View Full Version : Some low end manufacturers getting desperate
I started managing a LGS in October after being laid off from my previous job in August. It's definitely not my dream job, but it's getting me by until I find something else. Plus it can be entertaining at times.
We all know that the AR market has been flooded with low end rifles, but apparently the manufacturers of these "fine" weapons are really starting to feel the crunch. We've had four manufacturers call us over the past two weeks with offers to sell to us direct. I've spoken with sales reps over the phone from Stag, Aero Precision, and Anderson. The owner spoke to the fourth, and I can't remember what company it was.
These companies must be hurting if they're willing to cut out and piss off their distributors. Personally I think we're seeing a course correction in the market that's been long overdue.
I was at my Class 3 dealer the other day, updating my trust and doing prints and photos, he has the largest display of Daniel Defense I have seen, carries every make of suppressor, has two Colt Bulldogs on display: so needless to say it's a serious store. Guy walked in with his buddies and asked if they carried DPMS. :suicide::
This was after having an indept conversation about the DD and similar level of guns actually selling in our area and selling well. I was surprised at how well quality rifles are selling. I think the word is out and people that know will but quality. And people that don't know more than likely have a fri me that knows what quality is.
DPMS has a $75 rebate on some of their rifles. You can get into one of their turds for $350 after the rebate.
I think most companies overproduced during the elections and now they're sitting on piles of unsold rifles. I guess you could stash a few away for speculation purposes, but you might not be able to unload them for a long time.
I started managing a LGS in October after being laid off from my previous job in August. It's definitely not my dream job, but it's getting me by until I find something else. Plus it can be entertaining at times.
We all know that the AR market has been flooded with low end rifles, but apparently the manufacturers of these "fine" weapons are really starting to feel the crunch. We've had four manufacturers call us over the past two weeks with offers to sell to us direct. I've spoken with sales reps over the phone from Stag, Aero Precision, and Anderson. The owner spoke to the fourth, and I can't remember what company it was.
These companies must be hurting if they're willing to cut out and piss off their distributors. Personally I think we're seeing a course correction in the market that's been long overdue.
I don't know about the others, but I've been buying Aero direct for years. I prefer to deal direct if possible anyway.
I think most companies overproduced during the elections and now they're sitting on piles of unsold rifles. I guess you could stash a few away for speculation purposes, but you might not be able to unload them for a long time.
This is probably a big part of it for many manufacturers. Bills need to get paid and they're sitting on back-stock left over from panic preparation. I don't necessarily fault them. We didn't know what would happen in November. Either did they. Yes, had Killiary won, the mfgs would have been moving product at a serious pace. And they'd have likely made out pretty well in the short run. But, had the she-devil won, they may have been hurting just as bad as the consumer in the long run.
So, for the industry, it was almost a "6 in 1, half-dozen in the other" scenario. Either way they were likely going to take a hit at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if other mfgs have been doing the same. Or will do the same in the near future. The market is definitely going to experience some "calibration".
I don't know about the others, but I've been buying Aero direct for years. I prefer to deal direct if possible anyway.
Companies like Daniel Defense and BCM sell direct too, but always at MSRP. Aero Precision is offering our store pricing below what our distributors normally charge us for the same item.
Companies like Daniel Defense and BCM sell direct too, but always at MSRP. Aero Precision is offering our store pricing below what our distributors normally charge us for the same item.
The shop I manage has had a dealer account with Aero Precision and Stag Arms for years and we aren't what I would call a large gun shop by any means. We don't much with Stag but have been happy with Aero for the most part.
We are also set up with Daniel Defense but they stopped selling dealer direct and went to distributor only a few years back when demand for ARs really took off. Before Sandy Hook we were able to order custom rifles directly from DD for our customers (that was before my time). I was told at one point by someone at DD that they plan to eventually re-open direct sales to dealers but I have no idea if it's still in the cards.
As AKDoug said, as much as we like some of our distributors we do try to buy direct from manufacturers when/if we can.
I was going to mention the DD thing. I bought my original DDM4V7 from a DD dealer that worked out of his house.
I've always been able to guy direct from Aero cheaper than from distributors as long my volume was more than a couple at a time. Aero has tiered pricing, so volume will get you lower pricing.
Guns are just a side thing for our business anyway. We are primarily a hardware store, and have a tool rental division. Distributors have been going by the wayside as long as I've been in business. With the advent of computer inventory and sales systems, couple with easy shipping providers, manufacturers in the hardware business have been selling direct for many years now.
If you are a manufacturer and are set up with a good shipping department and sales staff, there is no reason to even have a distributor setup.
I was talking to one of the managers at sportsman's warehouse and he told me a big shipment of ammo from remington just showed up that they didn't order. He said they are getting bombarded with companies trying to offload their stock. Guess they were holding back waiting to make a mint when Trump won.
I know I stocked up and now I'm sitting on excess that I only bought because I was worried I wouldn't have the chance if she got in. I'd break even at best if I could unload anything. I plan just to sit back and keep every thing because one day it'll all work out.
I was talking to one of the managers at sportsman's warehouse and he told me a big shipment of ammo from remington just showed up that they didn't order. He said they are getting bombarded with companies trying to offload their stock. Guess they were holding back waiting to make a mint when Trump won.
I know I stocked up and now I'm sitting on excess that I only bought because I was worried I wouldn't have the chance if she got in. I'd break even at best if I could unload anything. I plan just to sit back and keep every thing because one day it'll all work out.
Yes, yes it will. It's like a pendulum: right now it's swung in our direction, but won't stay that way forever.
Outlander Systems
05-27-17, 08:40
I went to pick up a charging handle at a local shop yesterday and they're running a sale on Aero and Anderson uppers and lowers.
The prices were absolutely jaw dropping.
Straight Shooter
05-27-17, 08:43
Companies like Daniel Defense and BCM sell direct too, but always at MSRP. Aero Precision is offering our store pricing below what our distributors normally charge us for the same item.
An aside, if I may- but do you classify Aero as low tier? I don't myself. No biggie, errbody don't get bent over it, just asking.
And I agree with 100% about the overdue course correction.
BrigandTwoFour
05-27-17, 09:39
An aside, if I may- but do you classify Aero as low tier? I don't myself. No biggie, errbody don't get bent over it, just asking.
And I agree with 100% about the overdue course correction.
I agree with you. I always considered Aero a decent baseline to work from.
And I don't even own anything Aero (except for a .308 M5 stripped upper I haven't used for anything)
Yes, yes it will. It's like a pendulum: right now it's swung in our direction, but won't stay that way forever.
Particularly since no one has any interest in rolling back the onerous legislation already on the books.
Outlander Systems
05-27-17, 11:14
I have a bunch of Aero lowers with someone else's rollmark on them and they're all just peachy keen.
I agree with you. I always considered Aero a decent baseline to work from.
And I don't even own anything Aero (except for a .308 M5 stripped upper I haven't used for anything)
Like many of the manufacturers, I gambled that Hillary would win and probably will lose a couple grand over the whole deal. Nothing too bad, just lowers, BCG's and mags, but the prices and interest dropped so fast after the election that I am "stuck" with them. Aero stripped lowers are about $40 less right now then July '16 prices. No meat left on the bone, so I just sell them at a loss (don't call me, I won't ship at these low prices). I'm doing alright on mags at this point, but time will tell. Never gamble more than you can afford to lose. I've never been more happy to lose at something, though. Glad HRC didn't win.
Outlander Systems
05-27-17, 12:21
Just throwing some perspective out there.
Given the lull in the storm, perhaps taking advantage of the lack of scarcity is a prudent course of action.
Maybe, it depends on whether you're trying to get what you wabt/need or trying to make profit. I'd sale one or two but high end rifles are not bringing premiums, so I'll keep them and shoot them!
Just throwing some perspective out there.
Given the lull in the storm, perhaps taking advantage of the lack of scarcity is a prudent course of action.
This really should go without saying. Unfortunately, many wait around until the threat of panic sets in. I think we've all been in that position at one point or another. I loaded up just like everyone else before the election. But, not with the intent of flipping ammo and components. I could have sold if things got tight, but it was all stuff that I planned on keeping.
I'm doing the same now. Although, it's less about need and more about long term security and padding the stash. It's stuff I could sell. But, more than anything, it's insurance against feeling like I need to rush out and buy a bunch of ammo, mags, and components the next time a threat surfaces.
SomeOtherGuy
05-27-17, 13:05
An aside, if I may- but do you classify Aero as low tier? I don't myself. No biggie, errbody don't get bent over it, just asking.
And I agree with 100% about the overdue course correction.
Ditto on Aero Precision. I don't know how their complete rifles are, but their receivers seem well made.
I'm seeing "huh?" prices in some of the sale emails, mostly on off-brands I've never heard of, plus DPMS. Seeing complete AR rifles priced at $400 or less, at or below what a sporter-Saiga was selling for 8 years ago. I'm curious how many corners it's possible to cut to reach these prices - but not curious enough to buy one.
Outlander Systems
05-27-17, 13:54
Agreed.
Sadly, most folks will sit on their asses until 2020 and then we'll be back at square one.
Take the 3.5 years you have left, and set yourself up to weather any foreseeable storms.
This really should go without saying. Unfortunately, many wait around until the threat of panic sets in. I think we've all been in that position at one point or another. I loaded up just like everyone else before the election. But, not with the intent of flipping ammo and components. I could have sold if things got tight, but it was all stuff that I planned on keeping.
I'm doing the same now. Although, it's less about need and more about long term security and padding the stash. It's stuff I could sell. But, more than anything, it's insurance against feeling like I need to rush out and buy a bunch of ammo, mags, and components the next time a threat surfaces.
BrigandTwoFour
05-27-17, 15:11
Agreed.
Sadly, most folks will sit on their asses until 2020 and then we'll be back at square one.
Take the 3.5 years you have left, and set yourself up to weather any foreseeable storms.
*Zombie voice*
Maaaaaaagggsssss
Ditto on Aero Precision. I don't know how their complete rifles are, but their receivers seem well made.
I'm seeing "huh?" prices in some of the sale emails, mostly on off-brands I've never heard of, plus DPMS. Seeing complete AR rifles priced at $400 or less, at or below what a sporter-Saiga was selling for 8 years ago. I'm curious how many corners it's possible to cut to reach these prices - but not curious enough to buy one.
I got an email from LWRC...selling BCM mod 4 gunfighter CH for $32.
Seemed decent for good gear.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wonder if these "low end" companies will learn the lesson that a certain "high end" company keeps failing to learn.
Straight Shooter
05-27-17, 19:51
Agreed.
Sadly, most folks will sit on their asses until 2020 and then we'll be back at square one.
Take the 3.5 years you have left, and set yourself up to weather any foreseeable storms.
DANG. Its like you've been hearing me talk- Im getting EVERYTHING I can afford, as I can afford it, as SOON as I can. I am absolutely stocking for a return to a another Sandy Hook-like time. People freakin think we are good now from now on I reckon.
As a person whose lived thru MANY ups & downs...Im here to tell you the fat lady AINT sung yet.
DANG. Its like you've been hearing me talk- Im getting EVERYTHING I can afford, as I can afford it, as SOON as I can. I am absolutely stocking for a return to a another Sandy Hook-like time. People freakin think we are good now from now on I reckon.
As a person whose lived thru MANY ups & downs...Im here to tell you the fat lady AINT sung yet.
All the advice on stocking up now at great prices is advice that should be heeded. I built three lowers, and had a couple of Colt BCG's set aside just in case Hitlery won. Now they're complete AR's. They're not eating anything in the safe, and are set aside for a rainy day what will come along sooner than later.
*Zombie voice*
Maaaaaaagggsssss
Another bit of great advice too. As stated earlier, the pendulum will swing again!
Outrageous deals I've seen:
Anderson lowers for $29.99
Free Anderson Lower and Upper when you buy a Geissele SSA at full price.
I know a guy who started a suppressor company who voted for HRC because he wanted demand and supply to increase his profit margins. I don't think that was the issue for most places, but it doesn't change there are a lot of items built up and ready to sell which aren't moving off the shelves. All of the manufacturers and suppliers are wanting to get paid, so blow outs are common right now, and going out of business sales are in progress without the dealers making it known they are closing.
Great news for some people, and terrible news for others.
I know a guy who started a suppressor company who voted for HRC because he wanted demand and supply to increase his profit margins. I don't think that was the issue for most places, but it doesn't change there are a lot of items built up and ready to sell which aren't moving off the shelves. All of the manufacturers and suppliers are wanting to get paid, so blow outs are common right now, and going out of business sales are in progress without the dealers making it known they are closing.
Great news for some people, and terrible news for others.
Would the forum rules allow naming this individual/company. Being an Industry Pro, I'd imagine the accusations of hearsay would be less of an issue. That's absolute bs that a company owner would pull that garbage. The community has a right to know such things. Regardless of if he's named here, I hope he's the first suppressor business to go under and lose it all.
Agreed.
Sadly, most folks will sit on their asses until 2020 and then we'll be back at square one.
Take the 3.5 years you have left, and set yourself up to weather any foreseeable storms.
Amen brother! I'd add that, while we've got it good, let's push the needle further in our favor. We don't know when the next opportunity will come around where there's such a friendly climate to 2A rights. This "victory" we've all felt is completely wasted if we sit back and celebrate. Let's not squander it.
Like many of the manufacturers, I gambled that Hillary would win and probably will lose a couple grand over the whole deal. Nothing too bad, just lowers, BCG's and mags, but the prices and interest dropped so fast after the election that I am "stuck" with them. Aero stripped lowers are about $40 less right now then July '16 prices. No meat left on the bone, so I just sell them at a loss (don't call me, I won't ship at these low prices). I'm doing alright on mags at this point, but time will tell. Never gamble more than you can afford to lose. I've never been more happy to lose at something, though. Glad HRC didn't win.
You win some, you lose you, and sometimes losing is winning. In this case I think while many of us may have had a stash that we looked at and went, that might be a fast cash deposit if dems won, and we were pleased to look at it as just padding to the stash in the end.
I personally stocked up on mags and some lowers and other odds and ends prior to the election. I also purposely only bought things that while they might have been sold or traded off should things have gotten crazy I also had an interest in either keeping or at least playing with. So honestly the election didn't cause me to really lose anything. If anything I've been buying up things here and there that I want to add, my focus isn't on AR mags and parts as heavily, but I still keep an eye out for deals on things I either want or need.
I do think that there will be a fair number of smaller, possibly even larger, business that end up going under due to their sells structure being driven by the idea of a panic and being just another brand on the market in a market flooded with guns.... if they aren't a name that has people gravitating towards due to quality or innovation I think things might be getting really hard for them.
What I would be interested in seeing is the ones who were trying to save up for an AR and had initially focused on what was a budget AR prior to teh election in the $700 range now seeing something like a Colt in that range if they grab the now budget rifle in the $400-500 range and save the $200 or spend the same or little more for the Colt. I know I considering unloading some odd parts guns that I have to replace with factory 6920s and 6720s.
It's only going to get worse, which is good for a buyer.
Wait until the fall, after the summer slowdown, then we'll see desperation.
Straight Shooter
05-28-17, 07:21
It's only going to get worse, which is good for a buyer.
Wait until the fall, after the summer slowdown, then we'll see desperation.
Im thinkin Black Friday gonna be SWEET this year.
I decided that I'm going to take advantage of the glut. I'm going to do my part to Make America Great Again by buying an AR lower receiver every other month while Trump is in office. Ordered two this month (an Anderson for $30 and a Noveske), plan to order another in July. Figure I can budget $30-50/mo and have quite the collection by 2024 if Trump goes the whole way. Also still plan to continue buying at least one AR mag every time I go to a gun show. It's kind of like the stock market.... when the bottom drops out, you buy more while everything is on sale.
Outlander Systems
05-28-17, 07:55
I'd really be excited if ammo started trending back down to historic norms.
Im thinkin Black Friday gonna be SWEET this year.
I've been saying that for months now. I really think, unless something happens to change things, we are going to see some crazy sales.
I've been saying that for months now. I really think, unless something happens to change things, we are going to see some crazy sales.
And I think it would have to be something monumental (IMO) for there to be Federal movement on gun control (i.e. Something to change things) as being solidly Pro-2A got our current President into office.
So I think we'll see lots of the gun industry 'fat' get pushed out and Manufacturers who want to stay in business will need to remain innovative and responsive to keep selling stuff.
Sure, there will continue to be different levels of gear / weapons - but this kind of thing (PDW stocks, etc) is part of the required innovation that some will need to stay in business. I personally have no real need for one, although I've contemplated one on an SBR, but the detractors and price of admission made it a pass for me.
IndianaBoy
05-28-17, 11:31
I'd really be excited if ammo started trending back down to historic norms.
$225 per k and I would buy a BUNCH. Although the growth of the shooting sports and new black rifle shooters is keeping ammo demand healthy. I still think things are trending down from the scarcity and high metal prices of a few years ago.
IndianaBoy
05-28-17, 11:53
Just throwing some perspective out there.
Given the lull in the storm, perhaps taking advantage of the lack of scarcity is a prudent course of action.
I've stuck a few spare barrels and a few complete bolt carrier groups in the back of a safe. I'm probably going to snag an extra lower or two. As cheap as they are now.... why not.
If I never build them, my kids can.
I can understand how a lot of people would have gone for a low end rifle with the Hillary scare. I followed my heart and grabbed a DD!
The LGS I frequent has literally boxes of overstock long guns (mostly AR's) piling up at rock bottom prices. This is great for all of us, at least in the next 4yrs if nothing happens. Most manufacturer's and dealers are hurting so prices are just going to stay low or go even lower.
I decided that I'm going to take advantage of the glut. I'm going to do my part to Make America Great Again by buying an AR lower receiver every other month while Trump is in office. Ordered two this month (an Anderson for $30 and a Noveske), plan to order another in July. Figure I can budget $30-50/mo and have quite the collection by 2024 if Trump goes the whole way. Also still plan to continue buying at least one AR mag every time I go to a gun show. It's kind of like the stock market.... when the bottom drops out, you buy more while everything is on sale.
Great plan. I might adopt the same idea while the getting is good.
Straight Shooter
05-29-17, 06:37
I think if we get some sbr/suppressor laws removed..that'll be a shot in the arm for the industry.
Right now, Im not even remotely interested in registering one damn thing with Uncle Sugar. No paperwork?
401K LOAN HERE I COME.
The LGS I frequent has literally boxes of overstock long guns (mostly AR's) piling up at rock bottom prices. This is great for all of us, at least in the next 4yrs if nothing happens. Most manufacturer's and dealers are hurting so prices are just going to stay low or go even lower.
Great plan. I might adopt the same idea while the getting is good.
One side effect is that functional if unimpressive used franken guns (generic lowers/parts) can be had for $250-350 used locally from a friend's store.
One man's custom build is just another's commodity generic/frankengun unless the lower, barrel, BCG, trigger, and rail are clearly identifiable top tier mfgs.
Eurodriver
05-29-17, 09:00
Let's not forget the laws of economics and that there is an equilibrium. Eventually the lower demand manufacturers (don't confuse that with "low tier") will drop out of the market and supply will drop - thereby increasing prices.
I am definitely hoping for $350 BCM uppers and free BCGs again though. :)
Let's not forget the laws of economics and that there is an equilibrium. Eventually the lower demand manufacturers (don't confuse that with "low tier") will drop out of the market and supply will drop - thereby increasing prices.
I am definitely hoping for $350 BCM uppers and free BCGs again though. :)
Interested in your ideas on lower demand manufacturers versus lower tier.
Not arguing your basic premise - if supply drops more rapidly than demand, prices should increase across the board. Just wondering about your ideas on lower demand manufacturers, specifically who they are, and how significant their exit would be in terms of overall supply.
Fun fact WM C Anderson, Inc., dba Anderson Arms made 300,390 rifles in 2015. That would include lowers they made and serial numbered, that is a bunch.
Eurodriver
05-29-17, 19:33
Not quite sure I follow exactly, but I'll try.
Guys like DD, BCM, and Noveske are going to struggle for market share. They may not go out, but prices will drop initially, marketing will slow down, and R&D will cease. From there? Who knows. It will be even worse for the "mid tier" guys as their prices don't have much lower to go from where they have been. Instead of rock bottom prices at the top tier guys you will just see production lines slow down. Noveske will never sell an upper for $350 because they will have a tough time justifying it in the future for $899.
On the other hand, Windham/Bushmaster/DPMS are not going to have issues staying in business and will struggle initially but adapt well. They either have owners that can buoy them up or brand recognition that will keep folks buying their stuff. Lots of people think M4C represents all carbine buyers - in reality it isn't even a market segment worth mentioning to the big makers. If it was, said manufacturers would not STILL be making 1:9 twist barrels without staking anything important.
Brands like DPMS and DD aren't really comparable products. Forum goers they are, but they are marketed totally differently to totally separate demographics. I don't see DPMS throwing up videos of ex Delta operators throwing their rifles from helicopters. So I don't think a slow in the market will affect each equally. Windham can slow supply and sell rifles for $499 but that isn't going to affect BCM. Same the other way around.
As said previously, the big hit is going to be on the mid tier guys who have already been pricing things at rock bottom. Once the big hitters lower their prices (and they will) they will need some significant plays to stay relevant. Brownells, Springfield Armory, Savage - all these new dudes making ARs will be interesting to watch.
Kind of where I thought you were going with the mid-tier.
The one thing that I would 'argue' is that based on current (2015) market share manufacturers like Noveske and KAC will not need to compete on price as much as other manufacturers will find themselves doing. They will still sell their 1,500 to 2,000 rifles a year.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/undefined/afmer-2015-final/download
Anderson makes a lot, but their dealers practically give them away. Standard stuff I'm sure is ok, but I'm one who isn't going to try it at the price point. $29 Stripped Lowers is less than many manufactuers pay for a raw forging. The 'lubeless' stuff just sounds like yet another snake oil.
Everyone who doesn't have a /gov contract, from dealers, to manufacturers, who floats any debt at all, is desperate as shit and going broke.
Everyone who doesn't have a /gov contract, from dealers, to manufacturers, who floats any debt at all, is desperate as shit and going broke.
Not sure how 40% of sales helps:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2012/12/19/seven-facts-about-the-u-s-gun-industry/
I can recall a Glock annual prior to M&P and other pistols being picked up by police agencies stating 20% of Glock sales were .gov versus 80% to private citizens.
Doc Safari
05-30-17, 09:06
I agree that the best part of this is that some of the low-tier manufacturers will end up gone. There is always a market for quality, even if times get lean. I don't see Colt, BCM, or DD going out of business, but you may see an industry shake-up.
I think maximizing the number of firearms owners with skin in the game isn't a bad idea.
I agree that the best part of this is that some of the low-tier manufacturers will end up gone. There is always a market for quality, even if times get lean. I don't see Colt, BCM, or DD going out of business, but you may see an industry shake-up.
There is indeed always a market for quality, but tough times call for astute management.
Colt's track record under such conditions is less than stellar.
muzzlebraker453
05-30-17, 12:38
well demand and supply is a "Female Dog" when they are more low companies coming in and customers start settling for inferior quality, at some point it is going to affect the hot shots. taking out the distributor is a temporary solution not permanent.
muzzlebraker453
05-30-17, 12:45
There is indeed always a market for quality, but tough times call for astute management.
Colt's track record under such conditions is less than stellar.
i totally agree with you, major companies will probably be making inferior quality firearms to achieve a low production cost.
PattonWasRight
05-30-17, 15:04
The Hillary thing was absolutely real.
At my retail gig we had a line of guys in front of the AR section making 'buy' decisions with just a few questions in just a few minutes. Most did not already have an AR.
We were out of stock every 2-3 days, and this was at a national chain sporting goods store.
All these companies believed and many of us believed it was Hillary all the way ... they're swamped with inventory and I suspect those of us who were going to get more AR rifles / stuff, already have.
I'll still keep my eyes open for quality BCGs, but that's about it.
Among the current MFRs, it's going to be a contest of who can bleed the longest.
And sometimes that doesn't favor the big guys.
muzzlebraker453
05-30-17, 17:56
if this goes on we will have to start singing and marching too.
I can understand how a lot of people would have gone for a low end rifle with the Hillary scare. I followed my heart and grabbed a DD!
Make sure to check the serial number on that DD to see if it's involved in their recall...unless you were considering trying out a binary trigger :)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?197019-DD-ISSUES-A-SAFETY-NOTIFICATION-ON-CERTAIN-DISCONNECTORS&p=2498722#post2498722
An aside, if I may- but do you classify Aero as low tier? I don't myself. No biggie, errbody don't get bent over it, just asking.
And I agree with 100% about the overdue course correction.
I just finished my 300 BO build using Aero upper and lower. Absolutely perfect for my use. Im not an LEO or operator but i would trust my Aero or Stag to defend my family & property if the need be.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
An aside, if I may- but do you classify Aero as low tier? I don't myself. No biggie, errbody don't get bent over it, just asking.
And I agree with 100% about the overdue course correction.
I just finished my 300 BO build using Aero upper and lower. Absolutely perfect for my use. Im not an LEO or operator but i would trust my Aero or Stag to defend my family & property if the need be.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Everything I've read, the consensus is that their receivers are good for building...their complete rifles have had some issues.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Who is selling Anderson lowers for that?
Who is selling Anderson lowers for that?
Best I've seen is just under $40. At that price, I'm seriously considering ordering several.
NothingClever
06-05-17, 12:28
I think most companies overproduced during the elections and now they're sitting on piles of unsold rifles. I guess you could stash a few away for speculation purposes, but you might not be able to unload them for a long time.
Yup. If people are smart they are buying cheap and stacking deep. I am. Or was until I found night vision. Now I'm broke.
I agree that the best part of this is that some of the low-tier manufacturers will end up gone. There is always a market for quality, even if times get lean. I don't see Colt, BCM, or DD going out of business, but you may see an industry shake-up.
Colt is constantly going out if business and or broke lol.
Everyone who doesn't have a /gov contract, from dealers, to manufacturers, who floats any debt at all, is desperate as shit and going broke.
Yeah it doesn't look good if you're in that position.
titsonritz
06-05-17, 12:37
Who is selling Anderson lowers for that?
Best I've seen is just under $40. At that price, I'm seriously considering ordering several.
$35 from Brownells
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx
$37.5 from Classic Firearms
https://www.classicfirearms.com/anderson-ar-lower
$36 from Fat Boy Tactical
http://www.fatboytactical.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=411
Those prices are really cheap -- will the average owner be able to tell the difference between one of these "cost effective" lowers and one of the more expensive ones? I'm really tempted to stock up
thespyhunter
06-05-17, 13:12
$35 from Brownells
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-prod75094.aspx
$37.5 from Classic Firearms
https://www.classicfirearms.com/anderson-ar-lower
$36 from Fat Bot Tactical
http://www.fatboytactical.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=411
This I can confirm because this is one of my LGS.
titsonritz
06-05-17, 13:56
Those prices are really cheap -- will the average owner be able to tell the difference between one of these "cost effective" lowers and one of the more expensive ones? I'm really tempted to stock up
The problem with stocking up on cheap lowers is three or four years down the road when you go to build yourself an AR you find out the lower that has been sitting in the back of the safe is all caddywompus. Personally I'd rather spend an extra 20 buck and get a SIONICS that I know is going to be gtg.
I have a friend the wants an Anderson because that is her last name, I told her to get everything else first, then we will building it immediately after picking up the lower, that way if something is wacked it can be dealt with immediately.
You'll be able to tell, when they don't go together correctly.
Those prices are really cheap -- will the average owner be able to tell the difference between one of these "cost effective" lowers and one of the more expensive ones? I'm really tempted to stock up
I hear stock up, I thought everybody already stocked up. I'm tripping over guns and have a couple stripped lowers and one LMT Mars lower fully built. If you buy that $40 lower to build off, better make sure you can build off of it and never plan to sell it. Because Colts and stuff might be going for a buck or two.
But everybody can spend their money as they wish. It's just if you can buy a quality , brand known piece for $100, why buy something you won't love for $50. I guess everybody see's it different.
PB out
556BlackRifle
06-05-17, 17:49
This is the time to buy and the deals aren't limited to low end manufacturers.
Are you guys worried Anderson et al won't be around in a few years or that they won't stand behind their product if issues aren't discovered and reported until you get around to building them?
Are you guys worried Anderson et al won't be around in a few years or that they won't stand behind their product if issues aren't discovered and reported until you get around to building them?
Drop parts in, test, remove, repeat.
hotrodder636
06-05-17, 18:54
I don't know that I am tripping over guns but I have one or two.;)
I have never really understood nor subscribed to the idea of "buy em cheap and stack em deep" for lowers. How much money will you really make on a stripped lower? I buy for me and mine. Doesn't seem worth my time of effort to do so.
Colt is constantly going out if business and or broke lol.
That is a very good point. Also have to ponder the possibility of enough .gov contracts causing them to go back to oddball parts for the peons as well
I have never really understood nor subscribed to the idea of "buy em cheap and stack em deep" for lowers. How much money will you really make on a stripped lower? I buy for me and mine. Doesn't seem worth my time of effort to do so.
Post tragedy during the Obama years decent lowers would be at three, or even four+ times their regular retail. For a $70 hunk of aluminum that takes up a very small slice of space in the box in the safe, the return can be pretty decent.
You have to be willing to sit on them for the right time, but they don't have an expiration date milled into the side, and if you've bought a quality part you can always just use them yourself.
There's also the recurring worry (i.e. Just recently when people expected President Hillary) that a new AWB could be around the corner and if you don't already have the lowers, it'll be either impossible or far more expensive to get them "later".
Doc Safari
06-06-17, 10:16
There's also the recurring worry (i.e. Just recently when people expected President Hillary) that a new AWB could be around the corner and if you don't already have the lowers, it'll be either impossible or far more expensive to get them "later".
I concur. Anyone who went through the 1994 AWB for ten years knows that when times are good and prices are low you buy more than you need. You can always sell it at a premium during a panic later. About all I plan to buy while Trump is in office is ammo, ammo, and yes, even ammo.
NothingClever
06-06-17, 10:20
I don't do it to make a buck. I do in case of scum politicians finally getting the laws they want passed.
Fatorangecat
06-06-17, 14:42
I know several people who have stacked cheap parts deep with the belief if things change politically they will make a profit or at worse have parts to build with. You cant convince me that politicians arent looking at past bans and thinking of ways to make the next one more affective. I would rather have a couple 6920s than a crate of Anderson lowers if times get weird.
I hear stock up, I thought everybody already stocked up. I'm tripping over guns and have a couple stripped lowers and one LMT Mars lower fully built. If you buy that $40 lower to build off, better make sure you can build off of it and never plan to sell it. Because Colts and stuff might be going for a buck or two.
But everybody can spend their money as they wish. It's just if you can buy a quality , brand known piece for $100, why buy something you won't love for $50. I guess everybody see's it different.
PB out
I plan to continue buying quality stuff and ammo while it's a little less expensive. It sure is less stressful than predicting the next panic buying frenzy.
Glock9mm1990
06-06-17, 19:42
When the liberals come back, they won't make the same mistakes twice. I fully expect the AR pattern rifle to be banned at a federal level in my lifetime. Hopefully they're grandfathered like pre-86 automatics.
There are millions of ARs in circulation who knows how many, they will never get them. Plus a ban will cost them their seats in congress like in 1995. Its not likely to happen given how many there are but one should stock up and stay vigilant.
$36 from Fat Bot Tactical
http://www.fatboytactical.net/index....roducts_id=411
[/B]
This I can confirm because this is one of my LGS.
Are they reliable and quick to ship?
Their 5 pack of extension kits really piqued my interest. Do you have any ideas on manufacturer?
muzzlebraker453
06-07-17, 01:48
in an competitive market where hey are lot of varieties, i see some folks loosing their jobs soon.
There are millions of ARs in circulation who knows how many, they will never get them.
Agreed.
Plus a ban will cost them their seats in congress like in 1995. Its not likely to happen given how many there are but one should stock up and stay vigilant.
It's not likely to happen in today's climate, but it's always precarious. We have courts ignoring the "four corners" doctrine and ruling based on their interpretation of a campaign statement. The courts aren't on our side....
I'm honestly surprised Obama didn't do it when he did the abomination of a healthcare bill.
In either case, I'm with you. Stock up and stay vigilant. I'm buying an AR lower every other month until Trump is out of office and I'm picking up a couple AR mags every time I go to a gun show. Get while the gettin's good....
thespyhunter
06-07-17, 10:42
Yes Sir, they are good folks there.
$36 from Fat Bot Tactical
http://www.fatboytactical.net/index....roducts_id=411
Are they reliable and quick to ship?
Their 5 pack of extension kits really piqued my interest. Do you have any ideas on manufacturer?
I'm buying an AR lower every other month until Trump is out of office and I'm picking up a couple AR mags every time I go to a gun show. Get while the gettin's good....
Probably want to pick up BCGs, barrels, and LPKs as well. In every run up these became unobtanium, and they are also at historic lows now. Would not hurt to get a couple of upper receivers with fwd assist, etc.
titsonritz
06-07-17, 12:12
I'm buying an AR lower every other month until Trump is out of office and I'm picking up a couple AR mags every time I go to a gun show. Get while the gettin's good....
Ammo, dude, lots of freakin' ammo.
$45 aeroprecision gen 2 lower ar schuyler arms !
Probably want to pick up BCGs, barrels, and LPKs as well. In every run up these became unobtanium, and they are also at historic lows now. Would not hurt to get a couple of upper receivers with fwd assist, etc.
I didn't say that was all I was buying!
Ammo, dude, lots of freakin' ammo.
Just got my stuff out of storage. Once I get the garage unpacked I'm going to start unpacking all of my reloading stuff and getting going again on my reloads.
$45 aeroprecision gen 2 lower ar schuyler arms !
Had to do it, twice!
Had to do it, twice!
Good for you!
Had to do it, twice!
Did you have to "Call for availability"? That's what it says now.
Did you have to "Call for availability"? That's what it says now.
No, straight online order.
When I start seeing top of the line companies starting to sell lowers, I start to wonder what's going on.
Outlander Systems
06-10-17, 08:10
I went to Cabela's yesterday to pick up some ammo. I haven't seen that much stock, or that big of a selection of ammo in probably almost 10 years.
When I start seeing top of the line companies starting to sell lowers, I start to wonder what's going on.
556BlackRifle
06-10-17, 11:37
I went to Cabela's yesterday to pick up some ammo. I agent seen that much stock, or that big of a selection of ammo in probably almost 10 years.
Are Cabelas prices still high? Last time I was there looking at Glocks, their prices were stupid high. (Like $100 above normal pricing.) Their ammo prices were nuts too. Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ 9mm was like $13.99 / 50. My LGS which doesn't always have the best prices has the exact same shit for three dollars less per box. The 5.56 NATO was priced high as well as their .223 Rem. Don't even get me started on their .22LR prices..... I walked out empty handed.
Are Cabelas prices still high? Last time I was there looking at Glocks, their prices were stupid high. (Like $100 above normal pricing.) Their ammo prices were nuts too. Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ 9mm was like $13.99 / 50. My LGS which doesn't always have the best prices has the exact same shit for three dollars less per box. The 5.56 NATO was priced high as well as their .223 Rem. Don't even get me started on their .22LR prices..... I walked out empty handed.
Their prices vary wildly. Quite a bit is extremely overpriced, but decent deals can be had. For instance, I think the last time I was there they had IMI (not Independence) 55gr for $6.49 and 62gr for $6.99.
Currently, I'm looking to pick up a Shield 9mm for my wife, and have a decent amount in gift cards for Cabela's. Last week they were $449! I see they're on sale now for $399, but that's still about $70 more than another chain about 50 miles up the highway. Luckily Cabelas does price matching :)
Outlander Systems
06-10-17, 12:23
On ammo? Meh. Yes but I'm willing to pay the extra $1-$2 for the convenience.
On guns?
They're on crack.
Are Cabelas prices still high? Last time I was there looking at Glocks, their prices were stupid high. (Like $100 above normal pricing.) Their ammo prices were nuts too. Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ 9mm was like $13.99 / 50. My LGS which doesn't always have the best prices has the exact same shit for three dollars less per box. The 5.56 NATO was priced high as well as their .223 Rem. Don't even get me started on their .22LR prices..... I walked out empty handed.
Their prices vary wildly. Quite a bit is extremely overpriced, but decent deals can be had. For instance, I think the last time I was there they had IMI (not Independence) 55gr for $6.49 and 62gr for $6.99.
Currently, I'm looking to pick up a Shield 9mm for my wife, and have a decent amount in gift cards for Cabela's. Last week they were $449! I see they're on sale now for $399, but that's still about $70 more than another chain about 50 miles up the highway. Luckily Cabelas does price matching :)
Most places online are around $300 for the 9mm shield, before the mail in rebate.
Most places online are around $300 for the 9mm shield, before the mail in rebate.
Yeah. If it weren't for the gift cards to Cabela's I'd be buying online. A brick and mortar place within their Price Match distance has them for $329 before rebate; so $250-ish after the S&W cash back. A little more than somewhere like PSA. But, I'm essentially using "found money". So I can stomach spending the extra $10-$15.
Thanks though! The M4C community was pretty quick to hit me with PMs and replies trying to save me some cash. Much appreciated.
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