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Bimmer
09-30-08, 00:25
Hi,

I'm considering getting a .22lr conversion to use in my 1/7 twist, mid-length, 14.5" upper.

I know that 1/7 is too fast for .22lr, but is there any way to make this acceptably accurate? "Acceptable" to me would be 4-6MOA, say 1 or 1.5 inch groups at 25yds. I'm more than willing to use just about any .22lr ammo.

No, I do not want a dedicated upper. I want an autoloading .22lr for $200 or less, and this seems like a good way to get it. If a .22lr conversion in my AR is a non-starter, then I'm shopping for a Ruger 10/22.

I searched, and there are a couple anecdotal mentions of this working or not working. If anybody has any experience with this, please post.

Ben

at4rxj
09-30-08, 09:29
I used 1/7 because I got it cheap. It's only about 7", which probably negates some of the twist rate (maybe?).

It gives decent accuracy out to 25yds. I've never shot for groups, but it hits the target. :)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/at4rxj/22%20lr/DSC_0005.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/at4rxj/22%20lr/DSC_0002.jpg

MX5
10-01-08, 07:33
A dedicated upper is nice for sighting and cleaning purposes, but the slight variation can easily be compensated for by the shooter when using it as a drop-in on the host AR. Reliability is very good with quality .22LR ammo; Mini-Mags work very well. Clean your barrel accordingly and you shouldn't have any issues with build-up.

There are minor differences between the .22LR and .223/5.56 barrel inside diameter; about .002". From a practical standpoint it makes little to no difference for the intended use. The bullet will not bounce down the barrel as some people profess. The soft lead upsets enough to get sufficient accuracy. Mine group 1.5" - 2" at 50 yds. and in.

For the lowest possible cost, a drop-in on the host weapon is the way to go. The Atchisson type kits by Ceiner are hard to come by right now or command a premium - CMMG is releasing theirs any day now & appears to be essentially the same design.

CarlosDJackal
10-01-08, 20:48
When using my Colt conversion kit in either of my 10.5-inch LWRC or 10.5-inch LMT 1/7-twist uppers, I have found that the accuracy is more than acceptible plus I do not have to change my RDS settings because they have the same POI at 25-yards and close as with the .223 rounds.

MX5
10-02-08, 08:10
If cost is a factor, sometimes you can find an older AR15/M16 bbl in 1/14 or 1/12 twist that is left over from someone upgrading to 1/9 or 1/7 twist. The 1/14 & 1/12 make very good shooters for the .22 conversions when building a dedicated upper.

45r
10-02-08, 10:59
I have a Cienier kit that I use with my N4. The barrel is 1/7 twist and at 25 yards it pretty much shoots about 3 inch groups using cheap Federal Bulk Ammo.

Bimmer
10-12-08, 23:22
Next question: Has anybody actually laid hands on a CMMG kit yet? I want to see some reviews of these before I plunk down my money...

Ben

lindertw
10-13-08, 07:37
I've got an order in with Brownells for the CMMG kit - they say it'll be available to ship ~20 OCT.

I plan to run it through a Colt 6520 barrel (16" 1/7 twist).

austinN4
10-13-08, 14:41
I have a Cienier kit that I use with my N4. The barrel is 1/7 twist and at 25 yards it pretty much shoots about 3 inch groups using cheap Federal Bulk Ammo.
I wonder about lead fouling with the 22 conversion. What is your experience? Thanks!

CarlosDJackal
10-13-08, 15:12
I've got an order in with Brownells for the CMMG kit - they say it'll be available to ship ~20 OCT.

I plan to run it through a Colt 6520 barrel (16" 1/7 twist).

This is what i was told by Brownell's as well. I'll post my thoughts once I get it (I already have 2 BDM magazines for it too :D).

oakmax
10-22-08, 22:49
My lwrc 12.5" 1/7 twist loves the ceiner kit and fed bulks, I shoot win dynapoints when I want to play w/ the can. Accuracy is good.

cw

uscbigdawg
10-22-08, 22:57
Get a dedicated upper and don't look back. I don't want anything touching my chambers/rifling that doesn't have to. Of course I pitched by dedicated upper, and shoot a Nordic AR22 now. Even better!

Rich

sff70
10-22-08, 23:55
Ciener conversion and black dog mags with 1/7 barrels work for me.

It likes American Eagle and Minimag.

25 yd headshots, all day long, no problem.

No problems with fouling. I shoot plated .22 LR ammo, only.

CarlosDJackal
10-23-08, 11:47
Get a dedicated upper and don't look back. I don't want anything touching my chambers/rifling that doesn't have to. Of course I pitched by dedicated upper, and shoot a Nordic AR22 now. Even better!

Rich

This is not a realistic option for me. A dedicated upper is (a) more expensive and (b) will require its own set of optics and accessories and I am not about to buy a second set of LT FUGs, T-1, LT T-1 mount, and LT BUIS just for that.

austinN4
10-23-08, 13:19
This is not a realistic option for me. A dedicated upper is (a) more expensive and (b) will require its own set of optics and accessories and I am not about to buy a second set of LT FUGs, T-1, LT T-1 mount, and LT BUIS just for that.
You don't really need a second set of everything, you just need the things you have to be on QD mounts. Also, you don't need BUIS when you are running the 22 LR upper, just the optic.

sff70
10-23-08, 23:48
I'm with Carlos on this.

I want my .22 upper to be the same as possible as my regular carbine, to include BUIS, rails, white lights, etc., most of which are not QD.

No swapping of sling, optics, saves time and the PITA factor.

In addition, if you swap your optic on a QD mount, it is going to shoot to the same point of aim on the dedicated .22 upper? I'm guessing not. This adds an additional level of complexity.

Using a conversion instead of a dedicated upper works exceptionally well. Remove 5.5 BCG, install the conversion, load the DBM mags, and I'm in business.

I keep my .22 ammo, mag, and the conversion in a ammo can, so I just grab it and go. Everything's in one place, and it's compact and portable.

On another note, today reached 1050 rounds through the Ciener w/o cleaning it. Probably about time that I do.




You don't really need a second set of everything, you just need the things you have to be on QD mounts. Also, you don't need BUIS when you are running the 22 LR upper, just the optic.

oakmax
10-24-08, 22:52
I'm at about 700 uncleaned, stillshootsvery well,nohiccupsw/ fed bulk pack or dynapoints.

austinN4
10-25-08, 07:42
I sent an email to CMMG and they told me mid November.

lindertw
11-03-08, 09:54
I just received an email from Brownells that my CMMG conversion unit shipped today ;)

CarlosDJackal
11-03-08, 19:42
I just received an email from Brownells that my CMMG conversion unit shipped today ;)

Freaking great!! I ended up canceling my order because they said that it may be mid-November before they get these units in. So I ordered a Ceiner kit from FireQuest and it arrived last week.

I did manage to do a test run with it and the BDM magazines I bought in preparation for the CMMG unit. Works great and I managed to get some low-light practice last Saturday.

On the plus side I actually ordered the kit that is made for the M-16. So if I manage to run across an affordable M-16, I'll be able to shoot .22s to my heart's content!! :D

MX5
11-03-08, 20:04
I received mine from Brownells 1 week ago. So far it works just fine. It looks just like the Ceiner unit.

austinN4
11-04-08, 13:48
After much reading and internal debate between a 22LR upper vs a conversion kit, I ordered a CMMG this morning and put the $325 I saved over an upper toward 1,000 rounds of PRVI 5.56. Call it my election day treat to myself.

I know it is still early, but I have read nothing but good things about the CMMG. ETA is 2 weeks.

lindertw
11-05-08, 20:40
you're gonna love it austin12gauge - mine arrived today (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=244322#post244322) :D

Ridge_Runner_5
11-06-08, 00:01
I use a Ciener .22 kit in my DPMS 1/7 upper and it shoots straight as an arrow...

austinN4
11-06-08, 08:02
you're gonna love it austin12gauge - mine arrived today (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=244322#post244322) :D
Thanks for that link. I hadn't seen your post before. Now I feel even better about my order. I have a friend with a Ciener that he shoots in a Bushy. He doesn't clean it and with several 1,000 rounds of 22 thru it it is very dirty. He keeps it wet and it runs like a top. I am expecting the CMMG to be as good or better right out of the box.

BTW, I too am running an Aimpoint Micro. Love it!

CarlosDJackal
11-07-08, 22:46
I did a little test of accuracy with my Ceiner conversion kit. I installed it in my LWRC M6A1 10.5-inch upper. It has a 1:7-twist and I was shooting Federal .22 550-round bulk ammo boght at Wally World.

I was pleased with its potential accuracy. This is a 10-shot group done at 25-yards in an Indoor range. I took this picture using my Crackberry in bad lighting. A better shooter would probably have printed a smaller group. The orange dot is 1-inch in diameter.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/CarlosDJackal/22LRGroupjpg.jpg

45r
11-22-08, 23:17
I wonder about lead fouling with the 22 conversion. What is your experience? Thanks!



No issues with lead fouling as of yet. I shoot about 1 box of standard .223 after each .22 session. Keeps the barrel free of lead.