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I have a longstanding bet with a close friend.
Which is going to come first from a manufacturer: a vehicle capable of 0-60 in less than 2.0 seconds or a vehicle capable of 300+ mph?
There are some stipulations in our bet however. The vehicle must be "road legal", able to be registered through the DMV, has to achieve these numbers with all factory equipment and tuning, and not a single unit i.e. it has to be a vehicle intended to be commercially available to the public even if in a limited number.
I realize both of these numbers are achieved daily at drag strips and motoring events all over the world. But neither of these figures have even been close to achieved by a "regular" road going car.
Which do you think is more likely?
I realize that approaching either of these figures is a massive engineering feat and the physics of either is insane. I think that the marketing for 300 mph or 500 kph (310mph) would be more mouth watering and impressive as a headline for a manufacturer. It's probably far more difficult to achieve. The 0-60 in under 2.0 is probably less difficult for a road car but probably wouldn't wow the average non car guy.
What do you guys think?
I think you have to define a timeline and what exactly "regular" means. A Bugatti Chiron is $2.7-2.9 million dollars. You can register it, but the sales tax alone is $234,333 which is far from regular.
Being that the Porsche 918 and Chiron and both in the mid to low 2s for 0-60, I'd think that is much closer to being a reality in the near future. There's even a Tesla that's close.
On the Chiron, the theoretical top speed is said to be around 280-290mph. It comes electronically limited to around 260 mph for safety reason, which I suspect is related to the integrity of the tires more than the engineering of the chassis, braking or engine systems.
militarymoron
07-12-17, 09:05
0-60 in 2s will come first, IMHO. You can use that everyday getting on a freeway on ramp. 300 mph top speed? Can't do that but for a few places. IMHO 0-60 is just a (simplified) matter of power-weight ratio and traction. Put enough horsepower in a light car with the right tires and maybe AWD. 300 mph needs a lot more engineering than that due to aerodynamics/drag/stability and a host of other factors.
Well the Dodge Demon is already at 2.3 seconds 0-60.
Won't take much more to hit the 2 mark.
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Well the Dodge Demon is already at 2.3 seconds 0-60.
Won't take much more to hit the 2 mark.
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That 0-60 is tested on a drag strip with VHT all over the starting line, and the car on a drag radial. My heavily modified TA will do 0-60 in under 2 seconds at the track... on the street, even with the same tire I spin and spin for days.
The problem with getting to that sub 2 second mark will always be the tire and surface the tire is on.
Where did here about VHT?
First I have heard.
It use a very nice traction control to limit spin, will even lift the front tires on the ground.
And it comes with those drag radials.
Will do 2.1 will rollout, 2.3 without.
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Where did here about VHT?
First I have heard.
It use a very nice traction control to limit spin, will even lift the front tires on the ground.
And it comes with those drag radials.
Will do 2.1 will rollout, 2.3 without.
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The promotional video was shot at Englishtown Raceway Park. I live less than 5 miles away. I have been racing at E-Town since 2001. My permanent race number there is 8040 ;) lol I know the track. If you wantch the promotional video, at the 2:15 mark you can see the car launch and you can see the VHT pealing off the tire. My car was featured in GM High Tech Magazine back in the day and the shooting day was at E-Town as well. They prep the **** out of the track for those types of events because they want good results to keep the magazines coming back. I prefer Atco Raceway because the family that owns it is nicer and the track is always prepped, even for a regular Thursday night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vD6A6NxySQ
Try that launch on the street and see how far that gets you. No one races with Traction Control on. No one. You use your suspension to transfer weight and help the tire do it's job. Hypercars use crazy TC systems, the Demon did it with a sticky tire, on a sticky track. The Demon is impressive, hell, I want one, but it will never leave that hard on the street.
Jwknutson17
07-12-17, 12:12
The only way anyone is getting under a 2 second 0-60, is with AWD, some sort of anti lag (builds boost at a stop, by retarding timing and adding fuel) and some sort of launch control. Think of having your car sitting at 7k rpms, 30+ lbs of boost on a large turbo, and "pretty much" dumping the clutch. With drag radials and a great driver. On the street we are talking about. If you do hook up, hopefully the rest of the car can support the power. I know as I have stripped the teeth completely out of the clutch disc from the output shaft on the transmission. And also sheared gears completely off in the trans. Had to move to straight cut gears in a dog box trans to solve the problem.
I'd say the 0-60 mph in two or under is closer than a 300 mph capable turn key car. As much as it pains me to say it, it could very well be an electric car that does it. The newest Tesla does it somewhere near 2.29 I think. It's all wheel drive I believe, and with a little more work (and some weight savings considering it's nearly 5k lbs) I'd be willing to bet a flat 2.0 second 0-60 is possible.
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I think we will hit the sub 2 second 0-60 first. Cars are getting close already. A lot of things go into high top speeds and aerodynamics plays a huge role.
I remember reading something from Bugatti about the Veyron. They said it only took around 200 horsepower to get that car to 150 MPH but it took the other 800 horsepower to get it to 260. Im sure my numbers are off a bit as Im going off of memory but it is close to that.
The only way anyone is getting under a 2 second 0-60, is with AWD, some sort of anti lag (builds boost at a stop, by retarding timing and adding fuel) and some sort of launch control. Think of having your car sitting at 7k rpms, 30+ lbs of boost on a large turbo, and "pretty much" dumping the clutch. With drag radials and a great driver. On the street we are talking about. If you do hook up, hopefully the rest of the car can support the power. I know as I have stripped the teeth completely out of the clutch disc from the output shaft on the transmission. And also sheared gears completely off in the trans. Had to move to straight cut gears in a dog box trans to solve the problem.
Ive gone thought 6 or 7 sets of rear end gears, two or three posi units, an axle, two torque arms and a drive shaft... I feel you pain. I also have a face-plated T56 now.
Both are difficult to do, but I think 0-60 < 2sec will be first, and I think it will probably be an electric vehicle.
The promotional video was shot at Englishtown Raceway Park. I live less than 5 miles away. I have been racing at E-Town since 2001. My permanent race number there is 8040 ;) lol I know the track. If you wantch the promotional video, at the 2:15 mark you can see the car launch and you can see the VHT pealing off the tire. My car was featured in GM High Tech Magazine back in the day and the shooting day was at E-Town as well. They prep the **** out of the track for those types of events because they want good results to keep the magazines coming back. I prefer Atco Raceway because the family that owns it is nicer and the track is always prepped, even for a regular Thursday night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vD6A6NxySQ
Try that launch on the street and see how far that gets you. No one races with Traction Control on. No one. You use your suspension to transfer weight and help the tire do it's job. Hypercars use crazy TC systems, the Demon did it with a sticky tire, on a sticky track. The Demon is impressive, hell, I want one, but it will never leave that hard on the street.
Ok I guess it is not in the running.
I missed that in the video.
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Ok I guess it is not in the running.
I missed that in the video.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Its going to be a hard ask for a street car to launch that hard on the street.
That is why all those hypercars have crazy launch control systems, they are limited by the road surface and tires. You don't need a 1,500HP Chiron to get a sub 2 second 0-60 time. You can do it with 600HP if you have a tire and a track. [weight also plays a big factor] No street tire and public road will be able to provide enough traction to allow for that acceleration, that is why I think the 300mph club is more likely. Can you get a street car to go sub 2 seconds at a track with a sticky starting line? Sure. Public road? Nope. Like I said, I can dump the clutch at 7,000 rpm on a 28x10-15 Mickey Thompson ET Drag and cut a 1.40 60' but on the street, even a 3,000rpm clutch slip results in nothing but tire smoke.
0-60 in 2 Secs.
Top speed is currently tire limited, not power.
0-60 in 2 Secs.
Top speed is currently tire limited, not power.
Easier to produce a tire which can sustain 300mph than it is to make one which can give enough traction to move 4,000lbs from 0 to 60mph on unpreped asphalt.
0-60 in 2 Secs.
Top speed is currently tire limited, not power.
Top speed on most everything today is rpm/gear limited. But to your point, once they move past that, they will find other limits like tires, aero, etc.
Easier to produce a tire which can sustain 300mph than it is to make one which can give enough traction to move 4,000lbs from 0 to 60mph on unpreped asphalt.
sub 2 is been there done that. Just not in a production car. Easily done if they want to productize it.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/fastest-cars-0-60-mph-times/
0-60 in 2 seconds is not to far off, but this will be an electric car with AWD. 300MPH is just bragging rights, the new direction is not HP or top speed but mileage and economy. The next big thing will not be either, it will be 500 miles on a single charge in a 5 star crash safety tested well equipped 4 door sedan that cost under $50k- That's what people want today. But even when that comes, the next thing will be "charge on the go".
Sub 2 second 0-60 will come first. Hell, Tesla will probably be the first ones to do it.
The problem with sustained high speeds is the wheels/tires. The rotational forces they would experience to achieve 300mph is staggering. That's why cars like the Bugatti are so unique. They're made so they could be driven daily but are capable of absolute mind blowing performance.
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0-60 in 2 Secs.
Top speed is currently tire limited, not power.
Bugatti test driver agrees
http://jalopnik.com/why-the-bugatti-chiron-probably-wont-hit-300-mph-1796418643
Current tire tech is a major barrier holding back top speed.
sub 2 is been there done that. Just not in a production car. Easily done if they want to productize it.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/fastest-cars-0-60-mph-times/
The F1 is on a race slick, not a street tire. The others are either done on a track or theoretical calculations. Have you ever walked on a starting line of a drag strip? If your shoe isn't tied on well it will come off. What I am saying is all these test numbers are nearly impossible to recreate on the street. Obviosly a ton of cars can get sub 2s 0-60 times at a drag strip.
I think we will hit the sub 2 second 0-60 first. Cars are getting close already. A lot of things go into high top speeds and aerodynamics plays a huge role.
I remember reading something from Bugatti about the Veyron. They said it only took around 200 horsepower to get that car to 150 MPH but it took the other 800 horsepower to get it to 260. Im sure my numbers are off a bit as Im going off of memory but it is close to that.
In aircraft a general rule of thumb for at least the planes I fly is you need four units of thrust to overcome one unit of drag. I'm sure it's different for cars, but when you get to those kind of speeds drag really increases.
The F1 is on a race slick, not a street tire. The others are either done on a track or theoretical calculations. Have you ever walked on a starting line of a drag strip? If your shoe isn't tied on well it will come off. What I am saying is all these test numbers are nearly impossible to recreate on the street. Obviosly a ton of cars can get sub 2s 0-60 times at a drag strip.
OP did not specify on-ramp to Interstate, only that it had to be ""regular" road going car"
I grew up at Raceway Park.
25+ years ago, my tube frame B1 Dart ran 8.8's uncorked, but I ran in the 9.900 index. On concrete it's easier to accel than asphalt. Uncorked, my speeds were under 175ish.
I would think that acceleration gains are an easier grab than the 300 mph top speed figures.
OP did not specify on-ramp to Interstate, only that it had to be ""regular" road going car"
I grew up at Raceway Park.
True. I did not specify.
The nature of our bet is that, given an adequate driver, the car could perform either feat without any additional assistance from outside factors. Meaning of course it's not going to hook up at 34 degrees on cold tires, but on an ideal weather day, you could pull up next to whatever supercar of your choice at a red light and pull off a sub 2 second 0-60 time.
Also that given the right traffic conditions and an adequate road surface that the vehicle would be capable of 300 mph with a neutral head/tailwind.
True. I did not specify.
The nature of our bet is that, given an adequate driver, the car could perform either feat without any additional assistance from outside factors. Meaning of course it's not going to hook up at 34 degrees on cold tires, but on an ideal weather day, you could pull up next to whatever supercar of your choice at a red light and pull off a sub 2 second 0-60 time.
Also that given the right traffic conditions and an adequate road surface that the vehicle would be capable of 300 mph with a neutral head/tailwind.
If locations doesn't matter then I'm sure the time has already been beaten. If not my a manufacturer than by an owner of one of the many Hypercars out now. Plus, the driver is of little consequence in one of those cars when the timing is for straight line acceleration. The launch control on most Hypercars will up shift for you. Just push a couple buttons, hit the right paddle for first gear, hold the throttle and release the brake. Do it on a sticky enough surface and I'm sure a LaFerrari, Porche 918 or McLaren P1 can go sub 2.0 0-60. Bring them to the track on a December day when the DA is -2500. Done.
I have a longstanding bet with a close friend.
Which is going to come first from a manufacturer: a vehicle capable of 0-60 in less than 2.0 seconds or a vehicle capable of 300+ mph?
There are some stipulations in our bet however. The vehicle must be "road legal", able to be registered through the DMV, has to achieve these numbers with all factory equipment and tuning, and not a single unit i.e. it has to be a vehicle intended to be commercially available to the public even if in a limited number.
I realize both of these numbers are achieved daily at drag strips and motoring events all over the world. But neither of these figures have even been close to achieved by a "regular" road going car.
Which do you think is more likely?
I realize that approaching either of these figures is a massive engineering feat and the physics of either is insane. I think that the marketing for 300 mph or 500 kph (310mph) would be more mouth watering and impressive as a headline for a manufacturer. It's probably far more difficult to achieve. The 0-60 in under 2.0 is probably less difficult for a road car but probably wouldn't wow the average non car guy.
What do you guys think?
Sorry for the necropost, but Elon Musk did it. First production car with a sub 2 second 0-60 time.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-unveils-world-apos-fastest-083420557.html
Sorry for the necropost, but Elon Musk did it. First production car with a sub 2 second 0-60 time.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-unveils-world-apos-fastest-083420557.htmlNice looking car. I know a few people at work who are probably already in line to buy one. One of them is already on his second model S
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