to that short package. For a 16 inch carbine, or what have you, there is really no valid reason I can come up with to slap a PDW stock on there other than, "Because it makes my dick hard." Which if it is because you can, I respect. And I think most here don't care if you have stuff that is for no other reason than you can. We all get caught up in practical usage and fighting tools, not everything needs to be that. Now, guy rolls up with a lower with a PDW stock and 24 bull barrel and declares it to be the greatest CQC instrument ever I will be first in line to kick him in the nads.
That said, if you start pushing $300 or more stocks that interface like your general Magpul, BCM, B5 systems, ect stock and it does nothing special I reserve the right to ask if you are smoking high grade crack unless you can show that it does something that none of the above mentioned stocks can do at a third or even less of the price. I'll even allow that proper gun fit, to include the stock, is important to shooting well. Though, as has already been stated, a lot of shooters would probably benefit from shooting more and more training than chasing the latest gear. I can say both, I could stand to shoot more than I do, and as far as not chasing gear, sticking with what I have and is vetted and known inside and out to me has resulted in me reliably kicking the ass of the guys who are members of the gun of month club and who have to chase the latest and greatest accessories because they try to win by throwing money at the game and not building skill.
All of that said, free market, if companies can make bank on it, what the hell. Maybe I can pick up the cast off of the guys buying the latest and greatest on the cheap.
This pretty much covers it. They fill a niche roll for a short as possible sbr/pdw.
To be clear, it wasn't my intent to shit on someone's purchases, I'm just wondering if there's a reason these stocks are suddenly so popular.
It's like when railed handguards started coming out. I was used to just bolting a light to the plastic handguards, and spending $100+ on a metal rail that looked uncomfortable and potentially delicate seemed strange to me.
Are you guys saying my Magpul MOE stocks arent the "in" thing to have on a gun anymore?
:cray::cray::cray::cray::cray:
I don't see an issue so long as it serves a purpose and does what the user needs it to do. Most of my rifles sport $75 and under stocks.. but I do have one rifle (18" rifle gas MK12 inspired SPR) that has right at $600 in the stock alone. (Gen 1 UBR, Gen 3 Battleline S.A.P.R. , Enhanced buttpad, Accushot strike plate/monopod mount & monopod, and IWC centerline QD mount). I have it exactly where I want it, so the dollar amount doesn't bother me. I personally wouldn't spend $400+ for a basic stock machined out of aluminum though, as most polymer stocks will do the same thing for less money and weight, but there's obviously a market for it. You can't blame companies for making products they know they can sell.
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