View Full Version : Fighting Sheep Dog Complaint
This discussion was originally posted as "Plastic Absorbing Cerakote". It has now been change to a more appropriate title.
Hey guys,
A local shop was offering Cerakote at half off and I decided to give it a try. It was during a promotional event and there was a 7 day guarantee or the job was for free.
They are on day 9 and yesterday they told me that my rifle which is a full conversion to 22lr, has plastic that is absorbing the cerakote and that is the reason for the delay because they had to order more paint. I was told it was because my rifle has so much plastic. The lower I purchased complete from PSA with a Magpul MOE adjustable stock, MOE grip, and MOE trigger guard , and the handguard is the standard guard you see on most AR's. No other plastic. I have been told that the rifle has absorbed 1 and a half bottles and still needs more paint. No clue what size bottle they are talking about.
So my question to you is, can one plastic absorb more paint than any other? I would never accept an offer for a free paint job, but should I at least get offered one???
Thanks.
***UPDATE***. OCT 27 2017 - For this 7 day job, they have had my rifle for 5 weeks. When I received it back it was painted 2 different colors and was improperly applied. They promised to make it right and have had my rifle for an additional 8 weeks, refuse to give an update of the progress, and refuse to return it back to me.
I can't offer any input on paint being absorbed by plastic, but my feeling is that they should honor the 7 day turnaround period. Sounds like they took longer than 7 days to even notify you that they were having issues. Don't offer a 7 day guarantee unless you are willing to stand behind it.
Can't comment on the technical aspect of the paint job itself, however...
a 7 day guarantee is a 7 day guarantee. If they accepted the job, then they need to honor it.
I would never accept a customer's property for modification, unless I KNEW how it would turn out.
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SilentRecon
07-29-17, 13:09
Make sure you are there with the rifle in hand and when it's time to pony up, lay it all out in the table they did not honor THEIR guarantee. Them Placing blame on your product "absorbing" the cerakote and needing more has nothing to do with you. They are probably short on supplies or realized they could not meet their deadline. The easiest and only way for them is to pawn it off on you, the consumer, that your product is at fault for their delay and hoping you are either clueless, will forget, or will not follow through on your end....this happens especially when it turns out nice and they see you like it- hoping you'll just brush it off because you are giddy seeing the final finished product.
Businesses need to be accountable these days and honor their guarantees. If not, then they use it to just get people in the door. set it straight!
If they are a certified cerakote dealer, he was short on having product in stock, or fell behind on your project.
Any other reason is bogus. Either this is the first time he's ever cerakote Magpul furniture, or you have abnormal Magpul furniture that is made of sponge. Not buying that.
Good luck! FREE
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They are jerking you around.
I've used plenty of H and C series Cerakote to know their reason is total BS. Maybe they incorrectly tried to mix some C series and the resulting coat was too thin and in some failed logic they thought the plastic was absorbing it. H series is suppose to be mixed, C series is suppose to be used as is. Maybe they goofed that up and are now back pedaling.
the_1iviper
07-29-17, 15:30
i don't believe they actually gave you that answer as an explanation and expect you to believe it
a bottle and a half and they need more ?
i would be driving down to the shop the next time they're open and having a look at my rifle ;)
If it's absorbing the paint, your plastic will grow, and it would still dye it.
Sounds like a load of horse shit. You should go watch them next time.
Thanks for the replies. Thought it sounded shady but I didn't want to make it seem like I was over reacting, which I have been known to do on occasion. I probably won't push for a free paint job, but I will be very disappointed in that company if it is not offered. If they demanded I took it for free I would buy $200 worth of merchandise to make up for it. The main thing that concerns me is that the 1 min 22 sec voicemail made it sound like since my rifle has so much plastic that it was my fault for having a cheap gun, which it definitely is not. The person who made the call actually laughed when they said my rifle has so much plastic that it soaked up an entire bottle. I was told that the paint will be in on Mon or Tues, so I'm guessing the turn around will end up being about 14 days. I'm including the part of the email I received about the Guarantee.
Pay Attention To #2: No Rush Fee! Guaranteed Turnaround on Your Single-Color Cerakote Job for this week’s special is ONE WEEK!
Yep – from the time your gun walks in our door (whether shipped to us or you bring it in yourself) to the time we call to tell you it’s done is 7 whole days!
Bring it in Wednesday, we’ll call you by next Wednesday, or it’s FREE! (Single color only, drop off this week only)
Obviously the decision is yours, but there's no way I would be letting them slide on this. They're trying to make it sound like no big deal and business as usual, all at your expense.
It's not as if you took it in trying to get something for nothing. Let them honor their commitment to a 7 day turnaround. If you want to give them more of your business later you can do so, but it shouldn't be done because you feel an obligation to them in this matter.
tigershilone
07-29-17, 17:11
Something sure is fishy, I've used "C" series cerakote on many plastic magpul parts and the coverage is the same as metal. I've painted non-magpul plastic parts and the coverage is still the same, the hard plastics used on firearms do not "absorb" paint or cerakote. With that said, NIC Industries recommends a 3 day cure period for it's C series air cure cerakote before re-assembly of parts.
The smallest bottle that NIC sells is four ounces, that is probably enough to do 2-4 complete rifles if your paint application technique is proper. Cerakote is supposed to go on parts with a .001" coating, that is pretty thin and you don't need much. I'd really look over your finished parts and make sure they work properly to verify clearances haven't been changed by too much Cerakote applied. I have had to re-do projects 3 times before getting the proper finish, most of the work is in the preparation of the surface. They should not be putting cerakote in the chamber or barrel, all parts have to be disassembled and shot separately for a proper job (complete breakdown of rifle, did you know that ahead of time?) Are they doing the bolt as well?
You can also see if they are a certified Cerakote applicator on NIC Industries website, they are all listed there.
SilentRecon
07-29-17, 20:11
You should tell them because they honored their guarantee of one week, you will guarantee them the same with good publicity. Lmao
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No. Cerakote isn't a stain or a dye. They are misleading you. Follow tigershilone's advice, see if they are a certified applicator.
tigershilone
07-29-17, 23:21
I have been told that the rifle has absorbed 1 and a half bottles and still needs more paint.
A bottle and a half and still not done? Are you kidding me?!?!?! I just re-read the op's original post and this just floors me. Again, the smallest bottle they sell is 4 oz. I usually use between 1-1.5 oz for a complete carbine and for sure not over 2 oz. Shoot it through an Iwatta LPH-80 at 13psi which has very good droplet control and I still usually wind up wasting about 25% of what I poured in the spraygun after the project has a good wet coat on it. (lots of test strips and misc crap gets recolored now, cerakote is too expensive to waste at $35/4 oz bottle)
Total BS, I'm a certified Cerakote applicator and plastic does not absorb the product, it doesn't work on something like "rubber" though. I'm guessing they got a better response than expected and just got overwhelmed. The smallest bottle with do a couple of rifles and pistols depending on the size, Cerakote is applied to a 1 mil thickness, on scopes and mags, which don't really need as much protections as the firearm you can get away with 1/2 mil.
With the responses I am getting I will request that they honor their own words. If they try to get away with offering me the same excuse, I will pull a print out of this discussion out of my back pocket and then see what they have to say.
I was told it was completely disassembled, but they say their warehouse is 30 minutes away from the business and it may be in a location they want to keep secret, so I doubt they will let me see the progress they have made without it becoming a big deal. They may read this forum, but I don't want them to think that I am questioning their work until the rifle is completed.
They are not an Authorized Cerakote applicator, however they do make claims that they are experts... Their regular prices are well over the local authorized dealers. They claim, "Not all Cerakote sprayers are created equal. That’s why we’ve created a FREE report you can use to Discover the Top 3 Mistakes to Avoid When Choosing a Cerakote Expert".
I also contacted Cerakote to see if they can also tell me what they think, but I don't know if they would want to get involved. Hopefully they will want to make sure no one is talking crap about their product.
SilentRecon
07-30-17, 12:16
With the responses I am getting I will request that they honor their own words. If they try to get away with offering me the same excuse, I will pull a print out of this discussion out of my back pocket and then see what they have to say.
I was told it was completely disassembled, but they say their warehouse is 30 minutes away from the business and it may be in a location they want to keep secret, so I doubt they will let me see the progress they have made without it becoming a big deal. They may read this forum, but I don't want them to think that I am questioning their work until the rifle is completed.
They are not an Authorized Cerakote applicator, however they do make claims that they are experts... Their regular prices are well over the local authorized dealers. They claim, "Not all Cerakote sprayers are created equal. That’s why we’ve created a FREE report you can use to Discover the Top 3 Mistakes to Avoid When Choosing a Cerakote Expert".
I also contacted Cerakote to see if they can also tell me what they think, but I don't know if they would want to get involved. Hopefully they will want to make sure no one is talking crap about their product.
$Free.99
Keep them accountable
They will probably end up honoring it reluctantly but business is business. There's a wealth of knowledgable members here (including actual certified cerakote) that have revealed the obvious and is pretty cut and dry.
Like I mentioned before, wait until it's 100% finished ready for pickup. They may simply tell you then it's free and they apologize for their delay and not honoring their guarantee. I'd say that would be slim but if they have any business ethics, they should.
Don't feel bad or think that you are taking advantage of their policy- you are not.
Good luck!
556BlackRifle
07-30-17, 13:08
They are either incompetent or lying to you or both. Any way you slice it, this is not a good scenario. I'd insist that they honor their word and if they don't, I'd take them to small claims court. And in the future, regardless of how this turns out, I'd take my business elsewhere.
They are either incompetent or lying to you or both. Any way you slice it, this is not a good scenario. I'd insist that they honor their word and if they don't, I'd take them to small claims court. And in the future, regardless of how this turns out, I'd take my business elsewhere.
All of this. I am not sorry to say that a guarantee is legally actionable unless they have included the legal language by which they can squirrel their way out of the 7 day promise.
Maybe I would have been cool with pick up on day eight, heck days nine and ten even might have gotten a pass. The fact is that you still don't have the rifle back and they're "waiting on paint." So you have no real timeline and an extra week is a definite possibility just in the time for them to get a shipment in (Monday at the soonest), coat it, and cure it properly.
Job is free, and I would praise the business for honoring their word.
Job is free, and I would praise the business for honoring their word.
Definitely agree; IF it turned out reasonably well.
Any business or company will have their fair share of blunders. As a consumer, I'm interested in doing business someone who's honest, honors their word, and is eager to make things right when they mess up.
For the OP, when you finally get to pick up the finished product, I'd give them the opportunity to insist on it being free before mentioning it yourself. See if they'll take the initiative to follow through simply because it was promised, and is the right thing to do. If that turns out to be the case, then I'd definitely sing their praises.
Admittedly, their "excuse" does seem a bit curious. My guess is that they forgot about it, or were saddled with a higher volume than was anticipated; due to the sale. If that's the real story, the odds that they'll proactively follow through on their guarantee might be slim. Still, I'd give them a chance before insisting they be accountable for missing the promised deadline.
Good luck and I hope it at least looks good when it's done. Keep us posted.
With the responses I am getting I will request that they honor their own words. If they try to get away with offering me the same excuse, I will pull a print out of this discussion out of my back pocket and then see what they have to say.
I was told it was completely disassembled, but they say their warehouse is 30 minutes away from the business and it may be in a location they want to keep secret, so I doubt they will let me see the progress they have made without it becoming a big deal. They may read this forum, but I don't want them to think that I am questioning their work until the rifle is completed.
They are not an Authorized Cerakote applicator, however they do make claims that they are experts... Their regular prices are well over the local authorized dealers. They claim, "Not all Cerakote sprayers are created equal. That’s why we’ve created a FREE report you can use to Discover the Top 3 Mistakes to Avoid When Choosing a Cerakote Expert".
I also contacted Cerakote to see if they can also tell me what they think, but I don't know if they would want to get involved. Hopefully they will want to make sure no one is talking crap about their product.
Not gonna lie...that sounds pretty sketchy bro.
I'm a manufacturing manager for a large publicly traded company. We don't keep customers out of the process. Sure NDAs may be involved with proprietary stuff, but "secret locations"?
I suppose if they have an unsecured place with inventory...maybe. But "secret location" SCREAMS the local certified cerakote shop, lol.
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Not gonna lie...that sounds pretty sketchy bro.
I'm a manufacturing manager for a large publicly traded company. We don't keep customers out of the process. Sure NDAs may be involved with proprietary stuff, but "secret locations"?
I suppose if they have an unsecured place with inventory...maybe. But "secret location" SCREAMS the local certified cerakote shop, lol.
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Reading the OPs comment, I'm not sure the shop actually alleged it was a "secret location". It seems that word usage was a liberty taken by the OP; only to explain why he though he may not be able to just swing by and check it out. It doesn't appear he'd even inquired about stopping by to check the progress.
My guess is the shop told him that they do the Cerakote treatments offsite. Maybe even stating it was someplace like a warehouse that's not open to consumers or the public. Still, I agree something seems off here; that OP is not getting the full story. I do also agree, regardless of if the shop actually said "secret location", that doing it offsite could indicate that a 3rd Party is handling the work.
Reading the OPs comment, I'm not sure the shop actually alleged it was a "secret location". It seems that word usage was a liberty taken by the OP; only to explain why he though he may not be able to just swing by and check it out. It doesn't appear he'd even inquired about stopping by to check the progress.
My guess is the shop told him that they do the Cerakote treatments offsite. Maybe even stating it was someplace like a warehouse that's not open to consumers or the public. Still, I agree something seems off here; that OP is not getting the full story. I do also agree, regardless of if the shop actually said "secret location", that doing it offsite could indicate that a 3rd Party is handling the work.
Especially given the fact they are more expensive than the local cerakote shops.
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Everybody makes mistakes, how they deal with them determines what I think of the business.
If they're lying to you, that's not a good thing.
Especially given the fact they are more expensive than the local cerakote shops.
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Agreed.
If the OP wanted to go all super sleuth, he may be able to figure out who the 3rd party is. Use the authorized Cerakote finder on the NIC website, to do a search for certified applicators within 30 minutes of the gunshop. That's assuming that it is a 3rd party doing the work, and that said 3rd party is certified.
Probably not worth the time, and I'm not sure what good that information would do. Just a thought.
Sorry for any confusion, I definitely did not want to imply that they have a "secret location". I only assumed that because 20 minutes before they closed at 6pm on the deadline date, I was told I could pick it up 30 mins after it left the warehouse where the work was done and I wasn't given the opportunity to pick it up at the warehouse which could have possible gotten it to me sooner.
I received this reply from Cerakote, "That does sound a bit odd. The plastic parts on an AR-15 should not use or soak up any more Cerakote Coating than any other parts such as aluminum or steel parts.* 4oz is enough to do a complete AR-15".
Thanks!
You really don't need to print a copy of anything from this forum. That's just going to tell them (right or wrong) that you're unsure of yourself.
If you feel like you need to tell them something just tell them you've been in contact with cerakote and that you know your rifle didn't 'soak up more paint.'
They're either incompetent or dishonest (or perhaps both.)
Top 3 Mistakes to Avoid When Choosing a Cerakote Expert".
#1 - They have no clue how much product they need to do the job.
#2 - It takes them over a week to figure out that they have no clue.
#3 - They don't don't have the product they need in stock to do the job.
SO... My guess is they have read this post. Probably screwed myself. Anyway, they are closed for the day and don't reopen until Weds. They didn't give me an update and by the time Weds comes around it will be day 20. FUN!
tigershilone
08-05-17, 21:54
They claim, "Not all Cerakote sprayers are created equal. That’s why we’ve created a FREE report you can use to Discover the Top 3 Mistakes to Avoid When Choosing a Cerakote Expert".
Can you post this FREE report so I can discover the Top 3 Mistakes to avoid when choosing a Cerakote Expert? Thanks in advance
SilentRecon
08-05-17, 22:09
SO... My guess is they have read this post. Probably screwed myself. Anyway, they are closed for the day and don't reopen until Weds. They didn't give me an update and by the time Weds comes around it will be day 20. FUN!
I'd say regardless if he reads it or not, if he has an inkling of business ethics, he will take care of you. If he's a fly by night entity then he could care less the end result.
Day 20 and a pallet of cerakote later because of your custom one off -sponge accessories, it should come back free and with a apology at the least.
Don't fret, You haven't named any shady characters or businesses. You simply asked a question you thought was suspect and got quality feedback confirming your thoughts.
militarymoron
08-05-17, 22:58
SO... My guess is they have read this post. Probably screwed myself.
Well, if they're reading this thread, and if they're smart, they have a chance to show that they stand by their word. Or, explain why they won't honor their advertisement or what really went wrong. If they screw you over, as a public service let us know who the vendor is so others know to avoid them.
So I just got an update. My gun will not be painted for free because AGAIN I am told that my rifle soaked up so much paint that they had no idea how much they would need to complete the job. I was told via email,
"Regarding the money back guarantee, as I said on the voicemail, your one gun used up an entire unopened bottle of paint that should have covered at least 6 guns. We ordered more paint as soon as it became obvious that the one bottle wouldn't be enough, but in a typical situation the one bottle would have been more than enough to meet the guaranteed turnaround time, even with the steps necessary to ensure the gun fired properly".
I'm told that the paint just came in today and I will have it back by the weekend.
So I just got an update. My gun will not be painted for free because AGAIN I am told that my rifle soaked up so much paint that they had no idea how much they would need to complete the job. I was told via email,
"Regarding the money back guarantee, as I said on the voicemail, your one gun used up an entire unopened bottle of paint that should have covered at least 6 guns. We ordered more paint as soon as it became obvious that the one bottle wouldn't be enough, but in a typical situation the one bottle would have been more than enough to meet the guaranteed turnaround time, even with the steps necessary to ensure the gun fired properly".
I'm told that the paint just came in today and I will have it back by the weekend.
BS.
I don't normally call BS, but "Your rifle soaked up more paint that would be enough for 6 guns..." Okay.... You're a 'skilled applicator' and didn't know this would happen before you took the work AND gave out that time guarantee...
No, they're pulling you around. I would contest the charge when you get it back, let them explain their agreement to the card company.
Or better yet!
Tell them not to touch it anymnore. Send it back, that you won't be paying them a dollar and will contest any charges. See how much paint your rifle has really "Sucked Up" in it's exact status now... Call them on their BS.
I wouldn't give them a dime of my money. If you haven't paid yet, don't. If you have, contest the charges as stated above.
THIS IS FYI - they say, "to ensure the gun fired properly" is because the handguard was loose when I brought it in and I told them to take a look. I haven't seen it yet but they say they had to, "The lack of gas tube meant that one had to be fabricated (that's why your forend would spin freely - there wasn't anything holding it in place)".
Which I have already contacted CMMG and they said the only way it could spin would be if the barrel nut was loose. I think they said they are not charging for the fabrication, but their communication sucks. The fore grip came loose when I was changing the flash suppressor as I was already walking out the door because an appointment at the VA. I'm guessing my dumb ass loosened the nut when I was trying to rush. It will be fun to see what their "Fabrication" is and exactly what they did to my rifle.
THIS IS FY - they say, "to ensure the gun fired properly" is because the handguard was loose when I brought it in. I haven't seen it yet but they say they had to, "The lack of gas tube meant that one had to be fabricated (that's why your forend would spin freely - there wasn't anything holding it in place)".
Which I have already contacted CMMG and they said the only way it could spin would be if the barrel nut was loose. I think they said they are not charging for the fabrication, but their communication sucks. The fore grip came loose when I was changing the flash suppressor as I was already walking out the door because an appointment at the VA. I'm guessing my dumb ass loosened the nut when I was trying to rush. It will be fun to see what their "Fabrication is".
Wait, wait, wait.
They are saying they had to fabricate a gas tube? What in the ****?
Wait, wait, wait.
They are saying they had to fabricate a gas tube? What in the ****?
I know, I am very worried! If they would have mentioned the word fabrication before just doing it, I would have said Hell NO!
I know, I am very worried! If they would have mentioned the word fabrication before just doing it, I would have said Hell NO!
I'd be going down there demanding to see the gun. At this point I'd be worried about them mucking with it. A place doing mods without asking is up there with shady car dealer shit. If they say you can't see it, raise hell. If they tell you they don't know where it at threaten to report it stolen. I'd also be threatening reports to the BBB. Shit is not on the up an up as far as I can see at this point and my gut is saying they are lying to you.
I'd be going down there demanding to see the gun. At this point I'd be worried about them mucking with it. A place doing mods without asking is up there with shady car dealer shit. If they say you can't see it, raise hell. If they tell you they don't know where it at threaten to report it stolen. I'd also be threatening reports to the BBB. Shit is not on the up an up as far as I can see at this point and my gut is saying they are lying to you.
I was going to say. If it's a local shop, tell them they need to get you your firearm promptly or you'll be contacting the ATF about a stolen firearm.
No joke, fabricate a gas tube. They are fu**ing with you... BADLY. Probably many, many others too. Aboslute bull crap.
Did the gun shoot before you brought it to them? If so, there was no Missing Gas Tube...
And by promptly, it means while you stand there waiting for it to be returned to you. Don't let them BS you into: "Well, it's at the warehouse." Cool, get one of your workers to get it. Now. Clearly some effed up crap going on with this place. Please release their name so we know to avoid them like the plague. Also, give them the link to this page when all is said and done.
I would demand it back now, for free. They need to call first. Unless you agreed to the change in policy, it's false advertisement. I think it's safe to put the company at this point... well, maybe wait till you get it back.
It may be or sound stupid, but I am going to let them finish. I would rather be in a position where all I have to do is sue them based off of their guarantee or for any damages I can find that their fabrication caused.
I have contacted CMMG and they state they have never heard of an issue with the same fore grip on my gun absorbing any paint. They said if anything, it is the technician who is doing the application that would be at fault.
I'm waiting for a reply from Magpul. I think if I can prove that everything they are saying is false at the time of pick up they may do the right thing or at least know they have a future problem that they will have to deal with.
I will go through the BBB or the state before spending the $125 it takes to get them into small claims court.
Also... I just realized... It was day NINE on your OP.
It's now Day 27!?
Seriously, they are fu**ed in the head if they think that it takes 20+ days to get paint and do the job...
What kind of crackpot operation is this. Haha.
Please make sure, if they made you pay upfront, that you contest this cost before it leaves the allowed window. Some cards hold different windows. I would be calling right away if you used a card to verify the timeframe allowed to contest that charge.
I am fired up now over this, and it wasn't even my rifle.
I have not given them any money.
The rifle is not supposed to have a gas tube and I use it every weekend, so nothing should need to be done to make it FIRE.
I have not given them any money.
The rifle is not supposed to have a gas tube and I use it every weekend, so nothing should need to be done to make it FIRE.
Hmm. Only thing I can think of is them bending a metal rod to replace what would have been a gas tube. But, I am not sure if not having one would cause rotation of the handguards. But, still. Why not just put in a cheap gas tube instead of charge you to fabricate one? I dunno, just doesn't make a whole lotta sense from the outside perspective.
Maybe others will have better insight. I hope the best for you nonetheless, no matter what route you choose.
ETA: Just to clarify, I just looked at my upper, and my handguards have anti-rotation tabs on them to avoid spinning by holding against the end cap. Not sure mine is unique or CMMG is, but, YMMV.
Anyway, The only thing I can do is call them and tell them to stop.
I don't want it to seem like I am getting my Mom involved, but CMMG just asked for the company info so they could find out exactly what they did/talking about with the fore grip. I didn't notice CMMG did Cerakoting, but now they offered to get one of their guys give an expert opinion.
CMMG just emailed and said they are finding a fore grip that is the same as mine to do some tests on it. They did say the only paint that they use has to be oven cured and they don't know what type the gun shop is using so there may be differences.
SilentRecon
08-16-17, 13:18
I'm not even sure where to start with this... is this a legitimate cerakote company or some Joker working illegally in a garage on the side under the premises of a legitimate cerekoter?
Day 27 and enough cerakote for 6 guns!?? Fabricate a gas tube?
Please tell me this is all a joke.
At the very least, please inform people of this guys operation so we all know where not to go. You could save a lot of people a major headache at this point.
Sorry to hear your troubles. Sounds like a real winner your dealing with.
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Sadly it is a legit shop with a nice store front. They do claim to be cerakote and gunsmith experts.
Info will come...
AGAIN, Thank you all for your input. It started out as a dumb question and after all this time it has turned into a company that would rather Lie to a customer than make sure they are happy or admit their mistakes and do the right thing.
I've been pissed for a little too long today. I just got some linotype in so I'm going leave for a few hours and go melt some lead.
If they can just "fab up" a gas tube correctly to spec, they're wasting their damn shop time spraying Cerakote... yes I'm being sarcastic. These guys are total hacks. You need to get busy, it's time to cut the chatter and be sitting in the driveway... it still gets results-
I'd be interested to know the "professional" company behind this spectacle of service. I stumbled across a thread on Arfcom that was dedicated solely to one cerakote dealer that was giving tons of customers the same type of stories. One of the mods actually started a thread specifically to catalog all the members still waiting on their orders. Just wonder if it's the same guys.
Go. Get. The. Gun.
ETA...
Just to be clear, your rifle is a standard AR config, with a .22LR conversion? No weird .22 in a plastic "AR chassis"?
Not even sure it would matter, just want to clarify.
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Go. Get. The. Gun.
ETA...
Just to be clear, your rifle is a standard AR config, with a .22LR conversion? No weird .22 in a plastic "AR chassis"?
Not even sure it would matter, just want to clarify.
Here is the exact upper from CMMG - https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/upper-group-mk4le-22lr/
Here is the exact lower from PSA - http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine.html
The plastic parts are no different than anything else on the 8 AR's I have built outside of the military. If the dust cover were closed, I doubt there is a way to tell it is a conversion. The bolt in the rifle is all metal.
The last email I received from this company was not a solid no.
"Regarding the money back guarantee, as I said on the voicemail, your one gun used up an entire unopened bottle of paint that should have covered at least 6 guns. We ordered more paint as soon as it became obvious that the one bottle wouldn't be enough, but in a typical situation the one bottle would have been more than enough to meet the guaranteed turnaround time, even with the steps necessary to ensure the gun fired properly".
To me what they just said is a no, but I want to make sure. The moment I hear a firm No from them, I will release their name. Yesterday I asked, "Your not charging for the paint or the fabrication?"
For people recommending BBB: they aren't a government agency, and have no power. They're basically Yelp for old people. As with Yelp, they try to extort businesses in order to remove negative reviews.
That sure looks like a standard upper to me... With standard Carbine handguards...
I dunno. Must be missing something bubba, errr, this shop saw.
Hmm. Only thing I can think of is them bending a metal rod to replace what would have been a gas tube. But, I am not sure if not having one would cause rotation of the handguards. But, still. Why not just put in a cheap gas tube instead of charge you to fabricate one? I dunno, just doesn't make a whole lotta sense from the outside perspective.
Maybe others will have better insight. I hope the best for you nonetheless, no matter what route you choose.
ETA: Just to clarify, I just looked at my upper, and my handguards have anti-rotation tabs on them to avoid spinning by holding against the end cap. Not sure mine is unique or CMMG is, but, YMMV.
I'm completely ignorant of the 22 uppers but on mock-dissipators (midlength gas under a rifle length handguard) the handguard retainer is often held in place and kept from spinning by a roll-pin or something similar that's been tapped into the FSB where the gas-tube would normally go. (The handguard retainer has a hole in it that lines up with that so that it wont freely spin around the barrel.)
Perhaps they were monkeying around with whatever was keeping the handguard retainer in place and just very poorly described what they were attempting to do.
Here is the exact upper from CMMG - https://www.cmmginc.com/shop/upper-group-mk4le-22lr/
Here is the exact lower from PSA - http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine.html
The plastic parts are no different than anything else on the 8 AR's I have built outside of the military. If the dust cover were closed, I doubt there is a way to tell it is a conversion. The bolt in the rifle is all metal.
The last email I received from this company was not a solid no.
"Regarding the money back guarantee, as I said on the voicemail, your one gun used up an entire unopened bottle of paint that should have covered at least 6 guns. We ordered more paint as soon as it became obvious that the one bottle wouldn't be enough, but in a typical situation the one bottle would have been more than enough to meet the guaranteed turnaround time, even with the steps necessary to ensure the gun fired properly".
To me what they just said is a no, but I want to make sure. The moment I hear a firm No from them, I will release their name. Yesterday I asked, "Your not charging for the paint or the fabrication?"
I don't know why, but I was under the impression you were new to ARs. Hell, if you've built 8 of them, then you know what's "what", lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know why, but I was under the impression you were new to ARs. Hell, if you've built 8 of them, then you know what's "what", lol.
I'm just used to keeping things in the simplest form so there is no misinterpretation. I have never had anything painted and would have never even given it a second thought without the offer they made. I'm good with black, and my wife and I really did this only as an inside joke because we have our own range and no one would ever see it.
I have to wonder what paint (a mixture of pigments, plastic and solvents) is doing to the plastic furniture it is "soaking" into. I can't imagine it would be chemically good for the plastic, and wonder what happens to all of the stuff that soaked into the plastic when you heat it up to 250° to cure. I would think it would make the plastic denatured and brittle.
There is no way the plastic is absorbing that much paint. The only way that it's taking so much paint is because the paint is incompatible with the surface being painted. In this case, that means the surface had contaminants from being improperly or incorrectly prepped. That's on the shop, not you.
They're giving you the run-arounds. By not taking ownership of the problem, they are being unprofessional and unethical
I just sent this email out.
It's been more than 24+ hours since my last message so I guess I am not getting a response. I will try a different method.
On JULY 28 I started a forum thread*at M4Carbine.net when you told me that my rifle soaked up an entire bottle of paint to see what others thought about what I was being told. I have yet to find a single person who says it is possible for a rifle to soak up paint. Also, I have*yet to find anyone who thinks this is even close to acceptable.*You also said it soaked up the paint because of all the plastic that*it is made of, but there are no more plastic parts on my rifle than any other AR.
Here is the thread. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?198663-Plastic-absorbing-Cerakote
I contacted Cerakote and asked if this has ever happened and they emailed me a response saying this would be the first time they have ever heard of this happening.
I also contacted CMMG who sells the upper and they also said it would be the first time. They have even offered to take the same foregrip and paint it themselves to see if they can reproduce your results because you said it was because of the plastic.
I am waiting on a response from Magpul to see what they think. I would*think with how many rifles have magpul stocks, that*I should be able to google it and find more results than NONE.
The fabrication is a whole other thing. Hopefully you didn't actually modifiy my rifle where it didn't need it. I would have said no to any modification. A quick email with CMMG gave a response that*wouldn't require*any modification.
I wasn't out to get a free paint job, however it was not offered and*I was told something I don't believe to be true as the reason for the delay. Something may have happened that was out of your control but I doubt it was that I have a Special*One of a Kind, Magical*Rifle that somehow can soak up enough paint for 6 rifles and still needs more. I'm pretty offended by it.
I thought I had been a good enough customer to you guys that you wouldn't try to pull something like this on me, or anyone. I have not received a single update from you. The only times you have sent me anything was becasue I had to contact you. You promised 7 days with the rifle in front of you, you then email me on the 7th day at 3:30*and tell me it will be done "TODAY",*and then tell me exactly at 5:30pm on the 7th day while*I am already on the*interstate driving to your shop*that there is an issue. Why did it take so long? How could you have told me it would be done then, and*now it's*21 days later?*I'm beyond tired of waiting for my rifle to be returned. Finish it or give it back so I can have someone else do it.
Nick
OP - In one of your first posts you said they told you "your gun used up a bottle and half of product". The quote from their email states, "it used up an entire unopened bottle". So, did they actually give you two different excuses; one bottle vs. one and a half? While it could be an honest mistake or misquote, that seems to indicate they can't keep the details of their story straight.
Even without that discrepancy, you clearly know something is off. Regardless of what actually happened, they made a promise and they need to keep it. This is not how an honest and reputable shop should conduct itself. I realize you're probably being somewhat diplomatic still, because they posses your property. But, once it's back in your hands, I really hope you set them straight.
BTW. I was actually able to figure out the name of the place pretty easily. Well, I'm 99.9% certain it's them. Their work actually looks decent. Some of the other services seem a little questionable. I'm not a professional gunsmith, but they're offering some things I've never heard of that sound like some serious snake oil.
Hoping to soon see an update that you've got the rifle back. That it functions and looks no worse than when when you brought it in. And that you didn't spend a dime.
militarymoron
08-29-17, 14:56
Bumping thread to find out what the resolution was. OP, please post update on this.
Here is a long over due update.
Like an idiot after waiting 5 weeks to receive a cerakote paint job that was guaranteed to only take 7 days, I gave the rifle back to them because they promised they would go out of there way to fix the issues I had with their paint job. On weds (OCT 25) they will have had my rifle for an additional 2 months.
THE ISSUES:
1st - They finally finished the job on 8-25 and it was 2 slightly different but obvious colors. One color was smooth and the other was very rough, exactly like fine grit sand paper. I didn't go back into the store after seeing this in the daylight because I was pissed and just threw it into my truck. All the Polymer + 4 magazines and the upper including charging handle are a darker color and rough, and the lower and carry handle are smooth and lighter. I contacted them immediately after further inspection when I got the rifle home. They said this is because the polymer and Aluminum react to the paint in different ways. I was just told the reason for why the 4 aluminum parts turned out different was because, "different quality levels in aluminum."
2nd - I was quoted a price for a fully painted rifle, and they picked and chose what to paint and what not to, and ended up being about 75% painted. Through email and again in store I was asked when I brought it in if I was sure I wanted the whole gun painted and told them absolutely. Their solution to the problem is to sand all the rough areas down and repaint the whole gun. When I told them I was unhappy they said, " We shouldn't have given it back to you like that" and "I’m still willing to try if you’ll give us the chance. Please let me know and if it’s within my power, I’ll make it happen." I brought the rifle back in on 8-30.* Here is their latest of many responses to the problem with my rifle among several other potential reasons.
** Regarding the aluminum vs polymer question, this may help to understand why is taking so long:
** https://www.todayshomeowner.com/how-to-paint-aluminum-siding/
** Granted, we're not painting aluminum siding, but you can see that everything in painting is in starting with a clean palate.
I'm tired of excuses and didn't bother to waste my time on the link.
12 days ago (OCT 12) I asked for an update to the progress of my rifle and after a response on the 13th they said, "we'll let you know ASAP." After sending 2 messages a few days apart, (OCT 18 & OCT 21) I finally get the response, "I’ll check in with him again, last I checked, they were sanding everything still. There’s a LOT of nooks and crannies to get the paint out of. However, that was a while ago, so I need to see where they are now," and, "John and I are out of town next week, but the machine shop and retail showroom are open, so they’ll continue to work on it."
I sent them a message this past Sunday to every email I could find and their own internal messaging system before Noon and waited until Monday at Noon. I got no response but I noticed that they are putting up posts on Facebook. I contact them and they send me a long 10 paragraph response and in all that time they still didn't post an update on the progress of my rifle. I made a request to pick my rifle up on their next business day ( October 25th) whether it was finished or not, and was told, "Hey Nick! Yes, I am out of town, but the retail and the machine shop are still open. They are continuing to work on your rifle, but have instruction that they can't turn custom or repaired firearms over to customers while we're gone for liability reasons. John needs to go over anything before it goes out the door add his name is the main one on the insurance and the FFL."* They didn't give me a return date so I assume it will be the 1st of Nov. I kind of go off,
My response,
I am beyond done. You write me back a long message and still give me NO update. You keep telling me you will keep in touch and you DON'T. I'm Done, I'm Done, I'm Done. I was getting ready to call the police because you said you wouldn't release MY rifle back to me. However, I will accept the excuse and I will wait until you get back to town and I will be there on the 1st at 11AM. All I hear are excuses and I can't handle any more. I will see you on the 1st for my rifle and 4 magazines.
No response.
This is where we are and they still insist that it is still my rifles fault and nothing to do with the application. I'm afraid now that since they won't return my rifle this week, they will just buy a can of rust-oleum and do a quick fix.
You have much more patience than I.
First time is a screw up? No second chances.
SilentRecon
10-24-17, 17:10
Before you do anything else, PLEASE tell us the name of this joker and company so we are not scammed like you. I’m sorry you are taking this with zero lube but they are one pathetic entity obviously start to non-finish
tigershilone
10-24-17, 17:42
OMG, sanding?!?! Really, sanding? OP get your rifle back immediately before you have more problems.
NO WHERE in the cerakote process is sanding used, lol. Are they using a dremel too? NIC industries have a great video on using their product on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuqo8f_7foU&list=PLc-LS1ClosK58D8YgPaxy6gh979aw-kqN. There is the use of media blasting to strip parts, not sanding. And it is very specific as to what media and grit is used, glass beads or sand don't cut it. Aluminum cerakotes and paints beautifully when properly prepped, there is no magic "cause it's 'luminum, very hard to paint just like siding" excuse. I really fear that if your parts were hard anodized they have had that coating ruined by now.
They DRY-Shot your upper, that is why it has a texture like sand paper on it. They didn't get a wet enough coating which creates small nubs that feel like grit. Sounds like they shot your upper and lower at different times as well, which is why there is a color and texture difference. I cant remember if this is the H series (heat cure in oven) or the C series (air cure) they are using, but if they are using H series then they probably mixed the hardener/base ratios differently between the upper and lower causing the color change, as slight variances in hardener ratio change color and sheen significantly. Or if it was C series, they didn't prep properly and/or insufficient paint or both to get a color difference.
This "applicator shop" has no clue what they are doing. I'm sure NIC industries loves having their cerakote product take a hit like this because of unqualified applicators treating it like house paint.
Please tell me you haven't given them any money during this process!
Fighting Sheep Dog
530 Edgemoor Rd,
Powell, TN 37849
865-730-0585
I hate to put their name out there but I am sure they're bouncing my rifle off the walls anyway. They would never do that and I'm just joking in case a business wanted to use slander as a defense.
I have been told that there has been lots of sanding and blasting and that my rifle is in pieces now and that is why I can't pick it up until the 1st. I asked for a picture of it disassembled since I have never been given an update.
No money will leave my hands. They have requested that I come in to pick it up an hour before they open and I've decided to show up during normal business hours. In my tainted mind I imagine that 1. they don't want any customers to see it, & or 2. they think I will sign a release leaving them at no fault, and don't want to risk a customer seeing a blow up.
I have pictures, but I don't remember how to post them now that my photobucket trial is over. I'll figure it out tomorrow and post a picture of the color difference.
Wow that name is a huge shocker.
I get a lot of my guns Cerakoted. Never in my life have I seen anything like this. Hell my local shop can turn a full handgun around in a day and a half and a rifle in 2 or 3 days.
I am curious to see how this finishes out. I checked out their facebook page and it is exactly what I expected. Lots of Political posts with a few gun posts mixed in but nothing about shop services, no "Check out this gun we did" and nothing about guns they sell.
Are the colors that different in person? The upper looks gold.
militarymoron
10-25-17, 08:43
Looks like it got a SCAR paint job.
I added another picture out in the sun. It looks worse at an angle so I made sure you could see it straight on also.
SilentRecon
10-25-17, 08:52
What cerakote color is that supposed to even be? I’m actually a big fan of a scar fde mixmatch but that upper looks like candy paint Donk gold
48205
48207
Yikes... Burnt Bronze is a very picky color to spray but that is horrible. My guess is that they tried to spray and bake the parts separately, or worse they ran out of material and tried to add as they went and totally FUBAR'd the mixture.
It is supposed to be gold. Wouldn't have been as big of an issue if it wasn't rough on the hands. This is my wife's rifle and it was way too rough even for me. After the long wait on the 7 day guarantee waiting for more gold paint, I asked if they could just paint it Burnt bronze or back to black and they refused. As I said before it was basically a joke and that is why we wanted it painted 100%.
I’ve already called them a hack, and I’m going to stick by that... now let me share the love:
Learn from this, saving a few bucks, or a couple weeks wait time will typically bite your ass. There are plenty of people doing this all over the country with very solid track records...
NIC Industries used to be a great company to deal with, say the first 5-7 yrs. They are not however, above shipping out junk coatings...
Any coating heavy with metallics can be challenging and I’m guessing this was maybe their first rodeo with them. The “deal” will always come with drama. Better luck next time.
48205
48207
I have seen some bad jobs in the past but this one takes the cake.
It's definitely a learning experience. Their prices are almost double what other companies are charging. The original quote was $200 and would have been $345 at any other time, and one of the local certified cerakoters was charging $250 + $ for magazines. I had no idea to look and see if they were authorized cerakote dealers. I never thought I was really saving any money. I was not looking to get a rifle painted, but they sent out an email with the price cut and I just thought they must be the best if they can charge double at any other given time. My wife and I go to the range weekly and thought 7 days wouldn't even cause any problems with our range time, and it has now been over 3 months since my wife has been able to shoot her primary firearm and now this company has ruined the one rifle that made her feel really comfortable. I've been using them for firearm transfers for years and picked them because they are veteran owned, I joined the Army at 17, and am now retired at 38, and have seen that veteran owned is beginning to mean very little and think they can treat you like shit anytime they feel like it, it's more of a marketing ploy than anything. TN Arms company has done the exact same thing to me in the past and they are veteran owned also. I never go for outside services but when it is a company you trust it's hard to say no when my wife researched and decided it would be fun to get it cerakoted in "Mr. T" gold. I knew the gun would probably look silly, but we have a private range and it used to be a rifle we would never consider selling.
fightingsheepdog
10-25-17, 13:04
This is Fighting Sheep Dog.
We are happy to answer any and all questions regarding the complexities of the gold gun or any other work we've done. But not on a forum.
We'll also take questions on a one-on-one basis - none of which will involve the divulging of personal information.
Despite the speed at which everyone was quick to throw us under the bus, we have behaved ethically (just not as promptly as this particular customer would have liked) and we will NOT discuss specific details of a customer or their project, regardless of whether they're happy with us or not.
In the meantime, this will be our only public post regarding this issue.
1. No firearms were bounced off the walls or any other form of "humorous" mistreatment of firearms. In order to strip the color off the gun and prepare it for the work we needed to do, it had to be completely disassembled. Yman demanded yesterday that it be returned and we weren't going to give it back in pieces.
2. We didn't charge, nor do we intend to charge for this particular project. That was never up for discussion. He isn't happy, therefore we aren't charging anything. The end.
3. We are out of town on business and no firearms are being returned to customers until we return as we are liable for all work done and need to ensure that everything is done to our standards first.
4. We asked Yman to come in before we open so that we could address all of his concerns in a private environment where everyone could speak freely and go over what work was done and where we left off.
What we looked at as exclusivity, he looked at as some sort of shame or embarrassment on our part. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
5. We were happy to complete the work for him - at no charge - in order to ensure he was happy. Not anymore, of course. But until yesterday, we were.
Finally, we were CLOSED yesterday. Whether in town or not, we are not at Yman's beck and call in order to send him a photo of his firearm at a moments notice on a day that we aren't open.
Again, anyone may message us privately and we will answer questions on the gun, paint, or other work - but nothing regarding the customer or our correspondence with him. Regardless of how much of that is posted here or elsewhere, we still honor our customers' privacy and choose not to disclose that on our end.
V/R,
Fighting Sheep Dog
Semper Fidelis
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
SilentRecon
10-25-17, 13:18
This is Fighting Sheep Dog.
We are happy to answer any and all questions regarding the complexities of the gold gun or any other work we've done. But not on a forum.
We'll also take questions on a one-on-one basis - none of which will involve the divulging of personal information.
Despite the speed at which everyone was quick to throw us under the bus, we have behaved ethically (just not as promptly as this particular customer would have liked) and we will NOT discuss specific details of a customer or their project, regardless of whether they're happy with us or not.
In the meantime, this will be our only public post regarding this issue.
1. No firearms were bounced off the walls or any other form of "humorous" mistreatment of firearms. In order to strip the color off the gun and prepare it for the work we needed to do, it had to be completely disassembled. Yman demanded yesterday that it be returned and we weren't going to give it back in pieces.
2. We didn't charge, nor do we intend to charge for this particular project. That was never up for discussion. He isn't happy, therefore we aren't charging anything. The end.
3. We are out of town on business and no firearms are being returned to customers until we return as we are liable for all work done and need to ensure that everything is done to our standards first.
4. We asked Yman to come in before we open so that we could address all of his concerns in a private environment where everyone could speak freely and go over what work was done and where we left off.
What we looked at as exclusivity, he looked at as some sort of shame or embarrassment on our part. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
5. We were happy to complete the work for him - at no charge - in order to ensure he was happy. Not anymore, of course. But until yesterday, we were.
Finally, we were CLOSED yesterday. Whether in town or not, we are not at Yman's beck and call in order to send him a photo of his firearm at a moments notice on a day that we aren't open.
Again, anyone may message us privately and we will answer questions on the gun, paint, or other work - but nothing regarding the customer or our correspondence with him. Regardless of how much of that is posted here or elsewhere, we still honor our customers' privacy and choose not to disclose that on our end.
V/R,
Fighting Sheep Dog
Semper Fidelis
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Sorry but this all Sounds like convenient excuses. You chimed in on a thread now you will have to answer more than this. Address all the false lingo you presented him with his rifle soaking up 10x more cerakote, the ridiculous timeframe, the “sanding” parts, and the complete failure cerakote job.
If you had true integrity, you would address this, complete his rifle as promised with a decent cerakote job, and then not charge him. He came here with legitimate concerns as would anyone and what you present back is nothing. I’m sorry but I’m just going to tell it like it is. When a company chimes back in on defense of a customers mistreatment, it has to be Worth it’s salt. GOOD LUCK!
This is Fighting Sheep Dog.
2. We didn't charge, nor do we intend to charge for this particular project. That was never up for discussion. He isn't happy, therefore we aren't charging anything. The end.
5. We were happy to complete the work for him - at no charge - in order to ensure he was happy. Not anymore, of course. But until yesterday, we were.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Points 2 and 5 sound like quite a contradiction. I would hope there will be no charge for anything. I certainly wouldn't pay after this mess.
So I never demanded a picture immediately for the disassembled rifle. I'm actually still waiting for it. I asked for it yesterday at 3pm and I haven't heard anything back from you in 24 hrs. Here is exactly where our conversation left off and not a word since.
It sounds to me like it hasn't been touched yet. So in all actuality there has been no repair and no liability
Can I get a picture of it disassembled???
- Fighting Sheep Dog
- Nick, I'm sorry that we've eroded your confidence in us to the point that you believe I'm outright lying to you.
-
- However, I'm also in a meeting and still answering your questions as best as I can.
- It has been touched. Sanded, blasted, and is in pieces. I'll reach out to the machine shop to ask them to send me a photo.
I will love to dissect FSD response when I can get to a computer.
This is Fighting Sheep Dog.
We are happy to answer any and all questions regarding the complexities of the gold gun or any other work we've done. But not on a forum.
We'll also take questions on a one-on-one basis - none of which will involve the divulging of personal information.
Despite the speed at which everyone was quick to throw us under the bus, we have behaved ethically (just not as promptly as this particular customer would have liked) and we will NOT discuss specific details of a customer or their project, regardless of whether they're happy with us or not.
In the meantime, this will be our only public post regarding this issue.
1. No firearms were bounced off the walls or any other form of "humorous" mistreatment of firearms. In order to strip the color off the gun and prepare it for the work we needed to do, it had to be completely disassembled. Yman demanded yesterday that it be returned and we weren't going to give it back in pieces.
2. We didn't charge, nor do we intend to charge for this particular project. That was never up for discussion. He isn't happy, therefore we aren't charging anything. The end.
3. We are out of town on business and no firearms are being returned to customers until we return as we are liable for all work done and need to ensure that everything is done to our standards first.
4. We asked Yman to come in before we open so that we could address all of his concerns in a private environment where everyone could speak freely and go over what work was done and where we left off.
What we looked at as exclusivity, he looked at as some sort of shame or embarrassment on our part. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
5. We were happy to complete the work for him - at no charge - in order to ensure he was happy. Not anymore, of course. But until yesterday, we were.
Finally, we were CLOSED yesterday. Whether in town or not, we are not at Yman's beck and call in order to send him a photo of his firearm at a moments notice on a day that we aren't open.
Again, anyone may message us privately and we will answer questions on the gun, paint, or other work - but nothing regarding the customer or our correspondence with him. Regardless of how much of that is posted here or elsewhere, we still honor our customers' privacy and choose not to disclose that on our end.
V/R,
Fighting Sheep Dog
Semper Fidelis
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I give FSD permission to release any correspondence they want on any forum or site
It has now been 13 days that you have ignored my request for an update, ALL you had to say was something like 50% there and everything would have been cool. I don't care if it is in pieces because it is going straight to a certified cerakoter to get it in an acceptable condition and will be disassembled by them probably at a cost.
"just not as promptly as this particular customer would have liked" You have got to be kidding. I waited 6 weeks to even ask for an update while you were supposed to be repairing your paint job, which took 5 weeks, not 7 days, and I'm the one who is being unreasonable?
OK,
1. It was a joke like I stated, and yes I have demanded my rifle back. After 2 months you still can not give me a clear update other than "it's been touched"
2. I want to know who is going to pay to bring my rifle back to the same condition when I brought it to you? Court would suck if we had to go there.
3. I'm patently waiting, as soon as you told me your out of town I have not asked again.
4. You have this situation to be ashamed of. You did not once say in that long message that you did anything wrong. How can you tell me you screwed up and not take any responsibility. Like I said earlier, it is going to a certified cerakoter. Any and all repairs will be at their discretion, however it would probably be cheaper to buy new polymer.
5. You made a 7 day guarantee. You damaged the rifle and you need to make it right. Your ignoring my requests for an update is a breach of any contract we had. If I were in your shoes, My rifle would be the ONLY #1 priority, not your last.
Beck and call??? You have got to be kidding me. I'm amazed that you would type that out. Funny how just now on facebook I asked your meaning and you changed the subject.
I already commented on the photo. I'm told they are still waiting for the photo themselves, but aren't they THEIR employees??? I would be knee deep if my employee blew me off. A photo takes 2 seconds in 2017. It is not that big of a request.
I will send all correspondents to anyone who wants them.
It's sad that FSD Knew about this forum and didn't reply until I put their name out there and then makes complaints about me. That huge message and I can't find one sentence where they claim fault for anything that has happened.
Thank You.
Can I get a picture of it disassembled???
No, why would they owe you a picture of it disassembled? They don't owe you that, nor do they owe you pictures of the finishing process, or pictures of anything else.
What they owe you is your weapon back, either coated or uncoated. If it is uncoated, they could, and probably should simply state they no longer wish to do business with you. That cuts things clean on their end, and while you might not like it, it is well within their rights.
The problems arise when you are NOT given your property back, and from the information given on both sides, both parties are in agreement this has not been done.
militarymoron
10-25-17, 15:58
My comments in BOLD below
This is Fighting Sheep Dog.
We are happy to answer any and all questions regarding the complexities of the gold gun or any other work we've done. But not on a forum.
Why not? Other companies are happy to answer questions here. It also saves you time as many people will have the same question.
We'll also take questions on a one-on-one basis - none of which will involve the divulging of personal information.
No one's asking for personal information.
Despite the speed at which everyone was quick to throw us under the bus, we have behaved ethically (just not as promptly as this particular customer would have liked) and we will NOT discuss specific details of a customer or their project, regardless of whether they're happy with us or not.
It's been three months. You didn't deliver as promised. That's unethical. The timeline is unacceptable for ANY customer. Why are you on here, then, if not to discuss this particular's customer's issues? Why come on here just to say 'We will not discuss anything here'.
In the meantime, this will be our only public post regarding this issue.
1. No firearms were bounced off the walls or any other form of "humorous" mistreatment of firearms. In order to strip the color off the gun and prepare it for the work we needed to do, it had to be completely disassembled. Yman demanded yesterday that it be returned and we weren't going to give it back in pieces.
Irrelevant - you've had 3 months to complete this project.
2. We didn't charge, nor do we intend to charge for this particular project. That was never up for discussion. He isn't happy, therefore we aren't charging anything. The end.
That is the least you should do in this situation
3. We are out of town on business and no firearms are being returned to customers until we return as we are liable for all work done and need to ensure that everything is done to our standards first.
Irrelevant - you've had 3 months to complete this project.
4. We asked Yman to come in before we open so that we could address all of his concerns in a private environment where everyone could speak freely and go over what work was done and where we left off.
What we looked at as exclusivity, he looked at as some sort of shame or embarrassment on our part. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
If you have nothing to be ashamed of, do it during normal business hours.
5. We were happy to complete the work for him - at no charge - in order to ensure he was happy. Not anymore, of course. But until yesterday, we were.
I don't understand this statement. Your commitment to your customers end if they voice their displeasure over your incompetence?
Finally, we were CLOSED yesterday. Whether in town or not, we are not at Yman's beck and call in order to send him a photo of his firearm at a moments notice on a day that we aren't open.
Irrelevant - you've had 3 months to complete this project.
Again, anyone may message us privately and we will answer questions on the gun, paint, or other work - but nothing regarding the customer or our correspondence with him. Regardless of how much of that is posted here or elsewhere, we still honor our customers' privacy and choose not to disclose that on our end.
Your customer has already aired his part - you're not protecting his privacy; you're trying to protect yourself.
V/R,
Fighting Sheep Dog
Semper Fidelis
Thank you for your service.
SilentRecon
10-25-17, 15:58
Yes indeed. ^^^^ It’s actually very comical and lame response once their name was given to try and save face.
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We are happy to answer any and all questions regarding the complexities of the gold gun or any other work we've done. But not on a forum.
We'll also take questions on a one-on-one basis - none of which will involve the divulging of personal information.
Since you came here to state you will not reply on a forum, and have not stated you are willing to give the weapon back to him, the next logical step would be for people to post their questions, complaints, or views on other venues in order to gather a response from you?
You may want to state who it is who is actually posting here to avoid any confusion.
http://fightingsheepdog.com/about-us/fsd-bill-of-rights/
FSD Customer Bill of Rights
At Fighting Sheep Dog, we realize that guns don’t buy guns. Ammo doesn’t buy ammo. PEOPLE buy guns. PEOPLE buy ammo. For that reason, we have established the FSD Customer Bill of Rights to show you, our customer, the Level 10 Experience we strive to give you each and every time you do business with us:
You should never feel like you’re interrupting or bothering us when you stop by the shop or call us to check on the status of your repair/refinish.
You should expect our gunsmiths to return your firearm as clean (or cleaner) and properly lubricated after they’ve finished with their work as when your firearm came into our shop.
You deserve a gunsmith who is knowledgeable, efficient, pleasant, and of the highest moral character to repair/refinish your firearms.
You deserve full satisfaction with our products and services or we will redo the repair/refinish, free.
No, why would they owe you a picture of it disassembled? They don't owe you that, nor do they owe you pictures of the finishing process, or pictures of anything else.
They definitely don't owe me a picture, but they told me they were going to send one. I asked once and haven't asked again. It's just one more thing they promised and can't deliver.
They definitely don't owe me a picture, but they told me they were going to send one. I asked once and haven't asked again. It's just one more thing they promised and can't deliver.
The problem is that you are bringing up things that mean nothing instead of concentrating on the larger picture, and it only diminishes your cause.
ETA- You appear to have a legit complaint, but if you check the BBB, you will find this company plays games with peoples words in their replies. Stick with the facts that matter, such as, "They said they would do the job in X amount of days. X amount of days later they are refusing to return the weapon".
The problem is that you are bringing up things that mean nothing instead of concentrating on the larger picture, and it only diminishes your cause.
ETA- You appear to have a legit complaint, but if you check the BBB, you will find this company plays games with peoples words in their replies. Stick with the facts that matter, such as, "They said they would do the job in X amount of days. X amount of days later they are refusing to return the weapon".
That makes sense.
Wow, this is sad. Made for a good read but I feel sorry for you!
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Paladinius
10-26-17, 07:53
Edited
That makes sense.
So where are we on this as of this moment? There is no doubt they are aware of the larger conflict and negative attention this is bringing to themselves. Before anything escalates further, and it certainly can, I would like to hear what the status is as of right now.
The company acknowledges they have had your weapon for roughly 3 months, and have not returned it. It is simple to escalate things to a much broader and more intensive outcome with negative repercussions for them. I would imagine they either aren't aware of this, or don't expect it to happen.
Currently they have stopped communication and I have to wait until Nov 1st before I can get the rifle back because the owners are out of town. The business is still open during their absence.
Currently they have stopped communication and I have to wait until Nov 1st before I can get the rifle back because the owners are out of town. The business is still open during their absence.
Go down to the business, ask for your weapon back. If the business is open, they are able to do that much.
Go down to the business, ask for your weapon back. If the business is open, they are able to do that much.
This is their response when I asked if I could pick it up on weds which is their 1st business day of the week.
Hey Nick! Yes, I am out of town, but the retail and the machine shop are still open. They are continuing to work on your rifle, but have instruction that they can't turn custom or repaired firearms over to customers while we're gone for liability reasons. John needs to go over anything before it goes out the door add his name is the main one on the insurance and the FFL.
This is their response when I asked if I could pick it up on weds which is their 1st business day of the week.
Hey Nick! Yes, I am out of town, but the retail and the machine shop are still open. They are continuing to work on your rifle, but have instruction that they can't turn custom or repaired firearms over to customers while we're gone for liability reasons. John needs to go over anything before it goes out the door add his name is the main one on the insurance and the FFL.
Why does that matter? The gun is already yours. No forms are being filled out. Sounds like even more bs to me.
Why does that matter? The gun is already yours. No forms are being filled out. Sounds like even more bs to me.
Agreed. I always try to give a company the benefit of the doubt. But their reply here really seemed evasive and lends a lot of weight to the OP.
SilentRecon
10-27-17, 12:09
Fist off, NO FFL can hold your firearm unless there is outstanding debt on services rendered or a FFL firearm transfer . He stated he will not be charging you in writing-Therefore, any debt is void. They can NOT hold your firearm from you no matter what his policy on “looking over work” entails for liability .
Unless you specifically signed a document when you relinquished the firearm and it specifically states that no firearms will be relinquished to you until approval from FFL holder after said work was performed, go get your firearm, walk out the door, and do not look back.
It’s not even up for debate.
Here’s a legitimate question. Since they essentially messed up your rifle could the company be held responsible and be made to replace your rifle, or could they have to pay someone else to finish it to bring it back to original condition?
This is their response when I asked if I could pick it up on weds which is their 1st business day of the week.
Hey Nick! Yes, I am out of town, but the retail and the machine shop are still open. They are continuing to work on your rifle, but have instruction that they can't turn custom or repaired firearms over to customers while we're gone for liability reasons. John needs to go over anything before it goes out the door add his name is the main one on the insurance and the FFL.
I thought I had been clear, but evidently I was not. YOU NEED TO GO DOWN WITH YOUR ID AND REQUEST YOUR WEAPON. I don't care what someone emailed, texted, or told you. You have NOT gone to the store and been turned away. Go down, make them say no, then take down the persons name, position with the company, and date and time of occurrence. Verify with them the date your weapon was dropped off. I'm not trying to treat you like a child here, but as a police officer who has handled thousands, if not tens of thousands of disputes, complaints, never mind out right thefts, there is certain information that is needed.
Right now, the simple answer is that you have never gone to pick your weapon up.
I don't see where they state you will be refused your weapon in their customer bill of rights at the below text....
http://fightingsheepdog.com/about-us/fsd-bill-of-rights/
Before you go down, if I were you, I would change the title of this thread to something simple like "Fighting Sheep Dog Complaint", or "Fighting Sheep Dog stole my firearm", or "Fighting Sheep Dog ripped me off". Why? Because search engines will lock onto the company name when people search them to see if they are a credible company or not. Right now, this thread isn't in the search engines because of the title. The BBB complaints already show this is not the first time something like this has happened, and they used the same excuses to blow the complaints off.
Please do this.
1- Change the thread title first. Then update your first post to reflect how long it has been you have been denied your weapon, that way people don't have to read page after page wondering.
2- Next, call the store, ask for the manager and let them know you are coming down with ID at X O'CLOCK to pick up your weapon. Let them know you are pressed for time so you are giving them a few hours notice. Let them know it doesn't matter if the weapon is disassembled, half done, or totally complete. Ask who you should ask for so you can get it done in short order. Don't listen to, argue with, or be disturbed if the person tells you no or asks you to wait a few days. Be punctual and arrive on time (which means 5 minutes early in the store at the counter). Ask for the person you were told to ask for, or for the manager, and let them know you called ahead. If you were told not to come down, ask for the manager, and tell them you are there to pick up your weapon just like you said you would. Be nice and polite regardless of what happens. Take a notebook or paper and write things down while you are there.
At this point, they are now forced to give your weapon back, or deny you your legal right to your property.
3- Come back and post when you have completed the above, and we will help you out from there. Right now you are emotionally invested in this (which is understandable), but I'm not, so it is easier for me to see things clearly. What we are doing above is laying a foundation for what is to come. The rest is easy, and it is where things start to get heavily damaging for the company. Based on their comments here, as well as yours, and the complaints on the Better Business Bureau, you are more credible.
I'm sure that Fighting Sheep Dog is reading this, so I will state clearly and politely, you guys need to release his personal property to him immediately to be done with this. I understand that may mean in a box of parts, but once he has gone down in person and been denied his firearm, things have suddenly gotten very very bad for you. I'm sure you are on great terms with your compliance officer from BATF, but it is going to be hard to explain why a report has been filled out for a stolen firearm that your company had last. That is the tip of the iceburg, because it can and will get much much worse. The articles written about you, the websites that look for reviews about you, the Better Business Bureau, and many other resources are legally and ethically available for defrauded persons to list their personal experiences and complaints. Not only that, but the media often takes a dim view of theft, especially when the topic of firearms is already swirling like a typhoon. Magazines, like the ones I write for also are always interested in stories which can aid their viewers in how to have good experiences, as well as what and who to look out for. Heck, a reasonable person might go to the police or regional task force and let them know they think their weapon is possibly being used or has been sold to facilitate criminal activity. A reasonable officer or agent may think a warrant is in order to locate lost or stolen firearms. A reasonable team would take strong precautions raiding a firearms business which appears to be up to no good. The media however, is not reasonable, and would probably make sure it hit headlines for quite a long time.
ETA- I know the above is a lot of reading, but I think most people can see where things have gone too far, and something isn't right with the entire picture. Something is wrong, and if his weapon was lost, stolen, or something else, they need to make it right quickly. I think we all understand there are bad employees who steal, but once a company covers for them, they are complicit.
I thought I had been clear, but evidently I was not. YOU NEED TO GO DOWN WITH YOUR ID AND REQUEST YOUR WEAPON. I don't care what someone emailed, texted, or told you. You have NOT gone to the store and been turned away. Go down, make them say no, then take down the persons name, position with the company, and date and time of occurrence. Verify with them the date your weapon was dropped off. I'm not trying to treat you like a child here, but as a police officer who has handled thousands, if not tens of thousands of disputes, complaints, never mind out right thefts, there is certain information that is needed.
Right now, the simple answer is that you have never gone to pick your weapon up.
I don't see where they state you will be refused your weapon in their customer bill of rights at the below text....
http://fightingsheepdog.com/about-us/fsd-bill-of-rights/
Before you go down, if I were you, I would change the title of this thread to something simple like "Fighting Sheep Dog Complaint", or "Fighting Sheep Dog stole my firearm", or "Fighting Sheep Dog ripped me off". Why? Because search engines will lock onto the company name when people search them to see if they are a credible company or not. Right now, this thread isn't in the search engines because of the title. The BBB complaints already show this is not the first time something like this has happened, and they used the same excuses to blow the complaints off.
Please do this.
1- Change the thread title first. Then update your first post to reflect how long it has been you have been denied your weapon, that way people don't have to read page after page wondering.
2- Next, call the store, ask for the manager and let them know you are coming down with ID at X O'CLOCK to pick up your weapon. Let them know you are pressed for time so you are giving them a few hours notice. Let them know it doesn't matter if the weapon is disassembled, half done, or totally complete. Ask who you should ask for so you can get it done in short order. Don't listen to, argue with, or be disturbed if the person tells you no or asks you to wait a few days. Be punctual and arrive on time (which means 5 minutes early in the store at the counter). Ask for the person you were told to ask for, or for the manager, and let them know you called ahead. If you were told not to come down, ask for the manager, and tell them you are there to pick up your weapon just like you said you would. Be nice and polite regardless of what happens. Take a notebook or paper and write things down while you are there.
At this point, they are now forced to give your weapon back, or deny you your legal right to your property.
3- Come back and post when you have completed the above, and we will help you out from there. Right now you are emotionally invested in this (which is understandable), but I'm not, so it is easier for me to see things clearly. What we are doing above is laying a foundation for what is to come. The rest is easy, and it is where things start to get heavily damaging for the company. Based on their comments here, as well as yours, and the complaints on the Better Business Bureau, you are more credible.
I'm sure that Fighting Sheep Dog is reading this, so I will state clearly and politely, you guys need to release his personal property to him immediately to be done with this. I understand that may mean in a box of parts, but once he has gone down in person and been denied his firearm, things have suddenly gotten very very bad for you. I'm sure you are on great terms with your compliance officer from BATF, but it is going to be hard to explain why a report has been filled out for a stolen firearm that your company had last. That is the tip of the iceburg, because it can and will get much much worse. The articles written about you, the websites that look for reviews about you, the Better Business Bureau, and many other resources are legally and ethically available for defrauded persons to list their personal experiences and complaints. Not only that, but the media often takes a dim view of theft, especially when the topic of firearms is already swirling like a typhoon. Magazines, like the ones I write for also are always interested in stories which can aid their viewers in how to have good experiences, as well as what and who to look out for. Heck, a reasonable person might go to the police or regional task force and let them know they think their weapon is possibly being used or has been sold to facilitate criminal activity. A reasonable officer or agent may think a warrant is in order to locate lost or stolen firearms. A reasonable team would take strong precautions raiding a firearms business which appears to be up to no good. The media however, is not reasonable, and would probably make sure it hit headlines for quite a long time.
ETA- I know the above is a lot of reading, but I think most people can see where things have gone too far, and something isn't right with the entire picture. Something is wrong, and if his weapon was lost, stolen, or something else, they need to make it right quickly. I think we all understand there are bad employees who steal, but once a company covers for them, they are complicit.
Damn, problem solved, problem staying solved, Stickman leads the way!!👍
Damn, problem solved, problem staying solved, Stickman leads the way!!��
I work with a lot of companies, and I understand that no one or company is perfect. However, when a contract exists for a 7 day return, and someone is stuck for 252 days without their weapon.... something isn't right. Whether it was stolen by a bad employee, damaged beyond repair, or something else, all that is happening is problems are compiling. It is hard to sit back and watch someone get screwed, especially when the company has already made the acknowledgments they have.
Lastly, what happens to other customers? How many times have similar events happened? We know this isn't an isolated complaint based off the BBB reports.
5.56 Bonded SP
10-27-17, 17:30
I would take back possession of the weapon, tell the company after you take back possession of YOUR PROPERTY that you aren't paying them because they did not complete their end of the contract.
Don't pay them shit, and get your damn rifle back. You are a full grown man, and nobody has the right to take your property away from you.
They have no legal right to take possession of your property, and they have no legal right to charge you money for a job they did not complete. If it went to small claims court, you would win the case. By the sounds of it, they probably messed up your gun and are trying to buy back time to fix their mistake.
If the shop tries to deny you taking possession of your property, call your local PD or your Lawyer. The Law will be on your side regarding this situation.
I'm pretty sick of firearm companies, and gunsmiths keeping peoples guns for months on end, only to return it in the same condition for which it was supposed to be worked on. Don't let it slide, because they will do it to more people.
I work with a lot of companies, and I understand that no one or company is perfect. However, when a contract exists for a 7 day return, and someone is stuck for 252 days without their weapon.... something isn't right. Whether it was stolen by a bad employee, damaged beyond repair, or something else, all that is happening is problems are compiling. It is hard to sit back and watch someone get screwed, especially when the company has already made the acknowledgments they have.
Lastly, what happens to other customers? How many times have similar events happened? We know this isn't an isolated complaint based off the BBB reports.
Holy shit it has been almost a year?!?!?!?!?!
F those people, take this to court and sue for the value of your rifle + Lawyer fees.
SilentRecon
10-27-17, 17:34
I work with a lot of companies, and I understand that no one or company is perfect. However, when a contract exists for a 7 day return, and someone is stuck for 252 days without their weapon.... something isn't right. Whether it was stolen by a bad employee, damaged beyond repair, or something else, all that is happening is problems are compiling. It is hard to sit back and watch someone get screwed, especially when the company has already made the acknowledgments they have.
Lastly, what happens to other customers? How many times have similar events happened? We know this isn't an isolated complaint based off the BBB reports.
Precision
I work with a lot of companies, and I understand that no one or company is perfect. However, when a contract exists for a 7 day return, and someone is stuck for 252 days without their weapon.... something isn't right. Whether it was stolen by a bad employee, damaged beyond repair, or something else, all that is happening is problems are compiling. It is hard to sit back and watch someone get screwed, especially when the company has already made the acknowledgments they have.
Lastly, what happens to other customers? How many times have similar events happened? We know this isn't an isolated complaint based off the BBB reports.
Oh yea, I am completely on board Stick... I told him to be in the driveway long ago...
Sorry, It's been 3.5 months. I don't know where the longer time frame came from.
5.56 Bonded SP
10-27-17, 17:49
I thought I had been clear, but evidently I was not. YOU NEED TO GO DOWN WITH YOUR ID AND REQUEST YOUR WEAPON. I don't care what someone emailed, texted, or told you. You have NOT gone to the store and been turned away. Go down, make them say no, then take down the persons name, position with the company, and date and time of occurrence. Verify with them the date your weapon was dropped off. I'm not trying to treat you like a child here, but as a police officer who has handled thousands, if not tens of thousands of disputes, complaints, never mind out right thefts, there is certain information that is needed.
Right now, the simple answer is that you have never gone to pick your weapon up.
I don't see where they state you will be refused your weapon in their customer bill of rights at the below text....
http://fightingsheepdog.com/about-us/fsd-bill-of-rights/
Before you go down, if I were you, I would change the title of this thread to something simple like "Fighting Sheep Dog Complaint", or "Fighting Sheep Dog stole my firearm", or "Fighting Sheep Dog ripped me off". Why? Because search engines will lock onto the company name when people search them to see if they are a credible company or not. Right now, this thread isn't in the search engines because of the title. The BBB complaints already show this is not the first time something like this has happened, and they used the same excuses to blow the complaints off.
Please do this.
1- Change the thread title first. Then update your first post to reflect how long it has been you have been denied your weapon, that way people don't have to read page after page wondering.
2- Next, call the store, ask for the manager and let them know you are coming down with ID at X O'CLOCK to pick up your weapon. Let them know you are pressed for time so you are giving them a few hours notice. Let them know it doesn't matter if the weapon is disassembled, half done, or totally complete. Ask who you should ask for so you can get it done in short order. Don't listen to, argue with, or be disturbed if the person tells you no or asks you to wait a few days. Be punctual and arrive on time (which means 5 minutes early in the store at the counter). Ask for the person you were told to ask for, or for the manager, and let them know you called ahead. If you were told not to come down, ask for the manager, and tell them you are there to pick up your weapon just like you said you would. Be nice and polite regardless of what happens. Take a notebook or paper and write things down while you are there.
At this point, they are now forced to give your weapon back, or deny you your legal right to your property.
3- Come back and post when you have completed the above, and we will help you out from there. Right now you are emotionally invested in this (which is understandable), but I'm not, so it is easier for me to see things clearly. What we are doing above is laying a foundation for what is to come. The rest is easy, and it is where things start to get heavily damaging for the company. Based on their comments here, as well as yours, and the complaints on the Better Business Bureau, you are more credible.
I'm sure that Fighting Sheep Dog is reading this, so I will state clearly and politely, you guys need to release his personal property to him immediately to be done with this. I understand that may mean in a box of parts, but once he has gone down in person and been denied his firearm, things have suddenly gotten very very bad for you. I'm sure you are on great terms with your compliance officer from BATF, but it is going to be hard to explain why a report has been filled out for a stolen firearm that your company had last. That is the tip of the iceburg, because it can and will get much much worse. The articles written about you, the websites that look for reviews about you, the Better Business Bureau, and many other resources are legally and ethically available for defrauded persons to list their personal experiences and complaints. Not only that, but the media often takes a dim view of theft, especially when the topic of firearms is already swirling like a typhoon. Magazines, like the ones I write for also are always interested in stories which can aid their viewers in how to have good experiences, as well as what and who to look out for. Heck, a reasonable person might go to the police or regional task force and let them know they think their weapon is possibly being used or has been sold to facilitate criminal activity. A reasonable officer or agent may think a warrant is in order to locate lost or stolen firearms. A reasonable team would take strong precautions raiding a firearms business which appears to be up to no good. The media however, is not reasonable, and would probably make sure it hit headlines for quite a long time.
ETA- I know the above is a lot of reading, but I think most people can see where things have gone too far, and something isn't right with the entire picture. Something is wrong, and if his weapon was lost, stolen, or something else, they need to make it right quickly. I think we all understand there are bad employees who steal, but once a company covers for them, they are complicit.
This.
This man is wise, I would suggest do exactly as he said, and make sure to leave any emotion out of it.
Sorry, It's been 3.5 months. I don't know where the longer time frame came from.
Ok, that means they are only 91 days over contract, which is better, yet still horrific. Thank you for clarifying the time frame involved.
Stickman offers some good advice on how to handle this situation.
If you follow Stickman's advice and the company refuses to return your firearm, you may want to research the Tennessee criminal code to determine if there is a statute that covers theft by deprivation and take that information to local law enforcement when you file a theft report.
If they have a FFL to cover their business practices and refuse to return your firearm, ATF may be interested. They may tell you it is a local matter, but they should be interested in the information.
If Fighting Sheep Dog continues to draw this out, contact the Attorney General's Office Fraud Investigation Division and file a complaint. The Attorney General should have the ability to interact with the state Department of Revenue and state licensing agencies.
This.
This man is wise, I would suggest do exactly as he said, and make sure to leave any emotion out of it.
Yep. Although I once had a shop owner threaten to shoot me when I asked why they chose not to honor a written contract/sales receipt, when I went to pick up ammunition from them that they chose not to honor the contract regarding. Big Al's Guns in Pineville, LA, if you're curious.
I'm not normally one to turn down good advice, but my only real compliant is with their product. To me this whole process has been a nightmare and an extra 7 days isn't going to make it suck any less. All they have done is made me wait that much long to get my rifle in the hands of someone capable of making this right.
After 3 months of nothing but excuses you believe that waiting another week will suddenly get you the results you want?! You have a much higher tolerance for getting jerked around than I do.
Fatorangecat
10-30-17, 09:38
You were given professional advice on how to proceed and you chose to ignore it. At this point the outcome is on you.
I'm not normally one to turn down good advice, but my only real compliant is with their product. To me this whole process has been a nightmare and an extra 7 days isn't going to make it suck any less. All they have done is made me wait that much long to get my rifle in the hands of someone capable of making this right.
You are a far more patient man than I. At this point I would be contemplating a chain attached to a hitch to get my stuff back.
RVTMaverick
10-30-17, 10:24
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink..;)
It's definitely a learning experience. Their prices are almost double what other companies are charging. The original quote was $200 and would have been $345 at any other time, and one of the local certified cerakoters was charging $250 + $ for magazines. I had no idea to look and see if they were authorized cerakote dealers. I never thought I was really saving any money. I was not looking to get a rifle painted, but they sent out an email with the price cut and I just thought they must be the best if they can charge double at any other given time. My wife and I go to the range weekly and thought 7 days wouldn't even cause any problems with our range time, and it has now been over 3 months since my wife has been able to shoot her primary firearm and now this company has ruined the one rifle that made her feel really comfortable. I've been using them for firearm transfers for years and picked them because they are veteran owned, I joined the Army at 17, and am now retired at 38, and have seen that veteran owned is beginning to mean very little and think they can treat you like shit anytime they feel like it, it's more of a marketing ploy than anything. TN Arms company has done the exact same thing to me in the past and they are veteran owned also. I never go for outside services but when it is a company you trust it's hard to say no when my wife researched and decided it would be fun to get it cerakoted in "Mr. T" gold. I knew the gun would probably look silly, but we have a private range and it used to be a rifle we would never consider selling.
I hate to say it but Vet Owned is the new "Christian" contractor. The guys who put in my Sisters water was as shady tree as you can get. Had the huge fish thing on their truck and the guy called about his church and how Jesus loves you more times than the Preacher does on Sunday. They screwed up simple plumbing in a supply line. Me and Dad had to fix it and we would have put it in to start with if it hadn't been a package deal.
KingsideRook
10-30-17, 11:03
Heh, I almost forgot about these guys. They still owe a $5000 loan to a close friend of mine who lived in East TN. He thought he was acting as an investor, helping a small "family owned, God-fearin Veteran's local business" get through a brief tough spot. No interest, and no repayment yet and that was...2013? No later than 2014.
If I were in TN still, I'd probably spend a lot more time trying to publicize their theft... Only because my friend asked me to leave it alone 4 years ago, did I not launch a concerted internet info campaign against Fighting Sheep Dog and John. But I dare them to come back and deny it. That's a conversation I'd dearly love to have in a public forum, with their company name attached.
I think you should post your story on the Tennessee Gun Owners forum. It can't hurt to get exposure at the local level. Given that it is just outside of Knoxville I know there are several "mods and local SME" from Knoxville. They look like they have a nice shop from the commercials that run locally during The Walking Dead and a good stocking store is hard to find around here.
Heh, I almost forgot about these guys. They still owe a $5000 loan to a close friend of mine who lived in East TN. He thought he was acting as an investor, helping a small "family owned, God-fearin Veteran's local business" get through a brief tough spot. No interest, and no repayment yet and that was...2013? No later than 2014.
If I were in TN still, I'd probably spend a lot more time trying to publicize their theft... Only because my friend asked me to leave it alone 4 years ago, did I not launch a concerted internet info campaign against Fighting Sheep Dog and John. But I dare them to come back and deny it. That's a conversation I'd dearly love to have in a public forum, with their company name attached.
Funny how there is a reoccurring theme with this one.
I'm not normally one to turn down good advice, but my only real compliant is with their product. To me this whole process has been a nightmare and an extra 7 days isn't going to make it suck any less. All they have done is made me wait that much long to get my rifle in the hands of someone capable of making this right.
You're assuming that you'll get it when they say you'll get it this time?
Why?
I went to their site. Aside that you'd have to tranq me to get me into a business named Fighting Sheepdog, I saw this tidbit:
As a result, we at Fighting Sheep Dog have founded “AdapteDD-214”, a 501(c) (application approval pending) non-profit organization dedicated to assisting soldiers, Marines, airmen, and sailors returning from deployment/active duty in their transition to civilian workforce.
Veterans who qualify to work in the program will work side-by-side with FSD employees and management to learn their choice of:
Non-Skills Training:
Resume updating
Interviewing Skills
Counseling
Working with civilians
Mental Health counseling
Stress Management
Handling emotional conflict
Filing for benefits/working with the VA for claims
Financial Services
Budgeting
Saving
Planning
Getting out of possible existing debt
Job finding skills (using our program and beyond)
Where to find the job that’s right for you
Getting the interview
Going through the application process
Retail:
Retail management
Inventory management
Sales
Customer Service
Class Instructor
Machine Shop:
AutoCad
Lathe work
Mill work
Airbrushing
Gunsmithing
Shop management
3D printing
Parts design
And more!
Consideration is given in both our machine shop and the retail store to accommodate any and all lasting adversities our veterans may have endured during their deployment.
Once they’ve completed the program, AdapteDD-214 with work with each veteran for job placement (if they choose) and will continue to stay in contact with us to ensure that not only are they a good fit for their new employer, but that the employer is indeed a good fit for them as well.
AdapteDD-214 is still in the infancy stage of development and we appreciate any and all donations! 100% of all t-shirt sales at Fighting Sheep Dog will also go towards AdapteDD-214 as well.
We’ll bring you more information as we have it. Stay tuned to this page for more details as they are available!
Thank you in advance, FSD Family! And Semper Fi!
How big is this outfit, and what expertise do they have to offer instruction in the listed areas. Seems like the next thing they'll be doing is asking for donations to help their efforts. (Edit - oops they did)
Run, run away!
KingsideRook
10-30-17, 20:16
The cynic in me usually reads the phrase "non-profit" as "tax dodge", and boy howdy, is that program description the exact reason why.
(Not me being salty about personal problems I have with them screwing my friends, that is just shady looking, no matter what small business decided to ask for donations to train employees to work for them, tax free.)
You're assuming that you'll get it when they say you'll get it this time?
Why?
If they don't return it to me on the 1st (tomorrow), then I will do everything in my power to get it back. They have had 10 days notice since I told them I want my rifle back and if they cared anything at all for their customers they would have finished the rifle in that amount of time.
They won't, But they could have. It's what I would have done when I owned my small business, but obviously they are only in it for the money at all costs including reputation and paying customers.
I hate to defend the company, but what is another week. I believe they are out of town and I don't need the extra aggravation. I don't think it is stolen what so ever. When I get it, it's going to someone else which I am going to have to keep waiting for, no point of making it worse on myself. Everyone keeps Assuming that they are holding it for some unknown reason, which in my case they never have in the past. I read Stickman's post Friday night after they closed for the day, their hours are 11-4pm on Sat and are always closed until Weds of the following week. So 1 business day and I start getting negative comments when I was just asking for some advice about the paint job?
I agree it was professional advice and contacted him through PM for more info, However I thought it was just jumping the gun. Tomorrow if I don't get the rifle in my hand I will follow it step by step.
Fatorangecat wrote, "At this point the outcome is on you". How on earth do you think the outcome will change by waiting a week??? I really want to know the answer. The only thing it changes in court is that they held the rifle for 11 extra days while not doing any work to it, but you think I screwed myself??? From what I was told I could get them in trouble, but how does that help me collect money for damages when they aren't making any? Read the bold print above.
If they weren't a shit show you'd have had it back weeks ago, and I don't let shit shows work on my gear. At this point, I've no pity for your plight as you're being ass dragging as they are. Go. Get. Your. Kit. Move on.
So my local shop does this kind of work. I showed him this thread and he had some interesting thoughts about the quality of the work. None of which is appropriate for public consumption.
He did bring up an interesting point about the non matching colors in the photo posted earlier however. He said that older Cerakote can do this when cured at different temps. So if they did the lower and cured it at a high and then the upper and cured it at the low temp, it could explain the difference in how the finish turned out but only if the coating was old and expired.
He also has never seen anything "soak u" that much Ceracote. He said some materials can soak up a bit of the first coat but never enough to matter and never enough to need a whole bottle.
SilentRecon
10-31-17, 14:54
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171031/27a4f98ab242fb0a75388bc2788fe84f.jpg
Happy Halloween everyone!
If they weren't a shit show you'd have had it back weeks ago, and I don't let shit shows work on my gear.
At this point, I've no pity for your plight as you're being ass dragging as they are. Go. Get. Your. Kit. Move on.
I've spoke with him via PM. Your first part is dead on, the second part I'll have to disagree with as there is a larger picture at hand. You can take my word for it if you wish, or not. I have access to some info you don't right now, and it isn't anything that needs to be mentioned in on the forum.
Paladinius
11-01-17, 13:01
I'm not normally one to turn down good advice, but my only real compliant is with their product. To me this whole process has been a nightmare and an extra 7 days isn't going to make it suck any less. All they have done is made me wait that much long to get my rifle in the hands of someone capable of making this right.You have GOT to be shitting us. I'm kinda embarrassed for you, sir.
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I've been keeping an eye on this thread, wondering if you got your rifle back today? Hope all went ( or goes ) well for you.
Rio
I've spoke with him via PM. Your first part is dead on, the second part I'll have to disagree with as there is a larger picture at hand. You can take my word for it if you wish, or not. I have access to some info you don't right now, and it isn't anything that needs to be mentioned in on the forum.
We've spoken before. I'll take your word for it. That said , at face value, I stand by my full post. Given more info , i defer to your opinion.
We've spoken before. I'll take your word for it. That said , at face value, I stand by my full post. Given more info , i defer to your opinion.
Thanks, your posts have left no doubt in my mind you would make the same call with the same info.
I’m interested in an update on this one, and I’m hoping the OP will be comfortable enough after this to continue posting on the board.
OP, did you get your gun back yet?
Any updates?
SilentRecon
11-03-17, 21:06
Thanks, your posts have left no doubt in my mind you would make the same call with the same info.
I’m interested in an update on this one, and I’m hoping the OP will be comfortable enough after this to continue posting on the board.
I would hope he is. it was clear he was being dragged through the muck and besides a few, who did not agree with his timely persistence in retribution, most were in his corner from the beginning. We all have been following this for a long time and hopefully hear the best possible outcome for him.
While we are waiting, hoping that there'll be some closure to this fiasco, I'll pose a question. Is there any outcome that would alter the extremely low opinions of Fighting Sheep Dog? This is primarily directed at those who've been the harshest critics, and those who've asserted they'd never do business with such a company. For the record, I'd put myself into that group. Really, I think that describes just about all of us.
But, again, is there any outcome that would elicit your forgiveness of FSD? Is there any outcome that would make you consider actually giving them your business?
The reason I ask is, if one cannot imagine such an outcome, what's the motivation in sticking around for a final update? Is it simply akin to the morbid fascination of trying to see a nasty wreck on the highway? The current propensity for tension and drama? The opportunity to chastise FSD one last time? Or, maybe to show the OP some support?
I have done a lot of cerakote work on a lot of different surfaces always working with a trained cerakote applicator and never had any issues. It sounds to me like somebody is doing a Mickey Mouse job
Good luck on getting this straightened out might want to send them a bill for your rifle
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militarymoron
11-04-17, 08:27
The reason I ask is, if one cannot imagine such an outcome, what's the motivation in sticking around for a final update?
To see how it's resolved. It could happen to any one of us, as customers.
While we are waiting, hoping that there'll be some closure to this fiasco, I'll pose a question. Is there any outcome that would alter the extremely low opinions of Fighting Sheep Dog? This is primarily directed at those who've been the harshest critics, and those who've asserted they'd never do business with such a company. For the record, I'd put myself into that group. Really, I think that describes just about all of us.
But, again, is there any outcome that would elicit your forgiveness of FSD? Is there any outcome that would make you consider actually giving them your business?
The reason I ask is, if one cannot imagine such an outcome, what's the motivation in sticking around for a final update? Is it simply akin to the morbid fascination of trying to see a nasty wreck on the highway? The current propensity for tension and drama? The opportunity to chastise FSD one last time? Or, maybe to show the OP some support?
Curiosity. This is what really sets humans apart and why we are what we are. Why we made guns, agriculture, and so on.
If we were not curious we'd all still just be sub Sahara Africans doing the hunter gatherer thing. But we're not. Tens of thousands of years ago the ancestors of the rest of the world were curious about what was out there and left Africa. They developed the 'western world' and here we are today, stullnwith that curiosity in our blood.
Why? What do we do with curiousity? It draws us in so we learn. This is a good learning experience for many.
While we are waiting, hoping that there'll be some closure to this fiasco, I'll pose a question. Is there any outcome that would alter the extremely low opinions of Fighting Sheep Dog? This is primarily directed at those who've been the harshest critics, and those who've asserted they'd never do business with such a company. For the record, I'd put myself into that group. Really, I think that describes just about all of us.
But, again, is there any outcome that would elicit your forgiveness of FSD? Is there any outcome that would make you consider actually giving them your business?
The reason I ask is, if one cannot imagine such an outcome, what's the motivation in sticking around for a final update? Is it simply akin to the morbid fascination of trying to see a nasty wreck on the highway? The current propensity for tension and drama? The opportunity to chastise FSD one last time? Or, maybe to show the OP some support?
I'm a little more interested because it's "local" to me.
If I was you I would ask the shop to put a layer of a lighter color as a primer then lay the black over-the-top so then it comes out even
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titsonritz
11-06-17, 11:13
If I was you I would ask the shop to put a layer of a lighter color as a primer then lay the black over-the-top so then it comes out even
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Been following the thread much? At this point I'd think he'd be happy with his gun back.
Paladinius
11-06-17, 12:04
Pathetically weak ending. Disrespectful to the many who went out of their way to offer good advice. AND, it's not like that help was unsolicited.
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SilentRecon
11-06-17, 13:22
Any updates?
FYI I have had similar experiences with unprofessional cerakote applicators. One such incident found me paying $300 for subpar work just to get my parts back from the applicator. Good luck
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WickedWillis
11-06-17, 15:22
You should have taken into account the name of the company before doing business with them.
Sorry for the delay. Posting on Weds that I gave it back to them didn't seem like a good idea with the negative comments that were being posted before I even had an opportunity to get it back.
OK, So here is what happened. I picked the rifle up on Weds. It was completely stripped with no cerakote remaining. I was glad to see something had been done to it even though it was still in an unacceptable state, I said, "see you in court" and left. I'm followed out to the parking lot by Rachel, and after about 5 minutes of me asking what the F, we talk for another 5 minutes and we came to an agreement that I would let them paint it back to black but only if they would give me another rifle so I could know that they were serious. No rifles on the showroom, and I was not able to make that trade. However, I decided that $1000 worth of merchandise strait from their shelves would be good enough. She ends up giving me over $1200 and a promise to have it done by Saturday. Everyday from Weds to Sat I get an evening update on the progress of the paint.
Saturday comes and I have a good looking black rifle again. I can't see anything that would make me consider the job to be poor and I am happy with the compromise. I asked around week 3 of this ordeal if I could just get it painted back to black, but for some reason that wasn't an option. Test fire, all good.
This whole situation has been a nightmare and I am a person who goes well out of my way to not have to deal with this type of aggravation.
On a more positive note, I have started building my wife another full conversion custom AR22 with all the bells and whistles of her choosing so she will be ecstatic about the hobby again. Once I have that built, we are going to sell this rifle and put it behind us. As for FSD, There is definitely no overlooking what has happened, but I'm good with how this ended. I may not use their services but I will still use them as my FFL and a source for parts I don't want to wait to get shipped.
SilentRecon
11-06-17, 16:03
Sorry for the delay. Posting on Weds that I gave it back to them didn't seem like a good idea with the negative comments that were being posted before I got it back anyway.
OK, So here is what happened. I picked the rifle up on Weds. It was completely stripped with no cerakote remaining. I was glad to see something had been done to it even though it was still in an unacceptable state, I said, "see you in court" and left. I'm followed out to the parking lot by Rachel, and after about 5 minutes of me asking what the F, we talk for another 5 minutes and we came to an agreement that I would let them paint it back to black but only if they would give me another rifle so I could know that they were serious. No rifles on the showroom, and I was not able to make that trade. However, I decided that $1000 worth of merchandise strait from their shelves would be good enough. She ends up giving me over $1200 and a promise to have it done by Saturday. Everyday from Weds to Sat I get an evening update on the progress of the paint.
Saturday comes and I have a good looking black rifle again. I can't see anything that would make me consider the job to be poor and I am happy with the compromise. I asked around week 3 of this ordeal if I could just get it painted back to black, but for some reason that wasn't an option. Test fire, all good.
This whole situation has been a nightmare and I am a person who goes well out of my way to not have to deal with this type of aggravation.
On a more positive note, I have started building my wife another full conversion custom AR22 with all the bells and whistles of her choosing so she will be ecstatic about the hobby again. Once I have that built, we are going to sell this rifle and put it behind us. As for FSD, There is definitely no overlooking what has happened, but I'm good with how this ended. I may not use their services but I will still use them as my FFL and a source for parts I don't want to wait to get shipped.
Glad it was resolved. I wonder if it took 10x more Black cerakote than normal rifles. Hehe
I would assume this thread had some merit on your eventual outcome so do not have any hard feelings posting up.
Glad it was resolved. I wonder if it took 10x more Black cerakote than normal rifles. Hehe
I would assume this thread had some merit on your eventual outcome so do not have any hard feelings posting up.
A whole case of paint!!!
tigershilone
11-06-17, 18:22
Op, can you post close up pics of the finished product please? Specifically the the sides of the lower rec by the trigger pins, inside the magwell and inside the trigger group. This would give good insight on the quality of the spray applicator and the job done. Thanks in advance.
Pathetically weak ending. Disrespectful to the many who went out of their way to offer good advice. AND, it's not like that help was unsolicited.
We can do without posts like this.
Paladinius
11-06-17, 18:37
We can do without posts like this.I don't agree.
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Thank goodness we live in a country where the customer is always right
I have to say that they did their best to make it right and ultimately that is the best we could have hoped for
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Yman,
Good to hear your rifle is back home. It sounds like you are satisfied with the second paint job. I dont know much about the area you live in, but around me, there are very few shops where a guy can pick up gun related gear. If thats the case by you, i can understand not wanting to completely burn that bridge. Glad to hear it is finished. Best of luck to you and the wife on the new build.
Rio
So they can paint a rifle well if it's black, but not another color? If my rifle was going to be black I'd rather it was anodized.
I'm glad you got your rifle back. Sucks you had to go through that.
Op, can you post close up pics of the finished product please? Specifically the the sides of the lower rec by the trigger pins, inside the magwell and inside the trigger group. This would give good insight on the quality of the spray applicator and the job done. Thanks in advance.
In all honesty if there is something wrong with it, I would rather not know. I don't pass junk onto other people so when I sell it I will tell the buyer the story and they can decide if it is something they want to take a chance with or not. I can't say that it is perfect, but definitely better than the 2 previous times it was returned to me.
I don't agree.
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You are new here, and are unknown. The board in general is held to a higher standard evidently than what you are used to. With 14 posts your opinion doesn't count.
Show that you are a capable and productive member of the board, and then you start to matter. New people deciding to simply be derisive doesn't cut it here. I've already posted there was a backstory to this which I'm aware of, that won't be posted in public. If that isn't good enough for you, that is fine, but there is no need for you to post negative comments about "pathetically weak" or the OP being disrespectful.
Yes, people did post information and advise, and an impact was made. You might not have seen the results you wanted, but that doesn't change the information people posted was read and considered. The end result wasn't what I wanted, but it worked for the OP, which is who we were all trying to help. Isn't that more important?
Thank goodness we live in a country where the customer is always right
I have to say that they did their best to make it right and ultimately that is the best we could have hoped for
The customer isn't always right. In many cases the customer is an imbecile who a total lack of knowledge for what they want, or what they actually need. However, in this case, I looked at it simply as a contractual issue which wasn't met.
Thank goodness we live in a country where the customer is always right
I have to say that they did their best to make it right and ultimately that is the best we could have hoped for
The customer isn't always right. In many cases the customer is an imbecile who has a total lack of knowledge for what they want, or what they actually need. However, in this case, I looked at it simply as a contractual issue which wasn't met.
So were you able to keep the "merchandise" or was it simply ransom?
You are new here, and are unknown. The board in general is held to a higher standard evidently than what you are used to. With 14 posts your opinion doesn't count.
Show that you are a capable and productive member of the board, and then you start to matter. New people deciding to simply be derisive doesn't cut it here. I've already posted there was a backstory to this which I'm aware of, that won't be posted in public. If that isn't good enough for you, that is fine, but there is no need for you to post negative comments about "pathetically weak" or the OP being disrespectful.
Yes, people did post information and advise, and an impact was made. You might not have seen the results you wanted, but that doesn't change the information people posted was read and considered. The end result wasn't what I wanted, but it worked for the OP, which is who we were all trying to help. Isn't that more important?
I don't care about the "back story". Death in the family, sick kid, car accident, house burned down? So what. Business is business and a customer shouldn't be treated that way. This whole cryptic, top secret back story thing makes me say phooey even louder to FSD.
I don't care about the "back story". Death in the family, sick kid, car accident, house burned down? So what. Business is business and a customer shouldn't be treated that way. This whole cryptic, top secret back story thing makes me say phooey even louder to FSD.
You are completely confused, not that it matters.
The thread was intended to solicit advice for the OP and quite a bit of advice was submitted. Hopefully the OP was enlightened or encouraged by the thread. That appears to be the case.
For others reading (threads here serve that purpose as well) this thread can be a little bit confusing. I don't want to suggest that the internet should be easy and that people shouldn't have to READ and do their own research, but some of the posts here have left me a little bit confused. I suspect many of the posts in this thread have been posted by people with some degree of confusion about what has really happened.
To clarify in fairly simple terms:
(please correct me if I'm wrong here)
-Vendor offered work done in specified time period, or work is free. OP accepted this offer and dropped of the rifle.
-OP did not get rifle back and completed in time period advertised. "OP was advised that the rifle was soaking up too much paint."
-Several other correspondences between OP and vendor resulted in vendor making same claim.
-OP received rifle with part colors mismatched, but returned it to vendor for correction.
-OP eventually (several months?) collected his rifle in pieces with colors being mismatched on several of the parts.
-OP made one or more requests for his rifle in 'whatever condition it is in' and was met with some resistance by the vendor?
-When OP was leaving with his box of parts the vendor asked him to let them paint it another color other than the color that they had previously agreed upon, and the OP agreed but requested collateral, which was granted.
-OP then got rifle back in the time specified, the work done in his satisfaction, except in another color than was originally requested and agreed upon.
-OP did not pay any money for the service. OP returned the collateral.
Is this correct? I realize that there are details that were not posted here and I'm not concerned about that to be honest. I'm still somewhat confused by what HAS been posted. Will it affect my life? Nope. Will I die wondering? Nope. But having followed and read the thread it would be a shame to have it wrong in my peanut brain.
The thread was intended to solicit advice for the OP and quite a bit of advice was submitted. Hopefully the OP was enlightened or encouraged by the thread. That appears to be the case.
For others reading (threads here serve that purpose as well) this thread can be a little bit confusing. I don't want to suggest that the internet should be easy and that people shouldn't have to READ and do their own research, but some of the posts here have left me a little bit confused. I suspect many of the posts in this thread have been posted by people with some degree of confusion about what has really happened.
To clarify in fairly simple terms:
(please correct me if I'm wrong here)
-Vendor offered work done in specified time period, or work is free. OP accepted this offer and dropped of the rifle.
-OP did not get rifle back and completed in time period advertised. "OP was advised that the rifle was soaking up too much paint."
-Several other correspondences between OP and vendor resulted in vendor making same claim.
-OP made one or more requests for his rifle in 'whatever condition it is in' and was met with some resistance by the vendor?
-OP eventually (several months?) collected his rifle in pieces with colors being mismatched on several of the parts.
-When OP was leaving with his box of parts the vendor asked him to let them paint it another color other than the color that they had previously agreed upon, and the OP agreed but requested collateral, which was granted.
-OP then got rifle back in the time specified, the work done in his satisfaction, except in another color than was originally requested and agreed upon.
-OP did not pay any money for the service. OP returned the collateral.
Is this correct? I realize that there are details that were not posted here and I'm not concerned about that to be honest. I'm still somewhat confused by what HAS been posted. Will it affect my life? Nope. Will I die wondering? Nope. But having followed and read the thread it would be a shame to have it wrong in my peanut brain.
Pretty close. There was a gap between him getting it with the colors being messed up and them agreeing to repaint it a different color. Otherwise spot on from my reading of it.
Pretty close. There was a gap between him getting it with the colors being messed up and them agreeing to repaint it a different color. Otherwise spot on from my reading of it.
Rite. He received the rifle at some point and returned it for correction. edited my post. I had overlooked that in my "summary."
I really was trying to make it as simple as possible but that may not be possibly possible. =\
The thread was intended to solicit advice for the OP and quite a bit of advice was submitted. Hopefully the OP was enlightened or encouraged by the thread. That appears to be the case.
For others reading (threads here serve that purpose as well) this thread can be a little bit confusing. I don't want to suggest that the internet should be easy and that people shouldn't have to READ and do their own research, but some of the posts here have left me a little bit confused. I suspect many of the posts in this thread have been posted by people with some degree of confusion about what has really happened.
To clarify in fairly simple terms:
(please correct me if I'm wrong here)
-Vendor offered work done in specified time period, or work is free. OP accepted this offer and dropped of the rifle.
-OP did not get rifle back and completed in time period advertised. "OP was advised that the rifle was soaking up too much paint."
-Several other correspondences between OP and vendor resulted in vendor making same claim.
-OP received rifle with part colors mismatched, but returned it to vendor for correction.
-OP eventually (several months?) collected his rifle in pieces with colors being mismatched on several of the parts.
-OP made one or more requests for his rifle in 'whatever condition it is in' and was met with some resistance by the vendor?
-When OP was leaving with his box of parts the vendor asked him to let them paint it another color other than the color that they had previously agreed upon, and the OP agreed but requested collateral, which was granted.
-OP then got rifle back in the time specified, the work done in his satisfaction, except in another color than was originally requested and agreed upon.
-OP did not pay any money for the service. OP returned the collateral.
Is this correct? I realize that there are details that were not posted here and I'm not concerned about that to be honest. I'm still somewhat confused by what HAS been posted. Will it affect my life? Nope. Will I die wondering? Nope. But having followed and read the thread it would be a shame to have it wrong in my peanut brain.
Everything is correct except the 2nd time that I had the rifle back in my hands, it was fully assembled. Several months can be replaced with 2.5 months.
K, thanks.... Glad you got your gear back, dude.
The customer isn't always right. In many cases the customer is an imbecile who has a total lack of knowledge for what they want, or what they actually need. However, in this case, I looked at it simply as a contractual issue which wasn't met.
If this ain't the damned truth.
The Motto shouldn't be "The Customer is always right." It should be: "If you don't treat the customer, subtly, as if they were correct without making proper while subtle, corrections, there will be another person willing to do it for your pay."
'Murica I suppose. Unless the company has a ruthless tendency, not displaying customer compassion or empathy is a big no-no. But, it has nothing to do with the customer being "right". But rather trying to avoid making them feel stupid for being wrong... Even if they are.
On a more personal note, Yman, you have far far more patience than I. I will be honest, I would have burned that bridge down with kerosene. Without a doubt. But, I work in customer service. I TRAIN customer service. And because of this, I can tolerate A LOT. But, and it's an important but, if I am not left content or satisfied my issue is going to be resolved, I have a damn good idea about how to ruin people's days.
And now I think we can end this. Let me get a Hallelujah!
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