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Been doing a lot of reading on the subject concerning annealing between reloadings. Especially for my bolt cartridges that are improved and or Wildcats where I have significant time investment. Any real world user's here? What works for you?
Researching annealing is opening a can of worms. As with every other aspect of reloading, there's a path for those who lack any amount of common sense... and you need to cling to a "quantifiable" methodology for the task. (i.e. tempilac, etc.)
In a nutshell... Too much heat ruins brass. Too little accomplishes nothing.
For .223/5.56, I've never had the need to anneal. I run a factory crimp die which SEEMS to be the work around that allows me to run precision ammo in bulk without annealing.
For .308 however, I can really feel inconsistent neck tension when bullet seating if I don't do annealing.
I hand anneal .308 and .300 WM brass EVERY loading. I do it by hand. I twist the brass in the flame one piece at a time and use the oxidation iris on the brass to see that I'm not over heating the brass. I started out by annealing in low light to ensure that I wasn't getting the brass cherry red hot and destroying it. But I eventually got general flame times developed in my head to where I can run it in regular lighting, and watch the oxidation iris develop in conjunction with the estimated time requirement.
Consistent heating seems crucial for annealing. No surprise as consistency is something we all strive for in reloading. Do you believe that the gas ring sold by the woodchuck den would improve consistency over the standard technique of brass rotation? If the standard brass rotation system works well enough than I could forgo the $50 expense of the gas ring.
The rifle brass that I am particularly concerned for is 510 wells, 3006 Ackley, and 6 BR.
Thanks markm!
gunnerblue
07-19-17, 11:34
I've used this simple technique for years- hold a rifle case by the base and slowly turn the neck over an open candle flame. When the case is too hot to hold, set it down on a wet cloth or paper towel. This is not enough to quench the case but allows for quick cooling. This method has greatly extended the life of my 6mm AI, 6.5-284 Norma, .308 and 300 Norma brass.
Remember that Cartridge brass is an alloy of zinc and copper. While copper has a very high melting point, zinc will melt at 787 degrees Fahrenheit. If the zinc melts, the brass will be forever soft. That said, I am now experiencing annealing brass using temperature resistant paint. I paint the necks of ten cases with paint designed to resist temperature up to 750 degrees. Using either a candle or handheld torch, I heat each neck until the paint disappears. I then average the recorded times and simply count that amount for every other case.
Both methods are fairly cheap, easy and , in my experience, reliable. Either way, a .308 case takes about 10 seconds to reach annealing temperature, so figure a little less for .223. I shoot little precision in that caliber so have never needed to anneal.
Experiment a little and good luck
I'm not familiar with the gas ring. But even my worst consistent annealing is much better than the wildly inconsistent neck tension I got without.
I just bought a propane torch. Time to see what happens.
There does seem to be some discrepancies in the literature and in various topical on line threads concerning visual cues on when enough heating has occurred. From dull red to slight discoloration. Can you elaborate on what exactly is your oxidation iris?
I built an annealer that is a copy of one that is popular on youtube, but if I was doing cases by hand I would seriously consider molten salt annealing. There are some pages online if you google it, as well as a thread in Accurateshooter. Appears to be much harder to screw up, and doesn't look to be terribly expensive to get started.
As someone who doesn't anneal brass, but dealt with annealing steel in industrial setting:
It's simple, but not easy.
Heat and time is all there is, lower heat takes more time and vice versus within a certain temp range.
The more consistent your process the better.
Like markm is saying, going off "feel" (flame location, time and speed of spin) will get you there and the visual cues can help ensure consistency. It will probably take time to get it down.
Slow flame.. like 7 or so seconds is ideal. It widens the margin for error. I watched some induction something or other method where the brass was glowing red in a second. Screw that.
I use a Ken Light annealing machine and try to use it for every sizing. It seems to make neck tension more consistent and extend the number of firings before the neck brass is work-hardened to the point it splits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhqmnSZKDmE
https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/40/annealing-under-the-microscope/
I use a Ken Light annealing machine and try to use it for every sizing. It seems to make neck tension more consistent and extend the number of firings before the neck brass is work-hardened to the point it splits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhqmnSZKDmE
That's awesome
Kansaswoodguy
07-30-17, 23:46
I don't anneal 223 but for my creedmore I use a propane torch, cordless drill and a deep well socket of the proper size to hold the brass and spin it when I just see a bit of red flame it's done. I've thought about building a annealer but don't do it enough to fool with it I only anneal that creedmore brass every 3-4 firings if I remember. Now when making creedmore brass from something else it's required or if your fire forming some AI brass I would do it for sure.
The AMP Annealer is the cat's meow. I'm drooling over one but I'll probably go with the Giraud instead. Just can't drop that much coin on one...
I have the AMP.
It is one of those few loading/shooting tools that I truly feel was worth every penny.
That said, it was a shit ton of pennies.
I have the AMP.
It is one of those few loading/shooting tools that I truly feel was worth every penny.
That said, it was a shit ton of pennies.
LOL, yeah it's a truck load of pennies. I'd love to splurge on one but I need to get the idiot behind the rifle shooting way better first. He spends too much time trying to sleep with my wife instead of shooting...lol
I have the AMP.
It is one of those few loading/shooting tools that I truly feel was worth every penny.
That said, it was a shit ton of pennies.
$1,000 is a lot of pennies. How many times can you reload brass after annealing compared to reloading brass without annealing?
Anyone have any experience with these guys? http://www.annealeez.com/
Anyone have any experience with these guys? http://www.annealeez.com/
After watching the videos, I am interested in this unit.
$1,000 is a lot of pennies. How many times can you reload brass after annealing compared to reloading brass without annealing?
Depends on how hot you load the ammo. I don't anneal to extend brass life. I anneal to even my neck tension. And that's only for bolt gun ammo. I shoot too much 223 ammo to anneal gas gun ammo.
$1,000 is a lot of pennies. How many times can you reload brass after annealing compared to reloading brass without annealing?
Like markm, I anneal for consistent neck tension, any extension on the brass life is just a bonus.
here is a link to a post of mine over on accurateshooter, explaining how well the AMP has worked for me in regards to neck tension:
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/annealing-last.3928505/page-3#post-37004170
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