View Full Version : Hurricane Harvey
Grand58742
08-27-17, 12:54
Hope any M4C members are safe and out of harm's way. This looks to get pretty bad in the coming days, not that it isn't bad enough already.
I'm on relatively (for Houston) high ground. Streets all around me are flooded and bayou behind me is within 2 feet of it's banks. I had to walk/wade through a little over a mile of water this morning after finding a suitable place to park my car after working all night downtown. Keeping my powder dry and hoping the the heavy rains don't come back too soon. Flight to Nashville this morning was obviously cancelled and not sure I even could've made it to the airport anyway.
If any of y'all are praying types, put in a word for us and a continuation of the break in the weather.
BuzzinSATX
08-27-17, 15:01
I'm on relatively (for Houston) high ground. Streets all around me are flooded and bayou behind me is within 2 feet of it's banks. I had to walk/wade through a little over a mile of water this morning after finding a suitable place to park my car after working all night downtown. Keeping my powder dry and hoping the the heavy rains don't come back too soon. Flight to Nashville this morning was obviously cancelled and not sure I even could've made it to the airport anyway.
If any of y'all are praying types, put in a word for us and a continuation of the break in the weather.
I'm just north of San Antonio, and I really feel for you folks out on the coast. We got some good rain and wind last couple days, but nothing compared to y'all. Been praying for y'all for a break. Hope you stay safe and dry...
Take care,
Grand58742
08-27-17, 15:17
Already one feel good story coming out.
https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/video/american-flag-recovered-from-harvey-debris
I bash the media plenty over the things they do, but to take the time to "rescue" that flag and properly fold it was pretty awesome.
Already one feel good story coming out.
https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/video/american-flag-recovered-from-harvey-debris
I bash the media plenty over the things they do, but to take the time to "rescue" that flag and properly fold it was pretty awesome.
That is outstanding! We need more people like that in this country.
Looks like the looters are already coming out. :jester:
https://www.rt.com/viral/401059-otis-hurricane-harvey-dog/
Storms can blow in strange occurrences and Hurricane Harvey appears to have had an odd impact on a Texas dog, who was spotted “evacuating” from his neighbourhood with a bag of treats.
As flash floods and 140mph winds wreaked chaos throughout the southern state on Saturday, one dog appears to have kept a cool head and taken advice from certain security warnings around the Gulf Coast.
Spotted by Tiele Dockens in Sinton, Texas, Otis the dog has now become a viral sensation thanks to a picture of him carrying dog food during a clean-up of the storm.
https://cdn.rt.com/files/2017.08/original/59a2808bdda4c8eb588b4567.jpg
I do wish that all those affected by this make it through safety. God speed.
Moose-Knuckle
08-28-17, 05:36
I seem to recall members brickboy240 and ForTehNguyen live in H-Town as well.
Hope all is well, I have a friend who's husband is with HPD who has been keeping updates coming in via social media.
Just cause . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC5H9P4F5Uk
I seem to recall members brickboy240 and ForTehNguyen live in H-Town as well.
Hope all is well, I have a friend who's husband is with HPD who has been keeping updates coming in via social media.
and Hizzie (paramedic and cop)
I have fam and friends down there, too...some I have heard from, some I have not.
Man, what a shit sandwich....
SeriousStudent
08-28-17, 20:19
As of late last night, I have a family friend bunking here at Rancho Serious for a bit. He was attending University of Houston working on a math degree.
Was.
Poor kid lost everything in his apartment, but was smart enough to have renter's insurance with flood coverage for an additional price.
Before all is said and done, I am betting on several hundred thousand people migrating out of the Texas coast. They are going to get a year's rainfall in 5-6 days.
m24shooter
08-28-17, 20:29
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/ee9bd9ac11e2ff6c7b193c4b5a09aba4.jpg
This is the megashelter in Dallas today. I deployed here to start setting up the clinic. I've been working one of the smaller shelter clinics since it opened for the last several days. We are expecting 5,000 here at this site. This is twice the size of the Katrina deployment and is the largest operation in Dallas history.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/6e4f38d1ed7e674b76a8463fb904b3c7.jpg
This was my niece's street in Dickinson Saturday morning, before the real rainfall came through. She made it to my sister's but both their cars are totaled.
SeriousStudent
08-28-17, 20:40
I heard Clay Jenkins talking about that shelter on the radio this morning. They predict it will be full soon, and they will likely need another.
Houston is the fourth-largest city in the US, and it is rapidly becoming a lake.
m24shooter
08-28-17, 20:50
I heard Clay Jenkins talking about that shelter on the radio this morning. They predict it will be full soon, and they will likely need another.
Houston is the fourth-largest city in the US, and it is rapidly becoming a lake.
There are four shelters currently in operation. One is 300, another is 250, and I think the third is smaller. The fourth one was just opened today for the first round of roof extractions that arrived late today. It will close down and they will move everyone from there to this one when it stands up tomorrow morning. They are expecting another 5,000 above the capacity of this shelter and they will be further distributed to other locations. The first two locations are staying open and probably the third.
After Katrina and Rita we were identified as the point of shelter for all areas along the coast. We took the lessons learned from that and have pretty much been the model for shelter and evac operations.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Moose-Knuckle
08-29-17, 05:11
I worked a Katrina and then a Rita shelter in '05 (DFW locations). This storm is way more destructive as it has sat on the region and dumped rain.
Our Louisiana neighbors have been in the Houston area in force via their Cajun Navy. Great bunch of outdoorsmen using their own fuel in their own trucks pulling their own boats to conduct water rescues. As of yesterday HPD reported 2,000 water rescues. A friend of mine in the TX National Guard was mobilized, Abbott is sending IIRC ALL of them to Houston and the Gulf Coast.
For people wanting to help, here is a great source with links:
Here Are Ways You Can Help People During Hurricane Harvey
http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/ways-can-help-people-hurricane-harvey/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Web+Social&utm_content=Harvey+Help
Some of the pics that have made social media over the last 24hrs . . .
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4431/36889572155_5de96af6cc_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4418/36889571815_05795f87a5_z.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/36493042240_8c669ab3af_z.jpg
Little guy fast asleep on his momma as an HPD SWAT officer carries them to safety after being rescued via boat.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4366/36889571695_3b6552f3e9_b.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4393/36889571875_d47f38e845_z.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/36889571925_aa6da37d2b_z.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4342/36889572045_e5a822a2bd_b.jpg
Yo, **** price gouging/profiteering. The good sheriff or fire marshal should shut those places down.
As said before I have friends/family there; Texas is good people, and I dig seeing neighbors helping neighbors. And a shout-out to the Cajun Navy for coming to help.
Moose-Knuckle
08-29-17, 05:48
It's illegal to price gouge, there is a hotline for people to report and call it in but with everything else going on . . .
This whole episode has been horrible. It most likely is going to be worse than Katrina and its aftermath. The Houston Mayor has been an incompetent ass.
This gives credence to sensible preparation. All your important documents, fresh water, Cash in hand, changes of clothes, and if it looks like you need to bug out, bug out early and often.
The standouts to me are Joel Osteen. His snake oil days are done. High, dry shelter and you're a rich "preacher" who doesn't let people in?
And the usual vermin who loot. Everything is waterlogged and useless.
It is inevitable, but this will eventually get politicised which will be horrible.
All I know is a lot of people are homeless now and it will take a while to rebuild.
A good lesson here is we are small beings and everything we have can be destroyed in a day. And yet still, people are still trying to save others.
But this is a good reality check. Is your Bug Out gear just for LARPing or is it something that is going to get you outta Dodge and be able to begin to rebuild in the aftermath or, if that is impossible, aid in starting life anew elsewhere?
How much gas do you keep in your car?
Where is your tank sitting right now?
How many counties can you put behind you without stopping?
Starkly relevant questions.
And some hard lessons to come.
Grand58742
08-29-17, 07:16
The Houston Mayor has been an incompetent ass.
I was actually surprised CNN called him out about why an evacuation wasn't ordered.
ETA: Link
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/us/houston-evacuation-hurricane-harvey/index.html
It's wonderful seeing people come together to help each OT her out. I read some of the Cajun Navy cane under fire by looters trying to take their boats. I hope both th Texas and Cajun boys and girls were smart enough to bring their own guns. I hope I'm right that the gas price photo looks fake/photoshopped.
Grand58742
08-29-17, 07:44
Yo, **** price gouging/profiteering. The good sheriff or fire marshal should shut those places down.
Actually, the consumers should. If I lived in that town, I'd make sure I never spent another dime in that store along with everyone else I knew.
I do recall a gas station in Colorado Springs going out of business not long after 9/11 for jacking the prices up to $7 a gallon on gas. The local residents remembered them being the only station doing so and imposed a boycott of it. It went out of business in about three months.
Actually, the consumers should. If I lived in that town, I'd make sure I never spent another dime in that store along with everyone else I knew.
I do recall a gas station in Colorado Springs going out of business not long after 9/11 for jacking the prices up to $7 a gallon on gas. The local residents remembered them being the only station doing so and imposed a boycott of it. It went out of business in about three months.
When Hurricane Fran came through my town there was one store open the day after, running on a couple generators. It was early September and hotter than hell--mid 90s--and they were selling ice for $10 a bag. The fire marshal came and shut them down. When they reopened they took a hit, but that place had been open since the 70s, and is still open.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4342/36889572045_e5a822a2bd_b.jpg
Fu&% I hate people
wildcard600
08-29-17, 08:38
My heart goes out to the people affected by the storm, but I have to shake my head and continue to wonder who's brilliant idea it is to continue to pave over wetlands and build in flood prone areas.
Hopefully this disaster will draw some attention to reforming the NFIP and stop rewarding bad development choices.
My heart goes out to the people affected by the storm, but I have to shake my head and continue to wonder who's brilliant idea it is to continue to pave over wetlands and build in flood prone areas.
Hopefully this disaster will draw some attention to reforming the NFIP and stop rewarding bad development choices.
Here's a good article about some of the issues with Houston and flooding:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-500-year-flood-why-houston-was-so-underprepared-for-harvey/ar-AAqQp7V?li=BBnb7Kz
1 in 500 odds are not bad. I think that they are trying to help the mayor not look so bad. Here is the real issue. He is a tool and did not prepare anything (not even a plan) when we have hurricane season every year. Let's put it into perspective; 1 in 500 chance that the city will be devastated. Or one in 25,827,165* chance of winning the TX Lotto. Look at how many people play those odds. This is just like NO in 2005, they blame Bush because the lib-tard mayor was incompetent. This time they are trying to sell the odds of this happening as unrealistic to prepare for. Since this is the third 500 year flood in three years you would thin that the odds may have changed........ To top it off they HAD to get a jab in on Trump.
This is not just me bashing on a Democrat. It is me bashing on a tool for being a tool and people trying to help him not look so much like a tool.
*The odds of winning Lotto Texas are one in 25,827,165.Aug 3, 2017
m24shooter
08-29-17, 11:33
What's interesting is that Dallas County has a plan for this. Odd to think Houston doesn't.
What's interesting is that Dallas County has a plan for this. Odd to think Houston doesn't.
So does Tarrant. That is my point exactly
Averageman
08-29-17, 11:40
Some areas are much better prepared than others in Houston.
There were some measures taken to move that water off of highways, golf courses and newer housing developments.
The Gorilla in the room is how do you take these kinds of steps in older properties and neighbourhoods ?
Frankly it's going to take a lot of money in raised taxes and a lot of changes in infrastructure.
The idea of ignoring all of that seems to be the hallmark of Democratic Mayor's in Houston.
They will however bitch if the Federal Relief money isn't in the bank by Friday.
m24shooter
08-29-17, 11:52
So does Tarrant. That is my point exactly
Yup. I've worked with some of those guys too.
OK, I will grant that Houston is in a bad situation, most of it due to poor leadership.
But... the small towns like Rockport (where the eye passed), Aransas Pass, Ingleside (all within a forty mile radius of where I live) suffered a lot of destruction. Aransas Pass is reporting that power and water may be restored in two months. Many buildings and homes were leveled in Rockport. Yeah, all little bergs with minor populations and of not much consequence. Unless you lived there. So, please spare a thought for those people who lost a lot if not all.
OK, I will grant that Houston is in a bad situation, most of it due to poor leadership.
But... the small towns like Rockport (where the eye passed), Aransas Pass, Ingleside (all within a forty mile radius of where I live) suffered a lot of destruction. Aransas Pass is reporting that power and water may be restored in two months. Many buildings and homes were leveled in Rockport. Yeah, all little bergs with minor populations and of not much consequence. Unless you lived there. So, please spare a thought for those people who lost a lot if not all.
I lived in Portland for a while, a great little town. We still keep in touch with friends there. Fortunately they are on a bluff so flooding was not too bad, but they did sustain a lot of wind damage.
First, No.6 and anyone else in affected areas, I hope y'all are doing well. I hope the fact that you're online indicates that you're home is not flooded and you've still got a roof over your head, electricity and running water. I've got several friends down in Corpus and they've all checked in that they are ok. I know that isn't the case for everyone in the area though.
As for me, the waters came real damn close to me but didn't make it inside the house. I'll post some pics in awhile. I live in the Meyerland area of SW Houston that has made the news with images of severe flooding several times since the Memorial Day flooding of 2015. There is a flood control bayou right behind my house that seems to be doing the job so far. Here in my backyard, as of 30 minutes ago, I've measured just under 31 inches of rainfall since Friday evening. Not as bad as some areas of the city but that is a considerable amount of rain. Well over half of what is the average annual for the area in a span of 3.5 days.
The problem as I see it is that Houston and it's so called leaders have severe myopia when it comes to planning for anything. This results in a lot of need for solutions that come only as an afterthought. The Houston Metro area needs some real engineers to come up with a flood control and drainage plan for the city. I'm not talking about the same level of engineers that come up with the freeway plans either... I mean the type of guys that got the astronauts of Apollo 13 safely back to Earth. Surely it will cost a chunk of change to come up with and implement a plan but I'd rather see my tax dollars spent on that than on building and maintaining stadiums for sports teams. Hell, the Astrodome is still standing and doesn't even really get used for anything. The engineers can start with the idea of digging a huge deep hole there and figuring a way to pump excess water out of it via pipeline all the way to the Gulf.
Outlander Systems
08-29-17, 14:42
The only impediment to that is money.
If we use the 11-Trillion Gallon estimate, it would cost, approximately $1,375,000,000,000 just for the main tunnel and the storage basin. That wouldn't factor in retrofitting the existing stormwater infrastructure. A somewhat Scientific-Wild-Assed-Guess would be roughly $15T to pull something like that off.
You would literally need to renovate the entire stormwater infrastructure of the city, as well as factoring in any adjacent storm runoff in the greater Houston area; in addtion, the stormwater capacity and flow rating of the individual pipe networks would have to be rated for a 1,000 year flood event.
The problem with massive infrastructure projects, and this country needs them, is that they are NOT cheap, and you can't buy votes with them.
An alternative to the above would have to be a long-term strategic plan through zoning regulations, requiring all new development to have a detention area sufficient for a 1000-year event. This would, unfortunately, push that cost back to the private property owner. As well, it would only work for mitigation through attrition; it would take 50 years or so of new development, and gentrification of older homes/businesses/etc. to come into full compliance. For instance, if LoboTBL's property required a 10,000-gallon storage capacity, and LoboTBL's neighbor has an old home, LoboTBL is now rat-****ed, and his tank would take the beating from his neighbor's lack thereof. So, now your on-site storage is being overwhelmed by your neighbor's 10,000 gallons with nowhere to go. And that's just one neighbor....
Atlanta has this problem, where developers come in and erect a 4,000 SF home on a lot where the previous house was 1,000 SF. Add in patios, and detached garages, along with bigger driveways, and the existing storm infrastructure gets overloaded Ricky Tick...just from normal rainfall amounts.
The engineers can start with the idea of digging a huge deep hole there and figuring a way to pump excess water out of it via pipeline all the way to the Gulf.
I lived in Portland for a while, a great little town. We still keep in touch with friends there. Fortunately they are on a bluff so flooding was not too bad, but they did sustain a lot of wind damage.
Portland was the first/last (depending which direction you were heading) cell tower working outside of Corpus Christi. People were having to drive there just to be able to talk to the outside world.
Outlander Systems
08-29-17, 15:07
That really sucks.
Portland was the first/last (depending which direction you were heading) cell tower working outside of Corpus Christi. People were having to drive there just to be able to talk to the outside world.
Portland was the first/last (depending which direction you were heading) cell tower working outside of Corpus Christi. People were having to drive there just to be able to talk to the outside world.
There were definitely people talking to the outside world without having to drive to that tower...amateur radio operators. I have friends in Port A, and it looks like a total loss for them. Thankfully, they didn't stick around for it.
First, No.6 and anyone else in affected areas, I hope y'all are doing well. I hope the fact that you're online indicates that you're home is not flooded and you've still got a roof over your head, electricity and running water. I've got several friends down in Corpus and they've all checked in that they are ok. I know that isn't the case for everyone in the area though.
Thanks. I'm online only by the grace of Honda. As in generator. Keeping my refrigerator and freezer running.
Know what you mean about the flooding. Last May I had the water lapping at my front steps, about 3~3.5 feet worth to the street. We suffer the same shortsightedness of city planners/leaders who see the big housing development as a revenue source in permits/fines and future tax base. As far the the "100/1000 year floods", why, they only come once in-a-while and beside they'll be out of office and retired before they reap what they implemented.
Outlander Systems
08-29-17, 15:21
LOL! I didn't want go there...buuuuuut, since ya did...
How are the repeaters holding up down there?
ETA: Interesting Interview regarding Amateur Radio and Harvey:
https://www.blubrry.com/arrlaudionews/26545782/arrl-audio-news-extra-edition/
There were definitely people talking to the outside world without having to drive to that tower...amateur radio operators. I have friends in Port A, and it looks like a total loss for them. Thankfully, they didn't stick around for it.
I'm online only by the grace of Honda. As in generator. Keeping my refrigerator and freezer running.
I'm glad you are doing alright down there. I haven't gotten a damage update from my friend in Corpus yet, but they didn't stick around either so at least they are safe.
LOL! I didn't want go there...buuuuuut, since ya did...
How are the repeaters holding up down there?
ETA: Interesting Interview regarding Amateur Radio and Harvey:
https://www.blubrry.com/arrlaudionews/26545782/arrl-audio-news-extra-edition/
I'm not sure, as I am in North Central Texas. But since No.6 has internet access, digital would be someone's access to anywhere with the proper equipment. HF is not great right now, so that's a bummer. I recently upgraded to General, and mobile/portable is where I want to go with it.
Outlander Systems
08-29-17, 16:30
Roger.
I wouldn't let the "band conditions" crowd bum you out. It's amazing how "band conditions" no matter how bad, magically improve during a contest. :p
Thanks. I'm online only by the grace of Honda. As in generator. Keeping my refrigerator and freezer running.
Know what you mean about the flooding. Last May I had the water lapping at my front steps, about 3~3.5 feet worth to the street. We suffer the same shortsightedness of city planners/leaders who see the big housing development as a revenue source in permits/fines and future tax base. As far the the "100/1000 year floods", why, they only come once in-a-while and beside they'll be out of office and retired before they reap what they implemented.
We suffer the same shortsightedness of city planners/leaders
My sister was the commercial city planner for a large metropolitan city. She spent the last several years upgrading the code. Trust me, the planners know about runoff issues, and try to address them, they don't have the final word in many cases.
Good city planners get their noses into a lot of stuff. My sister surprised me when she started quoting robbery statistics from chain pharmacies with point of sale visible from the street versus chain pharmacies with point of sales obscured to outside vision.
If businesses resist glassing the front because they want to merchandise that area in lieu of robbery prevention, what do you think they do when they have to provide containment for runoff on their property? It is often a battle between planners and elected officials who want to accommodate business.
Grand58742
08-29-17, 22:42
Dude ain't messing around and I love it.
https://www.facebook.com/jountay/posts/10156008363935663
Check this out. People are getting woke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxbQwRSleBQ
Moose-Knuckle
08-30-17, 05:25
I read some of the Cajun Navy cane under fire by looters trying to take their boats. I hope both th Texas and Cajun boys and girls were smart enough to bring their own guns.
I've been hearing reports of this as well.
During Katrina I had a cousin who went to NOLA to help out, he's a master electrician. His crew while up working on transmission lines were shot at by the bastards. The company who hired them also hired Blackwater to protect them and their highly valuable equipment.
Moose-Knuckle
08-30-17, 05:27
1 in 500 odds are not bad. I think that they are trying to help the mayor not look so bad. Here is the real issue. He is a tool and did not prepare anything (not even a plan) when we have hurricane season every year. Let's put it into perspective; 1 in 500 chance that the city will be devastated. Or one in 25,827,165* chance of winning the TX Lotto. Look at how many people play those odds. This is just like NO in 2005, they blame Bush because the lib-tard mayor was incompetent. This time they are trying to sell the odds of this happening as unrealistic to prepare for. Since this is the third 500 year flood in three years you would thin that the odds may have changed........ To top it off they HAD to get a jab in on Trump.
This is not just me bashing on a Democrat. It is me bashing on a tool for being a tool and people trying to help him not look so much like a tool.
*The odds of winning Lotto Texas are one in 25,827,165.Aug 3, 2017
All this AND the fact that Governor Abbott ordered a mandatory evacuation that the Democrat mayor of Houston told his citizens to disregard for fear of . . . wait for it . . . clogging the highways.
OK, I will grant that Houston is in a bad situation, most of it due to poor leadership.
But... the small towns like Rockport (where the eye passed), Aransas Pass, Ingleside (all within a forty mile radius of where I live) suffered a lot of destruction. Aransas Pass is reporting that power and water may be restored in two months. Many buildings and homes were leveled in Rockport. Yeah, all little bergs with minor populations and of not much consequence. Unless you lived there. So, please spare a thought for those people who lost a lot if not all.
This happens, the smaller communities don't get the reporting that the larger cities do, same happened during Katrina. All people saw on TV was NOLA, I have a former colleague who went to Gulfport, MS to help his parents. That place looked like Nagasaki after the bomb.
Glad your okay, if I'm not mistaken Corpus is the third busiest petro port in CONUS. I imagine USCG is in overdrive.
I've been hearing reports of this as well.
During Katrina I had a cousin who went to NOLA to help out, he's a master electrician. His crew while up working on transmission lines were shot at by the bastards. The company who hired them also hired Blackwater to protect them and their highly valuable equipment.
That's absolutely disgusting. I responded to an online add for contracting work. I was ready to take all of my vacation time from my PD and work for them. I never got a call back. The pay offered was unbelievable.
SilverBullet432
08-30-17, 06:51
Not sure how "real" this news is; but its not looking good for the Gulf..
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article170068517.html
Whiskey_Bravo
08-30-17, 07:14
Not sure how "real" this news is; but its not looking good for the Gulf..
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article170068517.html
Damnit, need that thing to take a hard turn east or something.
Grand58742
08-30-17, 07:19
Not sure how "real" this news is; but its not looking good for the Gulf..
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/news/weather/hurricane/article170068517.html
Here's the actual NHC forecast. They don't assign tracks to storms that haven't developed into at least a Tropical Storm:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/xgtwo/two_atl_0d0.png?301148
Having said that to say this, they are predicting that red X will become a Tropical Storm within 48 hours.
This happens, the smaller communities don't get the reporting that the larger cities do, same happened during Katrina. All people saw on TV was NOLA, I have a former colleague who went to Gulfport, MS to help his parents. That place looked like Nagasaki after the bomb.
I have family on the Gulf coast of Mississippi....Gulfport, Long Beach, Biloxi, Waveland, and Pass Christian. Yeah, NO got the press, but dollar-for-dollar, Mississippi had a harder time.
During Katrina I had a cousin who went to NOLA to help out, he's a master electrician. His crew while up working on transmission lines were shot at by the bastards. The company who hired them also hired Blackwater to protect them and their highly valuable equipment.
I was at Katrina, and I heard these stories, but of the ones I was told about there were no confirmations.
Yeah, Blackwater was there...so was Triple Canopy and a few others. Watching their pissing contests with one another and the local LE community was amusing.
I think with time a lot of stories about Katrina had grains of truth that now are legend. Mine was doing helo rescues, looking down in a street, and seeing a 10' bull shark swimming about. In reality, I don't know what kind of shark, and it was about 2-3 feet long.
I was at Katrina, and I heard these stories, but of the ones I was told about there were no confirmations.
Yeah, Blackwater was there...so was Triple Canopy and a few others. Watching their pissing contests with one another and the local LE community was amusing.
I think with time a lot of stories about Katrina had grains of truth that now are legend. Mine was doing helo rescues, looking down in a street, and seeing a 10' bull shark swimming about. In reality, I don't know what kind of shark, and it was about 2-3 feet long.
But they were there to take over the government working with FEMA to get people into death camps! I think that's what the tin foil types claimed if I have my tin foil hat narratives right.
All this AND the fact that Governor Abbott ordered a mandatory evacuation that the Democrat mayor of Houston told his citizens to disregard for fear of . . . wait for it . . . clogging the highways.
Folks are making hay over this, pitting the repubican governor against the dimocrat mayor. Whether the city had a plan is almost irrelevant if the surrounding communities and the state have no plan to receive folks evacuating.
If there is a plan, how many emegency response personnel, public works and highway personell or even citizrns know what it is? How many will even try to follow the plan? Ever witness a large dowtown office building conduct a fire drill? Now do it with an entire city. Think about the average rush hour in and around a large city, then put EVERYBODY into that mix. Instead of rescuing folks out of their homes, they'd be plucking them off the roofs of their cars, or worse.
I'd rather folks be honest about these things and just say... "ain't shit we can do, you're on your own, we'll see you on the other side of this and sort it all out..."
No, there just simply isn't a good solution to these "natural disasters", evacuate or don't evacuate the city is still under water, folks are still in need of shelter, drinking water and food.
Outlander Systems
08-30-17, 08:50
This is exactly what happened in ATL during Snowmageddons I & II.
Total, unmitigated, fustercluck. Evacuating a major metropolitan area is not an easy task, and can cause more problems than it solves.
Think about the average rush hour in and around a large city, then put EVERYBODY into that mix. Instead of rescuing folks out of their homes, they'd be plucking them off the roofs of their cars, or worse.
skywalkrNCSU
08-30-17, 08:54
This is exactly what happened in ATL during Snowmageddons I & II.
Total, unmitigated, fustercluck. Evacuating a major metropolitan area is not an easy task, and can cause more problems than it solves.
Especially when the highways are designed to be your drainage system and they will definitely flood
I have a former colleague who went to Gulfport, MS to help his parents. That place looked like Nagasaki after the bomb.
I flew into Gulfport a week after the airport opened. On approach, I saw blocks and blocks of concrete slabs... People literally lost everything.
Total, unmitigated, fustercluck. Evacuating a major metropolitan area is not an easy task, and can cause more problems than it solves.
This is what happened with Hurricane Rita. They were worried about a direct hit on Houston/Galveston. Evacuations were called for massive areas... It turned out to literally be a scene out of the doomsday movies. Cars ran out of gas on the freeway, after being stuck in traffic for 10+ hours. People sat in traffic for an entire day, and literally only moved a few miles. It was total gridlock. I flew over this mess too... There aren't words... EVERY artery leading out of town was solid gridlock.
Now, instead of being in their house where they can at least have a chance, they are stuck on the road.
http://alisonnissen.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/rita-evacuation.jpg
You just can't evacuate millions of people on short notice. It takes days of planning. With the unpredictability of gulf storms, many times, you don't have days as the storm track changes. The first time you evacuate the entire city of Houston and the storm misses, people will never leave again.
Outlander Systems
08-30-17, 09:13
Damn right, dude! They'd literally be driving into a watery grave.
Especially when the highways are designed to be your drainage system and they will definitely flood
Ike was the deal killer for me. That SOB took the roof off of my house. I lived in the Houston area all of my life and dealt with xx amount of named storms over the years, dealing with direct hits of anything from Cat 1-3 storms...
FYI, most if not all insurance policies have carve outs for tropical cyclones. Mine only picked up barely 50% of the cost.
F-that. Stick me with a fork, I'm done... We moved away from the area soon after. I will NEVER live within 100 miles of a coast again... EVER.
Good luck to all of my Texas brothers.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-30-17, 09:27
I flew into Gulfport a week after the airport opened. On approach, I saw blocks and blocks of concrete slabs... People literally lost everything.
And many of those slabs are still there.
Folks are making hay over this, pitting the repubican governor against the dimocrat mayor. Whether the city had a plan is almost irrelevant if the surrounding communities and the state have no plan to receive folks evacuating.
If there is a plan, how many emegency response personnel, public works and highway personell or even citizrns know what it is? How many will even try to follow the plan? Ever witness a large dowtown office building conduct a fire drill? Now do it with an entire city. Think about the average rush hour in and around a large city, then put EVERYBODY into that mix. Instead of rescuing folks out of their homes, they'd be plucking them off the roofs of their cars, or worse.
I'd rather folks be honest about these things and just say... "ain't shit we can do, you're on your own, we'll see you on the other side of this and sort it all out..."
No, there just simply isn't a good solution to these "natural disasters", evacuate or don't evacuate the city is still under water, folks are still in need of shelter, drinking water and food.
Yes, and no. Many cities and municipalities (and public works and utility companies) have plans. The reason we don't talk about some cities that are ravaged by hurricanes is because their plans work so we don't see these FUBARs live at 11.
Houston does not seem to have a plan (I bet they will now....). With all of those interstates, you make every single one outbound once the probability of a hit gets greater than .50.
Part of the problem with Houston is this things went from TD to Cat 4 in what, 3 days? Without a plan you are just playing catch-up at that point.
Yes, and no. Many cities and municipalities (and public works and utility companies) have plans. The reason we don't talk about some cities that are ravaged by hurricanes is because their plans work so we don't see these FUBARs live at 11.
Houston does not seem to have a plan (I bet they will now....). With all of those interstates, you make every single one outbound once the probability of a hit gets greater than .50.
Part of the problem with Houston is this things went from TD to Cat 4 in what, 3 days? Without a plan you are just playing catch-up at that point.
Not that I disagree with your overall assessment but when a storm goes from a cat 2-4 in a few days, and hits a metro area of millions, I'm skeptical any plan you had would make any difference. I can see attempting to evac a city that large with that short notice probably a bad idea. But having said that, having no plan (and I'm awaiting confirmation that's true...) is always a bad idea as having no plan is a plan to fail.
I think the usual lesson that will be learned here, as it was for Katrina, etc, people knew that if a storm of X magnitude hit at Y approach, etc, it would be a total cluster unless a huge amount of $ was spent to improve various things to avoid it, and they'd spend billions on a rare event where they'd rather spend it on current stuff, like the people who buy new TV for gratification now vs say store some supplies, ammo, etc on the off chance they may need it due to who knows what.
If they didn't learn from Katrina and make appropriate changes/upgrades, etc that would have greatly lessened the disaster that may ultimately costs more in the long run, they'll never learn is my guess. You have a 500:1 chance of X until your number comes up, and then it's a 1:1 chance and all the prior stats don't mean a damn thing.
You're on your own
No one really gives a shit about you
Plan accordingly
This is exactly what happened in ATL during Snowmageddons I & II.
Total, unmitigated, fustercluck. Evacuating a major metropolitan area is not an easy task, and can cause more problems than it solves.Spot on, Governor said go home and everyone did exactly that... Until they were stuck on the interstates and had to abandon their vehicles.
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Not that I disagree with your overall assessment but when a storm goes from a cat 2-4 in a few days, and hits a metro area of millions, I'm skeptical any plan you had would make any difference. I can see attempting to evac a city that large with that short notice probably a bad idea. But having said that, having no plan (and I'm awaiting confirmation that's true...) is always a bad idea as having no plan is a plan to fail.
I think the usual lesson that will be learned here, as it was for Katrina, etc, people knew that if a storm of X magnitude hit at Y approach, etc, it would be a total cluster unless a huge amount of $ was spent to improve various things to avoid it, and they'd spend billions on a rare event where they'd rather spend it on current stuff, like the people who buy new TV for gratification now vs say store some supplies, ammo, etc on the off chance they may need it due to who knows what.
If they didn't learn from Katrina and make appropriate changes/upgrades, etc that would have greatly lessened the disaster that may ultimately costs more in the long run, they'll never learn is my guess. You have a 500:1 chance of X until your number comes up, and then it's a 1:1 chance and all the prior stats don't mean a damn thing.
You're on your own
No one really gives a shit about you
Plan accordingly
With three days no plan would have been effective. Like I said, if you implemented a plan, you're playing catch-up.
The notion that during the storm .gov should be in the business of saving you is absurd; just about every emergency management agency or government I have heard speak has said "for the next 'n' hours/days, you are on your own." So you speak truth: "You're on your own...plan accordingly."
Yes, and no. Many cities and municipalities (and public works and utility companies) have plans. The reason we don't talk about some cities that are ravaged by hurricanes is because their plans work so we don't see these FUBARs live at 11.
Houston does not seem to have a plan (I bet they will now....). With all of those interstates, you make every single one outbound once the probability of a hit gets greater than .50.
Part of the problem with Houston is this things went from TD to Cat 4 in what, 3 days? Without a plan you are just playing catch-up at that point.
The problem is that American cities are engineered exclusively to flow high volume traffic IN, not out. No one is going to spend a trillion dollars for a 12-18 lane highway for a few hundred miles, just so it'll be there to use once in a decade or two.
If you're going to evac a city like Houston, it must be done in phases and be highly publicized. If you're in Zone X, proceed to Route B for evacuation on this date at this time. If you're not in Zone X, your access to Route B will be shut off until it's time for your zone to evac. Telling 6M residents to evac whenever they want is a recipe for disaster.
The problem is that American cities are engineered exclusively to flow high volume traffic IN, not out. No one is going to spend a trillion dollars for a 12-18 lane highway for a few hundred miles, just so it'll be there to use once in a decade or two.
If you're going to evac a city like Houston, it must be done in phases and be highly publicized. If you're in Zone X, proceed to Route B for evacuation on this date at this time. If you're not in Zone X, your access to Route B will be shut off until it's time for your zone to evac. Telling 6M residents to evac whenever they want is a recipe for disaster.
Cities that deal with hurricanes do shut down interstates. It's SOP in NC, SC, and parts of Florida. When it works it usually works very well. Spot on that Houston is a poop sandwich with trying to evac. But it could be done, if they wanted to plan for it.
Averageman
08-30-17, 12:13
If you.cannot be prudent enough to clear out when you need to, perhaps you shouldn't live that close to the coast?
Instead of interviewing the people who failed to get out of the way, perhaps the media should talk to the folks I have?
A Lady in the checkout line yesterday was from College Station, She came here to stay with her Daughter when the Governor said "get out of the path".
m24shooter
08-30-17, 12:22
Folks are making hay over this, pitting the repubican governor against the dimocrat mayor. Whether the city had a plan is almost irrelevant if the surrounding communities and the state have no plan to receive folks evacuating.
If there is a plan, how many emegency response personnel, public works and highway personell or even citizrns know
I can tell you with certainty Dallas has had a plan to evacuate Houston and it's surrounding areas, and has had it.
It started being put into action Thursday. It's been practiced several times since Katrina/Rita (which really started it), and it is known from municipal level to county to state and federal. Houston and Harris County know about it, and participated in an exercise last year.
If you.cannot be prudent enough to clear out when you need to, perhaps you shouldn't live that close to the coast?
I live inland now but was born and raised on the coast. I do not get the "ride it out" mentality. All of my family drives inland when there is a hurricane. I tell people you don't need an "end of the world" plan, but you do need a plan of some type.
If you're going to evac a city like Houston, it must be done in phases and be highly publicized. If you're in Zone X, proceed to Route B for evacuation on this date at this time. If you're not in Zone X, your access to Route B will be shut off until it's time for your zone to evac. Telling 6M residents to evac whenever they want is a recipe for disaster.
Houston's freeways have about the same flow rate both in and out of the city. But it really doesn't matter how big or how many of them there are. The thing is, many people have no idea how vast the Houston metropolitan area actually is. Consider this: The size of the Houston Metro area is a bit over 10K Square miles, yes 10,000, it's not a typo; with a population of nearly 6.5 million. That's roughly equivalent to the entire state of Massachusetts, in both area and population. I know it is hard to wrap your head around that but that is how big and populous the Houston area actually is. So imagine a storm that affects every square mile of Masschussets and also try to fathom the task of evacuating nearly every man, woman and child out of the state in a time frame of a month, much less a week or less. I don't really like to use the phrasing of absolutely impossible but I think it probably comes very close.
The other thing is that the Houston area has so many alternate routing possibilities because of the number of interconnected roadways that any evacuation plan by zone is also likely to fail. There are just too many alternate ways of getting to any given point in the area. Three interstates (45, 69, 10) pass through the center of Houston; there is the 610 loop that connects all three of those plus several US and State Highways not to mention several other key roadways: then there is the Sam Houston Tollway/Beltway 8 that does the same thing and picks up a few more key roadways as well; then there is the FM1960/Hwy 6 corridor that does the same thing; I almost forgot to mention the Grand Parkway/99 corridor.... There really isn't a way to shut off access to those routes that would work. People will just go the other way to bypass the shut off point to get to where they need to go.
Averageman
08-30-17, 14:04
I get that if everyone wanted to exit at the same time it would be an issue.
I've lived in Texas over 25 years now and I would guess 30 to 50 percent of the Houston population regularly decides to ride it out.
You can't fix that mindset even with an event like Katrina killing 1300 or so people.
So yes, the infrastructure has issues and it would take a lot of money to fix those issues, but how do you fix that mindset?
I think if people maintain a go bag, keep a case of water and necessities in their vehicles and leave when alerted a lot of this would fix itself.
BTW I understand 30% of those folks don't have flood insurance. We will likely bail them out.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-30-17, 18:21
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/30/arkema-ceo-no-way-to-potentially-stop-an-explosion.html
Looks like the chemical plant is going to pop off at some point in the next week. Due to the high water they have no way to keep the chemicals cool after they lost power and the backup generators were flooded. Looks like they transferred what they could into diesel powered refrigeration units and are monitoring remotely. Area above the plant has been declared a no fly zone and a 1.5 mile radius has been evacuated.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-30-17, 18:31
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/tropical-threat-to-track-across-atlantic-this-week-will-it-affect-the-us/70002598
Seriously. This thing needs to peter out.
m24shooter
08-30-17, 23:34
Cities that deal with hurricanes do shut down interstates. It's SOP in NC, SC, and parts of Florida. When it works it usually works very well. Spot on that Houston is a poop sandwich with trying to evac. But it could be done, if they wanted to plan for it.
The plan is there. Counter flow lanes, crossovers, markings, signage, and operating procedures are there. The plan is basically turn southbound lanes of IH45 into northbound to Dallas.
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-17, 05:00
Folks are making hay over this, pitting the repubican governor against the dimocrat mayor. Whether the city had a plan is almost irrelevant if the surrounding communities and the state have no plan to receive folks evacuating.
If there is a plan, how many emegency response personnel, public works and highway personell or even citizrns know what it is? How many will even try to follow the plan? Ever witness a large dowtown office building conduct a fire drill? Now do it with an entire city. Think about the average rush hour in and around a large city, then put EVERYBODY into that mix. Instead of rescuing folks out of their homes, they'd be plucking them off the roofs of their cars, or worse.
I'd rather folks be honest about these things and just say... "ain't shit we can do, you're on your own, we'll see you on the other side of this and sort it all out..."
No, there just simply isn't a good solution to these "natural disasters", evacuate or don't evacuate the city is still under water, folks are still in need of shelter, drinking water and food.
The governor gave the order, the mayor told everyone disregard. It's that simple.
People can drive in three different directions to get away from the storm on the gulf and the surge. Staying at hotels, relatives, friends, campsites, state parks, et al. anything is better than waiting 36hrs in a monsoon hoping a boat comes by or a helo flies over. It's not like hurricanes drop out of the clouds all of a sudden with no warning like a tornado.
Down on the gulf there are highway signs that look like this:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4338/36101536144_9fd072fb4a_k.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-17, 05:17
Heard via AM radio that the State's AG's office has many tips on price gougers. Also con-artists working people posing as building contractors, insurance agents, and even government officials. They have a percentage that they compare prices to three weeks ago, anything over that gets an inquiry.
Then there was this, Best Buy has found themselves in a PR nightmare . . .
Best Buy explains why it charged $42 for a case of water in Texas during the hurricane in 'a big mistake'
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-buy-explains-why-charged-194839322.html
Grand58742
08-31-17, 07:08
As sorry as I felt for the French magazine Charlie Hebdo after the terrorists attacks, at this point, **** those a-holes.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/31/french-magazine-charlie-hebdo-mocks-harvey-victims-as-neo-nazis.html
On its newest cover, controversial French magazine Charlie Hebdo appears to mock Texans, depicting them as neo-Nazis caught in the deluge of tropical storm Harvey.
The magazine’s cover reads “God Exists! He Drowned All the Neo-Nazis of Texas.” The words accompany an illustration showing swastika flags and arms raised in a Nazi salute -- all submerged in water, the New York Post reports.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIgmyEGUEAA-iEj.jpg
Next time those ****ers get attacked by some Islamic radical, they can look for sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
As sorry as I felt for the French magazine Charlie Hebdo after the terrorists attacks, at this point, **** those a-holes.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/31/french-magazine-charlie-hebdo-mocks-harvey-victims-as-neo-nazis.html
Next time those ****ers get attacked by some Islamic radical, they can look for sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
That's freaking disgusting. My brother-in-law's father fought in WWII, hates the French...says "we should have let Germany keep France. They deserved each other." I understand his sentiment. Every time I meet a Frenchman worth his/her salt, a dozen like this come along....
The governor gave the order, the mayor told everyone disregard. It's that simple.
People can drive in three different directions to get away from the storm on the gulf and the surge. Staying at hotels, relatives, friends, campsites, state parks, et al. anything is better than waiting 36hrs in a monsoon hoping a boat comes by or a helo flies over. It's not like hurricanes drop out of the clouds all of a sudden with no warning like a tornado.
Down on the gulf there are highway signs that look like this:
Republican governor vs. democrat mayor... leave vs. stay... folks obviously chose their "party" with their feet or asses.
Signs are great if folks actually paid attention to signs...
http://i.imgur.com/R9vi3yG.jpg
Averageman
08-31-17, 08:09
The Austin Sheriff "Sanctuary Sally" refused to allow her boats and water rescue team to assist Houston. She's claiming they didn't submit a proper request in writing and FEMA never called her.
She's a stickler for rules unless it concerns illegal aliens.
As sorry as I felt for the French magazine Charlie Hebdo after the terrorists attacks, at this point, **** those a-holes.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/31/french-magazine-charlie-hebdo-mocks-harvey-victims-as-neo-nazis.html
Next time those ****ers get attacked by some Islamic radical, they can look for sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
Typical liberal assholes. Much like the Florida professor these morons don't get that Houston and Harris county are staunch DNC voters. They can lick my ass gravy for all I care.
The Austin Sheriff "Sanctuary Sally" refused to allow her boats and water rescue team to assist Houston. She's claiming they didn't submit a proper request in writing and FEMA never called her.
She's a stickler for rules unless it concerns illegal aliens.
Guess if I ever see her stranded on the side of the road I'll make sure she has her TPS forms filled out in triplicate before I render aid.
The Austin Sheriff "Sanctuary Sally" refused to allow her boats and water rescue team to assist Houston. She's claiming they didn't submit a proper request in writing and FEMA never called her. She's a stickler for rules unless it concerns illegal aliens.
Yeah, saw that in the news this morning. Way to go Sally, showing your true colors!
The guys at Ranger-Up are doing a T-Shirt drive to fund some charities.
https://www.humanizingthebadge.com/collections/apparel/products/texas-strong-tee?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+We+Are+All+Texas&utm_content=Support+Houston.&utm_campaign=We+Are+All+Texas&_bta_tid=26695260035476382509596801155420816403548173026970848357496941194937995521252041110908343129538178561090
The guys at Ranger-Up are doing a T-Shirt drive to fund some charities.
https://www.humanizingthebadge.com/collections/apparel/products/texas-strong-tee?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+We+Are+All+Texas&utm_content=Support+Houston.&utm_campaign=We+Are+All+Texas&_bta_tid=26695260035476382509596801155420816403548173026970848357496941194937995521252041110908343129538178561090
Ranger-up is good people in my experience. Awesome shirts too. Wearing one of theirs now.
The guys at Ranger-Up are doing a T-Shirt drive to fund some charities.
https://www.humanizingthebadge.com/collections/apparel/products/texas-strong-tee?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+We+Are+All+Texas&utm_content=Support+Houston.&utm_campaign=We+Are+All+Texas&_bta_tid=26695260035476382509596801155420816403548173026970848357496941194937995521252041110908343129538178561090
Awesome guys. And about 15 minutes from me.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-31-17, 14:17
Anyone else in North Texas dealing with this. Just went by 4 gas stations that were empty and a Kroger than probably had 75 people in line waiting for fuel. I knew Harvey was going to cause shortages and a price increase but this is nuts. Just wondering how widespread this is up here and if it's happening anywhere else in Texas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/harvey/2017/08/31/north-texas-drivers-need-know-spreading-gas-shortages
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2017/08/dallas-running-low-on-gas-because-of-harvey/
My nephew's wife texted me, said gas in Dallas went up .70 cents since yesterday and she went by three closed stations. Here in our little slice of Americana in NC it's gone up .25-.50 today, news is saying expects outages and lines.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-31-17, 14:28
My nephew's wife texted me, said gas in Dallas went up .70 cents since yesterday and she went by three closed stations. Here in our little slice of Americana in NC it's gone up .25-.50 today, news is saying expects outages and lines.
The Colonial gas pipeline is shut down until at least Sunday so inspections and any needed repairs can happen. It moves about 40% of all fuel for the south and runs all the way to New York from Houston. So it looks like everyone in the South at least is going to see the affects of this. Seems to be hitting DFW fairly hard.
I have heard about long lines and stations out of fuel as far out of town as Decatur.
Top off the tank is Austin this afternoon. Busy, but no long lines. Only up about 0.20 per.
Hopefully, the initial scare passes quickly without too many issues. It will be magnified along interstates and major US highways.
Seems like there might be lesson here about free market vs "anti gouging"...
Outlander Systems
08-31-17, 14:40
Christi Craddick says there's no shortage, so y'all must be hallucinating.
https://twitter.com/ChristiCraddick/status/903289817047461888
Whiskey_Bravo
08-31-17, 15:09
Christi Craddick says there's no shortage, so y'all must be hallucinating.
https://twitter.com/ChristiCraddick/status/903289817047461888
lol, well good thing she said there wasn't an issue. Now if should could just start directing people to stations that actually have fuel that would be great.
Outlander Systems
08-31-17, 15:32
LOL!
I saw that tweet and thought about you fellas.
I'm going with your word over hers...
lol, well good thing she said there wasn't an issue. Now if should could just start directing people to stations that actually have fuel that would be great.
ramairthree
08-31-17, 15:41
I usually have 10+ gallons of diesel on hand and about 25 of gas. And a spare propane tank or two.
I keep meaning to get a switch for the part of the house with the kitchen and well and septic pump put in so I can hook the generator into it. Right now I have to run cords to it.
Now, after going through that, I would be hosed like everyone else.
skywalkrNCSU
08-31-17, 16:18
There are lines down here in SATX but I have heard you can still find gas. Might make for a pretty boring Labor Day weekend otherwise because I'm getting to the wrong side of half full.
titsonritz
08-31-17, 16:29
As sorry as I felt for the French magazine Charlie Hebdo after the terrorists attacks, at this point, **** those a-holes.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/31/french-magazine-charlie-hebdo-mocks-harvey-victims-as-neo-nazis.html
Next time those ****ers get attacked by some Islamic radical, they can look for sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
I won't shed one tears if these assholes get shot up again.
BuzzinSATX
08-31-17, 16:31
I just topped off outside of Randolph AFB in Universal City. There were lines at every station between the base and my home 15 miles away.
We were warned of impending shortages and lines.
skywalkrNCSU
08-31-17, 16:36
There should be plenty of gas but this is one of those self fulfilling prophecies. People hear there is a gas shortage so they rush out to fill up. Other people do the same and a few stations run out. People see that and panic and it gets worse and worse. If everyone just remained calm and only filled up when they need to, like normal, it probably wouldn't even be a big deal.
The supply is fine for normal usage, people are the issue. When people think there is going to be a disruption and/or price increase and /or supply issue they all fill up at once. That can eliminate the supply in one area in one day very easily. Most gas stations have a delivery schedule based on regular daily demand every week. When demand changes abruptly they cannot adjust within the same week and it may take a week or two to get back to normal.
For example, my gas station (QT) gets 4 deliveries a week. If everyone or significantly more than normal amount of people fill up on the same day (i.e. Atlanta ice or snow), they run out for a day or two during the prep week.
This is the same for Ammo and Firearms (AR's) when a perceived shortage seen on the horizon.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-31-17, 17:08
When it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter if there is an actual shortage or a panic induced shortage. If stations either don't have it or have 30 minute lines it's a shortage no matter the reason. And fuel isn't something that is as easy to mitigate risk like firearms which you can just buy before a panic. Fuel goes bad, and most people dont have the ability to store a couple hundred gallons are a residential home.
I'm with Ramair... Except 25 gal of Diedel (2 diesel vehicles) and 20 gallons of gas (5 gals is 2 stroke though)
What royally pisses me off is the jackasses who have to show up with gas cans instead of just filling up their vehicles and moving on. I'd like to bash them in the head with their gas cans! It never fails: TN is a helluva long way from TX but these idiots will do their best to make damned sure that gas runs out. The gas station I usually use is out in the country, nowhere near an interstate. But nope, it doesn't matter, these jackasses will be there with gas cans galore and soon the station will be empty.
(wife and I are in FL for a few days and filled up our vehicles before we left yesterday, knowing full well the tom-foolery that would take place while we were gone.....and no, I didn't fill gas cans!)
Nothing here in SEPa except gas did jump 70 cents or more, depending on the station, in the last few days.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
No issues North of McKinney.
Most stations that ran out will be re-filled overnight. Hopefully all the sheeple topped off today and things will be back to normal this weekend.
When it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter if there is an actual shortage or a panic induced shortage. If stations either don't have it or have 30 minute lines it's a shortage no matter the reason.
It does matter. An actual shortage can last weeks or months, a panic shortage is usually solved in a couple of days. Also a panic shortage is often a regional issue. See above post, no issues near me though places 30 miles south are all out.
What we are experiencing in NTX is not a shortage, but a run - Folks are buying faster then stations can be re-filled. This will be solved quickly as their is plenty of supply, probably overnight.
Tons of lines. The empty stations have the bags over the handles. So I pulled into my local Tom Thumb to check the lines for gas. It is empty with a sign, No GAS, only Diesel. So I figured what the heck. Might as well top off the truck. While I am there filling up 6 cars come speeding in when they see me. 3 of them just drive off. 2 stop and get out to see bags over the handles of the gas ones and drive off. Then it gets good. A hipster in a Fiat pull in and then get out. Sees the bag and then proceeded to tell me that it is people like me and my F250 that caused this problem. Then be said what right do I have to take all of the gas. At that time the pump clicked off. I told him that this pump still had plenty of fuel in it. Well it did have FUEL. So he got all pissy and got in his car and pulled into my spot after I pulled out. I had to circle around and watch this SH#$ show. He had some issues getting the FUEL in his car but he managed to do it. LOL.
I then drove past and said good luck to him and he flipped me off and said F You. I laughed all the way home. I am wondering how far he will make it. Karma is a Bitch.
RobertTheTexan
08-31-17, 20:10
Tons of lines. The empty stations have the bags over the handles. So I pulled into my local Tom Thumb to check the lines for gas. It is empty with a sign, No GAS, only Diesel. So I figured what the heck. Might as well top off the truck. While I am there filling up 6 cars come speeding in when they see me. 3 of them just drive off. 2 stop and get out to see bags over the handles of the gas ones and drive off. Then it gets good. A hipster in a Fiat pull in and then get out. Sees the bag and then proceeded to tell me that it is people like me and my F250 that caused this problem. Then be said what right do I have to take all of the gas. At that time the pump clicked off. I told him that this pump still had plenty of fuel in it. Well it did have FUEL. So he got all pissy and got in his car and pulled into my spot after I pulled out. I had to circle around and watch this SH#$ show. He had some issues getting the FUEL in his car but he managed to do it. LOL.
I then drove past and said good luck to him and he flipped me off and said F You. I laughed all the way home. I am wondering how far he will make it. Karma is a Bitch.
:agree:
Only you amigo... only you. :lol: I would have paid money to see that!
hipster in a Fiat pull in and then get out. Sees the bag and then proceeded to tell me that it is people like me and my F250 that caused this problem. Then be said what right do I have to take all of the gas. At that time the pump clicked off. I told him that this pump still had plenty of fuel in it. Well it did have FUEL. So he got all pissy and got in his car and pulled into my spot after I pulled out. I had to circle around and watch this SH#$ show. He had some issues getting the FUEL in his car but he managed to do it. LOL.
I then drove past and said good luck to him and he flipped me off and said F You. I laughed all the way home. I am wondering how far he will make it. Karma is a Bitch.
That is freaking awesome! He actually got diesel into his tank even though the nozzle wouldn't fit? LOL! Moron.
Leaveammoforme
08-31-17, 20:21
Tons of lines. The empty stations have the bags over the handles. So I pulled into my local Tom Thumb to check the lines for gas. It is empty with a sign, No GAS, only Diesel. So I figured what the heck. Might as well top off the truck. While I am there filling up 6 cars come speeding in when they see me. 3 of them just drive off. 2 stop and get out to see bags over the handles of the gas ones and drive off. Then it gets good. A hipster in a Fiat pull in and then get out. Sees the bag and then proceeded to tell me that it is people like me and my F250 that caused this problem. Then be said what right do I have to take all of the gas. At that time the pump clicked off. I told him that this pump still had plenty of fuel in it. Well it did have FUEL. So he got all pissy and got in his car and pulled into my spot after I pulled out. I had to circle around and watch this SH#$ show. He had some issues getting the FUEL in his car but he managed to do it. LOL.
I then drove past and said good luck to him and he flipped me off and said F You. I laughed all the way home. I am wondering how far he will make it. Karma is a Bitch.
Instant classic. Well done.
#brokedownFiatonDentonsquare
I couldn't even park on the property at my normal place. But hey, Copenhagen is worth a little walk. Struted with complete arrogance through the cluster of vehicles enjoying the faces of despair, anguish and anger along the way.
Retrieved my Vitamin Water, DP and Cope from the bowels of a melting down society. Enjoyed a quick laugh with the clerk and headed back to the pick up.
100% self inflicted mayhem.
Outlander Systems
08-31-17, 20:55
Leaveammoforme, if it was Long Cut Straight you my Texas brotha from anotha motha!
DocSherm, I like your style man. Kill 'em with kindness, bruh.
SeriousStudent
08-31-17, 21:41
Tons of lines. The empty stations have the bags over the handles. So I pulled into my local Tom Thumb to check the lines for gas. It is empty with a sign, No GAS, only Diesel. So I figured what the heck. Might as well top off the truck. While I am there filling up 6 cars come speeding in when they see me. 3 of them just drive off. 2 stop and get out to see bags over the handles of the gas ones and drive off. Then it gets good. A hipster in a Fiat pull in and then get out. Sees the bag and then proceeded to tell me that it is people like me and my F250 that caused this problem. Then be said what right do I have to take all of the gas. At that time the pump clicked off. I told him that this pump still had plenty of fuel in it. Well it did have FUEL. So he got all pissy and got in his car and pulled into my spot after I pulled out. I had to circle around and watch this SH#$ show. He had some issues getting the FUEL in his car but he managed to do it. LOL.
I then drove past and said good luck to him and he flipped me off and said F You. I laughed all the way home. I am wondering how far he will make it. Karma is a Bitch.
Epic post.
And I doubt he'll be able to make it to the local bar he's ruined with all his capri wearing, Pabst Blue Ribbon swilling friends.
Whiskey_Bravo
08-31-17, 21:47
Lol, diesel in the fiat. That would have been fun to watch.
RobertTheTexan
08-31-17, 21:52
Epic post.
And I doubt he'll be able to make it to the local bar he's ruined with all his capri wearing, Pabst Blue Ribbon swilling friends.
Fuel system and fuel tank purge: $800
Watching a snowflake pump diesel into his snowflake Fiat? PRICELESS.
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Tons of lines. The empty stations have the bags over the handles. So I pulled into my local Tom Thumb to check the lines for gas. It is empty with a sign, No GAS, only Diesel. So I figured what the heck. Might as well top off the truck. While I am there filling up 6 cars come speeding in when they see me. 3 of them just drive off. 2 stop and get out to see bags over the handles of the gas ones and drive off. Then it gets good. A hipster in a Fiat pull in and then get out. Sees the bag and then proceeded to tell me that it is people like me and my F250 that caused this problem. Then be said what right do I have to take all of the gas. At that time the pump clicked off. I told him that this pump still had plenty of fuel in it. Well it did have FUEL. So he got all pissy and got in his car and pulled into my spot after I pulled out. I had to circle around and watch this SH#$ show. He had some issues getting the FUEL in his car but he managed to do it. LOL.
I then drove past and said good luck to him and he flipped me off and said F You. I laughed all the way home. I am wondering how far he will make it. Karma is a Bitch.Don't those pumps have big white letters DIESEL and typically painted green!?!?!
If he can't read that ...AND....see that the nozzle doesn't fit he deserves it
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Leaveammoforme
09-01-17, 03:01
Leaveammoforme, if it was Long Cut Straight you my Texas brotha from anotha motha!
DocSherm, I like your style man. Kill 'em with kindness, bruh.
Copenhagen Straight came along after the Copenhagen/Skoal merger. We (The Legion of Texan Copenhagen Connoisseurs) refer to the Straight flavor as "Cheerleader dip". Sorry... it's for girls. :(
Hope all our folks down around Houston are safe. Talked to my wife about heading down this weekend but it seems additional "help" is pushing the teeter closer towards "just another liability to strain the system" at this point.
Don't those pumps have big white letters DIESEL and typically painted green!?!?!
If he can't read that ...AND....see that the nozzle doesn't fit he deserves it
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Yes. We had a salesman who worked for us whose nickname was Diesel because he pumped a rental car full of diesel fuel and killed it. It takes a lot of effort to do something that stupid.
Moose-Knuckle
09-01-17, 05:59
What royally pisses me off is the jackasses who have to show up with gas cans instead of just filling up their vehicles and moving on. I'd like to bash them in the head with their gas cans!
I used the Gas Buddy locator app to score a station close by at 02:00 this morning, even at that time there were one person at each pump of a LARGE Race Trak. They only had $3.15 premium on hand. I got more than few looks from people when I opened my tailgate and retrieved my NATO Jerry cans . . . one poor guy was filling up a bunch of those little CA compliant red plastic POS's.
:lol:
My truck was north of 3/4's but I topped that off too. I don't believe there is an actual shortage but the panic has caused there to be one. I do not keep gas on hand as I don't have the proper storage space for it so I always have empty Jerry cans at the ready. I waited for the lines to die down, the rat racers to be tucked in their little beddies, and the tankers to make their deliveries and scored.
I've never seen gas station after gas station with out gas before. Saw some lines on 9/11, but not like now.
This is the Costco at I35E and TX121 yesterday afternoon (DFW):
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4436/36785469912_e61a07892a_b.jpg
And this is what every station looked like even at 0' dark-thrity this morning, mom & pop stations and the big national chains alike . . .
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4425/36769251656_58f6b6e215_b.jpg
Sista gurl say "dey 'bout to declare martial law y'all", "he got a real ass shotgun", "dey not playin' out here", "there is no law", "it is not a game", "the ayrab sto is outa here y'all", "my hubband is about to get somebody head blowed off".
She is hilarious.
http://content.jwplatform.com/previews/nQyo61LA-OwlNfjNX
Outlander Systems
09-01-17, 07:34
That dude is my new hero.
Sista gurl say "dey 'bout to declare martial law y'all", "he got a real ass shotgun", "dey not playin' out here", "there is no law", "it is not a game", "the ayrab sto is outa here y'all", "my hubband is about to get somebody head blowed off".
She is hilarious.
http://content.jwplatform.com/previews/nQyo61LA-OwlNfjNX
skywalkrNCSU
09-01-17, 15:33
If you order anything from Yeti.com today all of the sales proceeds go to hurricane relief. Not just profits. It was the excuse I needed to grab a new cooler.
Grand58742
09-02-17, 04:53
Having gone through cancer surgery myself, this guy is straight hero clanging when he walks.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/09/01/houston-police-officer-battling-cancer-braves-floodwaters-to-rescue-residents.html
A Houston police officer battling stage 4 metastatic colon cancer has helped to rescue hundreds from the floodwaters left behind by historic storm Harvey.
Norbert Ramon, who has been with the Houston Police Department’s Traffic Enforcement division for 24 years, received the call from his sergeant as the rain started to fall on Saturday.
Cindy said Ramon’s cancer quickly became the furthest thing from his mind. He was put on desk duty three weeks ago out of concern for his health, but as a part of the Lake Patrol he has had a hand in helping to rescue 1,500 residents from floodwaters.
“He’s been so caught up in the emotions and the excitement of trying to rescue people, he had no time to even think about it,” Cindy said. “You wouldn’t even think he had cancer, he’s plugging along like he doesn’t.”
Moose-Knuckle
09-02-17, 05:39
Well day two of stations with out petrol . . .
Wife had to go into the office a couple of times this week and she was down to half a tank. So I filled her's up with my Jerry can score and found another station that just got a truck via gasbuddy. This time it was a QT and they only had regular and not a drop of diesel. Topped my truck off, again and filled up some more Jerry cans for the week(s) ahead. Had to even pick up some more Sta-bil.
I think a big part of the "panic" is it's Labor Day weekend, typically the last hurrah of summer for most folks as the school year begins and right before fall and the holiday season. IIRC it's the second most traveled holiday weekend behind the 4th of July.
skywalkrNCSU
09-02-17, 06:40
And people topping off when they normally wouldn't while also filling up gas cans ;)
Averageman
09-02-17, 08:22
I live South of Waco and north of Austin.
Long lines when I filled up yesterday. I'm not sure what's got people worried but they all want to top off.
I'm guessing these are the same folks that travel with zero water, no first aid kit or training and no go bag.
So their total well being revolves around having an ATM card,.....well and gas, lots of gas.
There should be plenty of gas but this is one of those self fulfilling prophecies. People hear there is a gas shortage so they rush out to fill up. Other people do the same and a few stations run out. People see that and panic and it gets worse and worse. If everyone just remained calm and only filled up when they need to, like normal, it probably wouldn't even be a big deal.
Very clear you don't understand how the pipelines and tank farms work.
A run on fuel does shorten the time before they run out, but the fact is that large metro areas like Atlanta burn X fuel per day and count on pipelines to replace X plus seasonality per day. And when the pipelines stop, they will run out as the tank farms typically only have 3 to 5X of capacity.
We see this even with less catastrophic pipeline problems. (Recent fire S of B'ham)
Typical hurricane stoppage is 2-5 weeks. The fire was almost 2 wks. Many delays in reopening due to inspections, Etc.
It's very hard to replace the pipeline capacity with fuel from other ports just due to reduced availability now of alternate transport. (Trucks and trains)
The South East Coast knows it needs an additional pipeline from Jacksonville and Savannah into the north Georgia, Western NC, Etc area. Hard to sell, harder yet to get approved and build.
Likewise, very hard and financially unlikely to increase tank farm capacity, though I've heard it's improved some in Atlanta.
Runs are spikes... There is just not enough consumer capacity (top off their tanks plus a handful of Jerry jugs) to create a long term issue. Call it 2X normal run rate, and that's probably high.
Pipeline shutdown is a 14-30X problem. Yes, runs negatively impact the time until distro (not local stations) is out, but still is a small effect.
That fiat has a 10g tank. Normal cars maybe 15-20. Just not enough to create the problem, but can speed up when it happens.
There should be plenty of gas but this is one of those self fulfilling prophecies. People hear there is a gas shortage so they rush out to fill up. Other people do the same and a few stations run out. People see that and panic and it gets worse and worse. If everyone just remained calm and only filled up when they need to, like normal, it probably wouldn't even be a big deal.
Pretty much what has happened. There is plenty of fuel. There was a 2-day run on the pumps due to rumors circulating on internet. Today every station in my NTX AO was open, had fuel, and had little or no customers.
And people topping off when they normally wouldn't while also filling up gas cans ;)
You know, I like Moose-Knuckle but can we all throw an internet gas can at him? :p
It was you who mentioned a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yep, it sure is. I've seen it more than once unfortunately. My wife and I have a 74 mile round-trip to work (we work at the same place but she works nights, I work days). When the madness starts if we do NOT do as the Romans we will not make it to work for a full week. I refuse to fill gas cans (just a little pet-peeve) but we have three vehicles and will top all of them off. So yeah, it is a snowball-effect, self-fulfilling prophecy but for us is a realistic need, not "just to be on the safe side".
RobertTheTexan
09-02-17, 22:26
I live South of Waco and north of Austin.
Long lines when I filled up yesterday. I'm not sure what's got people worried but they all want to top off.
I'm guessing these are the same folks that travel with zero water, no first aid kit or training and no go bag.
So their total well being revolves around having an ATM card,.....well and gas, lots of gas.
I live south of Waco and north of Austin and while I saw pretty full pumps at a new WallyWorld, there weren't lines.
A friend and I took two pallets of water down to a small town near Katy? Before we even got within 2 hours of our destination we saw the Love's and a couple other places out of diesel. We were topped off before we left though. But back in my AO, I'm not seeing a lot of madness but I wasn't in town today.
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RobertTheTexan
09-02-17, 22:31
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170903/7daf13e8744b1858636f76a932ec3bfc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170903/58bd03fc460af3d69bc17d6e5c8a9588.jpg
Water in one of the AO's we were at. It was tough looking at so many homes with many of their belongings piled up in a pile of trash in their front yard and seeing homes with the sheetrock, insulation and flooring ripped out, piled in the yard.
I have to work this week, but I'm really hoping to go back down Friday & Saturday to help in whatever way I can.
Two pallets of water doesn't last very long and it's not a whole lot. Seems like it st first, but not when compared to the need. Hopefully it helps some. I have a friend who has a good heart and buying something like this and is driving it down is what he feels a responsibility to. (Just to make that clear)
We also received a 26' truck that came all the way from Phoenix, AZ. Unloaded it, sorted it then reloaded 1/2 of everything and moved it to another drop. It was a busy afternoon.
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Moose-Knuckle
09-03-17, 05:58
And people topping off when they normally wouldn't while also filling up gas cans ;)
Scout's honor here, I never let my truck go below 3/4's of a tank unless I'm on an extended road trip (which is rare). I stay "topped off" all the time not just during periods of runs and shortages as a result of weather.
You know, I like Moose-Knuckle but can we all throw an internet gas can at him? :p
So long as it is a real deal NATO Jerry can or the pre Scepter DoD Jerry cans! :cool:
"Officially" there is not a"shortage" but today was day three of no petrol in most stations in my area of Collin county. In my almost forty years I have never seen station after station dry, not once. So like with the great .22lr shortage of 2013-2015 I set out at 0'dark-thirty and made easy scores. No lines, no fuss, etc. My kiddo is only a toddler now but I have enough .22lr pills for the great-grand children to use up in their pea shooters, no I never flipped any ammo at a gun show or on an EE.
I've read/heard so many things from "officials" on this and they can say what they will but there IS a shortage in some areas, whether it was caused by panic or the storm is inconsequential to me. If there was an "official shortage" it's not like they would come out with it and cause even more of a panic. I told my wife it will get bad if we see rationing so that fuel can go to critical infrastructure PD/FD/EMT and commercial carriers that haul food from distribution centers.
When it is all said and done I think we'll see some stats that will show that shutting down the pipeline(s) and refineries DID in fact effect the availability of gasoline as pinzgauer posted above.
Moose-Knuckle
09-03-17, 06:08
A friend and I took two pallets of water down to a small town near Katy?
Kudos for you and your friend for doing that. I have buddy who drove down a similar looking truck like that filled with cases of bottled water from OK the other day. A former colleague of mine sent out a 911 via social media and took up a collection of items that the Houston Police Assoc. specifically asked for. After filling a trailer he took it down there to them, one of the most requested items was socks and underwear. Most of those guys and gals didn't get to go home for four, five, and six days some didn't have a home to back to so the new clean dry socks and underwear really made the difference for those that had been working non-stop since the storm hit (with only short power naps here and there).
A friend of mine who's husband is with HPD finally was able to come home after a week and now they're on 12 hour shifts 7 days a week till further notice.
During such calamities one has to find some humor in it all, saw this on FB tonight and :lol: . . .
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4404/36809035556_ffde58d184_z.jpg
RobertTheTexan
09-03-17, 09:21
During such calamities one has to find some humor in it all, saw this on FB tonight and :lol: . . .
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4404/36809035556_ffde58d184_z.jpg
That picture is definitely Texas. Well excluding Austin. I think they eat tofu in Austin. :lol:
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SeriousStudent
09-03-17, 09:59
I saw the same pic with a different caption.
Hurricane Harvey to Houston: "You'll eat vegan or starve!"
Houston (Takes a big swig of whiskey): "We'll see you in Hell."
I saw the same pic with a different caption.
Hurricane Harvey to Houston: "You'll eat vegan or starve!"
Houston (Takes a big swig of whiskey): "We'll see you in Hell."
I saw that one also. Epic Texas maim....... And it is mostly true. :)
SeriousStudent
09-03-17, 10:35
Yep, my first thought was "Well, duh!"
I have eaten bugs, snakes, monkeys, worms and roasted dog. But I'd have to be awfully hungry to eat that crap.
This is making the rounds under the anti LE bashing hobby of some. LEO is on them for operating such unregistered, un insured, ec vehicles, not Not sure what the LEO means by "we have had enough". Had enough help from people spending their time and $ to help where they could? No doubt the LEO is tired and frustrated but could have handled that way better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=jGa5-Vj-QeA
Yep, my first thought was "Well, duh!"
I have eaten bugs, snakes, monkeys, worms and roasted dog. But I'd have to be awfully hungry to eat that crap.
Amen brother
I saw the same pic with a different caption.
Hurricane Harvey to Houston: "You'll eat vegan or starve!"
Houston (Takes a big swig of whiskey): "We'll see you in Hell."
This comment actually made me laugh out loud. I'm still chuckling a little as I write this. Damn right!
RobertTheTexan
09-03-17, 15:22
I saw the same pic with a different caption.
Hurricane Harvey to Houston: "You'll eat vegan or starve!"
Houston (Takes a big swig of whiskey): "We'll see you in Hell."
This one is definitely better.
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Grand58742
09-04-17, 10:34
And this is the only thing the media has to focus on in regards to the response to Harvey...
http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/29/news/trump-harvey-campaign-hat/index.html
President Trump has appeared on camera several times to support victims of Hurricane Harvey.
What has also received air time? The "Official USA 45th Presidential Hat," for sale by Trump's campaign for $40.
The watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW, points out that the president has been pictured wearing the hat, both in red and in white, in two official photos released by the White House. He wore the white version on his trip to Houston Tuesday.
And of course, Melania's shoes on Tuesday:
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/08/melania-trump-hurricane-harvey-heels
And the media wonders why people just don't trust them...
And this is the only thing the media has to focus on in regards to the response to Harvey...
http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/29/news/trump-harvey-campaign-hat/index.html
And of course, Melania's shoes on Tuesday:
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/08/melania-trump-hurricane-harvey-heels
And the media wonders why people just don't trust them...
I'll take "Because they're complete idiots" for $ 800 Alex. :(
skywalkrNCSU
09-04-17, 14:19
Supposedly we are using gas at a rate of 2.5x normal usage from people hoarding. I took the opportunity to get a lot of work done around the house this weekend so I'd have enough gas for getting to work a few days this week so I am just waiting this one out.
Supposedly we are using gas at a rate of 2.5x normal usage from people hoarding. I took the opportunity to get a lot of work done around the house this weekend so I'd have enough gas for getting to work a few days this week so I am just waiting this one out.
The math on that just does not work at the regional level. It might be true for local distribution... People just can't hoard that much gas. You can only top off your tank early once, then at that point you are just replacing what you burn. Many neighbors with more than 5 gallons of jugs? (Actually I have some, but it's more rural)
The colonial pipeline which feeds the SE up to NJ pumps roughly 105 million gallons a day from the Gulf normally. Slightly more than half of that is gasoline, with one pipe dedicated to gas 7x24 (of 2). Plantation pipeline also pumps about 1/3 of that amount as well.
Today they reported the pumping volume was down 25% due to the Houston refineries being shut down. (14 or more, one being the largest in the nation). It had been zero, as the pipelines were shut down proactively and could not be restarted immediately due to damage/flooding. http://image.al.com/home/bama-media/width620/img/news_impact/photo/23335346-mmmain.jpg
Here's the thing about pipelines... what they pump is roughly equivalent to demand, +- seasonality. There is just not that much storage for gas. The tank farms are just a temporary buffer. GA alone uses roughly 13 million gallons of gas a day (from 2015 annual figures). The majority of which comes from two pipelines. (the rest via coastal ports on the Atlantic)
They predict to have the TX refineries start coming back online in the next 7-14 days. It also takes about a week for the fuel to flow through the pipeline once it leaves TX and get to ATL/SC/TN.
These are physical realities, and we've lived pipeline shutdowns multiple times in the last 10 years. Most recently the break south of Birmingham.
You may not think it's an issue, but the NC governor has declared a state of emergency based on the pipeline issue. GA gov expected to do the same. They do so to allow additional trucking to occur, but that's just a drop in the bucket. Just not enough semi's to make up the loss, nor a source. The US gov did release half a million gal of gas from the strategic reserves to try to help.
We're not out of gas yet in the Atlanta area, though some stations are seeing issues. Not much of a run mindset. Maybe they'll come back online before the tank farms run out.
Moose-Knuckle
09-05-17, 04:55
The math on that just does not work at the regional level. It might be true for local distribution... People just can't hoard that much gas. You can only top off your tank early once, then at that point you are just replacing what you burn. Many neighbors with more than 5 gallons of jugs? (Actually I have some, but it's more rural)
The colonial pipeline which feeds the SE up to NJ pumps roughly 105 million gallons a day from the Gulf normally. Slightly more than half of that is gasoline, with one pipe dedicated to gas 7x24 (of 2). Plantation pipeline also pumps about 1/3 of that amount as well.
Today they reported the pumping volume was down 25% due to the Houston refineries being shut down. (14 or more, one being the largest in the nation). It had been zero, as the pipelines were shut down proactively and could not be restarted immediately due to damage/flooding. http://image.al.com/home/bama-media/width620/img/news_impact/photo/23335346-mmmain.jpg
Here's the thing about pipelines... what they pump is roughly equivalent to demand, +- seasonality. There is just not that much storage for gas. The tank farms are just a temporary buffer. GA alone uses roughly 13 million gallons of gas a day (from 2015 annual figures). The majority of which comes from two pipelines. (the rest via coastal ports on the Atlantic)
They predict to have the TX refineries start coming back online in the next 7-14 days. It also takes about a week for the fuel to flow through the pipeline once it leaves TX and get to ATL/SC/TN.
These are physical realities, and we've lived pipeline shutdowns multiple times in the last 10 years. Most recently the break south of Birmingham.
You may not think it's an issue, but the NC governor has declared a state of emergency based on the pipeline issue. GA gov expected to do the same. They do so to allow additional trucking to occur, but that's just a drop in the bucket. Just not enough semi's to make up the loss, nor a source. The US gov did release half a million gal of gas from the strategic reserves to try to help.
We're not out of gas yet in the Atlanta area, though some stations are seeing issues. Not much of a run mindset. Maybe they'll come back online before the tank farms run out.
And thank you!
Fourth day of most stations around my area being dry.
While out on normal errands over the weekend the local Tom Thumb had some and they had lines, all the 7-11's were out, usually only QTs or Race Traks would have some every other day. At this point, I'm sure there are more than a few people that are on E or coasting on fumes.
I have a niece who plays for a select soccer club, they had a tournament this past weekend and one of the teams they were supposed to play was from Austin. They forfeited due to not wanting to make the drive for fear of not finding any gas. My sister had to go to two different stations to fill up to make the tournament over the weekend, one station only allowed $10 purchases and the other only $20.
Eurodriver
09-05-17, 05:47
I am taking the motorcycle to work this week because I do not want to be in a position where I need to bug out and my Jeep only has a 1/2 tank. The infrastructure can't handle two hurricanes. What a mess.
I am taking the motorcycle to work this week because I do not want to be in a position where I need to bug out and my Jeep only has a 1/2 tank. The infrastructure can't handle two hurricanes. What a mess.Aren't you on the east coast? If so that hurricane is a week away. Plenty of time to drive to work and fill up. On the other hand I do miss my bike!!
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Eurodriver
09-05-17, 12:49
Aren't you on the east coast? If so that hurricane is a week away. Plenty of time to drive to work and fill up. On the other hand I do miss my bike!!
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I'm at work so I can't show you right now but gas stations are already running out of gas around here. Besides, the weather before a hurricane hits is always beautiful!
ramairthree
09-05-17, 14:35
It is really nice out.
The pond in one of the pastures has got a couple of feet low and the stream is dry after relatively little rain this summer.
I am about 135 feet above sea level and 150 miles from the coast.
One kid in college is real close to home and other in college is further inland by an hour.
My house is on a hill.
I have a little generator for the horse trailer, a big one for the house, several vehicles fullmof diesel or gas and another 25 gallons of gas and ten of diesel on hand.
My wife made a big trip to Costco and we can probably eat for a month before dipping into the dozen buckets of mountain house/wise, etc.
My well pump will run from the generator if needed and at worse my septic will have a rough time.
No basement and the bottom floor of the house is barn or garage.
My biggest problem will be if there is no passable way to get to work.
I like getting paid and all, and don't really know how it works in the civilian world.
I was always able to get to work in the military. Always had a 4 runner, XTerra, Jeep, etc.
So, let's say you are a civilian.
You are a cop, firefighter, hospital nurse, nursing home staff, ED doctor, firefighter, lineman, etc. And you live 40 miles or whatever from work.
You are essential and needed there and they are getting slammed.
But all the roads to get to work are flooded or closed.
I had a guy I know tell me several paramedics could not get to work in Fayetteville for a few days during Matthew and there were some 911 calls where ambulances could not get to the homes.
So, let's say you are a civilian.
You are a cop, firefighter, hospital nurse, nursing home staff, ED doctor, firefighter, lineman, etc. And you live 40 miles or whatever from work.
You are essential and needed there and they are getting slammed.
But all the roads to get to work are flooded or closed.
I had a guy I know tell me several paramedics could not get to work in Fayetteville for a few days during Matthew and there were some 911 calls where ambulances could not get to the homes.
After Floyd we'd air evac patients from homes, fly them to LZs where ambulances were standing by. It was horrific flooding, many times worse than Matthew.
In Fran, the issue was wind, not flooding. We'd drive 50 yards, get out and cut a path through trees with a chain saw, drive 50 yards, do it again...and so on. We had calls where we simply could not get to the houses. We worked 12-hour shifts; since my relief couldn't get to me, I was on duty for several days.
I am a RN now, the policy is, if you are on duty, you are on duty, and they have a fleet of people with 4x4s to go pick up staff. Of course, dealing with a foot or so of snow is a much different beast than a devastating hurricane. Since I was a medic during all events thus far I don't know what the hospital would do in the event of a major hurricane, when even the volunteer drivers can't get out.
RobertTheTexan
09-05-17, 16:15
And thank you!
Fourth day of most stations around my area being dry.
While out on normal errands over the weekend the local Tom Thumb had some and they had lines, all the 7-11's were out, usually only QTs or Race Traks would have some every other day. At this point, I'm sure there are more than a few people that are on E or coasting on fumes.
I have a niece who plays for a select soccer club, they had a tournament this past weekend and one of the teams they were supposed to ed due to not wanting to make the drive for fear of not finding any gas. My sister had to go to two different stations to fill up to make the tournament over the weekend, one station only allowed $10 purchases and the other only $20.
Moose,
Not sure if you know, but I'm only about 45-50 miles north of you. Maybe it's population density or some other human factor but I've been keeping my truck topped off and every time I pulled into a gas station, be it the HEB, 7-11, or CEFCO. We aren't seeing any restrictions. At least not as of yesterday when I left. Thinking maybe it's pop. or pop. density/area. Hate to hear. St it's going on just down the road..
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Averageman
09-05-17, 17:27
The News reports 200,000 homes were damaged.
I'm not sure how many are a complete loss, but I'm guessing thats going to run at about 50,000 dollars a piece to repair.
That's a lot of cheese.
RobertTheTexan
09-05-17, 17:37
The News reports 200,000 homes were damaged.
I'm not sure how many are a complete loss, but I'm guessing thats going to run at about 50,000 dollars a piece to repair.
That's a lot of cheese.
I lost count how many homes I saw already stripped out. Hopefully they were able get some bleach sprayed and eliminate the risk of mold. Saw a lot of homes still in standing water. The team we were helping focuses on the folks who have no flood insurance and probably at this point not much hope. You're right. That is an awful lot of cheese.
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Averageman
09-05-17, 17:40
Mold and Mosquitoes, it's gonna be even uglier in the coming weeks.
skywalkrNCSU
09-05-17, 22:20
Gas stations still have lines around here but it's definitely getting better. I was running on fumes so I finally went to get some after work and waited less than ten minutes and had no problems.
Moose-Knuckle
09-06-17, 05:12
So, let's say you are a civilian.
You are a cop, firefighter, hospital nurse, nursing home staff, ED doctor, firefighter, lineman, etc. And you live 40 miles or whatever from work.
You are essential and needed there and they are getting slammed.
But all the roads to get to work are flooded or closed.
I had a guy I know tell me several paramedics could not get to work in Fayetteville for a few days during Matthew and there were some 911 calls where ambulances could not get to the homes.
When I worked for a PD the city would allocate hotel rooms for personnel in the event of a severe weather event. It was voluntary if you wanted to stay so you didn't have to drive in as no one who worked in the city actually lives in the city. I never took them up and drove in every time roads were closed due to winter storms. As mentioned above by chuckman, if you're on duty you're on duty. If not you get there when you can if you can. Only time I called off was when my wife was eight months pregnant and we received the heaviest snowfall in 70 years. No way I could let her stay by herself about to pop with every road in all directions froze over. EMS might get to her but I would be stuck miles away and wouldn't able to be there.
After 9/11 SWAT went on 24 hour shifts, the PD had cots for them to sleep in a large conference type room, showers in the locker room etc.
Moose-Knuckle
09-06-17, 05:23
Moose,
Not sure if you know, but I'm only about 45-50 miles north of you. Maybe it's population density or some other human factor but I've been keeping my truck topped off and every time I pulled into a gas station, be it the HEB, 7-11, or CEFCO. We aren't seeing any restrictions. At least not as of yesterday when I left. Thinking maybe it's pop. or pop. density/area. Hate to hear. St it's going on just down the road..
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I believe I'm North of you brother, I'm less than fifty miles south of the Red River.
Today was the first day I saw gas at several places since Thursday, no lines in the evening. This was at a Wal-Mart Murphy USA station, a Market Street's United Express station, and one Shell station. I think 7-11's are mostly franchised these days so don't know what's up with their distribution system they've been out all week. Other places were still completely out of all grades and diesel. Both our vehicles are topped off and my cans are filled. Wife is going to commute to work just two days this week so it won't be too hard to keep her's topped off as well. We're waiting to see what Irma does this weekend. If she lands anywhere near a refinery or pipeline things could get interesting quick.
RobertTheTexan
09-06-17, 05:44
I believe I'm North of you brother, I'm less than fifty miles south of the Red River.
Today was the first day I saw gas at several places since Thursday, no lines in the evening. This was at a Wal-Mart Murphy USA station, a Market Street's United Express station, and one Shell station. I think 7-11's are mostly franchised these days so don't know what's up with their distribution system they've been out all week. Other places were still completely out of all grades and diesel. Both our vehicles are topped off and my cans are filled. Wife is going to commute to work just two days this week so it won't be too hard to keep her's topped off as well. We're waiting to see what Irma does this weekend. If she lands anywhere near a refinery or pipeline things could get interesting quick.
Ahh you are right. For some reason I thought you were in the Austin area. I'm up in Arkansas this week and things look normal although I don't hit the gas station until it's time to take the rental back to the airport. Just observing things here, everything looks ops norm. Red River? Well, missed that by a country mile. Or two.
Just thinking back on Katrina and Rita. Less than 30 days apart...hopefully it's nothing like that. It folks have amp,e warning so hopefully those who are getting out get out. Headed home early Friday should be well ahead of it thankfully.
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Moose-Knuckle
09-07-17, 05:01
Ahh you are right. For some reason I thought you were in the Austin area. I'm up in Arkansas this week and things look normal although I don't hit the gas station until it's time to take the rental back to the airport. Just observing things here, everything looks ops norm. Red River? Well, missed that by a country mile. Or two.
Just thinking back on Katrina and Rita. Less than 30 days apart...hopefully it's nothing like that. It folks have amp,e warning so hopefully those who are getting out get out. Headed home early Friday should be well ahead of it thankfully.
You might of thought I was in Austin due to my Heat thread where I posted a link for the Alamo Draft House showing it again on the big screen. Be safe in your travels, we're getting the cooler fall weather early. My AO had a low of 59° yesterday morning!
A friend of mine posted this pick of a truck's grill from Rockport yesterday, Rockport was one of the areas hardest hit.
That ain't mud, those are dead mosquitos!
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4409/36939616021_166954de54_b.jpg
A friend of mine posted this pick of a truck's grill from Rockport yesterday, Rockport was one of the areas hardest hit.
That ain't mud, those are dead mosquitos!
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4409/36939616021_166954de54_b.jpg
I believe it. I was living in McAllen, TX when Hurricane Dolly came through. The mosquitoes were unbearable for months afterwards.
RobertTheTexan
09-07-17, 05:56
You might of thought I was in Austin due to my Heat thread where I posted a link for the Alamo Draft House showing it again on the big screen. Be safe in your travels, we're getting the cooler fall weather early. My AO had a low of 59° yesterday morning!
A friend of mine posted this pick of a truck's grill from Rockport yesterday, Rockport was one of the areas hardest hit.
That ain't mud, those are dead mosquitos!
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4409/36939616021_166954de54_b.jpg
That's exactly where I got that from. The Heat posts. Well like Duke always said, "Knowing, is half the battle." Thanks for clearing that up! Wow, that's a lot of skeeters.... with the I drained water, that's gonna always be a problem. Some summers are worse than others, but this is really bad.
I don't even know if you can put a proactive plan on place to deal with mosquitoes because there is still so much standing water.
How about this for your go to work temp:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170907/919de081149788b64cc99e166f5dae60.jpg
It's been cooling off here since Monday. A welcome respite from the Texas heat back home. Now I can do some training without suffering minor heat exhaustion. Lol
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platoonDaddy
09-07-17, 09:29
Friggin ESPN
ESPN Orders Broadcasters Not to Say Matt Harvey During Astros Game
Matt Harvey: This goes without saying.
Devastating, Overpower, Overwhelm, Flood, Power Pitcher: IBID
Swept: IBID
Home, Home run, Home plate umpire: Could trigger those who lost homes to the flooding
Safe: People in this city may not feel this way
Radar Gun Readings: We recommend not using the pitch or exit velocity trackers during this game in the event that one of those readings matches windspeeds from the Hurricane (between 80-130 mph)
Brandon Nimmo: although it is pronounced with a soft i a broadcaster could easily slip and say Nemo, reminding everybody of an underwater vessel—or city
Houston: This city is named after a 19th century white male. We're assuming he fought for the Confederacy. Treat it as a reverse Washington Football Team.
Ruben Carter: in the off chance the conversation somehow turns to the wrongfully imprisoned middleweight boxer, DO NOT refer to him by his nickname.
Wall: This city has a large Latino population.
Rebuild: We are aware that the Mets will have to reassemble their roster following this woeful season, but their plight pales in comparison to that of this city.
Bullpen: We are unsure of the lexicology, but advise clients that it is always best to avoid PETA's crosshairs
http://freebeacon.com/blog/exclusive-espn-orders-broadcasters-not-to-say-matt-harvey-during-astros-game/
Averageman
09-07-17, 09:46
Mosquito borne virus could be a real issue in the coming weeks.
Last night was the first time I had ever seen Walmart out of fuel and this is a good two hour drive North of Houston.
Friggin ESPN
ESPN Orders Broadcasters Not to Say Matt Harvey During Astros Game
Matt Harvey: This goes without saying.
Devastating, Overpower, Overwhelm, Flood, Power Pitcher: IBID
Swept: IBID
Home, Home run, Home plate umpire: Could trigger those who lost homes to the flooding
Safe: People in this city may not feel this way
Radar Gun Readings: We recommend not using the pitch or exit velocity trackers during this game in the event that one of those readings matches windspeeds from the Hurricane (between 80-130 mph)
Brandon Nimmo: although it is pronounced with a soft i a broadcaster could easily slip and say Nemo, reminding everybody of an underwater vessel—or city
Houston: This city is named after a 19th century white male. We're assuming he fought for the Confederacy. Treat it as a reverse Washington Football Team.
Ruben Carter: in the off chance the conversation somehow turns to the wrongfully imprisoned middleweight boxer, DO NOT refer to him by his nickname.
Wall: This city has a large Latino population.
Rebuild: We are aware that the Mets will have to reassemble their roster following this woeful season, but their plight pales in comparison to that of this city.
Bullpen: We are unsure of the lexicology, but advise clients that it is always best to avoid PETA's crosshairs
http://freebeacon.com/blog/exclusive-espn-orders-broadcasters-not-to-say-matt-harvey-during-astros-game/
Oh FFS! This Houston, Tx not friggin' Malibu or Boulder. We ain't that damn sensitive and easily triggered here. Well, there are lots of liberal transplants here from other locales that might be easily triggered but they need to learn to suck it up and drive on.
Most normal folks here in Houston would rather hear the guy announce that he is Harvey and make a joke or two to lighten the mood. Hell, even most folks in Austin ain't that easily triggered.
Averageman
09-07-17, 14:46
I'm really starting to hate players, sports ESPN and their progressive liberal agendas
ESPN has gone full libtard! :angry:
NYH1.
SeriousStudent
09-07-17, 20:27
Oh FFS! This Houston, Tx not friggin' Malibu or Boulder. We ain't that damn sensitive and easily triggered here. Well, there are lots of liberal transplants here from other locales that might be easily triggered but they need to learn to suck it up and drive on.
Most normal folks here in Houston would rather hear the guy announce that he is Harvey and make a joke or two to lighten the mood. Hell, even most folks in Austin ain't that easily triggered.
In the words of one of our fellow Texans, Ron White: "You can't fix stupid."
ESPN has gone full libtard! :angry:
NYH1.
Pretty sure that happened about 5 years ago.
Averageman
09-07-17, 21:46
It must sick to be Shannon Sharp, his new job is designated apologists for Colin Kapearnick.
Grand58742
09-07-17, 22:24
I'm pretty sure that's satire, but with the way ESPN reacted to Robert Lee calling the Virginia football game, I wouldn't doubt if it were true.
Nothing new with ESPN. You would think a sports outlet would be more conservative, but they are as liberal as the bulk of the news organizations.
The Free Beacon piece has the satire tag on it.
Moose-Knuckle
09-08-17, 05:07
How about this for your go to work temp:
I'll take that all the day long!
Last night was the first time I had ever seen Walmart out of fuel and this is a good two hour drive North of Houston.
Are you talking about their Murphy USA gas station? I'm up in North Central and the one close to me was out for a week.
I think we're seeing the fuel shortages this time around due in part to the amount of people that have been moving here over the last decade.
skywalkrNCSU
09-08-17, 08:27
The Free Beacon piece has the satire tag on it.
Shhhhh don't ruin it
Averageman
09-08-17, 08:50
IAre you talking about their Murphy USA gas station? I'm up in North Central and the one close to me was out for a week.
I think we're seeing the fuel shortages this time around due in part to the amount of people that have been moving here over the last decade.
It's Murphy.
Still no fuel this morning. On Post, no issues.
What's the situation around Houston like now? Fuel? MSM pretty much moved on to Irma, and now moving on from Irma to Maria.
CleverNickname
09-22-17, 21:05
If someone's home or business flooded, or their commute takes them around the part of Hwy 6 that's still flooded, then yes, there's still an effect. If not, most everything's back to normal.
If someone's home or business flooded, or their commute takes them around the part of Hwy 6 that's still flooded, then yes, there's still an effect. If not, most everything's back to normal.
Copy that. Thanks for the reply.
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