BCM Recce-16 Carbine & DD M4V5 kissing cousins [Archive]

View Full Version : BCM Recce-16 Carbine & DD M4V5 kissing cousins

Fuzzy-Reticle

10-07-17, 16:37

Recently I acquired a BCM Recce-16 Carbine with the QRF handguard. I have owned a few BCM uppers and KMR handgaurds along with many of their Gunfighter charging handles but this is my first complete BCM rifle. As you would expect everything is perfect right out of the box. All I needed to do was add an optic and go.

I also have a DD M4V5. The BCM and DD M4v5 are very similar in many ways. I thought I would compare the two for those who might be considering purchasing one of these two carbines but is having trouble deciding.

I got the BCM because I wanted a complete BCM rifle and because I liked the QRF handguard better than the KMR handgaurds I have used. The KMR was just too skinny for me. I wanted to like them but didn't after using them for a while. Just my experience and YMMV.

There are more similarities than differences between the two carbines.

Out of the box the differences boil down to the following

Furniture
Muzzle Device
Quad rail mounting method
Charging handle
DD uses a CHF barrel and my BCM is not listed as having a CHF. BCM does offer CHF barrels.
Buffer weight
Trigger

Subjectively I would add the following personal obervations

BCM magazine well is flared more than on the DD
Fit and finish on both rifles is flawless
BCM PNT trigger is nicer than the DD OEM trigger
DD comes with rail covers and a vertical grip
I do not care for the DD OEM grip or buttstock
BCM QRF handguard is slightly wider than the DDM4 handguard.
BCM furniture fits me better than the DD furniture and looks better IMHO if that matters at all
I am a huge fan of the DD rail covers. Added a set to the BCM. YMMV.

I have not shot the BCM yet. The DD has been 100% reliable with all of the ammuntion I have fed it including Wolf Gold, PMC, Privi, Federal, Remington, Hornady, Black Hills, and some reloads from a shooting buddy. My DD also has a G2S trigger in it and I prefer it to the PNT in the BCM. I also have added a BCM Gunfighter CH to it.

For now the BCM has a Primary Arms Advanced RDS. I have several of the PA sites and they work fine for my use. It was previously on my DD. I will need to get another now. I have a PA 3x that might find its way onto the DD.

Either one of these two carbines is ready for anything you can throw at it and would provide a lifetime of service to their owners IMHO. Deciding which one to get is a coin toss IMHO. Almost. DD rifles cost more compared to BCM. I feel you get more for your $ with the BCM. Once you factor in the BCM gunfighter accessories included with the carbine it takes the lead in my opinion. Once you replace the stuff you don't like on the DD like I did with mine the cost difference is even greater.

Winner - BCM

I still love my DD but if I had to do it all over again I would have gotten the BCM, especially because of the QRF handguard that came with this model.

Stay safe. ;)

Side by Side Specificaions *taken from each manufacturers website
https://shop.bravocompanymfg.com/BCM-RECCE-16-Carbine-AR15-QRF-p/bcm-carbine-750-140.htm
https://danieldefense.com/firearms/caliber/5-56x45mm/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5.html

Specification
BCM Recce-16
DD M4V5

Part #
BCM-CARBINE-750-140
02-123-16029-047

Caliber
5.56 x 45mm NATO
5.56 x 45mm NATO

Gas System
Mid Length
Mid Length

Barrel
16" 1-7 Chrome Lined, Govt Profile, M4 Feed ramps, 11595E Certified Steel
16" 1-7 Chrome Lined, Govt Profile, M4 Feed ramps, Cold Hammer forged

Handguard
BCM QRF 12, 6061-T6 Aluminum Alloy,Hard Coat Anodized, Type III, Class 2
DDM4 12.0, 6061-T6 Aluminum Alloy,Hard Coat Anodized, Type III

Weight
6.5 lbs unloaded no optic
6.44 lbs unloaded no optic

Length
32 1/2" - 35 1/2"
32 1/4” – 35 7/8”

Upper
7075-T6, Hardcoat Anodized per MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2
7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized

Lower
7075-T6, Hardcoat Anodized per MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2, with flared magazine well
7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized, with flared magazine well

BCG
M16 Profile, Mil-Spec Carpenter No. 158® steel, HPT, MPI, Shot Peened, Chrome Lined
M16 Profile, Mil-Spec MP Tested, Chrome Lined, Properly Staked Gas Key

Buffer
H1
H

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4457/37524645532_7c8b16f0e3_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZaVBM7)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/ZaVBM7) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4467/23704018488_d08c50e704_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/C7DhRW)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/C7DhRW) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4504/37508151856_9a190c2ee2_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Z9t5Mo)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Z9t5Mo) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4505/37555983421_3daa63862e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZdGerx)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/ZdGerx) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr
QRF on the Left and DDM4 on the Right
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4500/36886396703_7ee96e73b0_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YcwqCX)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/YcwqCX) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr
DD Magazine Well
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4509/36845927624_dd78367bf7_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Y8X1Ad)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Y8X1Ad) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr
BCM Magazine Well
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4504/23703878098_048c6f7c09_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/C7Cz8q) (https://flic.kr/p/C7Cz8q) by Fuzzy Reticle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156312720@N03/), on Flickr

tylerw02

10-07-17, 17:45

You're declaring one rifle better without ever having shot it? That's messed up.

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Eurodriver

10-07-17, 17:48

You're declaring one rifle better without ever having shot it? That's messed up.

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Idk about you but I’m actually impressed he shot one of them at all.

Fuzzy-Reticle

10-07-17, 17:55

You're declaring one rifle better without ever having shot it? That's messed up.

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More like best value for the money between the two. Having shot and owned BCM uppers before I wouldn't expect this to perform any less than those examples.

tylerw02

10-07-17, 18:15

More like best value for the money between the two. Having shot and owned BCM uppers before I wouldn't expect this to perform any less than those examples.

Better value based on what? Just $$$?

You've shot other BCM uppers....that tells us nothing about this all new design. Are the slots in spec the entire length of the rail? How much deviation in POA/POI can we expect between the two when shooting irons off a bipod with a load vs a barricade vs a sling vs unsupported? Which one will cause more deviates more with a laser? What is the accuracy difference between the two?

If the BCM is has a huge deviation with a laser, is it really a better value than the DD of a guy has to buy a Geissele rail to replace the new QRF?

You've nor really reviewed anything here, you've not used them. You've just regurgitated specs and talking points without actually putting the gear through its paces.

I'm convinced, you'll be a YouTube hit.

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tylerw02

10-07-17, 18:16

Idk about you but I’m actually impressed he shot one of them at all.

He's going to be a star.

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sig1473

10-07-17, 18:21

You state there is a weight difference in buffers provided with both rifles. Last time I checked a H1 is the same thing as a H. Am I missing something??

17K

10-07-17, 21:17

I'd take the DD over that BCM. The DD handguard is tougher and the barrel is more accurate if those two guns are typical of each. Plus too many BCMs have trouble with Gen M3 Pmags.

stevenravenscroft

10-07-17, 22:05

Yea maybe theres a problem with Gen M3 Pmags that the BCM pics up on

Hank6046

10-07-17, 22:40

Thanks for the side by side comparison, I own a DDV5 and have thought about purchasing a complete free-float 16" middy upper from BCM, but because of the similarities never did. Love my BCM (20" A4 Clone) but when its Ford vs Chevy, or whatever brands you choose, it's nice to know that for the most part, they are built to get the job done.

jwfuhrman

10-08-17, 17:07

_Stormin_

10-08-17, 17:37

Not being an ass, this is literally the first I've heard of the problem between BCM rifles and Gen3 Pmags
News to me as well. I have dozens of Gen3 PMags and several BCM guns. Years without any issues... I guess that jwfuhrman and I are the lucky ones unhindered by this common issue.

Feline

10-08-17, 17:44

I'd take the DD over that BCM. The DD handguard is tougher and the barrel is more accurate if those two guns are typical of each. Plus too many BCMs have trouble with Gen M3 Pmags.

The newer (read 2016+) BCM lowers seem to be redesigned to better accept M3 mags. WTBS, USGI mags with enhanced followers are hard to beat, and will outlast a polymer mag unless needlessly abused.

17K

10-08-17, 18:31

really? in the 13,000 plus rounds I've put thru just one BCM Recce-14 in the last 3 years, all but about 400 off them have been thru Gen 3 PMags(and thats only because I JUST switched to using BCM Steel USGI mags just because I want too). The round count is an estimate based off of 3gun, 5 Haley Strategic Carbine courses, 1 Costa Carbine course, 5 carbine courses I've put on and God knows how many rounds of just range time and I've never had a single issue with the 50 Gen 3 Pmags that I own. I've broken more PMags(feed lips cracking) than I have had magazine related firearms issues.

Not being an ass, this is literally the first I've heard of the problem between BCM rifles and Gen3 Pmags

Actually you are being an ass. Gen M3 Pmags and BCM lowers have had a well documented history since 2012. I personally had two BCM lowers that would not accept a Gen M3 Pmag. BCM's public response was that the front of the trigger guard area was not well defined in the specs they used for lowers and they didn't consider incompatibility with the Gen M3 a problem. LMT, Colt, and most other lowers, and apparently every lower the USMC has somehow got made in a way that lets them work with Gen M3s.

17K

10-08-17, 18:34

The newer (read 2016+) BCM lowers seem to be redesigned to better accept M3 mags. WTBS, USGI mags with enhanced followers are hard to beat, and will outlast a polymer mag unless needlessly abused.

That's good to know as I homeless BCM upper and don't own any mags that aren't Gen M3s.

tylerw02

10-08-17, 18:36

I have an older BCM with the issue. It's just not my go-to rifle once the M3s came out.

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Feline

10-08-17, 18:39

I have an older BCM with the issue. It's just not my go-to rifle once the M3s came out.

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Of course, BCM never fully acknowledged the problem as the lowers did accept USGI mags, but it's indefensible to make a lower that does not accept the #1 polymer mag.

tylerw02

10-08-17, 19:13

Well at the time, I believe gen 2 PMags were out and they did work fine with those. It wasn't until Gen 3 came out that it was an issue.

I had bought five lowers from a reputable company just before Gen 2 Pmags came out and they wouldn't work either. Kind of sucked that my main mags wouldn't work in those blasters. They all got replaced eventually.

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sig1473

10-08-17, 19:21

I have Gen3 mags that won't drop free from my KAC SR-15 Mod1. The issue could have been early Gen3 mags.

SeriousStudent

10-08-17, 19:34

Discuss things without personal attacks. This behavior is dead wrong in General Discussion, and completely unacceptable in a technical sub forum.

People are going to go away until they obey forum rules.

Feline

10-08-17, 19:43