Which BCG?

[AR-n-Ky]

I'm getting ready for another build, and unlike the past few where I had a few extra BCGs around because I picked them up on sale. I'm needing to purchase one or more.

I have used Tool Craft BCG in acouple of builds because I bought a few on sale. Right now I can get them at $75.00.

I have been watching The Son's of Liberty with great interest. They offer their BCG for $139.00. as I understand it they use Microbest BCGs, so. Is that a better BCG or are we just splitting hairs?

I will say that I have used PSA premium BCG in the past. On more than one build and they have looked well made and finished, and have preformed well.

The Tool Craft BCGs that I have were melonite finished and are very smooth in charging and cycling.

So, is the TSOL worth the extra money? I don't mind sending more to get more quality. But at that price I can almost get two Tool Craft BCGs.

Thanks for your input.

[everready73]

Between those two the Sons Of Liberty is the better choice IMO. Toolcraft are not bad by any means, but the ones i have seen for that price are just MPI, not HPT if that matters to you. The SOL ones also have the upgraded 5 coil extractor. Cryptic coatings is the only place i have seen the Toolcraft that have C158 bolt steel and HPT/MPI. Many of the other places that sell them use 9310 not C158. Also not sure if the Toolcraft are individually or batch tested. All things to consider

[adh]

If you're going to spend the extra $ over the tool craft I'd jump to this
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/bolt-carrier-group-components/31-bolt-carrier-group-np3-coated-carrier-bolt-and-cam-pin.html

[Iraqgunz]

I'll bet if you do a basic search. You will find several of these "Which one should I buy Threads"?

[Furbyballer]

Can't go wrong with a solgw or a sionics bcg. I pretty much exclusively buy sionics np3 bcgs or lmt now.

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[AR-n-Ky]

I'm not really asking which one is best. More like is the solgw BCG worth the extra money.

I have used in builds, BCM, Tool Craft, Colt and PSA premium BCG. All have been great and been flawless in manufacturing and service.

I have been interested in The Son's of Liberty Gun Works for some time. I'm just wondering if their BCG for almost twice the price of Tool Craft BCGs is worth it.

SOLGW BCG seems to check all the boxes, and they seem legit. I just wanted feed back from people that has used them and the others.

The first reply pointed out that Tool Craft isn't HP, just MPI. To me that is important, and maybe worth the extra money.

Thanks for the replies.

[everready73]

The only place I have seen toolcraft with MPI/HPT C158 bolt is Cryptic Coatings which is Toolcrafts retail end from what I understand. They don't specify if batch or individually tested and are closer in price to the SOLGW at $110 for the nitride

[Iraqgunz]

Toolcraft also doesn't make those bolts. I know where SOLGW stuff comes from, and the same goes with SIONICS and BCM. I would trust all of those over many of the ones on the market. The only person who can put a value on "is it worth it" is the person who is spending the money.


I'm not really asking which one is best. More like is the solgw BCG worth the extra money.

I have used in builds, BCM, Tool Craft, Colt and PSA premium BCG. All have been great and been flawless in manufacturing and service.

I have been interested in The Son's of Liberty Gun Works for some time. I'm just wondering if their BCG for almost twice the price of Tool Craft BCGs is worth it.

SOLGW BCG seems to check all the boxes, and they seem legit. I just wanted feed back from people that has used them and the others.

The first reply pointed out that Tool Craft isn't HP, just MPI. To me that is important, and maybe worth the extra money.

Thanks for the replies.

[AR-n-Ky]

I don't mind sending money on quality. But I have seen, what appears to be a good deal on say a BCG that clams to be quality product. Yet when you dig into it and ask questions about it to knowledgeable people you find out the truth.

I'm in the belief that quality parts make good builds. I'm also a person that spends my money wisely. I wait for sales, and if it's cheaper per item for more than one and I will use it. I'll buy two or more, for the discount.

Thanks everyone for your input. I lurk way more than I post, but I truly trust the opinions of this group, and I appreciate the information that is provided by this site.

[rabbitcop]

PSA bcgs are made by toolcraft.

Here is a link to a toolcraft bcg with nitride finish and c158 bolt
http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/ar15-toolcraft-black-nitride-bcg/


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[AR-n-Ky]

PSA bcgs are made by toolcraft.

Here is a link to a toolcraft bcg with nitride finish and c158 bolt
http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/ar15-toolcraft-black-nitride-bcg/


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I have used them before. I caught a sale for them for a package of 5 and I bought them. I sold two to a couple of friends for their builds for less than they could buy individually but a slight profit they what I paid.

I'm running one of them in a .300 AAC Blackout SBR upper build. It runs pretty smooth.

I like to change things up, but I don't want to give up quality. I'm interested in The Son's of Liberty Gun Works BCG because they seem like they check all the boxes, but I don't know anyone personal that is running them.

I was wondering if they were worth the extra money. It seems like they may be. Just collecting data.

I like to know all the vendors, manufacturers and such that put out and sell quality stuff. Be it guns, cars or whatever. I like to know who is the trusted people!

Though I don't post much here. I trust the opinions of this group.

[Kdubya]

What have the BCGs in your current arsenal failed to do? With your shooting style and round count requirements, have you developed confidence in the current hardware?

[everready73]

On thing to consider price wise on the SOLGW is that they have a 3 pack that works out to $123 each if you have any other builds planned. Or could sell to friends for a small profit as you have previously

[Feline]

For a range toy, it doesn't matter what you get. For social purposes, go BCM, LMT, DD, Colt, Sionics.

[longshot2000]

Most "manufacturers" of bolt carriers and bolts do not make their own hardware, and right now, there is a glut of hardware out there, so there are deals to be had. One under appreciated brand is Stag Arms, which actually makes their own stuff, and OEMs to a wide range of assemblers. Stag is basic and reliable, which is what you want from a BCG assembly. Let's face it, this is where the dirtiest of the rifle is. Stag has the 5.56 nitrided BCG on sale for $75, and I don't think you can go wrong there.

[JRHorne]

PSA bcgs are made by toolcraft.

Here is a link to a toolcraft bcg with nitride finish and c158 bolt
http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/ar15-toolcraft-black-nitride-bcg/


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Yup, I've got 2 and they are $80 shipped. I will continue to order them for every build I can at that price!

[JC5188]

Toolcraft also doesn't make those bolts. I know where SOLGW stuff comes from, and the same goes with SIONICS and BCM. I would trust all of those over many of the ones on the market. The only person who can put a value on "is it worth it" is the person who is spending the money.

IG is exactly correct. The military requires the HPT/MPI in an attempt to flesh out EVERY bad part, as the gun will be used in combat. Even then, if the steel is certified, the processes are under control and the manufacturer is at a 6 sigma quality level, you'll only have 3 bad parts per million to try and find.

For the military, the NDT makes sense...not their money and we don't want even three bad parts out there. For the vast majority of the commercial market, if you buy from a reputable manufacturer who has strong SOP's and processes, the MPI and Pressure test are non value added. A waste of money.

So what IG said is spot on...only YOU can decide what you really need. And you may or may not need all the NDT (which does nothing but make a part more expensive).


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[AR-n-Ky]

I have used Tool Craft, Colt, BCM, PSA in the past, plus my Rock River Arms National Match Service Rifle upper. All have worked will.

I just like trying different things in my builds, but I what quality.

Afew of my builds are match rifles. That get fairly high round counts with hot loads to compete at 1000 yards.

I have carbines that I train with (I by no means high speed, low drag), I try to stay somewhat proficient, with limited time for the range.

I have kick around, parts carbine, it was mostly take off parts from upgrading my others. Funny thing is it's a good, reliable and half way accurate shooter, even with the PSA CHF melonited M4 style barrel.

I'm just waiting to expand my base of know good quality parts/suppliers. I know very little about The Son's of Liberty Gun Works in it's self. So far everything I have read makes me believe that they are G2G. I just don't know anyone who has used their stuff first hand.

I guess my question should have been more like. For those that has used TSOLGW how do you like it and would you recommend them? How does their BCG compare to others that you have used?

Thanks for the input!

[Iraqgunz]

The problem with that statement, is it not 100% correct. I have seen several PSA carrier groups that were not staked correctly and did not use the correct screws. Those most assuredly did not come from Toolcraft.


PSA bcgs are made by toolcraft.

Here is a link to a toolcraft bcg with nitride finish and c158 bolt
http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/ar15-toolcraft-black-nitride-bcg/


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[flenna]

Can't go wrong with a solgw or a sionics bcg. I pretty much exclusively buy sionics np3 bcgs or lmt now.

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I agree, the Sionics NP3 bcg is top of the line. It is slick, literally, and clean up could not be easier.

[ssc]

I have experience with SOL, BCM, Colt, LMT and stag BCG's. I am very impressed with the SOL BCG. It has been flawless. I was impressed with how they set out the specs of the BCG. Between the SOL and the BCM, I give the very slight win to the SOL due to the extractor spring and the price. However, this is not, in any way a negative comment on BCM, as they are top notch as is the colt. For my go to guns, it would be SOL, BCM and Colt. (based on my experience) The stag BCG is in a range toy and has been reliable.

Cheers, Steve

[longshot2000]

I have used Tool Craft, Colt, BCM, PSA in the past, plus my Rock River Arms National Match Service Rifle upper. All have worked will.

I just like trying different things in my builds, but I what quality.

Afew of my builds are match rifles. That get fairly high round counts with hot loads to compete at 1000 yards.

I have carbines that I train with (I by no means high speed, low drag), I try to stay somewhat proficient, with limited time for the range.

I have kick around, parts carbine, it was mostly take off parts from upgrading my others. Funny thing is it's a good, reliable and half way accurate shooter, even with the PSA CHF melonited M4 style barrel.

I'm just waiting to expand my base of know good quality parts/suppliers. I know very little about The Son's of Liberty Gun Works in it's self. So far everything I have read makes me believe that they are G2G. I just don't know anyone who has used their stuff first hand.

I guess my question should have been more like. For those that has used TSOLGW how do you like it and would you recommend them? How does their BCG compare to others that you have used?

Thanks for the input!

I think your experience mirrors mine. I shoot long-range, but also spend most of my time building mil-spec clones (M4 types as well as big guns). Some of the discussion here is how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Most BCGs from major manufacturers or assemblers are going to do just fine 99.99% of the time, and at the end of the day, it is not worth worrying about.

Now, if you ask what is the best (not asked), I will tell you that the advise I got from Wes at MTSN years ago, and I have tested and agree, that the best combination out there is a Young's Manufacturing National Match carrier with a LMT bolt. It is rock solid. I think LMT and KAC make the best internals, followed probably by Colt and FN, then a large number of mil-spec brands, like Stag, CMT, followed by many, many others who either build specialty carriers, or buy from the aforementioned and put their name on it.

[titsonritz]

I'm just waiting to expand my base of know good quality parts/suppliers. I know very little about The Son's of Liberty Gun Works in it's self. So far everything I have read makes me believe that they are G2G. I just don't know anyone who has used their stuff first hand.

I guess my question should have been more like. For those that has used TSOLGW how do you like it and would you recommend them? How does their BCG compare to others that you have used?

Thanks for the input!


I don't even play with unknowns, my current BCG's consist of BCM, Colt, SIONICS and SOLGW, I would not hesitate to recommend any of them. SOLGW BCG says right on their box:

"Lifetime Warranty - If you're awesome enough to shoot one of these out, send it back...we'll replace it or repair it"

[Kdubya]

I don't even play with unknowns, my current BCG's consist of BCM, Colt, SIONICS and SOLGW, I would not hesitate to recommend any of them. SOLGW BCG says right on their box:

"Lifetime Warranty - If you're awesome enough to shoot one of these out, send it back...we'll replace it or repair it"

And Toolcraft doesn't make the list because?

They mfg for the military (cage codes and all). Also, straight from their website...

"Our products carry a lifetime, no questions asked, warranty. Simply put... Should any of our products fail, return it to us for a brand new replacement."

Not saying the others you've mentioned aren't good choices, but Toolcraft is far from an unknown.

[Hammer_Man]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I've narrowed my BCG choices down to Sionics NP3, and DD full auto chrome plated. For those of you running the Sionics NP3 coated BCG, how is the finish holding up with use? I'm mostly interested in these two finishes, as I've tried different Nickel Boron coated BCGs, and I find they don't live up to the hype.

[AR-n-Ky]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I've narrowed my BCG choices down to Sionics NP3, and DD full auto chrome plated. For those of you running the Sionics NP3 coated BCG, how is the finish holding up with use? I'm mostly interested in these two finishes, as I've tried different Nickel Boron coated BCGs, and I find they don't live up to the hype.

While I don't have a NP3 BCG, I do have a Beretta 96D in that finish, it has about 2000 rounds through it and it still looks new inside and out.

If you think the Beretta 92/96 action feels like it's gliding on ball bearings you ain't felt nothing yet.

Because of that, I have been interested in a NP3 finished BCG. So I too would like to hear what users have to say on that!

As for the SOLGW BCG, I think that I might try one. Some one said that they has a three pack, I just might partake in that.

[Kdubya]

So, a couple people have mentioned the SOLGW bcg gets the slight "nod" due to the extractor spring used. Interestingly, they list that their BCGs include the black insert and o-ring.

Isn't this a bit contradictory to the modern wisdom re: extractors? That an o-ring is a bandaid to cover up lesser extractor springs? And that a correct extractor spring, combined with an o-ring, is unnecessary?

For the record, I'm not trying to hate on SOLGW. I'd choose them over BCM and Sionics if I had to pick one of those three.

[Dennis]

I have 1700+ rounds on a Sionics NP3 BCG and it has only gotten smoother with use and no special wear. I would buy more and start replacing various other coated BCGs I bought during the last scare if they would only keep them in stock!

Otherwise I run Colt, BCM, and MSTN in my goto carbines.

Dennis.

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[Vegas]

I'm curious; how long has Toolcraft been selling direct to consumers? (Either themselves or their brand through other sources)

[ssc]

So, a couple people have mentioned the SOLGW bcg gets the slight "nod" due to the extractor spring used. Interestingly, they list that their BCGs include the black insert and o-ring.

Isn't this a bit contradictory to the modern wisdom re: extractors? That an o-ring is a bandaid to cover up lesser extractor springs? And that a correct extractor spring, combined with an o-ring, is unnecessary?

For the record, I'm not trying to hate on SOLGW. I'd choose them over BCM and Sionics if I had to pick one of those three.

Perhaps I have missed something, but my reading of the SOL BCG specs does not mention the O-ring. Non of my SOL BCG's have the O-ring. Interesting enough the BCM spec mentions the O-ring, however, non of my BCM BCG's have the O-ring. Lastly, the BCM extractor upgrade does have the O-ring, but the text mentions that it is probably not needed. My understanding is that the O-ring is not needed so long as the proper extractor spring is used.

Cheers, Steve

[Kdubya]

Perhaps I have missed something, but my reading of the SOL BCG specs does not mention the O-ring. Non of my SOL BCG's have the O-ring. Interesting enough the BCM spec mentions the O-ring, however, non of my BCM BCG's have the O-ring. Lastly, the BCM extractor upgrade does have the O-ring, but the text mentions that it is probably not needed. My understanding is that the O-ring is not needed so long as the proper extractor spring is used.

Cheers, Steve

Right from their website. 4th item on the list is what I'm going off of.

https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/products/np3-bolt-carrier-group?variant=4629360385

[ACE31]

I'm curious; how long has Toolcraft been selling direct to consumers? (Either themselves or their brand through other sources)

Bought (2) Nickle Boron Toolcraft BCGs. They get a huge thumbs up from me on a great BCG for $130.00. Both Toolcraft BCGs run like a champ in my pistol builds.

[Kdubya]

Bought (2) Nickle Boron Toolcraft BCGs. They get a huge thumbs up from me on a great BCG for $130.00. Both Toolcraft BCGs run like a champ in my pistol builds.

All the Toolcraft BCGs I've run have been flawless. Not a huge sample, but enough to be quite confident in their product. Just wish they made a NP3 version. Their offerings through Cryptic Coatings look awesome. But a simple NP3 coated in the $150 range would be great.

I know they're an OEM for quite a few companies; so maybe that option is already available?

[ssc]

Right from their website. 4th item on the list is what I'm going off of.

https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/products/np3-bolt-carrier-group?variant=4629360385

Interesting. When I do a search on the SOL website for NP3 BCG, the only thing that comes up is a sionics, Wilson and POF. Yet, your site works. I was speaking of this BCG, https://sonsoflibertygunworks.com/collections/components/products/solgw-bolt-carrier-group-158-carpenter-sp-hpt-mpi?variant=3084070593

I guess we have a question for SOL.

Cheers, Steve

[stevenravenscroft]

My new BCM complete bolt carrier group came today but the o ring was in plastic. So I dont know if it has one in it. My guess would be no and I dont plan to take it apart yet

[Kdubya]

My new BCM complete bolt carrier group came today but the o ring was in plastic. So I dont know if it has one in it. My guess would be no and I dont plan to take it apart yet

You may want to open it up and take a look at which spring it came with. There were a handful of relatively recent comments that they no longer come with their upgraded spring; coupled with some reports of reliability issues. Of course, actually running it is what matters. So, regardless of what you find if you decide to break it down, I'd assume it'll function just fine.

[jackblack73]

My new BCM complete bolt carrier group came today but the o ring was in plastic. So I dont know if it has one in it. My guess would be no and I dont plan to take it apart yet

My most recent BCM BCG (about a year old) came with the o-ring installed.

[hdrolling]

My last BCM BCG that I ordered with a complete 16" upper and mod 44 charging handle didn't come with the o-ring. That was 4-5 months ago. But works 100% so I didn't think anything of it.

I did just receive my sionics package last week, one complete BCG because they had a $99 sale going on. And a NP3 bolt carrier,cam pin and a firing pin and firing pin retaining pin. This will be used in a 6.5 Grendel build I'm doing that has a specific 6.5 grendel bolt that needed a carrier.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4343/37039832162_3e960ab43c_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Yr5PDU)IMG_8993 (https://flic.kr/p/Yr5PDU) by hd_rolling (https://www.flickr.com/photos/22585324@N07/), on Flickr

[joeyjoe]

You may want to open it up and take a look at which spring it came with. There were a handful of relatively recent comments that they no longer come with their upgraded spring; coupled with some reports of reliability issues. Of course, actually running it is what matters. So, regardless of what you find if you decide to break it down, I'd assume it'll function just fine.

What? I've not seen anything about this. BCM has never shipped anything but their SOPMOD upgrade extractor spring in their bolts. If they've changed this policy, id like to know. All of my BCM bolts have the proper extractor spring. Also, I've not seen anything about a batch of particularly unreliable BCM BCGs. Any links to what you are referencing?

[Mercs]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I've narrowed my BCG choices down to Sionics NP3, and DD full auto chrome plated. For those of you running the Sionics NP3 coated BCG, how is the finish holding up with use? I'm mostly interested in these two finishes, as I've tried different Nickel Boron coated BCGs, and I find they don't live up to the hype.

I was down to those two exact bcg's also and chose sionics, and it still looks brand new after about 1000 rounds. Can't say enough about the reliability and the extractor functionality either


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[Kdubya]

What? I've not seen anything about this. BCM has never shipped anything but their SOPMOD upgrade extractor spring in their bolts. If they've changed this policy, id like to know. All of my BCM bolts have the proper extractor spring. Also, I've not seen anything about a batch of particularly unreliable BCM BCGs. Any links to what you are referencing?

Here's one of them...

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?194637-Help-me-troubleshoot-FTE-(eject)-please

There's a link in that thread to another with similar issues right around the same time. There were a couple others, but I'm not going to do all the search feature homework for you :)

[tommyrott]

For me I would go with Sionics for price and CS, but wouldn't hesitate to buy BCM either. Also have used Faxon Firearms BCG as well but don't have a lot of miles on anything other than the Sionics Np3 in a suppressed set up and a BCM bolt + an elcheapo G&R overun carrier combo in a 14.5 with at least 4,000 rnds on it zero issues either one

[ACE31]

Great sale on BCG's from Toolcraft or Aero going on now. See the "where to get it thread" for details.

[Diamondback]

http://www.monmouthreloading.com/product-category/ar-parts/ar15/ar15-bcg/

Great sale on BCG's from Toolcraft or Aero. Would not hesitate at this price.
Seconded. I tried to put the BCM SOPMOD kit into the Toolcraft bolt when it didn't need it, and with the BCM in it was just too much extractor tension and wouldn't grab the cartridge.

Toolcraft is OEM for military replacement bolts, and the only difference I've found so far between the Milspec and the one Monmouth sells is phosphate vs. black nitride. If I'd had budget I woulda picked up a few more for the "Builds To Be" box...

[dale.labs.5]

i only use black nitride! NIB looks awful after you use it and some have flaked!


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[ACE31]

i only use black nitride! NIB looks awful after you use it and some have flaked!


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All Toolcraft Bolt Carrier Groups sold by Monmouth are manufactured and plated / coated by Toolcraft and include a 100% no-questions-asked warranty.


No matter what finish you choose Nickle Boron, Chrome, Black Nitrate or DLC you can't go wrong. Biggest advantage I see is simply cleanup time.

[Straight Shooter]

http://www.monmouthreloading.com/product-category/ar-parts/ar15/ar15-bcg/

Great sale on BCG's from Toolcraft or Aero. Would not hesitate at this price.

I made a headline thread with this in this forum section...but now its deleted. Wonder why?

[hdrolling]

I made a headline thread with this in this forum section...but now its deleted. Wonder why?

I'd guess it would be because that stuff is suppose to be posted here. At least I think that is why?

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?100661-The-Official-Where-Can-I-Get-It-Thread

[PapaFoxtrot]

I don't even play with unknowns...

I concur with this unequivocally. The SOLGW bcgs that I have been buying, and will continue to buy, eliminate 100% of my unknowns, guesswork, and compromises. It is Microbest, fully spec-ed with no corners cut, and tested.

[Hammer_Man]

I bought a Toolcraft nitride coated BCG from Monmouth, because the price was too good to pass up. Upon inspection everything seems very well made. There are no rough spots in the machining, and the finish is very smooth and shiny. I plan to keep this one around as a spare, and hope to have a range report this week...

[AR-n-Ky]

I concur with this unequivocally. The SOLGW bcgs that I have been buying, and will continue to buy, eliminate 100% of my unknowns, guesswork, and compromises. It is Microbest, fully spec-ed with no corners cut, and tested.

This is the kind of information that I was looking for. Someone that has used it, and will confidently buy them again.

While I won't stop buy Tool Craft BCGs, and others for my builds. I like to know about other top notch suppliers.


As a side note, I'm looking for both a slick side and forward assist notched BCG in chrome plated for a couple of retro builds that I have planned. So if the hive mind has any recommendations for that, I'll be glad to hear about them!

[AR-n-Ky]

I bought a Toolcraft nitride coated BCG from Monmouth, because the price was too good to pass up. Upon inspection everything seems very well made. There are no rough spots in the machining, and the finish is very smooth and shiny. I plan to keep this one around as a spare, and hope to have a range report this week...

Same here, price was too good to pass up, I used one in a .300 AAC Blackout SBR upper build and it has preformed very well.

It's functions smoothly and cleans up easily. When I first got them, I looked them over and all were well machined, smooth and shiny. They all looked good.

[Kdubya]

Seconded. I tried to put the BCM SOPMOD kit into the Toolcraft bolt when it didn't need it, and with the BCM in it was just too much extractor tension and wouldn't grab the cartridge.

Toolcraft is OEM for military replacement bolts, and the only difference I've found so far between the Milspec and the one Monmouth sells is phosphate vs. black nitride. If I'd had budget I woulda picked up a few more for the "Builds To Be" box...

I remembered seeing you post this in the "What have you done to your ARs today" thread. It's a great example of the fact that nothing is gtg until verified.

How many times do we see advice given to upgrade components that are functioning perfectly fine already? We specifically see it a lot with the recommendations to take a working BCG and upgrade to a Colt, BCM, or Sprinco extractor spring. Sure they are quality components. But that doesn't necessarily mean one can drop them in and call it good. Unfortunately, that's often how the advice comes across. Solutions in search of problems don't always end well.

[Diamondback]

I remembered seeing you post this in the "What have you done to your ARs today" thread. It's a great example of the fact that nothing is gtg until verified.

How many times do we see advice given to upgrade components that are functioning perfectly fine already? We specifically see it a lot with the recommendations to take a working BCG and upgrade to a Colt, BCM, or Sprinco extractor spring. Sure they are quality components. But that doesn't necessarily mean one can drop them in and call it good. Unfortunately, that's often how the advice comes across. Solutions in search of problems don't always end well.
And even then, two parts that are each separately Good2Go may not be G2G when placed in tandem. OTOH, the SOPMOD kit at its price is good to have a few on hand just in case, and the DSA bolt in my plinker's getting one at even the first *hint* of extractor trouble.

Excellent point about "ID what needs fixing" first before "fixing for the sake of fixing."

[Diamondback]

[doubletap]

[ACE31]

I bought a Toolcraft nitride coated BCG from Monmouth, because the price was too good to pass up. Upon inspection everything seems very well made. There are no rough spots in the machining, and the finish is very smooth and shiny. I plan to keep this one around as a spare, and hope to have a range report this week...

I ordered a third Toolcraft NMB BC from Monmouth today. The sale was far too good not to stock up on for future builds.

[vicious_cb]

All Toolcraft Bolt Carrier Groups sold by Monmouth are manufactured and plated / coated by Toolcraft and include a 100% no-questions-asked warranty.


No matter what finish you choose Nickle Boron, Chrome, Black Nitrate or DLC you can't go wrong. Biggest advantage I see is simply cleanup time.

Yes, you can go wrong, nickle boron is ****ing garbage. Id rather have a phosphated BC

[jataylor11]

Toolcraft is about all I buy anymore. No strange coatings either. Phosphate or black nitride is it.

[Straight Shooter]

Yes, you can go wrong, nickle boron is ****ing garbage. Id rather have a phosphated BC

In the spirit of educating me..and NOT disagreeing or arguing...WHY is it garbage?

[Hammer_Man]

In the spirit of educating me..and NOT disagreeing or arguing...WHY is it garbage?

I can't speak for vicious_cb, but Nickel Boron hasn't exactly lived up to the hype for me either. It has been my experience with multiple Nib bcgs, that Nib does not wipe clean with a towel, and does in fact require lube. I'd like to go back to chrome plated bcgs, but nobody seems to make one anymore.

[ColtSeavers]

I can't speak for vicious_cb, but Nickel Boron hasn't exactly lived up to the hype for me either. It has been my experience with multiple Nib bcgs, that Nib does not wipe clean with a towel, and does in fact require lube. I'd like to go back to chrome plated bcgs, but nobody seems to make one anymore.

Daniel Defense.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/ar-15-5-56-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-prod77813.aspx

Young MFG.

[Hammer_Man]

Daniel Defense.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/ar-15-5-56-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-prod77813.aspx

Young MFG.

Roger on the DD. Hopefully Brownell's marks them down for Black Friday this year...

[ABNAK]

Daniel Defense.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/ar-15-5-56-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-prod77813.aspx


Damn you! I needed another BCG like another hole in the head! I ordered it straight from DD though, it was in stock and $205 with free shipping.

[ColtSeavers]

Damn you! I needed another BCG like another hole in the head! I ordered it straight from DD though, it was in stock and $205 with free shipping.

You're welcome! :p

[ACE31]

In the spirit of educating me..and NOT disagreeing or arguing...WHY is it garbage?

Some people just like to argue...LOL. I am not saying one finish is better than another. All I am saying is its a hell of a price. I can buy (2) Toolcraft BCG for the price of one DD.

[Diamondback]

Some people just like to argue...LOL. I am not saying one finish is better than another. All I am saying is its a hell of a price. I can buy (2) Toolcraft BCG for the price of one DD.
Almost three, actually. :)

[Kdubya]

In the spirit of educating me..and NOT disagreeing or arguing...WHY is it garbage?

For nickel boron, the most common criticism pretty much relates to durability. There are some instances/reports of the coating flaking and/or chipping. Sometimes with lower round counts. On the other hand, there are instances with very high round count Nib coated BCGs that do not exhibit any signs of such types of wear. So, I'm inclined to think it may have more to do with proper application of the coating.

Now, if given a choice, I would select nickel teflon over nickel boron. One of the other critiques of nickel boron also relates to wear, but is less overt. No matter what, most coatings will degrade to some degree. When nickel boron wears, it's loss of lubricity (coefficient of friction) is more "aggressive". The BCG will still function just fine. But, the advantages related to a slicker coating have a diminishing value.

Nickel teflon also wears over time. However, it wears in a more uniform way; which better maintains its low coefficient of friction. It also is reported to have a little better corrosion resistance. But, for most, issues with corrosion on their BCG is of little concern. It is a little softer than nickel boron. But that's also somewhat inconsequential, because wear doesn't significantly alter its lubricity.

Both can have some advantages over traditional coatings/treatments when it comes to cleaning and required lubrication. But if the whole point of buying one is for those advantages, I'll opt for the one that's more consistent over time.


Some people just like to argue...LOL. I am not saying one finish is better than another. All I am saying is its a hell of a price. I can buy (2) Toolcraft BCG for the price of one DD.

^^^There's definitely some truth in this. As far as the nickel boron criticism, those examples provided in this thread don't necessarily warrant a "garbage" designation. It didn't just wipe clean. It requires lube. While valid points, everything indicates that the NiB BCGs still function. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

Regarding the general tendency of some to argue, the root motivation could be one of many things. In particular, when using your example of cost savings, I think part of the tenacity boils down to justification. There are plenty of instances where someone speaking favorably of a component that's not considered "tier-1" is told that they're just trying to justify buying junk.

Well, that argument can cut both ways. On the other side, there are some who buy the high-end products because they want to feel like they're "in the know". They see others champion the superiority of a product or brand, want to be accepted, and just go along with the popular kids. In application, their shooting experience very well might have been the same regardless of what brand they went with. But they don't want to feel like a sucker for spending twice the money to produce the same results. So, they justify spending more by clinging to the idea that those lesser components would have never performed as well.

Obviously, there are plenty of other reasons for disagreements. Some might be legitimate; others might not. My example isn't meant to declare that justification is the only factor motivating either side. The point is that justification is a two way street with plenty of traffic.

[everready73]

Primary Arms is running a sale on BCM BCG. Have to add to cart for price $144.99. Not bad considering they are not on sale to often http://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-company-manufacturing-bolt-carrier-group-mpi-auto-bcm-bolt-carrier-group-auto-mp

[10MMGary]

I purchased two DD BCG in the past two years and never paid more than 130.00 shipped,<one from Brownells & one from Botach <$118.00 shipped. I personally don't care but others may DD doesn't HPT their bolts, they are MPI however.

[Feline]

Primary Arms is running a sale on BCM BCG. Have to add to cart for price $144.99. Not bad considering they are not on sale to often http://www.primaryarms.com/bravo-company-manufacturing-bolt-carrier-group-mpi-auto-bcm-bolt-carrier-group-auto-mp

Any promo codes for shipping?

[Hillbillyhero]

I've bought 5 different BCGs for my builds. Hard to go wrong with any of the newer BCGs. From Aim Surplus to Bravo Company I haven't had a problem with any of them.

Sent from my P00C using Tapatalk

[ACE31]

For nickel boron, the most common criticism pretty much relates to durability. There are some instances/reports of the coating flaking and/or chipping. Sometimes with lower round counts. On the other hand, there are instances with very high round count Nib coated BCGs that do not exhibit any signs of such types of wear. So, I'm inclined to think it may have more to do with proper application of the coating.

Now, if given a choice, I would select nickel teflon over nickel boron. One of the other critiques of nickel boron also relates to wear, but is less overt. No matter what, most coatings will degrade to some degree. When nickel boron wears, it's loss of lubricity (coefficient of friction) is more "aggressive". The BCG will still function just fine. But, the advantages related to a slicker coating have a diminishing value.

Nickel teflon also wears over time. However, it wears in a more uniform way; which better maintains its low coefficient of friction. It also is reported to have a little better corrosion resistance. But, for most, issues with corrosion on their BCG is of little concern. It is a little softer than nickel boron. But that's also somewhat inconsequential, because wear doesn't significantly alter its lubricity.

Both can have some advantages over traditional coatings/treatments when it comes to cleaning and required lubrication. But if the whole point of buying one is for those advantages, I'll opt for the one that's more consistent over time.



^^^There's definitely some truth in this. As far as the nickel boron criticism, those examples provided in this thread don't necessarily warrant a "garbage" designation. It didn't just wipe clean. It requires lube. While valid points, everything indicates that the NiB BCGs still function. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

Regarding the general tendency of some to argue, the root motivation could be one of many things. In particular, when using your example of cost savings, I think part of the tenacity boils down to justification. There are plenty of instances where someone speaking favorably of a component that's not considered "tier-1" is told that they're just trying to justify buying junk.

Well, that argument can cut both ways. On the other side, there are some who buy the high-end products because they want to feel like they're "in the know". They see others champion the superiority of a product or brand, want to be accepted, and just go along with the popular kids. In application, their shooting experience very well might have been the same regardless of what brand they went with. But they don't want to feel like a sucker for spending twice the money to produce the same results. So, they justify spending more by clinging to the idea that those lesser components would have never performed as well.

Obviously, there are plenty of other reasons for disagreements. Some might be legitimate; others might not. My example isn't meant to declare that justification is the only factor motivating either side. The point is that justification is a two way street with plenty of traffic.

Pretty much spot on, some people like buying the cheaper brand A and some like buying the most expensive brand B. All depends on personal satisfaction or what makes you sleep better at night...LMAO

[Rodan1957]

My baseline for acceptable BCGs is Toolcraft Nib-X

[RichardLips]

Anything made from C-158 is my first go to. 9310 is a close 2nd.