View Full Version : Any tips for tighter groups at 100 yards?
BallisticHarmony
08-16-17, 18:41
14.5" SR-15 MOD 2 MLOK
NF 2.5-10x24
KAC trigger
MOE-SL stock
Shooting support blocks provided at range
Still need to buy a rear bag
Bore snake is run after each range session, once with CLP and then another 1 or 2 times. That's the extent of the cleaning it gets.
These groups at 100 (https://m.imgur.com/a/YpWzF) are with IMI 77 Razor Core and 77 Peak Performance. It was my first time trying out the Nightforce. I think it must either be that my gun doesn't like those rounds, or I'm throwing shots when I pull the trigger even though at 10x it looks like I'm dead on. Would cleaning with more than a bore snake make a difference? With my naked eye it seems clean enough, but how would I know.
Also can anyone recommend a rear bag? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
IraqVet1982
08-16-17, 19:05
A steady rest (bags) and good shooting will likely tighten it up. Some guns are finicky with ammo. Recommend buying 5 boxes of different grain bullets. Groups are groups, your scope doesn't need to be sighted in for tight groups. See what ammo shoots the best. If they're all bad, it's likely you and not the gun/ammo.
quit cleaning the barrel...
Try to find some Federal GMM 77g.
Get a rear bag as already stated. I run the Red Tac Gear rear bags...
What do the crosshairs do when you dry fire?
What kind of groups have you had in the past?
It just looks like you need to work on fundamentals, or something is wrong(loose scope?)
Dry fire the shit out of it... and a pistol, then the rifle again, and try again.
I would stick with 10 shot mil surplus groups until you get it down to a consistent grouping.
Assuming everything is in working order and installed correctly, I'd grab a rear bag and focus on:
Breathing
Trigger control (straight and smooth to the rear)
Breathing
Consistent cheek weld/mounting of the stock
And also breathing.
I wouldn't mess with ammo until you're solid on the above.
Make sure you are looking through the scope from the same angle every time. It's important that your cheek is on the same spot on the stock, but it's also important that the lateral and vertical forces holding your cheek there are also the same. If not, you'll smush your face around and your eye won't always be centered behind the eye piece.
BallisticHarmony
08-16-17, 20:45
Make sure you are looking through the scope from the same angle every time. It's important that your cheek is on the same spot on the stock, but it's also important that the lateral and vertical forces holding your cheek there are also the same. If not, you'll smush your face around and your eye won't always be centered behind the eye piece.
What sucks is my ADM mount is so low I can't get a good sight picture with my Leight headphones on.... so I shot with only plugs in.
Aim small miss small, use a small bullseye. I like to use 1 inch squares at 100 yards. At 10 power you should be able to see them fine.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I would invest in a bipod...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=198700
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Working more on fundementals, trying a wider variety of ammo, and verifying your scope is secured tightly are all good suggestions. My guess is that it's probably a software issue. However, if you're having problems with consistent cheek/eye placement due to the hardware, that makes it a little harder to work on fundementals. While you might be able to tinker with the configuration, it wouldn't hurt to consider swapping in a different mount. I also find that muffs/headphones are cumbersome with shooting from a bench, and have pretty much been using plugs exclusively. Honestly, I got a rubbery 3M pair from lowes for like $5 and they work really well.
In a broader sense, more shooters would benefit from being like you. Being honest and open about ones abilities, performance, and accepting that there's room for improvement is not all that common. A lot of people will perpetually spin their wheels in mediocrity because they are too proud to admit their reality doesn't match their espoused abilities. I saw this all the time when I played golf competitively, and it's just about as bad in the shooting community. So, kudos to you, sir!
BallisticHarmony
08-17-17, 02:36
Working more on fundementals, trying a wider variety of ammo, and verifying your scope is secured tightly are all good suggestions. My guess is that it's probably a software issue. However, if you're having problems with consistent cheek/eye placement due to the hardware, that makes it a little harder to work on fundementals. While you might be able to tinker with the configuration, it wouldn't hurt to consider swapping in a different mount. I also find that muffs/headphones are cumbersome with shooting from a bench, and have pretty much been using plugs exclusively. Honestly, I got a rubbery 3M pair from lowes for like $5 and they work really well.
In a broader sense, more shooters would benefit from being like you. Being honest and open about ones abilities, performance, and accepting that there's room for improvement is not all that common. A lot of people will perpetually spin their wheels in mediocrity because they are too proud to admit their reality doesn't match their espoused abilities. I saw this all the time when I played golf competitively, and it's just about as bad in the shooting community. So, kudos to you, sir!
Thank you!
Lots of good advice given. Be sure when shooting from the bench to remember natural point of aim. Dont muscle the rifle on to target even the smallest bit if you can help it. Line up your sights on target, close eyes, breathe 2-3 cycles, open eyes check your sight picture. Adjust your position by scooting your ass around the seat and repeat the eyes closed and breathing routine until your sights stay on target.
Follow through is important by is mostly a mental exercise since there is little to be done consciously while the bullet rides down the bore. Be sure to watch your sights as they move under recoil and dont come off the scope until your sights are back to rest on target. Even if your sights come back to rest just off target, push them back on to target before coming off scope.
Eye fatigue is real. Youve got about 8 seconds once you exhale before oxygen deprivation starts affecting your shooting. First to suffer is vision so dont take too long making a shot perfect. Come off scope and look at the green grass or leaves for a few moments, get back on it and make your shot. Provided your locale is green of course. Green is relaxing so look at any bit of it you can between shots. I use to eat oranges before the long range portion of a hi power match. Id heard the natural sugars were good and had positive effects on vision. I felt it work as did some others and of course some didnt think it helped. Yet others thought fruit is gross, a waste of funion and soda space. Theyre all probably dead by now. Ymmv but the latter groups scores typically sucked.
Be sure to hold trigger to the rear and get a firm reset click after each shot. Also recommend keeping your feet flat while seated for consistency. Ive seen some people feet bouncing around a bit while they are shooting and arent aware of it. Those slight movements can echo through the whole body. Make sure the front rest is padded and the rifle isnt bouncing around up front.
I also found caffeine and nicotine not condusive to really good shooting, though ymmv and Ive know some good shots that regularly used one or both. I recommend waiting til your done shooting til having a smoke and I would only drink enough coffee to get you going. Ive never been a coffee drinker so regulate as you see fit and be aware that it can impact your range performance, monitor accordingly.
While shooting in this more accurate manner consider a shooting log or data book even scribbling in a sheet of paper. Ive never got into the drudgery of recording sun position temp and such but any prevailing winds are notable (but typically negligible at 100yd) What is important is calling your shot immediately after you take it, marking it down and then comparing it to reality. This is a diagnostic tool. If your shot matches your call you are doing things correctly. If not something is amiss. It is a skill unto itself and takes practice but will be very useful.
Any thoughts of trying a lighter trigger? Looking at your first target I would say you were jerking the trigger a little, but then the rest of your targets look like your breathing or sight picture.
What sucks is my ADM mount is so low I can't get a good sight picture with my Leight headphones on.... so I shot with only plugs in.
I bought a set of Leights and had the same issue with iron sights, Aimpoint PRO, and an Aero Precision ultra light scope mount. The ear pieces just sit way too low for most heads on an AR...maybe other long guns too. Have some from Caldwell that clear, but if they get damp from light rain or even sweat it sounds like bacon frying so not exactly a help.
Take a look at the Sensgard/Otis hearing protectors. I was pleasantly surprised that they do allow most normal conversation through and are fine for range commands in addition to being much cooler than muffs in hot weather.
Any thoughts of trying a lighter trigger? Looking at your first target I would say you were jerking the trigger a little, but then the rest of your targets look like your breathing or sight picture.
I have a triggertech adjustable trigger on my A4...best trigger I have ever used...Period. I looked at your targets and everyone of your shots is below the horizontal centerline of the target being shot...with the exception on one shot. Not sure if you are left or right handed, so I can't really comment on your shot placement. I just find it interesting that all of the shots are low or on center.
I don't shoot from a bench...shoot prone all of the time. Took a course 5 years ago shooting long distance...all of the small adjustments by themselves did nothing to my groups, but when applied as a whole, what a difference. The breathing was the one factor that changed my groups the most, followed by properly positioning myself in line with the rifle, then cheek weld. Honestly, ammo never came into the equation. Only, until after I had applied the basics, did ammo become a issue.
Still learning from guys shooting F-class and CMP. They have their own little nuances...find ones that work for you...its a process, but one you will enjoy.
You need to stabilize the entire carbine/rifle from the time you initiate the trigger squeeze through bullet departure and follow-through. Try long Bull Bags and a rear bag:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/42a2b251-57e1-40a2-b57f-8c15c1b262c3.jpg._CB280736434_.jpg
The KAC trigger is excellent for a clean break but it takes a while for that (relatively massive) hammer to swing through its arc to hit the primer and initiate the firing chain.
A hammer-fired weapon is never going to fire as quickly as a striker-fired one.
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