View Full Version : Death of the American Empire?
Doc Safari
10-04-17, 11:10
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/chris-hedges-end-empire-death-spiral-appears-unstoppable
The American empire is coming to an end. The U.S. economy is being drained by wars in the Middle East and vast military expansion around the globe. It is burdened by growing deficits, along with the devastating effects of deindustrialization and global trade agreements. Our democracy has been captured and destroyed by corporations that steadily demand more tax cuts, more deregulation and impunity from prosecution for massive acts of financial fraud, all the while looting trillions from the U.S. treasury in the form of bailouts. The nation has lost the power and respect needed to induce allies in Europe, Latin America, Asia and Africa to do its bidding. Add to this the mounting destruction caused by climate change and you have a recipe for an emerging dystopia. Overseeing this descent at the highest levels of the federal and state governments is a motley collection of imbeciles, con artists, thieves, opportunists and warmongering generals. And to be clear, I am speaking about Democrats, too.
The empire will limp along, steadily losing influence until the dollar is dropped as the world’s reserve currency, plunging the United States into a crippling depression and instantly forcing a massive contraction of its military machine.
Short of a sudden and widespread popular revolt, which does not seem likely, the death spiral appears unstoppable, meaning the United States as we know it will no longer exist within a decade or, at most, two.
Under every measurement, from financial growth and infrastructure investment to advanced technology, including supercomputers, space weaponry and cyberwarfare, we are being rapidly overtaken by the Chinese.
Many of the estimated 69 empires that have existed throughout history lacked competent leadership in their decline, having ceded power to monstrosities such as the Roman emperors Caligula and Nero. In the United States, the reins of authority may be in the grasp of the first in a line of depraved demagogues.
“For the majority of Americans, the 2020s will likely be remembered as a demoralizing decade of rising prices, stagnant wages, and fading international competitiveness,” McCoy writes. The loss of the dollar as the global reserve currency will see the U.S. unable to pay for its huge deficits by selling Treasury bonds, which will be drastically devalued at that point. There will be a massive rise in the cost of imports. Unemployment will explode. Domestic clashes over what McCoy calls “insubstantial issues” will fuel a dangerous hypernationalism that could morph into an American fascism.
A discredited elite, suspicious and even paranoid in an age of decline, will see enemies everywhere. The array of instruments created for global dominance—wholesale surveillance, the evisceration of civil liberties, sophisticated torture techniques, militarized police, the massive prison system, the thousands of militarized drones and satellites—will be employed in the homeland. The empire will collapse and the nation will consume itself within our lifetimes if we do not wrest power from those who rule the corporate state.
My take: I have no doubt America is coming apart at the seams, but my take is that it's due to the lack of any sort of moral compass present in the country anymore, i.e., "everyone does what is right in his own eyes."
20T in debt cannot/will not be paid off. The unfunded liabilities are absolutely breathtaking, and are untenable. These numbers are so huge that they become almost abstract.
skywalkrNCSU
10-04-17, 11:30
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/chris-hedges-end-empire-death-spiral-appears-unstoppable
My take: I have no doubt America is coming apart at the seams, but my take is that it's due to the lack of any sort of moral compass present in the country anymore, i.e., "everyone does what is right in his own eyes."
I think it probably has more to do with a government that can’t balance a budget, has incredible waste, is overextended in countries we have no business being in, and two parties that seek to further divide us on pointless issues just so they can retain power at the expense of the well being of our nation. But yeah, maybe it’s the fact that gay people want to get married and people are smoking the devils lettuce.
This problem is one that will outlast many of the people in power creating it. They are sociopathic and only care about when they are alive and what happens today. There is no care given to the future, thats some one else's problem.
Its a downward spiral and self feeding cycle. The military, mostly our Navy and the 7th carrier fleet are what keeps the dollar in power. It is what makes it so we don't have to worry about money we owe people. But to keep up the charade we need to keep feeding the Military Industrial complex. To keep feeding the Military industrial complex we need to keep borrowing money and printing it. Once we stop feeding it, we loose absolute military domination in the world theatre and once again become liable for our financial liabilities.
The best thing that could happen is a collapse as soon as possible, the longer this goes on for the worse it gets. The sooner it ends the sooner we can rebuild and the sooner the people making these decisions are gone.
And have no doubt when we collapse it will have severe global repercussions, which why the rest of the world plays along in addition to the threat of our military might.
Also don't forget the "American Empire" Is only a post WW2 thing. We don't need to be a global empire. We simply need to get back to an America first isolationist America.
Doc Safari
10-04-17, 11:36
. But yeah, maybe it’s the fact that gay people want to get married and people are smoking the devils lettuce.
Wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about it being okay to cheat, lie, or otherwise do wrong at nearly every level of society--from the checker at Wal-Mart who steals your credit card number to the politician who pads his own pocket while refusing to vote on behalf of his constituents' wishes.
I could give a crap if gay people get married or if someone smokes pot (as long as he's not impaired in a way that endangers other people--then we ARE talking about that person).
I think it probably has more to do with a government that can’t balance a budget, has incredible waste, is overextended in countries we have no business being in, and two parties that seek to further divide us on pointless issues just so they can retain power at the expense of the well being of our nation. But yeah, maybe it’s the fact that gay people want to get married and people are smoking the devils lettuce.
You’re spot on. The problem is our elected officials will continue on with the status quo and we’ll keep electing them cycle after cycle.
The whole outlook looks pretty dim in my eyes. But hey, hopefully I’m wrong.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The US isn't an empire in the classical sense. But we go to and support enough countries that the title may de facto apply. Ironically, the same reason that will likely be one of (if not the biggest) reason for our downfall--economics--is the same reason every 'real' empire has fallen.
Dist. Expert 26
10-04-17, 11:49
This problem is one that will outlast many of the people in power creating it. They are sociopathic and only care about when they are alive and what happens today. There is no care given to the future, thats some one else's problem.
Its a downward spiral and self feeding cycle. The military, mostly our Navy and the 7th carrier fleet are what keeps the dollar in power. It is what makes it so we don't have to worry about money we owe people. But to keep up the charade we need to keep feeding the Military Industrial complex. To keep feeding the Military industrial complex we need to keep borrowing money and printing it. Once we stop feeding it, we loose absolute military domination in the world theatre and once again become liable for our financial liabilities.
The best thing that could happen is a collapse as soon as possible, the longer this goes on for the worse it gets. The sooner it ends the sooner we can rebuild and the sooner the people making these decisions are gone.
And have no doubt when we collapse it will have severe global repercussions, which why the rest of the world plays along in addition to the threat of our military might.
Also don't forget the "American Empire" Is only a post WW2 thing. We don't need to be a global empire. We simply need to get back to an America first isolationist America.
This right here.
Our debt will be our downfall, and likely the stepping off point for the next World War as other countries rush to fill the power vacuum.
Domestically it will be bad, but internationally it will be worse.
BoringGuy45
10-04-17, 12:18
I agree, the moral compass is gone. It's not gay marriage, marijuana, and all that stuff. It's lack of responsibility and lack of unity. Identity politics rule the day, and people are universally more selfish, greedy, lazy, and entitled. Nobody wants to make sacrifices, but they want others to make sacrifices for them. Nobody wants to do anything for themselves, so they elect leaders who create program after unaffordable program to do it for them.
Also, I don't think there has been such large percentage of people who openly WANT our nation to fall. Today America in and of itself is considered to be unworthy of existence due to its racist past is scary. Communism has returned, and we seem to be heading towards a civil war.
We also have huge corporations that are every bit as evil as the government, that are running the country into the ground. There isn't true capitalism anymore; the lobbying is out of control, and when corporations gain monopolies, it's not a "free market", especially when they go to the government to ensure that their monopoly is legally binding. Not only that, it's not a free market when we are forced to use the private sector's services.
Honestly, at this point, we need a war, or something big and bad, that can unite us. It sounds awful, but we need something drastic that will slap this generation in the face and will help us reboot.
crusader377
10-04-17, 12:45
This right here.
Our debt will be our downfall, and likely the stepping off point for the next World War as other countries rush to fill the power vacuum.
Domestically it will be bad, but internationally it will be worse.
The sad thing is in the whole scheme of things American's problems are pretty easy to fix if we had halfway competent leadership in Congress. It is not like the Late Roman empire which was faced with plagues, barbarian invasions on multiple fronts, a declining population, bankruptcy, etc...
America, honestly if it tightened its belt and reigned in entitlements could fix our debt problem within a generation if not sooner.
The US isn't an empire in the classical sense. But we go to and support enough countries that the title may de facto apply. Ironically, the same reason that will likely be one of (if not the biggest) reason for our downfall--economics--is the same reason every 'real' empire has fallen.
This.
Wishful thinking, sir. You forgot about the need to reverse a completely debauched money system that is solely debt based; pay back every dollar and there will be no more dollars because dollars are debt instruments, not stores of value (or wealth). Look into fractional reserve banking and you'll soon find out that debt is how the whole thing works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nBPN-MKefA
The sad thing is in the whole scheme of things American's problems are pretty easy to fix if we had halfway competent leadership in Congress. It is not like the Late Roman empire which was faced with plagues, barbarian invasions on multiple fronts, a declining population, bankruptcy, etc...
America, honestly if it tightened its belt and reigned in entitlements could fix our debt problem within a generation if not sooner.
"Add to this the mounting destruction caused by climate change..."
Is this supposed to be a joke?
Doc Safari
10-04-17, 13:49
Honestly, at this point, we need a war, or something big and bad, that can unite us. It sounds awful, but we need something drastic that will slap this generation in the face and will help us reboot.
Right after 9/11 I would have agreed with you. I am afraid at this point that NOTHING can ever again unite us. Maybe if Kim Jong Un nukes Portland or something we will be united--for a few days--but at this point we are divided to the point of near violence over something like people taking a knee at football games. Unless something happens to restore the notion that we are all Americans first and whatever else second then the country is doomed to come apart.
And I am NOT justifying taking the knee during the national anthem, just that we should be worried about EMP attacks, the country going bankrupt, wars with Russia, China, or North Korea, and such, and not whether a football team does any motherf***ing thing.
"Add to this the mounting destruction caused by climate change..."
Is this supposed to be a joke?
Climate change can also refer to the earth's natural cycles. A lack of a couple of inches rainfall in one area can send a local economy on the edge over the side, leaving folks to starve. Likewise, a fractional degree's difference and you have rain, instead of snow. This quickens the demise of glaciers. Bolivia, for one, is already in crisis:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/28/shrinking-glaciers-state-of-emergency-drought-bolivia
Yep....it's all doomed, abandon all hope......eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you die...right.....right.
Amazingly, I still have hope, but not in men.
sundance435
10-04-17, 16:00
I agree, the moral compass is gone. It's not gay marriage, marijuana, and all that stuff. It's lack of responsibility and lack of unity. Identity politics rule the day, and people are universally more selfish, greedy, lazy, and entitled. Nobody wants to make sacrifices, but they want others to make sacrifices for them. Nobody wants to do anything for themselves, so they elect leaders who create program after unaffordable program to do it for them.
I couldn't agree more with this aspect of your post. The massacre in Vegas is illustrative, to a point; people want the government to step in and ensure their safety by passing a law that will magically make these situations disappear. YOU are primarily responsible for your own safety, you just choose to delegate primary responsibility to the government, which can only react with a hammer and not a scalpel, because that's how governments inherently act. The fact that many things are even framed as "rights" anymore is troubling when all you are really talking about is delegating responsibility.
Gay marriage and pot (drug use) are symptoms not causes.
As long as we got nukes we can do whatever we want
As long as we got nukes we can do whatever we want
Boom! Mic drop SON ...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Doc Safari
10-04-17, 16:48
As long as we got nukes we can do whatever we want
I hear you, but when the Soviet Union broke up wasn't there concern that certain factions had or were in danger of getting their hands on some of the Soviet nukes?
If some faction of the military decides to go rogue five years from now because they can't stand President Slackjaw who hates the military, and they decide to form their own country...etc...etc...
The_War_Wagon
10-04-17, 16:50
Add to this the mounting destruction caused by climate change...
Fake news. He could be spot on with the economics, but when he brings up this nonsense, he's lost all credibility with me.
Doc Safari
10-04-17, 16:55
Fake news. He could be spot on with the economics, but when he brings up this nonsense, he's lost all credibility with me.
LOL. I agree, although when I first read that my thought was "all the mounting destruction caused by the people who promote the concept of climate change."
Climate change can also refer to the earth's natural cycles. A lack of a couple of inches rainfall in one area can send a local economy on the edge over the side, leaving folks to starve. Likewise, a fractional degree's difference and you have rain, instead of snow. This quickens the demise of glaciers. Bolivia, for one, is already in crisis:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/28/shrinking-glaciers-state-of-emergency-drought-bolivia
What does the water being frozen or not have to do with a drought?
What does the water being frozen or not have to do with a drought?
Sorry that wasn't clearer. I was trying to make the point that less rain as a result of the earth's normal cycle of climate change obviously will impact areas of little rainfall. Another example of climate change causing harm is the case illustrated in the article, temperature increases slightly, less snow, more rain at altitude, the rain accelerates erosion of the glacier, and bang, there you are.
Not much we can do about the earth's normal cycle. That the earth's climate changes over time shouldn't be up for debate. What is up for debate is whether man's impact is negligible, or a real issue.
The USA is finished. We the people have allowed our politicians to slowly destroy our country for too many years and we've gone beyond the point of no return. The largest obstacle facing us is the people themselves. Morals and character have greatly diminished. I truly believe that our only salvation is a revolution and the tearing down and rebuilding of our government.
I truly believe that anyone who thinks there is no hope for our country besides war is just as much a part of the problem as anyone else.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm going to say something here and you can Fact check me:
Department Of ______ and budget as of 2016.
State : $47 Billion
Defense: $586 Billion
Transportation: $80 Billion
Interior: $24.5 Billion
Labor: $16 Billion
Agriculture: $160 Billion
Commerce: $9 Billion
Health & Human Services $790 Billion
Housing & Urban Development: $36 Billion
EnergyL $32 Billion
Veteran Affairs: $186 Billion
Education: $72 Billion
Justice: $36 Billion
Treasury: $17.3 Billion
Homeland Security: $46.2 Billion
The Executive Branch Budget equals $2.2 Trillion dollars every year.
Agencies:
There is a list of like 636 agencies all receive a budget between $2.5 million and $12 billion and if you add all the budgets up you get a total of around 4.7 Trillion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government
There are 26 nations including Israel, Greece, Poland and Latvia that receive donations from the US in the amount of more than $10 billion. Not to mention the US is contributing almost 60% of the entire UN budget and upwards to almost 50% of NATO budget.
Here is a list of all the government owned companies"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise#United_States
Included Freddy Mac, Fannie Mae and a list of over a dozen banks.
Trust me because I have spent over 2 hours adding up all the budgets of all the departments, sub departments, agencies, regulatory commissions and government owned /subsidized companies that the bottom line total is
$8,036,186,914,277
USA GDP is $18.5 Trillion
The National Debt is not just Government debt but also includes YOUR mortgage, car loan, credit cards, student loans etc. It represents the entire nations debt. It will never be paid off because our money is backed by debt! Our money is worth more when there is more debt. That is why our money says, "promise to pay", not "paid in full". Debt has a tactical advantage and gives us leverage.
Moose-Knuckle
10-05-17, 06:11
I agree, the moral compass is gone. It's not gay marriage, marijuana, and all that stuff.
We have homosexual marriage, drugs, and all that stuff because the nation's moral compass is gone.
I'm going to say something here and you can Fact check me:
Department Of ______ and budget as of 2016.
State : $47 Billion
Defense: $586 Billion
Transportation: $80 Billion
Interior: $24.5 Billion
Labor: $16 Billion
Agriculture: $160 Billion
Commerce: $9 Billion
Health & Human Services $790 Billion
Housing & Urban Development: $36 Billion
EnergyL $32 Billion
Veteran Affairs: $186 Billion
Education: $72 Billion
Justice: $36 Billion
Treasury: $17.3 Billion
Homeland Security: $46.2 Billion
The Executive Branch Budget equals $2.2 Trillion dollars every year.
Agencies:
There is a list of like 636 agencies all receive a budget between $2.5 million and $12 billion and if you add all the budgets up you get a total of around 4.7 Trillion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government
There are 26 nations including Israel, Greece, Poland and Latvia that receive donations from the US in the amount of more than $10 billion. Not to mention the US is contributing almost 60% of the entire UN budget and upwards to almost 50% of NATO budget.
Here is a list of all the government owned companies"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise#United_States
Included Freddy Mac, Fannie Mae and a list of over a dozen banks.
Trust me because I have spent over 2 hours adding up all the budgets of all the departments, sub departments, agencies, regulatory commissions and government owned /subsidized companies that the bottom line total is
$8,036,186,914,277
USA GDP is $18.5 Trillion
The National Debt is not just Government debt but also includes YOUR mortgage, car loan, credit cards, student loans etc. It represents the entire nations debt. It will never be paid off because our money is backed by debt! Our money is worth more when there is more debt. That is why our money says, "promise to pay", not "paid in full". Debt has a tactical advantage and gives us leverage.
Thank you for compiling. How many of those agencies could be rid altogether <ahem> education <ahem>, and how many could be substantially reduced? With the tax money poured back into the states where it could really benefit people (or left to the individuals pre-tax).
A bloated, cancerous, dying elephant...
sundance435
10-05-17, 08:46
I'm going to say something here and you can Fact check me:
Department Of ______ and budget as of 2016.
$8,036,186,914,277
USA GDP is $18.5 Trillion
The National Debt is not just Government debt but also includes YOUR mortgage, car loan, credit cards, student loans etc. It represents the entire nations debt. It will never be paid off because our money is backed by debt! Our money is worth more when there is more debt. That is why our money says, "promise to pay", not "paid in full". Debt has a tactical advantage and gives us leverage.
I think we're on the same page - "National debt" is a pointless number when you're talking about a country like the United States whose currency is the default currency of the world and also what the majority of debt around the world is denominated in or redeemable for. There is, theoretically, an endless supply of money to service our debt. As long as people keep buying it, there's no need to pay it back. The rampant deficit spending is the core problem, not the outstanding debt.
Doc Safari
10-05-17, 09:09
We have homosexual marriage, drugs, and all that stuff because the nation's moral compass is gone.
Winner!
I didn't want to be the only one to say it.
We can also add that the free shit army has finally realized that the government by and for the people means by and for me to get money from the other taxpayers.
Self serving politicians and the continuous election of these very people. As soon as a large group of people figure out that the US dollar is absolutely worthless, that will be the beginning of the end. At that point I expect an entrepreneurial foreign power to arrive on our left coast under the guise of “helping out”.
The worst part is that this is will have to get much worse in order to get better.
RetroRevolver77
10-06-17, 21:02
I was actually looking at 450 acres with a cabin the other day just because I think things are going to eventually fall apart. At the very least it would serve as a nice getaway for hunting.
I was actually looking at 450 acres with a cabin the other day just because I think things are going to eventually fall apart. At the very least it would serve as a nice getaway for hunting.
1. What state?
2. Are you open to hosting the M4C colony if the societal collapse occurs in the next five years? We'd be well defended...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The death of America is inevitable. We are worse than what we declared independence from in 1776. There is no end to taxation! Our government has put us in a bad position: We the people are obligated to the governments priorities. We the people have become the collateral to our governments debts. There is no real war on terror, terror has become the justification to spy on us, control us and to be involved in every aspect of our lives. As long as terror continues, so does the all the legislation that goes with it. The wars will continue! The US military is the "Put up" so our political leaders don't have to "shut up".
China has appealed to more US business than the US itself and something like $8 Trillion in US labeled goods are manufactured over in China, Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam every year. Its economically better to have money in countries like Finland, Latvia, Austria, Poland, Norway than to keep paying tax on taxed money here in the US.
Something like a 1/8 of the US population believes that socialism works and will work in the US, something like 1/5 believe in some form of redistribution of wealth. In 2015 we had a population of 324,771,608 which only 31 million had the equivalent of a full time job for at least 5 consecutive years. Something like 92 million on welfare or some type of government assistance while 112 million actually had a full/part time job that paid a salary. 1/3 of our country had a job, and 2/3 were either on welfare, retired, stay at home spouse or under the age of 18.
All of this is on the account of several men and women in the House of Representatives and the Senate who lobby for Exxon, Chevron, American Airlines, Bank of America, General Motors and there time is spent not representing us but lobbying for big business in exchange for a board seat that pays a few million a year.
Straight Shooter
10-06-17, 22:11
The worst part is that this is will have to get much worse in order to get better.
As a Christian- I dont believe it will ever get better. Itll get worse and worse and stuff like Vegas will be minor compared to what coming.
As a Christian- I dont believe it will ever get better. Itll get worse and worse and stuff like Vegas will be minor compared to what coming.
Bro, you need to switch over to historic postmillennialism and get some "the gospel prevails" hope. ;)
1. What state?
2. Are you open to hosting the M4C colony if the societal collapse occurs in the next five years? We'd be well defended...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This.
There is no real war on terror
I know some people that would disagree.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"We are worse than what we declared independence from in 1776."
By several orders of magnitude. And we did it with our eyes wide open.
Our descendants will curse us for it.
I know some people that would disagree.
9/11 was what the government wanted, after 9/11 came the patriot act, patriot II act and everyone in the country had to switch to digital cable boxes and switch from cellular technology to digital 3g. Why does the government care how you watch cable? Or is it that with digital cable comes digital internet? Why cellular technology which was far superior had to be switched to digital? Why was the government willing to pay for it? Could it be that digital technology ushered in a new inexpensive means to collect data? Data on millions of people? Internet search history, call logs, voice mails, SMS activity, contacts etc.? Think about that!
The war on terror started by a single decision made during WW1:
We wanted to win WW1 and we needed to focus on the Prussian Empire (Germany) but to do that we needed the Arabs to help us fight the Ottoman Empire (Lawrence of Arabia) because we didn't want to be directly involved, in exchange we gave them there own land: Turkey, Sudan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen, Kuwait and Lebanon. The problem was that the US nor UK didn't understand culture especially middle eastern cultures. Cartographers (people who draw maps) from the US and UK drew simple straight lines and divided the Ottoman empire into several independent nations. The US forced Sunni, Shiites and Kurds to share the same land and they were all promised there own land in exchange for there help. Since WW1 was over, the US and UK walked away and left that entire region in the shape its in today. After WW2 we gave the Jews the same land we gave Palestine. So after WW2, there were Jews, Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds living in the same land we promised each of them. We gave the same land away to 4 groups of people. And we chose to support Israel (which we should) and turned our backs on the Arabs. Except for Iran who the US and UK put in there own leader (Shaw)for cheap oil, who westernized the whole place which led to the Iranian revolution in 1979 with the return of Ayatollah Khomeini who started the entire Islamic revolution. That is the same year the US started buying huge amounts of oil from Iraq and Syria and helped fund the Baath Party. Saddam and Bashar were promised billions for oil if they would oppose Iran (which they did) and the US even funded Iraq during the war with Iran. The US really has created a big mess around the world trying to make one sided deals that benefit only the US and that has come back to bite us. Most of the troubles in the middle east could have been avoided had the US actually sat down and actually thought about the decisions there were making at the time. Saddam was a closet ally of the US before Desert Storm. Bashar Assad was a closet ally of the US before the Arab spring. Iran was a friend of the US until the US and UK put the Shaw in charge. Al-Qaeda and ISIL have received funding and training at one time or in some form directly from the US. These are facts. Wasn't Osama bin laden being funded by the US during the Russia/Afghan war? Wasn't Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (the founder of ISIS) working with CIA during the Russia/Afghan war? Wasn't Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (leader of ISIS) the guy who founded Jamaat Jaysh Ahl al-Sunnah wa-l-Jamaah which turned into the Mujahedeen Shura Council which later changed to Islamic State of Iraq- wasn't he the guy the CIA worked with during the 2003 invasion of Iraq to gather intel on insurgent activity? Wasn't he arrested in 2004 and found with millions in US cash and released within a couple of months as a low level threat? Are we at war with the same people we created?
The war on terror started by a single decision made during WW1:
We wanted to win WW1 and we needed to focus on the Prussian Empire (Germany) but to do that we needed the Arabs to help us fight the Ottoman Empire (Lawrence of Arabia) because we didn't want to be directly involved, in exchange we gave them there own land: Turkey, Sudan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen, Kuwait and Lebanon. The problem was that the US nor UK didn't understand culture especially middle eastern cultures. Cartographers (people who draw maps) from the US and UK drew simple straight lines and divided the Ottoman empire into several independent nations. The US forced Sunni, Shiites and Kurds to share the same land and they were all promised there own land in exchange for there help. Since WW1 was over, the US and UK walked away and left that entire region in the shape its in today. After WW2 we gave the Jews the same land we gave Palestine. So after WW2, there were Jews, Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds living in the same land we promised each of them. We gave the same land away to 4 groups of people. And we chose to support Israel (which we should) and turned our backs on the Arabs. Except for Iran who the US and UK put in there own leader (Shaw)for cheap oil, who westernized the whole place which led to the Iranian revolution in 1979 with the return of Ayatollah Khomeini who started the entire Islamic revolution. That is the same year the US started buying huge amounts of oil from Iraq and Syria and helped fund the Baath Party. Saddam and Bashar were promised billions for oil if they would oppose Iran (which they did) and the US even funded Iraq during the war with Iran. The US really has created a big mess around the world trying to make one sided deals that benefit only the US and that has come back to bite us. Most of the troubles in the middle east could have been avoided had the US actually sat down and actually thought about the decisions there were making at the time. Saddam was a closet ally of the US before Desert Storm. Bashar Assad was a closet ally of the US before the Arab spring. Iran was a friend of the US until the US and UK put the Shaw in charge. Al-Qaeda and ISIL have received funding and training at one time or in some form directly from the US. These are facts. Wasn't Osama bin laden being funded by the US during the Russia/Afghan war? Wasn't Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (the founder of ISIS) working with CIA during the Russia/Afghan war? Wasn't Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (leader of ISIS) the guy who founded Jamaat Jaysh Ahl al-Sunnah wa-l-Jamaah which turned into the Mujahedeen Shura Council which later changed to Islamic State of Iraq- wasn't he the guy the CIA worked with during the 2003 invasion of Iraq to gather intel on insurgent activity? Wasn't he arrested in 2004 and found with millions in US cash and released within a couple of months as a low level threat? Are we at war with the same people we created?
I agree with almost all of that, but none of it means the government wanted 9/11 or that there is no war on terror.
I'm not saying the US actually wanted 9/11 to happed. I'm saying that 9/11 was justification to do anything they wanted. And I have a hard time believing that the GWOT has gone on for so long with little progress. We could have crushed these people.
"We are worse than what we declared independence from in 1776."
By several orders of magnitude. And we did it with our eyes wide open.
Our descendants will curse us for it.
Really?
We aren't being taxed from a different govt. you may not like it, but the American people are voting for them.
And we don't have foreign military telling you they are sleeping in your house.
I don't think people actually think about how bad it was... or am I totally missing something? Don't get me wrong, I don't like the direction we've been going, but it's far from colonial America from what I know - maybe I'm ill informed.
Moose-Knuckle
10-08-17, 04:41
I'm not saying the US actually wanted 9/11 to happed. I'm saying that 9/11 was justification to do anything they wanted.
Have you ever read the NEOCON think tank PNAC's (Project for the New American Century) 1997 publication entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces, and Resources For a New Century?
Really?
We aren't being taxed from a different govt. you may not like it, but the American people are voting for them.
And we don't have foreign military telling you they are sleeping in your house.
I don't think people actually think about how bad it was... or am I totally missing something? Don't get me wrong, I don't like the direction we've been going, but it's far from colonial America from what I know - maybe I'm ill informed.
We were never taxed by a foreign government. We were an established colony under the protection of the crown. The original 13 colonies were not British but under British influence. We had our own government and representatives. Most of our rights existed long before 1776. The colonies had thriving economies, several Dutch colonies along the eastern seaboard dealt in logging and textiles, a lot of the French colonies dealt in cotton, tobacco, wine and hemp, British colonies were big into shipping, ship building and construction. King George never wanted our guns, he wanted a 3% tax on imported tea and an export tax on cotton (because we were selling to France). We are told it was bad and horrible but in reality it wasn't that bad. I mean Yale, Harvard and Princeton already existed in this country an the US marines were founded in 1775- a year before our independence. When you say that a foreign military slept in your home, your talking about the Red Coats, they where not foreign, they in fact were the colonial military along with several militias and helped contribute to the safety of the colonies. It was patriotic to provide for your military. Just as today it is patriotic to donate money to them through various charities or give them discounts on food, clothing etc.
Everything in those days through John Quincy Adams presidency were great, it was until Andrew Jackson created to Democratic party that things started to turn ugly. Jackson was caught up in the Petticoat affair scandal and created the Indian Removal Act, Nullification crisis, Spoils System and started a Bank War. It was the birth of the Democratic party the ruined this country.
RetroRevolver77
10-09-17, 09:59
I read some research data the other day that said the core of the political parties are drifting further apart from the center, now standing at direct polar opposites of one another.
This is not good at all, especially now with the left marginalizing the right in nearly every format.
Dist. Expert 26
10-09-17, 11:30
That seems rather obvious.
Eventually those on the right will tire of being marginalized and something bad will happen.
Doc Safari
10-09-17, 11:34
That seems rather obvious.
Eventually those on the right will tire of being marginalized and something bad will happen.
You can Google it if you want but I've been hearing and reading over the past few days that GOP contributors have closed their wallets. Mitch McConnell was even publicly embarassed at a political function by a contributor who called him and his Congress out for getting nothing done.
That will cause ripples: these idiots exist to fundraise. It's either the end of big contributions or the GOP will have to shit some legislation that their donors want--like repealing Obamacare.
Dist. Expert 26
10-09-17, 11:48
You can Google it if you want but I've been hearing and reading over the past few days that GOP contributors have closed their wallets. Mitch McConnell was even publicly embarassed at a political function by a contributor who called him and his Congress out for getting nothing done.
That will cause ripples: these idiots exist to fundraise. It's either the end of big contributions or the GOP will have to shit some legislation that their donors want--like repealing Obamacare.
Or they'll just appeal to leftist donors and essentially become a clone of the Democratic party.
Doc Safari
10-09-17, 13:07
Or they'll just appeal to leftist donors and essentially become a clone of the Democratic party.
In fact, a lot of them already are. I'm not just talking about Democrats who had to run as Republicans in red districts, but some so-called Republicans are way more liberal than they would have been thirty or forty years ago.
If John F. Kennedy were alive today, he could run as a Republican.
"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." -George Orwell, Animal Farm
America as founded in 1776 died between 1861-1865.
It's been something else ever since.
I'll just leave this here.
https://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/dlubkmvuqaazipx.jpg
BoringGuy45
10-10-17, 00:29
^^^^^^^^
Insensitive, politically incorrect, completely true and something that people need to realize.
The left would have us believe that America is unique in the world, in that we are the ONLY country to EVER have problems with racism or wars of conquest. If they truly want to be honest and equal, they need to demand that EVERY SINGLE statute of every leader ever in the entire world needs to be torn down and every single holiday pertaining to national events in every nation in the world needs to be abolished. With maybe the exception of a few isolated, unreached stone age tribes in the Amazon, Africa, or Papua New Guinea, there's not a single country existing today that is in the hands of its original inhabitants. And every single country's current inhabitants gained their land by taking it by force from another group, who had taken it from another group before them. At the time, it was horrific and unjust. But as time went on, the newly drawn map became accepted, and the bloody wars and genocide that created it became nothing more than a section that later generations read in their histories.
But that's just the base theme of radical leftism: That the world as it is now and was before is beyond redemption, and so the answer is to wipe the slate completely clean and create a new world that is 100% without inequality, racism, or war, untarnished by the world before it.
Ironically, that means that they would have to go to war, take land from the current inhabitants and kill millions of them in order to create their new world. This, of course, would mean they are nothing more than our generation's Christopher Columbus.
America as founded in 1776 died between 1861-1865.
It's been something else ever since.
Correct. It was the end of states' rights and the beginning of a strong federal government that controlled the states and thus the people.
RetroRevolver77
10-10-17, 09:34
The people are awakening.
Doc Safari
10-10-17, 09:47
The people are awakening.
Yes, and the Deep State is realizing this. Can't have an aware and active populace, you know.
How will they respond? Lessee....all the mass shootings cause there to be TSA checkpoints every few miles. Nah, maybe in a few years.
How about chipping everybody so you can control their spending habits, movements, and track their every move. Yeah, that'd be inexpensive.
I know! They'll use Obamacare to control everybody! That's why they won't repeal it! Every good Commie knows if you control health care you control the population.
Doctor: "How many guns do you have? By law you must answer truthfully under penalty of perjury."
Days go by.
SWAT team shows up at your door.
"Mr. Smith, we need to take your guns. You take blood pressure meds and we just can't take a chance on one of the side effects being that you go on a shooting spree."
You: "But I've never even BEEN to Vegas."
SWAT commander: "That's okay, sir. Travel is no longer allowed without government approval."
RetroRevolver77
10-10-17, 10:39
Yes, and the Deep State is realizing this. Can't have an aware and active populace, you know.
How will they respond? Lessee....all the mass shootings cause there to be TSA checkpoints every few miles. Nah, maybe in a few years.
How about chipping everybody so you can control their spending habits, movements, and track their every move. Yeah, that'd be inexpensive.
I know! They'll use Obamacare to control everybody! That's why they won't repeal it! Every good Commie knows if you control health care you control the population.
Doctor: "How many guns do you have? By law you must answer truthfully under penalty of perjury."
Days go by.
SWAT team shows up at your door.
"Mr. Smith, we need to take your guns. You take blood pressure meds and we just can't take a chance on one of the side effects being that you go on a shooting spree."
You: "But I've never even BEEN to Vegas."
SWAT commander: "That's okay, sir. Travel is no longer allowed without government approval."
Google; "high incident project".
Leaked a few weeks ago, essentially exactly what you are describing- scanners/metal detectors in nearly every major public place.
Doc Safari
10-10-17, 10:42
Google; "high incident project".
Leaked a few weeks ago, essentially exactly what you are describing- scanners/metal detectors in nearly every major public place.
Yep. Isn't it interesting TSA gets away with everything?
Remember Obama's call for a civilian force with the same power as the military.
Why has the new POTUS not even mentioned reigning in TSA? Not even once.
Google; "high incident project".
Leaked a few weeks ago, essentially exactly what you are describing- scanners/metal detectors in nearly every major public place.
Intolerable Acts.
Yep. Isn't it interesting TSA gets away with everything?
Remember Obama's call for a civilian force with the same power as the military.
Why has the new POTUS not even mentioned reigning in TSA? Not even once.
Because he's made from the same cloth.
"Intolerable Acts"...the more things change, the more they're the same.
Damn, people are dumb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nho42QE2jKE
RetroRevolver77
10-10-17, 14:56
Guys this is what I was mentioning in another thread about the Pew Research Data showing the two political parties are drifting apart. The article discusses that there is no more commality between the two parties. The Left absolutely does not respect any of the right's viewpoints. This could in turn spark a major serious conflict, not just the violent protests we've been seeing- something far worse.
From the article:
"The Pew study measures responses to issues Pew has been asking about since 1994, things like welfare, race, and immigration. On almost every count, the gaps between Republicans and Democrats held more or less steady up until around 2010, when they began to widen. Today, “Republicans and Democrats are now further apart ideologically than at any point in more than two decades,” with the median Republican more conservative than 97 percent of Democrats and the median Democrat more liberal than 95 percent of Republicans."
http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/10/lefts-sirens-already-hinting-culture-wars-will-end-another-civil-war/
Guys this is what I was mentioning in another thread about the Pew Research Data showing the two political parties are drifting apart. The article discusses that there is no more commality between the two parties. The Left absolutely does not respect any of the right's viewpoints. This could in turn spark a major serious conflict, not just the violent protests we've been seeing- something far worse.
From the article:
"The Pew study measures responses to issues Pew has been asking about since 1994, things like welfare, race, and immigration. On almost every count, the gaps between Republicans and Democrats held more or less steady up until around 2010, when they began to widen. Today, “Republicans and Democrats are now further apart ideologically than at any point in more than two decades,” with the median Republican more conservative than 97 percent of Democrats and the median Democrat more liberal than 95 percent of Republicans."
http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/10/lefts-sirens-already-hinting-culture-wars-will-end-another-civil-war/
When I was in college in the late 80s a poli sci professor showed two graphs; a bell curve, how politics should be (with people amassing near the mean), and an inverted bell curve. We have now, and will continue to have, a worsening inverted bell curve.
I am fairly libertarian, and conservatives hate me for being too liberal, and liberals hate me for being too conservative.
sundance435
10-10-17, 15:27
Not sure if it was the Pew study, but Bloomberg and Politico, within the last few months, had stories about research showing that there is a correlation between Republican voters being less accepting of societies/groups with non-Judeo-Christian values. The flipside is that Democrats, while more educated, were markedly more hostile to people who don't share their same view of what's "right"; they completely dismiss differing opinions/beliefs as just wrong; there is no room for difference of opinion or compromise. Maybe I'm not explaining the distinction well enough, but there is an important difference between the two types of "prejudice" the survey studied; one is more about resistance to change and the other is about imposing one's belief of what is right because the virtuousness of their position is so obvious. Of course the media was quick to point out the dumb, bible-thumping hick aspect.
Doc Safari
10-10-17, 15:28
Whatever the details might be, the unwillingness of either side to respect the other's point of view will definitely be cited as a major contributor to Civil War 2. That is, if any of us are still around to debate such things in the aftermath.
skywalkrNCSU
10-10-17, 15:33
I read a few months back, don’t know the source anymore, that our political parties were getting more and more divided but the American people are actually more centrist in their thinking. It is clear that the political parties don’t really want to represent the people and so as long as we keep voting them into office they have no incentive to change. Things like single issue voters only help perpetuate this on both sides.
FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) has a little, free, ebook on their site that discusses the fall of the Roman Empire. It's a quick (~5min) and interesting read that doesn't paint a very good picture for the future of the United States.
PDF is here:
Are We Rome? (https://fee.org/media/14973/fee-arewerome.pdf)
FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) has a little, free, ebook on their site that discusses the fall of the Roman Empire. It's a quick (~5min) and interesting read that doesn't paint a very good picture for the future of the United States.
PDF is here:
Are We Rome? (https://fee.org/media/14973/fee-arewerome.pdf)
Good read.
Under every measurement, from financial growth and infrastructure investment to advanced technology, including supercomputers, space weaponry and cyberwarfare, we are being rapidly overtaken by the Chinese
It was inevitable. I mean, exactly how long do folks think we could hold off a country with 5x our population? They weren't going to ride bicycles forever...
It was inevitable. I mean, exactly how long do folks think we could hold off a country with 5x our population? They weren't going to ride bicycles forever...
Most of them can't even read their own language and are so overpopulated and polluted that it is kinda sad.
China is not, nor shall they ever be the Soviet Union.
Everybody thought we'd be speaking Japanese by now and the only people who do are the guys with love pillows, because their economy crashed and burned. More people are dying than being born.
The Chinese killing off all those girls have stilted the male/female ratio to the point where at some point once enough of their workforce ages out, they will be in a "Mars needs women" scenario.
And I didnt know America was an "empire".
FEE (Foundation for Economic Education) has a little, free, ebook on their site that discusses the fall of the Roman Empire. It's a quick (~5min) and interesting read that doesn't paint a very good picture for the future of the United States.
PDF is here:
Are We Rome? (https://fee.org/media/14973/fee-arewerome.pdf)
Excellent read. I printed out and sent it to a few friends. I wonder if that hog trick really works......might have to try it.
Guys this is what I was mentioning in another thread about the Pew Research Data showing the two political parties are drifting apart. The article discusses that there is no more commonality between the two parties. Far apart? Hell, you can't tell the difference between them in office except on a couple of issues. Neither have done crap to dismantle the welfare state, redistribution programs (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.), bureaucracy, PC in the military and VA system, the IRS, TSA, or HUD, the student loan program which has quadrupled the price of college, etc. They agree on at least 95% of the budget.
I read a few months back, don’t know the source anymore, that our political parties were getting more and more divided but the American people are actually more centrist in their thinking. It is clear that the political parties don’t really want to represent the people and so as long as we keep voting them into office they have no incentive to change. Things like single issue voters only help perpetuate this on both sides.
Mostly true, but if somebody decides they are a "single issue voter", and all they care about is "free speech", isn't that their right?
For me the actual problem is that it seems the two parties have divided up our rights and each party represents half of them. This leaves the centerist out in the cold for the most party.
Care about guns, well the GOP isn't the NRA but nearly every Democrat would support a complete ban. But it was the Supreme Court under George Bush Jr. that ruled eminent domain can be used for private use which is the most blatant violation of the specific language of the Constitution that I have ever seen.
Sadly if you want ALL of your rights respected that means you are Libertarian but it also means you have virtually zero representation in Congress and will never see a President that shares your views. For all the membership fees I've given the NRA over the years it was the Cato Institute that brought us the Heller decision, and they even had to deal with a few NRA roadblocks. Of course now the NRA acts like it was their idea.
But for all the naysayers, we've been through worse. There was so much government socialism in the 1930s and early 40s that I don't think anyone here could have survived it. The government attacked WWI veterans who were engaged in peaceful protest, adopted eugenics programs, forcibly sterilized citizens it declared "indigent" and put people into actual camps (Japanese, German and Italian) without due process and often based upon suspicion alone.
We still don't enjoy all of our rights in the way we are supposed to have them, but when was the last time they rounded up anyone and put them into actual camps? Lots of people here view that time as the lost "good old days" and think today all is lost.
The only good thing is every government knows there is no benefit to running the well dry, so while economies rise and fall the one thing everyone in Congress agrees upon is everyone (except them) needs to be working so they can hand over their 30%. And they will do everything they can to keep the gravy train moving down the tracks.
those good old days of the KKK and other things camps and trampling of rights brought to you buy the Dems
it failed and they had to pull back change names and tactics and are ramping up to do more and worse IMHO not violating your rights but taking them away!
what party signed us into WWI WWII and Korea and Vietnam so who are the war mongers and controllers by power?
even under Reagan our country was in charge/control of imprisoning and torturing folks in other countries to control what they needed to?
the right, on the other hand, has slid to appease the lefties over that time ( example above and the middle east mess) and is now so weak and infiltrated with traitors to what the party is/was about that its also no good?
the two sides are closer than ever with each other and further from the people than ever
choosing a side is like being asked do you want me to smash the left side or right side of your face ! and most of us are well neither :)
the lefties like the nazis which they are basically one in the same even though they think the conservatives are :) hhahhaahha ironic
are doing exactly what they did in Nazi Germany taking over with a small percentage using fear and violence and targeting etc..
sadly history does repeat itself and in history, no nation or system has ever lasted at the top very long I really do fear are days are numbered but we are not there yet
Outlander Systems
10-23-17, 11:19
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article179971861.html
It was inevitable. I mean, exactly how long do folks think we could hold off a country with 5x our population? They weren't going to ride bicycles forever...
It is because politicians always figure out they can buy votes with free stuff. Half the people in America have no skin in the game as they don't pay Fed Income Tax, and probably very little other income tax. They will vote Commie every time.
The only way for us to right the ship is for every able bodied American man to quit their jobs, lift all day, wife up five women, have a lot of kids, headbutt the Iranian flag, and go out and build stuff. Blast Outlaw Country and or legit gangster rap while doing so.
Voluntarily move into a bad neighborhood and reclaim it the hard way. Publicly shame bronies and the questioning with some hardcore locker room style hazing.
And if you see someone doing wrong, dont dial 911. Put their ass in a headlock and walk their ass to a cop noogieying them bald the whole way gone. Removing the press 1 for English option from everything would also help.
Also buy more 4x4s and quit voting for bitches who wear cowboy hats. She looks like an old ass stripper.
So tl;dr lift more and have more kids
ETA. An illustrated example of someone Americaning the right way
http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ultimate-warrior-gif-10.gif
I'm actually kind of serious like yes. This is my advice
#MAGA
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.