View Full Version : You are in charge of US Domestic Policy - what is your solution to urban poverty?
Eurodriver
09-21-17, 08:01
The St Louis thread kind of got off track, so I moved it to its own thread.
How would the US get places like Vine City in Atlanta, or South Dallas, or South Chicago, or Little Haiti/Hialeah near Miami back on track?
First a complete overhaul of our public education system from the ground up. It is rediculously outdated Prussian style nonsense. We are not pumping out factory workers anymore, yet that's the system of education we cling to. We need critical thinkers.
Next is deregulating just about every industry to the point they can make money and prosper here again. I'm not talking chaos, I'm talking minimum regulatory and licensing requirements and tax incentives for start ups. We need fresh blood in every sector and we need to revitalize lost industry's.
Next get rid of war on drugs. This is a huge factor in the perpetuation of poverty. Put some of that WOD money into rehabilitation programs and back to work programs. When in the hood you can make good dough slanging drugs and all it does is perpetuate violence, addiction and the cycle of poverty.
Next would be to have much stricter guidelines on assistance programs. They all need to be program based to get people back into the work force and earning for themselves again.
Next would be to attack the gang culture. Music, Hollywood, tv etc- all glorify it. That culture will never cease to exist, but we need to battle it more successfully.
Stop funding the rest of the worlds bullshit and focus our attention here at home. We have real problems in our own backyard that have been all but ignored for decades.
We need to stop enabling these folks to perpetuate the cycle. Whomever genuinely wants out and shows that with actions- give them what they need. Whomever doesn't- cut them off quickly and let them rot from within.
There needs to be a culture shift, that's the hardest part because it has to happen from within these communities by their own hands. Time and time again we've seen that assistance means nothing if these communities aren't willing to change for themselves. We need to be honest about this and realize there are going to be those that don't want to, cannot and will not change. Leave them to their own destruction and put energy into those that want to change.
There is no simple solution but the above would be a great way to start in my opinion.
Cut down on the welfare. Its work or starve.
Militia on the border. Remove illegals by force. Their jobs can go to Americans on welfare.
Its that simple.
Scale back the WOD and mandatory sentencing (sometimes you just can't save people from themselves), at least for non-dealers. Set strict guidelines for assistance, even tapering it off as you make more $$$ instead of an arbitrary "Bam, you're done" once income hits a certain level. There are jobs out there, no one wants to work them though.
As previously mentioned, the bulk of the effort would have to come from within those communities themselves. That will be the fly in the ointment of any "answer" to the question posed.
Cut down on the welfare. Its work or starve.
Militia on the border. Remove illegals by force. Their jobs can go to Americans on welfare.
Its that simple.
And by doing that we can free up the $150 Billion a year that the US spends supporting illegals and roll it into education or whatever.
The St Louis thread kind of got off track, so I moved it to its own thread.
How would the US get places like Vine City in Atlanta, or South Dallas, or South Chicago, or Little Haiti/Hialeah near Miami back on track?
In the case of Vine city, the bluff, and similar, it's just a matter of earmarking millions in urban development, attracting companies to build big devlopments, etc. Oh wait, thy tried that over 40 years. Did not work.
There is a path to reclaim areas... Let the the relentless drive of Real Estate and development pressure act. But to work it essentially has two clear cut large enough areas to establish a stable community. And that displaces locals. It has worked in areas of Bankhead, Marietta Avenue, and similar in Atlanta. These were derelict wastelands 30 years ago.
Unfortunately it does not address your question.
Since I believe the root cause is tied into multiple very complex things, the fix has to come by changing those factors. Specifically: Gov tampering/enablement, accepted cultural behaviors, environment and finally, free will/willingness to try to change.
Until there is willingness to admit that these are factors are the issue, rather than excuse them, they will never be fixed.
I know and work with many very successful African-American individuals and families. They generally all have one thing in common. They moved away from culturally accepted norms for their demographic and played the game. Others would say they sold out to their culture. They still keep their traditions. But they work to align to the cultural norms of the group they want to participate in.
So I grew up in the south, and over the years lived and spent much time in very rural areas. I know that if I had refused to dress per business norms and insisted on keeping my cultural legacies, I probably would not have gotten my job, much less been successful.
Clothes, dialect, hygiene, these things influence people whether they should or not. A homeless person probably deserves help here. Can't help that condition. Someone wearing extremely expensive Nike shoes, iphone, bling, nails, hair extensions, tattoos, it's clearly not an affordability issue it's a prioritization issue. Add to that expensive Wheels literally and figuratively.
Example: I find overalls very practical clothing, especially for working around my place. But there is a negative cultural image associated with those that heavily exist. It's the poor, backwards, rural farmer. I still wear them, and sometimes intentionally do it for shock value and just to annoy narrow-minded people. But I would never wear them to a business event, or insist that it's my cultural heritage.
The same would happen if I insisted on wearing military clothing, inappropriate dress is inappropriate. You will be judged.
Likewise dialect. Jeff Foxworthy says it best, he was an IBM engineer, but when he joined a conference call and they heard his accent his perceived IQ went down by half. I live that world, have largely scrubbed all evidence from my work speech. I still use colorful phrases that make some wince even though their perfectly valid. But they show a regional association that still has a cultural stereotype. And I'm not talking Andy Griffin Dukes of Hazzard stuff, show just something other than neutral Midwest or typical Northeast speech.
These are just examples of cultural differences and how they can impact success. The world would be a very boring place if we didn't have these cultural differences. At the same time excusing or even making it politically incorrect to even acknowledge that this might be a problem, condemns those to remain trapped in that world.
Add in cultural things like baby daddy mindset, bling mindset, etc, and it's worse. Yet many elevate people behaving outside cultural norms if they are an artist or a sports star. They become role models in some of these communities. And yet if you didn't have the exceptional Talent OR luck that got those people there, emulating them is a recipe for failure.
I know many people who escaped. I grew up, worked around, and still live around others who did not. It's pretty easy to tell the difference. They try. They play the game.
Some of these cultural norms were government inflicted directly or indirectly. The loss of the male Father Figure in some communities I believe is the largest negative impact. I asked a black friend that I worked with back with why did you stay in school, get good grades, and stay out of trouble. Despite all the temptations and potential prejudices of his world. He said: "because my dad would have kicked my ass if I didn't". Same as my answer. Pretty straightforward. Moms can make up some of that, and many do. But you really need two parents, are at a disadvantage without that.
This is politically toxic to say, much less try to fix. Try it, as soon as you head down this path you will be labeled as racist AND misogynist.
Even when someone like Ben Carson says very straightforward things about how he was able to escape, the very demographic that would benefit attacks him, and calls him Uncle Tom. He's not the only one, there are many others.
My view is you'll never be able to fix this situation while that attack behavior exist.
I love the people trying to break out. I went to school with them, had them as roommates, and now I frequent the places of business of poor folks chasing their dream and try to support their efforts. They don't make excuses, they focus on their goal. I see Latin American families doing the same. Asian families have mastered it.
To me, excusing/defending behaviors is form of cultural slavery, probably started with the Great Society and the sixties. Up until that point the African-American Community was doing very well becoming a functioning part of mainstream Society. On an upward track. In spite of some very horrible conditions and prejudices. So why did it get worse when those largely went away, or at least were pushed underground.
The only good news is the signs of red pill thinking. People like diamond and silk, others. Meanwhile Mainstream media and political activists excuse the blatant lies of BLM and the grievance mongers.
I don't expect this issue to be solved in my lifetime, it is a generational problem. Firefly pointed out how poisoning some of the cultural norms are. And environmental norms. Those have to be addressed or there will be no progress.
-Less top heavy brass, more police on the street
-Actual police training with long term optics
-Real calls only, total hiatus on revenue generation
-Reorganization of the Project system with 5 year plan to reach actual housing
-De-incentivizing over reproduction
-A reshifted tax burden (i.e. Section 8 becomes less like a hammock and more like a student loan)
-Total disbanding and re-organizing of HUD
-Re-structure of the school system
-"Clean streets mean clean streets" residents of public or assisted housing are required to keep all property maintained and to code.
-De-criminalization of drugs and treat it more as a health issue than a criminal one.
-"Move it or lose it" policy. If subject cannot make progress in one assisted housing area; they are relocated to another area with a fresh start. They are then given a year before they are re-evaluated and dropped
-complete de-centralization of the Project system
-De-incentivizing school sports programs. School is for school. Play sports on own time
-Mandatory GED/Job training for adult residents of government housing
-No redistricting for votes
Whomever still wants to be "that guy" can end up in jail, but a lot would seize the opportunities
Just my ideas
War on drugs. Gone.
Next case, your honor.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
-Less top heavy brass, more police on the street
-Actual police training with long term optics
-Real calls only, total hiatus on revenue generation
-Reorganization of the Project system with 5 year plan to reach actual housing
-De-incentivizing over reproduction
-A reshifted tax burden (i.e. Section 8 becomes less like a hammock and more like a student loan)
-Total disbanding and re-organizing of HUD
-Re-structure of the school system
-"Clean streets mean clean streets" residents of public or assisted housing are required to keep all property maintained and to code.
-De-criminalization of drugs and treat it more as a health issue than a criminal one.
-"Move it or lose it" policy. If subject cannot make progress in one assisted housing area; they are relocated to another area with a fresh start. They are then given a year before they are re-evaluated and dropped
-complete de-centralization of the Project system
-De-incentivizing school sports programs. School is for school. Play sports on own time
-Mandatory GED/Job training for adult residents of government housing
-No redistricting for votes
Whomever still wants to be "that guy" can end up in jail, but a lot would seize the opportunities
Just my ideas
I'm with you except the sports. Sports are the only shot a lot of these kids have at getting into higher ed.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
Rightsize growth and gentrification. Someone making $8/hour can't afford their home/rent when the value increases 500% because the hipsters decide living in the hood is a good thing....
This is a full-city, top-to-bottom investment: gotta have jobs, better paying jobs (not backed by the mandatory minimum wage), affordable housing, and diversified infrastructure.
No more war on drugs. There is 80% of your problem gone.
The last 20% is culture. The prominent culture, especially of the under 35 age group is deplorable.
-Gang Culture needs to no longer be idolized.
-Drug culture needs to no longer be idolized.
-Teen boys need to not think getting a girl pregnant 'makes you a man' Being there for your wife and kid is what makes you a man
-74% of kids growing up with out fathers is a serious problem, see above.
Where do these ideas get propagated and spread? Entertainment. Music is a huge one, when you get some unintelligible uneducated ignorant moron incoherently mumble some shit about drugs and bitches and he gets idolized, you're feeding that shit to your kids. When you listen to that and say its good, your kid hears it and learns its good, and there for infers the message is good.
While the war on drugs would be an immediate effect, changing culture takes generations. In 1965 75% of blacks had a nuclear family, 1983 we were down to 50%, today less than 30%. This took years and generation to happen, it will take years and generations to be reversed. Here is an interesting article from 1983 http://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/20/us/breakup-of-black-family-imperils-gains-of-decades.html?pagewanted=all&mcubz=0 Interesting because its about half way between desegregation/civil rights and today.
Lastly I'd cut welfare. No one should starve to death, no one needs to die of exposure. But the idea there should be 'dignity' to welfare is totally ****ed to me. There is no dignity to not being able to put a basic amount of food in your life. Welfare should be a last resort, not a life style choice. Keep feeding kids in school, the shit their parents do is not their fault, they shouldn't go hungry because mom spent welfare on crack.
We need another cultural shift, or at least to stop it before it goes to far. This shift crosses all races and incomes. As Americans 'living wage' should not be considered enough to have a family, and a two bedrooms, and all that crap. A 'living wage' should mean you are not starving, it should mean you and a few other people can afford to share an apartment and gasp, even rooms in said apartment. When you work a McDonalds doing your absolute minimum you should not be able to afford a family. A family is a luxury and it is earned through hard work and good choices. If you are finically struggling having a child is a hugely irresponsible choice, and its a choice. Poor communities would be a lot richer with less mouths to feed.
There needs to be a culture shift, that's the hardest part because it has to happen from within these communities by their own hands. Time and time again we've seen that assistance means nothing if these communities aren't willing to change for themselves. We need to be honest about this and realize there are going to be those that don't want to, cannot and will not change. Leave them to their own destruction and put energy into those that want to change.
Truer words have never been spoken!
Most of the problem is MOST of these people are content letting other people take care of them and complaining about how unfair they're treated and how bad they have it. They don't want to do anything about it. They want to be the victim. It's generation after generation after generation.
They can kill each other every day as well as other people who they truly victimize and they're fine with that....just don't do anything to their sweet little angels with violent criminal records thicker then phone books....then they riot. They had their man in Obama for 8 years and they just got worst. Good luck fixing it!
I grew up in a city. I was part of the "White Flight Movement" out of the city....glad I'm gone. We left and they DETROYED pretty good neighborhoods we left them. Notice I'm a little numb to their $h!t.
NYH1.
Quit providing a free living.
Limit entitlements to 3 months.
Publicly promote the benefits of honest work.
Publicly promote good decision making.
Publicly promote the nuclear family.
Quit teaching everyone they are special.
Equal justice under the law
Shut down the borders.
Allow only socially and economically beneficial immigrants..
5 of these the government could actually do and save the tax payers while doing it. Hollywood and social media could fix the other 4 and continue to make money.When people see they HAVE to provide for themselves, they'll do it or, well, die.
-Less top heavy brass, more police on the street
-Actual police training with long term optics
-Real calls only, total hiatus on revenue generation
-Reorganization of the Project system with 5 year plan to reach actual housing
-De-incentivizing over reproduction
-A reshifted tax burden (i.e. Section 8 becomes less like a hammock and more like a student loan)
-Total disbanding and re-organizing of HUD
-Re-structure of the school system
-"Clean streets mean clean streets" residents of public or assisted housing are required to keep all property maintained and to code.
-De-criminalization of drugs and treat it more as a health issue than a criminal one.
-"Move it or lose it" policy. If subject cannot make progress in one assisted housing area; they are relocated to another area with a fresh start. They are then given a year before they are re-evaluated and dropped
-complete de-centralization of the Project system
-De-incentivizing school sports programs. School is for school. Play sports on own time
-Mandatory GED/Job training for adult residents of government housing
-No redistricting for votes
Agreed on every single item
I grew up in a city. I was part of the "White Flight Movement" out of the city....glad I'm gone. We left and they DETROYED pretty good neighborhoods we left them.
White flight is being replaced with gentrification. When the exodus occurred in every major city, value and prices plummeted, and the whole inner city went to shit. Now it's chic and hip to buy those places and turn them into lofts and coffee houses and studios and galleries. All of that is good and all except that is raises the values and thus taxes for everyone. While I enjoy going to the former 'hood to swill expensive microbrews as much as the next guy, I don't know what the answer is.
No more war on drugs. There is 80% of your problem gone.
The last 20% is culture. The prominent culture, especially of the under 35 age group is deplorable.
-Gang Culture needs to no longer be idolized.
-Drug culture needs to no longer be idolized.
-Teen boys need to not think getting a girl pregnant 'makes you a man' Being there for your wife and kid is what makes you a man
-74% of kids growing up with out fathers is a serious problem, see above.
Nope.
The majority of problem is too many people with too much time on their hands getting free handouts, getting paid to breed.
Everything you listed is a symptom of the problem, not the problem.
SomeOtherGuy
09-21-17, 11:59
The St Louis thread kind of got off track, so I moved it to its own thread.
How would the US get places like Vine City in Atlanta, or South Dallas, or South Chicago, or Little Haiti/Hialeah near Miami back on track?
Define "back on track". Do you want them to be yuppievilles, or clean and safe but modest working-class areas, or lush farm fields without much human presence, or what?
When you say "back on track" - were these areas once prosperous and healthy? Of the four I only know South Chicago at all, and it was never all that great from the first (white European) settlement onward. You may find that in some areas the skin color has changed but little else has. Like parts of Los Angeles?
Are you judging an area's health by how well it matches the characteristics of prosperous suburbs with low crime? Or by how it matches the characteristics of other cities with the same racial-ethnic makeup? Maybe by industry present there and/or jobs held by the residents? Or by what?
FlyingHunter
09-21-17, 12:32
Stop. All. Subsidies.
White flight is being replaced with gentrification. When the exodus occurred in every major city, value and prices plummeted, and the whole inner city went to shit. Now it's chic and hip to buy those places and turn them into lofts and coffee houses and studios and galleries. All of that is good and all except that is raises the values and thus taxes for everyone. While I enjoy going to the former 'hood to swill expensive microbrews as much as the next guy, I don't know what the answer is.
I guess I should have said I can only speak for my area. These neighborhoods aren't being turned into lofts and coffee houses and studios and galleries. They're being turned into gang infested, dangerous drive-by, walk-by, walk-up to shooting, stabbing, drug dealing and houses being torn down, not fixed when in disrepair. Won't even mow the lawn. Sit on the porch all day long with a Caddy in the driveway, buffed out to every jagged line of rust with 22's on it....won't mow the lawn.
The worst part about my old neighborhood was during the school day when they bused in the kids that didn't live there. Once they went home, most things went back to normal. Now it's armed robbery after armed robbery after shooting after shooting after....well you get the point. Sure there was trouble every once in a while from within, that always happens. Nothing like now.
My parents still live there. Complain about it all the time. House has been paid off since the mid 90's, property values go down every year, taxes go up. They own another house, nice ranch type on a pretty big lot out in the burbs that they rent out. I tell them all the time they're crazy. They like their tenants, they're good people. I'm sure they are. My families and my own well being is more important then good tenants. My dad has a nice garage and all the toys in it. He could build 100 garages....CRAZY!
NYH1.
Crow Hunter
09-21-17, 12:59
In the case of Vine city, the bluff, and similar, it's just a matter of earmarking millions in urban development, attracting companies to build big devlopments, etc. Oh wait, thy tried that over 40 years. Did not work.
There is a path to reclaim areas... Let the the relentless drive of Real Estate and development pressure act. But to work it essentially has two clear cut large enough areas to establish a stable community. And that displaces locals. It has worked in areas of Bankhead, Marietta Avenue, and similar in Atlanta. These were derelict wastelands 30 years ago.
Unfortunately it does not address your question.
Since I believe the root cause is tied into multiple very complex things, the fix has to come by changing those factors. Specifically: Gov tampering/enablement, accepted cultural behaviors, environment and finally, free will/willingness to try to change.
Until there is willingness to admit that these are factors are the issue, rather than excuse them, they will never be fixed.
I know and work with many very successful African-American individuals and families. They generally all have one thing in common. They moved away from culturally accepted norms for their demographic and played the game. Others would say they sold out to their culture. They still keep their traditions. But they work to align to the cultural norms of the group they want to participate in.
So I grew up in the south, and over the years lived and spent much time in very rural areas. I know that if I had refused to dress per business norms and insisted on keeping my cultural legacies, I probably would not have gotten my job, much less been successful.
Clothes, dialect, hygiene, these things influence people whether they should or not. A homeless person probably deserves help here. Can't help that condition. Someone wearing extremely expensive Nike shoes, iphone, bling, nails, hair extensions, tattoos, it's clearly not an affordability issue it's a prioritization issue. Add to that expensive Wheels literally and figuratively.
Example: I find overalls very practical clothing, especially for working around my place. But there is a negative cultural image associated with those that heavily exist. It's the poor, backwards, rural farmer. I still wear them, and sometimes intentionally do it for shock value and just to annoy narrow-minded people. But I would never wear them to a business event, or insist that it's my cultural heritage.
The same would happen if I insisted on wearing military clothing, inappropriate dress is inappropriate. You will be judged.
Likewise dialect. Jeff Foxworthy says it best, he was an IBM engineer, but when he joined a conference call and they heard his accent his perceived IQ went down by half. I live that world, have largely scrubbed all evidence from my work speech. I still use colorful phrases that make some wince even though their perfectly valid. But they show a regional association that still has a cultural stereotype. And I'm not talking Andy Griffin Dukes of Hazzard stuff, show just something other than neutral Midwest or typical Northeast speech.
These are just examples of cultural differences and how they can impact success. The world would be a very boring place if we didn't have these cultural differences. At the same time excusing or even making it politically incorrect to even acknowledge that this might be a problem, condemns those to remain trapped in that world.
Add in cultural things like baby daddy mindset, bling mindset, etc, and it's worse. Yet many elevate people behaving outside cultural norms if they are an artist or a sports star. They become role models in some of these communities. And yet if you didn't have the exceptional Talent OR luck that got those people there, emulating them is a recipe for failure.
I know many people who escaped. I grew up, worked around, and still live around others who did not. It's pretty easy to tell the difference. They try. They play the game.
Some of these cultural norms were government inflicted directly or indirectly. The loss of the male Father Figure in some communities I believe is the largest negative impact. I asked a black friend that I worked with back with why did you stay in school, get good grades, and stay out of trouble. Despite all the temptations and potential prejudices of his world. He said: "because my dad would have kicked my ass if I didn't". Same as my answer. Pretty straightforward. Moms can make up some of that, and many do. But you really need two parents, are at a disadvantage without that.
This is politically toxic to say, much less try to fix. Try it, as soon as you head down this path you will be labeled as racist AND misogynist.
Even when someone like Ben Carson says very straightforward things about how he was able to escape, the very demographic that would benefit attacks him, and calls him Uncle Tom. He's not the only one, there are many others.
My view is you'll never be able to fix this situation while that attack behavior exist.
I love the people trying to break out. I went to school with them, had them as roommates, and now I frequent the places of business of poor folks chasing their dream and try to support their efforts. They don't make excuses, they focus on their goal. I see Latin American families doing the same. Asian families have mastered it.
To me, excusing/defending behaviors is form of cultural slavery, probably started with the Great Society and the sixties. Up until that point the African-American Community was doing very well becoming a functioning part of mainstream Society. On an upward track. In spite of some very horrible conditions and prejudices. So why did it get worse when those largely went away, or at least were pushed underground.
The only good news is the signs of red pill thinking. People like diamond and silk, others. Meanwhile Mainstream media and political activists excuse the blatant lies of BLM and the grievance mongers.
I don't expect this issue to be solved in my lifetime, it is a generational problem. Firefly pointed out how poisoning some of the cultural norms are. And environmental norms. Those have to be addressed or there will be no progress.
This.
I have a similar background. I am an engineer and I have faced it for years, when I speak with a Southern dialect, people immediately assume I don't know what I am talking about. I tone it down and now suddenly I am a "genius".:rolleyes:
My best friend from Kindergarten is black. His Mother and Father pushed him and all of his brothers and sisters (pushed me too:D). He has a PhD and lives in a suburb of Boston (he also masks his dialect, more even than me), he is the only PhD, but his sister and all but one of his brothers graduated from college and are quite successful and the brother without the PhD has a nice farm.
But they weren't and aren't typical for the area, but they COULD be.
How do we as Americans do that? I have no idea but starting with the family would be a great building block.
We could spin our wheels all day with potential policy changes but the problem is that the majority of our families (black especially; the leftists are working hard on the rest of you) are broken. Broken family units, along with weak moral values being taught, if they're being taught at all. That needs to change first. Real families, with a father and a mother, and good values being taught, not the "cater to everybody's feelings and impulses" crap peddled today.
It requires a change from within. The change will make it much easier to reverse everything else.
Bring back shame and guilt. Somewhere along the descending road, someone decided that shame and guilt were bad for people, and no one had a right to shame or find guilt in others. Shame and guilt are good for people. Without shame or guilt, there's no negative reinforcement in play to reinforce positive behaviors. Being charged and convicted of a crime doesn't do jack squat to reinforce good behaviors. It happens so rarely to begin with and it only happens on a single day somewhere a long way down the road, for a single bad act. You have to shame people and create guilt in their minds on a routine basis to reinforce the NEED for good behaviors.
One of the most unpleasant aspects of my career is when I have to tell people when their performance is inadequate or unsatisfactory. It isn't pleasant for me and it's even less pleasant for them. I don't enjoy telling people they suck, but I have to in order to gain their compliance. The majority of them will suck it up and do what they must in order to improve. The few that won't do that will ultimately pay for their refusal to get with the program. If you don't set and enforce community standards you'll NEVER improve the community, regardless of how much time, money and energy you expend on the efforts. :(
someone will always be poorer! there is no fix
but handouts are a huge problem to those lazy to sit back and take and criminals will always take advantage
I lived in the Caribbean most every one of my friends was in extreme poverty yet they were awesome friendly and happy for the most part
some in that same financial level were criminals
separate the two
how do you reduce it?
no handouts to anyone on drugs or in gangs and severe penalties if ever gaming the system and stricken off the list for good
any and all work for it ! the few who truly cant surely can do paperwork or other things to help the system and those who truly can't get what they need but all others its a limited work forward thing meaning you will run out of free unless you put in more work than taking
all handouts are in actual food or certain energy amount given etc.. not ebt cards
problem here is the state of mind of many thing they are owed etc.. its become the problem not poverty itself
maybe ship those whining off to a country where real poverty is a problem and see how they do !
The St Louis thread kind of got off track, so I moved it to its own thread.
How would the US get places like Vine City in Atlanta, or South Dallas, or South Chicago, or Little Haiti/Hialeah near Miami back on track?
First I would remove all racial qualifiers and identifiers from all forms regarding employment, education, etc. I would create a national sales tax and a standard rate income tax of about 10% rather than 30%.
I would retain some social programs for those in dire need that would have a duration of about 6 months. After that, if you can't find a job or housing, you will be assigned a job and housing. People in "assistance programs" will receive support in job training and education so that they will be able to find better employment if they desire. Most jobs will be related to building low income housing and providing services to those "in need." The main goal would to make everyone self sufficient. I'd rather spend money having them build and learn than sit in jail and get three hots and a cot for nothing in return.
Things like violent crime, drug use and things of that nature will make you ineligible for assistance.
This wouldn't fix everything, people have a strong tendency towards tribalism even if they don't notice they are doing it. But it would fix a LOT. I'd scrap a lot of foreign aid where we pay countries "protection money" to not do things we don't want them to do.
I'd rather help poor people in this country than in Afghanistan. I'd also raise the standard of living for members of the US military, especially when it comes to health care.
The St Louis thread kind of got off track, so I moved it to its own thread.
How would the US get places like Vine City in Atlanta, or South Dallas, or South Chicago, or Little Haiti/Hialeah near Miami back on track?
Define poverty. Do you mean "I may die of starvation tomorrow" like Africa poverty?
Or is it the "I'm living off olive oil, tomatoes, and bread and wine in Italy" poverty, where you won't starve, but all your time is making the food you eat, and enough to sell for profit to keep the house up and keep your land?
Or is it the "I can't afford food so I'm stealing steaks, going home and grilling them while drinking a case of beer, smoking 2 packs of cigs and polishing off the night with a couple blunts... and I don't have money because my wife an I refuse to work, but I spend some of my welfare money at the local watering hole each day as well" type of poverty?
Very different situations to deal with.
I'm with you except the sports. Sports are the only shot a lot of these kids have at getting into higher ed.
I don't think the percentages support that viewpoint. We need to de-commercialize college sports in a big way.
How many college football and basketball coaches make more than the Dean of the Med School, or the Chancellor of the University? Sure most are paid the majority of their salaries by alumni associations, but put that money to work elsewhere. Several years ago, Lew Perkins, the AD of the University of Kansas, was the highest paid state employee in the state.
Doesn't make sense.
I'm with you except the sports. Sports are the only shot a lot of these kids have at getting into higher ed.
I would take university athletics and make it just another category of AA, BA, etc. Instead of making football and basketball players take up space in history and lit classes, they could take classes in business management, contracts, physical therapy and related subjects. I'd also include a basic "fallback" education in case their knees go out or they simply never get drafted.
First a complete overhaul of our public education system from the ground up. It is rediculously outdated Prussian style nonsense. We are not pumping out factory workers anymore, yet that's the system of education we cling to. We need critical thinkers.
Next is deregulating just about every industry to the point they can make money and prosper here again. I'm not talking chaos, I'm talking minimum regulatory and licensing requirements and tax incentives for start ups. We need fresh blood in every sector and we need to revitalize lost industry's.
I thought your post was well thought out, and I agree whole-heartedly with most everything you wrote, except the above.
I think we actually need to revert back to shop classes, home economics and phys ed. Why? Because we have an infrastructure that needs rebuilding, and we desperately need to return premium manufacturing jobs to our shores. America can not prosper as a service economy.
For the most part, industry didn't leave America because they weren't viable here, they left because cheaper labor markets overseas made them more money.
I agree we should incentivize manufacturing startup's, but we should de-incentivize American-based companies who are manufacturing overseas, make them bring those jobs back home.
Averageman
09-21-17, 17:33
You can have community level sports without having them "in" the school.
I agree take the sports out of the schools and let the community monitor and coach them.
Our High School has a "stadium" any college would be proud of.
No pass no play is a joke here and only teaches corruption is normal.
I don't think the percentages support that viewpoint. We need to de-commercialize college sports in a big way.
How many college football and basketball coaches make more than the Dean of the Med School, or the Chancellor of the University? Sure most are paid the majority of their salaries by alumni associations, but put that money to work elsewhere. Several years ago, Lew Perkins, the AD of the University of Kansas, was the highest paid state employee in the state.
Doesn't make sense.
Sure it makes sense. Look at the revenue that a top-tier coach brings to big time programs. It's an investment. At many of the schools, the dominant (usually football) pays for ALL of the other sports. Women's golf ain't gonna pay for itself. Yet there are Scholarships.
So, that one high paid coach, if he's doing his job, is paying the salaries for the entire athletic department and all the other scholarship sports. Everybody always jumps ugly (not saying you) at the high paid football coach, while forgetting it's usually the program that makes all the others go. It's a business decision.
As mentioned in the article below, the better the teams do, the more money they make.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/big12/2017/04/26/big-12-revenue-tax-return-sec/100929214/
I would take university athletics and make it just another category of AA, BA, etc. Instead of making football and basketball players take up space in history and lit classes, they could take classes in business management, contracts, physical therapy and related subjects. I'd also include a basic "fallback" education in case their knees go out or they simply never get drafted.
Can't argue with that, really.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
SeriousStudent
09-21-17, 18:52
I cannot speak for the other cities. But I lived in Dallas, and South Dallas for years. Yes, there are some good neighborhoods with good people south of the Trinity River.
I would start by locking up virtually every politician in Dallas county. The rampant corruption there drove me out of the city, then the county. Nothing you do has any chance of success until you have honest leadership.
End the war on drugs and put in place a system that focuses on weeding out people who deal hard drugs while getting treatment for addicts.
A complete revamp of the school systems with a focus on job skills and college prep instead of test taking. And lets not forget teaching life skills!
Adult age education and job training classes with placement assistance.
A system where those on welfare work as well. Can't find a job and need welfare? Great! Lots of public service things need done. Pick up trash for the parks department. Have kids and need to stay home? Here is a list of court recordings that need to be typed out. Background in construction? That housing unit over there needs repairs.. Things need to be done. So lets put the people to work doing it. They get money, the stuff gets done, and especially when it improves their area it gives them a sense of worth in themselves and their neighborhood.
Change in policing tactics in the areas with a focus on the officers integrating into the neighborhoods they work. The police that have to play hard should not be the ones who are there every day walking or driving around.
End the war on drugs and put in place a system that focuses on weeding out people who deal hard drugs while getting treatment for addicts.
If a person can sit in their house and do heroin or whatever without screwing with neighbors or anyone else that's fine. For people who can't do that, I'd create a supervised facility where you can check in, do whatever, but you cannot check out until you are straight and sober. For people who manage to screw even that up, deportation to the land where your drug comes from.
Can't manage your coke habit, we send you to Columbia where it is cheap and plentiful and you can be "their" problem. Heroin, free ticket to the poppy fields of Afghanistan.
I thought your post was well thought out, and I agree whole-heartedly with most everything you wrote, except the above.
I think we actually need to revert back to shop classes, home economics and phys ed. Why? Because we have an infrastructure that needs rebuilding, and we desperately need to return premium manufacturing jobs to our shores. America can not prosper as a service economy.
For the most part, industry didn't leave America because they weren't viable here, they left because cheaper labor markets overseas made them more money.
I agree we should incentivize manufacturing startup's, but we should de-incentivize American-based companies who are manufacturing overseas, make them bring those jobs back home.
Perhaps I misconveyed my point.
We have TONS of folks who are easily molded into factory workers. We need critical thinkers far more.
Shop classes, technical vocations, etc are all good things and we should absolutely have them. But the Prussian style of sit here, bell rings- go over there, bell rings- eat your lunch, bell rings- pull this lever, bell rings- go outside, bell rings- go back to sitting, bell rings...
Fit into a box, do not question authority and don't really learn anything just be complacent and learn to memorize basic shit.
It's got to stop. Children need to really have a larger degree of freedom in their educational experience. We need to allow them to want to learn, learn how to teach themselves with minimal guidance and take on challenges rather than herd them into least common denominator environments.
We need more critical thinkers, period. Public education is a nightmare, I'm ashamed and angry at the state of the educational system in our country. It's pathetic.
We need manufacturing facilities and jobs to come home, absolutely. But we need a revolution in the public education system. Developing the minds of the future generations to be free thinkers, use fact based and testable logic and utilize critical thinking skills is of the utmost importance to the future of our nation.
What we are doing now is a joke and one of the majors contributors to the decay of the very fabric of our culture and our Constitutional Republic.
The public school system gets ahold of people when they are young, maliable and turns the majority of them into mindless complacent drones that can be manipulated incredibly easily and taught just enough to function in society, but not enough to be awake or aware.
Truly, we are in need of a massive rehaul.
I'm with you except the sports. Sports are the only shot a lot of these kids have at getting into higher ed.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
Funny thing is... that's not their only chance at getting into higher education. FAR more scholarships are given for being a scholar than an athlete. Focusing on school instead of sports gets more kids into higher education. In my daughter's graduating class of 30 kids (super small school) nobody went to college for sports.. 5 got full rides because of academics.
I don't have enough knowledge of inner-cities to comment on making them better. I have a pretty in depth knowledge of rural "poor" issues, though.
There is no real way to make people more "moral", but the decay of the family unit in this country has created some huge issues that I really think are at the root of most of our problems.
I think what JC5188 was trying to say and JC5188 correct me if I'm wrong was 26 Inf mentioned that college coaches make more $$ then Deans of different departments and such. JC5188 was spot on. Big time coaches especially at the power five conferences, mostly football but even some of the top basketball coaches make schools a TON of money.
College football is the cash cow for athletic departments all over. Ticket sales, some school seat 80, 90 100K plus. Add food, beverages, shirts and all the other things that are sold the moneys huge.
Lacrosse, soccer, baseball, softball, volleyball, hockey ect. cost schools money that football pays for. And what the athletic departments doesn't use, the school gets to use. That's why it happens.
NYH1.
Funny thing is... that's not their only chance at getting into higher education. FAR more scholarships are given for being a scholar than an athlete. Focusing on school instead of sports gets more kids into higher education. In my daughter's graduating class of 30 kids (super small school) nobody went to college for sports.. 5 got full rides because of academics.
This thread started as a part of a discussion about inner cities. Those are the kids I'm talking about.
I'd be willing to bet that athletic scholarships are a double digit percentage where I live.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
Crow Hunter
09-22-17, 09:21
Perhaps I misconveyed my point.
We have TONS of folks who are easily molded into factory workers. We need critical thinkers far more.
Shop classes, technical vocations, etc are all good things and we should absolutely have them. But the Prussian style of sit here, bell rings- go over there, bell rings- eat your lunch, bell rings- pull this lever, bell rings- go outside, bell rings- go back to sitting, bell rings...
Fit into a box, do not question authority and don't really learn anything just be complacent and learn to memorize basic shit.
It's got to stop. Children need to really have a larger degree of freedom in their educational experience. We need to allow them to want to learn, learn how to teach themselves with minimal guidance and take on challenges rather than herd them into least common denominator environments.
We need more critical thinkers, period. Public education is a nightmare, I'm ashamed and angry at the state of the educational system in our country. It's pathetic.
We need manufacturing facilities and jobs to come home, absolutely. But we need a revolution in the public education system. Developing the minds of the future generations to be free thinkers, use fact based and testable logic and utilize critical thinking skills is of the utmost importance to the future of our nation.
What we are doing now is a joke and one of the majors contributors to the decay of the very fabric of our culture and our Constitutional Republic.
The public school system gets ahold of people when they are young, maliable and turns the majority of them into mindless complacent drones that can be manipulated incredibly easily and taught just enough to function in society, but not enough to be awake or aware.
Truly, we are in need of a massive rehaul.
LOVE that.
Critical thinking is so rare that it is nearly a freaking super power.
I don't get to do the things that I want to do at my job because I spend most of my day, every day, having to think for other people because they can't just stop, observe the problem, determine the variables, develop a hypothesis, test it and iterate as needed to figure out the answer to their problem. People just want an Easy Button and if it gets beyond a 1 or 2 step "If Then" statement they completely fall apart and start doing random things. No one actually THINKS about what they are doing or wants to.
Here is a hilarious 1 step example. We have a piece of hand held equipment that has a labeled "home location" for 5S reasons. It is labeled as a.... wait for it.....
Ribbet Gun.
Why is it labeled that? Because someone told them it was a rivet gun. They apparently had never heard of a rivet but they had heard that a frog goes "ribbet" so they, WITHOUT THINKING, just said it must be a "ribbet" gun and labeled it like that.
When our education puts out people who think there would be something called a "Ribbet Gun" without ever thinking or questioning WTH is a "Ribbet Gun" and are willing to use a "Ribbet Gun" to install Rivets (that have Rivet on the package by the way), we will definitely wind up with a population who worries less about fundamental freedoms and more about what the Kardashians are doing.
Crow Hunter and THCDDM4:
I'm not going to even try to argue that your ideas of an education system are off-base, because they are not incorrect, they are ideal.
But in a system whose goal is to deliver equal education to all, how much flexibility is possible?
I'd imagine you were both educated in the system you are decrying, yet you both apparently received adequate educations. Do you consider yourselves free thinkers?
For sure, Crow Hunter and I know how to spell 'rivet.' Why is that?
For me it was because in elementary school if I biffed a spelling test, or any test for that matter, I came home, did chores, ate supper, went to my room and didn't do anything for a week. (That was my dad, mom would have just beat me, dad's punishments hurt more than mom's).
Point is parental involvement to develop kids. Somehow society has developed the mindset that this is the teacher's job. It isn't, parents need to present kids ready to learn, teachers need to stoke the desire to learn and the parents need to sustain it.
Essentially, it all comes around to the changes to the family unit that have taken place since the 50's.
At my Mom's 80th birthday party I was asked, along with my siblings to say a few words in front of the roughly 100 people gathered. I talked to Mom, and thanked her for making me what I am today. I told her that my first memories are of her reading to me, and time spent together. I told her that I remembered reading to her. I told her that although she taught me right from wrong and gave me a safe and nurturing environment, her greatest gift to me was to instill a love of reading, and therefore learning.
Probably not far off from you guys' upbringing. How many kids today could say that?
Family.
Nuke the cities and then we can start over. Problem solved, problem staying solved.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Crow Hunter
09-22-17, 10:59
Crow Hunter and THCDDM4:
I'm not going to even try to argue that your ideas of an education system are off-base, because they are not incorrect, they are ideal.
But in a system whose goal is to deliver equal education to all, how much flexibility is possible?
I'd imagine you were both educated in the system you are decrying, yet you both apparently received adequate educations. Do you consider yourselves free thinkers?
For sure, Crow Hunter and I know how to spell 'rivet.' Why is that?
For me it was because in elementary school if I biffed a spelling test, or any test for that matter, I came home, did chores, ate supper, went to my room and didn't do anything for a week. (That was my dad, mom would have just beat me, dad's punishments hurt more than mom's).
Point is parental involvement to develop kids. Somehow society has developed the mindset that this is the teacher's job. It isn't, parents need to present kids ready to learn, teachers need to stoke the desire to learn and the parents need to sustain it.
Essentially, it all comes around to the changes to the family unit that have taken place since the 50's.
At my Mom's 80th birthday party I was asked, along with my siblings to say a few words in front of the roughly 100 people gathered. I talked to Mom, and thanked her for making me what I am today. I told her that my first memories are of her reading to me, and time spent together. I told her that I remembered reading to her. I told her that although she taught me right from wrong and gave me a safe and nurturing environment, her greatest gift to me was to instill a love of reading, and therefore learning.
Probably not far off from you guys' upbringing. How many kids today could say that?
Family.
Family is a HUGE component. I could read before I started Kindergarten because my Mom and Grandmother both read to me. I also did well in school because it was a requirement, not a recommendation. No doubt I would not be an engineer today if my Mom and Grandmother and Father had not pushed and expected me to do well. I am naturally lazy (which makes me a good engineer) but a poor student.
However, I didn't learn critical thinking skills in school. As a matter of fact, except a couple of teachers, it was ACTIVELY discouraged. Sit still, shut up and do your rote work were the rules. I don't know how many times I was told to stop asking annoying questions because most of the teachers could only teach from the lesson plan, questions not covered in the lesson plan weren't answerable.
Now in engineering school, problem solving was encouraged and taught so that greatly fostered my critical/logical thinking skills but there really is no reason the basic framework shouldn't be taught from Pre-school on rather than sit down, shut up and do your rote work.
My complaint about the "Ribbet gun" wasn't that it was misspelled or that a person didn't know that it was a Rivet gun (ignorance isn't a sin, willful ignorance is), it is the fact that NO ONE involved had the critical thinking skills to think what the hell is a Ribbet gun? They just accepted it and went on. It wasn't until someone from engineering went out to the line for something else and took a picture of it that anyone fixed anything. While I will admit to laughing at it, I am nearly as angry about it as amused and I brought it up in a meeting about why we had yet another test unit that failed because it wasn't assembled correctly. How can we expect an employee base who doesn't understand what a "Ribbet gun" is to understand how not assembling a critical component a certain way will affect its ultimate performance in the field?
I think it goes back to the Prussian model of teaching. Someone came out and told them it was a Rivet Gun, they hear "Ribbet Gun" and due to their Prussian conditioning, they followed suit. Rather than asking, "Ribbet Gun? WTH is a Ribbet Gun?"
However, I don't know how to do it. I SUCK at teaching anyone anything. I can lead by example but I don't teach or manage other people well.
Crow Hunter and THCDDM4:
I'm not going to even try to argue that your ideas of an education system are off-base, because they are not incorrect, they are ideal.
But in a system whose goal is to deliver equal education to all, how much flexibility is possible?
I'd imagine you were both educated in the system you are decrying, yet you both apparently received adequate educations. Do you consider yourselves free thinkers?
For sure, Crow Hunter and I know how to spell 'rivet.' Why is that?
For me it was because in elementary school if I biffed a spelling test, or any test for that matter, I came home, did chores, ate supper, went to my room and didn't do anything for a week. (That was my dad, mom would have just beat me, dad's punishments hurt more than mom's).
Point is parental involvement to develop kids. Somehow society has developed the mindset that this is the teacher's job. It isn't, parents need to present kids ready to learn, teachers need to stoke the desire to learn and the parents need to sustain it.
Essentially, it all comes around to the changes to the family unit that have taken place since the 50's.
At my Mom's 80th birthday party I was asked, along with my siblings to say a few words in front of the roughly 100 people gathered. I talked to Mom, and thanked her for making me what I am today. I told her that my first memories are of her reading to me, and time spent together. I told her that I remembered reading to her. I told her that although she taught me right from wrong and gave me a safe and nurturing environment, her greatest gift to me was to instill a love of reading, and therefore learning.
Probably not far off from you guys' upbringing. How many kids today could say that?
Family.
I absolutely agree with your post. Parents need to be involved in their children's lives, if not it's an absolute disaster.
With better education systems in place that made certain parents we're involved in the process, we would have fewer parents that could drop their kids off at schools and forget about them.
The school my son goes to has parents volunteer to teach subjects that are experts in, come in to show rock/mineral collections, come in to do woodworking projects, come do simple chemistry projects, etc. involving the parents directly in a way they can contribute to the knowledge base and learning experience is a MUST!
What we have now is not education, it is centers people drop off their kids to be managed and taught minimal memory skills and how to be complacent, PC and a puppet of the state while the parents are being good little worker bees supporting the state. It's disgusting...
The current system is broken.
Strengthening the family unit is an issue and one that needs much attention also, but one that starts again from WITHIN each community and each household.
There is no single solution to this problem, it is multi faceted. I was merely answering Euros question directly in how I would specifically affect change from a policy standpoint as head of US domestic policy. The single greatest way to do that would be to overhaul the public education system from top to bottom. In my opinion.
Crow Hunter and THCDDM4:
I'm not going to even try to argue that your ideas of an education system are off-base, because they are not incorrect, they are ideal.
But in a system whose goal is to deliver equal education to all, how much flexibility is possible?
I'd imagine you were both educated in the system you are decrying, yet you both apparently received adequate educations. Do you consider yourselves free thinkers?
For sure, Crow Hunter and I know how to spell 'rivet.' Why is that?
For me it was because in elementary school if I biffed a spelling test, or any test for that matter, I came home, did chores, ate supper, went to my room and didn't do anything for a week. (That was my dad, mom would have just beat me, dad's punishments hurt more than mom's).
Point is parental involvement to develop kids. Somehow society has developed the mindset that this is the teacher's job. It isn't, parents need to present kids ready to learn, teachers need to stoke the desire to learn and the parents need to sustain it.
Essentially, it all comes around to the changes to the family unit that have taken place since the 50's.
At my Mom's 80th birthday party I was asked, along with my siblings to say a few words in front of the roughly 100 people gathered. I talked to Mom, and thanked her for making me what I am today. I told her that my first memories are of her reading to me, and time spent together. I told her that I remembered reading to her. I told her that although she taught me right from wrong and gave me a safe and nurturing environment, her greatest gift to me was to instill a love of reading, and therefore learning.
Probably not far off from you guys' upbringing. How many kids today could say that?
Family.
Brilliant, and true.
How does 'education' occur when a classroom is overcrowded and the 10/90 rule is in effect (10% of the people require 90% of the time/resources)? The system is abysmal for so many reasons; among them is that we are asking teachers to be pseudo-parents, babysitters, social workers, and jobs skills teachers. Al of which should be a parent's responsibility.
Now, admittedly I will tread lightly discussing the state of public education since we homeschool, but as a former client of the system and one in graduate school studying education, I feel like I have some skin in the game.
I don't think the government CAN or SHOULD try to "fix" peoples lives.
EVERY "solution" posted here is for some problem the government has or is screwing up.
Family is a HUGE component. I could read before I started Kindergarten because my Mom and Grandmother both read to me. I also did well in school because it was a requirement, not a recommendation. No doubt I would not be an engineer today if my Mom and Grandmother and Father had not pushed and expected me to do well. I am naturally lazy (which makes me a good engineer) but a poor student.
However, I didn't learn critical thinking skills in school. As a matter of fact, except a couple of teachers, it was ACTIVELY discouraged. Sit still, shut up and do your rote work were the rules. I don't know how many times I was told to stop asking annoying questions because most of the teachers could only teach from the lesson plan, questions not covered in the lesson plan weren't answerable.
Now in engineering school, problem solving was encouraged and taught so that greatly fostered my critical/logical thinking skills but there really is no reason the basic framework shouldn't be taught from Pre-school on rather than sit down, shut up and do your rote work.
My complaint about the "Ribbet gun" wasn't that it was misspelled or that a person didn't know that it was a Rivet gun (ignorance isn't a sin, willful ignorance is), it is the fact that NO ONE involved had the critical thinking skills to think what the hell is a Ribbet gun? They just accepted it and went on. It wasn't until someone from engineering went out to the line for something else and took a picture of it that anyone fixed anything. While I will admit to laughing at it, I am nearly as angry about it as amused and I brought it up in a meeting about why we had yet another test unit that failed because it wasn't assembled correctly. How can we expect an employee base who doesn't understand what a "Ribbet gun" is to understand how not assembling a critical component a certain way will affect its ultimate performance in the field?
I think it goes back to the Prussian model of teaching. Someone came out and told them it was a Rivet Gun, they hear "Ribbet Gun" and due to their Prussian conditioning, they followed suit. Rather than asking, "Ribbet Gun? WTH is a Ribbet Gun?"
However, I don't know how to do it. I SUCK at teaching anyone anything. I can lead by example but I don't teach or manage other people well.
Could have been someone being ignorant, funny, lazy...all possibilities.
But we can all tell stories. I'm a manufacturing Manager (Welder by trade...the natural enemy of the engineer and vice-versa, lol). I once had to WALK an engineer out to the shop to PROVE that when you "rake" a steel fence panel, the pickets get closer to each other if the holes in the rail were pre-punched.
He had a Masters, btw, lol.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
This thread started as a part of a discussion about inner cities. Those are the kids I'm talking about.
I'd be willing to bet that athletic scholarships are a double digit percentage where I live.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
But it doesn't have to be that way. Regardless if a kid grows up rural or urban, they are applying to the same colleges. As a parent of three graduates in the last five years, we have worked tirelessly to help our kids seek out and apply for dozens of scholarships. There are PILES of opportunities for scholarships and free rides offered to kids regardless of where they are from, especially those that are economically disadvantaged and are minorities, that my kids don't qualify for.
If we want to fix the a bunch of woes in this country, I agree with many posters that we need to start with the education system.
I lived on Page Blvd and Cote Brilliante in the City of St. Louis when I was growing up. Eventually, the family secured a 50 year loan to buy a $28,000 home on the East side of the Mississippi River, so we would not have to listen to gunfire several times a day. We kept in close touch with family and friends over the years and the city became progressively more violent.
Three things I observed first hand were:
1) The government and people associated with social services have conditioned people of color to believe the government is required to provide housing, medical care and money for food based on their heritage. This has happened over a 50 year period. This has enslaved the black people of St. Louis.
2) The traditional family unit no longer exists in most of the households in the lower income neighborhoods in the Greater St. Louis area. In most instances children grow up in single parent homes without the benefit of guidance from two parents. The grandparents filled those roles for years, but they died off and many children are without any guidance at all.
3) People in the lower income neighborhoods feel the government should not address issues of violence through policing and prosecution. Peace can be achieved through pouring more money into those neighborhoods, which of course is not true. If people are arrested and prosecuted, protest and riot. If people want more in the form of public aid, protest and riot. Politicians are guilty of facilitating this mindset by coddling to their voting blocs.
There are a lot of white people who are milking the system, but they don't get the media coverage other races do. We as a society need to reset. Everyone should be treated equally, in the welfare office, on the street and in the courtroom. I had limited opportunities, and instead of winding up in prison or dead, chose to enlist in the military in the 1970's to earn a good living and learn a trade. A few black men from the old neighborhood worked their tails off and became successful doctors, lawyers and business professionals.
Equal opportunity means the opportunity to succeed and the opportunity to fail. No one should be given preference for housing, funding, educational grants, jobs, etc., based on race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. Hard work should be rewarded with assistance to anyone who is willing to put forth the effort. Laziness should not be rewarded regardless of heritage.
It took over 50 years to create this mess, so it will take years to undo. The process will be painful and you should expect to see more civil unrest during the transition. I have a few ideas, but would first like to hear what others have to say about what specifically should be done to reform the public aid and educational systems and government offices involved in the process. Please be specific and don't be thin skinned if you don't like what others have to say.
T2C,
We need another Space Race.
Sounds naive, but we do. The Space Race kids WANTED to learn high concept math. People wanted to be astronauts.
Now they want to be Floyd Maywether or Kanye.
I always figured if we had another real Space Race that people might get off their butts.
Otherwise I outlined my main talking points. We need to de-snowflake "the struggle". I can and do respect the past, but what have people done today?
JMO
It took over 50 years to create this mess, so it will take years to undo. The process will be painful and you should expect to see more civil unrest during the transition. I have a few ideas, but would first like to hear what others have to say about what specifically should be done to reform the public aid and educational systems and government offices involved in the process. Please be specific and don't be thin skinned if you don't like what others have to say.
One of the first overhauls I'd do to the school system is change hours. Run School from 9:00 to 5:00. Have a study hall available for all students from 8:00 to 9:00 and from 5:00 to 6:00. This would largely take care of the parents hassle of getting the kids to school dependent on their work schedule, it is the only concession I'd make to continue the school as a babysitter tradition.
I'd also get of the old agrarian school year, kids aren't required to help families harvest anymore. Summer vacation would be four weeks. There would be another four week vacation between semesters.
All day kindergarten.
Schools receiving ANY federal funding would be required to have students wear a simple, inexpensive, unisex, uniform. This would address some the of the problems associated with gangs and disparate incomes.
School districts would be encouraged to have grade centers in the seventh, eighth and ninth grades. Elementary schools should be divided K through 3, 4-6.
Semesters in the middle and upper grades would be focused on specific topics, e.g. first semester the focus would be on math and social studies; second semester the focus would be on science and fine arts. Schools in a system would offset the subjects with each other each semester, teachers would transfer schools. There would still be electives each semester such as home ec, shop, band, orchestra, choir. Some form of physical education would be mandated through high school.
I like year round school and uniforms
SOOOOOOOO much drama/BS in school occurs over clothes
ETA they should do, like, a regular job where you get so much holiday time to accrue and a kid could take time off with his folks for travel/personal stuff/holidays.
It would teach responsibility instead of lazy assing at home while everyone else works.
polos, slacks, and optional skirt and done. Shoes must be conservative.
But it doesn't have to be that way. Regardless if a kid grows up rural or urban, they are applying to the same colleges. As a parent of three graduates in the last five years, we have worked tirelessly to help our kids seek out and apply for dozens of scholarships. There are PILES of opportunities for scholarships and free rides offered to kids regardless of where they are from, especially those that are economically disadvantaged and are minorities, that my kids don't qualify for.
If we want to fix the a bunch of woes in this country, I agree with many posters that we need to start with the education system.
I don't disagree with that, but we are getting black out of that situation and into one with (usually) strict discipline. And into a full ride. Most of those kids aren't going to compete for class slots in a/p classes if you know what I mean. Get them out, maybe a degree...then they can take what they earn back to the hood like lebron james. Or tutor a younger kid. ANYTHING besides cliqued up.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
One of the first overhauls I'd do to the school system is change hours. Run School from 9:00 to 5:00. Have a study hall available for all students from 8:00 to 9:00 and from 5:00 to 6:00. This would largely take care of the parents hassle of getting the kids to school dependent on their work schedule, it is the only concession I'd make to continue the school as a babysitter tradition.
I'd also get of the old agrarian school year, kids aren't required to help families harvest anymore. Summer vacation would be four weeks. There would be another four week vacation between semesters.
All day kindergarten.
Schools receiving ANY federal funding would be required to have students wear a simple, inexpensive, unisex, uniform. This would address some the of the problems associated with gangs and disparate incomes.
School districts would be encouraged to have grade centers in the seventh, eighth and ninth grades. Elementary schools should be divided K through 3, 4-6.
Semesters in the middle and upper grades would be focused on specific topics, e.g. first semester the focus would be on math and social studies; second semester the focus would be on science and fine arts. Schools in a system would offset the subjects with each other each semester, teachers would transfer schools. There would still be electives each semester such as home ec, shop, band, orchestra, choir. Some form of physical education would be mandated through high school.
I could be down with this. One of my biggest expenses re: employees is time missed due to "daycare and baby mama" issues.
I mentor where I can but it's tuff
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
Many countries in Europe and some in Asia have year round or almost year round school. Agreed on summer vacation, it should be minimal. Give kids more time with less guidance and you know what happens. How about a half day of school on Saturday? It might be a start.
On public education. I graduated, a decade ago. I also spent my formative years in private schools. Once year in private high school I had half, count them, half my high school courses needed to graduate. I then spent three years in public high school. My claim to fame? I averaged 6 books a week in the back of the classroom and still aced everything while often knowing more than the ****ing teachers did about the subjects especially history. The summer break isn't the issue, it is the dumb down of the populace. **** public education. Do away with the indoctrinational bullshit, and let the private sector and home school pick up the slack. You will likely in the long run end up with a better educated populace, or if not that, thin the herd dramatically in a few generations. Either way, I don't care what the public sector does, my children will never spend their formative years in the public system. And if they do, I fully expect to give a few principles strokes.
The simplicity pf fixing the problem in mind numbing. Start with education. I love the idea that the children would wear uniforms, I say even issue them. Then there would be no excuses. Footwear would be included in that rule. People would have to graduate. Truancy would result in a work camp where they would learn and study. Welfare would be simple. You must graduate from High school to be eligible. Only allowed 12 months on at one time and only 2 times in an 8-year period. This includes housing. Here is the kicker that would really get people. There is no EFT for welfare. You must come in person to get the check. There will be a drug test on site every time. Checks will be paid bi-weekly. And the even bigger rub…… all adults on welfare will be on birth control that is administered when you get your check no matter what your religion or your stupid brain thinks about it. You want our money and we do not want your kids. Child care is a PITA and cost a great deal….. I know. With all the money that the government is saving with my program they can set up a low-income daycare to assist people that qualify with day care if they need it. But they would have to be employed. It is better to have people working than sitting around.
The_War_Wagon
09-24-17, 22:08
TRILLIONS in wealth transferred in the 50+ year long "War on Poverty," & we have MORE poor people than ever.
Would it be considered "impolite," to ask what our, "exit strategy," on this war might be? :eek:
And the even bigger rub…… all adults on welfare will be on birth control that is administered when you get your check no matter what your religion or your stupid brain thinks about it. You want our money and we do not want your kids.
I'm down with this as well, but know from mentioning it in mixed company - male/female, conservative/liberal - you get blow back from all over, including folks you'd think would be okay with it.
As far as I'm concerned, if you have a baby on medicaid we either pay for an IUD to get placed, an implant, or a reversible - at your expense - tubal litigation. No oral contraceptives, too easy to say oops!
One of the answer to the childcare dilemma is to have a different level for means tested benefit for parents with children. Especially with single moms, about the time they start to get on their feet and make enough money to get by, they reach the threshold for income and bang! benefits go away, can't afford to pay the child care. Better to pay them a little longer until they are firmly on their feet IMHO.
I'm down with this as well, but know from mentioning it in mixed company - male/female, conservative/liberal - you get blow back from all over, including folks you'd think would be okay with it.
That is why I put the part about not caring what what your religion says..... GOD says get off welfare and get a FU#$ing job! ;)
TRILLIONS in wealth transferred in the 50+ year long "War on Poverty," & we have MORE poor people than ever.
Would it be considered "impolite," to ask what our, "exit strategy," on this war might be? :eek:
There basic problem is there is no way to punish the offender without punishing the innocent.
Asshole shitbags keep having more and more children because each one is an additional "benefit." If you scale back anything, the "benefits" will be the only ones who suffer because asshole shitbags don't care about their kids and will always cover their own ass first.
The problem is once you start to pay people to have more children than they can provide for, you can't really get off that road without a hell of a lot of collateral damage. As a tax payer I honestly don't want to pay a nickel of that shit, but as a human being I'd hate to make the lives of those kids even more horrible, their lives are pretty much a disaster from day one.
There is this idea that if we just make people self reliant, problem is I know lots of those self reliant people who qualify for all kinds of assistance and don't take any of it. They are poor as shit and struggle from month to month and work their ass off to pay rent and feed themselves.
Then there are the rest, those who are looking for a system to provide for them. And no matter what, those people won't do shit to take care of anyone other than themselves. Give them a job, they won't go or if they show up they won't do much of any benefit. Give them a house and they will shit it up. They will never be self reliant even if you showed them how to do so and gave them everything they need to be self reliant.
Unfortunately, as a society, we will always suffer the lowest common denominator no matter what we do. There are actually people who blame society for their situation and seek to punish everyone else in a race to the bottom of the crab bucket.
Moose-Knuckle
09-25-17, 05:13
I'm down with this as well, but know from mentioning it in mixed company - male/female, conservative/liberal - you get blow back from all over, including folks you'd think would be okay with it.
Our good friends on the left would decry "evil Nazi eugenics!" even though they not only embrace but publicly praise in the year 2017 Margaret Sanger. The very person the Nazi's got their eugenics program from.
As far as I'm concerned, if you have a baby on medicaid we either pay for an IUD to get placed, an implant, or a reversible - at your expense - tubal litigation. No oral contraceptives, too easy to say oops!
One of the answer to the childcare dilemma is to have a different level for means tested benefit for parents with children. Especially with single moms, about the time they start to get on their feet and make enough money to get by, they reach the threshold for income and bang! benefits go away, can't afford to pay the child care. Better to pay them a little longer until they are firmly on their feet IMHO.
"On average, U.S. hospital deliveries cost $3,500 per stay, according to the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Healthcare Cost and Utilization Project. Add in prenatal, delivery-related and post-partum healthcare, and you're looking at an $8,802 tab, according to a Thomson Healthcare study for March of Dimes."
I would say the above figures published by parenting.com sound about right. Even with insurance we paid a big chunk of a three day stay after delivery (we left the morning of the third day but they don't pro-rate :cool: ).
Of course the above figure does not account for the cost of a child until they are 18 and "responsible for themselves"; education, housing, food, medical care, clothing, et al.
Not directed at 26 Inf, but I saw a lot of posts mentioning education. No amount of education reform will ever fix this . . .
(@ 02:17)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavou_SEj1E
Who has 15 kids, that's a legit basketball team....who does that? We had 3 kids and I thought that was crazy.
NYH1.
Who has 15 kids, that's a legit basketball team....who does that? We had 3 kids and I thought that was crazy.
NYH1.
The answer is "people who assume no responsibility for their spawn". :(
Who has 15 kids, that's a legit basketball team....who does that? We had 3 kids and I thought that was crazy.
NYH1.
No. We have 6. THAT'S a basketball team with one coming off the bench. That she has is a starting football offense plus three in reserve.
Most folks will have fewer than 15 grandchildren and the way things are going possibly not that many great grandchildren!
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Averageman
09-26-17, 10:18
You can't "fix" people who are determined to remain impoverished and ignorant.
We've tried that.
Cradle to grave safety nets encourage less personal responsibility and more programs with more safety nets.
So much so that now we provide such attractive programs and safety nets that people come here illegally from foreign countries to receive them .
RetroRevolver77
09-26-17, 10:26
This is by design and the bigger picture is what we are seeing happening now to all Western Civilization and European centrist nations. The design is to erase the more independent and conservative voting class in order to replace it with one that is government dependent- all by careful use of taxation aimed at destroying the middle class.
This is by design and the bigger picture is what we are seeing happening now to all Western Civilization and European centrist nations. The design is to erase the more independent and conservative voting class in order to replace it with one that is government dependent- all by careful use of taxation aimed at destroying the middle class.
So you think she signed on to have 15 kids to erase the more independent and conservative voting class in order to replace it with one that is government dependent.
Interesting. I think you are giving her more credit than she is due.
Agreed. Sometimes a THOT is just a THOT.
De-incentivize it and let people starve like in the depression and/or resort to cannibalism. It puts that sex drive into a nosedive
#NoMoreMoneyForTHOTs
#IDontPayForStrange
Averageman
09-26-17, 12:42
Or you could make it really inconvenient and difficult to qualify for and receive "free stuff" other people pay for.
You could even issue food staples rather than ever cards every month to eliminate some fraud and waste.
Since my community is passing out at least two free meals a day at school, no one will starve or have to go all Donner dinner party.
RetroRevolver77
09-26-17, 12:43
So you think she signed on to have 15 kids to erase the more independent and conservative voting class in order to replace it with one that is government dependent.
Interesting. I think you are giving her more credit than she is due.
She is merely a means to an end. The government forces the taxpayer to support her. In turn the people that are forced to support people like her can no longer support large families for themselves. The government in turn gladly hands tax payer money to those that are dependent classes in exchange for votes from the dependent class that are demanding more government control. Over time as dependent classes vote for more tax increases, the more people will fall into the dependent class- creating more need for government and the vicious cycle continues until eventual collapse. Once Democracy collapses, so does all means for retaining individual rights and the whole system re-boots to full blown Socialism. It's the reason why Marxists support open borders, unending social benefits, unchecked migration and unaccountable bureaucracy. The last thing Marxism wants is some independently minded fiscal conservative groups of actual taxpayer classes of people taking over and cutting the tumor of socialism off it's own throat to save itself.
7n6
You know what you should do, 7n6?
Go out and find a bunch of girls between 18-25 and just start pumping em out wholesale. Get em on fertility drugs amd go to town.
Don't let them replace you!
RetroRevolver77
09-26-17, 13:04
Here is an article dated in 2016 with numbers of Welfare recipients.
http://thewestsidegazette.com/finally-the-truth-about-welfare-how-many-blacks-vs-how-many-whites/
Here is the breakdown of demographics in the US also dated from 2016.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States
This is an absolutely staggering problem and is unsustainable.
7n6
Burn down Hollywood !
Enact strict term limits in Modor on the Potomac !
End Govt. interference at state level !
No. We have 6. THAT'S a basketball team with one coming off the bench. That she has is a starting football offense plus three in reserve.
That's in gym class. NBA teams play with 15 players during the season. NFL teams play with 48 on the team and 5 on the practice squad.
NCAA has different rules. Div. I basketball teams are limited to 13 scholarship player and most have walk-ons. Div. I football teams are limited to 85 scholarship players and most have walk-ons.
So yeah....she has a basketball team! ;)
NYH1.
Averageman
09-26-17, 14:54
I hope she has to tape her uterus to a skateboard so it doesn't drag behind her as she waddles through WalMart.
Moose-Knuckle
09-26-17, 15:04
She is merely a means to an end. The government forces the taxpayer to support her. In turn the people that are forced to support people like her can no longer support large families for themselves. The government in turn gladly hands tax payer money to those that are dependent classes in exchange for votes from the dependent class that are demanding more government control. Over time as dependent classes vote for more tax increases, the more people will fall into the dependent class- creating more need for government and the vicious cycle continues until eventual collapse. Once Democracy collapses, so does all means for retaining individual rights and the whole system re-boots to full blown Socialism. It's the reason why Marxists support open borders, unending social benefits, unchecked migration and unaccountable bureaucracy. The last thing Marxism wants is some independently minded fiscal conservative groups of actual taxpayer classes of people taking over and cutting the tumor of socialism off it's own throat to save itself.
Long before Cultural Marxism there was the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan.
Here is an article dated in 2016 with numbers of Welfare recipients.
http://thewestsidegazette.com/finally-the-truth-about-welfare-how-many-blacks-vs-how-many-whites/
Here is the breakdown of demographics in the US also dated from 2016.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States
This is an absolutely staggering problem and is unsustainable.
Unsustainable by design, the Cloward-Piven Strategy in the flesh.
You know what you should do, 7n6?
Go out and find a bunch of girls between 18-25 and just start pumping em out wholesale. Get em on fertility drugs amd go to town.
Don't let them replace you!
How about just implementing a policy where receiving "benefits" = receiving mandatory birth control? I have no say in who gets my money. Recipients should have no more kids.
How about just implementing a policy where receiving "benefits" = receiving mandatory birth control? I have no say in who gets my money. Recipients should have no more kids.
There's no legal way to do that.
If you've ever dated/been married to a woman on the pill then you see a lot of BC has side effects. That incurs liability.
Plus they will still game the system
I'd just sooner cut off all money and let them starve. Dead serious.
Stupidity and worthlessness should hurt and/or be fatal.
Nobody lies awake at night going "Gee, I hope Firefly is doing okay...."
F' em. If you really want to improve your life, cool. If you're a leech, drop over.
I'd just sooner cut off all money and let them starve. Dead serious.
Stupidity and worthlessness should hurt and/or be fatal.
Nobody lies awake at night going "Gee, I hope Firefly is doing okay...."
F' em. If you really want to improve your life, cool. If you're a leech, drop over.
Common ground.
My previous post was made knowing the system will never go away.
Common ground.
My previous post was made knowing the system will never go away.
It might. Eventually we will all run out of money.
She is merely a means to an end. The government forces the taxpayer to support her. In turn the people that are forced to support people like her can no longer support large families for themselves. The government in turn gladly hands tax payer money to those that are dependent classes in exchange for votes from the dependent class that are demanding more government control. Over time as dependent classes vote for more tax increases, the more people will fall into the dependent class- creating more need for government and the vicious cycle continues until eventual collapse. Once Democracy collapses, so does all means for retaining individual rights and the whole system re-boots to full blown Socialism. It's the reason why Marxists support open borders, unending social benefits, unchecked migration and unaccountable bureaucracy. The last thing Marxism wants is some independently minded fiscal conservative groups of actual taxpayer classes of people taking over and cutting the tumor of socialism off it's own throat to save itself.
7n6
So, that hangs together better than I thought. Want to apply those same metrics to the un/underregulated free market?
There's no legal way to do that.
If you've ever dated/been married to a woman on the pill then you see a lot of BC has side effects. That incurs liability.
Plus they will still game the system
I'd just sooner cut off all money and let them starve. Dead serious.
Stupidity and worthlessness should hurt and/or be fatal.
Nobody lies awake at night going "Gee, I hope Firefly is doing okay...."
F' em. If you really want to improve your life, cool. If you're a leech, drop over.
Agreed.
Over the years I have observed that people can be threatened with physical force, imprisonment, etc., and they do not respond. Something that people have always responded to was the threat of cutting off their money, that always got their attention.
If you accept public money for your livelihood, there should be some form of accountability or the funds get cut off. The difficult task is establishing criteria for accountability and how to take care of the children when funds are cut off from irresponsible adults.
RetroRevolver77
09-27-17, 02:41
Nevermind. If you want to end urban poverty, just cut all social programs entirely.
7n6
CleverNickname
09-29-17, 21:58
Who has 15 kids, that's a legit basketball team....who does that? We had 3 kids and I thought that was crazy.
NYH1.
I have an uncle and aunt with 15 kids, all their biological children, no multiples, ranging in age from 5 to 26 years old (plus 6 grandkids now too). Uncle's a mechanical engineer, aunt homeschooled them all.
I have an uncle and aunt with 15 kids, all their biological children, no multiples, ranging in age from 5 to 26 years old (plus 6 grandkids now too). Uncle's a mechanical engineer, aunt homeschooled them all.
Is there a reason for such a large family? Family tradition, religious, or other factors?
I'm telling you, I'm 63 with daughters 17 and 18, almost 18 and 19. Oldest son is 41. Going to be 69 years old when the last one is out of college. That kind of bothers me a little, not that I'd do anything different.
omg you are old enough to be my dad.
I sorta planned on croaking at 60. Man...that makes me question things a bit.
omg you are old enough to be my dad.
I sorta planned on croaking at 60. Man...that makes me question things a bit.
I will be 49 on my next birthday.. 60 is just on the horizon. I am already making "Grumpy Old Men" kind of plans with my buddies. I hunt and ride snowmobiles in the back country with several dudes in their early 70's. Hell, my dad is 73 and has no problems keeping up with me.
I will be 49 on my next birthday.. 60 is just on the horizon. I am already making "Grumpy Old Men" kind of plans with my buddies. I hunt and ride snowmobiles in the back country with several dudes in their early 70's. Hell, my dad is 73 and has no problems keeping up with me.
If I make it to 61, I am buying a white Ford pick em up and OCing a 1911. I doubt I'll get into Garands but will use my HK91 as my lawn gun.
I think what JC5188 was trying to say and JC5188 correct me if I'm wrong was 26 Inf mentioned that college coaches make more $$ then Deans of different departments and such. JC5188 was spot on. Big time coaches especially at the power five conferences, mostly football but even some of the top basketball coaches make schools a TON of money.
College football is the cash cow for athletic departments all over. Ticket sales, some school seat 80, 90 100K plus. Add food, beverages, shirts and all the other things that are sold the moneys huge.
Lacrosse, soccer, baseball, softball, volleyball, hockey ect. cost schools money that football pays for. And what the athletic departments doesn't use, the school gets to use. That's why it happens.
NYH1.
Just saw this and that you mentioned me, lol.
Yes, spot on with what I meant. For my state school, the athletics program is valued at (cue Dr Evil), one BILLION dollars.
As we are seeing currently with NCAABB, it takes a skilled person of integrity to handle that in a proper way. That's a helluva asset to gamble, just because teachers are underpaid. And most of them are.
"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."
---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch
If I make it to 61, I am buying a white Ford pick em up and OCing a 1911. I doubt I'll get into Garands but will use my HK91 as my lawn gun.
Hey, I'm ahead of schedule!
Ok, its a Cummins Ram 4x4 instead of a 2wd F-150 with a cane in the gunrack.
Remember, 60 is the new 40!
Sure, the joints ache a bit and pop,but I'm more active and doing more fun stuff than in my early 50s.
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