View Full Version : sopmod clone block ll part alternatives?
looking at building my first clone, and a few major of parts are hard to find. what parts are you all using in place of the items you can not find or get? rail, flash hider? i want it to be correct as i can be but damn 600.00 for a rail? 300.00 flash hider.
albatrossarmament
08-23-17, 18:12
Can you clarify what rifle you want to clone? Sopmod Block 2 can refer to a few different rifles. If you are gonna build a clone do it right. And if you are on a budget, do not attempt to build a clone, you will only be disappointed.
Sorry, it's the one with the Daniel defense fsp ris ll rail, 14.5 colt socom barrel.
SeriousStudent
08-23-17, 19:42
What flash hider are you looking for?
Sorry, it's the one with the Daniel defense fsp ris ll rail, 14.5 colt socom barrel.
well thought I had that solved for you until you said FSP
https://danieldefense.com/upper-receiver-groups/daniel-defense-m4-urg-m4a1.html
If you put alternative parts on there then it's not really a clone anymore. It'd just be more of an "inspired" build. Which is fine, but very different than a clone.
They're expensive, but worth the time and effort. If you think the flash hider is bad wait until you go to buy the flashlight. Usually around $850 minimum *if* you can find one :)
Renegade04
08-24-17, 18:16
http://i.imgur.com/pyGpIBW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ayCBZ3F.png
so far i have a colt marked m4a1 lower,lmt sopmod stock and kac buis. did they use lmt ergo grips? i see them posted on a lot of clones but not sure if its correct? also does color of the rail matter? that seems like a dumb question but would rather get it right.
so far i have a colt marked m4a1 lower,lmt sopmod stock and kac buis. did they use lmt ergo grips? i see them posted on a lot of clones but not sure if its correct? also does color of the rail matter? that seems like a dumb question but would rather get it right.
"Did they use (fill in the blank)" all depends on who you mean by they. If you mean NSW-Crane, the options are limited. When it comes to the guns in the actual force, what is on a SOPMOD gun varies wildly. Even with the list above, there are several items that I have never seen on a SOPMOD gun (IE leupold MK8, the Nightforce 2.5-10).
As for the rails, some black DD ones are out there - I know for a fact some elements in 5th group bought them.
Rick
I think for a "clone" the rail is pretty much the most important part. There is no substitute there.
masenomics
08-25-17, 09:00
I got both my DD RIS II handguards about a year and a half ago on amazing sales, the black one I got for 150 on clearance from brownells and the fde one from rainier Arms for about 250. Both the fsp versions, unfortunately I haven't found them on sale or in stock anywhere since.
Spending all those hours hunting for all the correct parts is what makes it so much fun. Not easy, sometimes rather expensive, but that's all part of the game. For those things that you can't simply locate you can either just not run them, and wait until you can find them, or substitute them with "knock offs" which can be frowned upon. Personally, the base rifle is relatively easy to build and locate parts for. Its the SOPMOD accessories like the WMX200, su230, su231, su231a, su233, etc. that are the difficult things to locate. Those are all things you can get later though. Build the base gun up, put a few thousand rounds through it, begin searching for the hard to find stuff, then when it's complete, spray paint it lol.
some how today i found a brand new 4 prong surefire flash hider at a gun store i never go in. he had 200.00 and let me have it for 160.00. so yeah that the only update so far. oh and kac grip
some how today i found a brand new 4 prong surefire flash hider at a gun store i never go in. he had 200.00 and let me have it for 160.00. so yeah that the only update so far. oh and kac grip and rail covers.
KAC rail covers? Are you doing a MK18 MOD 0 build?
The DD rails didnt ever have KAC covers on them. They came with the brown rubbe/skeletonized covers but those were quickly discarded.
Rick
Nevermind I need to learn how to read better.
M4A1 SOPMOD Block II. this is the clone i am building.
http://i.imgur.com/pyGpIBW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ayCBZ3F.png
Awesome xcell, renegade. A few comments on acceptable alternatives: ACOG +/- Doctor stayed in service on some guns, as did Surefire 6p's and G2's. Some guys hung onto the click tailcaps from the old huge Surefires and put them on the 6p's and G2's.
And I have used and seen all sorts of grips and slings on work guns, so I would consider pretty much whatever someone likes as acceptable on a block II clone.
I'd also add that I saw many guys ditch the "sought after" KAC sights for stuff like magpul. I've seen more than one dude get frustrated to find his front sight wouldn't stay up and was easily knocked down after he had to use them when his eotech batteries died after a couple hours of CQB & Chill at the shoot house.
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probably going to with the lmt buis. after looking at a one i like those better.
well i found the rail thanks to a member here. i will post pics when all this is done.
I was going to say Midwest Industries makes a nice fsp carbine quad rail. Just ordered a brand new FDE one for $140 shipped.
Block 2 builds are a challenge. Not 100% correct, but somewhat close. I settled on a black FSP and gave up looking for a FDE RIS II. Base gun is a Colt 6920, haven't converted to the 14.5 SOCOM Barrel with pinned muzzle because it would be almost impossible to remove the RIS II (unless a smith removed the pinned muzzle). This thing weighs a ton compared to other builds. It's a good shooter though.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4333/36578560260_e1a6322515_b.jpg
Block 2 builds are a challenge. Not 100% correct, but somewhat close. I settled on a black FSP and gave up looking for a FDE RIS II. Base gun is a Colt 6920, haven't converted to the 14.5 SOCOM Barrel with pinned muzzle because it would be almost impossible to remove the RIS II (unless a smith removed the pinned muzzle). This thing weighs a ton compared to other builds. It's a good shooter though.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4333/36578560260_e1a6322515_b.jpg
Theres nothing wrong with the FSP rail for a block 2 build. And once you paint it who cares if it was black?
That, unlike most "Block 2" builds out there, actually looks like a rifle in use by SOF.
Rick
Base gun is a Colt 6920, haven't converted to the 14.5 SOCOM Barrel with pinned muzzle because it would be almost impossible to remove the RIS II (unless a smith removed the pinned muzzle).
Early in BlockII, my gun retained the silly gov profile barrel, so you're not too far off. I'm planning a clone of it and considering getting a 6920 barrel cut to 15" and pinning a KAC QD flashhider on it, so as to get as close as possible without a stamp. (Don't want to have to sell it if I move). Too bad I can't match the SN.
Theres nothing wrong with the FSP rail for a block 2 build. And once you paint it who cares if it was black?
That, unlike most "Block 2" builds out there, actually looks like a rifle in use by SOF.
Rick
Fair points, thanks. Favorite gun for making bacon.
Early in BlockII, my gun retained the silly gov profile barrel, so you're not too far off. I'm planning a clone of it and considering getting a 6920 barrel cut to 15" and pinning a KAC QD flashhider on it, so as to get as close as possible without a stamp. (Don't want to have to sell it if I move). Too bad I can't match the SN.
Makes sense, I think I read somewhere in the past that being the case. As dumb as the gov profile is, I prefer it over the SOCOM profile for this build. That RIS II is a heavy girl and makes the gun front heavy for me.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4335/36787434716_21e530be61_b.jpg
Hammer_Man
09-03-17, 15:35
In regards to handguards, I know the DD is the only clone correct piece, but I just noticed Centurion had 12" C4 with FSP cutouts on their website this week. With the scarcity of DD handguards on the market, I think one of those would make a good alternative for somebody who doesn't care to be 100% clone correct.
I found a used RIS II on gunbroker a couple of weeks ago for $350 shipped. I placed it on a colt oem 1 and it looks like a nice start to a quasi clone. Long story short, I think some deals can still be found on the dd rails. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170903/7c72853e7ba7a2b2c364c691f0db166b.jpg
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just an update, got all the parts for the gun except the colt barrel which is on its way. then its on to optics. any suggestions? i looked at the eotech exps3-0 but with the recall thinking of avoiding the eotech.
just an update, got all the parts for the gun except the colt barrel which is on its way. then its on to optics. any suggestions? i looked at the eotech exps3-0 but with the recall thinking of avoiding the eotech.
Supposedly L3 fixed the issues with the EOtech series with their latest revisions. The latest models have a different logo engraving on the protective hood indicating these newer models.
just an update, got all the parts for the gun except the colt barrel which is on its way. then its on to optics. any suggestions? i looked at the eotech exps3-0 but with the recall thinking of avoiding the eotech.
I went Aimpoint PRO in ADM mounts for both of mine.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=47502&d=1505600838
longshot2000
09-18-17, 08:29
I think for a "clone" the rail is pretty much the most important part. There is no substitute there.
I would agree. I am a clone nerd. M4A1 clones are actually not that hard. Block 1 is simple. Block 2 a little harder, but all of the parts are readily available, and prices are not insane. You then graduate to the Mk18 and then Mk12. There are some KAC fanatics that are paying insane prices for Knights parts, like triple tap flash hider ($700) and the folding front sight gas block (FSGB) for $900, the latter being put on 11.5" KAC CQB rifle and also the USMC SAM-R. Insane. I have started to use the ARMS 41-B FSGB, which is a pretty good alternative to the KAC FSGB.
Another area in the minutia is the Norgon ambi bolt catch. Yeah, it is good, but $90 for a $12 part, that you can buy elsewhere for $20, or more functional clones for $35 ? Also, barrels. Personally, I think you need a Colt SOCOM barrel. They are not priced that bad, but it is under the rail, and nobody is going to see if you bought a DD or BCM. I think those guys have pretty good barrels. I did get into a discussion with a SWAT leader last week. He told me "no more DD or BCM" He ordered some barrels for his squad, and it had to be Colt. He said that Colt just shoots much straighter and more reliable. Okay. He wanted to FBI Hostage Squad 11.5" barrels. He said that BCM and DD just were not hitting the targets. First I have heard that with short barrels. I mean, at 10.3" or 11.5", most people are not looking for MOA accuracy, but he was.
Bottom line is, you can make some intelligent substitutes where needed. I would not substitute the rail or the receivers. The rail is the rail. If you are going a clone, don't make it a Walmart clone. It is either a nice guy that you like, or it is a clone. I cringe when I see people writing: "Mk12 inspired SPR" or "Mk18-ish SBR." Bullshit. Who the **** gave you the right to be an artist? Get the right rail. You can do it. Also, for the receiver, it has to be USGI stuff, like Colt, FN or sometimes LMT or KAC. Don't go cheap with an Anderson or Aero receiver. You can buy Colt. Now, you don't need to spend $1,000 for an M4A1 rollmarked lower, unless you want to. (it is pretty cool), but you can find an M4 lower, and even an M4 lower without a QR stamp for a little more money. Same with the upper. Look for the "C" or the "F" stamp. For the BUIS, get the right sights. It is not that hard to find KAC. If you don't want to spend $160 on the new KAC 600m rear sight, buy a real USMC rear sight for 1/2 that. New taupe is okay on the front. Old taupe is really cool, and harder to find, and much more expensive.
btw -- not meant to be an advertisement -- but if anyone is looking for parts, and is having a hard time, let me know. Building clones is my passion. I can direct you to a place you can buy, or I probably have in my basement. Right now, I have three or four DD RIS-II FDE FSPs. I won't break your bank. Also, the FSP is the really cool rail for Block 2. I like the flat top as well, but there is nothing quite like a Block 2 with a SOCOM barrel and an FSP.
Cheers, and I am here to help and participate and mostly, to learn.
just an update, got all the parts for the gun except the colt barrel which is on its way. then its on to optics. any suggestions? i looked at the eotech exps3-0 but with the recall thinking of avoiding the eotech.
I loved the Eotech on my work gun because they have a smaller dot that is still rapidly aquired and the frame doesn't seem to affect my field of view as much as the Aimpoint (Comp M2, I think I remember). If you want to be detail accurate, our block 2 Eotechs had the older type of 2x123 battery compartment. I think I remember them being tan.
An Aimpoint, Elcan, or ACOG is still a good choice if you don't want the Eotech. My second choice would be a Comp M4, even though the M2 would be more correct.
If you want to be detail accurate, our block 2 Eotechs had the older type of 2x123 battery compartment. I think I remember them being tan.
Not completely accurate. The single CR123 battery EOTechs are the current issue - IE, you are fine with either.
Rick
I just shot with 5th SFG and they all had tan EOTech's and a black FSP rail of some sort. I'm not familiar with those rails as I just had an M4 with KAC rail.
Not completely accurate. The single CR123 battery EOTechs are the current issue - IE, you are fine with either.
Rick
are they still issuing eotechs?
eotech no yes? are aimpoints issued? if so what configuration?
From my understanding, SOCOM never issued a replacement for the Eotechs. Aimpoint Comp M4 have been seen on some national guard ODA Block 2s from some pictures I've seen. Micros were in use by some Ranger guys in limited numbers from what I've read up on. I will always defer to the folks who are doing the good work and have first hand experience with the guns, so take this for what it's worth.
Not completely accurate. The single CR123 battery EOTechs are the current issue - IE, you are fine with either.
Rick
Thanks for the heads up.
Diamondback
09-23-17, 22:20
http://i.imgur.com/ayCBZ3F.png
Renegade, is the Excel spreadsheet your second screenie's from available anywhere? I've thought of building a similar Clone Cookbook and even proposed a community wiki, but no takers on the latter and found myself overwhelmed on the former.
just a quick update. the base gun is completed but i am putting it on hold for now until i get my sbr hk done.
https://thumb.ibb.co/hGvwqb/m4.jpg (https://ibb.co/hGvwqb)
Diamondback
10-07-17, 20:31
btw -- not meant to be an advertisement -- but if anyone is looking for parts, and is having a hard time, let me know. Building clones is my passion. I can direct you to a place you can buy, or I probably have in my basement. Right now, I have three or four DD RIS-II FDE FSPs. I won't break your bank. Also, the FSP is the really cool rail for Block 2. I like the flat top as well, but there is nothing quite like a Block 2 with a SOCOM barrel and an FSP.
Cheers, and I am here to help and participate and mostly, to learn.
Longshot, this isn't an Immediate Action potential but more a longer-term research question, but perchance do you have a line on an Vltor CASV-EL? (The carbine-length one with a continuous "backbone" rail and an FSP slot, not the ELS split-level that Vltor's clearancing now.)
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