Hodge Defense MOD 2, quick takes [Archive]

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WS6

05-30-17, 23:13

To understand the rifle a bit, I want to give a little background as to who the man behind it is, and how and why it came about.

Jim Hodge is a veteran who used to, on deployments, ask himself "What would I carry...if I could make it? Any way I want it to be? If I were king for a day...?"

Over the years after these thoughts, Jim became involved in the industry in many ways, typically doing R&D and joint ventures that people never found out about. The volume of this can be seen in the MOD 2, and came to light because of the MOD 2. Inventions that normally would have never shown his fingerprints, such as the Wedgelock rail, constant taper profile barrel from FN using a proprietary steel, the Badger G3 charging handle, the Badger safety selector and the retro tear-drop FA, among other things, are all projects that he has worked with to perfect for his rifle. Even the gas-block is made to his spec's by SLR. The upper and lower receivers are the only forged, Ambi, integral-trigger-guard receivers that I am aware of. To that end, the use of the particular AlLi alloy is exclusive to Hodge Defense, and was a joint venture between him, Alcoa, and MEGA. In short, the MOD 2 and it's thermally fitted barrel and other unique features and parts, is not a "parts gun" just because the parts come from different companies that specialize in making them, just as the Corvette Z06 is not a kit-car just because the engine and transmission come from different factories.

Now, on to some specifics. Part of the design criteria for the Hodge gun is that it be "combat durable". To that end, I have been following several guns using the same bolt as the MOD 2, and have yet to find one broken, even in 50k+ rounds. As to barrels, I know of at least one gun with a similar round-count that is still A-zone at 50+ yards. The gun absolutely is an energizer bunny due to the barrel steel used, and the BCG used. The bolt is a 9310 unit that is QPQ'ed. it is my theory, that the QPQ treatment is part of what is responsible, as the military has tested DSL and found that the added lubricity greatly enhanced bolt life due to reducing friction on the back of the lugs during extraction while the bolt was under thrust. This makes perfect sense, and QPQ also lowers the coefficient of friction between the barrel extension and bolt...as well as making the parts very easy to wipe clean.
http://i68.tinypic.com/29ghdgn.jpg

The second criteria, is that the rifle perform well both suppressed, and unsuppressed, without the added complexity and failure point of an adjustable gas block. To this end, I measured the gas port on my rifle, and it was 0.074". I am running a Vltor A5 extension on my MOD 2, with a Sprinco Green Spring, and Vltor's lightweight buffer. Here is how it performed, in slow motion, both suppressed and unsuppressed, using 55gr .223 Gold Dot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS4JF0YX-FE
(Suppressed video in next post due to forum formatting requirements)

I found it very pleasant to shoot either way, but several people at the range shot it suppressed, and the reaction was distinct. They could not believe how soft/smooth it shot. One person remarked "It's not even like shooting a gun, more like an Air-Rifle". All of the uber-retro Hodge "Smooooth" ads seem on-point.

The next thing that comes to mind is the craftsmanship. The upper and lower look MADE for each other, as they should, and the lines flow together very nicely.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18671715_903479149981_4107363894220573635_o.jpg?oh =41e66caf61550853f6cb9c23f60adb09&oe=599FB8B1
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18671456_903479100081_3947827062849191669_o.jpg?oh =387a1e521072d9a18718b0359197a823&oe=599C6E0D

Most lowers with integrated trigger-guards leave the trigger-guard somewhat plain, some don't even seem to "break the edges" on them. This is just one more area where attention to detail has been accounted for.
http://i63.tinypic.com/ixxg89.jpg

The next thing that everyone wants to know, is...is it accurate? Most magazines and reviews use 5 or even 3 shot groups. I do not. I used 3, 10-shot groups for my official accuracy testing of this rifle. They are typical of it. I have yet to find a rifle that will not accurately fire 75gr Gold Dot, and that is what I used for this review, as well. Here are the 3, 10-shot groups fired at 100 yards during the accuracy portion of my evaluation. I fired them using a Leupold MK6 1-6 w/TMR-D reticle, mounted in a Geissele SR25 mount. (*This mount/optic were not zeroed for this rifle, hence the group placement)
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18738642_903479289701_6375731013783928865_o.jpg?oh =4eb4c3246da0c339afad5ae5959df25a&oe=59A87BF9
This is very acceptable for a chrome-lined barrel that weighs the same as a USGI M4 barrel, and I suspect as I shoot it more, it will settle in and group even tighter.

Getting back home for cleaning, I noted that the rifle does not foul nearly as rapidly when fired suppressed as other AR-15 type rifles I have shot. I believe this has both to do with the Surefire suppressor, as well as the properly tuned gas system that prolongs the lock-up time just a hair, due to not being as overgassed when suppressed, and helping to keep the blow-back corked up in the barrel just a little longer.

Another thing I would like to address is how long it TOOK for me to get this rifle. It's no secret by now that the Hodge guns are sought after (most production runs sell out within 24 hours), as well as produced in very small amounts. There is a reason for this. #1, Jim Hodge does a lot of consulting work for a lot of companies. He doesn't just sit in the basement building rifles all day, so to speak. Second, the MOD 2 is not the only project he is working on ;) . Third, Hodge Defense is a small operation. It consists of Jim Hodge, and a small group of local veterans, who hand-assemble, thermal fit, etc. the rifles one at a time. It is not a mass-assembly operation. Finally, Hodge Defense is a solvent company. They do not have debt. Any. At all. All guns/parts are fully funded by Hodge Defense before they ever build them. This means there is no debt to float until a run of rifles sells. This is not the "get rich fast" method, but what it IS, is the "market forces do not determine our solvency" method. It's something I have rarely heard of from smaller companies, and kudos to Jim for chasing the same thing in his business model as his rifle model: survivability.

WS6

05-30-17, 23:13

Hodge Defense MOD 2, Suppressed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl0n_uxxOJs

RobertTheTexan

05-31-17, 00:49

WS6

05-31-17, 00:55

An excellent write up and review. I particularly appreciate the back story. I had no idea they were a Texas based, veteran owned company. That definitely peaks my interest even more, plus as I said, being a veteran owned small business, is even better. My exposure to Hodge Defense came from when I was on OP Tactical's website picking up some gear and saw the Hodge handguards. which lasted about a day in stock. Few questions.
Does he have any units, or even uppers down range? Did you specifically request the non-Hodge branded parts? i.e Norgon ambi (I think) The Norgon is standard. and Badger CH The badger is standard.? Or are those standard parts for the Mod 2? What trigger came with your weapon? I installed a LaRue MBT, the trigger that comes with it, I believe, is the ALG QMS, as it's utterly reliable, low cost so it can be swapped without feeling like you threw $200 away, and is still very functional. I understand what you said about his involvement with Badger Ordinance and assume that's why those parts are in the Mod 2 He inspired some of the G3 Ambi CH, and the safety (I used V7 Ambi in my gun) refinements, and used them in the MOD 2 as they resulted, as I understand.. I don't recognize the BCG. Is that manufactured by Hodge? Again, excellent and informative write up. So how long did it take?

The Hodge BCG is 3rd party by a great group. Several other companies use them to good effect, and I have yet to hear an issue. They are of course lasered with Hodge's logo.

The beauty of Hodge Defense guns is that Jim Hodge works with a manufacturer to produce the product he wants, instead of trying to take it all in-house. He and FN collaborated on barrels, he and MEGA on uppers, etc. This means that people who have, literally, decades of experience say, cutting aluminum, hammer forging a barrel, etc. are in charge of the process and do it to his specs based on their collaborative efforts. All of the money in the world can't always hire the TALENT to produce, even if you CAN buy the machinery. Hodge's approach to this not only saves money, but also insures the best product possible, by leveraging not only cutting edge machinery, but also the most experienced users of said machinery across the industry. Again, some may think "but parts gun..." Well, not really. "Collaborative gun" is more like it. The Wedgelock rail is a perfect example of what I am talking about. The Wedge, sure, you can go buy it off the shelf (it was designed specifically for the MOD 2, by Jim Hodge, and MEGA, so I guess you could argue it's a MOD 2 component that you can buy off the shelf, just as much as "It's a MEGA component"), but the rest of the gun? As a whole? Noone sells that barrel. Noone sells that upper and lower. Same for the MOD 1 guns. MOD 1 uppers are made to HIS spec, meant to be thermally fitted to the BE. It's not "just an upper with a clover on it", so to speak.

Kindof in keeping with his original mentality "...if I were king for a day...", pretty much every part on the gun is a result of Jim Hodge working with the company that produces it "to make it for the king, today". Some of the things, he helped design (Wedgelock), and some things, he gave design criteria and collaborated on (FN barrel, receivers, etc.).

"How long did it take"?

Hahaha...Since 2014, as I recall, when I first became aware of the MOD 2. I've followed its progress, and watched it evolve. Production on ACTUAL MOD 2's not slated for government consumption is a VERY recent thing, so it's not really fair to ask me "How long?". It would be similar to asking "How long?" on a 2015 C7 Corvette in late 2014. Well...a few years...when I was at the GM plant in 2011, there were certain off limit areas where c7 t&e was alleged to be occurring on some scale or another. Make sense?

texasjim

05-31-17, 02:05

Couple corrections...
First, I'm not a veteran, never served in the Military...although I did deploy many, many times for various government organizations.
Second, upper, lower, handguard, gas block, pivot and take down pins, forward assist, and barrel are my architecture. The bolt catch, was co designed, the charging handle was per my request, as well as the BCG, and selector is to my spec.

I am a small company, with a crap ton on my plate. I wish I had more time building, I enjoy it. Folks will likely see an FN variant of the mod-2 sooner than see one from me, although I am starting to develop another mod-2 run. I personally shoot a mod-1 built with the same components as a mod-2...reason most mod-2's are all gone, and I still need "demo/show" guns, so therefore I don't feel so bad thrashing a mod-2.

Thank you WS6 for the kind words.

Cheers, Jim Hodge

vicious_cb

05-31-17, 02:13

Thanks for taking the time to post Jim. A few questions, will the FN guns be built to the same standards and tolerances as the HDSI guns? Also do you plan on using AlLi on future wedgelock rails or is it too cost prohibitive.

texasjim

05-31-17, 02:22

Ref FN, yes and no. The FN guns will use my receivers, handguards, and obviously barrels, so yes in that regard. No in the way of some of the small details...mass industrialization won't allow it. The AlLi in the rail was waaaayyy too expensive, and not worth the squeeze in return of weight. We still are doing Ti barrel nuts, and 7075 T6 HG's.

texasjim

05-31-17, 02:30

I have read some of the earlier posts about the lack of production coming out of my shop. I understand how some can come to that conclusion, though rest assured we are going stronger than ever. For those folks, please understand we do much more than build guns for the commercial market. I would love to do more, as I enjoy it, though HDSI has other projects that keep us busy as well as gun building. Cheers...

WS6

05-31-17, 02:43

Thanks for weighing in and clarifying a few things!

Eurodriver

05-31-17, 06:43

Cool stuff.

[douche rant] I'd take the Colt 6920 and 7,000 rounds of ammo for the same price, but I can appreciate a quality rifle for those into such things. [/rant]

Voodoochild

05-31-17, 06:55

Act accordingly in this thread.

TMS951

05-31-17, 07:05

WS6

05-31-17, 07:15

What kind of government agencies are picking these all up? It would seem they would have to have quite a budget. More than LE does, and if LE can afford them I'd be pissed if my taxes were paying for it.

It would seem agencies with money for these, black budget type money, could buy anything to include real military weapons like HK.

Another part I 'don't get' but would love to understand.
This is part of it:

An ongoing Soldier Enhancement Program initiative, launched in 2014, has been leveraged to inform the requirement. Initially, the Army purchased a small number of AU-MOD 2s from Hodge Defense Systems, Inc which were evaluated by Picatinny as well as USASOC. This was the first time a carbine had been evaluated under SEP. Later in 2016, the Army purchased rifles from other manufacturers which included LMT, Daniel Defense and SIG, amongst others.
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/05/08/usasoc-envisions-taking-sopmod-into-the-2020s-with-a-new-upper-receiver-group-for-its-m4a1s/

There are of course other purchasers.

Furbyballer

05-31-17, 07:20

So does anyone have a list of distributors that occasionally receives these unobtanium guns? Because every time I hear they are available, its too late to grab one. Everything I hear about these guns just makes me want one even more, but they are just so hard to track down.

RobertTheTexan

05-31-17, 07:58

..
Couple corrections...
First, I'm not a veteran, never served in the Military...although I did deploy many, many times for various government organizations.
Second, upper, lower, handguard, gas block, pivot and take down pins, forward assist, and barrel are my architecture. The bolt catch, was co designed, the charging handle was per my request, as well as the BCG, and selector is to my spec.

I am a small company, with a crap ton on my plate. I wish I had more time building, I enjoy it.

Thank you sir for speaking up and clarifying those points.
You've still got a leg up on my book, being a fellow Texan and just south of me on 35.

While I realize my world of building an AR isn't even in the same planetary system as yours, I believe I get your comment about building them. I read many times advice that says "Why build when you can buy?" While that definitely has its points, I think the opposite. Why buy when you can build? It must be pretty awesome building with parts you designed though. That's got to be pretty awesome indeed.
I hope from time to time you are able to get into your shop and do some of that building that you enjoy so much. Thanks again for the clarification.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RobertTheTexan

05-31-17, 08:03

The Hodge BCG is 3rd party by a great group. Several other companies use them to good effect, and I have yet to hear an issue. They are of course lasered with Hodge's logo.

The beauty of Hodge Defense guns is that Jim Hodge works with a manufacturer to produce the product he wants, instead of trying to take it all in-house. He and FN collaborated on barrels, he and MEGA on uppers, etc. This means that people who have, literally, decades of experience say, cutting aluminum, hammer forging a barrel, etc. are in charge of the process and do it to his specs based on their collaborative efforts. All of the money in the world can't always hire the TALENT to produce, even if you CAN buy the machinery. Hodge's approach to this not only saves money, but also insures the best product possible, by leveraging not only cutting edge machinery, but also the most experienced users of said machinery across the industry. Again, some may think "but parts gun..." Well, not really. "Collaborative gun" is more like it. The Wedgelock rail is a perfect example of what I am talking about. The Wedge, sure, you can go buy it off the shelf (it was designed specifically for the MOD 2, by Jim Hodge, and MEGA, so I guess you could argue it's a MOD 2 component that you can buy off the shelf, just as much as "It's a MEGA component"), but the rest of the gun? As a whole? Noone sells that barrel. Noone sells that upper and lower. Same for the MOD 1 guns. MOD 1 uppers are made to HIS spec, meant to be thermally fitted to the BE. It's not "just an upper with a clover on it", so to speak.

Kindof in keeping with his original mentality "...if I were king for a day...", pretty much every part on the gun is a result of Jim Hodge working with the company that produces it "to make it for the king, today". Some of the things, he helped design (Wedgelock), and some things, he gave design criteria and collaborated on (FN barrel, receivers, etc.).

"How long did it take"?

Hahaha...Since 2014, as I recall, when I first became aware of the MOD 2. I've followed its progress, and watched it evolve. Production on ACTUAL MOD 2's not slated for government consumption is a VERY recent thing, so it's not really fair to ask me "How long?". It would be similar to asking "How long?" on a 2015 C7 Corvette in late 2014. Well...a few years...when I was at the GM plant in 2011, there were certain off limit areas where c7 t&e was alleged to be occurring on some scale or another. Make sense?

Wow. That gives patience and anticipation whole new meaning.... No wonder you are enjoying this AR so much.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Duffy

05-31-17, 10:18

I like almost everything about it, I only question the blind hole mag release button. A blind hole mag release button is taller in profile, and will almost certainly stick out of the fence that's designed to protect it, and the serrations don't offer much in the way of traction as the factory button. Can you measure the protrusion of the button over the mag release button fence?

WS6

05-31-17, 10:28

Eurodriver

05-31-17, 10:55

I too wonder where these guns are obtainable from

jerrysimons

05-31-17, 11:04

Love me some Hodge Defense.
Good post WS6. Your Mod 2 is 14.5" mid-length right?

Mod 2s are rare and pricey, haven't got one yet, not sure if I will since I got my bases covered and am currently working on a Hodge mod 1 clone home build using a Hodge upper, rail and 12.5" barrel. I can say these components hit the sweet spot. I was blown away with how the two Hodge mod 1 forged uppers fit on my two Mega manufactured for Rainier Arms ADAC pin forged SBR lowers! It was just like the video SMG LEE posted (update for link). I know fit and finish are not that important but when you have two SBR lowers and trying to homebuikd a duty gun to factory like quality, well Hodge parts make it easy, especially the upper receiver. Best forged, mil-spec profile upper on the market! I love the Vltor MUR too but I wish they had the tolerance specs Hodge does.

To the aluminum lithium. V Seven Weapons is putting out billet aluminum lithium parts of extream quality but it is worth noting the Hodge AU Mod 2 uses forged AlLi receivers!

jerrysimons

05-31-17, 11:16

I too wonder where these guns are obtainable from

Would spill the beans but lowers my chance of getting one :jester: A google search for Hodge Defense will reveal the big three (only?) online stores.

Roger,
I know Jim has reasons for all his component selection and they too are of highest quality but in I had a Mod 2 it would have the FCD sweet! I like your philosophy of the forward assist and your bolt catch is most ergonomic!

Duffy

05-31-17, 16:07

Thank you Jerry!

0.0115", as best I can caliper.

Are you sure it's not 0.10 when installed? It's entirely possible it barely sticks out of the fence, just double checking. I know for our blind hole button (EMR-C), it sticks out 0.008, and we made it as short as possible.

noonesshowmonkey

05-31-17, 18:15

I too wonder where these guns are obtainable from

OP Tactical sends e-mails when they get production runs. They sell out in 12ish hours, so you have to be ready.

I, too, enjoy the taking of the primary weapon system to the highest level of evolution and development. The Japanese sword is an excellent analogue to the Hodge methodology. Everything done is intentional, with the best parts, materials, processes, tolerances, etc. all tuned to the end user.

All too much like an actual hand forged nihon-to shinken, I am priced out of the market. Having had a chance to handle such weaponry, though, makes a strong case for why they exist at all.

That said, a 6920/6970 is about all that I can afford, and am likely to spend on such a tool.

That USSOCOM and other assets have access to these is all right and well in the universe. They are the meat eaters and the soul snatchers. Give them the best.

WS6

05-31-17, 18:48

Are you sure it's not 0.10 when installed? It's entirely possible it barely sticks out of the fence, just double checking. I know for our blind hole button (EMR-C), it sticks out 0.008, and we made it as short as possible.

You are correct, I was tired and misplaced the decimal. 0.115'' is accurate

Duffy

05-31-17, 19:21

Thanks for clarifying. I don't want to sell anything in this thread, I'd like to share some findings that some of you might find useful, attention to detail is something we also excel.

We measured the amount of mag catch travel before a mag is dropped to be about (average) 0.07 to 0.08. A button doesn't need to be pushed in all the way for the mag to drop, the part of the mag catch that engages the mag's cutout is but 0.05 deep. In a conversation in 2015 or 2016, I asked Christopher Bartocci about the fence, his explanation was the fence was to prevent mag drops during low crawl.

The mag release fence has its job, that is to prevent accidental / unintended mag drops. An incorrectly installed mag release button will stick out, and so will blind hole buttons and these extended mag release cantilevers. If the button sticks out over the fence by 0.007 or 0.008, it has effectively defeated the fence.

Accidental / unintended mag drops can take place even with a factory button, taller profiled buttons and extended releases increase the possibility.

You can say it's never happened to you, and I can't argue. The fence is placed there for a reason, I'd like it to continue to do its job as designed :D

jerrysimons

06-01-17, 10:10

.074" GP on a 14.5" mid is fairly conservative porting (excellent!) what buffer did it come with?

WS6

06-01-17, 10:12

.074" GP on a 14.5" mid is fairly conservative porting (excellent!) what buffer did it come with?

They are setup to run with an H or H2 and carbine spring, I forget which.

John_Burns

06-01-17, 11:16

.074" GP on a 14.5" mid is fairly conservative porting (excellent!) what buffer did it come with?

Has there been any high altitude cold temperature testing with this small port?

I have tested 0.076 at mid length on 16 inchers and it would not run below 10 degrees F at 5000ft.

ETA Rifle buffer and Sprinco Green spring or A5 with Springco Green spring.

WS6

06-01-17, 11:26

Has there been any high altitude cold temperature testing with this small port?

I have tested 0.076 at mid length on 16 inchers and it would not run below 10 degrees F at 5000ft.

ETA Rifle buffer and Sprinco Green spring or A5 with Springco Green spring.

As a datapoint, my ddm4 pingauges at 0.0745 last I recall, and is a 16.1 middy, and I run it with an a5, spring green, and 7oz buffer, and it runs pmc bronze.

The hodge gas port was verified on full auto lower firing mil ammo both suppressed and unsuppressed to ensure appropriate rof.

yrch21

06-01-17, 22:09

Thank you for posting this review. I hope I can play with one someday, and I bet it shoot as good as it looks!

jpmuscle

06-01-17, 23:18

I'm just happy someone actually has one of these damn things.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Zim

06-02-17, 20:30

I might have missed it. Where did you end up buying the rifle?

BufordTJustice

06-02-17, 21:50

vicious_cb

06-03-17, 06:31

Ugh, I'm drooling at the metallurgy at play here.

I wonder if this article made an error in stating 9310H steel for the CHF barrel (with which I am not familiar).

http://weaponoutfitters.tumblr.com/post/118165263417/hodge-defense-au-mod-production-prototype-this

Jim has crafted an excellent fighting gun from everything I can see. :)

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

That is the correct steel, everyone else just calls it "machine gun barrel steel". Its just one part of the secret sauce FN uses make those long lasting CHF M249 barrels.

WS6

06-03-17, 07:05

SiGfever

06-03-17, 09:47

Mr. Hodge,
You are truly a man of insight, honor, and a have a passion for quality. If America had more men like you it would be a blessing. You sir, make America Proud!

-John

dramabeats

06-03-17, 11:34

That is correct. Its just one part of the secret sauce FN uses make those long lasting CHF machine gun barrels.

Machine gun steel is the base material but Hodge uses a different process. FN has had to license it from Hodge to use it in their upcoming rifles.

VIP3R 237

12-23-18, 00:19

Necropost I know, but has more people gotten their hands on these rifles? I’m curious if they think the juice is worth the squeeze over let’s say an sr15?

pointblank4445

12-23-18, 07:35

Necropost I know, but has more people gotten their hands on these rifles? I’m curious if they think the juice is worth the squeeze over let’s say an sr15?

Hodge stuff does become available, but it is extraordinarily tough to get. OPD does stripped receiver releases and it reminds me of trying to win a radio call-in contest...they literally are gone in under 60 seconds. That last couple of parts releases on Weapon Outfitters and OPT were sucked up quickly too.
The legend of the Hodge has grown and with it the difficulty of getting parts.

Rumor has it that there has been difficulty sourcing raw materials necessary for some of the parts. Unless you're prepared to play the game and be patient, the SR15 is the better bet for just going out and getting a gun at your leisure. Even IF there is another Mod 2 release...you're going to have to be on the ball for one...and even IF you are on the ball, it only guarantees a chance at it.

If you're a 1911 guy, I'd say KAC is akin to a Wilson or Nighthawk in that it's pricey but there's still a factory/industrial feel to it. The Hodge is more like a Chuck Rogers or John Harrison gun in that it's a true hand-built buy one guy deal. And in the case of the 1911's and the AR's in question...it's worth it to some but not others.

And for the record, yes I have Hodge guns, KAC's as well of the king daddy of "is the juice worth the squeeze AR's" : the 416.

morpheus562

12-23-18, 13:37

Biggy

12-23-18, 14:50

I managed to get my hands on a Hodge stripped upper, 11.5" rail, and gas block. They are nice. Biggest complaint is the rail has very little clearance underneath and ANY attachment, even Magpul mlok rail panels, will come in contact with the gas block.

Here might be a few options for some that have mlok handguards that have small inside diameter dimensions. Some mlok grip panels that straddle the gas block will work. They also make Mlok grip tape panels for added grip traction only.

https://www.railscales.us/collections/products (there are other brands similar to these also)
https://www.sabersolutionsllc.net/collections/accessories/products/m-lok-grip-enhancement-tape

https://i.imgur.com/TkuZdkol.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fdtpBbTl.jpg

vicious_cb

12-23-18, 15:35

Hodge stuff does become available, but it is extraordinarily tough to get. OPD does stripped receiver releases and it reminds me of trying to win a radio call-in contest...they literally are gone in under 60 seconds. That last couple of parts releases on Weapon Outfitters and OPT were sucked up quickly too.
The legend of the Hodge has grown and with it the difficulty of getting parts.

Rumor has it that there has been difficulty sourcing raw materials necessary for some of the parts. Unless you're prepared to play the game and be patient, the SR15 is the better bet for just going out and getting a gun at your leisure. Even IF there is another Mod 2 release...you're going to have to be on the ball for one...and even IF you are on the ball, it only guarantees a chance at it.

If you're a 1911 guy, I'd say KAC is akin to a Wilson or Nighthawk in that it's pricey but there's still a factory/industrial feel to it. The Hodge is more like a Chuck Rogers or John Harrison gun in that it's a true hand-built buy one guy deal. And in the case of the 1911's and the AR's in question...it's worth it to some but not others.

And for the record, yes I have Hodge guns, KAC's as well of the king daddy of "is the juice worth the squeeze AR's" : the 416.

This is correct. I have a Hodge receiver and barrel + gas block just waiting for a Wedgelock to become available. Took more than 6 months to acquire those. Play the waiting game you must.

Biggy

12-23-18, 16:28

IMHO, while it is not the lightest handguard out there, it could very well be one of the most, if not the most rigid of the slick sided handguards out there.

vicious_cb

12-23-18, 17:03

Necropost I know, but has more people gotten their hands on these rifles? I’m curious if they think the juice is worth the squeeze over let’s say an sr15?

I consider them 2 different animals. IMHO you buy a Knights gun because its an evolution of Stoner's gas system and improved bolt design. You buy a Hodge if you want an AR that takes all standard mil-spec parts but takes the precision and detail of manufacturing and assembly to the Nth degree.

VIP3R 237

12-23-18, 18:33

So both are on the table, which one do you grab?

I consider them 2 different animals. IMHO you buy a Knights gun because its an evolution of Stoner's gas system and improved bolt design. You buy a Hodge if you want an AR that takes all standard mil-spec parts but takes the precision and detail of manufacturing and assembly to the Nth degree.

jpmuscle

12-23-18, 18:53

KAC because this hodge vaporware cult stuff is lame.

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vicious_cb

12-23-18, 19:20

So both are on the table, which one do you grab?

If I were able to own only 1 AR, it would be a Hodge since it takes standard AR parts.

The only problem I have with KAC is I cant rebuild the gun using parts or do any major overhauls to the gun without going through the factory or finding a like KAC specialist like marvin pitts.

morpheus562

12-23-18, 20:06

In reply to VIP3R 237

55143

The short answer is: "It depends". My Hodge parts rifle is zeroed with 75gr Gold Dots and is the first thing I grab for home defense. My KAC is versatile and my primary training rifle. Luckily we don't live in a world where we can only have one rifle, but if I had to choose I'd keep the KAC. I'm not worried about the proprietary parts because they last roughly the life of the rifle. If I have a bolt break, it will probably be time for me to replace my barrel.

snakedoctor

12-23-18, 20:14

https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-systems-trilok-wedge-mount-7-sided-mlok-rail/

Biggy

12-23-18, 20:44

https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-systems-trilok-wedge-mount-7-sided-mlok-rail/

It looks like and improved wedgelock handguard mlok wise, but it’s Inside diameter is only 31.115 mm or 1.225 “ inches, and it’s used 6061 vs 7075 aluminum and has a steel barrel nut vs a titanium barrel nut. I prefer handguards that have at least a 1.400” ID, as they have more clearance and less interference with attachments, also small diameter handguards *can*heat up a little faster depending somewhat on their wall thickness.

snakedoctor

12-23-18, 20:54

It looks like and improved wedgelock handguard mlok wise, but it’s Inside diameter is only 31.115 mm or 1.225 “ inches, and it’s used 6061 vs 7075 aluminum and has a steel barrel nut vs a titanium barrel nut. I prefer handguards that have at least a 1.400” ID, as they have more clearance and less interference with attachments, also they usually don’t heat up as fast.

Agreed. I don’t know why they used 6061 vs 7075

Biggy

12-23-18, 21:14

Agreed. I don’t know why they used 6061 vs 7075

It is easier to machine and easier on tooling and 7075 is cheaper to buy, = $$$, so they can be more competitive and sell at a lower price and make more profit.

Furbyballer

12-23-18, 22:03

Solgw is also rolling out a wedgelock variant in 7075 shortly.

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drtywk

12-23-18, 22:25

KAC because this hodge vaporware cult stuff is lame.

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Hodge, because I have four of them and my 12.5 is my do it all gun. Plus you can’t get a KAC in 12.5.

vicious_cb

12-23-18, 22:32

https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-systems-trilok-wedge-mount-7-sided-mlok-rail/

I like the design. Integral QD sockets and all around Mlok slots are a big improvement. That would be my biggest gripe with the Hodge version is that there is only 1 Mlok slot on the 10:30 and 1:30 o'clock positions.

AFAIK the 1.225" ID is the same for the Hodge and Mega/ZEV versions, if thats the case then the barrel nut design should be the same for all the different handguards in case you really wanted a Ti barrel nut. Unless you have a real need for the extra strength of 7075 Al, like needing to keep your laser zeroed after taking a hard drop, then 6061 is more then enough.

Biggy

12-23-18, 23:06

alx01

12-24-18, 00:28

https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-systems-trilok-wedge-mount-7-sided-mlok-rail/

handguard looks great but $290 for a 13" for a lesser known brand (vs say BCM, Centurion Arms, KAC, Geissele, or DD) - thanks, but no thanks.
for a $150-$180 I'll think about it vs just getting a BCM MCMR or Centurion Arms CMR just to have something different. Anything more than that - deserves a hard "NO" from me.

drtywk

12-24-18, 12:30

I would really not care to own any handguard that would not keep my front rail mounted BUIS zeroed pretty darn close with some *somewhat* rough use. All free float handguards flex to different degrees, but some return back to zero better than others .
A couple interesting threads going on right now about the G MK16 handguard on tos.

The Hodge Wedgelock is one of, if no the most, rigid rails out there today. Also, the cloners all throwing their hands up in the air and screaming the sky is falling on TOS are all listening the the drones of misinformation posted everywhere. If I were to start somewhere with the G MK16, I would start by looking at the barrel nut. The two that I have are not what I would call solid and are easily deformed. Food for thought regarding the DOD testing...

Coal Dragger

12-24-18, 15:44

If you want a solid rail, short of a monolithic upper, it won’t get much more solid than a Knight’s Armament rail that also acts as the barrel but.

ALCOAR

12-24-18, 15:57

The Hodge Wedgelock is one of, if no the most, rigid rails out there today. Also, the cloners all throwing their hands up in the air and screaming the sky is falling on TOS are all listening the the drones of misinformation posted everywhere. If I were to start somewhere with the G MK16, I would start by looking at the barrel nut. The two that I have are not what I would call solid and are easily deformed. Food for thought regarding the DOD testing...

I'd put an OG MK1 against any non MRP railed upper in terms of torture testing. The OG MK1 has huge anti rotation wings not tabs....is much thicker than a Wedgelock that has to conform to MLOK specs. Has GA's original barrel nut design, and features an uber attachment design....steel inserts inside the rail.

I'm not making any declarative statements, but I'd be very surprised if another rail could beat out the OG MK1.

jpmuscle

12-24-18, 18:21

snakedoctor

12-25-18, 19:05

Does anyone know if Hodge is still making the wedge lock rail?

Rogue556

12-25-18, 21:51

I'd put an OG MK1 against any non MRP railed upper in terms of torture testing. The OG MK1 has huge anti rotation wings not tabs....is much thicker than a Wedgelock that has to conform to MLOK specs. Has GA's original barrel nut design, and features an uber attachment design....steel inserts inside the rail.

I'm not making any declarative statements, but I'd be very surprised if another rail could beat out the OG MK1.

The Mk1 and Mk3 rails are easily my favorite rails ever produced (I prefer the MK3 myself but that's just personal preference).

In comparison to my Daniel Defense RISII rails the MK3 feels more stout and is easier to install, and my BCM rails feel like they were made of cardboard in comparison.

I really wish Geissele would make a newer additon of the MK1/MK3 and use the 45 degree QD sling mounts from their HK 416 rails. Replace the proprietary mounting holes/slots with MLOK at the 10:30, 1:30, 9, 3, and 6 o'clock positions. It'd be the last AR rail I bought besides an LMT MRP.

methical20

12-25-18, 23:06

If you like the MK1 that much, try to get your hands on the Hodge Pinchlock. I much prefer it to the MK1.

pointblank4445

12-25-18, 23:32

If you like the MK1 that much, try to get your hands on the Hodge Pinchlock. I much prefer it to the MK1.

Agreed...

I was all about the Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 because of the HK SMR rail.

While the Wedge lock is great, I kept my Mk3's because they were a brick s***house. When the Pinch Locks came out, I replaced all the rest of my Geissele's.
Wedge Lock (Hodge) is 7076, has an indexing pin and 2x tension set screws
Pinch Lock is 6061 (like Geissele), has indexing pin, anti-rotation tabs, a cross-bolt like HK/Geissele. The Pinch Lock is larger OD for more forgiving mounting than the Wedge

So, prior to Zev's taking control of MEGA, the Hodge and MEGA Wedge locks were both 7076 w/ Titanium barrel nut. Since that time, Zev changed to 6061 and the barrel nut is now 2x heavier (I measured) and partially magnetic. I inquired regarding the barrel nut alloy, but only got a "We'll look into that" and never heard back again. This does not give me much confidence in what Zev is doing.

methical20

12-25-18, 23:35

@pointblank

Are the Hodge barrel nuts now the same as the Zev ones or are they different?

pointblank4445

12-25-18, 23:49

@pointblank

Are the Hodge barrel nuts now the same as the Zev ones or are they different?

The pinch lock feels heavier like the Zev. I will go in and measure it at work on Thurs where we have finer scales.

So right now, I have an older Hodge Wedge lock barrel nut, a Zev barrel nut that I got as a spare, and a Hodge Pinch Lock...they are all interchangeable, but...
Hodge Wedge lock nut: 2.0 oz
Zev Rail: 3.6 oz
Hodge Pinch lock nut: (standby)

HCM

12-26-18, 04:51

https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-systems-trilok-wedge-mount-7-sided-mlok-rail/

This looks like a Mega Wedge lock with a QD socket added.

Eurodriver

12-26-18, 04:55

OP Tactical sends e-mails when they get production runs. They sell out in 12ish hours, so you have to be ready.

I, too, enjoy the taking of the primary weapon system to the highest level of evolution and development. The Japanese sword is an excellent analogue to the Hodge methodology. Everything done is intentional, with the best parts, materials, processes, tolerances, etc. all tuned to the end user.

All too much like an actual hand forged nihon-to shinken, I am priced out of the market. Having had a chance to handle such weaponry, though, makes a strong case for why they exist at all.

That said, a 6920/6970 is about all that I can afford, and am likely to spend on such a tool.

That USSOCOM and other assets have access to these is all right and well in the universe. They are the meat eaters and the soul snatchers. Give them the best.

Yeah bro. I’m not gonna actually buy one. I was just wondering since I’ve never seen them advertised anywhere.

drtywk

12-26-18, 17:43

Does anyone know if Hodge is still making the wedge lock rail?

Yes, they never stopped making them.

The Pinchlock barrel nut is steel, not titanium like on the Wedgelock, and weighs 3.7oz, per my scale.