View Full Version : Troy SFOD-D "Mogadishu Rifle". Any input?
Just recently stumbled upon this rifle in a gun mag I picked up last week. There seems to be scant info on the web about it. I tried a search on here but didn't get far. Is it a decent rifle? I've always liked clones and movie rifles and the Delta rifles from Black Hawk Down have appealed to me since I saw it. I'm sure I could build the same gun but was interested in others' input as to whether or not it's a decent value vs building from scratch. Thanks.
Rifle in question(duh).
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170831/05c2a0a8897e89f559c8f102c594c949.png
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Well, the got the acronym wrong...
There have been documented issues with the Troy Rifles. A quick search should turn up a few threads.
Rick
Well, the got the acronym wrong...
There have been documented issues with the Troy Rifles. A quick search should turn up a few threads.
Rick
They also got the name of the weapon wrong.
Eta: It seems that I could be wrong.
Great. So they got the name wrong and the order of the letters. Junk rifle I gather? I understand they have XM177 this and GAU that. I'm guessing they chose the misspelled/wrong name so non-gun savants would know what the rifle was patterned after. I was more looking for operational info about it as there is none to be found that I'm aware of. Thanks for the replies.
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Can't wait for the "Bin Laden Raid" MR556 from HK.
I have experience with the Troy XM177E2. If you do a search on M4carbine.net you'll run into my fairly detailed account of said experience. As is evident in my old post, i was very displeased with the rifle i received. Their attempt to resolve the issues was laughable. The best part about the whole thing was that i was able to get my money back. In my personal experience, these rifles look nice, but they are not hard use guns and have pretty noteworthy QA/QC issues. I feel duty bound to post about it, as i received multiple PM's from other Troy XM and GAU owners who, after reading my post went and noticed the very same issues on their rifles. :/
Sure wish someone would make quality retro uppers.
Ill just go ahead and paste my old post right here:
"Well, I received my Troy XM177E2. Up until this point, i hadn't owned anything but BCM and Colt gear. Lets just say that i won't be making that mistake again. The lower on the Troy XM177E2 possessed a buffer detent cavity that was milled too far to the rear of the lower. As a result, mere hand cycling of the BCG caused substantial wear to the face of the buffer. In addition, the carbine receiver extension was out of spec (too long). As a result of the out of spec carbine receiver extension, the buffer could not properly bottom out in the receiver extension, causing the gas key to strike the lower receiver. Finally, the gas tube made what i would consider unacceptable contact with the gas key (just BARELY passed the subjective carrier tilt test etc.). Obviously, the first two issues (out of spec location of buffer detent cavity and out of spec receiver extension) are completely unacceptable. I contacted troy, they took the gun in for repair/replacement. As far as I'm concerned, replacement was the only acceptable outcome, as an out of spec buffer detent cavity cannot be repaired (forging is screwed). They sent the gun back and said it was good to go. The ONLY repair they did was to drop a washer/spacer into the out of spec receiver extension, in an effort to reduce travel space within the tube and prevent the gas key from striking the lower. Yeah, no thanks. The buffer was still smashing into the buffer detent (of course) and a washer/spacer is an unacceptable fix for an out of spec carbine receiver extension. They didn't touch the gas tube. So...I sent the XM177E2 back to Troy for a full refund. Thankfully, Troy has refunded my money and the customer service guy was cordial. Never shot the rifle so i can't speak to anything else. Obviously, that was a generally poor experience. Its a shame, as the rifle did look nice and was very light and handy. Anyone else have issues with out of spec receiver extensions and incorrectly milled buffer detent cavities? Just thought id share my experiences. I waited to post until i gave troy a chance to fix the issues. Again, I'm at least thankful that they didn't try to stick me with the rifle."
Good enough. I'll build my own then. I was just curious as to the value for the price but no price is worth no value. Thanks again.
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everready73
08-31-17, 14:10
If you did want some more info Chris Bartocci has a video on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7fsogiPUtE&t=573s
Good enough. I'll build my own then. I was just curious as to the value for the price but no price is worth no value. Thanks again.
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I'm in the process as well too.
Mysteryman
09-01-17, 10:45
Great. So they got the name wrong and the order of the letters. Junk rifle I gather? I understand they have XM177 this and GAU that. I'm guessing they chose the misspelled/wrong name so non-gun savants would know what the rifle was patterned after. I was more looking for operational info about it as there is none to be found that I'm aware of. Thanks for the replies.
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If they can't get the advertising and nomenclature right do you think they've put a lot of thought into the production? The location of the light is also incorrect. Do you see a trend forming..
I think these fashion/lifestyle guns have gone too far. Troy's at least isn't as obnoxious and ostentatious as others. Retro ARs are fun to build, I'd never buy one.
If they can't get little things right, how do we know they'll get the important things right? As is often the case, they didn't. This is one of the reasons little things everything.
I forgot all about Troy until mentioned in this thread.
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I forgot all about Troy until mentioned in this thread.
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lol
Definitely a problem when they can't resolve issues, and might not even be able to name it correctly.
noonesshowmonkey
09-02-17, 18:30
Well, they got the acronym wrong...
Fixed yer spelling. I gotchu, boo.
/thread
In other news, my .gov over-run Troy carbine has been a shooter. No problems. I did have to put a trigger guard pin in, though, which I thought was an absurd oversight.
Just saw a 'review' of this and a back cover ad in some G&A branded tactical magazine today, looks like they fixed the spelling.
Whether or not the rifle is a piece of shit, I doubt seriously Troy printed the literature. Nor the ads in any gun rags.
The people building/manufacturing the guns DAMNED sure didn't.
My day job is manufacturing. Everything from decorative fence, to DOS K12 rated and certified crash/security barriers. I've never been asked to "approve" any marketing materials, much less have a hand in crafting it. And said marketing materials sure as hell have no bearing on how I run my departments, or the quality of my product.
For all the smart people on this forum, sometimes we get hung up on some truly "head scratcher" shit.
Again...the rifle may be a POS. How the brochure arranged some letters will not prove that one way or the other.
Sorry for the rant. ☹️
ETA...
My comments were not aimed at those who merely pointed out the errors. They were aimed at the sentiment "well if they can't get the brochure right, then yada yada".
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Mysteryman
09-03-17, 11:54
Whether or not the rifle is a piece of shit, I doubt seriously Troy printed the literature. Nor the ads in any gun rags.
The people building/manufacturing the guns DAMNED sure didn't.
My day job is manufacturing. Everything from decorative fence, to DOS K12 rated and certified crash/security barriers. I've never been asked to "approve" any marketing materials, much less have a hand in crafting it. And said marketing materials sure as hell have no bearing on how I run my departments, or the quality of my product.
For all the smart people on this forum, sometimes we get hung up on some truly "head scratcher" shit.
Again...the rifle may be a POS. How the brochure arranged some letters will not prove that one way or the other.
Sorry for the rant. ☹️
ETA...
My comments were not aimed at those who merely pointed out the errors. They were aimed at the sentiment "well if they can't get the brochure right, then yada yada".
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So Troy's inability to proof read the ad means they've likely put the effort into the details of the product? I doubt that. The negative experiences with Troy products have been posted in this thread and many others.
MM
So Troy's inability to proof read the ad means they've likely put the effort into the details of the product? I doubt that. The negative experiences with Troy products have been posted in this thread and many others.
MM
No, what I said was, the two are unrelated. If Troy is unable to get details of the RIFLE correct, THATS not the marketing depts fault either.
And the Bartocci review of the Troy rifles was favorable, so like anything, YMMV regarding negative experiences.
I think the idea of a "Blackhawk Down Delta Force Skinny Blaster" is kinda gay personally. Unless of course, you are one of the bow-legged-due-to-huge-balls dudes that happened to be there, and want a commemorative.
But alas, I've gotten off track.
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What model optic in the pic? I am always looking for carry handle optics...
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No, what I said was, the two are unrelated. If Troy is unable to get details of the RIFLE correct, THATS not the marketing depts fault either.
And the Bartocci review of the Troy rifles was favorable, so like anything, YMMV regarding negative experiences.
I think the idea of a "Blackhawk Down Delta Force Skinny Blaster" is kinda gay personally. Unless of course, you are one of the bow-legged-due-to-huge-balls dudes that happened to be there, and want a commemorative.
But alas, I've gotten off track.
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I get what you are saying, and are technically correct, but it's indicative of the company culture. It looks lazy. One off is one thing, but multiple errors raises eyebrows.
Fwiw, h&k is still living down their error from what, the 90s?. It happens.
I carried two different XM177s on board between 1983 through the end of 1993 when OCONUS with the 160th. In Mogadishu, kept it wrapped up in a plastic bag to keep dust and dirt out of the weapon and bungie corded behind my seat. When I promoted out and assigned to 2/17 CAV, in 1994 it was the M4.
For most in SOCOM, it's always an odd assortment of weapons, government issue and private purchase. Troy has cute marketing, but to identify that weapon as the "Mogadishu Rifle" is just fanciful.
I get what you are saying, and are technically correct, but it's indicative of the company culture. It looks lazy. One off is one thing, but multiple errors raises eyebrows.
Fwiw, h&k is still living down their error from what, the 90s?. It happens.
Lol...you know, the H&K thing did cross my mind, and was "loaded in the mag" for the next post exchange.
Thanks for ruining it for me Mega!
[emoji14]
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ffhounddog
09-04-17, 04:19
I have two Troy Rifles. They work. Now I have a GAU-5 waiting for me at the house so I will see in a few months. I miss my old issued rifle.
I had a typo on the EMR-A card that said "Enhaced Magazine Release, Ambidextrous", and didn't catch it till someone I know pointed it out.
It went through several parties that either made or didn't notice the mistake, myself included in all of the chain of events. I held only myself responsible.
To be fair, honest mistakes can happen, and if someone were to say "if Forward Controls couldn't get something like spelling right, what else are they not paying attention to" they'd still have a point, never mind the project spent 2 years in development, to let something like this slip through the crack is inexcusable, it was an embarrassing lesson, even if few people caught it, and fewer still that cared.
The point is though the illustrators, marketing folks and print shop all bear some responsibility, the buck stops with the top.
I had a typo on the EMR-A card that said "Enhaced Magazine Release, Ambidextrous", and didn't catch it till someone I know pointed it out.
It went through several parties that either made or didn't notice the mistake, myself included in all of the chain of events. I held only myself responsible.
To be fair, honest mistakes can happen, and if someone were to say "if Forward Controls couldn't get something like spelling right, what else are they not paying attention to" they'd still have a point, never mind the project spent 2 years in development, to let something like this slip through the crack is inexcusable, it was an embarrassing lesson, even if few people caught it, and fewer still that cared.
The point is though the illustrators, marketing folks and print shop all bear some responsibility, the buck stops with the top.
A little drift...
People read with inherent biases. Kind of like that old example where if you remove letters, the message is still processed the same. Like your example above. Writers also write with assumptions of how readers will process information. When proofreading important docs or ad copy, I've found it best to add proofers that not only are detached from the project but detached from the discipline/industry. They catch things people familiar with the business and vernacular do not. Throw in a grammar nazi for good measure, too.
Agreed, "enhaced" can look like "enhanced" if we just glanced at it, because we often only read the first few letters of the word, and see the rest to divine its meaning, then quickly move on to the next word. In our case, it was noticed by someone related to the product, but not its namesake.
I remember the Colt website just a few years ago...it was an absolute joke. And they made the rifles that all others were judged by.
My point being, if Duffy's stuff works, (and I hear good things [emoji14]), I don't give a second thought to the literature. And I never would.
Troy's entire operation might be one giant shit show...but I thought this site was the "signal to noise" leader for AR type guns. Transposed letters noted, wrong name for the gun acknowledged...it's funny and I get it. Do it myself sometimes. It's when that then gets rolled into the review of the weapon itself that we've done a disservice to the novices that come here for no BS info.
As Megademic mentioned it earlier, nobody equates the mag thing in the HK ad with the quality of their guns, or the operations of their business. They're assholes for entirely different reasons. (And their weaps are still fantastic).
That's just my opinion as someone who makes stuff for a living, and owns and shoots guns as a hobby and in defense of house and home.
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MountainRaven
09-04-17, 17:00
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/35327Colt_catalog.jpg
The "name" of the weapon is, in fact, correct.
The Colt model 723 (M16A2 Carbine) shipped from Colt with A1, A1E1, and A2-style upper receivers. Most production was A1E1 with the large-style button - A1 was very rare and very early, and A1E1 and A2 style uppers with the "small" forward assist were very late (just before the first XM4s and M4s). They also shipped from Colt with both pencil "A1" barrels and heavier "M4" contour barrels.
Some people also seem to forget about the Colt Model 727.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/35327Colt_catalog.jpg
The "name" of the weapon is, in fact, correct.
The Colt model 723 (M16A2 Carbine) shipped from Colt with A1, A1E1, and A2-style upper receivers. Most production was A1E1 with the large-style button - A1 was very rare and very early, and A1E1 and A2 style uppers with the "small" forward assist were very late (just before the first XM4s and M4s). They also shipped from Colt with both pencil "A1" barrels and heavier "M4" contour barrels.
Some people also seem to forget about the Colt Model 727.
Is that the version developed and built by Boeing? :D
Great. So they got the name wrong and the order of the letters. Junk rifle I gather? I understand they have XM177 this and GAU that. I'm guessing they chose the misspelled/wrong name so non-gun savants would know what the rifle was patterned after. I was more looking for operational info about it as there is none to be found that I'm aware of. Thanks for the replies.
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What is wrong with the name?
What is wrong with the name?
In some literature it says "SOFD-D" instead of "SFOD-D". At least that's what I think is wrong.
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Also, just an observation:
Present company aside, a lot of new/younger shooters who grew up playing Call of Modern Whatever and seeing movies like BHD and Tears Of The Sun in their formative years seem to have 'pop culture reference' autism when it comes to certain things. An M14 with a red dot is recognized as the Delta Sniper rifle, a short M16 with a carry handle red dot is a Delta Force rifle. A Mk12 is a Lone Survivor rifle. It's not 'correct' from a technical standpoint, but I'd guess that most of the AR type rifles bought in the last 5 years were bought by people who don't know about Panama, Song Tay, couldn't tell you what a Gothic Serpent is (or if it's venomous[emoji1]) or that ST6 has been around since the EARLY 80s. Hiring practices and failure to proofread aside, I understand the naming of rifles to coincide with pop culture. I only own a single set of Troy buis and a single point sling of theirs so I'm not invested in their aura. I was just curious as to if the build was decent or crap. Thanks for all the replies.
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Renegade04
09-06-17, 10:09
Some people also seem to forget about the Colt Model 727.
I agree. There are many guys on this forum that have no idea as to the many different models that have been made since the beginning or the variations of many models. The M16A2 Series of weapons is one of the most convoluted. Most guys do not know which weapons were part of this series and the different features.
Let's keep the thread about the gun please.
Larry Vickers
09-07-17, 21:41
If they can't get the advertising and nomenclature right do you think they've put a lot of thought into the production?
So the location of the light is incorrect ; what is the correct location? I'm ready to be enlightened....
Mysteryman
09-08-17, 14:41
So the location of the light is incorrect ; what is the correct location? I'm ready to be enlightened....
Are you mad Larry?? The majority of pics I can find show the light mounted to the barrel but I did find a couple where the light was mounted to the handguard.
MM
Are you mad Larry?? The majority of pics I can find show the light mounted to the barrel but I did find a couple where the light was mounted to the handguard.
MM
Not following this. Back in the day, a myriad of mounting types were used before rails became standard.
I think what Troy was trying to mimic was the mounting of a Surefire legacy light under the front sight base using a clamp mount. These clamp mounts are no longer readily available, so a piece of 1913 rail was used on the forward end of the bottom handguard to give the "look" of the original mounting style.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Picture_0572.jpg
The bottom line is the rifle Troy created is basically an early to mid production Colt 723 and is pretty much historically accurate for what Troy is attempting to market.
Not every little detail is going to be correct.
If you want a 'correct' rifle there are two options:
1. Buy a transferable Colt 723, which is out of the reach for most people.
2. Create a factory SBR from a gray preban pushpin 6520 lower and match it to a matching 723 upper. This will cost about $6k which is out of the reach for most people. I have done this 4 times. It wasn't easy. Took me almost 3 years to get these guns perfect.
Generally correct... aside from the fact that the QA/QC + spec sheet is garbage (based on personal experience). Also, i love how under the specs section in the Troy picture the barrel is listed as "steel chrome-lined". hahaha! well...color me impressed that they decided to make a rifle barrel out of steel. smdh.
noonesshowmonkey
09-08-17, 17:48
Generally correct... aside from the fact that the QA/QC + spec sheet is garbage (based on personal experience). Also, i love how under the specs section in the Troy picture the barrel is listed as "steel chrome-lined". hahaha! well...color me impressed that they decided to make a rifle barrel out of steel. smdh.
Their spec sheets suck. I called regarding the carbine that I bought, and it is 4150 CMV, chrome lined, nitrided. Spoke with a customer service rep, who then sent me to an engineer. Called again, and ended up with a guy out on the production floor. Same story out of both folks: 4150 CMV.
I have no idea what the specs on this particular rifle are, but if you're curious, you could call them. That's what I did before I spent my hard earned sheckles.
Larry Vickers
09-08-17, 17:49
Are you mad Larry?? The majority of pics I can find show the light mounted to the barrel but I did find a couple where the light was mounted to the handguard.
MM
No I was just waiting to be enlightened- I've seen a trend with you speaking about things that you have little to no personal experience with and being in Somalia with Delta Force was damn sure one where you have no idea what your talking about. My advice for you is if you don't have personal experience in the topic at hand you might want to keep your opinions to yourself. That lessens the chance of looking like a know it all
Their spec sheets suck. I called regarding the carbine that I bought, and it is 4150 CMV, chrome lined, nitrided. Spoke with a customer service rep, who then sent me to an engineer. Called again, and ended up with a guy out on the production floor. Same story out of both folks: 4150 CMV.
I have no idea what the specs on this particular rifle are, but if you're curious, you could call them. That's what I did before I spent my hard earned sheckles.
Due to the fact that i had to return an incredibly poorly constructed Troy rifle (XM177E2) , Ive spoken to more people at Troy than i care to list. I was astounded at how little their "engineer" folks knew about the AR platform and 3 different people at Troy were incapable of providing specific barrel steel information. Just my personal experience.
Generally correct... aside from the fact that the QA/QC + spec sheet is garbage (based on personal experience). Also, i love how under the specs section in the Troy picture the barrel is listed as "steel chrome-lined". hahaha! well...color me impressed that they decided to make a rifle barrel out of steel. smdh.
Marketing is for the lowest common denominator usually. Remember another brand who preyed on low informed shooters selling an AR and in the top three lists of features was the name laser engraved on the lower.:suicide:
Mysteryman
09-10-17, 13:29
No I was just waiting to be enlightened- I've seen a trend with you speaking about things that you have little to no personal experience with and being in Somalia with Delta Force was damn sure one where you have no idea what your talking about. My advice for you is if you don't have personal experience in the topic at hand you might want to keep your opinions to yourself. That lessens the chance of looking like a know it all
Well I'm all ears Larry, could you confirm or deny the setup as pictured in Troy's ad as legitimate or not. You're an SME here I am not.
MM
Outlander Systems
09-10-17, 18:54
1) Flexing dick muscles on an SME?
2) Do you understand the concept of "personal preference?"
3) Try not to get your feelings hurt over a weapon system reproduction that you weren't issued.
I wasn't there. I wasn't issued one. I'm not offended. It's just a gun, folks. Try and remain calm.
Well I'm all ears Larry, could you confirm or deny the setup as pictured in Troy's ad as legitimate or not. You're an SME here I am not.
MM
SeriousStudent
09-10-17, 20:30
Mysteryman, allow me to provide you a brief lesson on how to post at M4C.
When am SME tells you to stop talking smack, you should do so. Immediately.
When a Mod gives you an infraction for talking smack to an SME, stop doing that.
When after receiving an infraction for talking smack, you continue to talk smack, then perhaps you need to post somewhere else.
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