View Full Version : ACOG compact thoughts?
So i was doing some shopping today looking for an optic for the LMT Piston im waiting on and now im caught between optics. Iv ran my Eotech and the issue ACOG for 2 deployment and have been happy with both and they both have there place with me. Eotech for MOUNT and ACOG for ambushes and SKTs. but then today i ran across the ACOG compact and it kind of has the best of both worlds not to much magnification for CQB but still some for medium enagments, plus no batteries. have any of u guys ran them and what are your thoughts.
fabulous45s
10-05-08, 19:17
I've been running one for a couple of years now and find it's very versatile. Not quite as fast as a RDS in CQB, but it still holds its own. And they shine at intermediate distances.
yeah.... i think im getting the Horus vision Talon. totally forgot about short dots
:)
Parabellum9x19mm
10-05-08, 20:42
Eotech for MOUNT
did you mean to type "MOUT"? :confused:
I'm a fan.
1.5x on left, 3x on right.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/1.5XVS3X.jpg
3x on top, 1.5x on bottom
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/Both-01.jpg
I put a 1.5X compact on an M4gery about 18 months ago and am coming up on about 3K rounds through it. I run my own drills from 10 to 100 yards and on out to 200 and sometimes 300 with it. Everything out to 100 yards is on the timer. All I know is that this unit will let me go as fast as I can and it is still waiting on me.
I wish this sight had been around in my military and LEO days...it's great.
I have the 3X30 on an M1A; obviously a somewhat different application and not exactly the thing for CQB. It's still somewhat "fast" close in but a lot more length and weight to throw around. For anything under 150 yards I prefer the 1.5X. The 2X might be interesting to play with as a compromise.
All I know is that I like the Compacts a lot.
I'm another fan of those little scopes :D
I have a TA44-5 (1.5x).
I've used it on my M16A2clone for years...the Compact ACOGs fit like a glove on A2 upper...
while I'm waiting for my M4gery I want to try it on my FAL :p
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1093/compactacog0kx9.jpg http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4313/compactacog1xf1.jpg
dont worry the scope was not mounted on the rifle when I took these pics ;)
VooDoo6Actual
10-16-08, 12:54
IMO ACOG's in their interations, are superb for a HEAVY Battle rifles (i.e. FAL's, AR's "Blinged out") or KNOWN engagement distances in an AO.
BravoGolf59
10-18-08, 21:05
I'm a fan.
rob_s, can you tell me how the ACOGs line up with a standard FSB? I noticed that you have front flip sights, but was wondering what happens with the FSB on a flat top when looking through the ACOG. Also, is it dependent on whose mount is used?
Thanks.
Battl3fr0nt
10-19-08, 05:03
I have always liked the 1.5x and 2x ACOG's.. I am really thinking of getting a LMT I will be getting next year.. I love my TA31F but a 1.5 power ACOG is a awesome optic for CQB and if you dont have the best eyes then it would be a better idea then going with a Aimpoint or EoTech, hell if you have good eyes 20/20 or better vision then a Aimpoint or EoTech is a good optic but I have really bad eyes that is one of the reasons I like my TA31F.. I can shoot better at 50 yards with my TA31F then I can with a Aimpoint.. and with BAC I can shoot at really any range under that almost as fast as a Aimpoint or EoTech.. I just am having a hard time picking from the 1.5x or the 2x.. I already know I dont want the TA33 3X since it is 1 power less then the TA31's and you have less FOV.. for now I am just topping off my Armalite Middy with a Flip up FSB.. I know that will help alot with the lower power ACOGs to..
rob_s, can you tell me how the ACOGs line up with a standard FSB? I noticed that you have front flip sights, but was wondering what happens with the FSB on a flat top when looking through the ACOG. Also, is it dependent on whose mount is used?
Thanks.
I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "line up"?
You essentially won't see the front sight through the optic. This is especially so with the 3x, and much less so with the 1.5x.
I owned one (1.5x with red triangle) but found that I prefer a battery powered RDS (Aimpoint and Eotech).
In Low Light CQB, the ACOG reticle washes out when a white light is brought into play. It's there, it's just black. Not so with RDS, provided it's not set very dim.
Also found with the 1.5 ACOG that I owned, at distance the triangle blocked things that I wanted to see. The chevron is a better way to go than the triangle.
I later owned a TA11 and found the same problem with low light, plus I found that going from bright daylight conditions into a darkened room, the ACOG recticle is not bright enough to see it until your eyes adjust to the dim light.
Again, not a problem with a RDS.
ACOGS are also very senstive to eye relief. Try shooting from some unconventional positions, or mounting the carbine very quickly (like in a stresful environment when you need to get hits quickly) or when you're wearing a lot of kit, or when you have to shoot with the stock not in your shoulder. Again, the RDS has the advantage.
If I want magnification, I'll get a magnifier, or buy a Short Dot or some type of variable optic.
The 1.5x and 3.5x of the ACOGs slowed me down in CQB. The 1.5 isn't as bad in this regard as the 3.5, but there's a noticable difference between the 1.5 and a 1.0x RDS.
I found that BAC did not work well for me, and I tried really hard. What did work for me on close targets was to use a Progressive Machine spring loaded objective lens cover. When I wanted to shoot close targets, I closed the cover, and shot using occluded mode. I could see the donut in occluded mode, but not the rest of the reticle.
Anyway, IMO 1.5x did not provide much advantage over any of the 1.0x RDS sights, and was slower and less versatile for the close stuff.
Try before you buy. Maybe it'll work for you, but the 1.5x didn't work for me. I like a RDS much better.
As to the FSB, it's there but you simply ignore it. Shoot with both eyes open.
BravoGolf59
10-19-08, 11:44
I'm not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by "line up"?
You essentially won't see the front sight through the optic. This is especially so with the 3x, and much less so with the 1.5x.
Sorry, I should have said "cowitness". I was curious about if the FSB was in the way, or if the ACOG sits high enough to cowitness. So what you guys are saying, is that the FSB essentially disappears at 3x?
VooDoo6Actual
10-19-08, 14:24
YES, it does.
LettersFromEarth
10-24-08, 11:05
Last weekend I and a friend ran two mags of 855 through my M4 with the Compact ACOG 2x20 sitting on top. It had the amber crosshair reticle and at 25m the optic was very user friendly. Too bad we didnt get a chance to do anything closer (or farther) but we came away impressed with the optic as a whole. I think the Triangle or even (gasp!) the dot reticle MIGHT be better choices then the crosshair for a GP optic, though. YMMV
And just to make the choices really tough, Trijicon is releasing two new compacts to make things even more difficult: the TA26S and TA44S. These have circle-dot reticules.
See:
http://www.trijicon-inc.com/pdfs/acog.pdf
LettersFromEarth
10-28-08, 10:42
And just to make the choices really tough, Trijicon is releasing two new compacts to make things even more difficult: the TA26S and TA44S. These have circle-dot reticules.
See:
http://www.trijicon-inc.com/pdfs/acog.pdf
Amicus,
Very nice. Thanks alot. My wife now hates you. (She hates me, too--so dont fret over it too much.:))
Man, Trijicon is really on a role lately. If they do this with their TA33 or TA47 I will somehow manage to score one.
ACOGS are also very senstive to eye relief. Try shooting from some unconventional positions, or mounting the carbine very quickly (like in a stresful environment when you need to get hits quickly) or when you're wearing a lot of kit, or when you have to shoot with the stock not in your shoulder. Again, the RDS has the advantage.
If I want magnification, I'll get a magnifier, or buy a Short Dot or some type of variable optic.
Having owned and shot with the Short Dot, I can tell you it has the same issues with eye relief, cheek weld, etc. Also, the FFP version does not make it easy to use the Flash Dot above 1x - it gets too big with magnification. The Short Dot is also a heavy M'er F'er.
The TA33 3x compact ACOGs are much less sensitive to eye position and cheek weld than the 4x or other compact ACOGs. IMHO, the TA33s are the fastest magnified ACOGs out there. The tradeoff is FOV, but it's not as bad as you might have been led to believe.
I found that BAC did not work well for me, and I tried really hard. What did work for me on close targets was to use a Progressive Machine spring loaded objective lens cover. When I wanted to shoot close targets, I closed the cover, and shot using occluded mode. I could see the donut in occluded mode, but not the rest of the reticle.
ACOGs in OEG mode are useful, but you need to adjust for the offset at close range (both vertical and horizontal). It's possible, but requires training and practice.
Personally, I think that the TA-11B is the fastest magnified ACOG, but that's my opinion. Trijicon has stated to me that they did not sell very many of them, but then they don't publish the reticule specs.
I agree that the narrow FOV of the TA-33 series is not a big issue, if you shoot with both eyes open. The problem occurs when you do not. I have seen people in tactical classes have problems with target acquisition and selection when shooting with the weak eye closed -- tunnel vision. I also understand that Canadian Army experienced a few live fire fatalities when the Elcan was introduced due to the shooter's lack of peripheral awareness (e.g., people running into the line of fire, but out of view through the scope).
I too would like to see a circle dot reticule in a 2X ACOG.
LettersFromEarth
10-28-08, 21:32
[QUOTE=Amicus;239837]...I have seen people in tactical classes have problems with target acquisition and selection when shooting with the weak eye closed -- tunnel vision...[QUOTE]
Happens with Irons, TA01s, TA11s, and TA31s too, brother. Only way to get by that is with training Not shooting a qual course and calling it good either. Im talking the dirty, nasty "Im glad thats over with" kind of training. The way I see it Training is like KY Jelly. The more you use it the slicker you become!:) (Damn...that was lame. I need some sleep! lol)
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