A cheap(ish)? SIG P226 old school German made...

[TED]

AIM has P226 LEO trade ins for around $340. Problem is they are .40.

The beech block is pinned in place. So does that mean I could easily, readibly, or affordably replace the breech block with a 9mm one?

Then drop a 9mm barrel in and be good to go (may an ejector change as well)?

Worth the trouble or no?

TED

[RHINOWSO]

All 40/357 SIGs are machined out of stainless steel and do not have pinned breech blocks.

You could buy an aftermarket 9MM conversion barrel for them and some users have just dropped in a SIG OEM 9MM barrel and had it 'work', but I wouldn't trust it.

Juice is not remotely worth he squeeze IMO.

[NongShim]

All 40/357 SIGs are machined out of stainless steel and do not have pinned breech blocks.

You could buy an aftermarket 9MM conversion barrel for them and some users have just dropped in a SIG OEM 9MM barrel and had it 'work', but I wouldn't trust it.

Juice is not remotely worth he squeeze IMO.

The old German Sig P22X series slides are stamped with a roll-pinned on breach block and welded front end.

OP, I'm not sure on cost of parts, but your idea should work. Unsure of cost though.

[SomeOtherGuy]

All 40/357 SIGs are machined out of stainless steel and do not have pinned breech blocks.


The old German Sig P22X series slides are stamped with a roll-pinned on breach block and welded front end.

From what I've read the .40 S&W has the one piece milled slide because the stamped slide + breech block wasn't durable enough for the harder recoil of the cartridge. In comparison the 9mm original style is supposed to last a very long time.

I have a 1989-produced 9mm P226 with the stamped slide, still going strong - in fact pretty much like new, despite obvious holster wear. I'm not the first owner!

[26 Inf]

The ones I saw in the pictures on AIM had stainless slides - they all had solid firing pin retention pins versus coiled roll pins on the stamped slides. Based on that they wouldn't have removable breech blocks.

BarStos are mostly drop in, although in some cases a little fitting may be required. The low dollar option is the EFK Fire Dragon.

BTW - did you notice those were Double-Action Kellerman (DAK) models? I like them, but many don't.

[RHINOWSO]

The old German Sig P22X series slides are stamped with a roll-pinned on breach block and welded front end.

OP, I'm not sure on cost of parts, but your idea should work. Unsure of cost though.
You are correct on the era - P220 (45 & 9MM), P225 (9MM), P226 (9MM) and P228s (9MM) have pinned breech blocks as described

But with the advent of the P229 in 40 and 357 (later 9MM), they went to a single piece stainless steel slide.

This continued with the P239 and later with the P226 as well to accommodate 40 and 357 rounds (although the change also included 9MM models). The P220 also followed along as well.

The picture from Aimsurplus clearly shows the "stainless" rollmark to show the difference (although this has been dropped since all current US production SIGs have a stainless slide)

46391

Additionally those P226s are either DAO or DAK, since they lack a decocker.

[TED]

Well, I learn something new everyday!!

TED

[NongShim]

You are correct on the era - P220 (45 & 9MM), P225 (9MM), P226 (9MM) and P228s (9MM) have pinned breech blocks as described

But with the advent of the P229 in 40 and 357 (later 9MM), they went to a single piece stainless steel slide.

This continued with the P239 and later with the P226 as well to accommodate 40 and 357 rounds (although the change also included 9MM models). The P220 also followed along as well.

The picture from Aimsurplus clearly shows the "stainless" rollmark to show the difference (although this has been dropped since all current US production SIGs have a stainless slide)

46391

Additionally those P226s are either DAO or DAK, since they lack a decocker.

Very interesting. I had only ever messed with 9/45 guns from that era so I never saw a .40 made in that time frame. Only .40 guns I've ever seen were from the era of everything being stainless. Sure do learn new things all the time.

[RHINOWSO]

Yeah, I have owned both kinds, having gotten my first in the mid-90s; a P220 in 45, German made with the folded slide / pinned breech block. Also flying in the Navy we carried P228 / M11s. From the mid-90s through early 2000s you could still find some of each for the P220 (45) and P226 (9MM), and even recently if you wanted could import folded slide P226s from Germany. The Stainless markings throw some people, as they don't have them anymore and the pin in the stainless slide is easily confused for the roll pined breech block models, but looking from the top of the pistols its easy to see the breech block or solid slide.

Back OT, I've seen these LEO trade ins for awhile and my friends (we have an FFL) always say if they were 9MM it would be work buying and converting to DA/SA (not too pricey) but in 40 there is just no appeal these days. They have been steadily dropping on the distributor side, but I'd rather get a G23 instead, a much easier 9MM conversion. Then again I have one of those I scored for $319 shipped and aside from strip, clean, and reassemble, it just sits in the safe as I have G19s I shoot. I'm just not a 40 guy but it's nice in case 9MM ever becomes hard to find I could easily swap my G19 for the G23 and move out.

[Dionysusigma]

I've seen these LEO trade ins for awhile and my friends (we have an FFL) always say if they were 9MM it would be work buying and converting to DA/SA (not too pricey)

After making a list of the parts that would have to be swapped out to get it back to normal, I came up with a figure of ~$200ish. In my personal opinion, not worth it.

And even then it's still in a caliber I neither use nor stock, so from my perspective it's not even a consideration.

I'd still love to have a folded P226 DA/SA in 9mm, though.

[26 Inf]

After making a list of the parts that would have to be swapped out to get it back to normal, I came up with a figure of ~$200ish. In my personal opinion, not worth it.

And even then it's still in a caliber I neither use nor stock, so from my perspective it's not even a consideration.

I'd still love to have a folded P226 DA/SA in 9mm, though.

Have you ever shot the DAK's?

It may be that I grew up on revolvers, but they are my second favorite true DAO auto pistol, right behind some DAO Beretta's that a local agency had - man I liked them.

I understand not wanting to mix action types, but they are nice IMO.

[Dionysusigma]

I have, and it was so unintuitive that I never wanted to try it again. It honestly felt like the pistol was making me regret pulling the trigger in the first place.

For what it's worth, though, I've been trained to "ride the trigger reset." The DAK system doesn't work with that kind of mindset - that's why they're not for me. The Sig SRT setup, though, is a definite plus, in my opinion.

[ramairthree]

I am not saying DAO is useless.

It can be perfectly fine for moderate user home defense, carry, etc.

But even on guns with very good DAO,
If you get to a point where you are pushing a gun decently fast,
You will find the very long reset is a limiting factor.

Also,
Good point about height of the RDS raising the learning curve vs shorter RDS.

[26 Inf]

I have, and it was so unintuitive that I never wanted to try it again. It honestly felt like the pistol was making me regret pulling the trigger in the first place.

For what it's worth, though, I've been trained to "ride the trigger reset." The DAK system doesn't work with that kind of mindset - that's why they're not for me. The Sig SRT setup, though, is a definite plus, in my opinion.

Yes, I could see how that would be a problem, my experience is a little different.

I think because of growing up on the revolver, then transitioning to the DA/SA while still shooting and teaching revolver, then about 5 years of DA/SA, revolver, and Glock (only striker fired LE used for years) before we finally dropped revolver completely in 2001.

I really think that is the reason I rarely short stroke anything. Thinking about it, I wonder if the mind registers the grip of the pistol/revolver as you draw, and shifts to the appropriate action?

[HKGuns]

40 kills that one for me, too bad as I would snag one if it wasn't in 40.

[ramairthree]

I had never bought 40 until 5 years ago or
Just some great models come up in it for a steal

[MountainRaven]

I am not saying DAO is useless.

It can be perfectly fine for moderate user home defense, carry, etc.

But even on guns with very good DAO,
If you get to a point where you are pushing a gun decently fast,
You will find the very long reset is a limiting factor.

Also,
Good point about height of the RDS raising the learning curve vs shorter RDS.

Jerry Miculek doesn't seem to find that to be the case.

[El Pistolero]

I'm not a fan of the .40 S&W either, but I picked up an SP2022 in .40 because I think it's a good idea to have a .40 in the collection to take advantage of the availability of .40 ammo should there be a panic on more desirable calibers like 9mm or .45 ACP in the future.

If anyone ever wanted a .40, now is the time to get one. Many of you are poo-pooing the .40, but remember how the SIG P6 was looked down on by SIG purists when they were imported for $250 many years ago? The cheap .40s will dry up just the same.

[signal4l]

I would look at one of these before I tried to convert a .40 to 9mm

https://www.iammo.com/pre-owned-west-german-sig-sauer-p226-9mm-15-round-semi-automatic-pistol.html

[26 Inf]

I would look at one of these before I tried to convert a .40 to 9mm

https://www.iammo.com/pre-owned-west-german-sig-sauer-p226-9mm-15-round-semi-automatic-pistol.html

I was about to jump at 499.00, went to put it in the cart and had to select grade - grade D is 499.00 -

D - For shooting enjoyment

Excessive finish wear throughout
Significant corrosion
Substantial grip wear
Strongly scored

Grade B was the best they had @ $599.00

B - For collectors who want to occasionally shoot their gun without greatly affecting its value

Moderate holster wear on slide, forward frame and/or trigger guard
Superficial corrosion in slide serrations and grip details
Negligible scratches in the grips
Minor bore wear

Seems to me Grade B is about what you could expect from most police trade-ins, grade D seems like it would be buying one of the last Enfield Jungle Carbines, pretty freaking rough, so I passed.

YMMV

[ramairthree]

Jerry Miculek doesn't seem to find that to be the case.

yes he does.
He is not going to clear a stage as fast with a DAO 92D as he would with a DA/SA 92FS or 92G shooting Production.
Or shooting one of these SIGs vs shooting an Open SA gun or G35.

It's just that he is at the 99.9 percentile of shooting ability and could outshoot the vast majority of people using one.

Try it yourself.

Pick some guns you you have, does not really matter exactly.
If you have a 1006 vs 1086,
92G vs 92D,
Whatever.
As close as you can get to each other except for DAO.

Push your DA SA hard for a while.
Now pick up your DAO.
You are going to see some loss in your splits with the longer reset, and likely some loss in your accuracy with the loss of your lighter SA pulls.

You are not going to notice this just dicking around at the range.
You will notice this going for speed and accuracy.

You think Stoeger could have performed the same with a 92D as a 92G?
Nope.
That's why you will see some DA SA guys with trophies.
You will see some striker fired guys with trophies.

Where are the guys shooting DAO with trophies. and the DAK version of a DAO is even worse than the average DAO.
DAO is not designed for accuracy.

It is designed for a heavy trigger pull with a long reset, so you only shoot if you really mean to and not by accident.

Smoking pot does not keep Michael Phipps from out swimming 99.9% of the world's population,
No more than DAO will keep Miculek from out shooting 99.9% of the world's population.

But those of us not in the Demi-God level of skill,
We will shoot better by not smoking pot and grabbing a DA SA 226 instead of a DAK 226 before we head to the range.

[26 Inf]

A looong time ago I was told, and believed, that the DA pull is more gross motor and the SA press is more fine motor. Nothing has disabused me of that thought in the time that has since passed. Likewise, nothing has disabused me of the understanding that fine motor skill tends to degenerate when you are shaking like a dog pooing a peach seed.

There are two main obstacles to teaching fast and accurate DA shooting. 1) grip strength; 2) attempting to stage the DA trigger. Once you give the shooter the idea of what I call 'jumping off the bridge' - pulling through smoothly with no hesitation the average shooter rapidly increases their skill - given adequate grip strength.

We had fewer shooters go to remedial with revolvers than we did with auto pistols. We also gave out more marksmanship awards. The problem children were folks that struggled to get through a days training with the revolver because of hand/wrist strength issues. They would start out okay and deteriorate throughout the training day.

We had the same problems with the same issues when we were teaching primarily DA/SA. I've always believed the first shot is the money shot, so I had then do as many DA strokes as possible during the training day. The same issues arose with those DA reps with those that had grip strength problems.

BUT, our big problems came with those pesky SA shots, easier to jerk them into oblivion.

What folks need to remember is that there is a difference between training someone who 1) is motivated to continue training with their weapon; 2) has access to a range; 3) has the funds; and 4) has the time in their schedule and training someone who is 1) learning to shoot as a job requirement; 2) without range access; 3) not of the mindset that 'I carry a gun because one day I'm going to need one.'

With the latter, I'm not so sure that DAO is not the best choice.

I hope you understand that I am NOT saying that DAO is the best choice for speed in competition, not even close.

[ramairthree]

I think want you are saying is that semiauto DAO gun is perfect on the hip on someone that might have to draw and fire or may never have to, possibly has little intrinsic skill, will get minimal training, range, and qualification time, can't be positive they will remember to take off a safety under stress, can't be trusted with a single action trigger pull, will not benefit from a short reset, may be in horrible shape, and will not likely have a need to engage multiple targets with speed and accuracy on the move.

If so, I agree.

To stand, draw, and fire at mediocre ranges, not requiring a significant amount of accuracy, or great deal of speed, it is fine for the average user.

I think of 1911s and DA / SA guns as like a manual transmission and full traction control off.

Harder to use than an automatic. Easier to get in trouble with than with traction control.

But if you take some time and effort,
You can do better.

[26 Inf]

I think want you are saying is that semiauto DAO gun is perfect on the hip on someone that might have to draw and fire or may never have to, possibly has little intrinsic skill, will get minimal training, range, and qualification time, can't be positive they will remember to take off a safety under stress, can't be trusted with a single action trigger pull, will not benefit from a short reset, may be in horrible shape, and will not likely have a need to engage multiple targets with speed and accuracy on the move.

If so, I agree.

To stand, draw, and fire at mediocre ranges, not requiring a significant amount of accuracy, or great deal of speed, it is fine for the average user.

I think of 1911s and DA / SA guns as like a manual transmission and full traction control off.

Harder to use than an automatic. Easier to get in trouble with than with traction control.

But if you take some time and effort,
You can do better.

You nailed it.

Unfortunately the trend in LE training is often just what you described.

In conjunction with the portion of LEOSA that required states to adopt firearms courses for retired officers our state adopted a course which requires no reloads, and if you analyse it, actually gives you more time per round at the closer ranges. The state then required that course be fired by every officer in the state once a year with the results reported to the state POST only if the officer didn't qualify. No limit on the number of attempts or any constraints such as 'cold bore' or a specific elapsed times between attempts.

We called it 'No Shooter Left Behind.' Unfortunately, some agencies adopted this as their only qualification course and actually spent less time on firearms training, because it is easier to qualify.