shawn c
10-08-08, 13:08
Dave Harrington Integrated Carbine/Pistol 09/23-25/2008 AAR
I hosted Super Dave Harrington at Folletts, IA ( outside of Davenport/QuadCities area) for an Integrated Carbine/Pistol Class. The class was comprised of police officers, who I had personal knowledge of their abilities, at the local, county and state levels and two civilians. This was by design as the information that I had in regards how Dave runs his classes told me that it would be a difficult time for everyone if those without prior training and known skill sets were allowed to participate.
This was the first class that I have personally hosted and it was challenging to say the least. Dave requires that hosts make all of the logistical arrangements for the class, except for ammo ( which was great given the skyrocketing cost of ammo! ) I arranged for dinner at my house on the night before the first day to allow people to meet each other and meet Dave. The range was isolated so I arranged to have dinner at the range on both Tues and Wed night which I believe was a great help in keeping everyone on track and allowed for people to actually have a break instead of running around looking for food. The only advice I can give in regards to hosting is to communicate with the instructor beforehand what his needs may be and run everything that you plan on doing through him. From type and number of targets to medical emergency plan, instructor’s needs, range layout and type to what’s covered during the class, etc. It will save you a lot of last minute running around and headache. Be flexible and available to the instructor. Try to delegate to trusted people that will be in the class. It’s difficult to liaison with property owners, arrange meals, take photos and video and actually try to participate and get something out of the class without help. Whenever I asked for help from the guys they stepped right up and did what they could. Another reason why I went with people who I knew.
We had a great group of people for the class. A comment was made by one of the non-cop people about the always popular cop and doughnut joke, before training began on TD1, which I think rubbed some of the guys the wrong way as they didn’t know him or where he was coming from. He made amends with his peace offering of cheese and sausage sticks ( what do you expect, he’s from Wisconsin) and o-ring extractor kits, which was appreciated by everyone. Over the long days of training no blood was spilled and everyone seemed to be in good spirits which made the class that much more enjoyable.
Dave has a different teaching style that is unique only to him. It comes from his background and experience. As for his experience and capability, there is plenty of information available on the errornet but all I can say is that you would not want to wake-up to Dave and a team made-up of likeminded and similarly capable individuals assaulting your house in the middle of the night! As long as you kept an open mind and remembered where he was coming from, you had a lot easier time understanding what it was he was trying to accomplish. And that is, to get you to self diagnose what your current ability level is, understand where you want it to be, then figure it out on your own, how to get there. Dave, like no instructor I have ever taken a class from, is solely focused on getting you to perform. That’s it. It is a difficult task to come in and evaluate the current skill level of a group of people that you have never met before, then gear the training to accomplish improving that skill level. Without having the knowledge base and experience that Dave has, any instructor who chooses to do that, runs the risk of incorrectly assessing the group and individual ability level of the class. If that happens it can only go downhill from there. Dave looks for specific answers to the questions that he asks. He doesn’t want opinions, he wants answers. He stays away from subjective terms when describing technique such as using the word “fast.” He asks, what is fast? He explained that it means 10 different things to 10 different people. When he asks you to push your limits in regards to the time it takes to complete a drill from the time it took you to complete the prior drill, he didn’t use the word “faster.” This example really sums up Dave’s teaching style which was consistent throughout the class. You could see how, without hearing direct, specific instructions from him, this would throw quite a few people for a loop the first day. Myself included. A couple of people said that they were doubtful they would return for the rest of the class. They did return and were satisfied that they took several things from the class that they will be using even if they still didn’t agree with Dave’s teaching style. That’s what I liked best about this particular group of people; no one got bent over a difference of opinion like I have seen in several other classes. It also seems that after a class with a particular instructor there are those that adopt the instructor’s mannerisms and regard the information as their new found dogma. I didn’t see any of this as the guys in this class was very analytical and I’m sure they will put this new found information to the test before they adopt it as SOP.
Dave is also a genuinely good guy. I was nervous about dealing with the business aspect of hosting as I didn’t want to offend Dave or end up in a pissing match over some trivial matter. Dave put all of this to rest and it was really easy to work with him. He didn’t sweat the small stuff that always invariably comes up. When he is on the ground he makes himself available during the entire 72 hour period that you contract with him as well as the day before and after. Because of this we were able to capitalize on 42 hours of training over 3 days.
Equipment – Various nylon chest rigs and belt rigs. I believe everyone ran soft body armor and some of us ran with plates also. All long guns were some variation of the AR system. 10”, 14.5”, 16” and an 18” barrels, semi and full, and all guns had some type of CCO with BUIS. Pistols ranged from SW M&P, to Glocks and 1911s. There were very few issues with guns or equipment as is typically par for the course with experienced individuals. I’m sure some minor tweaking will be taking place which is a never-ending task. One fact is that Wolf doesn’t run on full auto out of a 10 inch AR. Decent flashlights were used for the night portions and a few NODS and a DBAL were used. The DBAL is really some Jedi Council type of gear and is pretty cool.
TD1 – Dave started out with a safety brief. It wasn’t so much a traditional safety brief as it was a lecture on mindset and what it is you are actually trying to accomplish. How to work safely in your environment, manipulating your weapon system to stay in the fight while not losing sight on accomplishing your mission. Keep your weapons at a constant state of readiness at all times. You work in a 360 degree world so there is no “designated safe area” to load and reload your weapon systems. Dave showed us how to do it safely right where we stood, surrounded by teammates. You flag someone with your muzzle, Dave will catch it and you have just become a teaching point for the whole class. Dave preaches having positive control of your weapon at all times. What this means is being in a position to deliver accurate, aimed fire at any given time. This is a departure from traditional training and something that the majority of us were not used to but we managed. Retrieving magazines on the deck and breaking tunnel vision to scan for additional threats was shown and was presented in a totally different way than I had ever seen before. All that I can say is that the technique came directly from Dave’s operational experience.
We started with the option of running without body armor. I opted for this as I knew what was in store for me over the following two days with running plates. We did walk off drills with the pistol at various distances to about 150 yards. Dave demoed every drill and was running a set of prototype sights of his design which he let us try. The concept seemed sound but I would need quite a bit of time with them before I would make the change, but would be willing to give them a try. Dave seemed to drive them pretty good. Dave is a solid shooter which gives credibility to his techniques and why he teaches them. The reason being is because they work. We shot various drills after a lengthy lecture from Dave. It was unclear at times where Dave was going with some of the information, but the points he was making became clear on TD3. Dave has been doing this for awhile and everything that he says or does is for a reason even if we didn’t understand what he was saying at the time. Dave really does cover the gray area of fighting with firearms as it relates to individual performance and what he teaches is unlike anything that any of us had been exposed to before. Dave was giving me exactly what I had been searching for even if I didn’t realize it yet. We began doing dynamic movement drills from 25 yards and in and we worked in close contact with each other. This pretty much took us up until about 1000 hours.
A local news crew came out and put together a story on Dave and the class. The story was run at 2200 hours on TV. Dave was accommodating of this and the photojournalist did us a solid and edited a very positive story. It is a good thing to have a positive relationship with the local media especially in law enforcement.
We broke for chow after the news crew left, and then it was back to work. Dave challenged us with shooting from different positions, both weapon and support side hands only. I’m not going to get into the specifics of what Dave teaches as it is not appropriate for an AAR. All I can say is that Dave will push you out of your comfort zone as it relates to your current skill level and will show you the limits of your chosen gear and equipment. We pushed hard till 1700 hours and broke for chow. After chow we continued to work with our pistols until dusk and then Dave showed us some low light techniques and then we segued into no light techniques. Dave made us rethink our approach to how we work in these conditions. We secured at 2200 hours. A couple of the guys stayed at my place and after a very short meeting of the minds ( what was left of it ) and a Jack and Coke, ( thanks Romper!! ) I hit the rack very exhausted.
TD2 started promptly at 0800 hours. We went directly to work with carbines and started with another walk-off drill out to the limits of the range which was apprx 180 yds. We worked in close quarters with everyone on the line. One aspect that Dave covered that we haven’t received a lot of training in is open field drills. Being from an urban law enforcement background these types of drills were eye opening and helped to add another dimension to how we work. Dave took it a step further and covered how these drills apply to team movement in built-up areas and safely crossing open areas. We worked on this until lunch. After lunch we continued to work on close quarter drills incorporating movement from 25 yards on in. You were expected to manage both your primary and secondary weapon. systems at all times, while on the move and in close proximity to others. Dave lived and breathed this entire class and pointed out those circumstances when someone flagged somebody else with their muzzle. At this distance you were expected to immediately transition to your secondary in any case that caused your primary to go down. Dave taught to manipulate your firearms using your weapon hand unless you were unable to use your weapon hand. There were several in the class who were well versed in making a bi-lateral transition when shooting from the support side. No one complained and tried it the way Dave was teaching it, hoping to pick-up some different skills. Dave is all about efficiency of motion. He offered several ways to pare down time on specific manipulations. We broke for lunch. My wife and son came out to help with dinner. Dave showed how committed he is to what he does and worked with my son during the dinner break. After dinner we worked on low light and no light drills. We shot on a steel silhouette a distance. We saw firsthand that some flashlights were better than others at distance and also cutting through gun smoke. Some of us shot duty ammunition to see what flash signature it had. Dave gave his recommendations on rifle ammunition and why and I think that you may find it surprising.
On a side note, there was an ND at night. It happened as we were jamming mags on a break and happened about 10 feet away from where I was standing. There was dead silence for about 5 seconds ( enough time for me to get my shorts cleaned out!) then Dave asked first if everyone was okay then who did it. Dave gave a short lecture earlier in the day about ND’s, how inevitable they are and how to handle it when it does happen. Dave followed the example that he gave earlier in the day. After a heart to heart with the perpetrator, Dave asked the entire class if they felt safe enough for the dude to continue. Everyone said they were ok with him continuing. Dave left no doubt in anyone’s mind that if one person had a problem with it the dude would have been bounced from the rest of the class. To the guy’s credit, he did control the muzzle and averted a potential tragedy. This also made us a little more aware of the 4 rules of firearms safety, why they are in place and why it’s important to follow them at all times so it was a learning experience that everyone could take something from. The ND occurred when Wolf ammo became glued to the chamber wall after sitting in a hot chamber for awhile. The gun handler came off the line, in complete darkness, and pulled the charging handle several times, thinking he had cleared the chamber. The extractor had overridden the extractor rim and the round remained. The guy did not perform a physical inspection of the chamber as the conditions required, and pointed the weapon in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to release the sear. We secured at 2200 hours and left for the comfort of our racks which was definitely calling my name.
TD3 started with more integrated pistol and carbine drills. The pace moved pretty quickly throughout the day as we worked on what we had learned so far. We broke for lunch. After lunch Dave gave us the option of working on our newly acquired skills. As I was already mentally and physically exhausted I choose to shoot some of the other guys equipment. I have shot suppressors before but never a Surefire offering. The guy running it did not shoot it throughout the class because apparently it is difficult to keep clean. I was amazed at the return to zero when removing and putting the suppressor back on. The noise reduction was on par with what I have shot in the past. I also had an opportunity to shoot a 10 1/2in AR. I noticed a slight increase in maneuverability and weight reduction with the shorter barrel. Looks like I will have to gear-up for a new fight with my administration to get suppressors and short barrels.
We had a great crew that had solid skills. This was demonstrated at the end of the day when it came time for brass call. Everyone pitched-in without whining and we were able to get it cleaned up rather quickly. Dave didn’t have the certificates with him but made it a point to shake everyone’s hand. After a few rounds of photos the class was finished to allow those that had some travelling to do to get back home.
My family and I had dinner with Dave that night as he was leaving the next day. It was a good opportunity to talk about things other than training and gave us a chance to unwind after 3 grueling days of training.
This was one of the better classes that I have taken. It has definitely provided me with the tools to get to the next level in regards to training. I look differently at how I approach training not only for myself but for those I am entrusted to teach. Dave will push you both mentally and physically to get you to perform better. I highly recommend taking a class from Dave as you will not regret it. The only caveat is that you should probably have a good idea on how to keep your guns running and be able to hit what you’re aiming at in stressful conditions. If you are not capable of this, you will not only be unable to keep up but you will hold the class back. If you are looking to challenge yourself, give Dave a call.
Shawn Claussen
Dave can be reached at martialgun@aol.com
1440
1439
1441
1442
1443
I hosted Super Dave Harrington at Folletts, IA ( outside of Davenport/QuadCities area) for an Integrated Carbine/Pistol Class. The class was comprised of police officers, who I had personal knowledge of their abilities, at the local, county and state levels and two civilians. This was by design as the information that I had in regards how Dave runs his classes told me that it would be a difficult time for everyone if those without prior training and known skill sets were allowed to participate.
This was the first class that I have personally hosted and it was challenging to say the least. Dave requires that hosts make all of the logistical arrangements for the class, except for ammo ( which was great given the skyrocketing cost of ammo! ) I arranged for dinner at my house on the night before the first day to allow people to meet each other and meet Dave. The range was isolated so I arranged to have dinner at the range on both Tues and Wed night which I believe was a great help in keeping everyone on track and allowed for people to actually have a break instead of running around looking for food. The only advice I can give in regards to hosting is to communicate with the instructor beforehand what his needs may be and run everything that you plan on doing through him. From type and number of targets to medical emergency plan, instructor’s needs, range layout and type to what’s covered during the class, etc. It will save you a lot of last minute running around and headache. Be flexible and available to the instructor. Try to delegate to trusted people that will be in the class. It’s difficult to liaison with property owners, arrange meals, take photos and video and actually try to participate and get something out of the class without help. Whenever I asked for help from the guys they stepped right up and did what they could. Another reason why I went with people who I knew.
We had a great group of people for the class. A comment was made by one of the non-cop people about the always popular cop and doughnut joke, before training began on TD1, which I think rubbed some of the guys the wrong way as they didn’t know him or where he was coming from. He made amends with his peace offering of cheese and sausage sticks ( what do you expect, he’s from Wisconsin) and o-ring extractor kits, which was appreciated by everyone. Over the long days of training no blood was spilled and everyone seemed to be in good spirits which made the class that much more enjoyable.
Dave has a different teaching style that is unique only to him. It comes from his background and experience. As for his experience and capability, there is plenty of information available on the errornet but all I can say is that you would not want to wake-up to Dave and a team made-up of likeminded and similarly capable individuals assaulting your house in the middle of the night! As long as you kept an open mind and remembered where he was coming from, you had a lot easier time understanding what it was he was trying to accomplish. And that is, to get you to self diagnose what your current ability level is, understand where you want it to be, then figure it out on your own, how to get there. Dave, like no instructor I have ever taken a class from, is solely focused on getting you to perform. That’s it. It is a difficult task to come in and evaluate the current skill level of a group of people that you have never met before, then gear the training to accomplish improving that skill level. Without having the knowledge base and experience that Dave has, any instructor who chooses to do that, runs the risk of incorrectly assessing the group and individual ability level of the class. If that happens it can only go downhill from there. Dave looks for specific answers to the questions that he asks. He doesn’t want opinions, he wants answers. He stays away from subjective terms when describing technique such as using the word “fast.” He asks, what is fast? He explained that it means 10 different things to 10 different people. When he asks you to push your limits in regards to the time it takes to complete a drill from the time it took you to complete the prior drill, he didn’t use the word “faster.” This example really sums up Dave’s teaching style which was consistent throughout the class. You could see how, without hearing direct, specific instructions from him, this would throw quite a few people for a loop the first day. Myself included. A couple of people said that they were doubtful they would return for the rest of the class. They did return and were satisfied that they took several things from the class that they will be using even if they still didn’t agree with Dave’s teaching style. That’s what I liked best about this particular group of people; no one got bent over a difference of opinion like I have seen in several other classes. It also seems that after a class with a particular instructor there are those that adopt the instructor’s mannerisms and regard the information as their new found dogma. I didn’t see any of this as the guys in this class was very analytical and I’m sure they will put this new found information to the test before they adopt it as SOP.
Dave is also a genuinely good guy. I was nervous about dealing with the business aspect of hosting as I didn’t want to offend Dave or end up in a pissing match over some trivial matter. Dave put all of this to rest and it was really easy to work with him. He didn’t sweat the small stuff that always invariably comes up. When he is on the ground he makes himself available during the entire 72 hour period that you contract with him as well as the day before and after. Because of this we were able to capitalize on 42 hours of training over 3 days.
Equipment – Various nylon chest rigs and belt rigs. I believe everyone ran soft body armor and some of us ran with plates also. All long guns were some variation of the AR system. 10”, 14.5”, 16” and an 18” barrels, semi and full, and all guns had some type of CCO with BUIS. Pistols ranged from SW M&P, to Glocks and 1911s. There were very few issues with guns or equipment as is typically par for the course with experienced individuals. I’m sure some minor tweaking will be taking place which is a never-ending task. One fact is that Wolf doesn’t run on full auto out of a 10 inch AR. Decent flashlights were used for the night portions and a few NODS and a DBAL were used. The DBAL is really some Jedi Council type of gear and is pretty cool.
TD1 – Dave started out with a safety brief. It wasn’t so much a traditional safety brief as it was a lecture on mindset and what it is you are actually trying to accomplish. How to work safely in your environment, manipulating your weapon system to stay in the fight while not losing sight on accomplishing your mission. Keep your weapons at a constant state of readiness at all times. You work in a 360 degree world so there is no “designated safe area” to load and reload your weapon systems. Dave showed us how to do it safely right where we stood, surrounded by teammates. You flag someone with your muzzle, Dave will catch it and you have just become a teaching point for the whole class. Dave preaches having positive control of your weapon at all times. What this means is being in a position to deliver accurate, aimed fire at any given time. This is a departure from traditional training and something that the majority of us were not used to but we managed. Retrieving magazines on the deck and breaking tunnel vision to scan for additional threats was shown and was presented in a totally different way than I had ever seen before. All that I can say is that the technique came directly from Dave’s operational experience.
We started with the option of running without body armor. I opted for this as I knew what was in store for me over the following two days with running plates. We did walk off drills with the pistol at various distances to about 150 yards. Dave demoed every drill and was running a set of prototype sights of his design which he let us try. The concept seemed sound but I would need quite a bit of time with them before I would make the change, but would be willing to give them a try. Dave seemed to drive them pretty good. Dave is a solid shooter which gives credibility to his techniques and why he teaches them. The reason being is because they work. We shot various drills after a lengthy lecture from Dave. It was unclear at times where Dave was going with some of the information, but the points he was making became clear on TD3. Dave has been doing this for awhile and everything that he says or does is for a reason even if we didn’t understand what he was saying at the time. Dave really does cover the gray area of fighting with firearms as it relates to individual performance and what he teaches is unlike anything that any of us had been exposed to before. Dave was giving me exactly what I had been searching for even if I didn’t realize it yet. We began doing dynamic movement drills from 25 yards and in and we worked in close contact with each other. This pretty much took us up until about 1000 hours.
A local news crew came out and put together a story on Dave and the class. The story was run at 2200 hours on TV. Dave was accommodating of this and the photojournalist did us a solid and edited a very positive story. It is a good thing to have a positive relationship with the local media especially in law enforcement.
We broke for chow after the news crew left, and then it was back to work. Dave challenged us with shooting from different positions, both weapon and support side hands only. I’m not going to get into the specifics of what Dave teaches as it is not appropriate for an AAR. All I can say is that Dave will push you out of your comfort zone as it relates to your current skill level and will show you the limits of your chosen gear and equipment. We pushed hard till 1700 hours and broke for chow. After chow we continued to work with our pistols until dusk and then Dave showed us some low light techniques and then we segued into no light techniques. Dave made us rethink our approach to how we work in these conditions. We secured at 2200 hours. A couple of the guys stayed at my place and after a very short meeting of the minds ( what was left of it ) and a Jack and Coke, ( thanks Romper!! ) I hit the rack very exhausted.
TD2 started promptly at 0800 hours. We went directly to work with carbines and started with another walk-off drill out to the limits of the range which was apprx 180 yds. We worked in close quarters with everyone on the line. One aspect that Dave covered that we haven’t received a lot of training in is open field drills. Being from an urban law enforcement background these types of drills were eye opening and helped to add another dimension to how we work. Dave took it a step further and covered how these drills apply to team movement in built-up areas and safely crossing open areas. We worked on this until lunch. After lunch we continued to work on close quarter drills incorporating movement from 25 yards on in. You were expected to manage both your primary and secondary weapon. systems at all times, while on the move and in close proximity to others. Dave lived and breathed this entire class and pointed out those circumstances when someone flagged somebody else with their muzzle. At this distance you were expected to immediately transition to your secondary in any case that caused your primary to go down. Dave taught to manipulate your firearms using your weapon hand unless you were unable to use your weapon hand. There were several in the class who were well versed in making a bi-lateral transition when shooting from the support side. No one complained and tried it the way Dave was teaching it, hoping to pick-up some different skills. Dave is all about efficiency of motion. He offered several ways to pare down time on specific manipulations. We broke for lunch. My wife and son came out to help with dinner. Dave showed how committed he is to what he does and worked with my son during the dinner break. After dinner we worked on low light and no light drills. We shot on a steel silhouette a distance. We saw firsthand that some flashlights were better than others at distance and also cutting through gun smoke. Some of us shot duty ammunition to see what flash signature it had. Dave gave his recommendations on rifle ammunition and why and I think that you may find it surprising.
On a side note, there was an ND at night. It happened as we were jamming mags on a break and happened about 10 feet away from where I was standing. There was dead silence for about 5 seconds ( enough time for me to get my shorts cleaned out!) then Dave asked first if everyone was okay then who did it. Dave gave a short lecture earlier in the day about ND’s, how inevitable they are and how to handle it when it does happen. Dave followed the example that he gave earlier in the day. After a heart to heart with the perpetrator, Dave asked the entire class if they felt safe enough for the dude to continue. Everyone said they were ok with him continuing. Dave left no doubt in anyone’s mind that if one person had a problem with it the dude would have been bounced from the rest of the class. To the guy’s credit, he did control the muzzle and averted a potential tragedy. This also made us a little more aware of the 4 rules of firearms safety, why they are in place and why it’s important to follow them at all times so it was a learning experience that everyone could take something from. The ND occurred when Wolf ammo became glued to the chamber wall after sitting in a hot chamber for awhile. The gun handler came off the line, in complete darkness, and pulled the charging handle several times, thinking he had cleared the chamber. The extractor had overridden the extractor rim and the round remained. The guy did not perform a physical inspection of the chamber as the conditions required, and pointed the weapon in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to release the sear. We secured at 2200 hours and left for the comfort of our racks which was definitely calling my name.
TD3 started with more integrated pistol and carbine drills. The pace moved pretty quickly throughout the day as we worked on what we had learned so far. We broke for lunch. After lunch Dave gave us the option of working on our newly acquired skills. As I was already mentally and physically exhausted I choose to shoot some of the other guys equipment. I have shot suppressors before but never a Surefire offering. The guy running it did not shoot it throughout the class because apparently it is difficult to keep clean. I was amazed at the return to zero when removing and putting the suppressor back on. The noise reduction was on par with what I have shot in the past. I also had an opportunity to shoot a 10 1/2in AR. I noticed a slight increase in maneuverability and weight reduction with the shorter barrel. Looks like I will have to gear-up for a new fight with my administration to get suppressors and short barrels.
We had a great crew that had solid skills. This was demonstrated at the end of the day when it came time for brass call. Everyone pitched-in without whining and we were able to get it cleaned up rather quickly. Dave didn’t have the certificates with him but made it a point to shake everyone’s hand. After a few rounds of photos the class was finished to allow those that had some travelling to do to get back home.
My family and I had dinner with Dave that night as he was leaving the next day. It was a good opportunity to talk about things other than training and gave us a chance to unwind after 3 grueling days of training.
This was one of the better classes that I have taken. It has definitely provided me with the tools to get to the next level in regards to training. I look differently at how I approach training not only for myself but for those I am entrusted to teach. Dave will push you both mentally and physically to get you to perform better. I highly recommend taking a class from Dave as you will not regret it. The only caveat is that you should probably have a good idea on how to keep your guns running and be able to hit what you’re aiming at in stressful conditions. If you are not capable of this, you will not only be unable to keep up but you will hold the class back. If you are looking to challenge yourself, give Dave a call.
Shawn Claussen
Dave can be reached at martialgun@aol.com
1440
1439
1441
1442
1443