View Full Version : Some Perspective on America: "The Greatest Generation" Was No Exaggeration
Just found out about the passing of General Sam V. Wilson today. All I knew about him came from an excellent read, "The Marauders" by Charleton Ogburn, Jr., regarding the Burma Campaign in WWII. Wilson was an outstanding young officer there, and had he done nothing else he would have made his mark. I did know that he went on to a long career in the Army, but had no idea how impressive it was.
The obit:http://www.richmond.com/obituaries/wilson-samuel/article_25f60998-d204-546d-8455-f009b540a8e0.html
Steven Pressfield, of "Gates of Fire" and other good books, also wrote this: http://www.stevenpressfield.com/2010/07/general-sam-v-wilson/
"The Greatest Generation" saddled us with $20T in debt, and social programs based on Ponzi schemes.
No thanks.
Doc Safari
06-14-17, 14:24
They also let their kids do whatever the Hell they wanted which led to the debacle of the permissiveness and left-wing lunacy of the 1960's for which we are still paying a price.
"The Greatest Generation" saddled us with $20T in debt, and social programs based on Ponzi schemes.
No thanks.
They also let their kids do whatever the Hell they wanted which led to the debacle of the permissiveness and left-wing lunacy of the 1960's for which we are still paying a price.
Oh For ****s Sake...
I'm sure they were planning all that while charging up the beaches at Normandy and island hopping across the Pacific...
Neither of y'all's shit posts have anything to do with the Man in the OP so why post them?
Gentlemen, they also kicked the living shit out of three enemies on multiple fronts, so in the vain of the OP's post regarding GEN. Wilson, I am good for keeping the focus on that generation's military accomplishments.
Oh For ****s Sake...
I'm sure they were planning all that while charging up the beaches at Normandy and island hopping across the Pacific...
Neither of y'all's shit posts have anything to do with the Man in the OP so why post them?
He brought up "The Greatest Generation"...
Just Sayin.
If you want to talk about military heros, then talk about that.
Of course there's a chance that we could be speaking German, eating brauts and enjoying their social programs without the Greatest generation.
Doc Safari
06-14-17, 14:48
Oh For ****s Sake...
I'm sure they were planning all that while charging up the beaches at Normandy and island hopping across the Pacific...
Neither of y'all's shit posts have anything to do with the Man in the OP so why post them?
LOL. Point taken. I was just commenting on how true American heroes could sire a generation of f**ktards.
(And I'm a Boomer so I resemble that remark).
EDITED TO ADD:
I actually think the "greatest generation" was the one that wrote the Constitution and fought against incredible odds to defeat the world's most powerful military at the time, knowing they could very well lose and the leaders all be hanged. In fact, we did not so much "win" the American Revolution as to stick it out long enough as losers to make the British lose the belly for war.
World War II? I hate to burst anybody's bubble but Yamamoto knew the Japanese would lose World War II. He expected them to only win against us for a year or so.
The war in Europe wasn't some great triumph for the western allies. What we did was help the Soviet Union win in the East. We could have stayed completely out of Europe and the Russians would have overrun the place all the way to Gibraltar. We invaded Normandy not to defeat the Nazis but to prevent Russia from flying its flag in Western Europe.
This is not to negate the sacrifices of the veterans who fought World War 2: far from it. They bled and died legitimately protecting our freedoms.
I just maintain that the people who fought and died in the American Revolution actually had more at stake for us as a country.
Revisionist history raises it's ugly head !
Have any of us been a part of anything so great and majestic as America's effort in WWII?
A divided Nation came together when it counted and with our manufacturing might, as well as our citizen soldiers, saved Europe and much of the remaining Free World from tyranny.
I don't know about you, but I never had to stand pissing my pants with a mix of fear and adrenaline, waiting for the ramp of a landing craft to drop exposing me to an unending torrent of fire. I never had to close my eyes and tell myself to breath slowly as I bounced and prayed just before waddling to the door of a C-47 and exiting into hell. I never had to force myself to drop into the ball turret of a B-17 for my eighteenth mission over the flak and fighter filled skies of Europe, knowing that each mission I flew made the likelihood of my survival an even more distant dream.
Nope, I never had to do those things because someone else did it for me, in lands far from home.
So yeah, in our history those men and women are the Greatest Generation. I'm proud to call their flag mine.
Second greatest? Those who flocked to answer the call after 9/11.
JM $.02
Have any of us been a part of anything so great and majestic as America's effort in WWII?
A divided Nation came together when it counted and with our manufacturing might, as well as our citizen soldiers, saved Europe and much of the remaining Free World from tyranny.
I don't know about you, but I never had to stand pissing my pants with a mix of fear and adrenaline, waiting for the ramp of a landing craft to drop exposing me to an unending torrent of fire. I never had to close my eyes and tell myself to breath slowly as I bounced and prayed just before waddling to the door of a C-47 and exiting into hell. I never had to force myself to drop into the ball turret of a B-17 for my eighteenth mission over the flak and fighter filled skies of Europe, knowing that each mission I flew made the likelihood of my survival an even more distant dream.
Nope, I never had to do those things because someone else did it for me, in lands far from home.
So yeah, in our history those men and women are the Greatest Generation. I'm proud to call their flag mine.
Second greatest? Those who flocked to answer the call after 9/11.
JM $.02
Well said.
I do agree with Doc though in that the Founders faced certain death if the Revolution failed. The odds against them were probably greater (all things considered, scaled for the time). Doesn't negate the sacrifices made by the WWII guys at all, just different.
I'll add one myself, and it doesn't necessarily involve the personal safety of the leaders, but did entail the future of our country as we know it (literally) as well as the wholesale slaughter of Americans: the Civil War. If they failed (the Union) we would not be the country we are today, and unlikely either would have been a world power by itself.
Have any of us been a part of anything so great and majestic as America's effort in WWII?
A divided Nation came together when it counted and with our manufacturing might, as well as our citizen soldiers, saved Europe and much of the remaining Free World from tyranny.
I don't know about you, but I never had to stand pissing my pants with a mix of fear and adrenaline, waiting for the ramp of a landing craft to drop exposing me to an unending torrent of fire. I never had to close my eyes and tell myself to breath slowly as I bounced and prayed just before waddling to the door of a C-47 and exiting into hell. I never had to force myself to drop into the ball turret of a B-17 for my eighteenth mission over the flak and fighter filled skies of Europe, knowing that each mission I flew made the likelihood of my survival an even more distant dream.
Nope, I never had to do those things because someone else did it for me, in lands far from home.
So yeah, in our history those men and women are the Greatest Generation. I'm proud to call their flag mine.
Second greatest? Those who flocked to answer the call after 9/11.
JM $.02
Excellent post but, just curious why you think the post 9/11 troops are the second greatest? I saw some hard assed Navy, disciplined as hell Marines and very professional Army during my tours and have the utmost respect for all of them but why do you think they're the second greatest generation?
Cagemonkey
06-14-17, 21:29
I don't believe in a so called "Greatest Generation". I believe the Situation, Necessity and Times make People what they are. Most so called "Hero's" never set out to be. They just were because it was the right thing to do. Most are very humble and don't seek recognition.
Excellent post but, just curious why you think the post 9/11 troops are the second greatest? I saw some hard assed Navy, disciplined as hell Marines and very professional Army during my tours and have the utmost respect for all of them but why do you think they're the second greatest generation?
Because of the outpouring of Patriotism and enlistments from all walks of life. Because the unfunded war resulted in multiple deployments to the combat zone for both career and one and done enlistees, both active component and reserve.
But most of all because a lot of the folks thought the generation that sacked up and went to the GWOT were slackers. They rose to the occasion.
As far as I'm concerned, everyone who raised their hand, swore, and served with honor, is a Great American, regardless of era.
I don't believe in a so called "Greatest Generation". I believe the Situation, Necessity and Times make People what they are. Most so called "Hero's" never set out to be. They just were because it was the right thing to do. Most are very humble and don't seek recognition.
And I totally agree. The WWII vets certainly had an occasion to rise to. It could be said that the stakes for the World were far greater than in either the Revolutionary or Civil War.
MountainRaven
06-14-17, 23:21
World War II? I hate to burst anybody's bubble but Yamamoto knew the Japanese would lose World War II. He expected them to only win against us for a year or so.
The war in Europe wasn't some great triumph for the western allies. What we did was help the Soviet Union win in the East. We could have stayed completely out of Europe and the Russians would have overrun the place all the way to Gibraltar. We invaded Normandy not to defeat the Nazis but to prevent Russia from flying its flag in Western Europe.
Had the US not entered the war and at least supplied the Soviets with tanks and other lend-lease equipment, the Red Army would have been toddlers and geriatrics armed with spears by the time they reached the Rheinland. The Germans would still have military-aged males, tanks, guns, bullets, and bombs.
At least if the Soviets fought the way that they had to under Stalin. Zhukov and the other Soviet generals may have changed their tactics and strategy to be less wasteful of men and materials, if their shortfall of armor and aircraft wasn't filled (and then some) by factories in America, Canada, India, South Africa, and the UK.
Nazi Germany could not defeat the Soviet Union - there are simply too few German soldiers to occupy too much Soviet soil. And without the assistance of the United States, United Kingdom, Free French, Free Poles, and others, the Soviet Union could not defeat Nazi Germany - because the Nazis were already destroying Soviet materiel faster than the Soviets could produce it, and that was with troops in North Africa, Greece, the Balkans, plus troops assigned to defend the coasts of Norway, Denmark, and France (and Greece, Italy, and the Balkans) against both Commando raids and full-on invasions by the US, UK, and other Western allies.
They also let their kids do whatever the Hell they wanted which led to the debacle of the permissiveness and left-wing lunacy of the 1960's for which we are still paying a price.Same generation but not necessarily the same individuals. A good many realized the necessity of raising the same kind of people for the future to carry on our civilization. But many also did not.
As far as I'm concerned, everyone who raised their hand, swore, and served with honor, is a Great American, regardless of era.
Drop the mic....
Doc Safari
06-15-17, 09:03
I'll concede one area where we HAD to defeat the Nazis, and the invasion of Western Europe was therefore a necessity on our part: we COULD NOT let the Germans develop the atomic bomb first. We knew they were working on it. The defection of German scientists proved it. But we did not know how close they were. Had the Nazis gotten the bomb first we would likely be living in the aftermath of a series of attacks from nuclear-tipped V2 rockets.
I'll concede one area where we HAD to defeat the Nazis, and the invasion of Western Europe was therefore a necessity on our part: we COULD NOT let the Germans develop the atomic bomb first. We knew they were working on it. The defection of German scientists proved it. But we did not know how close they were. Had the Nazis gotten the bomb first we would likely be living in the aftermath of a series of attacks from nuclear-tipped V2 rockets.
Look at all the advancements Germany made even while they were losing the war even up until the end. Imagine how big of a juggernaut they'd been if they had started out with the advanced weapons they created during the war, and a leader who would do absolutely anything, and use anything at his disposal to accomplish it too. It's truly scary to me to think what would have happened if Hitler had waited a couple of years or so, and imagine what would have been had Nazi Germany won. If they had taken Britain instead of jacking off with the Blitz IMHO it would have been effectively over especially if they told Japan to 'eff themselves for bringing America into the war.
Doc Safari
06-15-17, 12:52
Look at all the advancements Germany made even while they were losing the war even up until the end. Imagine how big of a juggernaut they'd been if they had started out with the advanced weapons they created during the war, and a leader who would do absolutely anything, and use anything at his disposal to accomplish it too. It's truly scary to me to think what would have happened if Hitler had waited a couple of years or so, and imagine what would have been had Nazi Germany won. If they had taken Britain instead of jacking off with the Blitz IMHO it would have been effectively over especially if they told Japan to 'eff themselves for bringing America into the war.
Hitler may not have had time to wait. I saw a documentary a few years ago and through the use of old film clips, the filmmakers argued that Hitler had Parkinsons or some other disease which caused one of his hands to shake uncontrollably and was going to kill him within a few years. IIRC they theorized that Hitler may have believed he only had until the late 1940's to live.
Averageman
06-15-17, 13:02
My Dad had two Brothers that were much older, both served in WWII.
One came home and worked in heavy equipment, cranes, dozers and backhoes. Started his own company and was a pretty successful guy. When he retired at 70 he went on to be a Hunting and Fishing guide until his 90's.
The older brother a WWII Paratrooper packed up everything he owned, married his HS Sweetheart and went to Alaska. He raised a dozen kids, and started many different and successful business's. He ran a Hunting and Fishing lodge until he passed in his late 70's.
Both of these guys grew up on the edge of Appalachia in the worst part of the Great Depression. We wouldn't define what they experienced as a "Childhood", they worked from the time they were old enough to pull weeds and hoe a garden. They were smart, ambitious and hard working Men.
I miss them both and doubt we will see their like again for a long time.
Hitler may not have had time to wait. I saw a documentary a few years ago and through the use of old film clips, the filmmakers argued that Hitler had Parkinsons or some other disease which caused one of his hands to shake uncontrollably and was going to kill him within a few years. IIRC they theorized that Hitler may have believed he only had until the late 1940's to live.
Talk about derailing a thread, but I'll go there. According to witnesses, he was also an insomniac druggie who had syphilis, and all of those could have caused the tremors. That's just what we know. We also know he was private about his health, so who knows what we don't know about? I'd buy Parkinsons, or any number of other neurological diseases.
Doc Safari
06-15-17, 13:49
Talk about derailing a thread, but I'll go there. According to witnesses, he was also an insomniac druggie who had syphilis, and all of those could have caused the tremors. That's just what we know. We also know he was private about his health, so who knows what we don't know about? I'd buy Parkinsons, or any number of other neurological diseases.
I'm sure all of those were true. He was also heavily into the occult.
(Sounds more and more like Hillary Clinton, but I guess as far as thread hijacking that is, indeed, a bridge too far).
BTW "A Bridge Too Far" was a decent, if not great, World War II movie.
"Saving Private Ryan" is probably the most grittily realistic, and I would be willing to bet anyone who was really there would say that the opening sequence of "Saving Private Ryan" didn't even portray how bad it was.
If I remember the story correctly, SteyrAUG tells about an incident when he was collecting military uniforms. He bought a brand new military jacket off an old lady, and when he got it home he discovered an engagement ring in one of the pockets.
That is one of the saddest WW2 stories I've ever read.
Moose-Knuckle
06-16-17, 04:32
My Dad had two Brothers that were much older, both served in WWII.
One came home and worked in heavy equipment, cranes, dozers and backhoes. Started his own company and was a pretty successful guy. When he retired at 70 he went on to be a Hunting and Fishing guide until his 90's.
The older brother a WWII Paratrooper packed up everything he owned, married his HS Sweetheart and went to Alaska. He raised a dozen kids, and started many different and successful business's. He ran a Hunting and Fishing lodge until he passed in his late 70's.
Both of these guys grew up on the edge of Appalachia in the worst part of the Great Depression. We wouldn't define what they experienced as a "Childhood", they worked from the time they were old enough to pull weeds and hoe a garden. They were smart, ambitious and hard working Men.
I miss them both and doubt we will see their like again for a long time.
My grandfather was 10 when the Great Depression hit, he had six brothers. The only meat they had was what they could hunt, usually rabbit and squirrel. Then in early adult hood they were sent to Europe FOR THE DURATION of the war.
One of my grandfather's brothers landed on Utah beach on D-Day with the 90th ID. Several of this brothers would later become millionaires after the war with successful businesses that they built from the ground up.
Yeah there was something special about that generation.
****ing progressivism began well before their time with a different Roosevelt.
My grandfather graduated high school, then joined the navy and spent 579 days aboard the USS Boston during WWII.
His records show his first 6 months went like this...
Milestones for this sailor
Sailor participated in attacks on the MARCUS ISLANDS 19-20 May and the attack on WAKE ISLAND on 23 May 1944
Sailor participated in the engagement and rout of a major Japanese task force in the waters east of the Philippines during the period 17-21 June 1944, while USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 58.1
Sailor participated in the attacks on GUAM and ROTA ISLANDS (Marianas Group) on 11-13 June, and the attacks on IWO JIMA, CHICHI JIMA, and HAHA JIMA (Bonin Island group) on 15-16 June 1944, while the USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 58.1
Sailor participated in the attacks on PAGAN ISLANDS and IWO JIMA (Bonin Island group) on 23-24 June 1944, while the USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 58.1
Sailor participated in bombardment of IWO JIMA on 4 July 1944 while USS BOSTON WAS A UNIT of Task Group 58.2
Sailor participated in the attacks on GUAM and ROTA during the period 6-20 July 1944, and subsequently in operations in support of the invasion of GUAM during the period 21-22 July 1944, while the USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 58.2
Sailor participated in the attacks on PALAU ISLANDS during the period 25-27 July 1944, while USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 58.2
Sailor participated in the attacks on PALAU ISLANDS during the period 6-8 September 1944, while USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 38.2
Sailor participated in the attacks on CELEBES ISLANDS and the operations in support of the landing on MOROTAI ISLANDS during the period 15-16 September 1944, While the USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 38.1
Sailor participated in the attacks LUZON during the period 21-22 September 1944 and the attacks on the VISAYAN GROUP (Philippine Islands) on 24 September 1944, while the USS Boston was a unit of task group 38.1
Sailor participated in the attacks on NANSEI SHOTO ISLANDS on 10 October 1944, While USS BOSTON was a unit of Task Group 38.1
This is the type of thing I think of when I hear "The Greatest Generation". Because there were COUNTLESS young men like him.
Not saying they haven't existed since, or even now, but I believe the stakes were far greater at the time.
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