View Full Version : 1st 1911..which one ?
Looking to buy my first one. which one do you recommend ?
I don't really want to start with a $3K custom :)
what about Colt Gvt or SA mil spec ?
open to suggestions of course.
thanks
Given those two options, I would go with the SA and just modify to suit your needs and desires after you shoot it enough to know what it is you want and like out of your 1911 .
VooDoo6Actual
10-04-08, 19:10
SA MC Operator or SA FBI Pro CRG w/ Light Rail.
Your done w/ either purchase and they will be every bit as good as you need to be.
HTH...
Knowledge of intended purpose and future plans for the pistol would be helpful.
Your own initial choices are good choices for a variety of reasons. Both are generally reliable, of decent build quality and get you an experience with original platform. If I hadn't bought a series 70 Colt, I wouldn't have been able to realize that I couldn't use originally-spec-d 1911s. By definition, though, this implies that you'd have a chance to compare with differently spec-d 1911s. Between the two, Colt is my preference, although I'd want to inspect a pistol in person. Obviously, you can have them built into whatever you want later.
I second HOPLOETHOS' recommendations if you want a better contemporarily-spec-d out of box 1911.
Another good unit, in my opinion, is older, pre-series II, Kimber. If I saw a good specimen at decent price, I'd buy it outright even though I am not looking for additional 1911 at this point.
sandpacker21
10-04-08, 20:14
SA makes a great 1911. I know I have one..... Dont overlook S&W's 1911's
mainly target shooting/ shooting classes on the move and self defense. Pretty much what you expect from a reliable gun.
If it involves carry/SD, I think you'd be best served getting Colt of SA mil-spec, shooting it some, and then having it looked at +/- worked over by a competent gunsmith.
If you go higher-end right away, you can get a feature set that you may end up not liking. Additionally, higher-end doesn't necessarily guarantee better reliability.
canucklehead
10-04-08, 21:44
I'd suggest a Kimber Warrior - has everything you need!
I have been thinking about picking up a Sig 1911. They seem pretty nice.
Take a look at the Les Baer Concept Series for a lot of configuration choices in the < $2k range. The Wilson CQB is also worth a look. It's worth it to spend a little more on a 1911 for quality = reliability if this is the route you want to go. Both of these brands offer high-quality turnkey 1911 choices.
I'm looking around $1K max for a reliable 1911. I'm hoping I don't need to spend $2K to get a reliable gun
Impact, you can certainly get reliable 1911 for under $1K. You'd have to prove it to yourself by shooting few hundred rounds, but, in my experience with Colt, sample of 1, reliable 1911 can be had out of box.
It is ergos that I personally have problems with it. I don't know of any sub-$1K 1911 that would meet my needs from reliability AND ergonomics standpoint.
However, since ergo requirements are highly individual, you might be able to find you'd like.
Re Kimber Warrior: it is indeed attractive option specs-wise. My personal experience with current Kimbers, sample of 2, that chambers are tight and require reaming. Larry Vickers didn't have kind words for Warrior, but he didn't say how many bad ones he'd seen. You may want to contact board member Ed L. or search his posts in regards to this pistol.
Good luck with your search.
i'll give the same advice the same time i see this....
if you are patient, you can get a used semi-custom gun for the same as you can get a new "bells and whistles" kimber, colt, or SA, and you will get a better gun....
1) Most semi-custom makes (baer, wilson, brown, etc.) will honor service on a gun regardless of changes in ownership
2) personally I would never, ever buy another kimber...thats a long story...
3) if you are convinced you want a mass produced gun, the SA and S&W guns are both great, and IMHO you will get more "features" on a base colt...
BUT
you can find used Les Baers, sometimes an older Wilson, RRA, what have you for in the $1100-1300 range....that is barely more scratch than you will pay for a new SA Marine Corps Operator or TRP, and it is a MUCH better gun....
you really can't appreciate the difference in quality until you own one...but its there, and significant
so thats my advice....be patient, and you will find a used Baer TRS or Wilson or something for under $1400...and you will be very happy
trio: that's a good idea. thanks.
trio: that's a good idea. thanks.
thanks brother...
I remembered something else...
Fusion Firearms is a new company by Bob Serva, the original owner/founder of Dan Wesson, which was eventually sold to CZ....
www.fusionfirearms.com
thats essentially a custom gun for a semi custom price...I am having Bob build me my ideal 1911, and its running me under $1900...
BUT
the best part is, if you go to gunbroker, Bob himself list "seconds" and "rejects" over there for significantly reduced prices...
for example, a mar in the stainless finish? $400 off the price
one gun had a MSH pin hole that was cut too big, so it had to have a bigger pin...literally $500 off the asking price
most of the issues that cause a reject I couldn't even see...and you are getting a gun with a lifetime warranty for a freaking steal...
i don't see any "seconds" over there right now...
but here is an example of his work...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=112241448
MarshallDodge
10-05-08, 01:25
I don't own a Fusion but I have purchased a couple of their frames for building on. If the rest of the gun is anything like the frame quality then I would have no issues recommending them to someone. Really nice stuff.
I have a Dan Wesson Bobtail that was built when Bob Serva owned the company and it has been an excellent gun so far. They have the Valor which is a really nice pistol: http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=86
I would also suggest looking at the used market for a good 1911. I see a lot of good used Les Baer TRS's on the market in the $1300 range or Wilson CQB's in the $1500 range.
For less then $1K, a Springfield Loaded would not be a bad place to start. Good entry level gun and if you have any issues they have excellent customer service.
found locally a used Les Baer TR special for $1400 ( 1200 rounds), good price ? thanks
MarshallDodge
10-05-08, 02:17
That's a fair price. You could probably get them down another $50-100.
Does it have the original box, papers, etc?
I don't think I would shy away from the STI entry version either. It's called the Spartan and it is basically a Dan Wesson (CZ version) but with all STI parts installed by them and backed by their company!!;) Very reasonable!!!
I personally enjoy the Kimbers I own. Most of their line runs in the price range you're looking. With most Kimbers, you get a lot of bells and whistles on a production pistol. Good luck on your search.
docsprague
10-05-08, 21:28
I personally would start with a SA mil-spec. You can modify from there if you end up liking the 1911 platform. I started with a Wilson which is a bit high. I no longer own the Wilson. I sold it after a got a SA Pro. The only 1911 I have been looking for since buying the Pro is another Pro without the rail. Oh and a SS TRP. So I can have it sent to SA custom shop to have it modified to Pro specs, only stainless.
Colt 1991 with the "O Package". But there's nothing wrong with an SA either.
found locally a used Les Baer TR special for $1400 ( 1200 rounds), good price ? thanks
That is a good deal in my opinion. A new a TRS will run $1,700 - $2,000. For the record I have a Les Baer TRS and it has been a very reliable pistol. I would love to have another one.
You also may want to check out a few articles by Hilton Yam. http://www.10-8performance.com/id2.html.
The TRS at $1400 is a decent buy depending on condition. It's also one of the sub-$2k pistols I'd recommend. The other used to be the Ed Brown Special Forces that was selling two years ago for $1800 NIB street price, but there appears to have been a big spike and now I see then for $2200 all the time. Maybe I should sell mine afterall...
The Springfield Operators are also a good value at their price. I wouldn't get confused and think that this translates to their base "loaded" models however.
Like it or not, the 1911 is a pistol that was designed in an era of cheap labor. You may get lucky and buy a cheap one that runs just fine, or never shoot it enough to ever find it's flaws. But getting a problem child for "cheap" gets really expensive when you have to start sending it here and there to get it straightened out. I hate forced tinkering and prefer to (perhaps over-) spend the first time to help ensure that I don't get sidelined by it.
Like it or not, the 1911 is a pistol that was designed in an era of cheap labor. You may get lucky and buy a cheap one that runs just fine, or never shoot it enough to ever find it's flaws. But getting a problem child for "cheap" gets really expensive when you have to start sending it here and there to get it straightened out. I hate forced tinkering and prefer to (perhaps over-) spend the first time to help ensure that I don't get sidelined by it.
Rob, most of the time I would agree with you but with the modern CNC, MIM, and other precision machines and techniques used in building 'guns' today, I would and do recommend other less costly companies. STI and Charles Daly get their frames and slides from ARMSCORP in the Philippines and are of extremely high quality. They aren't the solid billet of a Les Baer or Ed Brown, but then again, they shoot extremely well and don't cost an arm and a leg!!! Look at Taurus and Springfield...they both get their frames and slides from a foundry in Brazil and their guns run well. It use to be with the design of the gun that it took a skilled craftsman a lot of time to press fit the slide to frame and blend the locking lugs to the slide, but a lot of that has already been done through technology. Even the Les Baers and Ed Browns use CNC and other fine technologies in their productions to cut down on the hand work!!!
After all, the OP asked what 1911 would you get if you only had around $1k to spend. Everyone here is saying spend more and more. You will have to be careful because when the word starts getting out how good these 'low cost' 1911s are, the price is going to go up...Just look at the Taurus of a couple years ago. The entry price was $595 and you could find them around $500 or less, now they have gone up a couple hundred and are getting that price!!!;)
Like I originally stated, I am looking at getting an entry STI. They use the slide/frame and barrel from the Philippines and build/install all their own parts at their factory in Texas. They even tune them up before sending them out the door!!!:D:D:D
I wouldn't take Taurus or CD as examples to hold up as the modern holy grails of precision CNC machined 1911s. WAY too many reports of various parts failures with out of the box examples that can't even make it through 3-day, 600-round, handgun classes.
I agree with you that it SHOULD be possible for someone to make a very good quality, no frills (dovetail sights, high cut front strap, extended thumb safety, beavertail, no front cocking serrations) 1911, I just disagree with your assessment that anyone is currently doing it.
theJanitor
10-06-08, 13:17
a question to start:
are you familiar with the 1911? suggestions for a base pistol might change if you think that you might NOT keep it.
so, without making assumptions: for a starter pistol, i would have to go with a Loaded Springer. you can get them for around $600 used. you have a great chance that it will be very reliable out of the box (and if it isn't, then Springfield has pretty good CS). if you like it and decide to keep it, reliability and upgrade packages can be found from many shops (EGW, Novak, etc). a reliability package is normally not more than $300. so for $900, you will have a well built and professionally tweaked 1911. upgrade packages have a seemingly infinite limit with regards to price.
there are a couple more advantages of getting the loaded springer for a first 1911. if you're not ready for some hammer bite and some other quirks of a mil-spec or GI model, you might get really turned off from a really good platform and that would be a shame. if you like the platform, this won't be the only 1911 you own anyhow ;) so save the custom stuff for later.
but, the loaded package from springfield comes with some important things done, machining wise. everything is properly machined to allow for upgrades with minimal cost. the sights, for example, can be changed out easily to tritiums, or fiber optics, or whatever you desire. but if you had bought a mil-spec or GI, you'd have to get it machined and refinished. the beavertail radius is ready to accept a different beavertail, if you desire, etc.
for reference, i currently own full custom Colts, a semi custom from Les Baer, and manufacturer customs from Colt and Kimber (early production, thank god), and a Springer loaded. the kimber is currently at drake's gunworks having some work done. :D
Good Luck with your search and let us know what you decide on.
Jason Burton
10-06-08, 23:39
Looking to buy my first one. which one do you recommend ?
I don't really want to start with a $3K custom :)
what about Colt Gvt or SA mil spec ?
Between the two you listed above my preference would be for the Colt.
However, based on this...
mainly target shooting/ shooting classes on the move and self defense. Pretty much what you expect from a reliable gun.
... you may want something a bit more suited to that task than a bone stock base gun, as others have already mentioned. For building a custom gun either the Colt or Springfield will make a great base gun if your willing to spend the time figuring out what you need and want in a carry gun, but neither would be what I consider an optimal using/carry gun right out of the box. It may work for some but eventually most guys shooting those pistols change something to improve functional or ergonomic aspects of the gun.
As mentioned previously you would probably be doing yourself a favor by allotting more money and finding a good used semi-custom. By going with a semi-custom you’ll be getting a gun that is most likely put together well and with good parts, one that will allow you to explore the 1911 as a using gun without the downsides many find in a plain-Jane 1911. I would take a good hard look at a TR Special, it would be my overwhelming first choice for a semi-custom 1911. Another option may be something from Wilson Combat such as their CQB... both have been around for a while so if you keep your eyes open and shop carefully you can likely find a more than serviceable example at a fair price.
Between the two you listed above my preference would be for the Colt.
However, based on this...
... you may want something a bit more suited to that task than a bone stock base gun, as others have already mentioned. For building a custom gun either the Colt or Springfield will make a great base gun if your willing to spend the time figuring out what you need and want in a carry gun, but neither would be what I consider an optimal using/carry gun right out of the box. It may work for some but eventually most guys shooting those pistols change something to improve functional or ergonomic aspects of the gun.
As mentioned previously you would probably be doing yourself a favor by allotting more money and finding a good used semi-custom. By going with a semi-custom you’ll be getting a gun that is most likely put together well and with good parts, one that will allow you to explore the 1911 as a using gun without the downsides many find in a plain-Jane 1911. I would take a good hard look at a TR Special, it would be my overwhelming first choice for a semi-custom 1911. Another option may be something from Wilson Combat such as their CQB... both have been around for a while so if you keep your eyes open and shop carefully you can likely find a more than serviceable example at a fair price.
i have to say, as an aside, that the fact that I gave similar advice to Jason Burton pretty just made my evening....
maybe even my week...
although the Redskins did just beat the Cowboys and Eagles, and my beloved Dodgers won their first playoff series since 1988....
So I'm having a damn good week....
still....this may top it :D
This type of question seems to keep regurgitating itself every few weeks...
Both the new Series 70 Colt or a SA milspec are fine base guns for further customization--the Colt might be a bit better. Be sure to read Hilton Yam's material at 10-8 regarding base guns and modifications: http://www.10-8performance.com/id2.html.
On the other hand, if you are not ready to drop $3500 or so and wait a year or two for a properly customized 1911, then you might want to look at something else. Right now, about the only relatively easily obtainable "stock" 1911 that I would feel comfortable purchasing for duty/carry use would be the SA Professional 5" barrel, single stack, steel frame (either PC9111 or PC9111LR if you want a light rail) and even those are sometimes in need of a little tweaking and aren't to be trusted until after shooting at least 1000 trouble free rounds. None of the other standard and semi-custom 1911's I have observed have proven to consistently offer acceptable hard-use reliability and durability out of the box. FWIW, both SA Loaded's I purchased exhibited significant functional and QA problems.
Any person in the market for a new .45 ACP handgun intended for duty/self-defense use, who was not already wedded to the 1911 platform, would be very well served by the .45 ACP M&P (especially with the Performance Center sear); the HK45 is probably the next most viable option, although I personally don't shoot them quite as well as 1911's or M&P's...
I'll just throw my three dimes in here too and agree with the smart guy- theJanitor is pretty much hittin' that nail on the head- if you want a great entry 1911, go with the SA and get a good "reliability package." Don't even shoot it- just hand carry it from the FFL straight to the friendly neighborhood gunsmith that specializes in 1911s, and hand him the box. If he's tits, you'll have a sweet easily moddable, reliable 1911... you can upgrade sights, grips, backstrap, trig, etc, after you've blown a few boxes of ammo and keep reading up and know what you'd like to see on it.
There is no stock, out-of-the-box, ready-to-go 1911.
HK USP45 is a freaken great duty sidearm, if your department policy permits.
theJanitor
10-07-08, 11:47
i dunno if i'd walk it down to my local 'smith unless he was really well known. the 1911 that i really trust came from a custom gunsmith, the rest have all needed tweaking as well.
Doc, every "professional" that i've seen has been well over $2000. does that mean that the OP's request (around $1000) is unreasonable? What can we suggest to help him out in that respect?
There are no acceptable 1911's ready for hard use at under $1000. At that price point get an M&P, HK45, or if you are not set on .45 ACP, consider a G17/19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.