View Full Version : 9mm 1911 platform guns. What's so special?
skorittnig
08-15-17, 12:11
Alright fellas-- this isn't a caliber war. My question is-- why are guys buying 1911 style guns in 9mm? Why not a reliable Glock for a fraction of the price? I always saw the 1911 as a slim .45 gun, in comparison to the boxy thicker glock .45.
In addition, I thought shorter slides and smaller calibers were a recipe for firearm failure? Are 9mm 1911's as reliable in terms of function?
Are the less expensive manufacturers' offerings as reliable as Wilson Combat-- or are you pretty much obligated to spend big bucks if venturing into the 9mm 1911 arena?
Thanks
They shoot really soft. For me it was more of a collectors thing. I have a colt xse done by Mars armament and I wanted one in 9mm done by Steve as well. In cali my options are limited so I ended up getting a springfield in 9mm. Both are joys to shoot, but the 9mm is just super soft. The 9mm is finicky with ammo has to be factory or very well qc'd handloads. Mags for the most part wc, tripp, chip, and a dawson.
I would say out of the box the less expensive ones are as reliable as the ones around the WC price range, but then ymmv. I mean in general if you're really getting into 1911's your gonna spend big bucks. Nature of the game I guess.
9mm is the new hotness. Having "won" the caliber war, it is now legit to chamber 1911s for it.
Short slide 1911s were actually designed for smaller calibers in the first place, so that's a good combination. 5" slides might be fussy and not like all 9mm target ammo even though it is SAAMI spec - it's a lot of slide mass for 9mm to push around.
Let's hope you can get a reliable 9mm 1911 for less than a Wilson. People have reported reasonable reliability even in $400 ATI guns, so it really is more a question of getting an in spec gun, having your extractor working right and buying quality magazines. With a Commander size gun it should be no harder to find a reliable enough 9mm 1911 as it is to find a 5" .45 that works well. Do your homework before you buy.
In my own case I carried a Colt 1911 as a duty weapon for many years til my agency bought us all Glocks and made it mandatory to carry them. Because of logistics, cost, and modern ammo, 9mm is my preferred round. I recently bought a Springfield EMP 4 and was hesitant about it as it seems they either run great or not at all. Mine has been to the range 3 times and over 500 rounds without any issues. I paid about $1,000.00 for it. It's just a nice toy but with a holster, mag pouch, and another 4 mags to add to the 3 it came with it seemed like a fair deal to me. I simply like it. It's also a thin 9mm with a 10 round+1 capacity so it's got the potential to be a carry gun if I wanted it to.
donlapalma
08-15-17, 19:57
Bought a Dan Wesson Specialist in 9MM because I'm fond of the 1911 platform, controls and ergonomics. Add to that the decreased cost of shooting 9MM and the decision was a no-brainer. The pistol ran very reliably and was silky smooth to shoot. I've got my Glocks for no frills shooting and EDC purposes, but the 9MM 1911 easily filled the role of cheap, fun, and enjoyable range shooting.
One of the few guns I regret selling ( I tend to swap out guns like dirty socks!) is a lightly customized series 70 Colt 9mm. It ran great and was delightfully accurate. Only reason it went away wa during the early days of New York's safe act they were telling us we were not going to be able to buy magazines over 7 rounds after a certain date, and couldn't bear to have a gun with only 6 mags that I could not replace if they went down. Later NY back pedaled on mag capacity and I later moved to a free state. A decently tuned 9mm 1911 is an absolute delight to shoot
I have a Dan Wesson PM-9 and after shooting Glocks, M&Ps and both steel (Colt) and polymer (Wilson Combat KZ-45) 1911 .45s in competition, the 9mm 1911 is the closest thing to cheating I've shot. I really want a DW Guardian 9mm for carry, I just can't justify the cost right now.
Are the less expensive manufacturers' offerings as reliable as Wilson Combat-- or are you pretty much obligated to spend big bucks if venturing into the 9mm 1911 arena?
Thanks
Three of the "range crew" recently purchased Colt "Competition" 9mm's and one went with a Springfield "Range Officer".
They're a bit rough, have a buncha' MIM parts, but with a bit of tweaking all have run 100% with decent ammo.
So no, BIG BUCKS are not a requirement for a functional 9mm 1911.
Issues encountered were the usual; crap triggers, mushy or too stiff thumb safeties, ill fitted barrels (too long links to give illusion of proper barrel fitment), short chamber throats/leades. I think we replaced parts (hammer/sear) in one gun and re-worked the remainder.
I currently run three 9's; a modded, slick old 70 series Colt, a re-born "1991" Colt- with 70 series modifications (no FP safety parts/new sear/hammer/disconnect) and a Caspian slide and a (pretty much) stock Wilson.
My background was as a USPSA and NRA "Action Pistol" shooter, so I have a few decades of experience with the 1911 platform.
Back "in the day", there weren't many 1911 smiths. Keeping a gun running was up to the shooter if you couldn't wait for a year or afford a couple extra pistols.
Here's the 70 series Colt with a lot of work:
http://i.imgur.com/Brm1aTy.jpg?1
The reborn "1991" Colt:
http://i.imgur.com/acWcOdm.jpg?2
Wilson:
http://i.imgur.com/jVgDVU5.jpg?1
I run Metalform, 10 rd. mags or Dawsons rebranded Metalforms with metal base pad.
They are 100% in function and cheaper than most others. Tripp's mags are very good as well.
Range ammo is a 124 gr. JHP Precision Delta or HAP, with 4 gr. Titegroup, SPP, range brass and COAL of 1.145".
Seating bullets longer has proven a bit more reliable for gun/mag function. As said, I increase the leade on my barrels to accommodate the longer COAL.
Karts barrels are short chambered when received anyhow.
Here's a 50 yd. target from the bench.
I think this was from the "reborn 1991". All of the pistols will shoot 2" or under at 50 with my range load.
http://i.imgur.com/GkqOKdj.jpg
wetidlerjr
08-16-17, 07:01
My 9mm Colt Commander is soft shooting and accurate. What's not to like? As for being "legit", 9MM 1911s have been around for years so that makes no sense along with the perpetuation of so-called "caliber wars". As my nieces used to say when they were young, "Save the drama for your mama."
Gary1911A1
08-16-17, 09:48
As I get older and my arthritis starts to hurt more especially after high round counts I find shooting my 1911s' in 9MM and 38 Super to be a joy not to go home with hands hurting.
beschatten
08-16-17, 13:09
After my first 9mm 1911 purchase in 2013, a DW Pointman 9, I've been on a quest to get one with parallel reliability as .45ACP under optimal conditions (street carry, range time, competition) - not a sandbox or swamp. The ease of shooting and pleasure of shooting it was a completely different experience.
I believe I've experienced the full spectrum (just about), from an entry level SA RO 9mm, 1991 Colts, Dan Wesson, full Custom from a well known shop, and a Wilson Combat. My experience in sizes include Commanders and Government.
I kept some, sold some, but consider the Wilson CQB the pinnacle example, and will probably never let it go. It's slick as butter which is something I greatly desire in this platform in 9mm, and they are set up to work with my magazine of choice. I also admire the quality of the pistol and meaning behind it.
My findings are the following:
- Wilson ETM Gen 2 / Vickers are my magazine of choice. Chips, Dawson, Cobras, etc. etc. work well too, but make sure you extensively test your magazines in your gun as a number of things can play into the reliability of the magazine for your gun.
- It's easier to find a consistent round that works with your gun with a ramped barrel (my Colt does not have one, but it also does not like certain brands as well - mostly junk brands).
- Select the hottest round in 9mm you can, 124g and 147g tend to work the best. Aluminum cased 115g requires a spring change, reducing it by 2# or so. You want your Government sized 9mm 1911 to slide as quickly as possible in the event there is carbon or
muck buildup which will slow the slide down.
- Entry level guns do work when the manufacturer sets it up correctly.
- If the feeling of a 'slower cycling slide' bothers you - opt for the Commander size. The .75 inch reduction really does make a difference in how it 'feels'.
- Keep it relatively clean and well oiled if you want to carry it (test it first though).
Just my own personal findings in the past 4 years or so. As always, take everything I say with a grain of salt and test things out for yourself. I find myself too invested in the 1911 platform to really step away, and have found it my go-to. I understand the limitations and capabilities of it and work with it.
dusterdude
08-16-17, 13:36
1911's in anything other than .45 acp is pure blasphemy.
Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk
1911's in anything other than .45 acp is pure blasphemy.
Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk
You might think that, but the people who shoot faster than you disagree. ;)
skorittnig
08-16-17, 16:36
LOL-- great responses gentlemen!
Late last year I picked up a RIA 9mm 5". Did a fair bit tinkering to get things as I wanted them. Aside from two ammo related issues very early on, it now has 2200 issue free rounds through it. Mostly 115gr FMJ practice ammo, but another 400 rounds of JHP (115gr and 124gr).
I'm limited to 10 round mags here in California. A 9mm 1911 fits that nicely.
It shoots nicely, it handles well, and it's proven reliable. What's not to like? Oh, and it's also sexy. :)
http://i.imgur.com/RDGpRGu.jpg
Don Robison
08-16-17, 21:19
My two carry guns are Wilson CQBs in .45; it made sense to set up a pair of 9mms to cut training costs a bit.
I went through the same Dilemma with " if I'm going to shoot a 9, I'm going to shoot my P30". But as time passed and my love for 1911's, soon came the SA Lipsey and here I am back with a 9mm 1911 and I love it.
Just don't fight it if your a 1911 guy.
PB
I've been wanting one for years, mostly because of how soft they reportedly shoot and ammo costs. This thread isn't helping my addiction.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My carry pistol is a Wilson Combat Tactical Carry in 9mm. It is a very accurate and sweet pistol to shoot. I only have about 1600 rounds through it ranging from Asym copper tops to MEM NATO all around +P. There has been zero malfunctions and all rounds on target. I carry this 90% of the time favored over my Glock 19. The recoil is a bit more manageable for my arthritic hands. I've read many posts regarding the cost of a Wilson as compared to a Glock but I don't find that a valid argument. I just saved money longer to own one. I've got about $1100 invested in my Glock to get the most out of it but I will always pick the Wilson or any good 1911 over it. There is no other pistol out there that I would rather carry in the civilian world than a 1911. There is no other pistol I would take into a combat role than the Glock.
Evel Baldgui
08-17-17, 23:41
I've streamlined my guns to two calibers 9mm/5.56. So a 9mm 1911 is perfect for me !
skorittnig
08-18-17, 19:19
There is no other pistol out there that I would rather carry in the civilian world than a 1911. There is no other pistol I would take into a combat role than the Glock.
That's a very interesting quote-- and I'm not being smart. I'm not a soldier, so I've never been in combat or anything remotely similar. I'm curious-- are you referring to reliability when you say this? Or mag capacity? Or?
Thanks-- It just got me thinking.
TomMontana
08-18-17, 19:21
1911 in 9mm always seemed weird. Then I fondled the WC Hackathorn Special in 9mm. Loved it. Need to figure a way to get one home.
I have wanted a 4" EMP for years. SA released the 4" EMP and I am having a hard time not opening my wallet even though I should get an RMR and put it on my P-09 instead. Maybe I will get both one day. 45's don't interest me since I only stock 9mm and reload 9mm.
The Glock has more tolerance for abuse and 5 more rounds of capacity. It can take more abuse without malfunctioning.
Deleted...Under caffeinated.
Mike
Augie.Cooper
08-20-17, 11:15
I bought my Kimber in 9mm because I could afford to shoot it 2x as much as my 45s even reloading so that is how I ended up with one.
Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
The Glock has more tolerance for abuse and 5 more rounds of capacity. It can take more abuse without malfunctioning.
Fire hydrants are often red a push out water. Wait that doesn't make any sense in this conversation.
PB
I have a 5" .38 super that runs great dirty or clean. It's functioned with low power and hot reloads. I use a #15 recoil spring. For a while I wanted a 9mm barrel for it but now that I have enough .38 SA brass I'll just spend the barrel money on mags and ammo..
If one doesn't reload a 9mm makes a lot of sense in a government model.
Fire hydrants are often red a push out water. Wait that doesn't make any sense in this conversation.
PB
You got jokes... How about you add to the thread instead? When you look at the Glock, there is really only one external device that can break if the weapon is dropped. When you look at the 1911, there is the hammer, the safety, and the plunger tube. I prefer the 1911 to the Glock in all shooting aspects due to its trigger and ergonomic design, but I do feel that the Glock is more durable. It is just my opinion. Now make more jokes.
Chuc,
You are entitled to your opinion as you are in your choice of guns to carry and use. I see you like 1911's and Glocks, me too. As you have stated you like the trigger and ergonomics of the 1911 platform. That is a big draw to many shooters across the spectrum. I do need to bring to your attention that the 1911 is a very robust firearm and like the Glock can break during usage. A Glock can and has failed from drops and/or abuse...that is a fact. However, the Glock lacks the advantage of not being in service as long as the 1911. Proven over time in some of the harshest environments on the planet in every war and conflict since WWI, the 1911 wins the durability challenge. This is not opinion, it is fact. 106 years of facts!
Hell, when it was first introduced it went through some very rigorous testing protocols even by today's standards...
"Browning was determined to prove the superiority of his handgun, so he went to Hartford to personally supervise the production of the gun. There he met Fred Moore, a young Colt employee with whom he worked in close cooperation trying to make sure that each part that was produced for the test guns was simply the best possible. The guns produced were submitted again for evaluation, to the committee. A torture test was conducted, on March 3rd, 1911. The test consisted of having each gun fire 6000 rounds. One hundred shots would be fired and the pistol would be allowed to cool for 5 minutes. After every 1000 rounds, the pistol would be cleaned and oiled. After firing those 6000 rounds, the pistol would be tested with deformed cartridges, some seated too deeply, some not seated enough, etc. The gun would then be rusted in acid or submerged in sand and mud and some more tests would then be conducted.
Browning's pistols passed the whole test series with flying colors. It was the first firearm to undergo such a test, firing continuously 6000 cartridges, a record broken only in 1917 when Browning's recoil-operated machine gun fired a 40000 rounds test."
The 1911 is tough enough Chuc. The Glock has it's place...just not the long term proven performance that JMB's 1911 has.
Choose the tool that is right for you at the time.
M/
This is a thread about about 1911's, not Glock. Understand that. Glock people always think its about Glock. As with any such brand and obsession whether it be Rem700, Sig ..... It doesn't matter what Glock thinks, its not appropriate here. Most people would agree Glock, even me even though I am a HK fan koolaid drinker, would agree Glock is a durable handgun. Add to a 1911 thread, no more jokes. Glock is no 1911 !
Glock are great guns for people that can't afford a nice 1911 or an HK. no more jokes !
PB
SeriousStudent
08-25-17, 21:55
This thread is not about Glocks.
If you want to start your own thread about Glock's superiority in combat, at the range, or overall sexiness, start your own thread.
So that would be you, Chuc. Do not post in this thread again.
I apologize gents. I did not intend to lead the thread astray... I am a die hard 1911 carry guy. I find the 9mm in this platform to be better for me than .45. I own 2 1911's in .45 and one in 9mm. Please accept my sincere apology.
I forgive you brother.
M/
I've had a few 1911 9mm's, the most recent being a Kimber Stainless Target II, and they're very fun guns to shoot. Light recoiling, light triggers, good ergonomics. I'd rather teach someone to shoot with a 9mm 1911 than with a Glock for those reasons. The only issues I've had with my 9mm 1911's have been magazine related, and they were solved when I switched to Wilson magazines.
9mm 1911s got real hot during the ammo shortage. It was easier and cheaper to find 9mm than 45 acp. Folks just had platforms built ect to run 9mm in their favorite platform.
I have a full size rock island ts in 9mm. Using 10rd metalform mags it's 100% reliable on the range. It makes me giggle with how easy it is to shoot. Very light recoil! I'm also currently building a switch caliber in 38 super and 9mm.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.