View Full Version : Pistol - Minimum Defensive Accuracy Standards
Cincinnatus15
10-03-17, 06:03
I know it's largely subjective but I'm interested in what you consider to be the minimum defensive accuracy standards you hold yourselves, students, and/or officers to. I'm more focused on concealed carry but am interested in pistol shooting standards in general. For me, working towards headshots at 25 yards has been my goal and I've just recently been able to achieve this. My pistol is an "old" Gen 3 Glock 19 with Ameriglo Hackathorn sights. I'm always trying to improve my shooting ability and diversify my training so that I can be better prepared to defend myself and my loved ones. Please let me know what you consider your minimum accuracy standards. Thanks.
It depends on the class and who is attending. The stop box on the head of most of the training targets we use is 4-1/2" in diameter.
For a group of experienced shooters training with OEM pistols and ammunition, I would expect sub 5" unsupported position groups at 25 yards with sub 4" groups being the norm. We mix in a little bullseye shooting to break things up and hone precision skills during a course. A minimum score of 90/100 on a NRA B-6 target is expected from an experienced shooter.
Cincinnatus15
10-03-17, 08:14
It depends on the class and who is attending. The stop box on the head of most of the training targets we use is 4-1/2" in diameter.
For a group of experienced shooters training with OEM pistols and ammunition, I would expect sub 5" unsupported position groups at 25 yards with sub 4" groups being the norm. We mix in a little bullseye shooting to break things up and hone precision skills during a course. A minimum score of 90/100 on a NRA B-6 target is expected from an experienced shooter.
Is the 90/100 at 25 yards or 50? So all have to be within the 9 ring? Thanks.
Our dept requirement is %75 percent on a B27 Target. I train our officers on TQ-19 and we work for a %85 percent. My instructors are required to score a %90 on a TQ-19. All of our qualifications go out to 25 yards. Regular officers are only required to shoot 6 at 25. Instructors are required to shoot 16.
Typical qual target B-27
https://i.imgur.com/JKdi90l.jpg
Expected accuracy out of my instructors, and most of our officer can run at this level
https://i.imgur.com/7TD5QGB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EAtIFEC.jpg
TXPO
Knowing capability is more important than having good skill for CCW.
My personal minimum goal is headshots at 25yds, I'm working on 50yds right now.
Cincinnatus15
10-03-17, 14:15
Knowing capability is more important than having good skill for CCW.
My personal minimum goal is headshots at 25yds, I'm working on 50yds right now.
Both of those targets are at 25? Thanks for the information.
Cincinnatus15
10-03-17, 14:15
Knowing capability is more important than having good skill for CCW.
My personal minimum goal is headshots at 25yds, I'm working on 50yds right now.
Knowing personal capability as in willingness to shoot and mindset? Thanks.
Most important is to decide when it's safe to shoot. I like being able to keep it in 3-4" out to 15 yards, and 6-8" out to 25/50 yards.
I also don't ignore my non-dominant hand.
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Just came in from practice and saw this thread. Seems to me if you can shoot the Action Pistol Practical Event around a 384/80% you probably have a good leg up. If you can't do 50 yards on your range and only go to 25 yards then 80% would be 288.
If you use an IPSC/IDPA target: A = 10, C = 8, D = 5. Count the head A and B zones as 5 points since this is a center mass drill. If you use the NRA AP-1 or GSSF targets score them as usual.
Rules for Conduct of the Practical Event-
Rounds: 48
Targets: NRA AP-1 targets.
Range: 10, 15, 25 and 50 Yards.
Procedure:
Competitor stands facing 2 targets downrange. Tops of targets will be approximately 6 feet above ground level and 3 feet apart, edge-to-edge.
The starting position will be with the handgun holstered and both hands held shoulder high. (for this drill you may want to start with the hands chest high)
The starting signal will be an audible type (whistle, horn, etc.) or turning targets may be used, preceded by the verbal commands “READY” and “STANDBY.” (by yourself use a shot timer set to random)
10 Yard Stage:
At the signal to commence fire, competitor fires one round at each target within 3 seconds.
At the second signal to commence fire, competitor fires 2 rounds at each target within 4 seconds.
At the third signal to commence fire, competitor fires 3 rounds at each target with weak hand only within 8 seconds; competitor may use the strong hand to produce and exchange the handgun for this third segment, but all 6 rounds must be fi red with the weak hand without support for the hand or arm of any kind.
15 Yard Stage:
At the signal to commence fire, competitor fires one round at each target within 4 seconds.
At the second signal to commence fire, competitor fires 2 rounds at each target within 5 seconds.
At the third signal to commence fire, competitor fires 3 rounds at each target within 6 seconds.
25 Yard Stage:
At the signal to commence fire, competitor fires one round at each target within 5 seconds.
At the second signal to commence fire, competitor fires 2 rounds at each target within 6 seconds.
At the third signal to commence fire, competitor fires 3 rounds at each target within 7 seconds.
50 Yard Stage:
At the signal to commence fire, competitor fires one round at each target within 7 seconds.
At the second signal to commence fire, competitor fires 2 rounds at each target within 10 seconds.
At the third signal to commence fire, competitor fires 3 rounds at each target within 15 seconds.
Penalties:
A penalty of 10 points will be charged for a premature start, for each procedural error, for each round fired over the designated number, for each round fired overtime, and for each round fired while supporting the weak hand or arm during the third segment at the 10-yard stage.
The reason I suggest this is that it balances speed and precision. If you are shooting 80% on this, you can really air it out and get some fast times shooting 2/3 IPSC plates. This is not a tactical drill at all, it is a skills analysis drill. Additionally it has no reloads.
Is the 90/100 at 25 yards or 50? So all have to be within the 9 ring? Thanks.
It's performed at the 25 yard line. You can have one or two hits in the 8 ring and still make 90 points if you get your share of 10's and X's. I've seen people shoot 100/100 with a Glock 17 or a well worn 1911.
For me, body shots at 50 yds.
If I am going for a cranial vault at 25, I am proning out, preferably behind cover. I maybe could pull a quick draw at 25 but meh....
Realistically, it will be 7 yds and in should the unfortunate occur.
The Bill Rogers Course is humbling and will get you good at such ranges.
But I like to know I can do a body shot at 50. There are a lot of organs and arteries in the chest area. Plus it evens the odds a bit. I can practice, most likely they have not.
ETA They make sights out there that make life easier but I practice with stock sights.
I loved and miss the old adj combat sights the S&W gen 3s used to have. A good 5906 with adj sights and good ammo could really, really get some results.
Although I'm up to A/C zone hits at 50 yds freestyle, I'm with you on prone.
It may take a few seconds to get down and begin shooting, but my rate of fire and hits WAY offsets the trade off.
It's performed at the 25 yard line. You can have one or two hits in the 8 ring and still make 90 points if you get your share of 10's and X's. I've seen people shoot 100/100 with a Glock 17 or a well worn 1911.
My goal is to shoot one 100 by the end of the year.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gb0oz57ocn8z726/Photo%20Sep%2009%2C%203%2044%2025%20PM.jpg?raw=1
Obligatory "don't worry about that little guy."
This can be very gun & ammo dependent imo. I have guns that will shoot one ragged hole @ 15 yards but try a different load in the same gun and they group 3"+. A couple other pistols are ~2" @ 15 yds no matter what you feed them.
I don't shoot pistol much @ 25 yards but it sounds like you guys are much better than I.
If it makes anyone here feel better I teach beginning pistol and have n00bs start the class not able to hit an 8.5" x 11" piece of paper with 13 shots @ 7 yards! We have 4 small circles on that piece of paper and by the end of the day most of our beginning students can score 70% hit rate on those circles.
If you have a total beginner send them our way. https://www.reveresriders.org/
8" circle out to 25 yards... as fast as I can without missing. Because most of my training has been done with Jason Falla, I tend to use his piston standards as my baseline. http://redbackone.com/content.cfm?cmd=68
A drill I favor; load 6, 8 rd mags (.45/1911).
At 25 yds. keep all rds in "A" zone of USPSA target at speed.
If I pull a "C", start the drill over.
Any lapse of focus and form is immediately apparent.
The Bill Rogers Course is humbling and will get you good at such ranges.
We need to head down there next year. Neither Rogers or Ronnie Dodd have their 2018 schedules out yet.
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