View Full Version : Which AR next?
I am having a terrible time deciding between the BCM RECCE-16 KMR-A and Daniel Defense DDM4 V7. I have been wanting the BCM for the longest time but I have friends with Daniel Defense and and they are rock solid. Any input on either model would be greatly appreciated.
That's a tough one.
I like the KMR, I had two of the original magnesiums and have two of the KMR-As on the way to replace them. I think the original alloy was too soft.
If it's really a RECCE and oriented more toward precision, I'd go with a BCM SS410 upper, or the new BCM KD4 16" upper. It has a 1 in 7.7" twist barrel that's supposed to be best with MK262. But... I've been shooting MK262 through BCM 1 in 8" twist stainless barrels for a long time and have never had one not stabilize a 77gr SMK. The chrome lined BCM barrels I have shot were not very accurate as far as chrome lined barrels go, but I do like the SS410 barrels they sell.
I really not too fond of the BCM or Daniel Defense furniture and would likely replace either with Magpul CTR and MOE grip.
If the BCM comes with their PNT trigger it will have a better trigger, as far as I know Daniel Defense still ships with a regular trigger.
I have seen too many BCM lowers that will not accept Gen M3 Pmags to want a BCM lower as Gen M3 Pmags is all that is available to me (without buying mags).
Me? I'd buy a BCM KD4 upper and put it on an LMT lower with your choice of plastic and a Geissele SSA or SSA-E.
BrigandTwoFour
07-24-17, 20:32
What do you already have?
If it is already a quality AR, like both of the ones you mentioned, why not take that $1k+ and spend it on a good training course?
What do you already have?
If it is already a quality AR, like both of the ones you mentioned, why not take that $1k+ and spend it on a good training course?
This. Between the two, I'd lean bcm, but neither is wrong.
Being able to run 1 gun well beats the crap out of a show room when you can't find the colt catch.
Running your shit hard comes before buying more shit.
Torquetard
07-24-17, 20:41
That's a tough one.
I have seen too many BCM lowers that will not accept Gen M3 Pmags to want a BCM lower as Gen M3 Pmags is all that is available to me (without buying mags).
Windowed ones too?
Mysteryman
07-24-17, 21:11
Training...
MM
I am having a terrible time deciding between the BCM RECCE-16 KMR-A and Daniel Defense DDM4 V7. I have been wanting the BCM for the longest time but I have friends with Daniel Defense and and they are rock solid. Any input on either model would be greatly appreciated.
Which barrel? The DDM4V7 has standard or light weight barrels. All DD barrels are hammer forged and chrome lined (HF CL). BCM has many more choices in barrels. A fair feature comparison with Daniel Defense would include a BCM BFH Mid-Length 16" or a BCM BFH Enhanced Light Weight (Mid-length) with a BCM Bolt Carrier Group.
If you want a stainless barrel, go BCM.
You also have to compare the hand guard. One is Mlok and the other is Keymod.
Tough choice. I don't think you can go wrong either way. I'd probably pick the DD because I already have two BCM rifles that I love and want to own a complete DD someday too.
What do you already have?
If it is already a quality AR, like both of the ones you mentioned, why not take that $1k+ and spend it on a good training course?
I got into handgun competition starting in the late 70's, early 80's and then migrated into precision rifle competition. For reasons unknown, I never purchased an AR even though I've wanted one for quite a long time. Not knowing if I would like the platform, I purchased what most would consider a "entry level" rifle earlier this year. I live in Cocoa, FL and Diamondback firearms is literally 10 minutes from where I live so I picked up one of their DB15 rifles. It has a 16” 4150 Chrome-Moly, Melonite Coated barrel with a 1:8 RH twist. Bolt carrier is shot-peened, MPI Mil Spec 8620 Melonite Coated with 158 Carpenter Steel Bolt. Handguard is a 15" free float. I did not care for the stock so I replaced it with a BCM Gunfighter SOPMOD and added a BCM vertical grip (short). For optics I went with the Primary Arms 1-6X24mm SFP Gen III ACSS on an American Defense Q.D. Scope Mount.
I was a little nervous going with the Diamondback but I have to say it has been functioning flawlessly for the 1K rounds I have put through it. It has consistently shot MOA or slightly under with match ammunition so I really can't find anything to complain about. That being said, I have got the AR bug and want to pick up a higher end rifle. I don't want to break the bank because I would like to migrate into the AR-10 platform as well. As far as training is concerned, yes, that is in the works as well. I am open to travel but I would prefer to stay in Florida if at all possible. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I have thought about taking one of Frank Proctor's classes because he is in Alabama and I have family not too far from his place. I'm not sure about it though because I am a Gator and he is an Alabama fan..... LOL
Which barrel? The DDM4V7 has standard or light weight barrels. All DD barrels are hammer forged and chrome lined (HF CL). BCM has many more choices in barrels. A fair feature comparison with Daniel Defense would include a BCM BFH Mid-Length 16" or a BCM BFH Enhanced Light Weight (Mid-length) with a BCM Bolt Carrier Group.
If you want a stainless barrel, go BCM.
You also have to compare the hand guard. One is Mlok and the other is Keymod.
Tough choice. I don't think you can go wrong either way. I'd probably pick the DD because I already have two BCM rifles that I love and want to own a complete DD someday too.
I want a hammer forged barrel but I don't want a light weight (pencil) barrel. I have had hunting rifles with "lightweight" barrels in the past and found that there accuracy deteriorated after the barrel heated up after firing several rounds. I'm not sure if technology has gotten better with lightweight barrels but I don't want to sacrifice accuracy over a few ounces. The same goes for barrel length I would rather go with a 16" vs 14 1/2", again I would prefer to have a little higher velocity rather than save a few ounces. Same thing goes for the hand guard, I want something in the 13 1/2 to 15" range because of the way I hold the rifle.
17K, thanks for the information and I will definitely be looking into the specifics in your post! I am trying to learn as much as possible when it comes to AR's but I have a long way to go. I've spent a lot of time researching twist rate and right, wrong or indifferent I tend to lean towards the 1:8 twist rate because it seems to split the difference. If not that I would go for the 1:7 because I prefer the higher grain bullets. The same goes for handguns, in 9mm I prefer 147 grain.
1/8 will stabilize anything you can fit in the magazine.
I like accuracy and it sounds like you do too. I'd look hard at a BCM SS410 upper. I've three and they were all hammers with MK262.
Furbyballer
07-25-17, 09:03
If you want 1/8 grab a sionics and save money over both bcm and DD.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
That's a tough one.
I like the KMR, I had two of the original magnesiums and have two of the KMR-As on the way to replace them. I think the original alloy was too soft.
If it's really a RECCE and oriented more toward precision, I'd go with a BCM SS410 upper, or the new BCM KD4 16" upper. It has a 1 in 7.7" twist barrel that's supposed to be best with MK262. But... I've been shooting MK262 through BCM 1 in 8" twist stainless barrels for a long time and have never had one not stabilize a 77gr SMK. The chrome lined BCM barrels I have shot were not very accurate as far as chrome lined barrels go, but I do like the SS410 barrels they sell.
I really not too fond of the BCM or Daniel Defense furniture and would likely replace either with Magpul CTR and MOE grip.
If the BCM comes with their PNT trigger it will have a better trigger, as far as I know Daniel Defense still ships with a regular trigger.
I have seen too many BCM lowers that will not accept Gen M3 Pmags to want a BCM lower as Gen M3 Pmags is all that is available to me (without buying mags).
Me? I'd buy a BCM KD4 upper and put it on an LMT lower with your choice of plastic and a Geissele SSA or SSA-E.
Huh? I've never heard of this before. I'd lean more toward a mag issue than a BCM lower issue.
Why not just save up and buy both?
If you end up not liking one sell it. I have a DD and BCM, I would go with just the BCM if I had to buy one. I only use my DD for longer ranges.
Not sure why everyone recommends more training if your going to use your AR at the range or hunting, if that were the case just join the military and get all the training you can handle with a free rifle included. Why pay to "play" soldier?
why not go top tier and buy one of the Noveskes I've got in the equip exchange.....;)
Huh? I've never heard of this before. I'd lean more toward a mag issue than a BCM lower issue.
The front of the trigger guard/rear of the magwell on a BCM has a tendency to be lower than on a Colt spec lower and prevents a Gen M3 Pmag from locking in since that is where the over-insertion tab is hits on the Pmags.
If it was a mag issue it would have been identified as such in the military testing.
Never owned a BCM but I like my DDM4v7. Can't go wrong either way.
why not go top tier and buy one of the Noveskes I've got in the equip exchange.....;)
I looked at both of them today...
OP, I am BCM whore. Love everything they make. Having said that, this guy is right. He is selling a couple of Noveskes for a DEAL!
I have the V7 and a BCM 16" ELW with KMR. You won't go wrong with either one.
Did you also read the thread where this was addressed and apparently that part of the lower is not well defined?
The front of the trigger guard/rear of the magwell on a BCM has a tendency to be lower than on a Colt spec lower and prevents a Gen M3 Pmag from locking in since that is where the over-insertion tab is hits on the Pmags.
If it was a mag issue it would have been identified as such in the military testing.
Beat Trash
07-26-17, 09:56
The front of the trigger guard/rear of the magwell on a BCM has a tendency to be lower than on a Colt spec lower and prevents a Gen M3 Pmag from locking in since that is where the over-insertion tab is hits on the Pmags.
If it was a mag issue it would have been identified as such in the military testing.
I actually started a topic on this issue two years ago. Short version is I bought a BCM lower to go with one of their uppers that I owned. It was to be used for work as a Patrol Rifle. The lower wouldn't accept gen3 PMAG's. I sent it to BCM and they said the lower was good to go, as their guns are build to be used with Mil Spec magazines. The person I delt with went to great length to inform me how horrible the gen3 PMAG design is and why I should never consider using one for a duty gun and the liability issues of my Agency purchasing the gen3 PMAg's. ( I guess the Untied States Marine Corps didn't get that memo...) He then tried to talk me into buying and using Tango Down ARC magazines, as that's what he used in his personal rifles exclusively.
I don't feel comfortable with a duty rifle that is magazine sensitive. We agreed to disagree.
I got so frustrated with BCM and how they handled the situation, that I sold off every BCM product that I owned. I will never go back. I'm sure that this statement may upset some on this site. But this was my personal experience in dealing with the company, and my experience with their customer service overall.
I recently bought a DD V7 lw to use an a new duty rifle. The only issue I have had was that I let my wife shoot it. I then had to go out and buy another one for her.
If I were interested in a 1/8 barrel, then I would buy a Sionics upper/rifle and be done with it.
I got so frustrated with BCM and how they handled the situation, that I sold off every BCM product that I owned. I will never go back. I'm sure that this statement may upset some on this site.
Upset? Hell no, I love buying discounted BCM parts. I wish more people would pay full price and then get mad and sell their stuff cheap.
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