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After many years of watching the ridiculous pricing on various rifle platforms I finally found a deal that offered most of what I required at an unbeatable price. Some of you may have seen the PSA Freedom MOA AR carbine on PSA daily deals recently... Well I bit. Still waiting for it to arrive at my local FFL (which I understand they are known for, the wait that is). And while I realize this isn't the faciest hotrod rifle out there, it seems to be a solid piece.
Anyways, its primary use will be recreational target/plinking with a requirement to be available for HD and such. It comes with a f-marked front A2 sight along with Magpul MBUS rear sight. I fully intend to utilize the stock sights during break in and to get used to them but I'd like to hear some discussions about good multi-purpose sights. I like the idea of a low to no magnification red dot but if I ever have to grab it for HD would be concerned about the extra step of turning it on. I come from a pistol and shotgun background and have NEVER run optics or other whizbang gadgets and am partial to keeping it simple.
Thoughts on eschewing red dot type optics for HD use? What sight setup would be recommended? The carbine has a flattop weaver rail with f-marked A2 front sight. Keep stock sights? Replace front, rear or both? I'm very new to the AR and have done lots of reading but have lots to do still.... Can't wait to start putting rounds down range!
RDs are quick and precise, unless you have severe astigmatism- which effectively turns the dot to a blob/starburst or comet.
With your new setup you might consider the Primary Arms RD with a co-witness or lower third mount, which enables use with FS.
The PAs RD has a 2 minute dot, they have held up to abuse on a couple of my beaters and they are inexpensive.
Renegade04
09-20-17, 17:29
After many years of watching the ridiculous pricing on various rifle platforms I finally found a deal that offered most of what I required at an unbeatable price. Some of you may have seen the PSA Freedom MOA AR carbine on PSA daily deals recently... Well I bit. Still waiting for it to arrive at my local FFL (which I understand they are known for, the wait that is). And while I realize this isn't the faciest hotrod rifle out there, it seems to be a solid piece.
Anyways, its primary use will be recreational target/plinking with a requirement to be available for HD and such. It comes with a f-marked front A2 sight along with Magpul MBUS rear sight. I fully intend to utilize the stock sights during break in and to get used to them but I'd like to hear some discussions about good multi-purpose sights. I like the idea of a low to no magnification red dot but if I ever have to grab it for HD would be concerned about the extra step of turning it on. I come from a pistol and shotgun background and have NEVER run optics or other whizbang gadgets and am partial to keeping it simple.
Thoughts on eschewing red dot type optics for HD use? What sight setup would be recommended? The carbine has a flattop weaver rail with f-marked A2 front sight. Keep stock sights? Replace front, rear or both? I'm very new to the AR and have done lots of reading but have lots to do still.... Can't wait to start putting rounds down range!
If you do not want to have to deal with turning an optic on and off, here is the one for you - the HOLOSUN 403A. It has an auto wake feature that automatically turns on the scope when it is moved and an adjustable 8 hour auto-shutoff. I have one on one of my ARs. It cannot be any simpler to use.
http://www.holosun.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63
https://i.imgur.com/JZmmOXL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9tlLQ45.jpg
As far as sights go, leave what you have. The MBUS and the FSB will work well together and with the optic.
Get the cheapest you can find for the cheapest rifle you bought.
Your AR does not have a flat top Weaver rail. It's Picatinny.
After many years of watching the ridiculous pricing on various rifle platforms I finally found a deal that offered most of what I required at an unbeatable price. Some of you may have seen the PSA Freedom MOA AR carbine on PSA daily deals recently... Well I bit. Still waiting for it to arrive at my local FFL (which I understand they are known for, the wait that is). And while I realize this isn't the faciest hotrod rifle out there, it seems to be a solid piece.
Anyways, its primary use will be recreational target/plinking with a requirement to be available for HD and such. It comes with a f-marked front A2 sight along with Magpul MBUS rear sight. I fully intend to utilize the stock sights during break in and to get used to them but I'd like to hear some discussions about good multi-purpose sights. I like the idea of a low to no magnification red dot but if I ever have to grab it for HD would be concerned about the extra step of turning it on. I come from a pistol and shotgun background and have NEVER run optics or other whizbang gadgets and am partial to keeping it simple.
Thoughts on eschewing red dot type optics for HD use? What sight setup would be recommended? The carbine has a flattop weaver rail with f-marked A2 front sight. Keep stock sights? Replace front, rear or both? I'm very new to the AR and have done lots of reading but have lots to do still.... Can't wait to start putting rounds down range!
Get the cheapest you can find for the cheapest rifle you bought.
Your AR does not have a flat top Weaver rail. It's Picatinny.
Maybe NEXT time I'll take out a second mortgage but for today I just want a decent rifle at a decent price. At what point would my personal expenditures meet your approval?
Maybe NEXT time I'll take out a second mortgage but for today I just want a decent rifle at a decent price. At what point would my personal expenditures meet your approval?
Unfortunately you're going to find that for many on here, the definition of decent is not met by anything PSA. Curious, what did you pay?
Don't mind at all sharing (especially in light of the pricing over the last few years). It was the public special on their website, $459 shipped. Hell of a deal compared to what some people I know have paid recently (even for lesser guns). While I'm 100% confident that an experienced AR builder could do better with less that is one thing I am not.
Edit: This is the Freedom M4 with the Magpul MOE furniture. Not fancy but specs look usable. Listed price was over $700.
ManOnFire40
09-20-17, 18:34
Maybe NEXT time I'll take out a second mortgage but for today I just want a decent rifle at a decent price. At what point would my personal expenditures meet your approval?
Check out some YouTube videos on red dots. That may also help you and screw what Iraqgunz said. Get what you like and can offered. We are here to help and not put people down based on their budgets.
Don't mind at all sharing (especially in light of the pricing over the last few years). It was the public special on their website, $459 shipped. Hell of a deal compared to what some people I know have paid recently (even for lesser guns). While I'm 100% confident that an experienced AR builder could do better with less that is one thing I am not.
Edit: This is the Freedom M4 with the Magpul MOE furniture. Not fancy but specs look usable. Listed price was over $700.
Again, unfortunately, had you logged on today, you would have seen the post right here about an Aero Precision for $499 plus shipping ($11 to me in NC when I checked earlier) and that would be a much nicer rifle for about $50 more. No Magpul furniture but standard Magpul furniture can be had cheap on the second hand market. Hell I'd bet there are enough nice folks on this and a few of the other forums that they would send you their Moe handguards, grips, and maybe a Pmag or two with the right approach or attitude for free.
At the end of the day, it is your gun and you have to shoot it. And also, as you stated, potentially rely on it for you and your family's life. I have a PSA pencil upper (with BCM BCG, though) and it has ran well.
You are missing the point oh Exalted One. He bought a cheap PSA rifle that will have ZERO value other than to him. So overthinking the red dot or buying a 400.00 Aimpoint serves little purpose.
Check out some YouTube videos on red dots. That may also help you and screw what Iraqgunz said. Get what you like and can offered. We are here to help and not put people down based on their budgets.
That may also help you and screw what Iraqgunz said. Get what you like and can offered. We are here to help and not put people down based on their budgets.
We are not here to help people "Get what they like and can afford." Fixed your spelling.
We are here to help people make quality choices and not buy bargain rifles that aren't on the same level as rifles that cost little more. Why buy PSA when known quality products cost just a little more?
Saving up to buy quality instead of just buying what you can afford is good advice; especially since OP said it may be used for HD. On a forum populated with knowledgable members that train frequently and most likely have served means we are not here to validate purchases that could put someone's life on the line due to poor quality.
Dang, you guys are harsh lol. Talk about inducing buyer's remorse!
OP, when you get your AR, take it to the range and sight it in. Put a thousand rounds through it and if it goes bang every single time you pull the trigger then guess what...you have a great rifle -- no matter what anybody here says.
Adrenaline_6
09-20-17, 20:47
If you do not want to have to deal with turning an optic on and off, here is the one for you - the HOLOSUN 403A. It has an auto wake feature that automatically turns on the scope when it is moved and an adjustable 8 hour auto-shutoff. I have one on one of my ARs. It cannot be any simpler to use.
http://www.holosun.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63
https://i.imgur.com/JZmmOXL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9tlLQ45.jpg
As far as sights go, leave what you have. The MBUS and the FSB will work well together and with the optic.
Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot is also made by Holosun, has the same battery life and durability, motion detection, etc, but does not require you to take the micro off to base to change the battery. They also have the option of getting it with their ACSS reticle. The torture test a publication did on it proved it is very durable and can take some heavy abuse.
This would be a good option for the OP.
You bought a rifle that is made for the range. It is a good range rifle. I wouldn't get defensive about your decision. IG is making a RDS recommendation based on your logic for purchasing the rifle. The reality is that PSA is not known for consistent quality and reliability. Using it for an application other than the range is unadvised.
It is a good choice if it is simply for fun. It is a poor choice for serious use.
Shoot and enjoy it!
Hammer_Man
09-21-17, 00:35
Learn to shoot with your iron sights first.
I dont own a psa rifle but a really good friend of mine bought a psa ar10. I tried to talk him into something a little higher end but he didnt want to drop alot on something that was going to be specifically used as a hog gun. And i dont ane him, our set up is hard on stuff. He got it in and we took it to the range and ran ab assortment of ammo from cheapest to a few hunting rounds, no match grade, through it without a hiccup and had tight groups. The build quality on this one was good, i cant comment on the long term quality of the small parts but they looked good and everything was where it should be. My only real complaint is the ugly roll mark. Now this isnt a going to be used for hd ever, Its sole purpose is to be thrown into a 60s model jeep and get beat to hell and shoot hogs. And it has worked great for that. Maybe he got lucky, idk. But if you just want an ar to get the bug out of system, throw a cheaper red dot on and put 1k rds or less a year, then it should fit your needs very well. if you get more serious about it, put it up and get something else that fits your needs then.
If you do not want to have to deal with turning an optic on and off, here is the one for you - the HOLOSUN 403A. It has an auto wake feature that automatically turns on the scope when it is moved and an adjustable 8 hour auto-shutoff. I have one on one of my ARs. It cannot be any simpler to use.
http://www.holosun.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63
https://i.imgur.com/JZmmOXL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9tlLQ45.jpg
I have a couple of Aimpoint Micros and I never have to turn them on or off. In fact, neither of them have an off switch.
Buck91, that PSA is going to need a new extractor spring after a few hundred rounds. It also comes with a carbine weight buffer which is a bit too light. You'll need to replace it with an H or H2 buffer
ruckusjuice
09-21-17, 13:31
I’ll also recommend the Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot. You can get one for $170 and a cheap mount for $30 on Amazon. Battery life of 50,000 hours so you don’t have to worry about having to turn it on in an emergency. Just leave it on and replace the battery every few years. It should be good enough for a range rifle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dang, you guys are harsh lol. Talk about inducing buyer's remorse!
OP, when you get your AR, take it to the range and sight it in. Put a thousand rounds through it and if it goes bang every single time you pull the trigger then guess what...you have a great rifle -- no matter what anybody here says.
Thats the plan! I have a few other HD options that had passed this test with flying colors (assuming we avoid WWB in 40s&w!) so it's not like this is my only option. Just my first AR.
OP, good luck with your rifle. It's done. The point that's been said 7 times 7 different ways is for little more you could have bought a first tier quality rifle. You gotta shop and look for deals but it can be had.
Shoot beer cans, Paper and steel and learn the AR world then tempt yourself with a Colt, BCM, LMT...yours Maybe not a HD gun, even after 1,000 rounds, there is always 1,001 you don't know about. I'm sure you have Glocks or other teir 1 guns that you can be safe with in HD.
Get a Vortex Sparc or something after you learn your irons. Good luck.
Check out some YouTube videos on red dots. That may also help you and screw what Iraqgunz said. Get what you like and can offered. We are here to help and not put people down based on their budgets.
You guys need to put your big boy pants on. I think what IG was saying is correct, based on the OPs apparent budget.
Another option Buck91, would be to have patience, save up and buy an Aimpoint PRO, mount and use it on that rifle while you save money for a quality rifle, instead of buying a cheap optic that won't last.
In the end you'll have a good dependable set up for defensive purposes and a range toy to beat the hell out of.
hulibarri4001
09-23-17, 12:55
How do you like that stock?
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TactiCool1976
09-23-17, 21:38
Maybe NEXT time I'll take out a second mortgage but for today I just want a decent rifle at a decent price. At what point would my personal expenditures meet your approval?
Dont worry about the the amount you spend on your first AR, if it's within your current budget, thats all that matters.. use this one as a "tester" to get a feel for what you are looking for.. Use your second AR rifle purchase as one that is more of a life n liberty gun... there is a lot of people who will tell you that a Colt 6920 is the gold standard for what an AR15 should be... other people will tell you BCM or Spikes.. but you have to think of what is practical for you.. Are you shooting maybe 2000 rounds a year? or are you shooting 500+ rounds every weekend?
Dang, you guys are harsh lol. Talk about inducing buyer's remorse!
OP, when you get your AR, take it to the range and sight it in. Put a thousand rounds through it and if it goes bang every single time you pull the trigger then guess what...you have a great rifle -- no matter what anybody here says.
Not quite. If it can get through 1k rounds, you don't have a shit AR. That alone doesn't qualify it for "great."
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Not quite. If it can get through 1k rounds, you don't have a shit AR. That alone doesn't qualify it for "great."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It will qualify as a shit AR that some how, against the odds, made it past 1k.
Enjoy your rifle, OP.
Chances are, it'll run just fine for you.
Here are some videos for you to watch if interested:
https://youtu.be/sYf2q7qw83s
https://youtu.be/A9cbC2trbdk
https://youtu.be/e9UNyWgrWbU
https://youtu.be/nnzxTWcRetc
https://youtu.be/crdPv6nAQwU
It will qualify as a shit AR that some how, against the odds, made it past 1k.
Here are some videos for you to watch if interested:
https://youtu.be/sYf2q7qw83s
https://youtu.be/A9cbC2trbdk
https://youtu.be/e9UNyWgrWbU
https://youtu.be/nnzxTWcRetc
https://youtu.be/crdPv6nAQwU
Gotta love the irony.
OP - Enjoy the rifle and ignore the noise. The only way to vet and trust a rifle is to shoot it. So do exactly that. Learn the platform and how to maintain it. Forget the rabid inferences that your rifle is garbage. The idea that, outside of a select few brands, a mfg/assembler cannot produce a perfectly serviceable rifle is utter nonsense.
Your fault isn't that you purchased the wrong rifle. Instead, it's that you happened to mention it in the wrong forum. PSA, along with many other brands, will not be treated objectively by a vocal segment in the community. As soon as you realize that, the better off you'll be. Most ARs will run just fine. Some will have minor issues. Even fewer will have major problems. And that goes for all of the brands.
The "Freedom" model you purchased is from the same line that made it through AKOU's 5,000 round torture test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crdPv6nAQwU
In that same test, a DD M4V11 stalled out in the first 2,500 rounds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IJU0zm1glY
They were eventually able to get the DD back into action and it finished the test. But, it failed nonetheless. The point is, there are no foregone conclusions. The above data points provided are simply that; single data points. It doesn't make the DD a bad rifle, and doesn't make the PSA the best rifle.
Interestingly enough, the guys at AKOU couldn't actually figure out why the DD stalled. Odds are, something got into the FCG and made its way out when they broke it down. The takeaway there is that the overwhelming majority of failures, for the platform in general, have little to do with substandard components. Instead, they will result from debris/cleanliness or ties to the magazines.
Now, seeing that you didn't even come here because you were having problems with the rifle, let me actually provide some input in reference to your actual question. As far as optics, I'd agree with others that Holosun has pretty much changed the game when it comes to mid-range red dot sights. They're very feature rich and don't break the bank. Being newer to the market, they still have a ways to go before getting the "time tested" designation. But overall reported performance thus far is very favorable.
I have had two of them for a short while now and have been very pleased. I really love the auto-wake and shut-off features. The glass clarity and adjustment controls are excellent. I haven't had to use their service department, but the interactions I've had when making a couple inquires have been superb.
Of course, you could always go with an Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon etc. There you'll get the time tested stamp of approval (maybe less so for Eotech). The suggestions that you should buy something cheap because your rifle is cheap/crap are comical. Whatever optic you select isn't automatically committed to only be run on this one single rifle. If the rifle actually were junk, at least you'd have a solid optic to run when you upgrade or replace it. So, it's just a bit curious that the solution to buying junk, is to buy more junk.
All in all, welcome to the black rifle fraternity. If you actually ever run into issues, speak up. There are plenty of people who'll be happy to help you diagnose and make corrections.
NotoriousBRT
09-25-17, 01:31
OP - Enjoy the rifle and ignore the noise. The only way to vet and trust a rifle is to shoot it. So do exactly that. Learn the platform and how to maintain it. Forget the rabid inferences that your rifle is garbage. The idea that, outside of a select few brands, a mfg/assembler cannot produce a perfectly serviceable rifle is utter nonsense.
Your fault isn't that you purchased the wrong rifle. Instead, it's that you happened to mention it in the wrong forum. PSA, along with many other brands, will not be treated objectively by a vocal segment in the community. As soon as you realize that, the better off you'll be. Most ARs will run just fine. Some will have minor issues. Even fewer will have major problems. And that goes for all of the brands.
The "Freedom" model you purchased is from the same line that made it through AKOU's 5,000 round torture test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crdPv6nAQwU
In that same test, a DD M4V11 stalled out in the first 2,500 rounds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IJU0zm1glY
They were eventually able to get the DD back into action and it finished the test. But, it failed nonetheless. The point is, there are no foregone conclusions. The above data points provided are simply that; single data points. It doesn't make the DD a bad rifle, and doesn't make the PSA the best rifle.
Interestingly enough, the guys at AKOU couldn't actually figure out why the DD stalled. Odds are, something got into the FCG and made its way out when they broke it down. The takeaway there is that the overwhelming majority of failures, for the platform in general, have little to do with substandard components. Instead, they will result from debris/cleanliness or ties to the magazines.
Now, seeing that you didn't even come here because you were having problems with the rifle, let me actually provide some input in reference to your actual question. As far as optics, I'd agree with others that Holosun has pretty much changed the game when it comes to mid-range red dot sights. They're very feature rich and don't break the bank. Being newer to the market, they still have a ways to go before getting the "time tested" designation. But overall reported performance thus far is very favorable.
I have had two of them for a short while now and have been very pleased. I really love the auto-wake and shut-off features. The glass clarity and adjustment controls are excellent. I haven't had to use their service department, but the interactions I've had when making a couple inquires have been superb.
Of course, you could always go with an Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon etc. There you'll get the time tested stamp of approval (maybe less so for Eotech). The suggestions that you should buy something cheap because your rifle is cheap/crap are comical. Whatever optic you select isn't automatically committed to only be run on this one single rifle. If the rifle actually were junk, at least you'd have a solid optic to run when you upgrade or replace it. So, it's just a bit curious that the solution to buying junk, is to buy more junk.
All in all, welcome to the black rifle fraternity. If you actually ever run into issues, speak up. There are plenty of people who'll be happy to help you diagnose and make corrections.
Good post there. PSA wouldn't be my go to rifle to jump out of a helo in a warzone, but they seem to be pretty damn good for the money. I'm about to order a nitride barrel from them for the rifle I keep in the truck. It sure can't be any worse than the one it came with (Ruger, shoots okay but the finish is awful, rusts every time a dark cloud passes by).
Paladinius
09-27-17, 11:24
Thus always the knee-jerk reaction to certain un-approved brands on this forum.
Enjoy your rifle, learn, shoot a LOT. Take GOOD training. Accesorize your rifle well, so that Aimpoint can move to the next rifle you buy when you know exactly what you want from experience.
I've got half a dozen "Tier One[emoji3]" ARs. I have 3 PSAs as truck/trunk guns. One has well over 6,000 rounds through it. My grandson, who I steered to BCM for his first rifle, frequently comments that my PSA does everything his BCM does for 1/3 the price. And he knows, having shot several cases of that 6K+. I never intended to shoot several times the price of this rifle in ammo. It was supposed to sit in the truck and be maintained more than shot, BUT I got a bug up my ass about MY judgement/experience vs Tommy Tactical Forum's opinion. Now I know.
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If $200 is going to make or break someone's budget on buying a quality AR, maybe someone shouldn't be buying an AR at all. They should be getting their finances in order first. I don't think anyone here would be suggesting a $150 Hi-Point over a $350 used Glock for HD.
Evel Baldgui
09-27-17, 13:43
Are you guys seriously arguing about cheap AR's ?? Geez, I've seen a basic colt 6920 go for about $700, if ones budget is so limited that $200-300 is of significance perhaps the funds are better spent elsewhere. If a firearm is needed for self defense, used quality 9mm pistols are readily available at a variety of sources.
titsonritz
09-27-17, 18:03
Are you guys seriously arguing about cheap AR's ?? Geez, I've seen a basic colt 6920 go for about $700, if ones budget is so limited that $200-300 is of significance perhaps the funds are better spent elsewhere. If a firearm is needed for self defense, used quality 9mm pistols are readily available at a variety of sources.
As are pump shotguns.
It's about education. In spite of the vast wealth of information that is literally at their fingertips, some will buy second rate guns because the guy behind the counter told them, "When you buy a Colt, your just paying for the name".
titsonritz
09-27-17, 19:17
It's about education. In spite of the vast wealth of information that is literally at their fingertips, some will buy second rate guns because the guy behind the counter told them, "When you buy a Colt, your just paying for the name".
If you are taking advice from the guy behind the counter, you are an uninformed consumer, ought to fix that.
I understand why a PSA would appeal to a shooter on a budget. I understand why people think that M4C's membership are snobs.
However, I look at it this way:
The collective knowledge of M4C are hard facts largely contributed by men who are professional warriors, armorers, and shooters. Men who need ultimate reliability and proven performance from their weapons, ammunition and tactics. Much of this information has been hard won through dear experience. The high signal to noise ratio on this forum is precisely what sets it apart.
The collective membership who made this forum what it is want to defend its high signal, low noise status.
It sometimes means telling or hearing a hard truth. The truth is often something that one doesn't necessarily want to hear.
One PSA rifle may perform just fine, another, not so much. Therefore, PSA does not enjoy the reputation of Colt or BCM. PSA does not turn out consistent quality.
I think many members here own or have owned budget ARs. I once had a Bushmaster. When I found out about its reputation I was not very happy, but glad to find serious information.
Your PSA and my Bushmaster are not bad for their intended use, the range only.
The world of firearms is fraught with misinformation, rumors, outright lies, and anecdotal single sample statistics.
This site is an anomaly in that world.
I understand why a PSA would appeal to a shooter on a budget. I understand why people think that M4C's membership are snobs.
.
I think you are on point with your entire post, but I'm only going to comment on the first two things you touched on.
I can most certainly understand why people want to love the cheapest item possible, and why a cheap PSA has strong appeal for beginner shooters. There is a larger firearm website that is devoted to people who like the idea of talking about the AR15, but without an actual knowledge base. There are certainly people who are credible and knowledgeable over there, but the amount is so small it is hardly worth discussing.
As a firearm community, by large, there is one substantial difference between this board and most others. Here, the persons who spout factually incorrect information are called out. This site has a higher amount of people posting with real world first hand knowledge, as opposed to people quoting what they read online. The bottom of the barrel brands are there for solid reasons. That doesn't mean they won't function, but they are not considered lower tier for good reason.
For this poster to state after over 3 years of being on this site, "And while I realize this isn't the faciest hotrod rifle out there, it seems to be a solid piece."... it is hard to think of them as having paid attention to anyone credible in their entire time here, especially when the weapon is in transit to their FFL and hasn't been even unpacked.
It is my hope that Buck finds his new weapon to be flawless and exceptional. I don't ever like to see people waste money, or to find out later they have made poor choices.
Sorry but most of your post is nothing more than being apologist for shitty brands. I suggest you get out more and see the world. Go enroll in a real carbine class where they shoot a few hundo rounds per day. You'll find out quickly what sets most of these AR's apart.
I see and hear this regularly from people who attend my courses. I have seen the shoddy PSA assembly first hand on dozens of their guns and the cavalier attitude that was taken when it was brought up to their people.
OP - Enjoy the rifle and ignore the noise. The only way to vet and trust a rifle is to shoot it. So do exactly that. Learn the platform and how to maintain it. Forget the rabid inferences that your rifle is garbage. The idea that, outside of a select few brands, a mfg/assembler cannot produce a perfectly serviceable rifle is utter nonsense.
Your fault isn't that you purchased the wrong rifle. Instead, it's that you happened to mention it in the wrong forum. PSA, along with many other brands, will not be treated objectively by a vocal segment in the community. As soon as you realize that, the better off you'll be. Most ARs will run just fine. Some will have minor issues. Even fewer will have major problems. And that goes for all of the brands.
The "Freedom" model you purchased is from the same line that made it through AKOU's 5,000 round torture test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crdPv6nAQwU
In that same test, a DD M4V11 stalled out in the first 2,500 rounds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IJU0zm1glY
They were eventually able to get the DD back into action and it finished the test. But, it failed nonetheless. The point is, there are no foregone conclusions. The above data points provided are simply that; single data points. It doesn't make the DD a bad rifle, and doesn't make the PSA the best rifle.
Interestingly enough, the guys at AKOU couldn't actually figure out why the DD stalled. Odds are, something got into the FCG and made its way out when they broke it down. The takeaway there is that the overwhelming majority of failures, for the platform in general, have little to do with substandard components. Instead, they will result from debris/cleanliness or ties to the magazines.
Now, seeing that you didn't even come here because you were having problems with the rifle, let me actually provide some input in reference to your actual question. As far as optics, I'd agree with others that Holosun has pretty much changed the game when it comes to mid-range red dot sights. They're very feature rich and don't break the bank. Being newer to the market, they still have a ways to go before getting the "time tested" designation. But overall reported performance thus far is very favorable.
I have had two of them for a short while now and have been very pleased. I really love the auto-wake and shut-off features. The glass clarity and adjustment controls are excellent. I haven't had to use their service department, but the interactions I've had when making a couple inquires have been superb.
Of course, you could always go with an Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon etc. There you'll get the time tested stamp of approval (maybe less so for Eotech). The suggestions that you should buy something cheap because your rifle is cheap/crap are comical. Whatever optic you select isn't automatically committed to only be run on this one single rifle. If the rifle actually were junk, at least you'd have a solid optic to run when you upgrade or replace it. So, it's just a bit curious that the solution to buying junk, is to buy more junk.
All in all, welcome to the black rifle fraternity. If you actually ever run into issues, speak up. There are plenty of people who'll be happy to help you diagnose and make corrections.
Sorry but most of your post is nothing more than being apologist for shitty brands. I suggest you get out more and see the world. Go enroll in a real carbine class where they shoot a few hundo rounds per day. You'll find out quickly what sets most of these AR's apart.
I see and hear this regularly from people who attend my courses. I have seen the shoddy PSA assembly first hand on dozens of their guns and the cavalier attitude that was taken when it was brought up to their people.
This.
It's about education. In spite of the vast wealth of information that is literally at their fingertips, some will buy second rate guns because the guy behind the counter told them, "When you buy a Colt, your just paying for the name".Actually I disagree with that. You're right but the wealth of knowledge imo is very limited. This place and places like it are few and far between. 99% of reviews online are positive.....for just about any firearm. What I typically see is ...."goes bang every time", "shot 500 rounds without a hiccup", "owned it for XX years without a problem". IF there are bad reviews it's typically related to fit and finish. Someone finds a blemish and goes on a tirade about how they were wronged. You really have to dig deep and hard to find legit reviews and most gun buyers aren't going to take a chance loosing out on a purchase to go home and spend a few days doing research
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Go enroll in a real carbine class where they shoot a few hundo rounds per day. You'll find out quickly what sets most of these AR's apart.
I see and hear this regularly from people who attend my courses. I have seen the shoddy PSA assembly first hand on dozens of their guns and the cavalier attitude that was taken when it was brought up to their people.
Let's see 3,000 rounds, that is 500 a day in my select-fire instructor course. Actual round count was closer to 2,400 or 2,500. Of that, about 1/3 was auto - burst not dumps. One of the first classes I gave, about a decade ago, was for an agency using new Bushmasters. Extractor problems right out of the box. Bushmaster next day aired them new bolts and they were good to go the rest of the course. At the time we didn't stock enough parts to fix them on the range. I do not know if the agency had to return the bolts or if they kept them as spares.
The only other problems I've had during the courses I've taught - patrol rifle, patrol rifle instructor - were with LESO rifles and most of them were, obviously maintenance issues.
Now, I want to be clear, I'm not some big time traveling instructor, but I've seen some rifles through programs I ran. Maybe it the law enforcement 'you use what the agency issues' mentality, but I've never gotten too wrapped up about roll marks on rifles.
I get it that folks are biased, we had such bad luck with our Mossberg 500's that I wouldn't have one, but yet I've managed to teach a lot of students using them in our basic course, our firearms instructor course, shotgun instructor, and tac shotgun/less-lethal instructor.
Likewise, there are auto-pistols that are abominations to use teaching new shooters - S&W Sigma comes to mind - but you drive on.
As I said, maybe that 'use what the agency issues' mindset colors my perception.
As a former military parachutist and jumpmaster, I chuckle at folks worrying about cam pins that aren't showing wear, they'd shit if they ever saw the run-of-the-mill pack opening spring bands on the T-10 reserves we used after they'd been issued and JMPI'ed a dozen times.
Buy the best rifle you can afford, or choose to spend money on, shoot it, correct problems if any, shoot it. Maintain it. It is not that complicated.
Actually I disagree with that. You're right but the wealth of knowledge imo is very limited. This place and places like it are few and far between. 99% of reviews online are positive.....for just about any firearm. What I typically see is ...."goes bang every time", "shot 500 rounds without a hiccup", "owned it for XX years without a problem". IF there are bad reviews it's typically related to fit and finish. Someone finds a blemish and goes on a tirade about how they were wronged. You really have to dig deep and hard to find legit reviews and most gun buyers aren't going to take a chance loosing out on a purchase to go home and spend a few days doing research
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You're correct about it requiring some effort to wade through the BS and get the "real" accurate information. My whole point was that most cheap AR buyers are lazy when it comes to that. They would rather just buy the gun the store employees tell them is "just as good" and get that immediate satisfaction.
indianalex01
09-28-17, 12:01
Now days, there really is no excuse to not buy a solid well built M4. The prices are so good. You can get a genuine 6920 or 6721 for 680-780$. Unheard of prices. A proven combat rifle that you can go to war with. Don't cut corners when it comes to a weapon you may have to defend your life with.
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