View Full Version : Pistol w 20rd dbl stack dbl feed pos mag & a .30 straight wall case...
Is there anything like this?
TED
Is there anything like this?
TED
No idea what you are asking?
SomeOtherGuy
06-10-17, 16:14
CZ Skorpion original version (not the 9mm Evo 3) is pretty close to this.
I'm not aware of any ordinary, holster-able pistols that have double feed position magazines - only SMG types.
OP what are you looking for exactly? Not quite following your train of thought, wanting a 30 cal round seems odd, to say the least, as well as the 20rd box mag, assuming you are looking for something like flush fit, extended is a little less of an issue. Double position feed isn't common in handguns, and not entirely sure it is all that useful in a pistol in general unless you are looking at some kind of machine pistol, which then we run into the NFA issues, as well as grip issues possibly.
CZ Skorpion original version (not the 9mm Evo 3) is pretty close to this.
I'm not aware of any ordinary, holster-able pistols that have double feed position magazines - only SMG types.
The H&K VP70 and Steyr GB both were double stack double position feed handguns. The VP70 was also designed as a kind of PDW machine pistol thing that would have burst fire with a stock attached as well, but the GB is more of a standard military style pistol. Both were 18 round mag guns though. Not aware of any others, that weren't first machine pistols that got turned into handguns to meet US law. Regardless the double position feed isn't common in many handguns in general.
The CZ 61 though is probably about as close to what the OP is asking for as I can think of, and hadn't really thought about it since it isn't something I think much about period. I still am curious as to why the OP has there requirements.
Ok, apparently I'm out of the loop. What is a double feed position magazine? Google gave me nothing.
Ok, apparently I'm out of the loop. What is a double feed position magazine? Google gave me nothing.
Mega,
Double feed is like an uzi magazine, colt smg mag, scorption evo, FN 5-7 etc. There is no bottle neck in the mag which converts the double stack to a single stack just prior to feeding.
Ok, apparently I'm out of the loop. What is a double feed position magazine? Google gave me nothing.
ASSuming he means double or two position feed magazine. At which point look at your AR mag and compare it to say a glock magazine. Both are double stack, but the glock feeds from a single position, while the AR magazine feeds from two positions, left and right.
Then again, the OP could be meaning something different and the rest of us here just read it how our minds would assume it to be. I hope that does clear things up a little.
SomeOtherGuy
06-10-17, 21:59
The H&K VP70 and Steyr GB both were double stack double position feed handguns. The VP70 was also designed as a kind of PDW machine pistol thing that would have burst fire with a stock attached as well, but the GB is more of a standard military style pistol. Both were 18 round mag guns though. Not aware of any others, that weren't first machine pistols that got turned into handguns to meet US law. Regardless the double position feed isn't common in many handguns in general.
Good to know. I've heard of those pistols but have never seen them in person.
The CZ 61 though is probably about as close to what the OP is asking for as I can think of, and hadn't really thought about it since it isn't something I think much about period. I still am curious as to why the OP has there requirements.
I suspect this is some sort of trivia question, or someone elsewhere saying "I have a gun that has X - Y - Z, what is it?"
titsonritz
06-10-17, 23:16
A technical writing coarse may be in order.
A technical writing coarse may be in order.
And spelling for you.
spyderco monkey
06-11-17, 07:00
Is there anything like this?
TED
Off the shelf, the two closest items would be:
-CZ P09 - 19+1rd 9mm
-FN Five seveN - 20+1 5.7x28
The closest to what you want is the VBR Belgium prototype in 7.92x24 - essentially a shortened .30 Carbine @ 42kspi, designed for firing brass AP projectiles. 19rd mags held 21 as I recall.
http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/61001.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/792ecrareeks1.JPG
Off the shelf, the two closest items would be:
-CZ P09 - 19+1rd 9mm
-FN Five seveN - 20+1 5.7x28
The closest to what you want is the VBR Belgium prototype in 7.92x24 - essentially a shortened .30 Carbine @ 42kspi, designed for firing brass AP projectiles. 19rd mags held 21 as I recall.
http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/61001.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/792ecrareeks1.JPG
To this post, YES! That is the kind of thing that I was hoping for as far as the cartridge itself goes.
To all: No, not a trivia question. Just wondering what is out there that is similar to what I have in mind a snow one can know everything and two heads are better than one. Yes, I really meant a dbl stack dbl feed position mag like an UZI mag, HK VP70, or Steyr GB.
What I am envisioning is a mid to service sized pistol for civilian self defense that has a 20rd double feed position magazine in a still decent grip size.
I was imagining that in order to keep the grip size decent and capacity high, we would have to have a smaller round. I feel that the 5.7x28 has too small and too light of a projectile. Otherwise it would be of great interest.
One wonders what might be possible with a cartridge like the 5.7x28 necked up to be straight walled?
TED
crusader377
06-11-17, 11:38
I think the closest you could get without developing a new round would be to rechamber a FN FNX-45 to fire the 9x23 Winchester. Such a pistol would still be service pistol sized and would likely have a capacity of 19-21rds with the ballistics which would be similar to .357 Magnum.
Another option would be developing a rimless/slightly shortened .327 Federal Magnum. 20+ round capacity should be achievable.
I was thinking something along the lines of a pistol chambered in .30 carbine. But the M1 carbine was designed to replace the pistol as a PDW.
titsonritz
06-11-17, 15:11
And spelling for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCmuATH2yzo
To this post, YES! That is the kind of thing that I was hoping for as far as the cartridge itself goes.
To all: No, not a trivia question. Just wondering what is out there that is similar to what I have in mind a snow one can know everything and two heads are better than one. Yes, I really meant a dbl stack dbl feed position mag like an UZI mag, HK VP70, or Steyr GB.
What I am envisioning is a mid to service sized pistol for civilian self defense that has a 20rd double feed position magazine in a still decent grip size.
I was imagining that in order to keep the grip size decent and capacity high, we would have to have a smaller round. I feel that the 5.7x28 has too small and too light of a projectile. Otherwise it would be of great interest.
One wonders what might be possible with a cartridge like the 5.7x28 necked up to be straight walled?
TED
You know, this brings back up the 5.7.
I know the failures of the light ammo have been well documented, but the heavies were supposed to perform well, but I never saw a conclusive test (DrGKR for example).
Also, I wonder how something like the new TMKs would perform. Or as stated, necked up to a 6.8 or 30. (I think 30 would be straight walled, but not sure).
Edit: but then with decreased velocity, it's back to pistol ballistics, so your at square one and might as well have bought a 9.
I was thinking something along the lines of a pistol chambered in .30 carbine. But the M1 carbine was designed to replace the pistol as a PDW.
Not to mention, the .30 carbine's OAL is 1.650 - a bit longer than the .357 Magnum.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is as close as I can find......The 7.5 FK field pistol by BRNO defense....Not a straight-walled case, nor a double position feed, nevertheless, an interesting handgun.
https://www.fkbrno.com/#
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8M5j6oquEIg/VvBuivWBUmI/AAAAAAAADOs/_Zel_C5PeAoNTAYYu8yxxhNg0Krlpf1GQ/s1600/2016-03-21_SuT_04_SuT_FKBrno_IMG_4698.jpg
https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/pistols/FK-Brno-combat-field-pistol-7-5-mm-caliber/FK-BRNO-03.jpg
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/5/2/the-world-s-fastest-pistol-75-fk-brno/
Not to mention, the .30 carbine's OAL is 1.650 - a bit longer than the .357 Magnum.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, then there's that... Handguns are supposed to be just that, something that fits in the hand and something that fits the hand, short of a phased plasma handgun in the 40 watt range, will have a limit on power.
spyderco monkey
06-11-17, 22:07
You know, this brings back up the 5.7.
I know the failures of the light ammo have been well documented, but the heavies were supposed to perform well, but I never saw a conclusive test (DrGKR for example).
Also, I wonder how something like the new TMKs would perform. Or as stated, necked up to a 6.8 or 30. (I think 30 would be straight walled, but not sure).
Edit: but then with decreased velocity, it's back to pistol ballistics, so your at square one and might as well have bought a 9.
The new loads for the 5.7x28 perform very well. The trick is good projectile selection between 34-45gr and loaded to full pressure. It's a 50kspi cartridge that FN loads to 37-40kpsi - basically like a .357 loaded to .38 +p specs.
34gr Gel Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3eTHn9VrzE
37gr Gel Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTxYsZKwiLE
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.