Female Rangers given special treatment?

[WillBrink]

So the debate continues but even mainstream rags are digging up intel suggests the answer is yes:

Was It Fixed? Army General Told Subordinates: 'A Woman Will Graduate Ranger School,' Sources Say

"...whereas men consistently were held to the strict standards outlined in the Ranger School’s Standing Operating Procedures handbook sources say, the women were allowed lighter duties and exceptions to policy."

Multiple sources told PEOPLE:

• Women were first sent to a special two-week training in January to get them ready for the school, which didn’t start until April 20. Once there they were allowed to repeat the program until they passed – while men were held to a strict pass/fail standard.

• Afterward they spent months in a special platoon at Fort Benning getting, among other things, nutritional counseling and full-time training with a Ranger.

• While in the special platoon they were taken out to the land navigation course – a very tough part of the course that is timed – on a regular basis. The men had to see it for the first time when they went to the school.

• Once in the school they were allowed to repeat key parts – like patrols – while special consideration was not given to the men.

Cont:

http://people.com/celebrity/female-rangers-were-given-special-treatment-sources-say/

[ABNAK]

There was backroom talk and murmurs about it at the time, but everyone was assured that no standards were deviated from and no special treatment given. Since then, as time has gone by, it has become more apparent that the powers-that-be didn't exactly tell the truth. This article only reinforces those doubts.

[TAZ]

Politically motivated occifers and staff lied. Say it isn't so!!!

[ramairthree]

Did the women pass the same course as the men?
Yes.

Were thousands of women screened to find a few hundred to get down to a few dozen candidates to get extra training, preparation, coaching, do overs, recycles, more remedial training, coaching, recovery time, and further do overs in order to get a number of graduates you can count on one hand?
Yes.

It's like the NBA searching for power forwards among 40 something year old 5'11" white guys.
You will eventually end up with a couple that can slam dunk a basketball,
They won't cut it on the court during game time,
But you sure as hell proved some white dudes pushing 50 under six feet tall can slam dunk a basketball and be NBA power forwards.

[Don Robison]

Did the women pass the same course as the men?
Yes.


Actually the answer to that one is no because the men weren't allowed to continue to repeat phases until they passed; so the course was indeed different between the two sexes.

[USMC_Anglico]

Actually the answer to that one is no because the men weren't allowed to continue to repeat phases until they passed; so the course was indeed different between the two sexes.

Wrong. Men are recycled as well during phases. It all depends on the circumstances and the cadre. One of my buddies was recycled 2x through mountain phase before passing and moving on and graduating. There is also a pre-ranger course for candidates run by the NG at Benning.

As far as I know the only advantage (and it's not an advantage) given to the women were that they were afforded multiple re-cycles. I believe one women actually dropped out after re-cycling a few times. Re-cycling is the worst, it's like living groundhog day, but at Ranger school.

Now as to how they were graded on patrols, etc. I don't know, but given the multiple recycles I guess they eventually passed those.

[hdrolling]

Multiple sources told PEOPLE:

• Women were first sent to a special two-week training in January to get them ready for the school, which didn’t start until April 20. Once there they were allowed to repeat the program until they passed – while men were held to a strict pass/fail standard.

Every unit I ever served in had a pre-Ranger course that had to be passed before the unit would pay to send the soldier to "Ranger School". I wouldn't call that special treatment.

• Afterward they spent months in a special platoon at Fort Benning getting, among other things, nutritional counseling

This is the same training and classes that combat arms MOS's (Men) get and do daily the entire time their enlisted, taking females from soft skill MOS's and giving them a couple months training on skills that are not part of their jobs sounds fair to me.


and full-time training with a Ranger.

Being trained full time by a Ranger? That doesn't explain much ,was it a Ranger school instructor, a ranger battalion soldier or just someone who has passed Ranger school? Ranger Battalion and the "Ranger School" are very different things.

• While in the special platoon they were taken out to the land navigation course – a very tough part of the course that is timed – on a regular basis. The men had to see it for the first time when they went to the school.

If these students had access to the actual land nav course for Ranger school I would be very surprised, there are quite a few on FT Benning and their open to any unit or school to use. Also there are some many points on a land nav course I don't think these female students were taken to each one so many times that they would know just where to go. Also if your trained properly Land nav is easy.


Being Infantry I have been to leadership development courses that are co ed and seen females get special treatment, mostly just for training and not testing.

All of this was going to happen sooner or latter, time will tell if it was time or not.

[Don Robison]

Wrong. Men are recycled as well during phases. It all depends on the circumstances and the cadre. One of my buddies was recycled 2x through mountain phase before passing and moving on and graduating. There is also a pre-ranger course for candidates run by the NG at Benning.

As far as I know the only advantage (and it's not an advantage) given to the women were that they were afforded multiple re-cycles. I believe one women actually dropped out after re-cycling a few times. Re-cycling is the worst, it's like living groundhog day, but at Ranger school.

Now as to how they were graded on patrols, etc. I don't know, but given the multiple recycles I guess they eventually passed those.

You're correct, they are recycled, they are not recycled as many times as it takes to pass. Two times a phase is the norm coming from former and current Ranger instructors I know who work Florida phase and Ranger school grads I work with. The NG course is two weeks, not 3+ months.

[ramairthree]

I assure you,
The special duty time given to prepare, extra training and coaching giving in addition to pre Ranger, and allotment for recovery / do overs,
Is not something any man ever has been given to become a ranger school graduate.

It just is what it is.

The number of 5'10 155 pound 22 year old women who "runs triathlons", "is a cross Fitter!", or "always maxes her PT test" that can put on an 85 pound ruck and keep up with the mean/average 5'10" 22 year old Infantryman in the 82nd that dips or smokes, binge drinks at every opportunity, and whose only good workout besides unit PT is pushing the pendulous titties of a skanky 250 pound chick riding him out of his face so he can breath,
Is about one in ten.

My sense of fairness says, if they can meet the standards, it should be open to anyone.

My common sense say, it's not impossible to find women that could meet the requirements to be Infantry in Ranger Bn, an 18 series, SEAL, etc. But that it sure is a stupid, inefficient, ridiculous way of doing things.

My experience of nearly three decades in the military says, mixed units or all male units having access to females has made for lots of drama and complication. I could type for hours. The effectiveness and lack of complications of an element of a bunch of straight guys is as good as it gets for a leader.

[26 Inf]

My common sense say, it's not impossible to find women that could meet the requirements to be Infantry in Ranger Bn, an 18 series, SEAL, etc. But that it sure is a stupid, inefficient, ridiculous way of doing things.

My experience of nearly three decades in the military says, mixed units or all male units having access to females has made for lots of drama and complication. I could type for hours. The effectiveness and lack of complications of an element of a bunch of straight guys is as good as it gets for a leader.

There you go. Mic drop.

[Moose-Knuckle]

You know I watched G.I. Jane for the second time yesterday. The film is twenty years old this year, really predicted all of this and goes into the behind the scenes political shenanigans of such things.

For those that haven not or won't watch it, a feminist female Democrat Senator from TX pushes her grand idea of equality and wants female SOF personnel. Said female candidate discovers while at BUDS that she has been given a "gender norming" time standard per evolution. Protests to the Master Chief who sends her packing, then protests to the CO who arranges her to be judged on the same standards as the men. All that and survives Hell Week just to have the same female Senator sell her out and deep six her to prevent the closing of five bases in her state which will cost her votes in the next election.

For a twenty year old film it got a lot of things right.

[26 Inf]

You know I watched G.I. Jane for the second time yesterday. The film is twenty years old this year, really predicted all of this and goes into the behind the scenes political shenanigans of such things.

For those that haven not or won't watch it, a feminist female Democrat Senator from TX pushes her grand idea of equality and wants female SOF personnel. Said female candidate discovers while at BUDS that she has been given a "gender norming" time standard per evolution. Protests to the Master Chief who sends her packing, then protests to the CO who arranges her to be judged on the same standards as the men. All that and survives Hell Week just to have the same female Senator sell her out and deep six her to prevent the closing of five bases in her state which will cost her votes in the next election.

For a twenty year old film it got a lot of things right.

So what's the message - don't trust Texans?

I've posted about this book before: Women in the Military: Flirting With Disaster by Brian Mitchell. All-in-all it is pretty hoo hum, what I found most interesting was the portion of the book that describes how the DoD intended to approach the All Volunteer Army after VN. The plan was to open all but direct combat fields to everyone based on job task analysis. The Congresswomen’s Caucus put an end to that little endeavor, because you know, if little Katy wants to be a tracked vehicle mechanic, one of the men can help her lift the heavy stuff. Of course that also means that Pee Wee, the 130 pound guy, gets to do the same thing.

Task. Conditions. Standards. Meet them without drama and drive on, regardless of gender.

[Campbell]

I assure you,
The special duty time given to prepare, extra training and coaching giving in addition to pre Ranger, and allotment for recovery / do overs,
Is not something any man ever has been given to become a ranger school graduate.

It just is what it is.

The number of 5'10 155 pound 22 year old women who "runs triathlons", "is a cross Fitter!", or "always maxes her PT test" that can put on an 85 pound ruck and keep up with the mean/average 5'10" 22 year old Infantryman in the 82nd that dips or smokes, binge drinks at every opportunity, and whose only good workout besides unit PT is pushing the pendulous titties of a skanky 250 pound chick riding him out of his face so he can breath,
Is about one in ten.

My sense of fairness says, if they can meet the standards, it should be open to anyone.

My common sense say, it's not impossible to find women that could meet the requirements to be Infantry in Ranger Bn, an 18 series, SEAL, etc. But that it sure is a stupid, inefficient, ridiculous way of doing things.

My experience of nearly three decades in the military says, mixed units or all male units having access to females has made for lots of drama and complication. I could type for hours. The effectiveness and lack of complications of an element of a bunch of straight guys is as good as it gets for a leader.

Yep, that's it... middle paragraph gave me a good laugh-

[ndmiller]

I'm just laughing that the link comes from people magazine. Never thought I'd see that on this site.

[Moose-Knuckle]

So what's the message - don't trust Texans?

I fail to see how your quip contributes to the topic at hand.

[C-grunt]

Has anyone ever been able to confirm or deny that they females were not allowed to be peer voted out?

[26 Inf]

I fail to see how your quip contributes to the topic at hand.

Sorry, probably should have put this :jester:

I thought the more detailed paragraph following was pretty much echoing what you said and illuminating that the problem has been with us for a long while.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Sorry, probably should have put this :jester:

I thought the more detailed paragraph following was pretty much echoing what you said and illuminating that the problem has been with us for a long while.

Ah, gottcha.

Yes the problem, err issue has been with us for some time and doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon.