View Full Version : One of those "Help Me Choose" Threads...
BrigandTwoFour
06-21-17, 21:00
Hey guys,
I've been in the market for a new pistol since leaving the military and returning to freedom land (away from California). One of the things I wanted to do was pick up a new pistol to serve as a primary training & competition gun.
My current lineup looks like this:
- FNS-9 (currently in bedside duty, has always been my backup competition pistol)
- Beretta 92A1 (was my primary training/competition pistol for years)
- Springfield 1911A1 Loaded Black Stainless (I don't really shoot it these days...more for sentiment than anything)
I'm trying to stick to 9mm just to reduce logistical load and keep practice costs down. My preferences have drifted towards metal guns, but I'm not opposed to polymer. I dislike trigger safeties like Glocks, much preferring single piece triggers, and I don't particularly care for Glock's grip angle.
Up to this point, I was pretty well set on acquiring a CZ P-01, with the P-09 and P-10c riding as a dark horses on the side. But it seems CZs are near impossible to find these days.
The SIG P320 has risen on my list because I expect it will have a lot of aftermarket support in the coming years (due to the DoD contract). I've always felt rather let down by the lack of support for the 92A1 and FNS.
Other pistols I've considered include the VP9, APX, and PPQ.
So, anyway, long story short...having not been able to shoot any of these (save the PPQ years ago), and only being able to handle a few of them, what input can you guys offer on the decision?
My advice may not be what you want to hear but you need to get ti the range and shoot the guns youre interested in. Ive lost so much money buying guns on someone esles opinion only to sell it later.
I don't know where you'll be going but CZs aren't hard at all to find in my area, and of course are available online. I'm a huge fan of the P-09 and P-10, though they're obviously quite different. Very comfortable grips, relatively straight, clean, and single piece triggers, and soft shooters. The convertibility of the P-09 from safety to decocker is a nice bonus. The P-01 can get seriously impressive with Cajun upgrades if you're looking a non-stock competition gun.
H&K is doing a 4 extra mag special right now if you like the feeling of the VP9 which is a hell of a deal. I haven't shot or even handled the APX yet. PPQ has a great trigger but I don't like the way it shoots to the point I recommend you shoot one if you're considering it.
Go to your local gun store, buy the in stock item, repeat as necessary.
Basically what the rest of us do.
I'd seriously look at the CZ P-07/09.
They have
-DA/SA hammer with decocker
-Metal trigger
-Metal sights
-Standard (non-Glock grip angle)
They are very accurate and have excellent magazines.
The triggers can be worked relatively easily.
The older CZs are good to but seem a bid dated when compared to the latest P series, which are modern and state of the art.
Of the guns you've listed, my favorite is the CZ P09. However, I actually just traded mine for a G19. I couldn't find a holster for it I liked and mag prices were outrageous. Also, mine had trash sights. I decided the pistol wasn't worth the investment in a new platform.
Of your list, my second favorite is the VP9. I actually shot a few uspsa matches with it. It worked well. I ended up buying several because my wife could shoot them well, my friends own them, and frankly, I shoot them well. The paddle release is so much faster using your index finger on your firing hand and you don't have to break your grip. Sights availability is good as it used the same as other HKs. The barrel to slide fit is excellent and it's very accurate. I can shoot most my guns as well as the HK, but the HK is easier.
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gunnerblue
06-21-17, 22:03
I would try a VP9 if I were you. I use one for competition and like it very much. It does have a tigger safety but is not nearly as noticeable as a more traditional style striker-fired mechanism. Indeed, it functions more like a single-action trigger than anything. Mine has a very definite wall and breaks right around 5.5 pounds.
I'd seriously look at the CZ P-07/09.
They have
-DA/SA hammer with decocker
-Metal trigger
-Metal sights
-Standard (non-Glock grip angle)
They are very accurate and have excellent magazines.
The older CZs are good to but seem a bid dated when compared to the latest P series, which are modern and state of the art.
The CZ's shoot nice but I don't know if it's a design but I use the magazine stop to release the slide. On the particular guns the stop is located more forward compared to a glock or m&p or really any other pistol. Not a big deal deal as I just reach up with my left thumb when I regrip. Not slower just training issue. (For those saying slingshot, this works for me).
BrigandTwoFour
06-22-17, 07:00
DirectTo
I don't know where you'll be going but CZs aren't hard at all to find in my area, and of course are available online. I'm a huge fan of the P-09 and P-10, though they're obviously quite different. Very comfortable grips, relatively straight, clean, and single piece triggers, and soft shooters. The convertibility of the P-09 from safety to decocker is a nice bonus. The P-01 can get seriously impressive with Cajun upgrades if you're looking a non-stock competition gun.
H&K is doing a 4 extra mag special right now if you like the feeling of the VP9 which is a hell of a deal. I haven't shot or even handled the APX yet. PPQ has a great trigger but I don't like the way it shoots to the point I recommend you shoot one if you're considering it
I'm in Northern VA, none of the shops (I've called/checked in 10 so far) have any CZs. Even online they seem pretty scarce at the moment, save for places like Gunbroker. I'm really drawn to the P-09 due to the features you mentioned as well as the capacity, but I don't want to commit without handling one.
The VP9 does have a solid following, and its climbing the list.
Clint
I'd seriously look at the CZ P-07/09.
They have
-DA/SA hammer with decocker
-Metal trigger
-Metal sights
-Standard (non-Glock grip angle)
They are very accurate and have excellent magazines.
The triggers can be worked relatively easily.
The older CZs are good to but seem a bid dated when compared to the latest P series, which are modern and state of the art.
Yeah, that's why the P09 had my interest. I was discounting the P07 only because it's so close to the FNS that I already have, and my thinking was the P09 better fit into the service pistol category that I am looking for (to sit along with my Beretta).
It does seem that the VP9 has a strong following. I've handled one before, but not shot it.
What do you all think of the full size Sig P320? I had been considering it because it has good reviews and appears that it will have solid aftermarket support. But information on its performance seems pretty scarce outside of the paid reviewer realm.
What do you all think of the full size Sig P320? I had been considering it because it has good reviews and appears that it will have solid aftermarket support. But information on its performance seems pretty scarce outside of the paid reviewer realm.
I own a 320rx with a gray guns pelt trigger and it is one of my favorite guns to shoot. Boringly reliable and accurate. The fact that I can change out grip sizes (if I could find one) and slide/barrel length is a huge factor. Grip wise I shoot thumbs forward and my thumb is actually resting on the rail on the grip as opposed to my other guns where it actually rests alone the side of the frame. I can't get any higher on my grip but it's not an issue. It actually gives me more leverage to drive the front of the gun down. Almost like agency arms patented "gas pedal" lol!
I'm in Northern VA, none of the shops (I've called/checked in 10 so far) have any CZs.
I assume VA Arms was one of those? I haven't been in about two years, but they always have a great selection.
556BlackRifle
06-22-17, 08:58
It would be hard to go wrong with the CZ or H&K. They are great pistols and if they scratch that itch, they will definitely serve you well. I really like the P320. I have the Compact w/ Sig night sights and Sub Compact grip frame. It is one of the best out of the box shooters I've ever owned. If you live near a rental range, I'd recommend trying the different pistols and seeing what you like and shoot the best. The P320 does have a high bore axis but IMO it's a non-issue. I have encountered no difficulties shooting it and honestly don't even notice any difference because of it. I installed the Apex trigger but honestly, the Sig trigger is just fine and knowing what I know now, I'd be happy with the stock trigger.
Disclaimer: My EDC still remains Glock 19, 26, 43. With many thousands of rounds fired and years of training, they are an extension of my hand(s) and will likely will never be replaced.
Here's a picture of my P320 Compact with the Sub Compact grip frame and 12 round mag inserted. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/SigP320_1_zpsgoyp5znw.jpg
And here's a picture of my first shots. Two 15 round (compact) mags at 15 yards shooting UMC 115gr FMJ.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/P320C-15-Yards-30-rounds-UMC-115gr-FMJ-07-Feb-2017_zpsjiooq7la.jpg
I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP because I have a huge love/hate relationship with Glock. The 320 is looking better and better the more I look into it. Especially the price of an RX one, even if the optic remains questionable.
BrigandTwoFour
06-22-17, 15:08
Honestly, there is something about the P320 that just has my attention. It wasn't what I was looking for, but I could certainly find use for a striker fired .45
I have a p320 carry. I have tried not to like it, but I can't.
I love the grip and trigger. It shoots fine for me, has been reliable. I like being able to put the other grips on it to carry.
I prefer the grip and trigger to my vp9 that I got rid of. I say go for it.
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I rented a p320 compact with irons and am leaning toward an RX. The trigger was great, it points well for me. I could drop the mag without shifting my grip. Like you said, it will be getting a lot of support. I am hoping Sig finally got there sh!t together.
https://www.smga.com/p-126387-sig-p320-elite-dealer-exclusive-with-romeo-1-optic-dawson-blade-fs-nickel-pvd-slide-with-lightning-cuts.aspx?utm_source=SMGA.com&utm_campaign=c00254411e-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_06_21&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fd07762208-c00254411e-362794349&mc_cid=c00254411e&mc_eid=23e2bccbb4
ETA, this is not the regular RX, as there's no rear suppressor sight, but i believe the Romeo has a notch to act as rear sight.
VP9 ftw, but solid advice on trying before buying. Rental guns at the range show wear in an accelerated rate so this can give you a good idea of 'broken in'.
SomeOtherGuy
06-23-17, 16:09
None of those are bad options. For purely range and competition use, I'd go with the CZ P01 (or even a regular CZ75) without hesitation. I would rather not carry one much though.
For carry and likely aftermarket support, the P320 would be a good pick. Based on the chassis + grip frame design of the P320 I expect a LOT of future aftermarket options, probably more like an AR15 than like any other pistol. I expect Magpul or some other polymer wunderkind to introduce a better grip frame any day now, hopefully similar to the X-Five version frame. Farther down the road I would expect aftermarket companies to offer the chassis (FFL part) and the slide/barrel assembly.
BrigandTwoFour
06-23-17, 20:20
I had some updates today. I stopped by my local preferred dealer to handle and test what I could. They didn't have any CZs around (expected), but I did put a critical eye and hand on a PPQ (9mm and .45), VP9, APX, 320 compact, and the new generation of M&P (both 9mm and .45).
Of all of them, I really felt the VP9 fit my hand the best. The PPQ was right next to it as far as ergos go. As much as I like it, though, I'm not sure it's going to do much more than my FNS-9 that I'm already pretty competent with will do. So my eye (and imagination) turned towards the larger .45's.
The PPQ 45 felt amazing in the hand. I now think my decision is between the PPQ 45 and the M&P 45 2.0 (if only HK would make a VP45, it would be the winner).
I know Walther has a $100 rebate on the PPQ, I don't know of the 45 is included in the rebate but it brings the 9mm down to under $400.
Like Wake mentioned if you're in NoVA VA Arms will have the best selection.
I had some updates today. I stopped by my local preferred dealer to handle and test what I could. They didn't have any CZs around (expected), but I did put a critical eye and hand on a PPQ (9mm and .45), VP9, APX, 320 compact, and the new generation of M&P (both 9mm and .45).
Of all of them, I really felt the VP9 fit my hand the best. The PPQ was right next to it as far as ergos go. As much as I like it, though, I'm not sure it's going to do much more than my FNS-9 that I'm already pretty competent with will do. So my eye (and imagination) turned towards the larger .45's.
The PPQ 45 felt amazing in the hand. I now think my decision is between the PPQ 45 and the M&P 45 2.0 (if only HK would make a VP45, it would be the winner).
I would love a VP45, but anymore I don't like spending the cash to shoot it.
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