View Full Version : U.S. SpecOps troops ambushed in Niger
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/04/us-forces-ambushed-in-niger-officials-say.html
Breaking now. Looks like it was a joint U.S.-Nigerian patrol.
A squad of U.S. Special Operations troops have been ambushed in the west African country of Niger, U.S. officials told Fox News Wednesday.
U.S. Africa Command confirmed that a joint patrol of U.S. and Nigerien soliders came under fire in the southwestern part of the country, near the border with Mali. The statement did not mention any casualties, but officials are concerned there may be fatalities.
The officials told Fox News that between eight and 10 troops were part of the patrol.
Just saw they're saying 3 KIA. :mad:
Otto von Bismarck said that the Balkans "were not worth the bones of one Pomeranian grenadier".
Pray tell what in Niger is worth 3 SFs KIA and 2 WIA?!
Coal Dragger
10-05-17, 01:30
Not a damn thing.
FID in undesirable places is what those guys are all about.
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Is that AO the jungle part of Africa or more open and desert-ish?
Is that AO the jungle part of Africa or more open and desert-ish?
It is open.
FID in undesirable places is what those guys are all about.
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#truth
RIP
sundance435
10-05-17, 08:14
FID in undesirable places is what those guys are all about.
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Yes, Green Berets have been doing exactly this kind of work for 50+ years, before Vietnam. This type of mission is why they exist as a unit. Not saying it's worth losing American soldiers, but this is the work they do. Their effectiveness at training the indigenous directly relates to us NOT having 500 "advisors" in Niger or various other hellholes.
Otto von Bismarck said that the Balkans "were not worth the bones of one Pomeranian grenadier".
Pray tell what in Niger is worth 3 SFs KIA and 2 WIA?!
I worked with a guy 20 years ago that had been a Ranger. He had a picture in his office of himself and his squad that I thought had been taken in the ME. He said "Nope, Chad/Sudan border." I thought it strange, he just said that I'd be surprised at the places we had boots on the ground.
Otto von Bismarck said that the Balkans "were not worth the bones of one Pomeranian grenadier".
Pray tell what in Niger is worth 3 SFs KIA and 2 WIA?!
Nothing today that is for sure. Africa is going to be the next source of exploitable labor and natural resources. Lots of countries have boots there trying to establish themselves. That unstable shithole will take decades to stabilize enough to be ready for exploitation once China and India dry up.
Prayer for the dead and injured.
Nothing today that is for sure. Africa is going to be the next source of exploitable labor and natural resources. Lots of countries have boots there trying to establish themselves. That unstable shithole will take decades to stabilize enough to be ready for exploitation once China and India dry up.
Prayer for the dead and injured.
Accurate assessment, about 150 years too late. The French, Belgians, English, Spain, Portugal, and Germany colonized Africa for the labor and resources; the US and the USSR/Russia has been in and out of there since the 40s.
I love Africa; there are some really great countries, but a lot of good money chasing bad, and I don't know that any outcome will be changed.
Accurate assessment, about 150 years too late. The French, Belgians, English, Spain, Portugal, and Germany colonized Africa for the labor and resources; the US and the USSR/Russia has been in and out of there since the 40s.
I love Africa; there are some really great countries, but a lot of good money chasing bad, and I don't know that any outcome will be changed.
It’s going to have to change over the next few decades. If it doesn’t be prepared for some serious economic issues. China will in the near term become internally focused and we will continue to loose access to their slave labor. India will also mature there after. Someone needs to be the worlds slave labor force or nobody is going to afford squat. Parts of South America are passable, but it’s not enough. Without cheap exploitable slave labor who is going to make stuff fit us to consume at an affordable price?? Either that or an economic paradigm shift happens. Sadly, slave labor is far more profitable than paradigm shifts.
It’s going to have to change over the next few decades. If it doesn’t be prepared for some serious economic issues. China will in the near term become internally focused and we will continue to loose access to their slave labor. India will also mature there after. Someone needs to be the worlds slave labor force or nobody is going to afford squat. Parts of South America are passable, but it’s not enough. Without cheap exploitable slave labor who is going to make stuff fit us to consume at an affordable price?? Either that or an economic paradigm shift happens. Sadly, slave labor is far more profitable than paradigm shifts.
You are right, and I am not arguing with your conclusion, just pointing out that your conclusion was realized a long time ago. It's true that when there is a higher proportion of cheap labor than profitable exports, that labor becomes the export.
sundance435
10-06-17, 09:47
Accurate assessment, about 150 years too late. The French, Belgians, English, Spain, Portugal, and Germany colonized Africa for the labor and resources; the US and the USSR/Russia has been in and out of there since the 40s.
I love Africa; there are some really great countries, but a lot of good money chasing bad, and I don't know that any outcome will be changed.
Don't forget the Dutch and the Eyeties. There really wasn't a Western European power that didn't try to exploit Africa (except Austria-Hungary). I highly recommend "Leopold's Ghost" for a primer on the subject, though it's fairly specific to the Belgians, who were by all accounts some of the worst colonial abusers.
South Africa is on my shortlist for a trip in the near future. I figure that should help me decide if I want to explore Africa further, with Namibia and Botswana being the next likely candidates.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-06-17, 10:14
Fair winds and follwing seas to those warriors.
C'est l'Afrique
Pray tell what in Niger is worth 3 SFs KIA and 2 WIA?!
Yeah, maybe we should leave those secular, moderate or democratic countries to themselves. At least until AQ or ISIS take over.
http://nypost.com/2017/10/06/fourth-us-soldier-confirmed-killed-in-niger-ambush-officials/
Looks like there was apparently a fourth SF guy who was MIA and his body was found yesterday and turned over to the U.S.
Must've been a pretty bad situation for them to leave a guy behind. Maybe they knew he was dead?
Oh this only makes the situation worse.....additional remains of the deceased SF support guy LaDavid Johnson have been found.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5104689/Additional-remains-Sgt-La-David-Johnson-Niger.html
Read somewhere that he was found with his hands bound behind his back. I'm hoping an off-the-record retribution is coming to those responsible. Too bad we don't use napalm anymore 'cause that particular village could use a healthy dose of it for setting them up.
I read the same things. It's a real mess for sure.
NYH1.
Video just came out from the helmet cam of one of those killed during the ambush. After watching it don't know what to say. They very last part is tough.
https://sofrep.com/100433/breaking-footage-of-isis-ambushing-u-s-special-forces-in-niger/
Dist. Expert 26
03-05-18, 10:20
Video just came out from the helmet cam of one of those killed during the ambush. After watching it don't know what to say. They very last part is tough.
https://sofrep.com/100433/breaking-footage-of-isis-ambushing-u-s-special-forces-in-niger/
A lot of people are up in arms about the video getting out, but I think it serves as a sobering reality check. War isn't a game, we don't always win and even the best we have to offer get beat sometimes.
It was very difficult to watch. Till Valhalla.
I have mixed feelings about it being released. I will tell you if I was the family I would not want to see that. Or, I would want to see it before it got released to the public. But I do think it's important for people to know that it ain't a video game and it's not like it is in the movies.
I know when they was in Iraq myself and my guys all agreed that if we got killed and footage was available that we would want others to see it to learn off of our mistakes or enemy tactics. A lot of my partners in the LE side feel the same way.
I do think it is an invaluable training aid. Whether it gets disseminated to the public, and how it gets disseminated, I think is debatable.
dwhitehorne
03-05-18, 12:58
I hope the family never has to see that. I does confirm when you are attached to locals you are always on your own. David
I don’t think that should’ve been released publicly. That was really bad. Circulated around groups that can use it sure, but limited to CAC access at least.
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TexasAggie2005
03-05-18, 13:14
I don’t think that should’ve been released publicly. That was really bad. Circulated around groups that can use it sure, but limited to CAC access at least.
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ISIS released it, not the US.
ISIS released it, not the US.
Fair enough, poor wording in my part. I know they released it but SOFREP should not be spreading it like they are.
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Dist. Expert 26
03-05-18, 14:02
Fair enough, poor wording in my part. I know they released it but SOFREP should not be spreading it like they are.
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Without the video these guys are just 4 names in a story with generic pictures attached. Now they'll be seen as the warriors they were, fighting until the last man. I'd want the same if I'd died in combat.
WickedWillis
03-05-18, 14:02
Fair enough, poor wording in my part. I know they released it but SOFREP should not be spreading it like they are.
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I agree with this. SOFREP is taking quite a bit of heat from plenty of spots on social media. You don't want this going viral on our end because it will get to the families, and they will see how bad it was.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-05-18, 15:52
Those dudes fought hard, down to the last man and last rounds, til their bodies wouldn't allow them to continue to fight. I know some are angry about SOFREP posting the video, and I totally get it, but it helped me understand the situation and just how heroic their last stand was.
Those dudes fought hard, down to the last man and last rounds, til their bodies wouldn't allow them to continue to fight. I know some are angry about SOFREP posting the video, and I totally get it, but it helped me understand the situation and just how heroic their last stand was.
Agree totally. The very last part is what hit hard. Pisses you off watching that.
Those dudes fought hard, down to the last man and last rounds, til their bodies wouldn't allow them to continue to fight. I know some are angry about SOFREP posting the video, and I totally get it, but it helped me understand the situation and just how heroic their last stand was.
Yeah, but I can’t imagine how the families are feeling right now.
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Agree ^^^ Yes it is hard to watch but people need to be reminded every now and then of the reality our deployed troops might have to face. Also about the way it ended, at first I was pissed off at what was done, but after thinking some it was really the merciful thing to do, end the suffering. There were not going to be any dust off's coming for those guy's, no well trained and equipped medic's.
Man, that very last part.......
Fair enough, poor wording in my part. I know they released it but SOFREP should not be spreading it like they are.
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It was out there, it was going to be viewed, maybe the SOFREP version is edited and better than the raw version, you know ISIS did not block out the faces like in this one. I could see them doing this to try and control the message somewhat and steal ISIS thunder.
Man, that very last part.......
Same here. Kinda wish I never clicked that link.
It was out there, it was going to be viewed, maybe the SOFREP version is edited and better than the raw version, you know ISIS did not block out the faces like in this one. I could see them doing this to try and control the message somewhat and steal ISIS thunder.
Dude SOFREP was already very questionable. There’s been a few instances over the years where the owner was suspected of at least really stretching the truth to stay relevant. Most of the shit they publish is garbage.
This thing wouldn’t have circulated nearly as much if they hadn’t pushed it. The ****ing army times is reporting on it now.
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LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-05-18, 20:55
I'm still not sure how I feel. The SF community of which Sofrep is a part of should probably be doing a better job to shield the families from this video. If my son had to watch a video of my death, geez. On the other hand, even as a veteran, it was an eye opener to the realities of real combat in dangerous places and the heroism of men far better than men.
tough to watch do think its OK to get out but the chance of abuse from other side is there ?
being in my older age if I was a parent would hate that but use it to say why the heck are we over in these POS nations trying to help when they just crap on us in return sadly
we need to pull out and if any country wants help charge them a huge amount and get soldiers part of that
also any group that does harm to our country put the word out we find where they are from and we will come back so freaking hard no pulled punches and destroy places that allow this to happen
getting tired of being the punching bag of the world when we are the last standing hope
Voodoochild
03-06-18, 18:46
The French foreign legion are pretty active in Africa as well. They have a lot of Intel on those areas they used to control as colonies.
What does piss me off is that there were no US air assets available for support, what did finally show up was some French fighters and I don't think they ever did drop any bombs or if they did there was some delay.
Dist. Expert 26
03-06-18, 23:43
What does piss me off is that there were no US air assets available for support, what did finally show up was some French fighters and I don't think they ever did drop any bombs or if they did there was some delay.
Such is the reality of Special Forces. As unfortunate as that is, we simply can't have fighters on station everywhere we've got boots on the ground. These guys knew they had no backup, which in my book makes their actions all the more admirable.
Such is the reality of Special Forces. As unfortunate as that is, we simply can't have fighters on station everywhere we've got boots on the ground. These guys knew they had no backup, which in my book makes their actions all the more admirable.
Very true. A big part of their job is being in places where they have little American support. Iraq and Afghanistan were kind of anomalies in that sense.
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It was supposed to be an administrative Patrol, and the tasking got changed at the last minute. They had no idea what they were walking into of course, but these guys are used to being in operations with zero support from anyone. I hope that the chain of command can use the video to learn and adapt.
Outlander Systems
03-07-18, 11:56
There were. ROE agreement with host nation forbade the arming of UAVs; French AS couldn't IFF ground forces.
What does piss me off is that there were no US air assets available for support, what did finally show up was some French fighters and I don't think they ever did drop any bombs or if they did there was some delay.
Same here. Kinda wish I never clicked that link.
^^That was awful. Prayers for those guys. True warriors.
There were. ROE agreement with host nation forbade the arming of UAVs; French AS couldn't IFF ground forces.
I hadn’t really read into the background of the incident. Kind of glad I didn’t.
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Same here. Kinda wish I never clicked that link.
From the comments I'm seeing, I'm not gonna watch it. I'm good. Not sure if this is just ass covering or not, but:
Deadly U.S. Mission in Niger Lacked Proper Approval, Military Probe Finds
http://time.com/5187330/niger-attack-probe-approval/
Such is the reality of Special Forces. As unfortunate as that is, we simply can't have fighters on station everywhere we've got boots on the ground. These guys knew they had no backup, which in my book makes their actions all the more admirable.
I hope payback, probably happening as we speak, will be a real mother - fer. RIP
platoonDaddy
05-18-18, 17:09
17 May 2018 advertised as: We've Posted The Pentagon's Entire Moment-By-Moment Niger Ambush Video Briefing
http://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/the-war-zone/20936/weve-posted-the-pentagons-entire-moment-by-moment-niger-ambush-video-briefing?source=dam
Toyoland66
05-18-18, 21:05
That answers a lot of my questions, thanks for posting
El Vaquero
05-20-18, 00:32
Looks like it was a shit sandwich. I hope to someday hear how it went down from someone that was actually there (one of the SF guys). (I just watched 13 Hours for the second time so maybe I’m just a little skeptical of big Governments version of events.)
If this is how it went down then it looks like the DOD is saying or inferring; 1) the Nigerian force shagged ass and saved themselves. 2) the SOF guys kinda went rogue and supplanted a different mission plan than was submitted. 3) Seems to infer poor planning, tactics, and supervision for allowing the mission to continue after helicopter support turned back due to weather leaving them without a backup unit so to speak. Even going so far as to mention how they stayed 30 minutes longer talking to Village elders than they were supposed to.
We all know in this type of game we’re not going to win them all but it sure sucks to see good men die out there.
I know from watching the video, I didnt understand why they did the things they did... but several of the Americans supoort personnel, not shooters. I would imagine that was a factor.
Not sure its been linked in this thread, but there is a presentation that has been released that does a play by play on what happened, showing their actions on a map. It answered a bunch of questions, and raised a bunch more.
I know from watching the video, I didnt understand why they did the things they did... but several of the Americans supoort personnel, not shooters. I would imagine that was a factor.
Not sure its been linked in this thread, but there is a presentation that has been released that does a play by play on what happened, showing their actions on a map. It answered a bunch of questions, and raised a bunch more.
IIRC the video said nine SF, two support guys (one of which was KIA), and an intel dude contractor. That’s not a bad ratio of trigger pullers.
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Looks like it was a shit sandwich. I hope to someday hear how it went down from someone that was actually there (one of the SF guys). (I just watched 13 Hours for the second time so maybe I’m just a little skeptical of big Governments version of events.)
If this is how it went down then it looks like the DOD is saying or inferring; 1) the Nigerian force shagged ass and saved themselves. 2) the SOF guys kinda went rogue and supplanted a different mission plan than was submitted. 3) Seems to infer poor planning, tactics, and supervision for allowing the mission to continue after helicopter support turned back due to weather leaving them without a backup unit so to speak. Even going so far as to mention how they stayed 30 minutes longer talking to Village elders than they were supposed to.
We all know in this type of game we’re not going to win them all but it sure sucks to see good men die out there.
1. Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, it happens all of the time, and I’m not sure that they can do this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of SF guys almost expect it.
2. Going rogue is probably quite an exaggeration. There are many, many accounts of SOF teams losing the initiative because of significant requirements to push detailed plans up multiple levels of command. It is very likely that they knew what they were getting themselves into and made that choice as a calculated risk so that they would not lose the HVT. Or maybe they really didn’t know, either way, “rogue” is pretty dramatic.
3. See above about losing the initiative. I’m sure the duration of the KLE was a big indicator, in hind sight. I’m also sure they picked up on it at the time, but probably had no way of knowing for sure what it may lead to. Their job is working by, with, and through the locals. They can’t just blow off a meeting because it was taking longer than they expected.
ETA - the biggest thing I noticed was how guys kept accidentally getting left behind. Just about every single American that died was, at least at one point, attempting to get back into a truck to get out of the kill zone but couldn’t because of enemy fire. Other personnel and vehicles were able to get out, leaving 1-3 guys. That must’ve been a shitty feeling, and I’m sure the enemy very quickly took advantage and achieved full fire superiority. I’m sure it would’ve been the last thing any of them would want to do, but a slow roll from the lead vehicle until they could see all other vehicles moving would’ve kept a lot more guns in the fight until everyone was mounted and ready to haul ass.
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El Vaquero
05-20-18, 04:49
1. Maybe true, maybe not. Either way, it happens all of the time, and I’m not sure that they can do this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of SF guys almost expect it.
2. Going rogue is probably quite an exaggeration. There are many, many accounts of SOF teams losing the initiative because of significant requirements to push detailed plans up multiple levels of command. It is very likely that they knew what they were getting themselves into and made that choice as a calculated risk so that they would not lose the HVT. Or maybe they really didn’t know, either way, “rogue” is pretty dramatic.
3. See above about losing the initiative. I’m sure the duration of the KLE was a big indicator, in hind sight. I’m also sure they picked up on it at the time, but probably had no way of knowing for sure what it may lead to. Their job is working by, with, and through the locals. They can’t just blow off a meeting because it was taking longer than they expected.
ETA - the biggest thing I noticed was how guys kept accidentally getting left behind. Just about every single American that died was, at least at one point, attempting to get back into a truck to get out of the kill zone but couldn’t because of enemy fire. Other personnel and vehicles were able to get out, leaving 1-3 guys. That must’ve been a shitty feeling, and I’m sure the enemy very quickly took advantage and achieved full fire superiority. I’m sure it would’ve been the last thing any of them would want to do, but a slow roll from the lead vehicle until they could see all other vehicles moving would’ve kept a lot more guns in the fight until everyone was mounted and ready to haul ass.
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All good points. I agree with what you’re saying. I think you missed what I was trying to say. My comments are just based on the tone and vibe of the video the DOD published. I think that’s the impression they want the public to receive. My point being if the participants in the Benghazi Attack never broke their silence and told their version, all we would be left with is the Governments. Which seemed to differ from the participants. After hearing the differences in the Benghazi Attack it definitely makes one question the credibility of our Governments version sometimes.
All good points. I agree with what you’re saying. I think you missed what I was trying to say. My comments are just based on the tone and vibe of the video the DOD published. I think that’s the impression they want the public to receive. My point being if the participants in the Benghazi Attack never broke their silence and told their version, all we would be left with is the Governments. Which seemed to differ from the participants. After hearing the differences in the Benghazi Attack it definitely makes one question the credibility of our Governments version sometimes.
Yeah I did misunderstand that, and definitely agree.
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Otto von Bismarck said that the Balkans "were not worth the bones of one Pomeranian grenadier".
Pray tell what in Niger is worth 3 SFs KIA and 2 WIA?!Why was Korea, Vietnam, the middle east. Africa as well as Afghanistan worth one of our brave and great peoples life.
Why was Korea, Vietnam, the middle east. Africa as well as Afghanistan worth one of our brave and great peoples life.
Well we were attacked by terrorists harbored in Afghanistan. To not go kill them would have been some weak ass shit.
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WickedWillis
06-18-18, 12:15
Well we were attacked by terrorists harbored in Afghanistan. To not go kill them would have been some weak ass shit.
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Or if you subscribe to it, Afghanistan for opiates, Iraq for oil. Both of which were needed for our consumption and economy as a Country.
Or if you subscribe to it, Afghanistan for opiates, Iraq for oil. Both of which were needed for our consumption and economy as a Country.
Well, I'm gonna go with what Wake27 said...... "Well we were attacked by terrorists harbored in Afghanistan. To not go kill them would have been some weak ass shit." Conspiracy theories might exist for a reason, but I'm 52 so I was a well-informed adult on 9-11 and the ensuing years.
We went into OEF for the right reasons: To remove Al Qaeda from their sanctuaries in Afghanistan and remove the Islamic fundamentalist government which facilitated that, the aim being to establish an "order" (government?) that would not allow that to occur in the future. Whether we pulled it off with long-term success and the decisions we made along the way may be up for debate, to me the reason why were went there will never be up for debate.
Mr. Goodtimes
06-18-18, 19:17
We hardly need Afghanistan to support our opiate addiction. With ample fertile farm land here, we can grow enough to supply the entire world and then some.
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Or if you subscribe to it, Afghanistan for opiates, Iraq for oil. Both of which were needed for our consumption and economy as a Country.
How much oil do you think Iraq has exported in the last 18 years.............they had one (1) refinery after we invaded and it didn't even take care of their needs.
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