View Full Version : Charlottesville Rally - Deaths etc
So a an alt Right rally in Charlottesville VA took place today.
The Gov. says he planned for months.
Everyone was --warnerd-- DO NOT GO THERE. DO NOT GO. Let them do there thing and be gone.
However, instead, hundreds of demonstrators against the White Right showed up and there was fighting, law breaking, etc.
Next a car plows into the protestors ( OHIO plates, man arrested ). One killed, many injured.
Shortly afterward a state Police chopper crashed. Killed the pilot and one passenger. It is reported this chopper was associated with the rally by some means.
Reports are Trump didn't respond in time and when he did he somehow supported the White Right.
VA Gov says go away White Right and don't come back.
The part I don't get is that the sensible, well educated, peaceful, reasonable protestors have no blame.They have been told for months not to go. Had they not been there if any arrests were to happen it would have all been the White Right. There would have been no one to drive a car over by the OHIO guy. ... and depending on what the State Police chopper was doing, it might not have even been in the air.
Months of planning. DO NOT GO, DO NOT GO, DO NOT GO. Yet hundreds of peaceful enlightened people go to protest. 3 dead, many injuries, destroyed helicopter, multiple cars wrecked, who knows what else. All because the well educated, peaceful, wise individuals can't seem to listen to their own politicians that they elected and grasp the concept of DON'T GO THERE. JUST DON''T GO.
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/kkk-rally-charlottesville-virginia.jpg?quality=85
read the sigh she is holding.....
https://bluelivesmatter.blue/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/charlottesville-unite-the-right-video.jpg
Seriously is this what STAY HOME, DO NOT GO means to a common sense, well educated, peaceful, all inclusive, ordinary, honest person?
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3406211.1502561167!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1200/unite-white-supremacist-rally-charlottesville.jpg
... and then he backed up. He drove that car back up the street, backwards for blocks
This car is moving backwards adn keeps on going....
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/12/21/4333480200000578-4785246-image-a-30_1502569546107.jpg
I watched a thing earlier today about the march through UVA last night. At first I saw torches and people chanting "You will not replace us!". Okay, no biggie. Then I heard it switch to "White lives matter!" Raised an eyebrow, but if "Black lives matter" then so do white ones, right? Then I started seeing the Nazi salute being thrown and turned it off. Enough of these clowns.
Later today I start seeing reports of violence. The "counter protesters", painted as pure as the driven snow by the MSM, are suddenly victims. Well, the peaceful "counter protesters" were mostly Antifa and BLM jackoffs pulling their usual shit. Only this time it wasn't Berkeley and the other side fought back. So we have a major collision of assholes. Yet the MSM isn't spinning it that way. No, it's the racist, bigoted original protesters who are at fault, not anyone else.
So let me clarify my stance on this whole shitshow:
Neo-Nazi's, Skinheads, the KKK, and White Supremacists are racist assholes.
BLM are racist, bigoted assholes.
Antifa are extremist hater assholes.
So, there we have it. ALL of the parties involved are irresponsible shitheads. Yet, it will not be spun that way. No, we can't possibly tell the truth now could we?
... and then he backed up. He drove that car back up the street, backwards for blocks
This car is moving backwards adn keeps on going....
Have heard that it was in fact a peaceful "counter protester" who thought he was running over White Supremacists. Wonder what the storyline will be?
If I didn't know better I would think some of these kind people had a political agenda.
http://static2.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3406591.1502574669!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635_424/unite-white-supremacist-rally-charlottesville.jpg
I'm not fan of the KKK and all that nonsense, but something seems wrong with these pictures.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems like some people showed up looking for a fight. Well the governor did say there had been months of planning.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHDsTOuUwAAT4u9.jpg
Can we start arresting the morons on both sides for domestic terrorism? Violence to further a political agenda and each side seems to be participating. Throw them all in Gitmo for all I care.
White Nationalists, Black Nationalists, ANTIFA, the whole damn bunch of them.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-12-17, 19:04
46993
That looks like a personal plate, but I can't decipher it?
Averageman
08-12-17, 19:08
At some point your liberty and rights have to be balanced by common sense and prudence.
If you were there, on either side, you went there looking for a fight.
Nobody was going to be educated, no one was going to change their mind and clearly no one was safe. So what we had wasn't a rally, or a political event, people of opposing views gathered to fight in the streets.
That this wasn't stopped in time to save lives, or cancelled when it became apparent earlier in the week what this had become leads me to believe certain folks may have wanted some bloodshed to further their goals.
Inkslinger
08-12-17, 19:15
At some point your liberty and rights have to be balanced by common sense and prudence.
If you were there, on either side, you went there looking for a fight.
Nobody was going to be educated, no one was going to change their mind and clearly no one was safe. So what we had wasn't a rally, or a political event, people of opposing views gathered to fight in the streets.
That this wasn't stopped in time to save lives, or cancelled when it became apparent earlier in the week what this had become leads me to believe certain folks may have wanted some bloodshed to further their goals.
Exactly right. It wasn't a "rally" it was a "rumble".
Averageman
08-12-17, 19:17
Exactly right. It wasn't a "rally" it was a "rumble".
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1d8_1502562567
Not a decent human being in sight. Napalm the lot of them and this shit show would end overnight. :mad:
Did they identify themselves as "alt-right"? The reason I ask is the pictures I've seen show what looks something like Klansmen and neo-nazis. It seems to me that the farther right you go you would end up with anarchy not fascist white supremacists. The Klan flowed out of Jacksonian dixiecrats and I always considered Nazis, because of their socialism, to be leftists. National Socialists as opposed to International Socialists.
d
Have heard that it was in fact a peaceful "counter protester" who thought he was running over White Supremacists. Wonder what the storyline will be?
You know, I was just watching the video of it happening. When that car goes down the street just as getting ready to hit the people it passes this girl and you can hear her as she watches and say "****!!"(F-word)... Not like OMG!! but like damn it's being done wrong!!
Isn't that going to be something if this was a peacenick.
It seems kinda odd one of the KKK types would be playing the loner. They were traveling in protected groups. For a loner to do this would be totally out of line with their agenda.
That this wasn't stopped in time to save lives, or cancelled when it became apparent earlier in the week what this had become leads me to believe certain folks may have wanted some bloodshed to further their goals.
The city of Charlottesville tried to pull the white nationalists permit but the ACLU stepped in on their behalf.
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Averageman
08-12-17, 19:33
You are correct Sir!
https://acluva.org/20102/aclu-va-statement-on-aug-11-weekend-protests-demonstrations-in-charlottesville/
“The ACLU of Virginia stands firmly for the right to freedom of expression for everyone. We stand just as firmly in opposition to violence, racism and hatred of any kind. We condemn in the strongest possible terms the willful, malicious, dangerous and unlawful acts that occurred Friday evening in Charlottesville and on the University of Virginia campus. We urge anyone participating in demonstrations or protests of any kind today to do so in a spirit of peaceful, productive discourse. There is no place in a civil society for violent conflict, and we oppose such acts of aggression no matter the source.”
But after Friday night, why continue today?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/11/aclu-joins-suit-against-charlottesville-over-movin/
Saturday’s rally is intended to protest the city’s scheduled removal of the monument as well as its recent renaming of Lee Park, and Mr. Kessler’s attorneys argued Thursday that holding the rally elsewhere would “dilute and alter” the demonstrators’ message as well as “substantially undermine” their ability to communicate their cause.
“Unless Defendants and their agents are enjoined, Plaintiff, other similarly-situated protesters who share his views and other members of the public will be irreparably harmed as they will be prevented from peacefully gathering to express their views on pressing issues of public concern at a time, place and in a manner reasonable for them to do so,” his attorneys wrote.
After Friday there wasn't a chance this wasn't going to go violent.
its a catch 22, First:
Lets identify the 2 parties:
The demonstrators: Made up of mostly Non KKK members but defiantly white Caucasians who are racist towards non whites, alt right/far right who use the word "patriot" as a footnote to satisfy there critics.
The protesters: which a large percentage is made up of ANTIFA, BLM, Liberals, Bernie Supporters and College Freshmen who use "free speech" as a way to suppress individual thoughts that are not consistent with there ideology
Both parties have the right to demonstrate, protest, petition and to picket. Obviously the demonstrators were there to spew a bunch of hate and reiterate the same old story about how the good times are behind us and whites are becoming a minority. The protesters gathered to show resistance towards the demonstrators and most likely started hurling insults or aggressive behavior - study shows based on evidence from Baltimore, Ferguson, Dallas, St Louis, Atlanta, Wisconsin that liberals will result to physical aggression if they are not being listened to. Personally I hate both parties but I do think the protestors brought fuel to a fire, the fact that many showed up wearing helmets, sticks and padding clearly indicates that they expected a physical altercation or anticipated a physical altercation. Either way, they came prepared. Free speech works both ways, I don't agree with alt right/far right but I don't agree with ANTIFA/BLM so I let them talk because some people just need to be listened to-even if they have not much to say. Basically this was a far left/far right rumble, and a couple of socs tried to drown Ponyboy and one of them got stabbed, later Johnny got his back broke and Dallas was killed in the end.
http://rutherford.org/files_images/general/08-10-2017_KesslerComplaint.pdf
skywalkrNCSU
08-12-17, 19:50
Did they identify themselves as "alt-right"? The reason I ask is the pictures I've seen show what looks something like Klansmen and neo-nazis. It seems to me that the farther right you go you would end up with anarchy not fascist white supremacists. The Klan flowed out of Jacksonian dixiecrats and I always considered Nazis, because of their socialism, to be leftists. National Socialists as opposed to International Socialists.
d
Yeah all those neo nazi's and kkk members that were out rallying for Obama right? I'm sure that side is consistently voting democrat...
Averageman
08-12-17, 19:54
"The term "Reichstag fire" is used by some writers to denote a calamitous event staged by a political movement, orchestrated in a manner that casts blame on their opponents, thus causing the opponents to be viewed with suspicion by the general public. This is sometimes known as a false flag attack when the event itself is caused by proponents of a political movement to falsely accuse their opponents."
In this case, I'm becoming more convinced as time goes on we are headed toward a very,very bad place.
I would guess again that all parties involved wanted a fight, that after Fridays events it wasn't stopped has me curious as to why not.
Did they identify themselves as "alt-right"?
d
Absolutely, yes. The top dog. "These people, their number one priority was shutting down the Alt right, not allowing us to speak our minds." Jason Kessler starts at 1:00 min mark. You can't get much more clear about who he thinks he is than that.
https://www.pscp.tv/TheMadDimension1/1yoJMplRNDOGQ?t=68
I don't agree with all the white power BS, but the guy has a point. Hell it's a matter of court record...... and he won!
Whoever drove that car has spent a lot of time backing up, I can tell you that. Never seen anyone back a car up like that that hadn't practiced it many many times.
BTW, for those that don't know. Chancellorsville is college town. The outlying area is favored by musicians and movie stars. It's all super Liberal.
Go to the court doc I posted above. Page 13 items 56 and 57.
I can't get the text to format properly. August 8th changes were made to make life difficult for Alt Right group. Political pressure. At same time, the counter protesters were given two downtown permits ( I assume where the car went through ) AND access to the park without permits.
Shades of Hillary, Wasserman, Lynch, et al..
Yeah all those neo nazi's and kkk members that were out rallying for Obama right? I'm sure that side is consistently voting democrat...
Nazis and communists in Germany hated each other, but they were both "socialists". Just because people are grossly inconsistent doesn't really explain things at a "principle" level. The OP labeled them as alt-right, do they self identify as such? Maybe they did, I don't know. But to say, like leftists do, that Republicans and nazis/kkk have some kinship at some level is an extremely dubious assertion.
skywalkrNCSU
08-12-17, 20:17
Nazis and communists in Germany hated each other, but they were both "socialists". Just because people are grossly inconsistent doesn't really explain things at a "principle" level. The OP labeled them as alt-right, do they self identify as such? Maybe they did, I don't know. But to say, like leftists do, that Republicans and nazis/kkk have some kinship at some level is an extremely dubious assertion.
Yes, they identify as alt right
sidewaysil80
08-12-17, 20:18
You know, I was just watching the video of it happening. When that car goes down the street just as getting ready to hit the people it passes this girl and you can hear her as she watches and say "****!!"(F-word)... Not like OMG!! but like damn it's being done wrong!!
Isn't that going to be something if this was a peacenick.
It seems kinda odd one of the KKK types would be playing the loner. They were traveling in protected groups. For a loner to do this would be totally out of line with their agenda.
Whoever drove that car has spent a lot of time backing up, I can tell you that. Never seen anyone back a car up like that that hadn't practiced it many many times.
You've never seen someone backup in a straight line before? At least wait for the facts to come out regarding the driver before insinuating it was a planned conspiracy.
Absolutely, yes. The top dog. "These people, their number one priority was shutting down the Alt right, not allowing us to speak our minds." Jason Kessler starts at 1:00 min mark. You can't get much more clear about who he thinks he is than that.
https://www.pscp.tv/TheMadDimension1/1yoJMplRNDOGQ?t=68
I don't agree with all the white power BS, but the guy has a point. Hell it's a matter of court record...... and he won!
Whoever drove that car has spent a lot of time backing up, I can tell you that. Never seen anyone back a car up like that that hadn't practiced it many many times.
I was typing when you wrote this, thanks.
Averageman
08-12-17, 20:25
You've never seen someone backup in a straight line before? At least wait for the facts to come out regarding the driver before insinuating it was a planned conspiracy.
I think his point is, backing that car up in a straight line after running in to a group of people isn't something someone does well in an emotional state.
The adrenaline dump, the confusion etc, would likely cause a rational, normal, untrained person to has less than precise control.
It looks rather planned/practiced to me.
I was blissfully ignorant this whole ugly business, due to the Jewish Sabbath.
Seems to me the cops and fire were the only good people there. I have to wonder if the chopper that went down had been shot at.
I feel sorry for the families of the dead officers.
The police should have retreated, and then called in an air strike on both the left and right wack jobs.
In the research I did, a couple weeks ago, Kessler is a known kkk sympathizer, at the least. In one of the videos I saw today, people carrying a banner that had something about a "superior race", those were the only two words I could identify at the angled view.
It had devolved to violence well before the start time. There were reports of people throwing excrement, cans filled with concrete, and using pepper spray.
Then, of course, the brawling in the street. When the car thing happened, it had already been declared an unlawful gathering, and state police and local guard units were dispersing the crowds.
Not sure exactly when the chopper crashed, but report I saw said they were in the air monitoring the event.
Saw one video of 10 to perhaps 20 kitted out and armed persons. Definitely not police, mismatched equipment and clothing. A few helmets, some plate carriers, some chest rigs. Some packs, water carriers. Mag pouches with mags, sidearms, long guns. Ars with mags, one ksg shotgun. A few had radios. Both men and women, stayed pretty well together, moved together, looked like at least they knew each other fairly well.
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Averageman
08-12-17, 20:43
There were reports of people throwing excrement, cans filled with concrete, and using pepper spray.
Saw one video of 10 to perhaps 20 kitted out and armed persons. Definitely not police, mismatched equipment and clothing. A few helmets, some plate carriers, some chest rigs. Some packs, water carriers. Mag pouches with mags, sidearms, long guns. Ars with mags, one ksg shotgun. A few had radios. Both men and women, stayed pretty well together, moved together, looked like at least they knew each other fairly well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4rNjzUglM
Looks like they were prepared for a street fight.
This is just disgusting all around.
Currently I have a Facebook "Friend" who is claiming the original protest is completely peaceful and every bit of violence was committed by people setting up a false flag op.
Some people have a complete disconnect with reality.
The courts had okayed this demonstration. Now that decision is being criticized. Free speech is free speech, as much as any of us find it revolting. Curious to see if a BLM demonstration which turned violent (gee, that's never happened before :rolleyes:) would be criticized in the same hand-wringing fashion as this is. Oh, never mind......
Until the double standard ends and the over-the-top, politically correct horseshit is stopped you will see pushback by assholes against assholes. A decade of whites being accused of being racist just because of their skin color and blacks being absolved of any because of their skin color is coming home to roost. Push people into a corner and you will see the ranks of the minority view being filled by new recruits. The 1960's saw this with blacks and now you are seeing it with whites. Treat EVERYONE equally and there wouldn't be this problem.
Yeah I know, in a perfect world.....
You've never seen someone backup in a straight line before? At least wait for the facts to come out regarding the driver before insinuating it was a planned conspiracy.
First off I am not insinuating anything. Secondly. No, for two straight blocks after having just smashed the front end up and probably knowingly killed people. No, I have never seen that level of unwavering reverse driving at that speed. Most people will get the rear end moving left/right in short order and have to correct usually by slowing down. In fact, when I first saw the video, I thought I was watching in play in reverse until I realized what all the junk was hanging off the front.
In my observation of driving for nearly 50 years, I thought that under the circumstances he did a remarkable job of backing out of there. What I did say was ... "Never seen anyone back a car up like that that hadn't practiced it many many times." I stand by that. I also stand by what I heard as to the tonal aspects of the girl that shouted the F word. It's doesn't mean I am basing a conspiracy on those things, it means I observed them and without additional context they seemed unusual to me.
Let me know when you get all the facts. None will change what I saw and heard unless you find that videos were altered which I'm going out on a limb here and say they are unaltered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni4rNjzUglM
Looks like they were prepared for a street fight.
Looks like BOTH sides were.
SomeOtherGuy
08-12-17, 20:56
its a catch 22, First:
Lets identify the 2 parties:
The demonstrators: Made up of mostly Non KKK members but defiantly white Caucasians who are racist towards non whites, alt right/far right who use the word "patriot" as a footnote to satisfy there critics.
The protesters: which a large percentage is made up of ANTIFA, BLM, Liberals, Bernie Supporters and College Freshmen who use "free speech" as a way to suppress individual thoughts that are not consistent with there ideology
Both parties have the right to demonstrate, protest, petition and to picket. Obviously the demonstrators were there to spew a bunch of hate and reiterate the same old story about how the good times are behind us and whites are becoming a minority. The protesters gathered to show resistance towards the demonstrators and most likely started hurling insults or aggressive behavior - study shows based on evidence from Baltimore, Ferguson, Dallas, St Louis, Atlanta, Wisconsin that liberals will result to physical aggression if they are not being listened to. Personally I hate both parties but I do think the protestors brought fuel to a fire, the fact that many showed up wearing helmets, sticks and padding clearly indicates that they expected a physical altercation or anticipated a physical altercation. Either way, they came prepared. Free speech works both ways, I don't agree with alt right/far right but I don't agree with ANTIFA/BLM so I let them talk because some people just need to be listened to-even if they have not much to say. Basically this was a far left/far right rumble, and a couple of socs tried to drown Ponyboy and one of them got stabbed, later Johnny got his back broke and Dallas was killed in the end.
Excellent post.
While it's common sense to stay FAR away from any sort of demonstration like this, one of the fundamental concepts of our nation is the right to peacefully assemble and protest about just about anything.
I'm sure many of the far-right attendees were looking and hoping for a fight, but it would have been far better if they had gone home disappointed.
It's hard not to think that most if not all of the leftist counterprotesters were looking for a fight.
We need a society where peaceful rallies are protected, by police if necessary, and this sort of mob violence doesn't happen. There are reports (nothing should be considered reliable this soon) that the police didn't try to separate the groups but seemed to be allowing a riot to develop. Again, too early to know what really happened.
As for the car attack, if it was a deliberate attack it was terribly ineffective yet showed pretty good reverse-driving skills. Makes me wonder if it was not a deliberate attack but maybe someone who got surrounded by an angry mob and panicked. That happened several times in 2016 with all the BLM-related road blockages.
None of this crap bodes well for our civil society.
Protip: when Nazis, KKK etc. want to rally, ignore them, avoid them, let them look silly with small turnout and uncomfortable costumes. They will get bored and go do something different, probably better, with their free time. This is how it always used to be until the last 2-3 years. Seems like some global troublemakers (Soros for one, as he apparently funds "Antifa") are trying to make social unrest in the US.
Averageman
08-12-17, 21:08
Looks like BOTH sides were.
Without a doubt.
It's still not real clear to me why after all the drama at last nights (Friday) event, the Guard and the State Police didn't shut this down this morning.
ACLU or not, the situation developed badly, control was lost and safety for today's event was in question. There was simply no reason that public safety wasn't a major consideration.
Without a doubt.
It's still not real clear to me why after all the drama at last nights (Friday) event, the Guard and the State Police didn't shut this down this morning.
ACLU or not, the situation developed badly, control was lost and safety for today's event was in question. There was simply no reason that public safety wasn't a major consideration.
I agree. That said, when we see a BLM protest begin to show unhealthy traits they too should be shut down, but we haven't seen this in the past. Time to start shutting down trouble BEFORE it gets out of hand, and not just when it's the KKK/Nazi side but the same haters on the other side. PC be damned (PC and a double standard being most of the reason this has come to a boiling point).
I am listening to Fox News behind me as I type this. The big-time R's are screaming for hate crime/domestic terrorism charges. I can go along with this, but let's please open the field up to EVERYONE who hates.
Without a doubt.
It's still not real clear to me why after all the drama at last nights (Friday) event,
Probably because the "event" started at 10AM today Sat.. The permit started for Sat.
the situation developed badly, control was lost and safety for today's event was in question.
That was part of the court case. That was understood beforehand.
Everyone knew the Alt Left was going to throw a wrench into an equally caustic origination's right to free speech. If you shut everything down, especially after you have won in court, then what good are the courts? What good are rights and freedoms?
Averageman
08-12-17, 21:41
I agree. That said, when we see a BLM protest begin to show unhealthy traits they too should be shut down, but we haven't seen this in the past. Time to start shutting down trouble BEFORE it gets out of hand, and not just when it's the KKK/Nazi side but the same haters on the other side. PC be damned (PC being most of the reason this has come to a boiling point).
That being said, if my intent is to protest the removal of Robert E. Lee's Statue from a park, how much credibility does my argument lose when David Duke shows up and claims he is "On my side"?
A big part of how your message is received when it comes to political discourse in these events, are the people around you when you attempt to deliver your message. I really can't expect that the content of my message will be received fairly when I have David Duke on one elbow and a Storm Trooper on the other.
If the Alt-Right ever had a message that wasn't overtly racist, it was lost early as the group was over run with hate.
My understanding, from reports I read, was that late (no time given) last night, a last ditch effort to move the rally to another location was shot down, and it was on. Also, I read that the official start time was noon, but of course, people were arriving in good numbers by around 10am, and some violence had started then. The excrement report, and the concrete filled cans report were both before noon. By around 1pm to 1:30, it had been declared an unlawful gathering. The car thing was around or after 2pm, IIRC.
I, too, feel the white supremacists were expecting a fight, and blm/antifa came to give them one.
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Averageman
08-12-17, 21:43
Probably because the "event" started at 10AM today Sat.. The permit started for Sat.
That was part of the court case. That was understood beforehand.
Everyone knew the Alt Left was going to throw a wrench into an equally caustic origination's right to free speech. If you shut everything down, especially after you have won in court, then what good are the courts? What good are rights and freedoms?
The event started yesterday afternoon/evening with a torch rally. It went poorly, violence and people fighting in the streets.
Lots of precautions were taken, things were changed, but no one shut it down.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/12/white-nationalists-counter-protesters-brawl-lee-statue-virginia-friday-night/
White nationalists gathered to protest the removal of a statue depicting Confederate general Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville, Virginia, Friday night. The protest only lasted about an hour because multiple brawls broke out, spurring the police to intervene and stop the demonstration.
After the city of Charlottesville decided earlier this year to remove the statue from Emancipation Park, formerly Lee Park, members of the Klu Klux Klan — a white nationalist group that has killed and intimidated countless black, Jewish, and Catholic Americans — led a protest on July 8. Late Friday night, a group of about 150 young, white nationalists followed up with another protest against the removal of the Lee statue.
That being said, if my intent is to protest the removal of Robert E. Lee's Statue from a park, how much credibility does my argument lose when David Duke shows up and claims he is "On my side"?
A big part of how your message is received when it comes to political discourse in these events, are the people around you when you attempt to deliver your message. I really can't expect that the content of my message will be received fairly when I have David Duke on one elbow and a Storm Trooper on the other.
If the Alt-Right ever had a message that wasn't overtly racist, it was lost early as the group was over run with hate.
While you and I may agree it should be so, does the public outrage exist (as expressed by the MSM) when Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson show up to support a BLM rally? Of course not, those bigoted race-baiters get a free pass as far as what the general public sees. I have zero issues slamming both extremes, but let's slam BOTH extremes.
The event started yesterday afternoon/evening with a torch rally. It went poorly, violence and people fighting in the streets.
Lots of precautions were taken, things were changed, but no one shut it down.
Everything I have read said the "permitted event" was for today only. The court documents and even this...
The lawsuit is requesting the court compel the city to permit the rally that’s been scheduled for Emancipation Park from noon to 5 p.m. Saturday, and requests that Kessler be awarded for his legal fees and legal damages.
I understand what you are saying but that was gist of the court case. Plaintiff: "Why won't you provide us equal protection and freedom of speech?" as you have done for others.
So where is the line drawn? If you shut that one down, what's next?
News on the two State Police Officers.
The only thing I can find is that they were hovering observing. Then one witness saw it going into a tail spin. Crashed in the trees and caught fire.
One of the guys lived in Midlothian VA and the other in New Kent.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/killed-chopper-crash-va-charlottesville-clashes-article-1.3406606
Averageman
08-12-17, 22:11
After last night there were hospitals shutting down all elective surgeries in order to be prepared in case this went bad. That is some forward thinking by someone who has an idea of what could happen here.
As Governor, failing to call the National Guard in and then in turn call the Judge responsible for hearing the case and the ACLU attorney on a three way line and explain in detail the situation and why your shutting it down seems far more prudent than cleaning up the aftermath.
It would appear the Hospital was more prepared than the Governor.
Very early on there were people within the Alt-Right that had a message like you mention;
"Why won't you provide us equal protection and freedom of speech as you have done for others.?"
That message was lost along with any integrity they were attempting to keep when they allowed the KKK and Nazi's to inject themselves in to the Alt-Right. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a way to shut down the message as so far it has become very effective.
Driver of the car. 20 year old
CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. -- The suspect arrested in a deadly crash near a scheduled rally of white nationalists has been identified as James Alex Fields Jr., of Maumee, Ohio, according to Superintendent Martin Kumer with the Albermarle-Charlottesville County Regional Jail.
http://wtvr.com/2017/08/12/james-alex-fields-jr-arrested-for-charlottesville-rally-crash/
It would appear the Hospital was more prepared than the Governor.
Terry McCauliffe is not going to be seen assisting and protecting the Right. The prudent thing would have been to rope off the park, block the streets, tell them to have their little party and go home.
So yeah, he's simply blaming everything on the Alt Right. "Go away and don't come back." That's his commanding solution. The NG was at teh ready per his announcement. Ready for the command he never gave. Go protect that group's right to speech and assembly.
Driver of the car. 20 year old
CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. -- The suspect arrested in a deadly crash near a scheduled rally of white nationalists has been identified as James Alex Fields Jr., of Maumee, Ohio, according to Superintendent Martin Kumer with the Albermarle-Charlottesville County Regional Jail.
http://wtvr.com/2017/08/12/james-alex-fields-jr-arrested-for-charlottesville-rally-crash/
Hope they string the guy up. If two groups get into a brawl and beat the hell out of each other that is one thing. But this appears to be premeditated.
Averageman
08-12-17, 23:01
Terry McCauliffe is not going to be seen assisting and protecting the Right. The prudent thing would have been to rope off the park, block the streets, tell them to have their little party and go home.
So yeah, he's simply blaming everything on the Alt Right. "Go away and don't come back." That's his commanding solution. The NG was at teh ready per his announcement. Ready for the command he never gave. Go protect that group's right to speech and assembly.
Think about it though;
If you stand up to deliver your political Alt-Right message and on on your left elbow is David Duke from the KKK and on your right elbow is a guy dressed as a Storm Trooper from Storm Front, you might want to reconsider your message and who your "friends" are.
How can anyone in McCauliffe's position assist and/or protect you and your organization when it has been infiltrated by the likes of them? It's simply not going to ever happen.
If at any time in your life your find yourself surrounded on all sides by stupid people, guess what?
You have allowed yourself to become one of them.
I'm guessing that those organizations the KKK, the Nazi Party and now the Alt-Right are deeply infiltrated by informants for, if not agents of some pretty heavy government Law Enforcement. They are there to monitor and build cases.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-12-17, 23:06
I really don't like the asymmetry of 'alt right' versus 'counter protestors'.
They really need to find out what caused the helo to go down.
Think about it though;
If you stand up to deliver your political Alt-Right message and on on your left elbow is David Duke from the KKK and on your right elbow is a guy dressed as a Storm Trooper from Storm Front, you might want to reconsider your message and who your "friends" are.
True, but we are also talking about core Constitutional principals and I stopped trying to rationalize the irrational a long time ago. I don't care about any of these people or if they fail. All I care about is equal rights not being infringed.
What Liberals are saying now is that this was a terrorist gathering complete with fulfilled terrorist act. and of course Trump won't acknowledge it's terrorism.
McCauliffe and Charlottesville didn't have to let it play out like this. this wasn't the Million Man March. It wasn't even a small rock concert.
Averageman
08-13-17, 00:03
True, but we are also talking about core Constitutional principals and I stopped trying to rationalize the irrational a long time ago. I don't care about any of these people or if they fail. All I care about is equal rights not being infringed.
What Liberals are saying now is that this was a terrorist gathering complete with fulfilled terrorist act. and of course Trump won't acknowledge it's terrorism.
McCauliffe and Charlottesville didn't have to let it play out like this. this wasn't the Million Man March. It wasn't even a small rock concert.
No matter how much you and I can see the message and the results, the message and anything that could be good from that message is lost when you have Nazi's and the KKK as a part of your message and organization.
If you want to keep the integrity of the message, the people in your group and at your side must maintain the same level of unimpeachable integrity.
Core Constitutional principals are lost on people, the majority of the people in this Country have never read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and have no idea of how this Country was founded. 90% of those same people however know what the robes of the KKK and the uniform of the SS look like and if they see either of those, nothing you say will be heard.
I would guess there is no better example of what I am saying than the media taking the ball and running with "The Russians hacked the Election" only an idiot would believe that the Russians got in to our voting machines and changed the number of votes Hillary got. Say it long enough and loud enough and people will believe it, it is happening all around us.
If the Left is winning the Culture War, it is because the Right cannot deliver the message.
If the Left is winning the Culture War, it is because the Right cannot deliver the message.
And here we have a winner.
ramairthree
08-13-17, 00:21
I have no idea what went down there.
But in general, it seems to have provided news for millions of people that chose where they live, bought a home, work, and send their kids to school based heavily on racial demographics, and are disgusted by non Western European trends in society,
to express public outrage and maximize their virtue signaling over what a bunch of horrible racists were there.
As a person who considered myself "alternative right" I guess I need to stop referring to myself as such since it is basically now synonymous with nazi's, the klan, etc.
Maybe I can go back to considering myself a "tea party conservative", if that's still a thing. Whatever it is that distinguishes me from Paul Ryan, John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and the rest, well that's me.
How it is that a member of the Keating Five, John McCain, is still in office is beyond me. Funny how that group is usually portrayed as far right conservatives when McCain was the only Republican in the group.
Pointed social commentary aside...
Overall it seems some people are apparently incapable of leaving well enough the hell alone.
A story some have heard before- a couple years ago on the left coast there was a small event by a little group of bad ol' wacists at a certain state capitol.
What was a no-newsworthy event, made [inter]national news when a huge group of righteous asshats showed up to hit people with sticks and a couple folks got stabbed, for the simple fact that the leftists *had* to have a counter-event to "shut down" the bad ol' wacists...
Fast forward to today.... I had no idea there was a rally/protest-demo/whatever going down in C-ville until the stupid started. Now, I don't know who started it, and I really don't care, for the simple fact that if left the hell alone, there would currently be no nationally newsworthy event....
But hey, when your MO is just to shout "F*** you" louder then the fella across from you, I guess it just gets too addicting to pass up. Can't let 'em steal the spotlight and all that...
*sigh*
So now we have some asshat running people over with a car. Great. What is this Europe now?
Well, guess we'll have to endure a few [more] months of tolerance and understanding because of that twat.
Aaaaand this entire thread is why I desperately do not want to live in/near a major city.
No matter how much you and I can see the message and the results, the message and anything that could be good from that message is lost when you have Nazi's and the KKK as a part of your message and organization.
If you want to keep the integrity of the message, the people in your group and at your side must maintain the same level of unimpeachable integrity.
Sure. But the auto-blanket-assumption that the "other" side somehow maintains this incredible level of integrity only exists because right now, nobody wants to look to closely at the past/current affiliations and actions of those groups' leadership and participants....
Core Constitutional principals are lost on people, the majority of the people in this Country have never read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and have no idea of how this Country was founded. 90% of those same people however know what the robes of the KKK and the uniform of the SS look like and if they see either of those, nothing you say will be heard....
True, BUT.... in the same vein, you have people marching around waving overtly Communist/Socialist/Anarchist/etc. flags/signage and chanting associated political and racially oriented slogans, and yet not only are they being heard, none of the same stigma that *should* go along with certain elements of that crowd the same as the others folks poster-child hate is not only ignored, it's looked upon/portrayed as benign and even justified. Ergo:
Say it long enough and loud enough and people will believe it...
If the Left is winning the Culture War, it is because the Right cannot deliver the message.
Oh, the Right can deliver... they just can't stay on topic. :rolleyes:
"The term "Reichstag fire" is used by some writers to denote a calamitous event staged by a political movement, orchestrated in a manner that casts blame on their opponents, thus causing the opponents to be viewed with suspicion by the general public. This is sometimes known as a false flag attack when the event itself is caused by proponents of a political movement to falsely accuse their opponents."
In this case, I'm becoming more convinced as time goes on we are headed toward a very,very bad place.
I would guess again that all parties involved wanted a fight, that after Fridays events it wasn't stopped has me curious as to why not.
Those are the right questions. (see what I did there? ;) )
Sure, got to have something to "prove" the violent tendencies of the right (past and current history of the "other" side be damned...) so they can be cracked down upon.
Conversely, per the oft stated position among folks here of "what the hell, let 'em have at it" variety, maybe the authoritehs decided to do just that....?
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-17, 03:51
"The term "Reichstag fire" is used by some writers to denote a calamitous event staged by a political movement, orchestrated in a manner that casts blame on their opponents, thus causing the opponents to be viewed with suspicion by the general public. This is sometimes known as a false flag attack when the event itself is caused by proponents of a political movement to falsely accuse their opponents."
In this case, I'm becoming more convinced as time goes on we are headed toward a very,very bad place.
I would guess again that all parties involved wanted a fight, that after Fridays events it wasn't stopped has me curious as to why not.
After learning of the events yesterday I wondered how many participates on both sides were agent provocateurs on the .gov payroll. I'll be interested to see photos of the attendees footwear to see if any of them had duct tape or similar identifiers. COINTELPRO, PATCON, etc. come to mind. Terry Norman was a paid FBI provocateur at Kent State that got the ball rolling on that debacle.
There are forces at play here manipulating both sides and those in between.
Remember all those violent "counter protests" during Obama's eight year reign? Yeah me neither.
Reinforces my modus operandi of staying the **** away from crowds, especially political gatherings of any sort.
If the Left is winning the Culture War, it is because the Right cannot deliver the message.
The left is winning the culture war because equality and inclusiveness are morally just.
Enjoy the last throws 1950's America. We'll be better for it.
More progress from Kentucky: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-mayor-moves-to-remove-2-confederate-statues-after-charlottesville-protests/
BrigandTwoFour
08-13-17, 06:08
The left is winning the culture war because equality and inclusiveness are morally just.
Enjoy the last throws 1950's America. We'll be better for it.
More progress from Kentucky: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-mayor-moves-to-remove-2-confederate-statues-after-charlottesville-protests/
I don't agree. Equality and inclusiveness are not unique to one side of the spectrum.
The left has succeeded in seizing the narrative on those terms, and painted the right as the enemies of equality (racists, sexists, homophobes, misogynists, bigots, you name it).
Similarly, the right has seized the narrative on being "patriotic." IMO, that's why so many protests on the left have begun using communist symbols during protests, using historically American symbols is perceived as "right wing."
It's all virtue signaling.
I've grown increasingly frustrated over the whole Civil War statue thing. I had a discussion about it with a coworker who brings a relatively neutral perspective. He did his masters work in history at St. Andrews in Scotland. The bottom line is that there so much cultural relativism and revisionism going on that the truth has been long lost, and it is collectively sending us down a bad path.
No matter how much you and I can see the message and the results, the message and anything that could be good from that message is lost when you have Nazi's and the KKK as a part of your message and organization.
If you want to keep the integrity of the message, the people in your group and at your side must maintain the same level of unimpeachable integrity.
Core Constitutional principals are lost on people, the majority of the people in this Country have never read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and have no idea of how this Country was founded. 90% of those same people however know what the robes of the KKK and the uniform of the SS look like and if they see either of those, nothing you say will be heard.
I would guess there is no better example of what I am saying than the media taking the ball and running with "The Russians hacked the Election" only an idiot would believe that the Russians got in to our voting machines and changed the number of votes Hillary got. Say it long enough and loud enough and people will believe it, it is happening all around us.
If the Left is winning the Culture War, it is because the Right cannot deliver the message.
Insert the black berets of the NBPP and Jesse or Al into what you typed above and that is a better way to deliver a message? No. Only whites can be haters, didn't you get the memo? There needs to be an EVEN-HANDED approach to how these types of idiots are perceived and dealt with. I refuse to accept that the KKK/Nazi's/David Duke are worse than the NBPP/BLM/Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton/Quanel X. They are both equally abhorrent and need to be viewed as such.
The left is winning the culture war because equality and inclusiveness are morally just.
Enjoy the last throws 1950's America. We'll be better for it.
More progress from Kentucky: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-mayor-moves-to-remove-2-confederate-statues-after-charlottesville-protests/
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
If you are serious, remember "equality and inclusiveness are morally just" for EVERYONE, not a select side. To state otherwise is upholding the double standard that has contributed to this nonsense.
... and the hits just keep rolling in. A news reporter delivers the news to the Mother that her son just mowed down a crowd at the C'Ville rally. This is hard to watch at the end when she realizes what she has just been told.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN8owQR8d-M
Averageman
08-13-17, 08:43
No matter how repugnant I find the guy who drove the car in Charlotte , I see no reason for his Mom to pay the price, she actually appeared to be a nice person.
That's a bad ass reporter right there, he made a crippled Lady cry by confronting her with some horrible news about her Son being charged with murder.
I kind of hope when he wakes up at his dinner table in hell finds himself between Jack the Ripper and Ed Gein and oh, he is the main course.
skywalkrNCSU
08-13-17, 09:00
No matter how repugnant I find the guy who drove the car in Charlotte , I see no reason for his Mom to pay the price, she actually appeared to be a nice person.
That's a bad ass reporter right there, he made a crippled Lady cry by confronting her with some horrible news about her Son being charged with murder.
I kind of hope when he wakes up at his dinner table in hell finds himself between Jack the Ripper and Ed Gein and oh, he is the main course.
Guess she shouldn't have raised a racist, murdering piece of trash. We are quick to blame the parenting in other cases, it applies for white trash too.
My understanding, from reports I read, was that late (no time given) last night, a last ditch effort to move the rally to another location was shot down, and it was on. Also, I read that the official start time was noon, but of course, people were arriving in good numbers by around 10am, and some violence had started then. The excrement report, and the concrete filled cans report were both before noon. By around 1pm to 1:30, it had been declared an unlawful gathering. The car thing was around or after 2pm, IIRC.
I, too, feel the white supremacists were expecting a fight, and blm/antifa came to give them one.
Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk
I was off yesterday, before my cushy OT gig working a fireworks show, and this mirrors what I watched live bouncing between Fox and CNN. The assholes on both sides came out in ghetto riot gear with assorted helmets, shields, homemade impact weapons, pepper spray. I'm sure firearms where there too, just no one got shot. One day, someone will. The cops need to be allowed to start crushing this stuff once it gets out of hand and not just forming skirmish lines but hats, bats and water hoses 1960s style.
On the car incident. From the videos I've seen thus far it was not accidental. The car came down the street moving at a good clip, my estimate is somewhere between 30 and 40 MPH, right into the crowd. After it ground to a stop the driver put it in reverse and then went straight back for a couple of blocks. There was nothing accidental about it.
Finally, what is up with the guys who keep showing up at these sh!tshows all kitted out like they are in Afghanistan? Seriously, are they that desperate to show off their some speed, medium drag toys they show up to these things?
RetroRevolver77
08-13-17, 09:25
Let's not forget these people were armed with bats, throwing bags of piss into the faces of those who held a differing political view. They've been allowed to do so for well over a year- to act with impunity, act violently, and paint an entire group of people who just so happen to be Conservative as racists. Anyone that doesn't believe in globalism is racist, can be attacked without repercussion and have been repeatedly. Each time the Democrat mayors of whatever shithole cities they are from order their police officers to stand down allowing the violence to escalate. Now someone snaps, drives his car into a crowd and suddenly it's- oh no, look how violent the alt right is? A kid who joined the Republican party barely a year ago. Suddenly he's the face of the entire political movement? No, he is an indicator as to which way this situation is going.
skywalkrNCSU
08-13-17, 09:49
When will the rest of the alt right stand up and condemn this terrorists action?
#NotAllAltRighters
Outlander Systems
08-13-17, 10:00
Imbeciles. All of them.
Both sides can congratulate themselves on, "raising awareness" of how stupid they all are.
Inkslinger
08-13-17, 10:15
When will the rest of the alt right stand up and condemn this terrorists action?
#NotAllAltRighters
Exactly. That's my response when I hear the argument, "there are way more good Muslims than bad Muslims". That's great! There should be no problem smacking down the bad ones then...
Averageman
08-13-17, 10:32
When will the rest of the alt right stand up and condemn this terrorists action?
#NotAllAltRighters
The Alt-Right brand was handled by the professional race baiters and it will never be able to be used again in a way that doesn't tie them to the KKK and to the American Nazi Party. I was at one time pleasantly surprised to see those from the conservative movement appeal to young and energetic crowds and present an intelligent and articulate point of view. That likely scared a lot of people in power and it was dealt with accordingly.
Depending om your age you might recall that David Duke has been used several times in the past for just such purposes, he is a spoiler. Duke and the American Nazi partly glom on to spoil the chances of every new conservative movement and have for years.
That the Alt-Right didn't take action against them showing up and becoming a mouth piece for them speaks volumes about their total lack of experience and integrity.
Guess she shouldn't have raised a racist, murdering piece of trash. We are quick to blame the parenting in other cases, it applies for white trash too.
I don't think you "raise" a racist and after watching the interview a time or two She is more than likely just like every other Mother is in America, clueless as to the stuff her kids are hiding from her.
She appeared pretty surprised and very hurt when it dawned on he what that reporter was telling her. I can't come out and defend her, but having raised a teenager who at one time wanted to cast his first Presidential vote for Bernie Sanders, I understand how things can go sideways.
So yeah, She should have known better, taught her Son better and sat him down and told him some essential truths about American Politics.
Averageman
08-13-17, 10:37
Imbeciles. All of them.
Both sides can congratulate themselves on, "raising awareness" of how stupid they all are.
And I will go back and restate what I said earlier in this thread;
If at anytime you find yourself surrounded on all sides by angry, stupid and violent people, there is a very good chance you have made some pretty stupid decisions in life to find yourself there.
The left is winning the culture war because equality and inclusiveness are morally just.
Enjoy the last throws 1950's America. We'll be better for it.
More progress from Kentucky: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-mayor-moves-to-remove-2-confederate-statues-after-charlottesville-protests/
*sigh*
And, here we go again- what did I just say about people being incapable of leaving shit alone?
My God, you'd think they'd have got the memo after Obama got "gun salesman of the decade"... here's your sign, ya know?
Let's not forget these people were armed with bats, throwing bags of piss into the faces of those who held a differing political view. They've been allowed to do so for well over a year- to act with impunity, act violently, and paint an entire group of people who just so happen to be Conservative as racists. Anyone that doesn't believe in globalism is racist, can be attacked without repercussion and have been repeatedly. Each time the Democrat mayors of whatever shithole cities they are from order their police officers to stand down allowing the violence to escalate. Now someone snaps, drives his car into a crowd and suddenly it's- oh no, look how violent the alt right is? A kid who joined the Republican party barely a year ago. Suddenly he's the face of the entire political movement? No, he is an indicator as to which way this situation is going.
All that.
The Alt-Right brand was handled by the professional race baiters and it will never be able to be used again in a way that doesn't tie them to the KKK and to the American Nazi Party. I was at one time pleasantly surprised to see those from the conservative movement appeal to young and energetic crowds and present an intelligent and articulate point of view. That likely scared a lot of people in power and it was dealt with accordingly.
Depending om your age you might recall that David Duke has been used several times in the past for just such purposes, he is a spoiler. Duke and the American Nazi partly glom on to spoil the chances of every new conservative movement and have for years.
That the Alt-Right didn't take action against them showing up and becoming a mouth piece for them speaks volumes about their total lack of experience and integrity......
That too.
When will the rest of the alt right stand up and condemn this terrorists action?
#NotAllAltRighters
He was just triggered, man....
Wait... you say I can't use any of the usual excuses as an excuse? Hmm...
(No, I'm not condoning driving a car into people)
The anti Trump media goes off like girls gone wild when they think they can drive the narative they want from it. But for the most part, this country's heroin epidemic, which is claiming lives like 911 happening every three weeks and the carnage of Black gang violence happening in Chicaco and other cities around the country goes pretty much unreported on. The media has no answers, its just, Chrip, Chrip, Chrip unless its related to Trump. Thanks to Obama, the great deceiver and divider, this country appears more divided than ever.
And I will go back and restate what I said earlier in this thread;
If at anytime you find yourself surrounded on all sides by angry, stupid and violent people, there is a very good chance you have made some pretty stupid decisions in life to find yourself there.
...or just lost while on vacation. Which is what happened to me one time. Never underestimate the power of the U-turn. To me, it's never been right versus left. It's always been Good versus evil. As Yoni said earlier, the only good guys here were the police and firemen.
Outlander Systems
08-13-17, 11:10
Fact.
Regarding the political actors on both sides, and why I pity none of them:
If you go looking for trouble, don't be surprised when you find some.
As Yoni said earlier, the only good guys here were the police and firemen.
Averageman
08-13-17, 11:14
...or just lost while on vacation. Which is what happened to me one time. Never underestimate the power of the U-turn. To me, it's never been right versus left. It's always been Good versus evil. As Yoni said earlier, the only good guys here were the police and firemen.
Well and in your case, the guy who accidentally found himself in such a place at such a time and cut a U-Turn.
Situational awareness saves the day again.
Of course I was speaking about the people who attend these events itching for a fight and finding one.
Having a "Clark Griswald" moment is excusable.
I really don't like the asymmetry of 'alt right' versus 'counter protestors'.
They really need to find out what caused the helo to go down.
I have seen a video of the smoke plume and the people taking the vid say something like "oh my, it is". As in, oh my, it is the helicopter crash. At the same time there is another chopper there. You can see and hear it. Now how long he was nearby who knows, but you can also see those two pilots who have obviously landed at the site ( golf course ). One is standing and one is kneeling. So it's possible they saw and heard what happened. I'm guessing it was just one of those things where it simply fails but I suppose a very lucky shot from a rifle could have taken it down. I just don't see that.
Also apparently heard to stall then spin in. It must have really been bad as far as any control because they were over a golf course and you know you have about a 50/50 chance of hitting a clear spot. Although I guess a chopper goes straight down once it stalls and not able to make any sort of horizontal recovery like a plane might.
Sadly the media is getting exactly what they have been craving. These useful idiots are doing precisely as their puppet masters command and they don't even know it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
As a Jew, I will never have anything good to say about the KKK, or want to be Nazi's.
But the left is the true enemy of our future. They are going Stalin on us and the question is where will it end. You fell out of grace with Stalin, you got a bullet in the head and then you were scrubbed from photos and documents. Which is what the left is doing to the history of the USA, today it is the champions of State rights AKA Generals of the CSA. Tomorrow it will be Jefferson and Washington, because they owned slaves.
Today you protest the left and the left comes armed for battle, tomorrow if they gain power they will become as blood thirsty as Stalin.
KKK and their type are a handful of inbreed indiots, ignore them. The commy left AKS antifa, can not be ignored they must be fought. The FBI needs to investigate them as a terrorist group, and send people away or even to the needle.
Averageman
08-13-17, 12:30
As a Jew, I will never have anything good to say about the KKK, or want to be Nazi's.
But the left is the true enemy of our future. They are going Stalin on us and the question is where will it end. You fell out of grace with Stalin, you got a bullet in the head and then you were scrubbed from photos and documents. Which is what the left is doing to the history of the USA, today it is the champions of State rights AKA Generals of the CSA. Tomorrow it will be Jefferson and Washington, because they owned slaves.
Today you protest the left and the left comes armed for battle, tomorrow if they gain power they will become as blood thirsty as Stalin.
KKK and their type are a handful of inbreed indiots, ignore them. The commy left AKS antifa, can not be ignored they must be fought. The FBI needs to investigate them as a terrorist group, and send people away or even to the needle.
If history repeats itself the KKK and American Nazi Party are full of informants and agents there to build cases.
I think the AntiFa movement is much less organized and actually has only a handful of people at the helm. It's likely much easier on a College Campus to gather AntiFa Members to go protest and embolden some to commit violence than have someone sit still for a half hour and listen to understand why conservatism and free markets are the best hope for their future.
I don't give much of a damn about statues and/or parks, by when we begin rewriting history so no ones feelings are hurt, we are heading down the wrong road. Your analogy to Stalin's work in post revolutionary Russia is on point.
RetroRevolver77
08-13-17, 12:49
That crowd of globalists openly advocate for destruction and genocide of ethnic European people in their homelands through the guise of multi-culturalism.
If this was 1935 Germany and some Jewish man drove a truck into a crowd of Nazi's- would that be wrong?
For the record, I'm not advocating- I'm asking a morally hypothetical question.
7n6
skywalkrNCSU
08-13-17, 13:05
That crowd of globalists openly advocate for destruction and genocide of ethnic European people in their homelands through the guise of multi-culturalism.
If this was 1935 Germany and some Jewish man drove a truck into a crowd of Nazi's- would that be wrong?
For the record, I'm not advocating- I'm asking a morally hypothetical question.
7n6
You might not be advocating but you sure sound like you're excusing
When will the rest of the alt right stand up and condemn this terrorists action?
#NotAllAltRighters
I haven't seen anyone in this thread support the actions of the yahoos yesterday. I have seen a couple allude to parroting the one-sided MSM take on it though.
If this was 1935 Germany and some Jewish man drove a truck into a crowd of Nazi's- would that be wrong?
For the record, I'm not advocating- I'm asking a morally hypothetical question.
7n6
Hard to answer that, 1935 is maybe too early but add a couple of years and then it might be a different story. Act too early your a zero, executed or in prison. Act at the correct time your a hero.
In 1935 Jews were not in camps because they were Jews, but if I remember correctly at least 100,000 Germans' were in camps for being against Hitler and the Nazis'. So it would have made sense for a German to act before the Jews.
skywalkrNCSU
08-13-17, 13:38
The Alt-Right brand was handled by the professional race baiters and it will never be able to be used again in a way that doesn't tie them to the KKK and to the American Nazi Party. I was at one time pleasantly surprised to see those from the conservative movement appeal to young and energetic crowds and present an intelligent and articulate point of view. That likely scared a lot of people in power and it was dealt with accordingly.
Depending om your age you might recall that David Duke has been used several times in the past for just such purposes, he is a spoiler. Duke and the American Nazi partly glom on to spoil the chances of every new conservative movement and have for years.
That the Alt-Right didn't take action against them showing up and becoming a mouth piece for them speaks volumes about their total lack of experience and integrity.
I don't think you "raise" a racist and after watching the interview a time or two She is more than likely just like every other Mother is in America, clueless as to the stuff her kids are hiding from her.
She appeared pretty surprised and very hurt when it dawned on he what that reporter was telling her. I can't come out and defend her, but having raised a teenager who at one time wanted to cast his first Presidential vote for Bernie Sanders, I understand how things can go sideways.
So yeah, She should have known better, taught her Son better and sat him down and told him some essential truths about American Politics.
Are you seriously saying how you raise a kid has nothing to do if they are a racist or not?
Averageman
08-13-17, 13:55
Are you seriously saying how you raise a kid has nothing to do if they are a racist or not?
No, I am saying you can raise your children with the best of intent, guidance and rules. You can do everything from prepare balanced meals to coach sports and attend their activities. You can do all of that and regardless of what you have done to train them to be good and intelligent people you have to send them out in to the world.
That is where shit tends to go sideways.
Not every kid falls for this stuff to the degree that they are willing to drive a car in to a crowd of protesters, but I believe it is possible.
If on the other side you buy Junior a miniature "Grand Cyclops of the KKK" Halloween costume and celebrate your ethnic purity with the occasional burning cross, yeah, you are going to have issues.
I think that Lady in the wheelchair is more likely a single Mom who did here best and more like my first example than the latter one.
Just my opinion from watching her expressions and body language on the tape rather than my personal knowledge of how she raised that kid.
When will the rest of the alt right stand up and condemn this terrorists action?
#NotAllAltRighters
Seems like every GOP alternative is quickly populated by the tard contingent. The Libertarian party is a good example, should be about adhering to the principles on the constitution but it's mostly populated by the "legal weed" crowd and more recently by the "no war" crowd.
The Tea Party got hijacked. The MAGA movement almost got completely hijacked. And the "Alt Right" movement is now hijacked, and perhaps it was from the start and we simply didn't understand the extent of it.
Problem is when you are mostly sick of Obama, Hillary and Co. you seem to get some strange bedfellows.
PatrioticDisorder
08-13-17, 14:55
Serious question, does anyone actually know any of these white suppremicist/KKK/confederate/Nazi types? I know a ton of hard working, patriotic conservative Americans that are all in on #MAGA and I don't know a single nut job type like what was in Charlottesville.
Averageman
08-13-17, 15:12
No, I can say I honestly don't associate with anyone who is a white supremacist, belongs to the Nazi Party or is a part of the KKK.
More than likely it is because of cultural values. I live in an ethnically diverse neighborhood that is comprised of about 50% military retiree's. Upper middle class folks with nice cars and yards who have children who say "Sir and Ma'am" when they talk to adults.
I have little desire to cross cultures and venture in to ghetto's or trailer parks to pursue fun and adventure. If you are conservative, moderately successful and want to sleep well at night I would imagine your neighborhood is a lot like mine.
I didn't get here because of my "White Privilege" to be frank when I lost a job opportunity because I couldn't qualify to be a "Diversity Hire" so I joined the Military and had a decent career. I went to school nights, weekends and even at lunch at times to get my College degree and when I retired, I went to look for another career immediately.
I've taken a number of crappy jobs in order to find a second career. I've volunteered to work oversea's to make more money to better the life of my small family and to save for my Son to go to college.
The really neat thing about America is, If you work your ass off you might not get rich, but you can be damned comfortable in life.
Why the folks at anti-fa haven't been taught this lesson or seen the examples of this happening around them is a mystery to me.
Averageman
08-13-17, 15:22
More about the suspect;
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/13/charlottesville-suspects-mom-told-him-to-protest-peacefully.html
The mother of the man who police say killed a woman when he plowed a car into a group of protesters during a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., Saturday said she urged her son that if he was going to the rally to “be careful.”
"I thought it had something to do with Trump. Trump's not a white supremacist," said Bloom, who became visibly upset as she learned of the injuries and deaths at the rally.
"He had an African-American friend so ...," she said before her voice trailed off. She added that she'd be surprised if her son's views were that far right.
“I don’t talk to him about political views,” she said. “So I don’t understand what the rally was about.”
Bloom told the paper her son moved out of her home “five or six months ago.” He had an apartment, she said.
They moved to northwest Ohio from Florence, Ky., about a year ago for her job, the Blade reported.
For the record, I'm not advocating- I'm asking a morally hypothetical question.
7n6
Unless you were in declared war and even then the action may not be moral. For instance what were those NAZIs doing? Were they surrendering?
If I am reading you correctly your question is what can be done about the "multi-curtural" "all inclusive" Liberal crowds that shout down any dialog that they don't initiate.
The answer is NOT to drive a car into them and expect it to be morally justified.
Averageman
08-13-17, 15:30
Unless you were in declared war and even then the action may not be moral. For instance what were those NAZIs doing? Were they surrendering?
If I am reading you correctly your question is what can be done about the "multi-curtural" "all inclusive" Liberal crowds that shout down any dialog that they don't initiate.
The answer is NOT to drive a car into them and expect it to be morally justified.
This guy spent four months in the Military before he was chaptered out. If you've served any time in the military, this guy either had some serious injury, a unknown health issue the military found or was bat crap crazy.
I think I will vote for the third choice based on recent events.
Serious question, does anyone actually know any of these white suppremicist/KKK/confederate/Nazi types? I know a ton of hard working, patriotic conservative Americans that are all in on #MAGA and I don't know a single nut job type like what was in Charlottesville.
I live in the South, out in the sticks no less. I no of no one that I associate with that is a 88'er, Klansman, or white supremacist.
Serious question, does anyone actually know any of these white suppremicist/KKK/confederate/Nazi types? I know a ton of hard working, patriotic conservative Americans that are all in on #MAGA and I don't know a single nut job type like what was in Charlottesville.
I've never knowingly met one and I live in "The City of the Monuments". Not even a hint of that sort of mentality or lifestyle.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-17, 15:45
Seems like every GOP alternative is quickly populated by the tard contingent. The Libertarian party is a good example, should be about adhering to the principles on the constitution but it's mostly populated by the "legal weed" crowd and more recently by the "no war" crowd.
The Tea Party got hijacked. The MAGA movement almost got completely hijacked. And the "Alt Right" movement is now hijacked, and perhaps it was from the start and we simply didn't understand the extent of it.
Problem is when you are mostly sick of Obama, Hillary and Co. you seem to get some strange bedfellows.
It wasn't as much hijacked as misappropriated by the MSM, Who frankly, because they're all just far left progressives probably can't tell the difference. It gets back to the myth that all Trump supporters are ill educated white dumbasses. And racist too. This fits their narrative so they went with it.
Step back for a moment and contemplate what would be happening now if this had happened during a Hillary Clinton presidency.
They say white nationalist, but what they really want to say is racist patriot. And patriot to them is not a good word.
The asymmetrical treatment of Nazi versus communist symbology and imagery is truly one of the greatest educational Tragianese to come out on the 20th century.
The asymmetrical treatment of Nazi versus communist symbology and imagery is truly one of the greatest educational Tragianese to come out on the 20th century.
I don't suppose you could say that in a different way or give an example? I'll be honest, I have no idea what that means.
We know the Left Media is in lockstep. That's just a given that can't be denied any longer. Agree on the "racist patriot".
But I can't quite see where you are coming from on the rest.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-17, 16:48
Tragedy, not what ever Siri put in there.
Soviet and Chinese communism killed as many innocents in the 20th as Nazism. People forget the alliance between the Germans and Russians at the start of WWII. The west almost sent troops and support to Finland to fight the Soviets and declare war the soviets for invading Poland.
Maybe for pure concentrated evil the Nazi 'win', but communism for all its evil has almost reverent following.
That, and going after Lee is a pretty stupid move. A total lack of understanding of history and his place in it.
Averageman
08-13-17, 17:28
Tragedy, not what ever Siri put in there.
Soviet and Chinese communism killed as many innocents in the 20th as Nazism. People forget the alliance between the Germans and Russians at the start of WWII. The west almost sent troops and support to Finland to fight the Soviets and declare war the soviets for invading Poland.
Maybe for pure concentrated evil the Nazi 'win', but communism for all its evil has almost reverent following.
That, and going after Lee is a pretty stupid move. A total lack of understanding of history and his place in it.
I think your giving communism a pass there partner.
if you weigh in the Korean, Viet Nam wars and Pol Pots little venture in to mass murder and the execution of political rivals communism has a hands down major lead over the Nazi's, concentrated evil or not. Lets also not forget we have little idea just how many victims today are still being killed in places like North Korea.
Communism seems to have developed a new luster for a generation that simply have no idea of how many people it has murdered to achieve its goals.
left here and online and the media only wants to see the nazi side as the bad ones and the other side as the saviors and good ones
pretty pathetic
left here and online and the media only wants to see the nazi side as the bad ones and the other side as the saviors and good ones
pretty pathetic
That is the narrative that needs to stop, but it won't. They can't say "Gee, what a bunch of assholes just ran into each other". Nope, it's "Those WHITE haters oppressed those poor, peaceful counter-protestors". :fie:
I just keep thinking: Thank God that the a-hole in the car used a car instead of a rifle…
About the whole story: Our nation has been successfully divided. Divided we fall, and falling we are...
I just keep thinking: Thank God that the a-hole in the car used a car instead of a rifle…
About the whole story: Our nation has been successfully divided. Divided we fall, and falling we are...
Well for about the last decade this is what they've wanted, now they've got it. Hope they're happy, but I know they have more in mind.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-17, 18:31
White nationalists ran into Progressives, or fringe Progressives is the reality. Unfortunately the MSM is blind to the problems of the left because of their hatred of anything to the right of their leftist position.
The use of the term "counter protestors" proves, indisputably, this fact.
On communism vs fascism, I'll go for evil parity before the championship round for the overall 'winner' of the losers.
The biggest loss here is that we could have had a condemnation of the fringe on both sides, but because of the MSM-Edu-GOV cabal controlling the message, we get that 50% of the country is represented by these protesters.
Know what I want? As a conservative Constitutionalist (Tea Party guy if they still exist) I want PURITY on my side. No, not racial purity, but purity of thought. Yeah, I know it's a pipe dream, as everyone sees things just a tad differently, but I'm talking the "Big Picture" here. If someone is black/brown/yellow/green with purple spots I don't care as long as we see things from a conservative Constitutionalist point of view.
Don't like me 'cause I'm white? Go f**k yourself. Don't like them just because they're black? Go f**k yourself. Pretty simple.
Averageman
08-13-17, 18:39
And for the Surprise of the day, from the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/08/13/fear-of-violent-left-preceded-events-in-charlottesville/?utm_term=.e8c3e460d12a
Goldy’s report, which transformed into police evidence after James Alex Fields Jr. allegedly plowed his car into counterprotesters, was representative of a theme that had risen from far-right media to the mainstream since President Trump’s inauguration. The growth of “antifa,” a loose and often ad hoc network of left-wing “antifascist” groups, has been covered as a rising danger to law and order, a justification for alt-right organizations to organize armed rallies — and for ordinary Americans to arm themselves, too.
The “antifa” concept has existed for almost as long as fascism itself, but in the wake of Trump’s victory, organizers claimed to be seeing an influx of new energy and new recruits. In the lead-up to Inauguration Day, conservative undercover sting artist James O’Keefe released video of D.C. antifascist organizers plotting Jan. 20 disruptions. Even as they faced questions from law enforcement, antifa allies used “black bloc” tactics to rage across the area just outside of the inaugural parade, donning masks, smashing windows and burning cars.
The Inauguration Day actions included an assault on white nationalist leader Richard Spencer, footage of which went viral. But video of the property damage took on greater import, as some conservatives began using it to portray an out-of-control left. Weeks after the inauguration, antifa activists committed $100,000 in property damage and several assaults in protests that shut down a University of California at Berkeley speech by then-Breitbart editor Milo Yiannopoulos. In a Feb. 24 speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference, the National Rifle Assocation’s Wayne LaPierre linked those events with incidents of people being attacked if they supported the president.
I doubt if people will listen, but there is some of this type of reporting going on.
The more I think about this, the more it is a far less significant version of the Greensboro shooting.
You had the ACP and the KKK shooting at each other. I only wish everyone had come better prepared.
The more I think about this, the more it is a far less significant version of the Greensboro shooting.
You had the ACP and the KKK shooting at each other. I only wish everyone had come better prepared.
Damn, I had forgot about that. Good point!
Averageman
08-13-17, 19:56
Especially since this could have, should have been shut down long before anything occurred.
SomeOtherGuy
08-13-17, 20:08
Serious question, does anyone actually know any of these white suppremicist/KKK/confederate/Nazi types? I know a ton of hard working, patriotic conservative Americans that are all in on #MAGA and I don't know a single nut job type like what was in Charlottesville.
Zero and literally zero ever.
I'm going to bet that actual mailing-list membership of the KKK is 1000 or less nationwide. Wouldn't surprise me if it was more like 100. I'd bet the same for neo-Nazi groups that have uniforms and titles would be in the same 3-digit range.
Stay tuned...Richmond will be next. We have the ultimate REL monument.
http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/virginia-receives-request-for-a-september-rally-at-the-robert/article_1964626e-ccd4-56d9-89e4-d084e92e8607.html
They really need to find out what caused the helo to go down.
I'm sure they will. Prayers out for the Troopers and their families.
I hope one of the aviators weighs-in here, but it has always seemed to me that police aircraft crash at a much higher rate than either commercial or civil aviation.
I tend to look at things from a harm to activity ratio. Given that, two things I wouldn't do - be a motor officer or in a LE aviation unit.
Serious question, does anyone actually know any of these white suppremicist/KKK/confederate/Nazi types? I know a ton of hard working, patriotic conservative Americans that are all in on #MAGA and I don't know a single nut job type like what was in Charlottesville.
Can you define know for me? I've had run ins with KKK members, or those who claimed to be members, and people claiming AB affiliation. Wouldn't stoop low enough to claim they are even acquaintances as much as passing assholes I got to deal with, some who were more than eager to chat my ear off, but I've run into more than a few in my adventures. Can't say I can speak on either group as an expert, but, they are out there, some more open about their feelings than others, some in places you wouldn't expect, and some with a very strange definition of their supremacist beliefs. Can also state that their recruiting is more word of mouth than mailing lists, the KKK I would also say has likely more than 1,000 members, maybe not much more than 10,000 members, but the 1,000 mark is just low in my honest opinion of what I have seen. I would also say this, from what I have seen, the KKK's general message has more who are, if not openly agreeing, has more quiet sympathies as far as it general antisemitic and racist propaganda, and in places that might honestly shock you. The AB/Neo/fringe groups they have less support, but it is still there.
And since I just made a comment on something I am sure a lot were hoping would be ignored. No, I am a not member of either, nor have I ever been a member, and my religious background would make me persona non grata in both. So for anyone wanting to start screaming I'm KKK, kindly piss off.
Damn, I had forgot about that. Good point!
While Obama has undone a great deal of the racial progress we've made in the last few decades, we still aren't to the point of the late 60s and early 70s. I don't think most people who weren't there understand how bad it actually was. They seem to believe it was a "one sided" race conflict that was confined to a few backward redneck states in the south. Very few even remember that it was the American Communist Party that was organizing many "anti Klan" rallies.
And if you want to talk about Russian "hijacking" it was the real deal during the cold war when Moscow had actual trained sleeper agents in this country using things like "civil rights" to try and undermine our entire government. They did quite a bit more than the equivalent of exposing some emails.
It has started in Richmond now:
http://www.nbc12.com/story/36126476/protest-underway-in-richmond-near-vcu
Stay tuned...Richmond will be next. We have the ultimate REL monument.
http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/virginia-receives-request-for-a-september-rally-at-the-robert/article_1964626e-ccd4-56d9-89e4-d084e92e8607.html
No need to wait. Antifa is here right now. Marching in the streets, "Take down the monuments" and other chants that can't be played on the news. It's 11:30 they have come out under cover of darkness, things are getting rowdy. There was absolutely -nothing- happening here today except the Jazz Festival and that was no where near Monument Ave.
I can't believe the crap I'm hearing out of C'Ville. You know that Jason guy spoke to the crowd today and with State Police standing right there some guy walks up and put a pretty heavy duty punch on him.
So they interview this guy.. 'This is not C'Ville we are good people, I'm glad he got attacked' WTF!
Then they interview this older lady. We didn't want him to have an audience in front of 'our' City Hall. did she not know he was represented in court by the Rutherford Institute, a Charlottesville based law firm that defends against civil abuse?
Charlottesville - We are good and will kick your ass to prove it.
Anyway... an hour away, they have come right down the line. Here is Richmond Sunday night. No one is giving race speeches, no KK, no slave owners with whips... but for some reason in the middle of the night Antifa wants to take down the monuments.
Channel 6 News:
RICHMOND, Va. — Protesters screaming “take down the monuments” have taken to the streets in Richmond near VCU’s main campus and are headed for the city’s historic Monument Avenue.
Richmond police posted on Twitter that a protest was underway on West Broad Street.
As of 10:50 p.m. police said the demonstrators had turned onto Lombardy Avenue and were headed for Monument Avenue.
“Tear the racist statues down,” the group yelled as one person climbed up the Lee monument and appeared to try to
Roads are blocked and police urged drivers to “proceed with caution.”
https://twitter.com/RichmondPolice
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-17, 04:34
The left is winning the culture war because equality and inclusiveness are morally just.
As a heterosexual White biological male that identifies as one I'll let you know when the left treats me equally compared to ANYONE else.
We'll be better for it.
Sure, the escalation of political violence is proof of that . . .
More progress from Kentucky: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-mayor-moves-to-remove-2-confederate-statues-after-charlottesville-protests/
So if people keep erasing history and inserting their own revisionist history did slavery every really happen? Where's the evidence of it if it's all been censored?
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-17, 04:41
Guess she shouldn't have raised a racist, murdering piece of trash.
I wonder, will this racist murdering piece of trash be charged with a hate crime considering the only person murdered was White?
Heather Heyer, Charlottesville Victim, Is Recalled as ‘a Strong Woman’
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/13/us/heather-heyer-charlottesville-victim.html
So if people keep erasing history and inserting their own revisionist history did slavery every really happen? Where's the evidence of it if it's all been censored?
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future." Straight out of George Orwell's 1984.
Yeah all those neo nazi's and kkk members that were out rallying for Obama right? I'm sure that side is consistently voting democrat...47028
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 08:17
47028
Oh that must be why all the neo nazi's had MAGA hats on. They must've voted for Hildog in droves right?
The intentional ignorance on this topic is disgusting. We should be doing everything we can to distance ourselves from these groups yet it is like Trump and others refuse to condemn them so that they don't lose votes. This is the same thing as Obama refusing to say radical Islam.
We are all in agreement that BLM and antifa are bad, hateful groups. However, they don't tend to vote the same way we do so rallying against them is just one big circle jerk here. There should be zero tolerance for these white supremacist groups feeling like we are on the same team because if that's who I have to team up with I'm out.
While Obama has undone a great deal of the racial progress we've made in the last few decades, we still aren't to the point of the late 60s and early 70s.
Totally agree. I said the same on another forum and was basically shouted down regarding how much worse it is now. I was born the 40s, was in uniform at the time and lived thru it.
I don't think most people who weren't there understand how bad it actually was. Again, totally agree, but why should we expect anything different? Most people think their own recent experience is all there is.
Oh that must be why all the neo nazi's had MAGA hats on. They must've voted for Hildog in droves right?
The intentional ignorance on this topic is disgusting. We should be doing everything we can to distance ourselves from these groups yet it is like Trump and others refuse to condemn them so that they don't lose votes. This is the same thing as Obama refusing to say radical Islam.
We are all in agreement that BLM and antifa are bad, hateful groups. However, they don't tend to vote the same way we do so rallying against them is just one big circle jerk here. There should be zero tolerance for these white supremacist groups feeling like we are on the same team because if that's who I have to team up with I'm out.
Will you cut out the persecution complex already? As I said before, I haven't seen anyone in this thread who didn't condemn the Nazi/KKK/white supremacists. And Trump said exactly what he should have: time for this crap to stop "....from many sides". Is that wrong? From "many sides" would seem to implicate the aforementioned assholes, correct? Or did I miss something?
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 10:05
Will you cut out the persecution complex already? As I said before, I haven't seen anyone in this thread who didn't condemn the Nazi/KKK/white supremacists. And Trump said exactly what he should have: time for this crap to stop "....from many sides". Is that wrong? From "many sides" would seem to implicate the aforementioned assholes, correct? Or did I miss something?
When stormfronters are happy with Trumps comments there is something wrong. He needs to be condemning them but he won't because they voted for him.
I'm sure they will. Prayers out for the Troopers and their families.
I hope one of the aviators weighs-in here, but it has always seemed to me that police aircraft crash at a much higher rate than either commercial or civil aviation.
I tend to look at things from a harm to activity ratio. Given that, two things I wouldn't do - be a motor officer or in a LE aviation unit.
LE Aviation tends to get far more press coverage than other sectors of the industry (for good & bad). You are a highly visible representation of the agency. Additionally many agencies also engage in SAR which increases the amount of media coverage. Overall the accident rate is pretty much representative of the type of flying being accomplished, such as utility, ext load, night nvg, etc.
47030
When stormfronters are happy with Trumps comments there is something wrong. He needs to be condemning them but he won't because they voted for him.
I wouldn't use bigots' emotional response as a litmus test for right and wrong. Same concept of some on the right who think if dems hate it, it must be good.
When stormfronters are happy with Trumps comments there is something wrong. He needs to be condemning them but he won't because they voted for him.
So if you think what Trump said was appropriate you're a Stormfronter? Or do you mean that if a Stormfronter is okay with it that there is something wrong?
I find what he said appropriate to ALL parties involved in the shenanigans of this past weekend. If you recall the violence preceding shithead running into people was between BOTH sides; it certainly wasn't one-sided. Therefore what Trump said was (for a change) entirely appropriate. If it had been a BLM/Antifa who had ran into a Klansman I would say the same statement was appropriate. I don't feel a need to specifiy one group when BOTH were wrong, no matter which way it played out, especially since both groups were involved in this incident. If it had been a KKK/Skinhead who shot up a black church or something then yes, that singling out would apply.
What I suspect is that you think Trump needs to fall all over himself paying lip service to an anti-Klan/Nazi/supremacist message only. Again, if they were the only ones involved of course. But that wasn't the case. It was a collision of assholes and one side upped the ante. Could very well have been the other way around.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 11:00
So if you think what Trump said was appropriate you're a Stormfronter? Or do you mean that if a Stormfronter is okay with it that there is something wrong?
I find what he said appropriate to ALL parties involved in the shenanigans of this past weekend. If you recall the violence preceding shithead running into people was between BOTH sides; it certainly wasn't one-sided. Therefore what Trump said was (for a change) entirely appropriate. If it had been a BLM/Antifa who had ran into a Klansman I would say the same statement was appropriate. I don't feel a need to specifiy one group when BOTH were wrong, no matter which way it played out.
Of course I agree that all parties involved were wrong and it is good to call out both groups. There is one major thing though and that is Trump has neo nazi and kkk members supporting him. He doesn't have antifa or blm members supporting him.
He has to come out in hard disapproval of the groups that support him or it looks like he is fine with their support and thus their ideals. Just a generic, those things were bad and both groups are bad is incredibly weak. He should not want their support, he should condemn their actions in a way that there is 0% chance they could interpret what he says as a positive for their movement.
He should obviously condemn the radical left and the media for not condemning them as well but when your condemnation of nazi groups is so weak that they cheer in agreement there is something wrong.
I read that one of the organizers was Jason Kessler, who until November 2016 was a muckitymuck with the Occupy movement and was a big-time Obama supporter. In January 2017 he started "Unity & Security for America," touted as a "white supremacist group," ostensibly to attempt to tie Trump, et al., to that movement.
I am attempting to verify the veracity of this information.
ffhounddog
08-14-17, 11:14
What is Ironic is that he said it about all sides but one side is upset that it is directed at them as well as the other side. The other side is saying well it was not directed at us so but that is the issue both sides are spinning it for their own purposes.
Who loses the people of the US and the President because if he attacks one side then he is a divider since they are both in the wrong after the permit folks were asked to leave. I heard that the Police blocked of some easy ways out but they have an odd notion that they have to leave in the line of fire. That is for people who are there to say because I am 4000 miles away right now.
I think the President did the right thing and its only the Media who got use to the President taking a side before Facts are presented. So far if the Antifa and BLM did not show up this would not have happened. One hour protest then they would be gone. Instead they have other people whom I was told threw items in balloons form Feces and Urine to something that burned. That would be a fight because it could be Acid or lets say you have a open wound and its worse. That is an issue with the counter protest they attack with what I call Biological weapons that could kill.
So if that is the case then ironically this could be self defense. There are a lot of issues with the Media they do not have the stones to ask the tough questions like in the past and I had no idea that the Press was this hateful.
I have only be gone since October fighting ISIS what the **** America is trying to be ISIS light with removing monuments and history. Good Job. I guess I come home and I need to get in a 1152 and wear armor and carry a M4 everywhere.
Averageman
08-14-17, 11:20
I think expecting Trump to jump to conclusions before all of the information and evidence is available is some sort of policy hangover from eight years of Obama.
The Mayor and the Governor are responsible for this mess. There was no reason after the events of Friday night for this to continue.
Why no immediate response? It simply wouldn't feed the narrative and rage.
Coal Dragger
08-14-17, 11:36
When stormfronters are happy with Trumps comments there is something wrong. He needs to be condemning them but he won't because they voted for him.
So if a hate group that Trump can't control is happy with something Trump did or said that means Trump is bad. Interesting logic there.
So if Stormfront assholes like hotdogs does that make hotdogs bad?
Voodoochild
08-14-17, 11:39
I think expecting Trump to jump to conclusions before all of the information and evidence is available is some sort of policy hangover from eight years of Obama.
The Mayor and the Governor are responsible for this mess. There was no reason after the events of Friday night for this to continue.
Why no immediate response? It simply wouldn't feed the narrative and rage.
No immediate response because the mayor screwed the pooch by telling police to stand down. Which lead to an all bets are off situation. Not favoring sides here but one side had permission to stay in one area and gather peacefully but we're subsequently kicked out and out in the open. Thus allowing the mixture of groups to converge and start the battle.
The Gov of VA is a rat fink bastard. Also to add I would not be surprised to see multiple law suits coming out of this from multiple sides.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 11:44
So if a hate group that Trump can't control is happy with something Trump did or said that means Trump is bad. Interesting logic there.
So if Stormfront assholes like hotdogs does that make hotdogs bad?
If you can't see the difference there I don't know what to tell you. His message should be so anti nazi/kkk that there should be no other way to interpret it.
I can't even believe this is a discussion. The portion of his response directed at neo nazis should be more than clear that he does not support their ideals and does not want their support.
You are the company you keep
Averageman
08-14-17, 11:45
No immediate response because the mayor screwed the pooch by telling police to stand down. Which lead to an all bets are off situation. Not favoring sides here but one side had permission to stay in one area and gather peacefully but we're subsequently kicked out and out in the open. Thus allowing the mixture of groups to converge and start the battle.
The Gov of VA is a rat fink bastard. Also to add I would not be surprised to see multiple law suits coming out of this from multiple sides.
So based on what we know, you might ask yourself, "Were they expecting and hoping for a confrontation?"
They were both either totally inept, or are now basking in the Trump hate drama that was created.
LE Aviation tends to get far more press coverage than other sectors of the industry (for good & bad). You are a highly visible representation of the agency. Additionally many agencies also engage in SAR which increases the amount of media coverage. Overall the accident rate is pretty much representative of the type of flying being accomplished, such as utility, ext load, night nvg, etc.
47030
Thanks for the reply, I don't think you understand what I meant by 'harm to activity ratio.'
According to the chart you supplied law enforcement aviation accounts for 3.1% of all crashes. That is, in my view very disproportionate considering the percentage of flight hours logged by LE aircraft compared to other usage.
Stated another way - do you think that LE flies 3.1% of the total flight hours? Break it down by accident by flight hour and you might feel as I do.
Just my thoughts. Same with police motorcycles. Compare their accident rate per mile ridden with the general motorcycling public. No thanks, if I took over an agency with motors the first thing I'd do is get rid of them as daily patrol or traffic units. BTW right now I have three personal motorcycles sitting in the garage. I ride daily some weeks, most weeks 3 or 4 days a week.
Just the way I think on the topic.
Voodoochild
08-14-17, 12:08
They had to know that by pushing the folks in the park where the ACLU fought for their right to assemble there out into the open that it was going to hit the fan. And when it did there was basically no police presence to prevent what happened from happening. So it was a complete free for all. So again who ordered the people out of the park and the police stand down?
You have two (if not more) groups that hate each other coming together and no DMZ to prevent all out brawls. What exactly did the mayor think was going to happen?
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-14-17, 12:09
If you can't see the difference there I don't know what to tell you. His message should be so anti nazi/kkk that there should be no other way to interpret it.
I can't even believe this is a discussion. The portion of his response directed at neo nazis should be more than clear that he does not support their ideals and does not want their support.
You are the company you keep
Open your eyes and head. You think that these WS would switch to the Dems if Trump comes out against them? You think these white trash inherently support a New York billionaire with Jewish grandchildren? They know the tune has two notes, and the progressives are out to kill them. You think the Ukrainians thought the Nazis were the best guys to partner with in WWII ? It isn't that they find trump to be their guy, but oddly these idiots have figured out that they have to choose a side. That is something that the big brains in the GOP can't figure out.
Who do you think the NAMBLA people vote for?
I still want to see someone with a camera interview the WS and ask them to spell 'supremacist'.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 12:14
Open your eyes and head. You think that these WS would switch to the Dems if Trump comes out against them? You think these white trash inherently support a New York billionaire with Jewish grandchildren? They know the tune has two notes, and the progressives are out to kill them. You think the Ukrainians thought the Nazis were the best guys to partner with in WWII ? It isn't that they find trump to be their guy, but oddly these idiots have figured out that they have to choose a side. That is something that the big brains in the GOP can't figure out.
Who do you think the NAMBLA people vote for?
I still want to see someone with a camera interview the WS and ask them to spell 'supremacist'.
Of course they aren't going to start voting democrat, that was one of my first points from the idiotic take that neo nazis are more democrat than republican. That said, there is a difference in staying silent when they support you and your political party and denouncing their beliefs.
We know that muslims will likely support democrats over republicans and if some radical Islamist preacher came out in support of the next democrat candidate we would expect them to denounce said endorsement. The same should be happening here. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that Trump and Republicans find these groups absolutely disgusting.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-14-17, 12:36
So BHO would make his statement and then go kiss CAIRs ass, wag his finger like an AQ wanna-b and talk about his Muslim faith (This Week with George "I'm not an operative" Stuffmeinashoebox). Trump started strong in his first tweet and then fell apart. He is going from having good days (Nom acceptance speech, Poland) to having good half of tweets. Ivanka needs to slap the crap out of him to get him to focus.
Unless Trump puts the neo-nazis in concentration camps, the left will never be happy with his response. He could at least try to win 51% of people with his comments.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 12:42
Amazing how taking the position that Trump should denounce neo nazis gets met with resistance around here
Amazing how taking the position that Trump should denounce neo nazis gets met with resistance around here
Trump from today:
“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”
Happy? Or does "....and other hate groups" ruin it for you?
CrazyFingers
08-14-17, 12:58
You know, things can get fuzzy and confusing these days, and I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with most politicians on both sides on various topics.
However...
As an American, I think that there is still one crystal clear litmus test for deciding whose side one should be on. If two groups are seeking your support, and one of those groups are literally Nazis, then that is the wrong group.
Period.
A man who finds himself struggling to understand this has made some profoundly poor choices at some point in his life. A man who cannot clearly and unequivocally denounce Nazis and everything they stand for is a coward and as un-American as it gets.
Averageman
08-14-17, 13:02
Amazing how taking the position that Trump should denounce neo nazis gets met with resistance around here
He should have condemned the Mayor and Governor first.
Not naming a specific group before the evidence is in seems prudent to me.
Condemning all involved when and as he did was the kind of truth Anti-Fa hate.
Trump's speech today seemed correct and timely.
You know, things can get fuzzy and confusing these days, and I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with most politicians on both sides on various topics.
However...
As an American, I think that there is still one crystal clear litmus test for deciding whose side one should be on. If two groups are seeking your support, and one of those groups are literally Nazis, then that is the wrong group.
Period.
A man who finds himself struggling to understand this has made some profoundly poor choices at some point in his life. A man who cannot clearly and unequivocally denounce Nazis and everything they stand for is a coward and as un-American as it gets.
So, to carry on that train of thought.......I would expect all Dems to now come out and tell the racist BLM and Antifa hate groups that they do not want their support. Hell, even just to condemn their activities or dare criticize them.
I'll be waiting.
EDIT: maybe you phrased it wrong but you said "If two groups are seeking your support...." Who is seeking Trump's support? Did you mean "If you are seeking the support of two groups...."?
You know, things can get fuzzy and confusing these days, and I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with most politicians on both sides on various topics.
However...
As an American, I think that there is still one crystal clear litmus test for deciding whose side one should be on. If two groups are seeking your support, and one of those groups are literally Nazis, then that is the wrong group.
Period.
A man who finds himself struggling to understand this has made some profoundly poor choices at some point in his life. A man who cannot clearly and unequivocally denounce Nazis and everything they stand for is a coward and as un-American as it gets.
What if the other side are literally communists and are supported by ACTUAL members of government and advocacy groups like the SPLC? Do you still choose a side? Both want to destroy this nation and remove the rights of the constitution.
I just don't fear American nazis, it's not like the actual NSDAP of the 1930s where they actually had popular support, political power and support from elements of the military. Not even sure they make my Top 50 list of credible threats to the nation. They don't even seem to be able to agree on stated goals beyond "I don't like other races, etc."
CrazyFingers
08-14-17, 13:07
So, to carry on that train of thought.......I would expect all Dems to now come out and tell the racist BLM and Antifa hate groups that they do not want their support.
I'll be waiting.
And as soon as BLM or Antifa round up a few million people and gas them in camps, I'd say your comparison is accurate.
I'll be waiting.
And as soon as BLM or Antifa round up a few million people and gas them in camps, I'd say your comparison is accurate.
I'll be waiting.
Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot.....need more?
Yeah, the good old double standard. I should've known. Liberal much?
CrazyFingers
08-14-17, 13:12
EDIT: maybe you phrased it wrong but you said "If two groups are seeking your support...." Who is seeking Trump's support? Did you mean "If you are seeking the support of two groups...."?
I typed exactly what I meant.
Averageman
08-14-17, 13:12
It wasn't a question of condemning Nazis, that's a pretty easy task.
It was a question of condemning those responsible for the violence at the rally/protest.
Laying the blame where it belongs? Start with the Governor and work your way down the line.
What if the other side are literally communists and are supported by ACTUAL members of government and advocacy groups like the SPLC? Do you still choose a side? Both want to destroy this nation and remove the rights of the constitution.
I just don't fear American nazis, it's not like the actual NSDAP of the 1930s where they actually had popular support, political power and support from elements of the military. Not even sure they make my Top 50 list of credible threats to the nation. They don't even seem to be able to agree on stated goals beyond "I don't like other races, etc."
Steyr, when you (not you personally) carry the Golden Double Standard Card it always applies. They don't leave home without it!
So when are the dems going to denounce all Communist and Socialist support? Since we're denouncing evil, ya know?
I typed exactly what I meant.
So Trump is seeking the support of the Klan and Neo-Nazi's huh? You're delusional.
And as soon as BLM or Antifa round up a few million people and gas them in camps, I'd say your comparison is accurate.
I'll be waiting.
Ah, the ol' No True Scotsman argument.
So when are the dems going to denounce all Communist and Socialist support? Since we're denouncing evil, ya know?
Read a couple posts up. The holders of the Golden Double Standard Card don't have to. Nor do they have to listen to the insanity of what they assert. And again nor do they have to actually READ what others have said. Their assumptions uber alles (oops, I used German words, mea culpa).
CrazyFingers
08-14-17, 13:17
Yeah, the good old double standard. I should've known. Liberal much?
Double standard? One ideology murdered millions of people, one didn't.
I'm not sure how you've equated "liberal" with "doesn't support Nazis", but I've been confused (to say the least) by quite a few people's posts in this thread so far.
CrazyFingers
08-14-17, 13:18
So Trump is seeking the support of the Klan and Neo-Nazi's huh? You're delusional.
I'd say he's got it pretty locked up these days.
I'd say he's got it pretty locked up these days.
Yeah, he's seeking the Nazi/KKK support. :rolleyes:
I stand by my previous assertion.
Double standard? One ideology murdered millions of people, one didn't.
I'm not sure how you've equated "liberal" with "doesn't support Nazis", but I've been confused (to say the least) by quite a few people's posts in this thread so far.
Antifa are communists. If I need to remind you of those big-time murdering commie names I mentioned above then perhaps you should re-learn your revisionist history.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 13:24
I was always taught before I could judge others I should make sure I cleaned my own room first. Maybe before worrying about the democrats condemning BLM and Antifa the republicans should purge their party of racists, neo nazi's, and the like. The right's room is a mess right now and people in here defending it are just a further indication of how their room is going to stay.
You'd have to be dim to think Trump supports or embraces the support of any of these hate groups. The fact he didn't pander to his opposition has essentially poured gas on heads that were already on fire.
Just to add, I don't like Trump. I don't like racists either. Unfortunately we have to deal with both.
RetroRevolver77
08-14-17, 13:27
A Nazi killed a Commie.
Meh.
I'll have a Coke.
7n6
I was always taught before I could judge others I should make sure I cleaned my own room first. Maybe before worrying about the democrats condemning BLM and Antifa the republicans should purge their party of racists, neo nazi's, and the like. The right's room is a mess right now and people in here defending it are just a further indication of how their room is going to stay.
Who.
Is.
Defending.
It?
You know damn well the Democrats will NEVER disavow BLM or Antifa. Hell would freeze over first. Yet somehow it is incumbent upon Republicans to disavow fringe hate groups it never asked to support them in the first place? I could see if they actively courted the KKK/Nazi vote but they didn't. No one in their right mind wants their support. Yet the Dems love them some BLM/Antifa voters.
You'd have to be dim to think Trump supports or embraces the support of any of these hate groups. The fact he didn't pander to his opposition has essentially poured gas on heads that were already on fire.
Just to add, I don't like Trump. I don't like racists either. Unfortunately we have to deal with both.
Oh no no no, haven't you read their posts? Trump revels and basks in the warmth of fringe hate groups like the Klan and Neo-Nazi's. Why, that's who got him elected! :jester:
A Nazi killed a Commie.
Meh.
I'll have a Coke.
7n6
Kind of like asking who you rooted for at Stalingrad. Hmmm.....let's see.....we have Nazi's fighting commies. Is there a choice "C" of let them kill the crap out of each other?
It wasn't a question of condemning Nazis, that's a pretty easy task.
It was a question of condemning those responsible for the violence at the rally/protest.
Laying the blame where it belongs? Start with the Governor and work your way down the line.
I get that you don't like the Governor. But your kind of sounding like 'let's sue the manufacturer' here. Or someone screaming 'they entrapped those poor terrorists.'
It seems to me that if the Governor had told the NG and LE, 'Hey lay fully loaded weapons down in a neat line, then leave' I'm thinking the major blame still lays with the people who pick up those weapons and shoot them.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 13:40
Who.
Is.
Defending.
It?
You know damn well the Democrats will NEVER disavow BLM or Antifa. Hell would freeze over first. Yet somehow it is incumbent upon Republicans to disavow fringe hate groups it never asked to support them in the first place? I could see if they actively courted the KKK/Nazi vote but they didn't. No one in their right mind wants their support. Yet the Dems love them some BLM/Antifa voters.
A lack of action is still an action. The fact that Trump had to wait until everyone was blasting him for not condemning them is very telling. No one else in his administration seemed to have a problem with it.
No one here is defending it except I have a feeling a few current members and certainly some former ones privately do.
A lack of action is still an action. The fact that Trump had to wait until everyone was blasting him for not condemning them is very telling. No one else in his administration seemed to have a problem with it.
No one here is defending it except I have a feeling a few current members and certainly some former ones privately do.
That is why they are former members, as they should be. No need for 88's here.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 13:53
That is why they are former members, as they should be. No need for 88's here.
Right, and my condemning Trump's response and the response of a number of people on the right I'm not exclusively talking about this group. There are plenty of people on the right that have no problem with this sort of behavior and that's disgusting.
People I tend to vote similarly to don't support BLM and Antifa so it's not like I feel the same type of repulsion. I am not associated with those groups but I do get associated with more conservative leaning groups and I don't want to have any damn comparison with the likes of the utter trash that was in Charlottesville.
A lack of action is still an action. The fact that Trump had to wait until everyone was blasting him for not condemning them is very telling. No one else in his administration seemed to have a problem with it.
No one here is defending it except I have a feeling a few current members and certainly some former ones privately do.
But he DID condemn them. He just didn't call them by name. It was implied in his statement.
"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides."
I didn't have a problem with it, or the rest of his remarks; but since it got so many peoples' panties in a wad, good for him for coming out today for further clarification.
Now who will be surprised when it will be said (and it will...) that it wasn't soon enough/strong enough/etc.
Coal Dragger
08-14-17, 14:06
Not sure if it has been noticed but Trump just condemned those assholes by name. So not sure if that will satisfy the anti-Trumpers last like skywalkrNCSU, but there it is.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-14-17, 14:06
A lack of action is still an action. The fact that Trump had to wait until everyone was blasting him for not condemning them is very telling. No one else in his administration seemed to have a problem with it.
No one here is defending it except I have a feeling a few current members and certainly some former ones privately do.
And look now, he comes out with a new forceful statement and he still faces all kinds of attacks from the left and the MSM. When will you realize that what ever he does he gets attacked by the MSM. Trying to make them placated is a fool's errand.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 14:08
And look now, he comes out with a new forceful statement and he still faces all kinds of attacks from the left and the MSM. When will you realize that what ever he does he gets attacked by the MSM. Trying to make them placated is a fool's errand.
Yeah god forbid me wanting my president to come out strongly with an anti-nazi stance
Yeah god forbid me wanting my president to come out strongly with an anti-nazi stance
He did. This is the actual quote he made today in a message that was unscheduled (I posted it earlier):
“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”
There you have it. Specific and by name.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 14:21
He did. This is the actual quote he made today in a message that was unscheduled (I posted it earlier):
“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”
There you have it. Specific and by name.
Well aware, I was discussing his initial statement as this conversation began before those remarks were made
Averageman
08-14-17, 14:28
Well aware, I was discussing his initial statement as this conversation began before those remarks were made
It's not like he said
"If I had a son"
And jumped waist deep in to something he didn't have a clue about.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-14-17, 14:30
Well aware, I was discussing his initial statement as this conversation began before those remarks were made
So he should have made a definitive statement about the situation before he knew all the facts? Like, our last president that seemed to like to do that?
Averageman
08-14-17, 14:38
So he should have made a definitive statement about the situation before he knew all the facts? Like, our last president that seemed to like to do that?
Ha! Ha!
Great minds....
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 14:41
So he should have made a definitive statement about the situation before he knew all the facts? Like, our last president that seemed to like to do that?
Funny how you guys have selective memories. I tend to remember a time when Obama was heavily criticized from the right for not coming out immediately and saying something was terrorist related.
Also, I don't think there is ever a time you should be worried about jumping to the conclusion that neo nazis are bad.
Funny how you guys have selective memories. I tend to remember a time when Obama was heavily criticized from the right for not coming out immediately and saying something was terrorist related.
Also, I don't think there is ever a time you should be worried about jumping to the conclusion that neo nazis are bad.
Pretty sure they were referring to him wanting to see who actually ran the people over. If you recall that wasn't immediately clear.
Averageman
08-14-17, 14:55
The problem wasn't that he didn't come out and call things terrorism or radical islam. It is that he never did and never would call it radical islam or terrorism.
He was an appologist for terrorists and radical islam.
The difference being today Trump was very clear in his condemnation, Obama, well, never.
skywalkrNCSU
08-14-17, 14:56
Pretty sure they were referring to him wanting to see who actually ran the people over. If you recall that wasn't immediately clear.
It was very clear when Trump made his remarks
Whiskey_Bravo
08-14-17, 14:58
Funny how you guys have selective memories. I tend to remember a time when Obama was heavily criticized from the right for not coming out immediately and saying something was terrorist related.
Also, I don't think there is ever a time you should be worried about jumping to the conclusion that neo nazis are bad.
Nazis are bad, pretty sure we all agree on that. But knowing who was actually involved before making a statement is usually a good idea.
If you think Obama's record on how and when he called a terrorist attack a terrorist attack(and when he didn't call it a terrorist attack) was a good one I don't know what to say.
Yeah god forbid me wanting my president to come out strongly with an anti-nazi stance
Do you need a list of all hate groups and do need your President to call them by name each time something like this happens.
"I just got off the phone with the gov. of VA, Terry McCauliffe and we agreed that the hate must stop and must stop now"
So he denounces the many many hate groups and says.
"No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security..."
Think about that.... now look at the videos of C'Ville. Take a photo of pretty much any of the scenes. Now take a picture of say a baseball game, people in a park, whatever. Hand them both to a child. Ask them which picture they think the people scared and unsafe and which they think are happy and safe.
This is not rocket science.
Here, look at what the "peaceful" people are saying in their own words.
"Before the attack occurred, we chased the Nazis out of their park, removing their platform."
"We are willing to be militant, but our goal is to protect the marginalized and ourselves."
"Militancy is essential for the struggle."
"Once the fascists started leaving, the cops declared it an “unlawful assembly” and pushed the students out. They sided with the assaulters. Then the brown shirts killed one of us. The blue shirts have killed many more. Fascists are not just marching in the streets. They hold the levers of power. It is our responsibility to protect ourselves. Who else will?"
https://itsgoingdown.org/frontlines-charlottesville-statement-dc-antifascists/
mil·i·tant
[ˈmiləd(ə)nt]
ADJECTIVE
combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods:
"a militant nationalist"
synonyms: aggressive · violent · belligerent · bellicose · vigorous · forceful · active · [more]
NOUN
a militant person.
synonyms: activist · extremist · radical · young turk · zealot
Most all of those people are radicals. Some likely paid, others just plain idiots, others nothing better to do.
The fact Trump, or anyone else doesn't single out your pet peeve group of idiots is of no concern to anyone nor does it mean by in-action that anyone supports that particular group of fools.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-14-17, 15:06
Trump is blasted for making comments off the cuff and he is blasted for taking time to make a complete statement.
Double standard? One ideology murdered millions of people, one didn't.
Speaking of confused. I'm confused by your statement here. Are you actually saying that socialist and communist ideology hadn't murderers millions of people? Hitler had around a decade of power and killed what 6-10 million folks in his tenure. Hell thats JV material next to communism. Stalin killed close to 20MM all by his lonesome. Add in Mao, Pol Pot and the rest of the low hanging communist ****s around the planet and we are getting into hundreds of millions executed, tortured, raped and pillaged. That doesn't even take into account the billion + that were enslaved into a life of shit. Some of us on this board were there. Had family members raped, and beaten. Had friends disappear into the night. So please, pretty please tell me how one ideology hasn't murdered millions. Tell me cause I'm all ****ing ears.
Prejudices of all sorts, be they based on race, religion, sex ... are ****ing retarded. It doesn't matter which direction they come from. Whether the right, left, center... is irrelevant. It's retarded. Simple as that. Not sure why one needs to be specific when denouncing stupid.
It was very clear when Trump made his remarks
Not on the timeline I was following. He was pressured to make a statement quickly and that's what he put out. Despite what you want to believe "....from many sides" covered that base. Actually a good choice of words. The word "any" could have been substituted for "many" but that's semantics.
I tend to remember a time when Obama was heavily criticized from the right for not coming out immediately and saying something was terrorist related.
That's because when the news is reporting the bad guy as saying "Allahu Akbar" and has just killed a bunch of people in a highly typical ISIS style fashion... you know, it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination.
On the other hand Obama also condemned the PD at least once before he had facts.
Has anyone suggested Neo-NAZIs are not bad? Pretty sure everyone shares your sentiment.
Averageman
08-14-17, 15:16
I get that you don't like the Governor. But your kind of sounding like 'let's sue the manufacturer' here. Or someone screaming 'they entrapped those poor terrorists.'
It seems to me that if the Governor had told the NG and LE, 'Hey lay fully loaded weapons down in a neat line, then leave' I'm thinking the major blame still lays with the people who pick up those weapons and shoot them.
No, the Governor saw what happened Friday night. A torch lit procession marching to the statue of Lee singing "Blood and Soil".
Any Leader with a thimble full of common sense would have called the Judge and the ACLU and had the permit pulled. There was already a violent meley with tiki torches being thrown, that was enough for it to be stopped.
Now anti gun Macaullife is claiming that the State Police were out gunned by the Militia.
Not a shot fired, no National Guard separating opposing groups, no cancellation, but some Yahoo milita group that never fired a shot intimidated the Mayor, the Governor and the State and local Police in to fear and inaction?
RetroRevolver77
08-14-17, 16:13
I don't care which extremist group attacked another extremist group.
I also don't understand what the argument is about.
7n6
Amazing how taking the position that Trump should denounce neo nazis gets met with resistance around here
I don't think it's that as much as people are SICK of the double standard. Like when pres O said (paraphrasing) "you can't blame an entire movement for the actions of one crazy individual", in response to the Dallas police shooting by the Blm radical. Or the Bernie-bro that shot up a softball team...that was all on the shooter, not the rhetoric coming from the left.
SICK OF IT.
These people suck. ALL of them.
JMO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We interrupt this thread to remind everyone that you're arguing on the internet. Wins and losses here are rather inconsequential, but site rules and climate are not. If you find yourself getting heated up on the topic, take a break and chill. Best hope for the thread is to return to the topic of events in Charlottesville, and those things immediately related thereto. Thanks.
I don't care if they are nazis or antifa. I respect their Right to free speech but not to riot. Why this obsessive focus on one of the group's idolegy and not the actions of some on both sides?
Putting up with speech I don't like is actually the sound of Freedom.
Steyr, when you (not you personally) carry the Golden Double Standard Card it always applies. They don't leave home without it!
The lack of critical thought is just baffling to me. The only American nazis that were ever a threat were the German American Bund and the related nazi party prior to WWII. They were actively trying to lay the groundwork for a facist government.
Since then we've had George Lincoln Rockwell who refounded the American Nazi Party in 1960. He was murdered by a member of his own organization and at the height of power had fewer followers and less actual influence than Malcom X. He was basically fodder for ridicule in the news when it was a slow news day and that's about it.
Then we had Matthias Koehl. Anyone ever even heard of him? Well he was the leaser of the ANP from 1967 until 2014. He and the ANP had less influence than the Green Party in this country. Groups like Aryan Nations and WAR presented a far more credible threat than the official Nazi Party of America. Not sure those groups actually qualify as nazis or not, they were mostly about white supremacy than National Socialism. Beyond nazi based tattoos, I don't think most of them even understood National Socialism as it pertains to government and mostly used the shock value of nazi symbolism to express their racial hatred of everyone else.
Does anyone even know who the current leader of the ANP is without looking it up? When most people think of neo nazis they aren't even talking about the ANP because nobody knows who is even running it anymore. They usually think of prison groups like the AB and if they had any real power and influence they wouldn't be a group of people who spend most of their time incarcerated. They have less organization outside of prison than most motorcycle gangs.
William Pierce is dead and the National Alliance in 2012 had fewer than 100 members. WAR and the AN were probably the most dangerous of the white supremacist groups who associate themselves with neo nazis and the KKK. But the days of high profile crime and assassination are long gone. Key members of The Order are either dead or serving life sentences with no parole. They have all had a negligible influence on anything for the last couple decades, like the official KKK they are dead as an organized movement.
I only wish I could say the same for other race based hate groups like the Black Nation of Islam. Not that they are currently the biggest threat to our nation either, they are almost completely insignificant in terms of power, political influence or genuine threat to society. But they probably have more power and influence than all of those groups who calls themselves "nazis" combined.
I don't care if they are nazis or antifa. I respect their Right to free speech but not to riot. Why this obsessive focus on one of the group's idolegy and not the actions of some on both sides?
Putting up with speech I don't like is actually the sound of Freedom.
And then there is that.
I don't care which groups of retards is standing in the local park shouting hatred. I do my civic duty and ignore them. But if anyone starts throwing rocks and bottles, that is not free speech. If the NRA had "rallies" that resulted in destruction of property by members, I'd probably resign my membership.
Thanks for the reply, I don't think you understand what I meant by 'harm to activity ratio.'
According to the chart you supplied law enforcement aviation accounts for 3.1% of all crashes. That is, in my view very disproportionate considering the percentage of flight hours logged by LE aircraft compared to other usage.
Stated another way - do you think that LE flies 3.1% of the total flight hours? Break it down by accident by flight hour and you might feel as I do.
Just my thoughts. Same with police motorcycles. Compare their accident rate per mile ridden with the general motorcycling public. No thanks, if I took over an agency with motors the first thing I'd do is get rid of them as daily patrol or traffic units. BTW right now I have three personal motorcycles sitting in the garage. I ride daily some weeks, most weeks 3 or 4 days a week.
Just the way I think on the topic.
PM Sent
Local raido guy just interviewed the secretary of public affairs for VA State Police. He asked him a very clear and repeated manner... why, when it was obvious that the Antifa crowd was -clearly- breaking the law, were there no arrests. Why was it that the known protesters with no permits were not arrested. It was known up front, why no arrests?
Answer: It's a new day. we need to look at things, get training, etc. IOW, a great big -non answer-. A very lengthy repeated non-answer.
Denys that police were told to stand down. Said McCauliffe was fully prepared and National Guard was at the ready.
====
Press conference from C'Ville Chief. Sir we have heard of Officers that were told to not make arrests. Chief: No, and I want to know that Officers name.
====
Other questions being asked... You have the C'Ville police, State Police, and who knows what else. Guys show up with AR15 slung, spears, battle gear.... and not one Officer said .... Whoa, hang on there good buddy, you need to check that action at the gate. We're not playing that game today.
Not one. I have never ever in my entire life seen a cop that would know they were going to a high voltage permitted event and then just let people stroll around unquestioned.
Something just doesn't add up. Court documents indicate political pressure from the get go. Police act in a manner that is typically against their normal methods.
Supposedly the Alt Right was lead into the back of the park but then kept circling around to 'run the gauntlet'. Why? Why were they allowed to do that? Was the NG not activated? Why have them ready and not use them?
C'Ville is 80% Dem and this is really looking like a three legged stool of politics. Alt Right, Antifa, VA Dems.
Alt Right = We will troll the Liberals
Antifa = We will create a mountain from a mole hill and create news
VA Dems = If we play our cards right we could get some ammunition for the next POTUS election to use against Trump.
Police = We're screwed again, everybody ready? Let's roll.
I swear the more I read, see and hear about all this, the more screwed up it is.
Oh btw, the State Police spokesman, and I can't remember just how he put it.. but something to the effect of. The Nat.Gd. was readied for the first time for a civil event about to happen. He then went on and I don't know if he meant ever, or in a long period of time or what. But the fact remains. The NG was ready before the fact and Terry McCauliffe let all this play out as it did. Meaning it could have come off much differently had he activated them. There could have been a non-violent gathering except for McCauliffe.
Another interesting fact. The chopper pilot that died was the same pilot that carries McCauliffe around. Rather carried him around. So McCauliffe can't be found to be lacking in leadership and judgement here. If so it will mean he has his personal protector's blood on his hands. He is heavy on record that their deaths were a result of the Alt Right.
The only thing I've heard additionally on the chopper is that there was no distress message.
I don't think it's that as much as people are SICK of the double standard. Like when pres O said (paraphrasing) "you can't blame an entire movement for the actions of one crazy individual", in response to the Dallas police shooting by the Blm radical. Or the Bernie-bro that shot up a softball team...that was all on the shooter, not the rhetoric coming from the left.
SICK OF IT.
These people suck. ALL of them.
JMO
Very well stated. Thank you.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-14-17, 19:15
Trump should have a listening tour with town halls and small meetings in people's livingrooms so that he can hear the pain and angst and fears of these people; and then just do whatever the hell he wants just like all the other pols do after the PR silliness.
This is straight from the Katrina blame playbook. The city, county and state people all screw up, but it is POTUS' fault.
We complain about traditional pols and when we get someone in that doesn't behave like a traditional pol people lose their minds.
How about Trumps drops the federal hammer on the next BLM riot and see how they like hands on action.
Averageman
08-14-17, 19:53
Exactly out of the Katrina Playbook.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/charlottesville-uva-white-nationalist-protest-unite-the-right
Charlottesville, Virginia’s plan to remove or relocate statues commemorating the Confederacy has been met with a storm of opposition from far-right white nationalists, who gathered on the University of Virginia’s campus Friday night to protest the removal of the statues as well as immigration reform. They wielded lit tiki torches and chanted slogans like “You will not replace us” and “blood and soil,” a racist ethnic nationalist expression popularized by the Nazis during World War II. The protest disbanded after law enforcement arrived and ruled it unlawful assembly, but the city is still on edge preparing for the larger protest downtown Saturday afternoon.
Charlottesville mayor Mike Signer condemned the rally on his Facebook page Friday night, where he wrote: “Everyone has a right under the First Amendment to express their opinion peaceably, so here's mine: not only as the Mayor of Charlottesville, but as a UVA faculty member and alumnus, I am beyond disgusted by this unsanctioned and despicable display of visual intimidation on a college campus.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/us/white-nationalists-rally-charlottesville-virginia.html
Late Friday night, several hundred torch-bearing men and women marched on the main quadrangle of the University of Virginia’s grounds, shouting, “You will not replace us,” and “Jew will not replace us.” They walked around the Rotunda, the university’s signature building, and to a statue of Thomas Jefferson, where a group of counterprotesters were gathered, and a brawl ensued. At least one person was led away in handcuffs by the police.
The University of Virginia Medical Center has canceled all elective surgery — standard procedure in preparation for events that could lead to mass casualties. Around town, some businesses plan to close.
On Thursday, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit on behalf of Mr. Kessler, seeking to keep the demonstration at Emancipation Park.
On Friday, a judge ruled in Mr. Kessler’s favor.
But if the city seems seized with anxiety, there is also a sense of determination.
“Charlottesville is mobilizing,” said Mimi Arbeit, a community activist who is helping to organize counterdemonstrations. “We cannot allow the rise of white supremacy. Ignoring the Klan in the 1920s is precisely what allowed them to terrorize and murder black people in Charlottesville. We cannot allow that history to be repeated.”
https://governor.virginia.gov/newsroom/newsarticle?articleId=20924
“At 11:28 a.m., the Virginia State Police contacted me to request a state of emergency and I immediately authorized the declaration. We have maintained close contact with the Virginia State Police, the Virginia National Guard, the Virginia Department of Emergency Management, and other state and local officials on the ground in Charlottesville, and I agree that the situation in Charlottesville warrants an emergency declaration by me, in order to aid City and County law enforcement in their efforts to restore public safety and order in the City of Charlottesville and the surrounding area. In the days and weeks leading up to this event, my Administration engaged in extensive planning and preparation to ensure that the rally in Charlottesville could be held in a safe and lawful environment. These preparations included the deployment of a large number of state troopers, as well as the Virginia National Guard for support.
Clearly this was going to be an obvious confrontation. The Governor and Mayor did nothing after Friday nights events to stop Saturdays on coming riot.
McCauliffe who has a questionable history of very sketchy political moves owns this, he could have stopped it in its tracks Friday night. He could have taken a more agressive stance with his Law Enforcement and National Guard Troops that were on station, instead he fiddled while it burned.
I can live with the double standard. That's just how they are. If the Governor and Mayor have played games with people's lives and used the double standard as a last ditch cover.... that's got to be a criminal act of some sort. Not sure what it would be called but that's just wrong. If they told the Police to 'go easy' and also held back the NatGd.to watch it play out.
I don't know how these stories get out but when you have a situation that suggests it could have happened and days before it happened you have that question being addressed on the record it looks beyond suspicious to me.
The Rutherford Institute has commented.... and among other things....
According to news reports, more than 1000 armed police, riot teams plus the National Guard were deployed to maintain law and order at the August 12 demonstration. As indicated by its preparations for the July 8 KKK rally, the City and law enforcement were completely cognizant of the need to establish barriers keeping the two sparring sides apart and to ensure that all three permit holders’ rights to access their respective spaces were respected.
http://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/on_the_front_lines/statement_from_the_rutherford_institute_regarding_violence_at_the_august_12
As a Cold War participant, it utterly confounds me that everyone is focusing on the right and giving the communists a free pass. AntiFa is straight up 100% marxism. These are very dangerous people and make no mistake, they want to control everyone who doesn't agree with them. These are baby Stalinists and left to their own devices, will become a deadly threat to our nation. Until all this SJW bs started a decade or so ago, the kkk and skinheads couldn't muster enough people to be much more than a local gang. Now look at them. If someone had had the balls to shut these leftist anarchists down a decade ago, the alt-right wouldn't have an enemy to fight. It really is that simple.
BTW, when Roof did the black church massacre, Obama didn't denounce the kkk, neo-nazis or any alt-right group by name. Yeah, hypocrisy is the name of the game. Some just play it better than others. :(
Grand58742
08-14-17, 22:06
Related. And obviously when the laws prevent you from doing something, ignore them and destroy public property.
http://wncn.com/2017/08/14/protesters-rally-against-confederate-monument-in-front-old-durham-county-courthouse/
A crowd of protesters gathered outside the old Durham County courthouse on Main Street Monday evening in opposition to a Confederate monument in front of the government building.
Around 7:10 p.m. a woman using a ladder climbed the statue of a Confederate soldier and attached a rope around the statue.
Moments later, the crowd pulled on the rope and the statue fell. One man quickly ran up and spat on the statue and several others began kicking it.
Durham police later said they monitored the protests to make sure they were “safe” but did not interfere with the statue toppling because it happened on county property.
lol at the police monitoring the "safety" portion of a bunch of thugs vandalizing public property.
Grand58742
08-14-17, 22:08
Love the chanting going on.
https://twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897235297485901825
These are very dangerous people and make no mistake, they want to control everyone who doesn't agree with them. These are baby Stalinists and left to their own devices, will become a deadly threat to our nation.
RE: Duram
“Today we got a small taste of justice,” protester Jose Ramos said after the statue was down.
"The state is at war with me and with people like me," Wideman said. "Seeing the events this weekend made me feel like this is really a war."
Young Wideman is in for a rude awakening when he finds out what war really is.
ETA: Well gang it's official. Jimmy Fallon just called out the president and aligned in support with the protesters in C'Ville. Opened his show with it. He was sort of Switzerland of the Liberal late night shows. He made jokes, and basically his political guests said what they thought with a wink and a nod. He just said Tump took two days to denounce racism.
I guess he forgot that Trump denounced all those factions repeatedly during the election campaigns.
He certainly reads his tweets for the jokes... I guess not for this though...evidently doesn't listen to press conferences either.
We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!
10:19 AM - 12 Aug 2017
Oh well... Fallon was the last late night comedy show that was actually somewhat fun to watch. Really depressing to see how blind some of these people are. Go ahead Jimmy, feed the beast.
So are we into the era of politicized law enforcement, where the only constant is that they do the bidding of their masters, no matter how corrupt?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? ("Who will guard the guardians?")
Funny how you guys have selective memories. I tend to remember a time when Obama was heavily criticized from the right for not coming out immediately and saying something was terrorist related.
Because it was obviously terrorist related. Was this guy shouting slurs as he was driving into the crowd?
Personally I am sick of this gotcha politics where the POTUS has to condemn certain crimes [but not others] in some media defined time frame, or somehow that means he supports them or something.
MountainRaven
08-14-17, 23:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RHBiRnWwRs
wont watch any video that says we need to talk about it :) hahahahahaha
NO we need action against any group that ever starts violence at any meeting rally event anything and harsh penalties for doing such violence especially when it turns into a riot
everyone even POS like KKK or antifa or BLM should be allowed to assemble and spew their racist hatred
IMHO never with a mask though since more on the left wear masks these days ! so they can be identified
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-17, 01:07
Love the chanting going on.
https://twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897235297485901825
Like a third world country.
That's some pretty loud free speech, ropes and all. Pretty much, free speech doesn't include ropes.
Next up for erasure is the southern state founders, and after that the northern founders since they stood by and codified slavery. That and the complete utter lack of understanding about the 3/5 compromise.
Moose-Knuckle
08-15-17, 01:13
Oh that must be why all the neo nazi's had MAGA hats on.
:blink:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4433/36183869010_92139ccf32_z.jpg
I read that one of the organizers was Jason Kessler, who until November 2016 was a muckitymuck with the Occupy movement and was a big-time Obama supporter. In January 2017 he started "Unity & Security for America," touted as a "white supremacist group," ostensibly to attempt to tie Trump, et al., to that movement.
I am attempting to verify the veracity of this information.
I would personally be interested in any links to this.
I have little doubt that when all the dust settles these "alt right" "White nationalists" are funded by the same Soros groups as Occupy and BLM.
Double standard? One ideology murdered millions of people, one didn't.
Um, yeah about that . . .
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4341/36184065390_97012e0afb_b.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-17, 01:23
Not to be funny, but that guy looks blind.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-_TxMLFSGSlw/Tk3C4ti3thI/AAAAAAAAAUw/KFW0JHCxLlA/vlcsnap-42006_thumb%25255B1%25255D.png?imgmax=800
And Tiki torches? Seriously? Lua at Earl's afterwards?
I still don't get nationalists that are Americans, that idolize a German.
It is always easier to blame some outside influence than to admit our own side has its own internal issues.
Soros has become some catch all for some people to blame. But in the end claiming he is behind all of this is about on the same level of disconnect as Pizzagate.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-15-17, 07:23
Unfortunately both of the radical ends of the spectrum showed up, but honestly anyone who turned up at a white supremacist rally and didn't expect it to be a complete shit show, especially in this day and age, is certifiably retarded.
I don't think that the statue should be torn down and I also don't think that this was a very good representation of why.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The issue is not a left/right issue. It's an authoritarian issue. Authoritarians are evil, no matter which way they make the balance tip.
Related. And obviously when the laws prevent you from doing something, ignore them and destroy public property.
http://wncn.com/2017/08/14/protesters-rally-against-confederate-monument-in-front-old-durham-county-courthouse/
lol at the police monitoring the "safety" portion of a bunch of thugs vandalizing public property.
See my location. This is redonkulous. I think every Antifa/whatever movement was there because...well, 99% of people in Durham just don't care.
As for our local 5-0, because it was at the old courthouse, it was deemed county property and a county issue.
"The state is at war with me...." News flash: The "state" and our town don't give two shits about you one way or the other.
Richmond...
Reporter attacked, hospitalized. Told to stop filming then beaten.
Terry McCauliffe.... crickets
All this reported by an actual MSM reporter from Richmond.
https://twitter.com/lfrenchnews
So Antifa lynched a Confederate soldier in effigy then stomped and spit on him. So every Confederate soldier was a racist. I'm sure that would have gone over real well had the tables been turned.
Fort McHenry POWs
Fort McHenry
According to The Valley of the Shadow, a Civil War digital archive project, the Staunton Spectator (Staunton, Virgina) newspaper on Tuesday, October 13, 1863 reported: "The Petersburg Express is informed by Lieut. Daniels, who has just arrived at Petersburg from Fort Norfolk, that some 35 or 40 Southern negroes, captured at Gettysburg, are confined at Fort McHenry. He says that they profess an undying attachment to the South. Several times Gen. Schenck has offered to release them from the Fort, if they would take the oath of allegiance to the Federal Government and join the Lincoln army. They had peremptorily refused in every instance, and claim that they should be restored to their masters and homes in the South. They say they would prefer death to liberty on the terms proposed by Schneck."1
That sounds kinda like McCain.. .wasn't he offered freedom and refused it.
These idiots need to be put on the government food program. 3 meals a day and bars.
Where I draw a personal line is when (not if) they want to alter actual battlefield stuff, like Gettysburg or wherever. It's one thing to lobby to have Confederate memorials removed from a town if the people of that town want it (and non-residents of that town should STFU about it) but the battlefield stuff is actual war history. You know, like "The 16th Georgia Regiment stood their ground on this ridge against repeated Union assaults". Stuff like that or this unit was here, that unit was there, led by Gen. XXX, etc.
RetroRevolver77
08-15-17, 09:50
Unfortunately both of the radical ends of the spectrum showed up, but honestly anyone who turned up at a white supremacist rally and didn't expect it to be a complete shit show, especially in this day and age, is certifiably retarded.
I don't think that the statue should be torn down and I also don't think that this was a very good representation of why.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They are not opposite ends of the spectrum. The KKK and Nazi's are Leftists, Socialists. They only supported Trump because he isn't an extension of Obama, which Hillary would have been. The KKK is a Democrat Party institution. The Nazi's are Socialists. The Communists are even further left of those two. How any of this has to do with Trump or his followers being forced to denounce anything is beyond me. Which is exactly what the leftist shills are attempting to do- by somehow tying these groups with Republican Conservative Patriots doesn't make sense. However their objective is to paint all Trump followers as racists. First by saying, oh look Trump didn't denounce these leftist radical groups wearing his hats fast enough- Trump is a Nazi. Ridiculous. The man has Jewish family members and hires people of all backgrounds to work for him. Don't get baited by the Leftist trolls.
7n6
They are not opposite ends of the spectrum. The KKK and Nazi's are Leftists, Socialists. They only supported Trump because he isn't an extension of Obama, which Hillary would have been. The KKK is a Democrat Party institution. The Nazi's are Socialists. The Communists are even further left of those two. How any of this has to do with Trump or his followers being forced to denounce anything is beyond me. Which is exactly what the leftist shills are attempting to do- by somehow tying these groups with Republican Conservative Patriots doesn't make sense. However their objective is to paint all Trump followers as racists. First by saying, oh look Trump didn't denounce these leftist radical groups wearing his hats fast enough- Trump is a Nazi. Ridiculous. The man has Jewish family members and hires people of all backgrounds to work for him. Don't get baited by the Leftist trolls.
7n6
Do you even think about the things you type?
The KKK has long been a conservative based organisation. Was it Founded by democrats? Yep. But what most people like to ignore when they point that out is that the parties have shifted over the years. These Neo Nazis and KKK scrum identify with the right. That is their ideology, they have take it to the extreme yes. But they are still on the right.
Do you even think about the things you type?
The KKK has long been a conservative based organisation. Was it Founded by democrats? Yep. But what most people like to ignore when they point that out is that the parties have shifted over the years. These Neo Nazis and KKK scrum identify with the right. That is their ideology, they have take it to the extreme yes. But they are still on the right.
What are the right leaning principals that they (KKK) agree to? Honest question.
RetroRevolver77
08-15-17, 10:23
Do you even think about the things you type?
The KKK has long been a conservative based organisation. Was it Founded by democrats? Yep. But what most people like to ignore when they point that out is that the parties have shifted over the years. These Neo Nazis and KKK scrum identify with the right. That is their ideology, they have take it to the extreme yes. But they are still on the right.
The Parties never shifted places. The Republicans were the ones who not only freed the slaves but also led the Civil Rights marches including Republican Dr. King. The Nazi's which stands for National SOCIALISTS are only slightly right of the Communists, both of which are far Left in their ideology. Neither the KKK nor Nazi's are welcomed by their former hosts because they are not politically correct. So they now just vote to whoever might represent some of their ideology but not all. It wasn't that long ago that they were supporting the Clintons- so go figure. Even not so long ago that the Clintons themselves accepted donations on behalf of the Klu Klux Klan as well as embracing their fellow Democrat and Grand Wizard of the Klan, Robert Byrd.
The Party of Civil Rights
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/300432/party-civil-rights-kevin-d-williamson
"This magazine has long specialized in debunking pernicious political myths, and Jonah Goldberg has now provided an illuminating catalogue of tyrannical clichés, but worse than the myth and the cliché is the outright lie, the utter fabrication with malice aforethought, and my nominee for the worst of them is the popular but indefensible belief that the two major U.S. political parties somehow “switched places” vis-à-vis protecting the rights of black Americans, a development believed to be roughly concurrent with the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the rise of Richard Nixon."
7n6
Maybe instead of the "right".........you know secret nazis and klansmen......some folks might want to use the term constitutional conservative, or something like that. Just because someone agrees with you that guns are cool, doesn't mean he's your worldview buddy.
Informative, 7n6. The first paragraphs were hard to read, but I'm glad I struggled through.
Do you take the print edition of National Review? I've been thinking about it, based on the fact that Media Bias/Fact Check rated it: Factual Reporting: HIGH
RetroRevolver77
08-15-17, 11:35
Informative, 7n6. The first paragraphs were hard to read, but I'm glad I struggled through.
Do you take the print edition of National Review? I've been thinking about it, based on the fact that Media Bias/Fact Check rated it: Factual Reporting: HIGH
I found the article after doing a search.
Here is a good video explaining political spectrum debunking all the Left's myths;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdS6fyUIklI
Averageman
08-15-17, 11:47
Think of the Nazis and the KKK as you would "Typhoid Mary". The people who want to make sure you do not succeed and become associated with the evil infection make sure She shows up to your party to "brand"you.
David Duke has been doing this to Conservatives for years.
Think of the Nazis and the KKK as you would "Typhoid Mary". The people who want to make sure you do not succeed and become associated with the evil infection make sure She shows up to your party to "brand"you.
David Duke has been doing this to Conservatives for years.
Wait a minute, wasn't there something during the campaign about Duke *supposedly* supporting Trump and then Trump came out and said "I don't want his support"? I thought I recall something to that effect taking place.
Averageman
08-15-17, 12:17
Wait a minute, wasn't there something during the campaign about Duke *supposedly* supporting Trump and then Trump came out and said "I don't want his support"? I thought I recall something to that effect taking place.
Duke has done this more than once and not just in Charlotte or during Trump's run for POTUS.
I'm not sure how easy it will be to find all the details anymore, but his role as "spoiler" I believe goes against far back as the 80's.
Duke has done this more than once and not just in Charlotte or during Trump's run for POTUS.
I'm not sure how easy it will be to find all the details anymore, but his role as "spoiler" I believe goes against far back as the 80's.
I'm gonna go Google the campaign thing as it'll be ammunition against anyone saying Trump needs to specifically disconnect from the Klan-types.
RetroRevolver77
08-15-17, 12:24
The Klan officially endorsed Hillary.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/26/klan-leader-claims-kkk-has-given-20k-clinton-campa/
There is also a Video on the Charlottesville Riot from Vice News, that has the leaders of the White Supremacy organization chastising Trump for having Jewish family members. Something is not right here, they are definitely attempting to ruin the Conservative image.
7n6
Okay, for the Trump naysayers; I'd say that Trump DID disavow Duke and his ilk last freaking summer:
On July 22, 2016, Duke announced that he was planning to run for the Republican nomination for the United States Senate seat in Louisiana being vacated by Republican David Vitter. He stated that he was running "to defend the rights of European Americans". He claimed that his platform has become the Republican mainstream and added, "I'm overjoyed to see Donald Trump and most Americans embrace most of the issues that I've championed for years." However, Trump's campaign reaffirmed that Trump disavows Duke's support, and Republican organizations said they will not support him "under any circumstances".
CNN, July 24, 2016
Anarchists vandalized the Lincoln Memorial just now, not on national media yet, this is local DC station:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Lincoln-Memorial-Vandalized-With-Red-Spray-Paint-440565873.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-17, 13:42
So they don't like Confederate Generals? How about statues of Lincoln? He puts the O and the G in the GOP.
Anarchists vandalized the Lincoln Memorial just now, not on national media yet, this is local DC station:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Lincoln-Memorial-Vandalized-With-Red-Spray-Paint-440565873.html
Uh, shouldn't they LIKE Lincoln? I mean with the slavery thing and all......
Averageman
08-15-17, 14:13
This is a big spoon being used to stir a pot filled with hate.
The Lincoln Memorial is a symbolic gesture and the blame will go to someone on the right.
Fanning the flame.
Has anyone ask McAuliffe why he was sitting on his hands and didn't move the LEO's and National Guard in to nip this in the bud Friday night yet?
Wonder Why?
Outlander Systems
08-15-17, 14:23
One thing I've not heard discussed is the possibility that both the extreme left and extreme right are being supported by foreign, state-level actors...
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-17, 14:24
No one else sees parrallels between the Antifa tearing things down and ISIS trying to destroy statues and historical objects?
The the slow motion coup continues and Trump can't get out of his own way. Kelly better get on his game here, soon.
No one else sees parrallels between the Antifa tearing things down and ISIS trying to destroy statues and historical objects?
It has been mentioned. They are the American Taliban. Zero tolerance for anything outside their viewpoint, and using violence and destruction to achieve it.
It has been mentioned. They are the American Taliban. Zero tolerance for anything outside their viewpoint, and using violence and destruction to achieve it.
But but but......they're not as bad as the Klan or Nazi's. :rolleyes:
Anarchists vandalized the Lincoln Memorial just now, not on national media yet, this is local DC station:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Lincoln-Memorial-Vandalized-With-Red-Spray-Paint-440565873.html
I thought, especially now, that place was almost 24/7 guarded. Last time I was there it was well guarded. Obviously they will be on CTV at the very least.
I thought, especially now, that place was almost 24/7 guarded. Last time I was there it was well guarded. Obviously they will be on CTV at the very least.
Hell, put the Old Guard there, complete with M14's with fixed bayonets (like at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers) and maybe a loaded 20rd mag under their tunics just to be on the safe side!
Hell, put the Old Guard there, complete with M14's with fixed bayonets (like at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers) and maybe a loaded 20rd mag under their tunics just to be on the safe side!
It would send a message for sure, but the Park Police are not to be trifled with.....
Uh, shouldn't they LIKE Lincoln? I mean with the slavery thing and all......
Lincoln was white.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-15-17, 15:14
As soon as the stock market tanks, all this goes away.
I thought, especially now, that place was almost 24/7 guarded. Last time I was there it was well guarded. Obviously they will be on CTV at the very least.
Whichever monument just got spray painted I j7ust heard an official say " we have no suspects" " Don;t know who is responsible"
How in God's name can authorities NOT be watching monuments when it is ALL OVER social media to rally and attack. They can't afford a camera at the very least?
The guy that had applied for a permit in Richmond. Sons of Confederate Soldiers has pulled his permit. He doesn't want to take the chance of likely violence. He had planned this weeks ago.
It will not surprise me one iota to hear that the Lee Monument has been toppled and being located in the City limits of Richmond, my guess is no one will know who did it.
Has that girl in Durham been arrested yet? I'm guessing not as the Police watched, filmed, and let happen the whole deal.
“My deputies showed great restraint and respect for the constitutional rights of the group expressing their anger and disgust for recent events in our country. Racism and incivility have no place in our country or Durham.”
I have seen grainy footage of a nameless suspect and within two days he was caught several states away. But the Durham Police can't identify the girl they were standing next to and video taping as she committed the crime. Dear Durham PD, if you are so enamored with the criminals in your City. The next time you stand around watching them commit crimes at least get yourself a little autograph book. Have them sign it for you, at least you will have something to sell on eBay. Unfnbelievable.
Outlander Systems
08-15-17, 15:39
The Political Use/Disuse/Misuse of Law Enforcement is not a road that should be traveled.
I have seen grainy footage of a nameless suspect and within two days he was caught several states away. But the Durham Police can't identify the girl they were standing next to and video taping as she committed the crime. Dear Durham PD, if you are so enamored with the criminals in your City. The next time you stand around watching them commit crimes at least get yourself a little autograph book. Have them sign it for you, at least you will have something to sell on eBay. Unfnbelievable.
titsonritz
08-15-17, 15:41
Uh, shouldn't they LIKE Lincoln? I mean with the slavery thing and all......
They don't have a flipping clue who they should like, in order for that to happen they would need have a clue on the issues, people, history. Most of these guys (on both sides really) are just venting extremist assholes and could not pass a simple, basic 101 civics or history test if their life depended on it. Its just gross.
The Political Use/Disuse/Misuse of Law Enforcement is not a road that should be traveled.
That Rubicon has been crossed already, multiple times. :(
titsonritz
08-15-17, 15:57
Anarchists vandalized the Lincoln Memorial just now, not on national media yet, this is local DC station:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Lincoln-Memorial-Vandalized-With-Red-Spray-Paint-440565873.html
"F*** Law"
Just beautiful.
"F*** Law"
Just beautiful.Well, that makes me hate humanity more.
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