Brass 223/ 556 vs Steel 223 for training.

[Wooohah]

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I'm currently going through a bit of this dilemma myself.

I'd like to discuss the pros/ cons between using steel or brass cased ammunition in AR's.
For the purpose of this post, I am using a Troy 16" Carbine.

From my understanding, Steel ammo is considerably cheaper, however it wears down the barrel quicker, is much dirtier in the gun, and has more malfunctions. (Though more malfunctions means more opportunities for training...hmm)
I've never had a single problem with brass, but brass is considerably more expensive. I am saving quite a good amount of money with every 1,000 rounds of steel ammo I purchase.

Apart from wearing down the barrel faster, what other parts does steel tend to cause increased wear on? The money I'm saving on ammunition with steel ammo after a few thousand rounds ends up equating to the cost of a new barrel.
A new barrel purchased every few thousand rounds from the money saved really doesn't sound all that bad.

Are there any other issues I should consider with steel ammunition? I'm not the richest man in the world, and I do like to shoot as much as I can.
I am planning on getting a BCM, DD, LWRC, custom or some sort of "higher end" rifle in the near future, will I be having any issues apart from barrel wear running steel in higher end rifles?

Thank you
(Lets keep this civilized, I'm not trying to say one is better than the other)
(I don't use steel cased ammo in anything my life may depend on, my AR is one of my Home defense guns, I have American Eagle M193 for it)

[tylerw02]

What is the point of purchasing a high-quality AR and feeding it steel?

Higher-end ARs typically have small gas port diameters and are more likely to tuned to run full-power ammunition. You may have difficulty with low-power steel-cased ammo.

Performance-wise, you are handicapping the high-quality rifle with poor-quality steel-cases ammo. Accuracy will suffer, barrel life will suffer, and parts wear faster on that they will need cleaned more. The steel-cased ammo is less reliable.

If you're hoping to save money, over the course of a barrel, yeah, it will oh for itself. Assume you'll wear our three barrels running bi-metal jackets to one to two running brass. Savings is about $60 per thousand. So say you get 10k a barrel running steel with bi-metal jackets, vs 15-20k running quality brass-cases ammo. A quality barrel is $300, assuming you can install it yourself. You're money ahead...but reality, a mid-grade rifle is probably more up your alley if you're looking to save money and not worried about reliability and accuracy.


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[Wooohah]

Well, I figured due to my location, I'm likely not going to be shooting long range much. Maybe the occasional 4-500 Yard shoot. Mainly it'll be closer up, so the slight accuracy loss of steel realistically won't matter as much.
Doing any type of precision shooting, I'd pop in brass. Reliability in terms of jams isn't a concern for me, I'm only going to be using steel for target and training. My life doesn't depend on the quality of the ammunition then.
More jams (as long as they're not blowing up the rifle) equates to more training. If for example SHTF and I encounter a rare jam with my federal M193, I'll already have the muscle memory of quickly clearing it.

Wear is the thing I was concerned about. I know for a fact that the barrel will wear down faster, but what about things like the BCG, trigger, etc? How would cleaning wear them down a lot? I clean my guns after shooting every time anyways, I know steel is dirty so I won't be leaving my BCG caked in carbon.

What I'm saying is the money I save on ammo, I apply towards a new barrel. Even if I end up not saying much money, I'm left with a new barrel.

Gas ports, thanks for bringing that up, I didn't consider that. No good if my rifle won't cycle correctly.

[Clint]

This report sums it up pretty well.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

[Wooohah]

That is a really good read. I've got things to consider further now.

What would cheap reliable brass ammo would you guys suggest? I've shot some perfecta and it was pretty good. Anything else? I'm paying about... $250 shipped for 1,040 rounds of steel cased 223.

[gaijin]

In .223: Wolf Gold, PMC Bronze. In that order.
In 5.56: IMI m193, PMC55 gr. X-Tac.
These are the least expensive, totally reliable range ammo I use.

I know people have good things to say about PPU and others, I have zero experience howeve.

I order through SGAmmo.
They are close- receive orders in two days, and are competitive in pricing.

[Wooohah]

Thanks^ I've got friends who use IMI

[Clint]

The Wolf Gold is pretty good and $296 shipped / case.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-round-case-223-rem-55-grain-fmj-brass-case-non-magnetic-wolf-gold-ar-15-

PMC bronze is the weakest load we test with and not worth it of Gold is available for less.
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-round-case-223-rem-pmc-55-grain-fmj-bt-brass-case-ammo-223a

Wolf steel $220 shipped / case
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-rounds-223-rem-62-grain-fmj-wolf-wpa-steel-case-ammo-made-barnaul

Many good choices these days...
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammo-sale/223-556mm-ammo?sort=round_low

[OrlandoJones]

My experience with steel ammo is simply that my AR rifles chokes on it after about 150 rounds...it gunks up my BCG so badly, I have to field strip, wipe down the BCG and relube it generously. Never have this problem with the commercially loaded brass ammo. I just avoid steel cased stuff in my ARs. I run my ARs hard in training classes often, and burn through a lot of ammo. I'm sure the John Q. Fudd firing off less than a 100 rounds at the range may not have this issue.

AKs are designed for it. ARs? Not so much.

Spend the extra coin on WOLF GOLD...quality brass cased made in Taiwan. Good stuff.

[vicious_cb]

As someone who has shot out a barrel using 100% steel cased ammo, Id say the savings is absolutely worth it. Look at your shooting requirements, for high round count training 100 yards and in steel cased is ammo is perfectly fine.

As for accuracy, again for 100 yards and in 4 moa is plenty accurate. If you are doing real training like offhand and barricade shooting, you will not notice the difference. xm193 is shoots like 1 moa better. I dont get this accuracy obsession with general purpose ammo, too many people shoot off the bench...

As far as cleaning, the cleaning interval is roughly the same between cheap steel case and cheap brass cased ammo, M193 is plenty dirty. It shouldn't be a real concern since it literally takes 10 mins to wipe down the bolt, clean under the extractor and punch the bore with a bore snake every few thousand rounds. *Saw that you were cleaning after every range session, yeah, then it doesnt even matter.

As for reliability, honestly Ive seen more duds with xm193 from various mfgs, bad things like primers blowing out, crooked necks or bullet set back. The dud rate with steel case ammo for me was like 1:3000 rounds and those were only failures to fire, they usually fired after the second strike, nothing like the shit Ive seen with xm193. The more I think about it more I realize xm193 is generally shit ammo, the only benefit is velocity and you can save the brass.

As for wear, I killed my barrel somewhere between 12-13k rounds with medium to high rates to semi-auto fire. A good chromed lined barrel should get you 15-20k under the same conditions. Steel case does not wear any other parts except maybe the extractor. Even then I ran the same bolt, same extractor until the barrel died. The only thing I changed were extractor springs and gas rings.

Looking at the pricing at 20 cents per round of steel case vs 30 cents of brass you can literally buy a whole new AR with all the money you saved.

[vicious_cb]

My experience with steel ammo is simply that my AR chokes on it after about 150 rounds...it gunks up my BCG so badly, I have to field strip, wipe down the BCG and relube it generously. Never have this problem with the commercially loaded brass ammo. I just avoid steel cased stuff in my ARs.

AKs are designed for it. ARs? Not so much.

Spend the extra coin on WOLF GOLD...quality brass cased made in Taiwan. Good stuff.

I think there is something wrong with your AR...no decently made AR should choke after only 150 rounds no matter what ammo you used. Even if you ran it bone dry.