View Full Version : CZ-75 pre B...
anyone have a CZ-75 pre B? i am getting into the CZ market and was wondering what people thought of the older Pre B models.
I have one a '91 converted to SAO by Angus Hobdell about 12 years ago. Many rounds downrange with zero issues other than spring replacement and a worn sear. Magazine compatibility is the only thing to watch out for as "B" models have a slightly different opening for the magazine. Sometimes new CZ Mags will fit, sometimes not. Recently I bought two new MecGar mags; one fit the other didn't.
I have one a '91 converted to SAO by Angus Hobdell about 12 years ago. Many rounds downrange with zero issues other than spring replacement and a worn sear. Magazine compatibility is the only thing to watch out for as "B" models have a slightly different opening for the magazine. Sometimes new CZ Mags will fit, sometimes not. Recently I bought two new MecGar mags; one fit the other didn't.
thanks for the reply. i am looking for one that is 1985 or earlier with the plastic waffle grips. they have a nice retro look. what kind of finish is on your "91"? is it a polycoat?
Yes, polycoat, very worn polycoat from the kydex holster. But I'll say given the use I've put on it the finish has worn well.
did you get one of those Israeli police trade-ins?....or was it one of those AAL imports? you get a better trigger pull with the SAO?
PreBs are great. Usually smooth excellent in DA, but variable creepy SA pulls. Dead on reliability and accuracy. Lousy nail polish finish. Oooops, I insulted nail polish. (If you find a blued or parked model in good shape its gold). If you detail strip, be VERY careful not to lose the detent. They don't exist anymore. Mags can be a pain to find (magwell is smaller than Bs). Some file the rear of the magwell. That can be iffy.
Other than these few items modern parts can be used.
The ergonomics and shoot ability are excellent, but mag release reach is a little long, and slide release can be a bit short. Sights are small and a bit hard to see for old folks. They can be milled out but the rear is touchy because there's not much clearance for the firing pin. But the looks are great and you gotalove the oval not round trigger guard.
PreBs are great. Usually smooth excellent in DA, but variable creepy SA pulls. Dead on reliability and accuracy. Lousy nail polish finish. Oooops, I insulted nail polish. (If you find a blued or parked model in good shape its gold). If you detail strip, be VERY careful not to lose the detent. They don't exist anymore. Mags can be a pain to find (magwell is smaller than Bs).
It is as you were posting the personal story of my CZ, it ate and spit everything I fed it but the finish chipped off life a Monday morning paint job from Earl Scheib.
It is as you were posting the personal story of my CZ, it ate and spit everything I fed it but the finish chipped off life a Monday morning paint job from Earl Scheib.
Roger. Most came in enamel and really were terrible. The other thing, there were various machining marks all over the inside - unlike modern CZs. I eventually Gunkoted mine and it is a beaut. I think I MAY have had a failure to go into battery on the first round once, but was solved with a mere tap of the palm. They are worth refinishing. Mine has some sentimental value, as the year on mine is that same year my tank battalion instituted C-ATK plans that led into Czechoslovakia. Kind of ironic. Iconic guns.
did you get one of those Israeli police trade-ins?....or was it one of those AAL imports? you get a better trigger pull with the SAO?
I bought it at a gunshow, more of a private sale. No import marks. The trigger pull as a SAO is awesome but competition only. After I got it I started putting heavier and heavier mainsprings in it to heavy up the trigger pull. Reset with the CZ custom adjustable SAO trigger is super short. Accuracy is still good after 20,000 or more rounds, it feeds anything.
The best of all worlds is finding a transitional Pre-B from the mid 90's. They lack the firing pin block, use 75B magazines, easily replaceable sights, and new style safety and slide stop. It is basically a poor man's Shadow. I took a Israeli Surplus transitional model and turned it into a sleeper competition gun:
95' Transitional Pre-B converted to SAO:
http://i.imgur.com/YAwPRULl.jpg
And, then my 1984 Pre-B:
http://i.imgur.com/wKfVy5vl.jpg
That last pre-B gen was the best looking CZ version.
Can't one buy a new "pre-B"?
notorious_ar15
08-05-17, 19:32
PreBs are great. Usually smooth excellent in DA, but variable creepy SA pulls. Dead on reliability and accuracy. Lousy nail polish finish. Oooops, I insulted nail polish. (If you find a blued or parked model in good shape its gold). If you detail strip, be VERY careful not to lose the detent. They don't exist anymore. Mags can be a pain to find (magwell is smaller than Bs). Some file the rear of the magwell. That can be iffy.
Other than these few items modern parts can be used.
The ergonomics and shoot ability are excellent, but mag release reach is a little long, and slide release can be a bit short. Sights are small and a bit hard to see for old folks. They can be milled out but the rear is touchy because there's not much clearance for the firing pin. But the looks are great and you gotalove the oval not round trigger guard.
Good post. Another avenue is their "Retro" model, which has a firing pin block; however, the frame has the rounded trigger guard of the Pre-B, as well as reproduction waffle grip panels. Takes the more available & cheaper new style mags, ability to switch out the sights easily, plus much better finish.
Yes, and CZ should just make a line of Retros.
Especially now that they have all stainless models to play with.
I really miss blued guns.
That last pre-B gen was the best looking CZ version.
Can't one buy a new "pre-B"?
Closest one can get is a CZ 85 Combat. Ambi controls except for the mag release, adjustable rear sight and no firing pin block.
Closest one can get is a CZ 85 Combat. Ambi controls except for the mag release, adjustable rear sight and no firing pin block.
Not being a jerk, but find me one, I'd probably buy it.
The 85B is mechanically equivalent, but with ambi controls and the adjustable sight, takes on another game. CZ made retros almost a decade ago, and last year had a commemorative that had a hammer and sickle, and looked decent. They only do it as an off-production gun and that is a shame - there is a steady demand - and especially if they tooled up the old oval TG.
PattonWasRight
08-10-17, 10:06
Big fan of my CZ 75, my Glocks get jealous of it. Wasn't aware of the 'transition' model, thanks for the info!
Transitional:
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=44542.0
PattonWasRight
08-10-17, 13:02
Transitional:
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=44542.0Great, thanks
So what do we call the 75 with the round trigger guard but standard frame rails, as opposed to the original with the short frame rails?
Both are PreB. One is a short rail PreB and sometimes called First Model.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK27RPu8Gtc
If memory is serving me, over 10 years ago you could pick up a short rail for a decent price a bit above the other PreBs. Now they are pretty high, and considered collectible.
Both are PreB. One is a short rail PreB and sometimes called First Model.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK27RPu8Gtc
If memory is serving me, over 10 years ago you could pick up a short rail for a decent price a bit above the other PreBs. Now they are pretty high, and considered collectible.
So "original" (short rails), "Pre-b" (round trigger guard) and "Pre-b transitional" (square guard).
So "original" (short rails), "Pre-b" (round trigger guard) and "Pre-b transitional" (square guard).
Basically yes. Most guys just say "Short Rail" for the first model/original. Then you already know it has a round/oval TG and it is a PreB.
Transitionals generally come with PreB slide stop and safety, but some MAY have B model hardware. Mine is a smoooooth 9mm. The SA was good from the start - nice crisp break. The DA was horrible, but with work, it is like greased glass.
Most PreBs have VERY smooth DA triggers.
What is the consensus on best mode of carry for the Pre-B models? Cocked & Locked or hammer down DA? Is one inherently more safe than the other?
Not being a jerk, but find me one, I'd probably buy it.
No offense taken. Check out CZ Custom, sometimes in stock, sometimes not. They have other retro models too. For trigger pull quality the non-firing pin block models are desirable and CZ has several competition oriented models available. Personally the FPB is not an issue, I want a smooth DA pull and good sights.
What is the consensus on best mode of carry for the Pre-B models? Cocked & Locked or hammer down DA? Is one inherently more safe than the other?
With CZ-75's you have to thumb down the hammer while pulling the trigger in order to get it in DA mode with a cartridge in the chamber. If a CZ-75 is in DA mode, the manual safety can't be activated. I personally don't think that thumbing down a hammer on a live cartridge is safe (though many have done it many times). I also don't think that a DA first pull without a manual safety is safer than a SA pull with a manual safety. Therefore, I think cocked & locked is the way to go with CZ's. If you want to carry in DA mode with the hammer down and no manual safety, CZ makes decocker models.
The PreB has a VERY positive safety so C/L is preferred. I go against the grain a bit. At least on B models I train to decock by blocking the hammer with my off hand thumb release the hammer with the trigger, release the trigger and roll the thumb away. As long as you block the hammer the rest is safe and easy, especially with a gun that employs a half cock. With some extra care the PreB could be done this way. No one has to thumb or pinch anything.
I even prefer decocking a SIG with my off hand and with my P99 you have to. Re holstering is a two handed operation.
No offense taken. Check out CZ Custom, sometimes in stock, sometimes not. They have other retro models too. For trigger pull quality the non-firing pin block models are desirable and CZ has several competition oriented models available. Personally the FPB is not an issue, I want a smooth DA pull and good sights.
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out. Do you have any idea why CZ discontinued the 85's? Are they figuring the Omega series will take its place?
The best of all worlds is finding a transitional Pre-B from the mid 90's. They lack the firing pin block, use 75B magazines, easily replaceable sights, and new style safety and slide stop. It is basically a poor man's Shadow. I took a Israeli Surplus transitional model and turned it into a sleeper competition gun:
95' Transitional Pre-B converted to SAO:
http://i.imgur.com/YAwPRULl.jpg
And, then my 1984 Pre-B:
http://i.imgur.com/wKfVy5vl.jpg
Your Pre-B, is that factory finish or did you have it redone?
That looks pretty and I'd love to do mine like that. I sorta wanted a BHP a while back but CZs are so much nicer.
Glocks are settled science, but CZs are just fun to shoot.
Your Pre-B, is that factory finish or did you have it redone?
That looks pretty and I'd love to do mine like that. I sorta wanted a BHP a while back but CZs are so much nicer.
Glocks are settled science, but CZs are just fun to shoot.
It is the original finish. The factory finish looks nice but isn't very durable on the old Pre-B's. This one will stay 100% original as I also got it with the original box, manual, and test target.
It is the original finish. The factory finish looks nice but isn't very durable on the old Pre-B's. This one will stay 100% original as I also got it with the original box, manual, and test target.
I see. Thanks for the reply. Mine is a surplus but I'd love it to look as pretty as yours
Yes the old enamel finish CAN look nice and remain so only if you don’t handle the gun. Flicking the safety will chip it off over a short time. It was done poorly with cheap spray paint. If I bought another I’d only get one at a great price and worn finish in order to refinish it, or a blued or parked model.
I might get mine Roguarded
I bought mine at the Grafenwoehr Training Area Rod and Gun Club in Germany back in 83 I think it was and brought it home with me. It was stolen and later recovered.
I bought mine at the Grafenwoehr Training Area Rod and Gun Club in Germany back in 83 I think it was and brought it home with me. It was stolen and later recovered.
Very happy you got it back. They were excellent deals back then! Bought mine from a buddy who brought one back. Should have brought one back myself.
I bought a Pre-B CZ75 in 1986—it was my first centrefire semi-auto. It had the enamel finish but it worked really well. The sights were awfully small for competition use so I sold it a few years later. I had a chance to pick this one up last year—it had the matte blued finish, but was a little worn (and had an idiot scratch! Who idiot scratches a CZ75? :mad:) Anyway, a little TLC with some touch-up bluing did the trick—I'm glad to have one back again.
https://i.imgur.com/sDeOoOb.jpg
Nice PreB and ‘the right’ finish!
[QUOTE=m4brian;2523129]...I even prefer decocking a SIG with my off hand and with my P99 you have to. Re holstering is a two handed operation.[/QUOTE
M4brian, if you are talking about using the decocking lever on the SIG with your support hand, you are GTG. if talking about lowering the hammer with your thumb while pulling the trigger a la the pre-B CZ-75, that does not render the pistol safe. It will fire if the hammer is hit hard enough.
Regards,
PreB safety is nice and positive. So CL. All Bs can be safely decocked using the support thumb blocking the hammer, rolling the thumb up, and letting the hammer rest in half cock.
Too many online gurus turn it into teeth-sucking madness with “pinching” and other nonsense.
I bought mine at the Grafenwoehr Training Area Rod and Gun Club in Germany back in 83 I think it was and brought it home with me. It was stolen and later recovered.
Now that I think about it, I bought it right after I returned from Desert Storm in 91. They gave us a week off and then a trip to Graf for training. We had better chow in the desert! Several of my friends had one and I really liked it.
That last pre-B gen was the best looking CZ version.
Can't one buy a new "pre-B"?
A few years ago, I was able to find a New in Box, commercial, 1991 Pre-B which I think was the last year prior to the transitionals, meaning it has the round trigger guard, spur hammer, and old style safety, and no firing pin disconnect, with a polymer finish more like my 75B. They are very similar in finish. No painted on enamel. It is my favorite CZ, and even my Mec-Gar 75B magazines work in it, which sometimes doesn't happen. A lot of beat up ones from Israel have come in recently, but many of those a good shooters, and can be cosmetically, and functionally enhanced.
I have five CZ pistols, and a Gen I Kadet Kit, but my 75 Pre-B is my favorite. It is a classic. You can not buy a new Pre-B, but CZ came out with a limited edition "Retro" model which resembles them, but has the firing pin disconnect like the 75B. Many think that's the best of both worlds, and I kick myself for not getting one when they were available in numbers, but I already had an original Pre-B, and a 75B so it seemed a little redundant so I bought a 97B, .45 instead.
Now that I think about it, I bought it right after I returned from Desert Storm in 91. They gave us a week off and then a trip to Graf for training. We had better chow in the desert! Several of my friends had one and I really liked it.
Wow. Don’t like the chow at Graf? Picky picky!
I've had an '89 (note the small number just behind the ejection port) pre-B for several years now; it, too has the cheap enamel finish. I bought it through a forum (and FFL) with the styrofoam box, cardboard sleeve and original accessories, including target. It has no import mark, so it must have been bought by a servicemember overseas and brought home. As there are a few chips and the finish actually bubbled once, I've thought about refinishing, but I wonder what a 'correct' finish would be. That said, I'm leaning toward black Cerakote.
My understanding is that the original concept for the pistol was to be carried chamber empty, then cocked and locked in action, and that the DA feature was primarily to provide a second-strike capability on a hard primer, if needed. I DID have a CZ clone once (Springfield Armory P9C) that allowed the safety to be set with the hammer down.
I was able to pick up some extra mags at gunshows; they are some of the items I keep an eye out for.
I'm honored to have one of these classics.
If you like the semi gloss black enamel finish I would pick a shade of Cerakote to match it. Frankly, I see no value in keeping the original enamel finish. Mine was bubbled also. I refinished it with satin black gun coat finish, and over baked it a bit to make it dark gray.
There were a few pre-bs that came with either parkerized or blued finishes. Those would be worth keeping if the finish was decent. But not the black enamel.
If you like the semi gloss black enamel finish I would pick a shade of Cerakote to match it. Frankly, I see no value in keeping the original enamel finish. Mine was bubbled also. I refinished it with satin black gun coat finish, and over baked it a bit to make it dark gray.
There were a few pre-bs that came with either parkerized or blued finishes. Those would be worth keeping if the finish was decent. But not the black enamel.
Thanks! Also, Tim at Military Arms Channel has a video showing a pre-B he had Cerakoted at the Copper Custom shop. A beautiful, top-drawer job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWuVA6x_bLY
Thanks! Also, Tim at Military Arms Channel has a video showing a pre-B he had Cerakoted at the Copper Custom shop. A beautiful, top-drawer job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWuVA6x_bLY
I know now what I must do.
I used to call my Pre B "Rally Vincent" but lately it has been my Atomic Blonde gun.
Its the only gun aside from my 1911 that I shoot purely for fun.
The parkerized finish is a bit rough but I'd love to put on Waffle Grips and get that glossy cerakote.
I sorta wish I'd gotten a spare CZ pre B when they were practically giving them away.
I know now what I must do.
I used to call my Pre B "Rally Vincent" but lately it has been my Atomic Blonde gun.
Its the only gun aside from my 1911 that I shoot purely for fun.
The parkerized finish is a bit rough but I'd love to put on Waffle Grips and get that glossy cerakote.
I sorta wish I'd gotten a spare CZ pre B when they were practically giving them away.
Thanks for reminding me! My pistol has checkered CZ grips, but I need to get a set of waffle grips.
Here you go:
https://vintagegungrips.com/shop/cz-model-75-waffle-style-pistol/
These be nicer, though:
http://lokgrips.com/gun-grips/cz-75/bogies/bogies-gray-black-g10/
I get that you guys want to keep them stock appearing, LOL!
Here you go:
https://vintagegungrips.com/shop/cz-model-75-waffle-style-pistol/
These be nicer, though:
http://lokgrips.com/gun-grips/cz-75/bogies/bogies-gray-black-g10/
I get that you guys want to keep them stock appearing, LOL!
You never know when you may have to deal with KGB spies....
¬_¬
For fancy grips, I'd get a fancy gun! ;)
CZ75's are fancy enough.
While I wouldnt bling grip a CZ, they really are a pretty gun.
Like the Communist Figure Skaters. You marvel at how such an oppressive system could churn out something so pretty
While I wouldnt bling grip a CZ, they really are a pretty gun.
Bling grip? Those are some stay right where you grab it gun grips. Just cause they match the pistol doesn't mean they are bad.
I just got a 1988 CZ85, I was going to do it in burnt bronze, but will do it in flat black and use double sided tape wrapped around the grips to ensure it's not too blingy. :laugh:
Those grips look good and very functional, but IMO, they’d go better with one of the more recent models.
On a pre-B, I’m all about tge original, classic look.
This just popped up--enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz2W8JgK76s
Combat_Diver
01-24-18, 06:11
I've owned 4 pre B cz75s and one preB cz85 that I picked up in Bad Tolz, West Germany between 88-90' (along with several other CZs)
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_45431.JPG
When I was there had Bruce Nelson make me a Summer Special, mag carrier and belt. Still use that holster today.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CZ75_left_side_Bruce_Nelson_rig.jpeg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CZ75_right_side_Bruce_Nelson_rig.jpeg
Later in the early 90s had Ted Blocker make me a LFI rig with belt. Got a left hand with thumb break and right hand without. Carried the cz85 in the left holster when I hurt my primary right hand.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/cz75_Ted_Blocker_LFI_rig_left.jpeg
Rattle canned my gun years ago as you can see but recently it was my main carry for 9 months last year once again using the Summer Special.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CZ75_left_side.jpeg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CZ75_right_side.jpeg
Gave the front sight a base coat of white then neon orange for hi vis and shooting it a -5 degrees in North Dakota. Also found dozens of the in Iraq over the years.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_0069_1_2.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/15941637_405125406493809_1819562334_n.jpg
CD
Neat pics and post Combat Diver. I like the S&W style paint on front sight.
Also, kinda silly but does anyone know of a way to get the mags to drop free without messing up the gun or do you all just live with it?
I just live with it but wish it would drop free but I don't see the cheap Pre-Bs anymore and dont want to hurt my gun.
Combat_Diver
01-24-18, 11:06
Neat pics and post Combat Diver. I like the S&W style paint on front sight.
Also, kinda silly but does anyone know of a way to get the mags to drop free without messing up the gun or do you all just live with it?
I just live with it but wish it would drop free but I don't see the cheap Pre-Bs anymore and dont want to hurt my gun.
Clear gun, remove magazine and grips and look at the magazine brake (stamp metal at back inside mag well). Reinsert the mag and notice how the brake inter acts with it. Drive out roll pin and remove mag brake. Mag should drop free now. Store in zip lock bag. Been 30 yrs since I did mine but I believe thats what I did. Simple and easy process. Parts 24 and 25 below.
50018
CD
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