View Full Version : The story of my overgassed DD MK18 & DD CS
I purchased a Daniel Defense complete MK18 upper in December 2012, as you know these uppers are extremely overgassed, per DD they were ported at .082".
I sent emails asking DD if there was anything they can do as my barrel was so overgassed, I hated to shoot it. I would send an email once a year and got a standard response that there was nothing we can do.
Until recently I heard (mostly here on M4C) that they fixed their gas ports size and are replacing the older barrels with the new smaller ported barrels.
I sent a new email at the end of may, and got a new response, and they stated they would fix it with a barrel with a port size of .072.
I sent them my upper back, and they covered the shipping, which I didn't ask for or expect them to do. They told me it would be a 10 to 14 business days for them to send it back. On day 10 I received the shipment notification.
I shipped it in the standard cardboard box that the uppers (used to?) ship in. I didn't get that cardboard box back, what I got instead was a new hard case.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/0fece44651c2ee3e1ff2cfaef532cfcf.jpgthey also included a new DD mag, and a vinyl decal.
I opened the package also to find that they replaced my dust cover with a new DD polymer dust cover, they also sent my old one back with it. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/71475fe8f6e82abc3fe653c5672a41e3.jpg
Now that I was excited about all that, time to see about the barrel, I tore the upper apart and got the best measurements that I could. The best I could gauge is a gas port of .073-.074 ish, which isn't far off from their reported .072.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/f2f6aa6a1229e051537681db40d09e3b.jpg Ill chuck that to human error and agree with the .072 gas port size. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/f5ddcd519b41c3d2a4e57d7a4aee61f6.jpg
They also replaced the gas block, which was more than I asked for and more than I expected.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/5a9dc1bdfda3e15cd4001681069ae4ee.jpg
All in all it seems that Daniel Defense did me a solid, and went over and beyond what I expected, thank you to Dana B for helping me out this time, and a even bigger thanks to DD for standing behind their products and customers.
Tomorrow I'll take it to the range and see how it goes.
Errors brought to you via autocorrect.
Dang they really went overboard. That's some good CS right there.
I'm curios to hear your feedback on how it shoots compared to before.
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I bought my mk18 upper at the same time you did and have had similar issues. I'll see if they can fix mine as well.
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I haven't had a single issue with my DD but I'm glad to hear they take care of their customers years later, very surprised about them sending a mag and replacing the dust cover.
Awesome service after the sale is what separates the best from mere assemblers.
Whomever spec'd the port at .082 in the first place should be shot in the face. That is RIDICULOUSLY over sized. A 10.5 will run fine 10 thousandths smaller.
I have had a similar experience recently. A good friend of mine purchased a complete Mk18 pistol from DD last year. I purchased a Mk18 complete upper receiver from them at the beginning of June. I noticed a huge difference in gas to the face, and ejection. Once I read this thread, it all made sense. My friend has never had issues with reliability, but you can tell a huge difference when shooting both suppressed and un-suppressed.
DD customer service is top notch, and in my experience, they go way beyond the call of duty to get their customers taken care of!
Whomever spec'd the port at .082 in the first place should be shot in the face. That is RIDICULOUSLY over sized. A 10.5 will run fine 10 thousandths smaller.
Yea, even at the .072 still bigger than I want but better then .081-2.
I'd Iove getting a proper .070 DD barrel.
bamashooter
07-01-17, 14:57
Now that's exceptional service. Congrats to both you and Daniel Defense.
Well considering it's almost Crane spec, and considering it's designed to run suppressed and unsuppressed it's probably a good thing.
Yea, even at the .072 still bigger than I want but better then .081-2.
I'd Iove getting a proper .070 DD barrel.
Well considering it's almost Crane spec, and considering it's designed to run suppressed and unsuppressed it's probably a good thing.
For sure, I'll take this over the previous size any day.
Well I got it to the range today, and got everything zeroed again.
I would call it a night and day difference, but it was much more drastic than that.
It really felt like a new gun, with the same Springco Blue, and H2 buffer. It shot amazingly different, it's no longer a rifle I hate, it's now the original rifle I wanted. It honestly felt better than my BCM 11.5 with a Geissele Super 42 buffer system in a H3 configuration.
If this is how all the new made MK18s ship, it's definitely worth the purchase.
When did they change the gas port? I'd like to buy one but I want to make sure I get the smaller port.
KITTEN_FRENZY
07-07-17, 17:48
Well I got it to the range today, and got everything zeroed again.
I would call it a night and day difference, but it was much more drastic than that.
It really felt like a new gun, with the same Springco Blue, and H2 buffer. It shot amazingly different, it's no longer a rifle I hate, it's now the original rifle I wanted. It honestly felt better than my BCM 11.5 with a Geissele Super 42 buffer system in a H3 configuration.
If this is how all the new made MK18s ship, it's definitely worth the purchase.
That's great to hear. I was on the market for a 10.3 recently and it took me forever to find one that was 0.070 with FSB (ended up with an Andro/Ballistic Advantage). I can't believe they hooked you up as much as they did. Damn good CS.
It is good to hear that they can remedy this. The oversized ports with all their issues can be used ok tossing crap out the bore for some training scenarios on a budget, but not so much for some possible serious uses.
It is good to hear that they can remedy this. The oversized ports with all their issues can be used ok tossing crap out the bore for some training scenarios on a budget, but not so much for some possible serious uses.
Even slinging crappy 55 gr ammo sucks if your AR bucks like an AK 47. I've got an Aero precision 10.5 with an .080 port that I'd planned to run like you say. But it just never ended up getting shot. So I choked it down with an insert. .069" I think.
To each there own for their own circumstances. The oversized port does conflict with some others for serious offerings.
That is a solid for DD. I think my DD is old school and gassed properly. Very impressive they hooked you up.
WickedWillis
07-18-17, 15:28
Incredible customer service from DD. Glad they took care of you when they had zero obligation to do so.
It really felt like a new gun, with the same Springco Blue, and H2 buffer. It shot amazingly different.
Other than less gas to face, do you mean there were other improvements in the carbine's performance? I have 2 DD Mk 18s with the oversized ports, but with Surefire SOCOM suppressors, there are zero gas blowback problems with mil-spec ammo. So I was thinking there was no reason to swap mine for the smaller port size... though I have heard there may be reduced recoil or other benefits in doing so.
So what other benefits, if any, did you notice? And would you consider those benefits great enough to be worth the hassle / risk of swapping parts for a smaller port size in a gun where overgassing is not an issue?
Please, no offense, but how do you determine over gassing? Just a question.
Please, no offense, but how do you determine over gassing? Just a question.
Enough gas blows back in your face that it's irritating to breathe or stings your eyes.
Would you be open to the option that it may include more than that?
Would you be open to the option that it may include more than that?
Sure, with 3 others being (1) excessive fouling (more of a pain to clean & higher risk of malfunctions if hundreds of rounds are fired w/o cleaning), (2) increased recoil and (3) more rapid parts wear over time. But I don't think these things are what most people are talking about in this thread. It's gas in the face that people complain about at the range.
While I can certainly agree that "gas to the face" can be a point. I don't think that aspect is all encompassing for all users. If gas to the face is the major point of this thread, then I bow out.
I was looking into other characteristics.
While I can certainly agree that "gas to the face" can be a point. I don't think that aspect is all encompassing for all users. If gas to the face is the major point of this thread, then I bow out.
I was looking into other characteristics.
Over gassing will chew the hell out of your brass. I like to reload and don't like to mistreat my brass unnecessarily.
While I can certainly agree that "gas to the face" can be a point. I don't think that aspect is all encompassing for all users. If gas to the face is the major point of this thread, then I bow out.
I was looking into other characteristics.
This is probably an appropriate thread to voice those other characteristics / concerns. While gas to face is what I hear complaints about in most cases, there are multiple additional potential problems, and most posters in this thread have not specified what they meant by overgassed.
So my guess what they mean is just a guess (no reply yet to my post above asking the OP this exact question).
We've never choked a port down for face gas. It's always to smooth the bolt speed for reliability.
We could drift this conversation and look into what possible over gassing is or could be? It's probably a better idea to look into those as a topic itself though.
I called DD today and the warranty person said he was aware of this thread, as others had called, and they were all (at DD) wondering what we were talking about. Said they had always been willing to help customers however they possibly could, but there was no official effort to get all these barrels back for replacement. Did say he'd replace my 2 if I wanted.
I asked him without gas to face problems, would I be getting greater reliability / less recoil / other advantages to any non-trivial extent if I had them decrease the port size. His answer was no to everything - which could have been what he was told to say by corporate DD - as they just hadn't seen any systematic problems with the larger port size, over years of selling countless thousands. But they'd happily replace mine if it tickled my fancy. And no particular reason they're making them with smaller gas ports now.
Good customer service I guess, but I doubt I'm getting the full story from them...
We've never choked a port down for face gas. It's always to smooth the bolt speed for reliability.
Wouldn't a heavy enough buffer / spring accomplish the same thing?
That's not really always the better place to be in with an oversized base port
I called DD today and the warranty person said he was aware of this thread, as others had called, and they were all (at DD) wondering what we were talking about. Said they had always been willing to help customers however they possibly could, but there was no official effort to get all these barrels back for replacement. Did say he'd replace my 2 if I wanted.
I asked him without gas to face problems, would I be getting greater reliability / less recoil / other advantages to any non-trivial extent if I had them decrease the port size. His answer was no to everything - which could have been what he was told to say by corporate DD - as they just hadn't seen any systematic problems with the larger port size, over years of selling countless thousands. But they'd happily replace mine if it tickled my fancy. And no particular reason they're making them with smaller gas ports now.
Good customer service I guess, but I doubt I'm getting the full story from them...
He most likely wouldn't know to begin with.
So what other benefits, if any, did you notice? And would you consider those benefits great enough to be worth the hassle / risk of swapping parts for a smaller port size in a gun where overgassing is not an issue?
The Recoil impulse is now manageable, it's super pleasant to shoot where before I hated it. I've shot slugs out of shotguns that were more pleasant than this over gassed MK18.
my brass is now deflecting to my 4 o'clock where before it was to my 1 o'clock.
Off the recoil management alone it was definitely worth it. Over gassing also wears the Gasport in the barrel itself will start erode from the inside out. A properly gassed gun will also provide longevity of the parts and the gun.
I played with all the buffer and spring combos you could imagine nothing helped this gun only the new barrel did, I have been waiting for Grant to get some of the Colt 10.3 inch barrels in so I can replace it but Daniel Defense finally agreed.
I'm sure if I shot cheap ammo it wouldn't have made a difference but I don't shoot wolf or Tula just M193, M855, and Black Hills 77.
SBRs are a different beast and if they don't shoot right they suck. I hated my MK18 before with the DD birdcage, and now it shoots softer than my BCM 11.5 with the BCM comp.
Just sent in one of my Mk 18s to get the 0.072" ported barrel. My question is, what is the reason / how important is it to have them install the replacement Mk 12 gas block? I have no knowledge of this and do not know whether they must do this, or whether I should insist they do.
Just sent in one of my Mk 18s to get the 0.072" ported barrel. My question is, what is the reason / how important is it to have them install the replacement Mk 12 gas block? I have no knowledge of this and do not know whether they must do this, or whether I should insist they do.
Just me, but I wouldn't worry about it.
I do not want to air any dirty laundry, but it seems that some of you guys are getting better customer service than I am. I have emailed DD several times and initially got a great response asking for my address to get the RMA info processed. Since my response to the customer service agent that caught my ticket, I have had zero feedback from DD. I have emailed and called the service dept contact repeatedly with no response. I understand that some of my correspondence fell over the week long shutdown for the 4th of July holiday for the company and feel I have given them ample time to respond and even re-sent the info requested to the 'general' service email address with the forwarded email from the DD rep.
At this point, I am asking for anyone's contact info at DD that you guys have successfully dealt with on the MK18 barrel replacement due to gas port sizing. Please PM with info. Much appreciated!!
I am not bashing DD, I understand they have a fine reputation for customer service - I realize my service request may have gotten lost in the shuffle. But after waiting for almost 2 months to start the RMA process I am looking to our community for a known contact that I can continue working with the vendor to come to an agreeable outcome.
Thanks All
I do not want to air any dirty laundry, but it seems that some of you guys are getting better customer service than I am. I have emailed DD several times and initially got a great response asking for my address to get the RMA info processed. Since my response to the customer service agent that caught my ticket, I have had zero feedback from DD. I have emailed and called the service dept contact repeatedly with no response. I understand that some of my correspondence fell over the week long shutdown for the 4th of July holiday for the company and feel I have given them ample time to respond and even re-sent the info requested to the 'general' service email address with the forwarded email from the DD rep.
At this point, I am asking for anyone's contact info at DD that you guys have successfully dealt with on the MK18 barrel replacement due to gas port sizing. Please PM with info. Much appreciated!!
I am not bashing DD, I understand they have a fine reputation for customer service - I realize my service request may have gotten lost in the shuffle. But after waiting for almost 2 months to start the RMA process I am looking to our community for a known contact that I can continue working with the vendor to come to an agreeable outcome.
Thanks All
PM sent.
Thanks JulyAZ, appreciate the PM.
jackblack73
07-30-17, 14:13
I do not want to air any dirty laundry, but it seems that some of you guys are getting better customer service than I am. I have emailed DD several times and initially got a great response asking for my address to get the RMA info processed. Since my response to the customer service agent that caught my ticket, I have had zero feedback from DD. I have emailed and called the service dept contact repeatedly with no response. I understand that some of my correspondence fell over the week long shutdown for the 4th of July holiday for the company and feel I have given them ample time to respond and even re-sent the info requested to the 'general' service email address with the forwarded email from the DD rep.
At this point, I am asking for anyone's contact info at DD that you guys have successfully dealt with on the MK18 barrel replacement due to gas port sizing. Please PM with info. Much appreciated!!
I am not bashing DD, I understand they have a fine reputation for customer service - I realize my service request may have gotten lost in the shuffle. But after waiting for almost 2 months to start the RMA process I am looking to our community for a known contact that I can continue working with the vendor to come to an agreeable outcome.
Thanks All
Honestly, when I first read the OP's post, my first thought was I'd rather DD give the OP fewer freebies and a bit more realistic customer service. I'd rather they save some money and ensure everyone that wanted a replacement barrel got one, instead of going overboard with a few and neglecting others.
Is this issue exclusive to DD's Mk18s of a few years ago, or did overgassing occur in other models?
ClearedHot
08-01-17, 22:26
I'm also trying to get my Mk18 upper sent in to DD, not just because it's overgassed but because the barrel itself isn't centered in the rail. I'm surprised they shipped the upper out like that.
I'm also trying to get my Mk18 upper sent in to DD, not just because it's overgassed but because the barrel itself isn't centered in the rail. I'm surprised they shipped the upper out like that.
Can you post pics?
ClearedHot
08-02-17, 00:32
DD resolved issue
Op - I'm glad you received the response you did. Here is what I received today when I asked about my upper:
"
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense and for your purchase.
We have made an inline change to the gas port diameter on all 5.56 10.3 barrels manufactured. This change was effective on all barrels manufactured after June 2017. While we do back our products with a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee we are not offering a barrel exchange for the barrels manufactured before this inline change. As always, all of our products are backed by our Lifetime Warranty. If you are having any malfunctions or failures, we will be happy to get the product back in house free of charge for an evaluation then make the necessary repairs to get the product running as it should."
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I finally got in touch with my initial service rep and have the RMA info and will be dropping the upper off at UPS this weekend. I will update with the response once I get the upper back. Do not want to speculate, but the response given to Dcr5595 is less than encouraging.
Op - I'm glad you received the response you did. Here is what I received today when I asked about my upper:
"
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense and for your purchase.
We have made an inline change to the gas port diameter on all 5.56 10.3 barrels manufactured. This change was effective on all barrels manufactured after June 2017. While we do back our products with a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee we are not offering a barrel exchange for the barrels manufactured before this inline change. As always, all of our products are backed by our Lifetime Warranty. If you are having any malfunctions or failures, we will be happy to get the product back in house free of charge for an evaluation then make the necessary repairs to get the product running as it should."
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For good/ bad/ or indifferent, this response was mostly warranted by them. Why would they choose to absorb the cost to replace all of them versus a lower cost to replace the ones that troubled them the most. Most wouldn't understand the source requirement anyways.
Gotta love warranties, use any excuse to get out of fixing their own mistake. Too many people start sending in MK18 bbls and poof! DD weasles out of it. Lol typical.
However, if you read the last line there is a way to get a replacement.
It's always been a double edged sword between manufactures and consumers as far as something like this goes. The problem has been in finding the fine line that divides them properly for for just cause(s).
Daniel defense called today asking if I'd like to do an RMA so we will see what happens. No matter what the outcome they have been good from a warranty perspective the few times I have had issues.
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ClearedHot
08-14-17, 13:53
Sent in my upper as well. Guess we'll wait and see how they handle it from here.
vicious_cb
08-14-17, 23:26
Maybe if I keep complaining to their CS about gas ports they fix all their other overgassed barrels.
I just heard that I did get a new barrel and my upper will be back tomorrow. The service rep did say that they are fielding a lot of requests of a similar nature right now.
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Things like this are why I'll always buy from the nice, higher end manufacturers.
Is there a serial number range to look for? How can we tell when the gun was made?
Is there a serial number range to look for? How can we tell when the gun was made?
Not sure this helps you but my upper was assembled by them in Q1 2013.
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Jwknutson17
09-11-17, 21:54
Recently received a few barrels. Can't find my pin gauges at the moment but my 9/128 drill bit doesn't fit. It may with slight pressure but not going to press anything into the port. Going to say between .069 and .070 on these two. I'm ok with that!!
Jwknutson17
09-11-17, 22:03
Not sure this helps you but my upper was assembled by them in Q1 2013.
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I also had one from 2012 and 2013. No idea of month or specifics beyond year.
Are people running these with FHs or MBs if shooting suppressed about 50%?
After several delays, both in getting my RMA number, then on my part - having a 16 month old, busy work schedule, and a UPS facility that appartly works bankers' hours, and finally the temporary closure of DD due to the hurricane I can say that mk18 upper will be heading back to me tomorrow!
Spoke with a very helpful CS rep who looked up my ticket and let me know that the barrel was replaced along with a new gas block and new bolt carrier as well. When I asked why the bolt carrier he said that it was most likely due to the armorer's finding a gas leak.
I was also informed that the new barrel has the smaller .070 gas port.
Can't wait to get the upper back and see how it compares to my SIONICS 11.5 RGP setup with the revised porting.
Did they go with exact .070"? I saw they mentioned .072" recently.
I was quoted .071 from CS, but I haven't measured yet. Trying to get some time to pull off the gas block after I grab a set of pin gauges from a friend. I'll post up to verify.
UCLAfanBrian
10-09-17, 10:13
This makes me feel a little better about my recent purchase but I will call customer service to verify.
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