View Full Version : Mindset; less guns, less fat, more time in the gym.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-13-17, 19:40
A forewarning to the easily butthurt, don’t read this. The literary work below isn’t meant to be condescending, degrading or insulting, it’s simply an honest observation with some general ideas of how to make oneself harder to kill, and therefore more likely to survive. If you find my opinions insulting, perhaps you should ask yourself why.
I’ve been involved in firearms and training most of my adult life and also worked at a large retail FFL for three years, which, somewhat unfortunately, got me intimately familiar with “the industry” and “gun culture.” I am now a career Firefighter at a large metropolitan fire department, which gives me an enormous amount of exposure to the general public, I also work part time at a local strength and conditioning gym.
First, I understand this is America and you can do whatever the hell you want. Nobody can force you to go to the gym, nobody can force you to not eat your self into a sweet, delicious sugar induced diabetic coma. However, if you’re going to prepare, then prepare the best you can. Most people are lying to them selves when they say they’re prepared. The vast majority of people I encounter on the street are at best, weeks away from death on any given day, much less in a natural disaster, and this applies to many gun owners.
In reality most people are preparing for some sort of civil unrest or self defense situation not because they’re serious about self defense, but rather because it’s fun, it’s a hobby for them. They may not realize this, but it’s the case, and I understand; guns are fun, shooting is fun, acquiring gear is fun.
Say what you want to make your self feel good but the reality is, most gun owners lack appropriate mindset, discipline and are in poor physical condition. If you’re a “training junky” and you’re not incorporating physical fitness into your routine, your doing it wrong. And I’m not talking about getting on the recumbent bike twice a week and cutting down on the McDonalds. I’m talking a serious program.
Gun owners spend hours upon hours upon hours researching gear, and tens of thousands of dollars buying firearms and equipment, most of which is unnecessary; they then go on to boast about how “prepared” they are for a set of potential situations that ultimately range from low to nearly non existent in their probability of actually happening. Yet they neglect their own health.
Now I’m all for preparing for these low probability situations. Why? Because even though they are low probability scenarios they have a very high potential penalty for failure (death). Therefore, we should prepare our selves the best we can.
A few people go a step further than just acquiring cool gear and theoretical knowledge. These few people actually get out on the range and run what they brung, fewer still actually follow some sort of regimented training program.
How many, though, actually spend any amount of time, effort and money on their own health? If I take a quick look around the local range on any given day, the local gun shop or even the monthly USPSA or CFDCC match, the answer is not too many.
At the end of the day, most people are infinitely more likely to die from chronic diseases that arise from a sloppy lifestyle than from having under armed them selves for the next civil war, Katrina or even a common street robbery, home invasion or car jacking. Most people are infinitely more likely to have their life seriously impacted or ended by Diabetes, heart disease and obesity.
What good is your $50,000 stash of firearms and ammunition if you can’t actually move with it? What value is all that tactical name brand awesomeness if you die at 50 from heart disease. How are you supposed to survive long term if you’re an insulin dependent diabetic?
How much money and time is spent on celebrity instructor taught classes? You make it to the range every week? That’s awesome. How many hours have you spent at the gym? What’s your diet look like? And I’m not just talking fat people, just because you don’t look like Rosie O’ Donnell doesn’t mean you aren’t unhealthy.
Take a step back and think for a second. Ask your self, am I really actually prepared? Do I have the stamina and conditioning to run a mile in my gear all out? What if I got into a physical confrontation? Can I physically over power someone?
The effects of physical fitness don’t just stop at being more desirable to look at, able to run faster and lift more. Being fit makes you harder to kill in every way. You’re less likely to develop chronic diseases, your joints will be in better shape, you’re less likely to develop heart disease, the list goes on and on.
So how are you preparing your self physically to survive? If you’re not you have no excuse, none. I work a full time job, run a business, work a part time job and go to school full time. I’ve not been without injury either. If I can do it anyone can.
If you’re serious about being prepared I strongly encourage you to begin a serious physical fitness regimen, especially so if you’re a first responder. It doesn’t matter how old you are or what your current life situation is, it’s never too late to start.
If you have the money for multiple rifles and pistols, quality optics, suppressors, SBR’s and the tax stamps that accompany them, the training courses, the ammunition and time to shoot, then you have the money and time to get in the gym.
Here’s some straight forward suggestions:
- Quit eating like shit, there’s no excuse. Eat real food. Want to avoid health problems? Cut out the processed stuff. Figure out what your body likes. Just becasue I eat 300g of carbs a day doesn’t mean that’s the right diet for you, it also doesn’t mean “low carb” is good.
- Find and follow a real strength and conditioning program.
- Focus on functional movements. Back squat, dead lift, overhead press, bench press, pull-ups, bent over rows, kettle bell work, sand bangs etc.
- Follow a program with strength work as the foundation.
- Push a sled at least 2-3 times a week.
- Machines are the work of of Satan, avoid them like the plague. Why? Because they are they plague... the plague of the fitness industry.
- Run, running is good. If you cant run, then walk, row, stationary bike etc, push the sled more.
I will end with what I feel (in my humble opinion) are some very basic minimum standards people should be able to meet:
- Back Squat your own body weight for 10 reps.
- Deadlift 1.5x your body weight for 10 reps.
- Overhead Press your body weight
- Bench Press your body weight for 10 reps.
- 10 pull-ups (unbroken)
- 50 push-ups (unbroken)
- 50 Kettlebell Swings w/ 53lb kettlebell (unbroken)
- Run 1 mile in street clothes in 7:00 without going into SVT.
- Row a 5k in under 20:00 without going into SVT.
- Be able to walk 10 miles with your “bug out bag” in your “bug out” gear.
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The M-m4c-GA resurrection is just going full tilt!
Rebellions are built on hope and change, we can believe in. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171014/3c1d71cb9670d667dbe76a4efc6ee37e.jpg
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Truth here.
If two unarmed men could successfully sodomize you then you got some serious soul searching to do. Especially if they are smiling while they trying
Good stuff.
I'd add getting some combatives or other "non-ballistic" self defense training. We can debate what style is most relevant, reality-based, or in use by which nation's armed forces, but in the end, any reputable system taught by a competent instructor is better than no training.
1. Combatives is, imho, a good part of a fitness regimen, since most programs will have some sort of fitness component or you'll break a sweat by doing it.
2. I'd venture that you're just as likely, if not more likely, to be put in a situation that you won't be able to solve with a firearm, either due to constraints, restraints, or the dynamics of the situation.
grizzlyblake
10-13-17, 21:08
Last weekend I was volunteering at a charity 5k and ended up running it on a dare/peer pressure in cargo pants, polo shirt, sneakers, and carrying a G19 and spare mag AIWB. Pockets full of phones, keys, etc.
I ended up winning the men's 30-39 age bracket. I've never run any kind of race, but I usually run a mile on the treadmill as a warm up before lifting several times a week.
The point is, yes, always be prepared, and your body is your greatest weapon.
militarymoron
10-13-17, 21:20
Shooting's a hobby for me; but trying to stay healthy and exercising is part of my chosen lifestyle.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-13-17, 21:21
Good stuff.
I'd add getting some combatives or other "non-ballistic" self defense training. We can debate what style is most relevant, reality-based, or in use by which nation's armed forces, but in the end, any reputable system taught by a competent instructor is better than no training.
1. Combatives is, imho, a good part of a fitness regimen, since most programs will have some sort of fitness component or you'll break a sweat by doing it.
2. I'd venture that you're just as likely, if not more likely, to be put in a situation that you won't be able to solve with a firearm, either due to constraints, restraints, or the dynamics of the situation.
Absolutely. I agree on all points.
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Mr. Goodtimes
10-13-17, 21:24
Last weekend I was volunteering at a charity 5k and ended up running it on a dare/peer pressure in cargo pants, polo shirt, sneakers, and carrying a G19 and spare mag AIWB. Pockets full of phones, keys, etc.
I ended up winning the men's 30-39 age bracket. I've never run any kind of race, but I usually run a mile on the treadmill as a warm up before lifting several times a week.
The point is, yes, always be prepared, and your body is your greatest weapon.
Metal bro. Good work.
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Mr. Goodtimes
10-13-17, 21:25
Shooting's a hobby for me; but trying to stay healthy and exercising is part of my chosen lifestyle.
And you know what, the pay offs are endless. All of the older people I know of who are in excellent shape exercise. And when I saw excellent shape, I don’t mean fitness, I mean they’re sixty and haven’t had double knee replacements and aren’t on 17 different meds that all end in “lol.”
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Eurodriver
10-14-17, 07:49
Last weekend I was volunteering at a charity 5k and ended up running it on a dare/peer pressure in cargo pants, polo shirt, sneakers, and carrying a G19 and spare mag AIWB. Pockets full of phones, keys, etc.
I ended up winning the men's 30-39 age bracket. I've never run any kind of race, but I usually run a mile on the treadmill as a warm up before lifting several times a week.
The point is, yes, always be prepared, and your body is your greatest weapon.
That’s embarrassing.
Not for you, but for every male in that race between 30-39.
- Machines are the work of of Satan, avoid them like the plague. Why? Because they are they plague... the plague of the fitness industry.
This is the only thing I really disagree with in this post. It's an overly dogmatic statement, machine exercises can be a very useful addition to your training. However, I do agree that they should never be the cornerstones of your training.
I also think it's a bit odd to consider benching bodyweight and pressing bodyweight overhead a single strength standard, because pressing your bodyweight overhead is about ten times harder than benching it.
Other than that this post is really something that most people on gun forums really need to read.
Now I’m all for preparing for these low probability situations. Why? Because even though they are low probability scenarios they have a very high potential penalty for failure (death). Therefore, we should prepare our selves the best we can.
Solid intel. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think. From a probability standpoint, in the US, you're far more likely to save your own life or that of another if you're in shape to run from some event (natural or otherwise), drag or carry a person to safety, etc, you're not really "prepared" for shit if you can't. Anyone who is way out of shape, overweight, etc, but has major collection of stuff to be prepared, is not prepared for a damn thing really* which is a separate issue from the obvious health benefits and such.
* With (hopefully) obvious caveat for those with injuries, medical conditions, age, etc.
This is the only thing I really disagree with in this post. It's an overly dogmatic statement, machine exercises can be a very useful addition to your training. However, I do agree that they should never be the cornerstones of your training.
I think that's mostly being a wise ass. I don't agree with it either, and machines can have their place in a well rounded program, depending on goals and other variables. I agree totally that given the choice with say limited time, etc, choosing what he listed is better time spent for effort and outcomes, and people often gravitate to machines because they are easier to use, etc. Most people most of the time can and probably should skip the machines.
I also think it's a bit odd to consider benching bodyweight and pressing bodyweight overhead a single strength standard, because pressing your bodyweight overhead is about ten times harder than benching it.
I didn't catch that but I agree. Few can do a strict overhead press with their BW, that are in excellent shape and can easily BP their BW, probably multiple times easily. I saw a similar rec that said people should be able to do 10 strict push ups and 10 strict pulls ups, and that too is something not in line with typical strength metrics.
if you die at 50 from heart disease. How are you supposed to survive long term if you’re an insulin dependent diabetic?
Snip...
Just becasue I eat 300g of carbs a day doesn’t mean that’s the right diet for you, it also doesn’t mean “low carb” is good.
Just a data point for you young studs... The two statements above are heavily linked, and maybe not the way you think. (Apologies in advance for the long post)
Get into your mid-fifties and many of us find out that that the popular press and even American Heart Association and other dietician inputs, etcetera have largely been wrong.
I know you said "low carb may not be good" and there may be some truth to that. But we know for sure now that high carb is bad and it is a direct correlating factor to cardiac heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and is linked in with high blood pressure.
Multiple friends who followed the low-fat high-carb popular press and even to a certain extent medical advice in the 90s and 2000's are now hitting heart disease.
Genetics is still the number one factor on whether you'll produce plaque or not. But the second largest factor is excess blood sugar turning into triglycerides and such that create plaque.
So guess what, that excess blood sugar comes directly from eating more carbs than your body's immediate energy requirements. Any that your body doesn't use gets turned into fat and us impacts cholesterol and triglycerides.
You might as well be mainlining milkshakes and candy bars, it'll have the same effect.
I've got multiple doctors and also friends doctors saying that the popular press conventional wisdom, dieticians, and some of the advisory agencies are 15 years behind the medical research and five to ten years behind the current medical practice.
It's pretty simple:
- carbs create blood sugar. (Especially simple carbs)
- excess blood sugar to your body's current energy requirements drives cholesterol and triglyceride problems by putting fatty molecules into your bloodstream. This is where the raw materials for plaque come from. The idea that specific foods can be low cholesterol is silly and angers the cardiologist because that's not where chlorestoral that causes people's problems comes from.
- excess blood sugar is one of the few things that sticks to artery walls, and is corrosive, etching the walls and making them more likely to allow plaque to form
- long periods of excess blood sugar causes your body to respond less to the insulin you produce. This is type 2 diabetes. The problem compounds.
- high blood pressure also creates micro fissures in the artery walls, which also gives sugar and the plaque a toehold
Exercise can only change the equations above in the sense that you do use more of your blood sugar. But it's hard to exercise away the blood sugar and a lot of the high carb diets. Unless you are running marathons are similar you're probably not.
My cardiologists and other doctors are telling me that exercise does help obviously, but it is not going to override plaque generation if your carb / blood sugar is higher than what your body needs.
I have multiple friends, fellow cardiac rehab members, Etc who learned this the hard way.
So when I was in my thirties I thought just like you guys are talking. Once in my late 50s we find out, we were sold a bill of goods, and the same inaccurate sources are still spreading the same stuff.
My dad is killed religiously following the "heart healthy diet" even though it's one of the worst things he can do with his heart condition.
To be clear I'm not advocating super low carb ketosis. But a high carbs are the enemy. Look at your A1C every year starting in your thirties maybe before. Do the fasting blood sugar tests. I think we wait too late to start doing treadmill EKGs, I would start no later than 50 and personally glad I started at 45.
I'm not a big fan of taking medicine, but I have to. But what I found out is the majority of people who are in this business take statins proactively. Even if not clinically diagnosed with cardiac heart disease. Same for aspirin, and some of the anti platelet, though that does have some side effects (bruising, slow clotting)
One last thing, it's become popular to do cat scans or similar to try to clear yourself off whether you have plaque or not. Cardiologist hate that, because it's misleading. Those tests will only detect calcified plaque, they do not detect soft plaque which can be causing blockages. I know multiple people including myself that looked clean on those tests because it was not calcified.
Apologies if it sounds like I'm lecturing, that's not my intent. Just sharing learnings from someone in the mid fifties who thought just like you guys do when in my mid-thirties
The other thing that happens (time sucks) is that each decade later it gets harder and harder to exercise your way out of this stuff. Joints are having issues, etc. You find out that the free weights helped contribute to your joint problem. And you find that machines like ellipticals and Rowing are one of the few ways that you can get your cardio work in without aggravating your joints. I can work far harder and longer on a commercial / medical grade elliptical then I can on an arm and leg bicycle type ergometer, and even that is significantly more than what I can do on a treadmill.
So I wouldn't get too condescending about the machines, because your perspective on them will change.
This doesn't mean to ignore strength training, far from it. It just means that if you don't protect your joints and don't proactively deal with cardio stuff through exercise and diet, you may find that you're very fit in your 50s but with cardiac heart disease. And potentially permanent heart muscle damage, which is virtually impossible to recover from.
I'm fitter than I used to be, but still very overweight, and fighting my way back into fitness. What used to be trivial in my thirties to recover is very very hard in my 50s. Due to the things I discussed above.
I'm watching people in their seventies and eighties die of congestive heart failure who were fitter than I am in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. (Including my dad). There is a glideslope, and drugs can change the angle slightly but they don't change the glideslope to death. You die of pneumonia, congestive heart failure is what causes it, but the root cause is low heart function, usually due to undiagnosed cardiac heart disease or other similar conditions in their 40s and 50s, leading to heart muscle death.
Apologies for the long post, I just want you guys to learn from the experience of your elders :-)
Not a doctor, so find a good cardiologist and work with them. Proactively, if in your 40s. I will tell you that you need to do the annual blood sugar screenings and cholesterol screenings and pay attention to them. It's a loaded gun, with the safety off!
Should also mention, regular cardio exercise does help reduce high blood pressure. So that you can exercise your way into Improvement, and it does not take much to do so. My blood pressure can drop 20 points after 30 minutes of cardio, even when taken with an elevated heart rate. And will stay lower the rest of the day.
Stress, sleep, and other things factor in. Hard to do, but I'm shooting for 8 hours of sleep daily. And if I get less than 7 I try to take corrective action.
They are finding that sitting at a desk all day like many of us do / did and then exercising for 30 minutes hard is not potentially as good as shorter, regular physical movement throughout the day. In other words take short breaks and you don't have to work out, just move things.
My learning: desk work is the new smoking
I know you said "low carb may not be good" and there may be some truth to that.
No discussion on this topic is of value nor relevant without defining "low carb." A % of total cals? Total grams per day? Other? It's like "high protein" or "low fat" or "really strong" and so forth, of no value. I don't believe there's a sci/med def for it at this time and the ex phys researchers and such I know would respond "it depends."
No discussion on this topic is of value nor relevant without defining "low carb." A % of total cals? Total grams per day? Other? It's like "high protein" or "low fat" or "really strong" and so forth, of no value. I don't believe there's a sci/med def for it at this time and the ex phys researchers and such I know would respond "it depends."
Truedat. Carbs are only bad when when they are creating more blood sugar than your body needs. So A1C and fasting blood sugar becomes the proxy for that. And ketosis setting the extreme lower bound you want to stay above unless it is part of a carefully (medically) managed Diet
For inactive people, or those showing blood sugar issues, a reasonable range could be as low as 25 to 30 grams a day. Especially of obese, could be lower.
Fit and high muscle density? Probably higher.
Fit, active and doing marathons or other high calorie activities, you will need much more.
So for me, it's high enough to stay out of ketosis, but just slightly above. And low enough to keep the A1C numbers and fasting blood sugar in alignment.
Given I'm overweight, I'd like to try to target low enough carbs that I could run the ragged edge and slightly into ketosis during heavy exercise, but only then.
That's essentially what my cardiologists and friend's cardiologists are telling us.
But don't listen to me, find cardiologists, GPs and similar, who are in touch with the current research and developments.
Otherwise, you may find yourself in for a surprise in your 50s. Or maybe not, some people don't produce plaque others do it's kind of like plaque on teeth. That's the genetics Factor.
Truedat. Carbs are only bad when when they are creating more blood sugar than your body needs. So A1C and fasting blood sugar becomes the proxy for that. And ketosis setting the extreme lower bound you want to stay above unless it is part of a carefully (medically) managed Diet
For inactive people, or those showing blood sugar issues, a reasonable range could be as low as 25 to 30 grams a day. Especially of obese, could be lower.
Fit and high muscle density? Probably higher.
Fit, active and doing marathons or other high calorie activities, you will need much more.
So for me, it's high enough to stay out of ketosis, but just slightly above. And low enough to keep the A1C numbers and fasting blood sugar in alignment.
Given I'm overweight, I'd like to try to target low enough carbs that I could run the ragged edge and slightly into ketosis during heavy exercise, but only then.
That's essentially what my cardiologists and friend's cardiologists are telling us.
But don't listen to me, find cardiologists, GPs and similar, who are in touch with the current research and developments.
Otherwise, you may find yourself in for a surprise in your 50s. Or maybe not, some people don't produce plaque others do it's kind of like plaque on teeth. That's the genetics Factor.
That is my lane and AO, so I can assure you, I'm often the guy those people come to for answers to some Qs and I manage some docs fitness/health/HRT protocols now. Your other info above is solid enough, even if I might have a slightly different POV on the topic. If the approach you're taking is working for you and your goals, vis the proxy metrics you listed, etc, then drive on sir.
That is my lane and AO, so I can assure you, I'm often the guy those people come to for answers to some Qs and I manage some docs fitness/health/HRT protocols now. Your other info above is solid enough, even if I might have a slightly different POV on the topic. If the approach you're taking is working for you and your goals, vis the proxy metrics you listed, etc, then drive on sir.
That's the core issue, there are so many widely varying opinions, and even varying research that this issue is very muddy.
Especially if it gets to "what's the right value", people always want an analytic answer. When the reality is probably a behavioral answer, entangled with "don't eat more calories than your body can use or metabolize". I understand there are valid reasons for high calorie diets when doing significant strength training, Etc. But physics are physics, any calories you don't use get stored somewhere. Your behavior and chemistry dictates whether that's fat or something else.
There are huge debates on the impact of particular carbohydrates, and even I have come to learn that certain carbs are not a problem. Example: if it has a significant percentage of fiber relative to the carb, it's probably not going to hurt you. And may help in general.
I'll let you guys argue about whey and similar. Meat versus vegetable protein.
Some things are crystal clear and not currently in dispute:
- ignore blood sugar and cholesterol levels at your own risk. It's the largest correlating factor for cardiac heart disease
-the carb / blood sugar / fatty lipids /cholesterol / triglycerides / plaque cycle is not in dispute.
- the fact that very little cholesterol, triglycerides, or fat in the bloodstream comes from direct dietary fat intake is not in dispute. It's converted by the fatty lipid cycle. They know that xact chemical process and cells, is accepted as medical fact, with very strong research to support it. Not saying it's good to eat fat, just that the fat in your blood stream is not directly proportional to the fat that went in your mouth.
There are still big arguments on the impact (or not) saturated fat in the diet. Also some evidence starting to show that whatever the source, high fat levels in the blood, pancreas, or liver may contribute to insulin resistance. So may be bad for other reasons. All things in moderation.
The sole point for me wading in here is to make sure everyone is aware that you could do all the things the original poster commented on and still end up with type 2 diabetes, cardiac heart disease, Etc in your 40s and 50s.
I work out and exercise regularly with people caught by surprise like this who are a marathoners, cut, bulked-up, whatever. Some as young as their mid forties. Many with perfect BMI and very desirable physique / muscle structure. No two people exhibit cardiac symptoms the same way, and some people never exhibit symptoms even at the same time that they are starving critical heart muscle of oxygen and creating long-term damage that they can never recover from. Talk about a sad day for marathoner/Spartan, or similar!
Likewise I'm not advocating to be a gazelle, just understand the risk factors and look out for them.
One last thing: I've got a good friend and co-worker in Canada who is almost 60 and still waiting in line to get his first treadmill EKG. Been waiting almost 10 years. Scared me to death, because that's the only way I found out about my blockage early enough to sidestep permanent damage. No other symptoms, resting EKG, echocardiogram, etc. looked great, etc.
Same situation with my current boss's Dad, he died at my age due to undiagnosed cardiac heart disease in England. They just don't do the proactive testing.
I want no part of socialized medicine. For this reason alone.
I am no fan or defender of our current medical environment other than I still believe we get better Healthcare than just about any of the other countries outside of places like Switzerland and other very wealthy countries.
I remember many years ago I went to an Arfcom Tard shoot for AZ guys. I was wildly disappointed in the amount of fat fukking slobs who were part of the "tactical" community.
That's the core issue, there are so many widely varying opinions, and even varying research that this issue is very muddy.
Especially if it gets to "what's the right value", people always want an analytic answer. When the reality is probably a behavioral answer, entangled with "don't eat more calories than your body can use or metabolize". I understand there are valid reasons for high calorie diets when doing significant strength training, Etc. But physics are physics, any calories you don't use get stored somewhere. Your behavior and chemistry dictates whether that's fat or something else.
Physics is physics, but that's one of many reasons we find ourselves in these muddy waters, over simplifications on topics not that simple. For example, see:
http://www.brinkzone.com/weight-loss/is-the-dieting-rule-3500-calories-per-pound-weight-loss-correct/
and
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html
Much of what you're talking about is not as much in dispute as you may think. People over complicate in areas they don't need to, and over simplify in areas they should not.
I remember many years ago I went to an Arfcom Tard shoot for AZ guys. I was wildly disappointed in the amount of fat fukking slobs who were part of the "tactical" community.
Well, it's Arfcom, so what did you expect? Having said that, I try not to pass judgement until I know who they are and other intel. Met many a guy who at one time was a serious meat eating tactical stud who seriously let themselves go, some times due to injuries, etc, some times due to other reasons none of my business. You can usually tell the difference of course, but I try to not judge the book by its cover cliche till I at least know more.
Physics is physics, but that's one of many reasons we find ourselves in these muddy waters, over simplifications on topics not that simple. For example, see:
http://www.brinkzone.com/weight-loss/is-the-dieting-rule-3500-calories-per-pound-weight-loss-correct/
and
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html
Much of what you're talking about is not as much in dispute as you may think. People over complicate in areas they don't need to, and over simplify in areas they should not.
I won't argue with you on any of that, both because it's your lane, and also because it's what I also believe. I'm not a calorie chaser exactly for the reason you describe.
Nor advocating any particular diet or not. Nor use or nonuse of supplements.
Just (probably in too many words) trying to make sure people understand the risk factors of cardiac heart disease and type 2 diabetes are more insidious than many realize. And have to be watched for earlier than most realize.
In my thirties I thought I was invincible, though I was starting to realize that there were some things that I didn't have the skills that I thought I had. Example: being a fighter pilot versus a private pilot. And that I would never be an Army Ranger even if I thought I might have had th licks in my 20s.
Then you start hitting surprises in your forties and then many more in your 50s. It may not be heart disease it may be something else. But there's nearly always surprises that you did not predict.
Keep an eye out for blind spots and shine a light on them
I won't argue with you on any of that, both because it's your lane, and also because it's what I also believe. I'm not a calorie chaser exactly for the reason you describe.
Nor advocating any particular diet or not. Nor use or nonuse of supplements.
Just (probably in too many words) trying to make sure people understand the risk factors of cardiac heart disease and type 2 diabetes are more insidious than many realize. And have to be watched for earlier than most realize.
In my thirties I thought I was invincible, though I was starting to realize that there were some things that I didn't have the skills that I thought I had. Example: being a fighter pilot versus a private pilot. And that I would never be an Army Ranger even if I thought I might have had th licks in my 20s.
Then you start hitting surprises in your forties and then many more in your 50s. It may not be heart disease it may be something else. But there's nearly always surprises that you did not predict.
Keep an eye out for blind spots and shine a light on them
No debate there. I will say for reducing risks of major diseases, general health, etc that data continues to find The Mediterranean diet/Mediterranean-style eating, is a winner and probably what most should follow for those basic goals, moderating total cals as far as weight management is concerned. With some tweaks, more or less what I have recommended for decades:
Mediterranean diet: A heart-healthy eating plan
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801
This thought process has had me more interested in fitness, but also in learning other 'life-saving' skills besides just shooting. I think getting some solid med training is an essential skill to have if you intend to carry a firearm. I get it isn't as sexy as the 3 day burn it down at 10 yards carbine class, but I have decided to hold off on firearms classes until I get a solid med class like dark angel in. Like almost everyone, I have a finite amount of resources (time and money) for classes, so it is well past time for me to get real med training.
Like the OP, I still work at a large retailer with an FFL/SOT (been here for about 4 years now), and see the 'preparing for fantasy scenario X' people all the time. Managing the range we have has taken me off the sales floor for the most part, but now I get to see the people who believe they will turn into Roland Deschain the gunslinger after the end of the world that currently can't even hit a B8 at 25 with a pistol. It really is more about the gear collecting than even shooting. It gets back to Eurodriver's 6920 thread, which I won't repeat as i'm sure the salient points are already known to most people reading this. At this point, I usually just smile and nod at most people on the range. As long as you are being safe, you can be as horrible of a shooter as you want, and I really don't care. I'm happy to help if you want it, but most people don't care, so I won't care for them.
No debate there. I will say for reducing risks of major diseases, general health, etc that data continues to find The Mediterranean diet/Mediterranean-style eating, is a winner and probably what most should follow for those basic goals,
At the risk of spending too much time on old fart stuff...
There are other things the young studs (30's?) may want to be aware of that may bite you in your 40's and 50's. Representative, not exhaustive list, as this is not the stuff folks talk about.
Will's advice on the med diet and similar, great stuff.
- I was a big salad eater in my 30's. Tried to eat health, blah, blah. (yep, know about the dressings). Thats what I ate for lunch most days, salad with grilled chicken, etc.
Problem is, starting in my late 40's, I now have a sensitivity to iceberg, romain, and similar lettuce. Anything more than nuisance presence triggers bowel stuff. Baby spinich is the only one I can eat, and that I have to eat after my main entree to be able to keep it. Did that come from a heavy salad diet? Don't know. Will never know. Just can't go there now, it's X'd out.
- Nuts. Healthy nuts. I love them. Still eat them quite often. But a broken jaw in HS now has led to complete mandibular joint failure on one side. Nut's are very hard on it, painful. Everyone has some wear there, but I have to moderate nuts.
Other friends have different triggers. I can't have much more than trace Jalapeno. But white pepper and red peppers of certain types is fine.
Point being, you may have large components of certain diets short circuit out.
Then the joint issues... common one, knee problem.
- Ortho doc: "let me guess, you jump out of pickup truck beds". Yep.. why? It's the one of the hardest things an adult can do to their knees. Don't do that any more. But even now a couple of times each treadmill session I'll have a knee go out and have to catch myself.
OK, my mid-twenties paratrooper son. Averaging 10-11 jumps a year, most in full battle rattle. Guess what happens to CPT-MAJ-LTC's at that pace? Knees go! These are very fit men, pretty much all of them ex-regiment.
- I have Three cracked vertebra from three different events- Nightime death-sledding on ski slopes in norway, Thrown from a horse in my late 40's, and a neck one from Enduro bike stupidity. Cronic back pain, largely unavoidable. With some potential interaction with bowel issues due to the location of one of the cracks/damage and associated nerves.
- Kettleballs? Certain exercises? Kills old shoulder injuries, mostly from snow skiing for decades. Missing bone parts in my wrists from old dirt bike injuries. Can't do pushups on my palms, have to do on knuckles with wrist straight.
- Hands ache when I wake up, badly. Hard to move. Jammed fingers from rock climbing, extensive wrenching over the years, etc.
- Very prone to twisted/rolled ankles now due to repeated injuries in the woods and dirt bike stuff. (should have worn my big boots)
- Celebrex helps with the pain (amazingly). Oh, but it's contraindicated with heart meds, so don't take it.
Luckily my prostrate is great shape!!! :-) I have many buddies with similar, but different lists. FireFly is now going to go back to saying he wants to be dead by 50 after hearing this
Point in all this is not to be the old fart complaining about aches and pains.
Instead, that old sins and incidents come back to haunt you. And new ones. So assumptions you may be making now about what you can do, and what you can eat may not be valid.
And some stuff you'll want to really look out for, if you can avoid it. Especially knee/back/ankle. I can handle aching hands. When the knee or ankle goes, you can lose mobility for weeks!
Enough old fart stuff... I'm going to go walk my woods and try to give some beavers kinetic energy poisoning! :-) While I still can!
This thought process has had me more interested in fitness, but also in learning other 'life-saving' skills besides just shooting. I think getting some solid med training is an essential skill to have if you intend to carry a firearm. I get it isn't as sexy as the 3 day burn it down at 10 yards carbine class, but I have decided to hold off on firearms classes until I get a solid med class like dark angel in. Like almost everyone, I have a finite amount of resources (time and money) for classes, so it is well past time for me to get real med training.
Wild dark angel is great, as are a multitude of two and three day tactical medicine classes, really all people need is what is taught at bleeding control.org. A two-hour class that's designed to teach people how to stop bleeding in life-threatening situations. That will cover 99% of what 99% of people need in an emergency.
It's a great class, sanctioned by the American College of Surgeons, and endorsed by the committee for tactical combat casualty care.
Steinbeck said the mind is the final weapon; all else is supplemental. Tim Kennedy said train to be the hardest man anyone tries to kill. A mind is the first weapon, our body is the second. That's how we need to think, that's how we need to train.
Steinbeck said the mind is the final weapon; all else is supplemental. Tim Kennedy sad train to be the hardest man anyone tries to kill. A mine is the first weapon, our body is the second. That's how we need to think, that's how we need to train.
No doubt true, but if the mind is able and willing and the body aint because you can't climb even a set of stairs without heavy breathing, etc, you're obviously far more likely to meet your demise. The body being the vehicle for which you must move and transport that brain
No doubt true, but if the mind is able and willing and the body aint because you can't climb even a set of stairs without heavy breathing, etc, you're obviously far more likely to meet your demise. The body being the vehicle for which you must move and transport that brain
Of course you're right, I think the principal was about mind over weapons and tactics. Using the mind to think your way out of a situation, rather than going to physical aggression or weapons first. Of course you can be sharp as a tack and have a brilliant mind, but if you can't move from here to there, it's no good. Also the reason I chose those two specifically is that it's a system, one without the other is useless.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-15-17, 10:40
I also think it's a bit odd to consider benching bodyweight and pressing bodyweight overhead a single strength standard, because pressing your bodyweight overhead is about ten times harder than benching it.
Other than that this post is really something that most people on gun forums really need to read.
This was a screw up on my part when I was editing, it was supposed to be BW Bench x10. Thanks for pointing that out. I went back and corrected.
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P2Vaircrewman
10-15-17, 15:12
Interesting thread.
A little back ground, I am a 73 year old male, 170 pounds, 5’10 ‘, 32 ‘ waist, played football and ran track in high school. After high school I ran anywhere from 3 to 5 days a week, 3 to 5 miles. Best 5K was 21 minutes, cholesterol always below 195. Also played tennis and scuba dived and swam, did off and on lifting, mostly off. I worked 33 years of rotating shift work in the chemical industry, retired in 2002. I have no diabetes and take minimal medication.
At age 54 I started having discomfort in my chest while running, I ended up requiring 3 bypasses but no heart damage. I returned to running 8 weeks after the bypass.
In 2007 I began having sciatic pain and numbness in my legs and was diagnosed with spinal stenosis and had a laminectomy at L5. As clearance for the surgery I had a stress test and angiogram that revealed one bypass had become blocked. No physical intervention was possible. I was proscribed statins and found I had a very bad reaction to them and discontinued use. I began running again once the back healed. About 5 years ago I decreased my running because of low back pain and then 3 years ago I started experiencing sciatic pain again in my right leg.
An MRI revealed spondylolisthesis at L4/L5. I went through physical therapy and spinal injection with no improvement. Fusion at L4/L5 was recommended but after one back surgery I was leery of another. I decide to continue physical therapy on my own. I joined a local health club doing strength training mostly on machines. As I gained strength I moved to free weight but remained conscious of loading up my back.
During one particularly strenuous work out I had discomfort similar to that I had prior to the bypass. I took a stress test which indicated better than in 2007 but because of the discomfort I experienced an angiogram was done and it indicated that a second bypass had become blocked. Again no physical intervention was possible but because of collateral artery growth as a result of my years of strenuous exercise my heart was receiving sufficient blood flow in all but the most strenuous exertion.
About 12 months ago I began doing back squats and dead lifts, within weeks my sciatic pain went away and has never returned. I put on 20 pounds of muscle weight and can press and squat 150 pounds and dead lift 220. My routine is two days a week, squats on one day dead lifts on the other, bench press, overhead press, pullups, shrugs, curls and tricep push downs every session.
Two years ago I started on a new cholesterol lowering medication that is not a statin that has lowered my cholesterol to less than 95 with no side effects. Initial studies have shown it to reverse blockages at a rate of 1% to 2% a year.
I am thinking of doing some running using HIIT rather than distance.
All in all there are no guarantees. When I first walked into my new cardiologist’s office after my bypass the first thing he said was, “I don’t know why you are here.” Meaning I did not fit the preconceived notion of a typical person with heart issues. I was not overweight, a nonsmoker, moderate alcohol usage, cholesterol below 200 and physically active. I believe that the stress of 33 years of shift work and some family issues was a contributor to my heart problems.
As for shooting I have my own range and I have taken several local pistol and carbine classes. I shoot as often as I can being on a fixed income, LOL.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-15-17, 16:25
Interesting thread.
A little back ground, I am a 73 year old male, 170 pounds, 5’10 ‘, 32 ‘ waist, played football and ran track in high school. After high school I ran anywhere from 3 to 5 days a week, 3 to 5 miles. Best 5K was 21 minutes, cholesterol always below 195. Also played tennis and scuba dived and swam, did off and on lifting, mostly off. I worked 33 years of rotating shift work in the chemical industry, retired in 2002. I have no diabetes and take minimal medication.
At age 54 I started having discomfort in my chest while running, I ended up requiring 3 bypasses but no heart damage. I returned to running 8 weeks after the bypass.
In 2007 I began having sciatic pain and numbness in my legs and was diagnosed with spinal stenosis and had a laminectomy at L5. As clearance for the surgery I had a stress test and angiogram that revealed one bypass had become blocked. No physical intervention was possible. I was proscribed statins and found I had a very bad reaction to them and discontinued use. I began running again once the back healed. About 5 years ago I decreased my running because of low back pain and then 3 years ago I started experiencing sciatic pain again in my right leg.
An MRI revealed spondylolisthesis at L4/L5. I went through physical therapy and spinal injection with no improvement. Fusion at L4/L5 was recommended but after one back surgery I was leery of another. I decide to continue physical therapy on my own. I joined a local health club doing strength training mostly on machines. As I gained strength I moved to free weight but remained conscious of loading up my back.
During one particularly strenuous work out I had discomfort similar to that I had prior to the bypass. I took a stress test which indicated better than in 2007 but because of the discomfort I experienced an angiogram was done and it indicated that a second bypass had become blocked. Again no physical intervention was possible but because of collateral artery growth as a result of my years of strenuous exercise my heart was receiving sufficient blood flow in all but the most strenuous exertion.
About 12 months ago I began doing back squats and dead lifts, within weeks my sciatic pain went away and has never returned. I put on 20 pounds of muscle weight and can press and squat 150 pounds and dead lift 220. My routine is two days a week, squats on one day dead lifts on the other, bench press, overhead press, pullups, shrugs, curls and tricep push downs every session.
Two years ago I started on a new cholesterol lowering medication that is not a statin that has lowered my cholesterol to less than 95 with no side effects. Initial studies have shown it to reverse blockages at a rate of 1% to 2% a year.
I am thinking of doing some running using HIIT rather than distance.
All in all there are no guarantees. When I first walked into my new cardiologist’s office after my bypass the first thing he said was, “I don’t know why you are here.” Meaning I did not fit the preconceived notion of a typical person with heart issues. I was not overweight, a nonsmoker, moderate alcohol usage, cholesterol below 200 and physically active. I believe that the stress of 33 years of shift work and some family issues was a contributor to my heart problems.
As for shooting I have my own range and I have taken several local pistol and carbine classes. I shoot as often as I can being on a fixed income, LOL.
Awesome story and thanks for posting it! I’d say your doctor is likely right in that shift work was likely the primary contributing factor in your heart problems. Heart problems are very common in people who spend a career doing shift work. I know heart issues are very common in the fire and police world.
While being physically fit is no guarantee that you don’t develop and sort of health problems, it’s obviously very effective at preventing them, and also in mitigating them. Had you not been so physically fit your whole life, you likely would not be in as great a shape as you are now. Also congrats on your accomplishments in the gym, I feel like those are impressive numbers for someone in your age/weight category! Keep it up!
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Mr. Goodtimes
10-15-17, 16:41
My learning: desk work is the new smoking
Yes x100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001
One of the primary reasons that we have seen such a dramatic rise in health problems is because our society has gone largely from one that works manual labor jobs and eats real food to one that does desk jobs and eats shit food.
I disagree about carbohydrates. I don’t personally think high carbohydrate diets are bad for you and much research backs this up. Depending on your lifestyle and caloric needs. Another key factor is what kind of carbs? 300 grams a day of carbs from potato’s and rice is not the same thing as mainlining milk shakes. Look at societies where they eat a large amount of rice like Japan and most of the rest of Asia, those people are exceptionally healthy.
Our obsession here in The United States and most of Western Europe with low carb is because most people in these areas are sedentary and don’t exercise.
I eat around 300 grams of carbs per day and I’m lean. It’s about timing and following macros. I’m leaner, more muscular, stronger and feel better eating a higher carb diet. Now.. my carbs come exclusively from fruit, vegetables, rice and potato’s. Consider too that I work a part/full time job as a climbing Arborist in addition to maintaining a workout regimen that would probably kill most Americans. Big difference than someone who’s sedentary and eating Mac and cheese all day. Thus why I explain that my caloric needs and values are going to be different than someone who works a desk job and goes to the gym 2-3 times a week for 30-60 min of half assed exercise.
Great thread. Fitness is so important and an area many don't pay enough attention to. I know it I've caught myself spending too much time on guns and gear and thought what's the point if you are not fit. The time spent on the gear and talking about it could be better spent on exercise and eating right. Gotta go get on the Airdyne and hit the bench press on my lunch break!
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Yup...Nobody likes the fat kid. Trust me, I know. I've been listening to some version or another of your stupid rant for the last 40 year.
I've tried all the eating plans...high carb, low carb, low calorie, paleo, Whole30 until it became a borderline eating disorder. Guess what...No change. Still fat.
I have a desk job but I'm not really that sedentary. About a 18months ago I joined a gym and worked with a trainer. I hit it hard for about 6 months...Three times a week. At first I felt great. Lost some weight and gained some muscle. As the weeks ground by, though, I started to not recover. I'd go into a workout barely able to move. Then I started to get sick. Eventually the fatigue got so bad I could barely manage to get out of bed to go to work. Went to the Medical Dummy. He didn't know shit about what was going on (big surprise there), so I just stopped going. I still have fatigue issues, but at least I get out of bed to come drive my desk.
Anyway, I no longer give any ****s.
Yup...Nobody likes the fat kid. Trust me, I know. I've been listening to some version or another of your stupid rant for the last 40 year.
I've tried all the eating plans...high carb, low carb, low calorie, paleo, Whole30 until it became a borderline eating disorder. Guess what...No change. Still fat.
I have a desk job but I'm not really that sedentary. About a 18months ago I joined a gym and worked with a trainer. I hit it hard for about 6 months...Three times a week. At first I felt great. Lost some weight and gained some muscle. As the weeks ground by, though, I started to not recover. I'd go into a workout barely able to move. Then I started to get sick. Eventually the fatigue got so bad I could barely manage to get out of bed to go to work. Went to the Medical Dummy. He didn't know shit about what was going on (big surprise there), so I just stopped going. I still have fatigue issues, but at least I get out of bed to come drive my desk.
Anyway, I no longer give any ****s.
You might want to consider a full hormonal work up done. Assuming the other variables are GTG yet issues like that arise, a full hormonal panel is my recommended next step.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-16-17, 12:37
Yup...Nobody likes the fat kid. Trust me, I know. I've been listening to some version or another of your stupid rant for the last 40 year.
I've tried all the eating plans...high carb, low carb, low calorie, paleo, Whole30 until it became a borderline eating disorder. Guess what...No change. Still fat.
I have a desk job but I'm not really that sedentary. About a 18months ago I joined a gym and worked with a trainer. I hit it hard for about 6 months...Three times a week. At first I felt great. Lost some weight and gained some muscle. As the weeks ground by, though, I started to not recover. I'd go into a workout barely able to move. Then I started to get sick. Eventually the fatigue got so bad I could barely manage to get out of bed to go to work. Went to the Medical Dummy. He didn't know shit about what was going on (big surprise there), so I just stopped going. I still have fatigue issues, but at least I get out of bed to come drive my desk.
Anyway, I no longer give any ****s.
It sounds to me like your biggest problem is mindset. You didn’t turn into a fat turd overnight and you’re not going to reverse it overnight either. It also sounds like your trainer was potentially overtraining and under feeding you. It’s possible you may have some other health issues too. I would suggest getting blood work done to see what your Testosterone levels and Thyroid levels look like and then go from there.
It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind though, so, I do wish you the best on your road to an unnecessarily early and miserable death. Hopefully you haven’t already procreated.
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Mr. Goodtimes
10-16-17, 12:40
Great thread. Fitness is so important and an area many don't pay enough attention to. I know it I've caught myself spending too much time on guns and gear and thought what's the point if you are not fit. The time spent on the gear and talking about it could be better spent on exercise and eating right. Gotta go get on the Airdyne and hit the bench press on my lunch break!
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It is easy, guns and gear are fun and it’s not hard at all to get suckered into researching gear you don’t need or spending time at the range when you could benefit far more from hitting the trails or the weight room. Often times I don’t want to work out but I do, because I know it’s what’s good. It’s almost an instinct.
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I do wish you the best on your road to an unnecessarily early and miserable death. Hopefully you haven’t already procreated.
Thanks! :dance3:
Shooting's a hobby for me; but trying to stay healthy and exercising is part of my chosen lifestyle.
This.
I'm NOTHING like I was years ago in my S.W.A.T. days, but even at 50-something now, I can still smoke the average 25 year old LEO on the PT-obstacle course.
The data is still rolling in... Americans are getting fatter and even fatter. Even with this being a known issue, the course is not reversing. Normal weight people have become the minority. Short of a debilitating injury, I refuse to let myself get soft. If I get hurt and can't work out anymore, I can still eat right. This thread is a good reminder for me. I should probably spend more time in this section of M4C.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-22-17, 13:26
This.
I'm NOTHING like I was years ago in my S.W.A.T. days, but even at 50-something now, I can still smoke the average 25 year old LEO on the PT-obstacle course.
The data is still rolling in... Americans are getting fatter and even fatter. Even with this being a known issue, the course is not reversing. Normal weight people have become the minority. Short of a debilitating injury, I refuse to let myself get soft. If I get hurt and can't work out anymore, I can still eat right. This thread is a good reminder for me. I should probably spend more time in this section of M4C.
I believe the problem is exasperated by our busy life styles and easy access to low quality, fattening foods. Everywhere you look now days there’s cheap, abundant junk food. Nobody cooks at home anymore and when they do, it’s usually out of a box, not with fresh unprocessed ingredients.
It’s really simple, we’re getting fat and developing all sorts of health problems because of three things... poor diet, excessively busy lifestyles and lack of exercise. All three of those things are intertwined.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-22-17, 13:27
This.
I'm NOTHING like I was years ago in my S.W.A.T. days, but even at 50-something now, I can still smoke the average 25 year old LEO on the PT-obstacle course.
The data is still rolling in... Americans are getting fatter and even fatter. Even with this being a known issue, the course is not reversing. Normal weight people have become the minority. Short of a debilitating injury, I refuse to let myself get soft. If I get hurt and can't work out anymore, I can still eat right. This thread is a good reminder for me. I should probably spend more time in this section of M4C.
I believe the problem is exasperated by our busy life styles and easy access to low quality, fattening foods. Everywhere you look now days there’s cheap, abundant junk food. Nobody cooks at home anymore and when they do, it’s usually out of a box, not with fresh unprocessed ingredients.
It’s really simple, we’re getting fat and developing all sorts of health problems because of three things... poor diet, excessively busy lifestyles and lack of exercise. All three of those things are intertwined.
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Eurodriver
10-22-17, 13:49
Well this thread sure seems like a winner.
It’s almost like the same people who like to debate the best lube for 45 pages are the same people who stay out of the gym and eat Taco Bell every day!
Mr. Goodtimes
10-22-17, 13:57
Well this thread sure seems like a winner.
It’s almost like the same people who like to debate the best lube for 45 pages are the same people who stay out of the gym and eat Taco Bell every day!
This is my surprised face.
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This is not directed at Mr. Goodtimes. I am making a general observation abut the state of our country.
It’s really simple, we’re getting fat and developing all sorts of health problems because of three things... poor diet, excessively busy lifestyles and lack of exercise. All three of those things are intertwined.
B.S.. Life is all about choices.
I moved out on my own when I was 17, never had anything handed to me and have steadily worked my arse off for the last 35 years. Sometimes I even worked three jobs to make things work and pay for the schooling that I needed to get me where I am now. Since the age of 22, I've ALWAYS tried to eat decently, and have forced myself to work out and keep myself in good shape. For several years, I did this living paycheck to paycheck, barely.
Disclaimer: This next statement does not apply to people that are disabled and are unable to do exercise:
IMHO, in the last 20 years, Americans have switched mindsets from "fit is it" to "fat is where it's at".
Americans are fat because they are OK with being fat. Being fat is the new norm. Excuses, excuses... Yes, sitting is the new smoking. I guess I'm F-ked then... I sat in a patrol car for years, then made detective and sat behind a desk for years... Now I'm a wide-body airline pilot and SIT in an airplane 6-12 hours at a time, 12-14 days a month, and am stuck in hotels for the same amount of time...
Whether it was on patrol or behind a desk as a cop, to now being in airports and/or hotels half of my life, the ability to eat right is there, you just have to work at it. Sometimes you have to improvise. This might mean bringing food with you. This means getting out of the chair and stretching once an hour. One must get off of their fat butt and do at least some type of exercise. One does not need to go to a gym and turn into a meathead... For gosh sakes people, at least go walk a mile or two after dinner a few nights a week. DO SOMETHING!
I've heard ALL of the excuses. Being injured/disabled is the ONLY excuse that I can come up with that's valid. Even if you are injured, you can still eat right. Unless you are a quadriplegic, you can still do some type of exercise. Even if you have four toddlers in the house and are severely time constrained, you are of no use to them in a SHTF (could just be a house fire), if you can't get your fat arses up and down the stairs a few times under severe stress while carrying a load... If your house catches on fire, is your fat arse going to be able to do what it takes to get your family out? What if you have to climb out a second story window with a child or a pet???
Life is all about choices... If you are overweight, more than likely, it is because you chose to be. If that is the case, that's fine, just stop making excuses. Embrace your fatness.
None of us are going to live forever. Genetics will still play a part. I could still keel over from a massive stroke or heart failure at 60, but I'm doing everything that I can to mitigate that. By being in shape, in the meantime, I can pertty much go out and to just about anything that I have time to do. I'm not stuck in a recliner watching stupid gladiator games on ESPN..
Get off of your buns and get out there... [/off rant]
Again, just an observation and not directed at Mr. Goodtimes. I'm just replying to a point he brought up.
...
I will end with what I feel (in my humble opinion) are some very basic minimum standards people should be able to meet:
- Back Squat your own body weight for 10 reps.
- Deadlift 1.5x your body weight for 10 reps.
- Overhead Press your body weight
- Bench Press your body weight for 10 reps.
- 10 pull-ups (unbroken)
- 50 push-ups (unbroken)
- 50 Kettlebell Swings w/ 53lb kettlebell (unbroken)
- Run 1 mile in street clothes in 7:00 without going into SVT.
- Row a 5k in under 20:00 without going into SVT.
- Be able to walk 10 miles with your “bug out bag” in your “bug out” gear.
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While you made some good points, those above are not always feasable for everyone depending on their genetics, past history of injury, or just overall physical ability/disability.
Now it is always good to be in the best shape you can be, but it doesn't always happen for everyone (whatever the reason/excuse may be). Frankly, Your "minimum standards" are quite high IMO. For example, doing 10 real pull-ups, or overhead pressing your own weight, or running sub-7min mile are difficult unless you have trained continuously and stay in good shape all the time. Although I can do 12 pull-ups and 50 push-ups, it was not easy getting to that point and took decades of continuous exercise routine. I bet only 1 out of 20 people can crank out 10 pull-ups or 50 push-ups.
Another thing to consider is injury. People get injured in many ways: car accidents, sport injuries, skiing, etc. I used to be able to run sub-7min miles and do 5k runs a few years ago, but I injured both my ankles playing basketball so I cannot run continuously anymore. I also have shoulder pain from years of playing college basketball so I cannot shoulder press my weight (180lbs, which is actually quite heavy for anyone not seriously into weight lifting).
Basically the standards you put are for people who are very fit (maybe Cross-fitters, active duty soldiers, athletes, or body builders) and are free from injury or disease. Just giving my 2cents coming from a long history of weight lifting, playing basketball, and running for decades until I got old (and injured unfortunately). Your standards just seem very high and not realistic for everyone unless a person is injury free and into a very rigorous exercise routine.
But I do agree that America as a whole has a health/obesity problem which is caused by terrible lifestyle choices and overall unhealthy culture of fast food, tv, internet, video games, etc.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-22-17, 15:47
While you made some good points, those above are not always feasable for everyone depending on their genetics, past history of injury, or just overall physical ability/disability.
Now it is always good to be in the best shape you can be, but it doesn't always happen for everyone (whatever the reason/excuse may be). Frankly, Your "minimum standards" are quite high IMO. For example, doing 10 real pull-ups, or overhead pressing your own weight, or running sub-7min mile are difficult unless you have trained continuously and stay in good shape all the time. Although I can do 12 pull-ups and 50 push-ups, it was not easy getting to that point and took decades of continuous exercise routine. I bet only 1 out of 20 people can crank out 10 pull-ups or 50 push-ups.
Another thing to consider is injury. People get injured in many ways: car accidents, sport injuries, skiing, etc. I used to be able to run sub-7min miles and do 5k runs a few years ago, but I injured both my ankles playing basketball so I cannot run continuously anymore. I also have shoulder pain from years of playing college basketball so I cannot shoulder press my weight (180lbs, which is actually quite heavy for anyone not seriously into weight lifting).
Basically the standards you put are for people who are very fit (maybe Cross-fitters, active duty soldiers, athletes, or body builders) and are free from injury or disease. Just giving my 2cents coming from a long history of weight lifting, playing basketball, and running for decades until I got old (and injured unfortunately). Your standards just seem very high and not realistic for everyone unless a person is injury free and into a very rigorous exercise routine.
But I do agree that America as a whole has a health/obesity problem which is caused by terrible lifestyle choices and overall unhealthy culture of fast food, tv, internet, video games, etc.
Very, very, and I mean very few people actually fall into the categories of too damaged, too physically impaired or have something so wrong with their genetics that’s causing them to be fat and lazy, “bad genetics” are an easy cop out for most people to take the lazy way out. I hear so many people complain “well I’m not stronger” or “I’m not fitter” because “I have bad genetics.” No, you don’t have bad genetics... maybe you have as good of genetics as say... Rich Froning but you don’t have bad genetics. You’re weak and dumpy because you lack discipline.
The above standards are not impossible to achieve. Those standards, while maybe higher than normal, are standards that any non physically disabled adult should be able to achieve with some dedicated physical training.
One thing to consider is that the reason most people are sick is by their own lifestyle and poor choices. Get rid of the poor lifestyle and poor choices and your poor health goes away.
The genetics argument largely holds no precedent. Where were all these fat, sick people 50 years ago? Did an already highly developed species that has been around for 200,000 years really just suddenly change in 50 years? No.
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Mr. Goodtimes
10-22-17, 15:55
This is not directed at Mr. Goodtimes. I am making a general observation abut the state of our country.
B.S.. Life is all about choices.
I moved out on my own when I was 17, never had anything handed to me and have steadily worked my arse off for the last 35 years. Sometimes I even worked three jobs to make things work and pay for the schooling that I needed to get me where I am now. Since the age of 22, I've ALWAYS tried to eat decently, and have forced myself to work out and keep myself in good shape. For several years, I did this living paycheck to paycheck, barely.
Disclaimer: This next statement does not apply to people that are disabled and are unable to do exercise:
IMHO, in the last 20 years, Americans have switched mindsets from "fit is it" to "fat is where it's at".
Americans are fat because they are OK with being fat. Being fat is the new norm. Excuses, excuses... Yes, sitting is the new smoking. I guess I'm F-ked then... I sat in a patrol car for years, then made detective and sat behind a desk for years... Now I'm a wide-body airline pilot and SIT in an airplane 6-12 hours at a time, 12-14 days a month, and am stuck in hotels for the same amount of time...
Whether it was on patrol or behind a desk as a cop, to now being in airports and/or hotels half of my life, the ability to eat right is there, you just have to work at it. Sometimes you have to improvise. This might mean bringing food with you. This means getting out of the chair and stretching once an hour. One must get off of their fat butt and do at least some type of exercise. One does not need to go to a gym and turn into a meathead... For gosh sakes people, at least go walk a mile or two after dinner a few nights a week. DO SOMETHING!
I've heard ALL of the excuses. Being injured/disabled is the ONLY excuse that I can come up with that's valid. Even if you are injured, you can still eat right. Unless you are a quadriplegic, you can still do some type of exercise. Even if you have four toddlers in the house and are severely time constrained, you are of no use to them in a SHTF (could just be a house fire), if you can't get your fat arses up and down the stairs a few times under severe stress while carrying a load... If your house catches on fire, is your fat arse going to be able to do what it takes to get your family out? What if you have to climb out a second story window with a child or a pet???
Life is all about choices... If you are overweight, more than likely, it is because you chose to be. If that is the case, that's fine, just stop making excuses. Embrace your fatness.
None of us are going to live forever. Genetics will still play a part. I could still keel over from a massive stroke or heart failure at 60, but I'm doing everything that I can to mitigate that. By being in shape, in the meantime, I can pertty much go out and to just about anything that I have time to do. I'm not stuck in a recliner watching stupid gladiator games on ESPN..
Get off of your buns and get out there... [/off rant]
Again, just an observation and not directed at Mr. Goodtimes. I'm just replying to a point he brought up.
Det Sog, you’re absolutely spot on, and let me make it clear, I’m not making excuses for people. I’m simply stating the general problem. Obviously poor choices are the ultimate deciding factor, however, it seems like now days those poor choices are made easier by our lifestyles.
Ultimately, yes, absolutely it’s individual decisions. I’m in my late twenties and I’ve been “too busy” to workout most of my adult life, yet somehow I manage to find time to eat right and not just follow a workout program, but a very advanced one. I’m a career firefighter, full time paramedic student and owner/operator of a tree care company. If I can find time, literally anyone can. It’s time management and discipline , that’s it.
Props to you for staying fit man. My father is a commercial pilot and that lifestyle is brutal for staying in good shape. Being in a different town/state/country every night, working long days with early show times, having to always stay in a bite and eat out.
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Very, very, and I mean very few people actually fall into the categories of too damaged, too physically impaired or have something so wrong with their genetics that’s causing them to be fat and lazy, “bad genetics” are an easy cop out for most people to take the lazy way out. I hear so many people complain “well I’m not stronger” or “I’m not fitter” because “I have bad genetics.” No, you don’t have bad genetics... maybe you have as good of genetics as say... Rich Froning but you don’t have bad genetics. You’re weak and dumpy because you lack discipline.
The above standards are not impossible to achieve. Those standards, while maybe higher than normal, are standards that any non physically disabled adult should be able to achieve with some dedicated physical training.
One thing to consider is that the reason most people are sick is by their own lifestyle and poor choices. Get rid of the poor lifestyle and poor choices and your poor health goes away.
The genetics argument largely holds no precedent. Where were all these fat, sick people 50 years ago? Did an already highly developed species that has been around for 200,000 years really just suddenly change in 50 years? No.
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I think you missed my point. Genetics do play a part, but mostly I'm talking about people who have certain genetic/congenital issues such as Hypothyroidism, Seizures, MS, ALS, Cystic Fibrosis, Marfan's, Guillian Barre, Huntington's, Myasthenia Gravis, etc.
While that may be a smaller population, genetics do influence and restrict physical ability in some ways and you are misinformed if you think genetics does not play a part in the human body and how each person's body works.
And yes, those fat and sick people were around 50yrs ago; but you'd have to consider exponential population growth, pollution, and overall different society factors in 1967 vs today.
While your "standards" are achievable, as we agreed it takes years of dedicated physical conditioning and a higher level of training, which in turn takes much more motivation. Its doable, but should not be the minimum standard for being healthy and fit. Each person's body is different and have different strengths and weaknesses. A slim woman who does yoga or skinny triathlon man might not be able to bench their own BW 10x, or shoulder press their BW 10x, but it does not mean they are unfit. Do you see my point there?
Out of curiosity, how did you come up with these standards???
Mr. Goodtimes
10-22-17, 19:16
I think you missed my point. Genetics do play a part, but mostly I'm talking about people who have certain genetic/congenital issues such as Hypothyroidism, Seizures, MS, ALS, Cystic Fibrosis, Marfan's, Guillian Barre, Huntington's, Myasthenia Gravis, etc.
While that may be a smaller population, genetics do influence and restrict physical ability in some ways and you are misinformed if you think genetics does not play a part in the human body and how each person's body works.
And yes, those fat and sick people were around 50yrs ago; but you'd have to consider exponential population growth, pollution, and overall different society factors in 1967 vs today.
I’m not missing your point, I completely understand it. Someone with MS obviously can’t be held to the same standard as an otherwise healthy adult. I understand genetics is a thing and people with debilitating diseases exist, all I’m saying is that as a percentage, not many people have these legitimate debilitating diseases, yet use “genetics” as a cop out.
While your "standards" are achievable, as we agreed it takes years of dedicated physical conditioning and a higher level of training, which in turn takes much more motivation. Its doable, but should not be the minimum standard for being healthy and fit. Each person's body is different and have different strengths and weaknesses. A slim woman who does yoga or skinny triathlon man might not be able to bench their own BW 10x, or shoulder press their BW 10x, but it does not mean they are unfit. Do you see my point there?
Those standards are not the minimums for being considered fit. They are a general guidelines for someone to shoot for on their quest to getting better. You’re discussing sport specific training and specialization. These guidelines are general guidelines for a well rounded athlete, not a specialized athlete.
Out of curiosity, how did you come up with these standards???
Those standards are mostly picked from a guide that’s posted on the wall of my gym which outlines standards for beginner, intermediate, advanced and elite level athletes. Most of those standards are from the intermediate to advanced portion. Some of the “advanced” standards I felt were a little low.
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Freaking GREAT Thread!! Great information - the thing I take away from this is that you need to do what is right for YOU! As a young Special Forces troop, I couldn't get "big", but I was an unstoppable distance monster - I could run or ruck forever. I could eat anything and as much as I wanted. Retired a couple of years ago and - as stated - the body is catching up to me. Almost 20 years on Jump Status and 36 years in have left me with some "owies" and "hurties". But, I'm just under 6', 180 pounds and doing well. Body fat is right about 13%. I can't run as I did and my body is breaking down so I have constantly been changing my workouts and patterns. For instance, doc was talking about putting me on BP meds and I called BS on that - told him to give me 90 days and I'd fix it. Went on a ketogenic diet and blood pressure bottomed out. Cannot get my diastolic out of the 70 range. That is excellent considering my lowest was 90 previously.
I am also spending more time stretching and trying to make the best use of what I have left. I want to stay off the meds for as long as possible. I have found that 75% of staying "fit" is what you put in your pie-hole. I have cut the sugars, cut the carbs, increased good fats and nuts and greens/veggies. I feel a WHOLE lot better; I am sleeping better; and I am able to get "more" done. I am working at controlling the inflammation response as I am becoming more and more convinced that this is all tied together. Insulin - hormones - inflammation response - health.
Yeah....you may NOT ber a pro-athlete but you CAN make the most of what you have NOW. Or, you can say "screw it" and reach for the next milkshake.
I had a bad reaction to this thread at first, but I've been thinking about it...You know what, I'll admit it, it's 100% correct. The average American is WAY more likely to meet his end as a result of a health problem than really any other way.
Despite my frustration at not having had much success in the past, it's not right to just say "f-it". Gotta keep going...Keep pushing to be a better person.
Anyway, despite my general distrust of medicine and my feeling that doctors don't really take complaints like this seriously, I'm going to start by figuring out why I'm tired all the time and then go from there.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-23-17, 18:48
I had a bad reaction to this thread at first, but I've been thinking about it...You know what, I'll admit it, it's 100% correct. The average American is WAY more likely to meet his end as a result of a health problem than really any other way.
Despite my frustration at not having had much success in the past, it's not right to just say "f-it". Gotta keep going...Keep pushing to be a better person.
Anyway, despite my general distrust of medicine and my feeling that doctors don't really take complaints like this seriously, I'm going to start by figuring out why I'm tired all the time and then go from there.
The best thing you can do is lots of your own research. It’s a slow and tedious process and can be discouraging in and of it self. If you don’t like your doctor, find another one. Many doctors are pretty out of touch with reality, so don’t be afraid to go find a good one. There are a lot of things that can effect your energy levels. I would get blood work done and go from there.
Off the top of my head, here are some things that can cause low energy:
- Poor diet
- Poor sleep
- Obesity
- High Stress
- Hypothyroidism
- Low Testosterone
- Pre Diabetes
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Fit my whole life, working out was part of the job. When you are on a run or in the weight room with a bunch of Alpha males we pushed each other hard.
Retired and stayed fit.
Then 2.5 years ago 2 motorcycle accidents and it was no working out for about 14 months. Then started working out and got hit by tendonitis in both arms. Battled that for 9 months.
Got fat for the first time ever.
Figured out how to manage the tendonitis and started working out again and now each correctly for me.
I have lost 17 pounds and need to drop another 14 and then will be back to my fighting weight.
NEVER GIVE UP!
You got issues find answers and get back in the fight.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-23-17, 20:24
Fit my whole life, working out was part of the job. When you are on a run or in the weight room with a bunch of Alpha males we pushed each other hard.
Retired and stayed fit.
Then 2.5 years ago 2 motorcycle accidents and it was no working out for about 14 months. Then started working out and got hit by tendonitis in both arms. Battled that for 9 months.
Got fat for the first time ever.
Figured out how to manage the tendonitis and started working out again and now each correctly for me.
I have lost 17 pounds and need to drop another 14 and then will be back to my fighting weight.
NEVER GIVE UP!
You got issues find answers and get back in the fight.
I think tendinitis is common in people who used to be fit but became unfit (for whatever reason). I would say it’s mostly attributable to the fact that people who were fit at one point know what they were capable of and tend to get back into things too quickly. I had a similar issue last year.
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Inkslinger
10-23-17, 20:34
I think tendinitis is common in people who used to be fit but became unfit (for whatever reason). I would say it’s mostly attributable to the fact that people who were fit at one point know what they were capable of and tend to get back into things too quickly. I had a similar issue last year.
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I’m always in the process of getting rid of tendinitis. Having wrist the size of a 10 year old girl seems to be the reason. Lifting straps and wrist wraps have definitely helped.
TexasGunNut
10-23-17, 21:27
I'm 56 years old with more spare parts than a farm truck - titanium rods, hips, screws and more scars than skin.
This mornings stats:
6'2" or 3" depending on which rebuilt leg I'm standing on.
213.1 lbs at 10.8% body fat. Wife slobbers when I take off my shirt.
I check my weight and BF every Monday and keep a log. I plan everything I eat. I plan every training session and track my progress on every lift.
You won't change what you don't track. If you don't work to a standard you will never improve. If you don't do the work you will die before your time.
You are what you eat. LEARN what works for you and stick to it. For me it's lots of veggies, good quality fats and moderate protein. No junk food.
90% of what I eat I cook myself. I travel 150 days a year and still manage to do it. Fresh veggies in a baggie with butter and 4 minutes in the microwave. Done.
I quit alcohol years ago because :old. Made it a lot easier to keep up with everything, including my car and my sanity.
Fitness is my best survival tool because it supports my cognitive functions - Everything positive in my life is because I usually outthink my competition.
Simple does not mean easy. It is simple to know and hard to implement day in day out.
Anyone can buy a sexy LMT and ACOG. Throw on the tight 5.11's and add night vision. Sit on you ass with potatoes chips and watch a LAV training CD.
My cranky old ass, with the mud covered 6920 hanging from the rope sling around my massive chest will leave you in the dust. Even after I had to add a heavy ass Aimpoint because again :old. It doesn't matter where you are - you can improve no matter where you fell on life's lottery.
But dang you all I'm not giving up my Copenhagen.
Dr. Bullseye
10-23-17, 23:11
I am 70 and have been interested in guns for less than two years. But all my life I was an exercise junky. I played sports as a child and as a teenager paddled hundreds of miles on a surfboard. I won a frickin' trophy for physical fitness in high school, played some sports and some in college. Throughout this time I did weights. So at 5'9" I did 265 pound squats and deads for reps. I did a 245 bench and 6 reps at 225, three sets. I pressed my own weight on an Olympic bar. Then I would run 6 miles on my off day or maybe an 8 minute mile around the neighborhood. Not that any of this is freakish or better than what you do, I am only establishing credentials to talk. I did this sort of thing until I was 55.
Here is what happened to me. I HAVE FRICKIN' ARTHRITIS all over my body. Next month i go in for a hip replacement. Talk about shooting? My first reaction was a front post to take the pressure off my arthritic shoulder. I wore my body out. I am not the first. Neanderthals lived such a hard life, their bodies wore out in the same way at 45.
And I'm still doing it. Now I have a 12 pound maul which I hit a stump with as fast as I can raise and lower the maul 50 times with the right hand (like a right handed batter), rest, and 50 times with the left. This is a great workout at 6500 ft. But this is about the only thing i can do which is function-related (I cut and split wood for heating).
Don't inflict this kind of injury to your body. There are plenty of ways to do physical work and turn it into exercise in your daily life if you live or spend much time outdoors. Just cutting, hauling, splitting, stacking and carrying wood into the house is an example. Construction workers know what I am talking about all too well. If you do the repetitive resistance type of training over the years without varying it, you will end up like me.
For shooting, look at what the military does. They don't lift weights. They mix things up along with shooting training, pushups, pullups, running, walking with a pack--uphill and so on. They know what they are doing.
I am 70 and have been interested in guns for less than two years. But all my life I was an exercise junky. I played sports as a child and as a teenager paddled hundreds of miles on a surfboard. I won a frickin' trophy for physical fitness in high school, played some sports and some in college. Throughout this time I did weights. So at 5'9" I did 265 pound squats and deads for reps. I did a 245 bench and 6 reps at 225, three sets. I pressed my own weight on an Olympic bar. Then I would run 6 miles on my off day or maybe an 8 minute mile around the neighborhood. Not that any of this is freakish or better than what you do, I am only establishing credentials to talk. I did this sort of thing until I was 55.
Here is what happened to me. I HAVE FRICKIN' ARTHRITIS all over my body. Next month i go in for a hip replacement. Talk about shooting? My first reaction was a front post to take the pressure off my arthritic shoulder. I wore my body out. I am not the first. Neanderthals lived such a hard life, their bodies wore out in the same way at 45.
And I'm still doing it. Now I have a 12 pound maul which I hit a stump with as fast as I can raise and lower the maul 50 times with the right hand (like a right handed batter), rest, and 50 times with the left. This is a great workout at 6500 ft. But this is about the only thing i can do which is function-related (I cut and split wood for heating).
Don't inflict this kind of injury to your body. There are plenty of ways to do physical work and turn it into exercise in your daily life if you live or spend much time outdoors. Just cutting, hauling, splitting, stacking and carrying wood into the house is an example. Construction workers know what I am talking about all too well. If you do the repetitive resistance type of training over the years without varying it, you will end up like me.
For shooting, look at what the military does. They don't lift weights. They mix things up along with shooting training, pushups, pullups, running, walking with a pack--uphill and so on. They know what they are doing.
The military could stand to lift some more weights. They have a culture of stringy, overly lean 'runner' types, and the results show when you look at jump qualified personnel. They are almost all ruined for life. It's only a subjective guess, but I'm sure less paratroopers would have chronic leg injuries if they focused more on building a set of legs worthy of an Olympic speed skater rather than running so much.
I don't think the answer is to not lift. I think the answer is something else you touched on - variation. Doing the same movements over and over, and consistently overloading them, without ever changing up the intensity, volume, frequency, or exercise variation, is bound to lead to overuse injuries. This is something that strength athletes have caught onto as well.
The military could stand to lift some more weights. They have a culture of stringy, overly lean 'runner' types, and the results show when you look at jump qualified personnel. They are almost all ruined for life. It's only a subjective guess, but I'm sure less paratroopers would have chronic leg injuries if they focused more on building a set of legs worthy of an Olympic speed skater rather than running so much.
I don't think the answer is to not lift. I think the answer is something else you touched on - variation. Doing the same movements over and over, and consistently overloading them, without ever changing up the intensity, volume, frequency, or exercise variation, is bound to lead to overuse injuries. This is something that strength athletes have caught onto as well.
Although individuals certainly can (lift) it is impractical to suggest that the military take on a lifting regimen. They have slowly turned away the "runner's physique"-type workout to functional fitness, which has resulted in fewer injuries and more endurance.
The problem with airborne and any of the heavy-lift guys isn't that they are deconditioned or lack the proper workout; the problem is when you ask a guy to day-after-day to carry 2x body weight, it will break you down, regardless of how 'in shape' you are.
But spend much time around US Army paratrooper units, you won't see that many gazelles.
What.
What.
Fair catch, and I should have been more specific: My observation on that is due solely due to proximity/visibility/interaction with the officer pipeline headed to Paratrooper units and experience sharing of multiple officers after arrival at their units. And that of a few senior career officers who have been in and out of Airborne units for decades. And may reflect more officer mindset than enlisted.
And to be crystal clear, I am not a paratrooper nor have ever been.
Remaining comments on bulk vs gazelle trends deleted as outta my lane
Just completed what I call the, “Gimme a minute.” Workout, because that’s all anyone says when they do it with me:
5 minutes rowing at maximum resistance, keeping a 2:30/500m minimum pace the entire time.
25 36kg Kettlebell Swings
1/4 mile run.
Tonight I did 4 sets in 35min 47sec,
In college I would do 8 sets in 1:05. My main problem is walking over to the treadmill and having it spin up. In college there was a track so I could just run.
Try it out! Post your times! It’s a great workout.
Although individuals certainly can (lift) it is impractical to suggest that the military take on a lifting regimen. They have slowly turned away the "runner's physique"-type workout to functional fitness, which has resulted in fewer injuries and more endurance.
I have posted a ton on that topic here over the years. My general thoughts on "tactical athletes" as found on EliteFTS. My other stuff published in LE publications (Police Magazine, etc) was Tac LE specific.
https://www.elitefts.com/education/training/practical-applied-stress-training-p-a-s-t-for-tactical-athletes/
The problem with airborne and any of the heavy-lift guys isn't that they are deconditioned or lack the proper workout; the problem is when you ask a guy to day-after-day to carry 2x body weight, it will break you down, regardless of how 'in shape' you are.
There's a diminishing return to body mass and strength for mil, but it's also well established that those who can carry a wounded person, ammo, and the M240 who don't perform well, get crapped on in standard testing, which (finally) seems to be heading toward more "job specific" testing. It seems the Marines are ahead of the curve on this. Per link above:
Marine Corp. developing the Combat Fitness Test (CFT); Marines must pass in addition to the standard Marine Corps Physical Fitness Test (PFT). The Marine Corp. Times states:
“Unlike the familiar Physical Fitness Test, the Corps’ new Combat Fitness Test is designed to assess Marines’ physical strength, endurance and agility where it really counts: in battle.”
I have posted a ton on that topic here over the years. My general thoughts on "tactical athletes" as found on EliteFTS. My other stuff published in LE publications (Police Magazine, etc) was Tac LE specific.
https://www.elitefts.com/education/training/practical-applied-stress-training-p-a-s-t-for-tactical-athletes/
There's a diminishing return to body mass and strength for mil, but it's also well established that those who can carry a wounded person, ammo, and the M240 who don't perform well, get crapped on in standard testing, which (finally) seems to be heading toward more "job specific" testing. It seems the Marines are ahead of the curve on this. Per link above:
Marine Corp. developing the Combat Fitness Test (CFT); Marines must pass in addition to the standard Marine Corps Physical Fitness Test (PFT). The Marine Corp. Times states:
“Unlike the familiar Physical Fitness Test, the Corps’ new Combat Fitness Test is designed to assess Marines’ physical strength, endurance and agility where it really counts: in battle.”
That's good stuff. I have read it before ;)
The Corps started their CFT after I got out; before I got out, units were doing a similar type of thing for unit PT to augment overall strength and conditioning. What was interesting (and totally anecdotal) was when we PT'd to the PFT standards (running, pull-ups, sit-ups), those score got a little better for most guys. When we did the CFT-type exercise, almost everyone's PFT scores improved across the board.
This is a good thread. I had a couple questions I wanted to ask out of curiosity.
How many days a week are you guys putting into running? Whether long distance, or high intensity sprints. I understand that weight lifting exercise is important, but I've always prioritized running in my exercise.
My workout schedule has been more or less the following:
Monday - 5 to 7 mile run
Tuesday - Body weight exercises. I change these up, but one example would be: plank for 10 minutes, legs held straight with knees locked 6 inches above ground for 10 minutes, side planks at 5 minutes per side. Sit ups.
Wednesday - Upper and lower body exercise. These are also changed up every time, but another example: pull ups with backpack (I put an 8 lb weight in the backpack and one liter of water). Five sets of 7 reps with a 10 second rest between sets. 75 push ups with same backpack on. Five sets: first set is 30 push ups, then hold in up position for 10 seconds. Do 15 push ups and hold in up position for 10 seconds. Do three more sets of 10 push ups with 10 second hold in up position. I'll do three other exercises of something for five sets each, only 10 second rest between sets.
Thursday - 3 mile run. This one is mostly all steep uphills with few short flats in between. I live in an area with a lot of hills.
Friday - Repeat Tuesday's workout, but change it up. For example, if I did plank and legs 6 inches off ground Tuesday, then I will do inverted plank (feet on edge of bed about 2 to 3 feet high, elbows on ground), and side planks. I will do some sets of a variation of crunches or sit ups different from Tuesday as well.
Saturday - Upper and lower body exercises like Wednesday, except different exercises from Wednesday.
Sunday - Rest
I don't have a gym membership. This was just mostly due to school and work schedules making it difficult to fit into my day, as well as being a broke college student. Being able to do these things at home just made it more likely that I would actually do it early in the morning vs telling myself I'll drive to the gym after work etc.
I'd also like to add more actual heavy weight lifting into this. I'm not a big guy and never have been (5'7, 130 lbs).
Also, is there any significant benefits to having two days of rest vs one? As in set up a schedule going Monday thru Friday and take the weekend off.
I was down with you all the way up to the point where you said less guns. I am over 50, exercise regularly and own and buy lots of guns and plan to continue that practice.
Be prepared for anything. If the shit hits the fan and your larding around with 20-50 extra pounds. You'll be one of the first to go......
I weigh today, the same as I did when I graduated high school after 4 years on the wrestling team and 2 as its captain.
I was down with you all the way up to the point where you said less guns. I am over 50, exercise regularly and own and buy lots of guns and plan to continue that practice.
Be prepared for anything. If the shit hits the fan and your larding around with 20-50 extra pounds. You'll be one of the first to go......
I weight today, the same as I did when I graduated high school after 4 years on the wrestling team and 2 as its captain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R5JPO9QC98
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R5JPO9QC98
Ha! Yep that’s about the truth isn’t it.....
Mr. Goodtimes
12-16-17, 20:16
I was down with you all the way up to the point where you said less guns. I am over 50, exercise regularly and own and buy lots of guns and plan to continue that practice.
Be prepared for anything. If the shit hits the fan and your larding around with 20-50 extra pounds. You'll be one of the first to go......
I weigh today, the same as I did when I graduated high school after 4 years on the wrestling team and 2 as its captain.
Buy all the guns as your budget allows. The point was that people who can’t afford both need to prioritize quality training and a couple of quality firearms over buying more garbage.
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Mr. Goodtimes
12-16-17, 20:17
This is a good thread. I had a couple questions I wanted to ask out of curiosity.
How many days a week are you guys putting into running? Whether long distance, or high intensity sprints. I understand that weight lifting exercise is important, but I've always prioritized running in my exercise.
My workout schedule has been more or less the following:
Monday - 5 to 7 mile run
Tuesday - Body weight exercises. I change these up, but one example would be: plank for 10 minutes, legs held straight with knees locked 6 inches above ground for 10 minutes, side planks at 5 minutes per side. Sit ups.
Wednesday - Upper and lower body exercise. These are also changed up every time, but another example: pull ups with backpack (I put an 8 lb weight in the backpack and one liter of water). Five sets of 7 reps with a 10 second rest between sets. 75 push ups with same backpack on. Five sets: first set is 30 push ups, then hold in up position for 10 seconds. Do 15 push ups and hold in up position for 10 seconds. Do three more sets of 10 push ups with 10 second hold in up position. I'll do three other exercises of something for five sets each, only 10 second rest between sets.
Thursday - 3 mile run. This one is mostly all steep uphills with few short flats in between. I live in an area with a lot of hills.
Friday - Repeat Tuesday's workout, but change it up. For example, if I did plank and legs 6 inches off ground Tuesday, then I will do inverted plank (feet on edge of bed about 2 to 3 feet high, elbows on ground), and side planks. I will do some sets of a variation of crunches or sit ups different from Tuesday as well.
Saturday - Upper and lower body exercises like Wednesday, except different exercises from Wednesday.
Sunday - Rest
I don't have a gym membership. This was just mostly due to school and work schedules making it difficult to fit into my day, as well as being a broke college student. Being able to do these things at home just made it more likely that I would actually do it early in the morning vs telling myself I'll drive to the gym after work etc.
I'd also like to add more actual heavy weight lifting into this. I'm not a big guy and never have been (5'7, 130 lbs).
Also, is there any significant benefits to having two days of rest vs one? As in set up a schedule going Monday thru Friday and take the weekend off.
I workout 4 days a week following a 2 on 1 off schedule. I do strength on the first day and conditioning on the second day, take a day off and repeat. I follow a strength biased program.
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I workout 4 days a week following a 2 on 1 off schedule. I do strength on the first day and conditioning on the second day, take a day off and repeat. I follow a strength biased program.
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Gotcha.
I've been wanting to shift my routine towards being more strength biased. Also have been wanting to change up my conditioning/running days from paced long distance to shorter sprints.
Only problem I have with the more intense sprints is they tend to be easier to cause injury. Never anything too serious, but a strain or so that makes me take a week or two off from the running.
This is a good thread. I had a couple questions I wanted to ask out of curiosity.
How many days a week are you guys putting into running? Whether long distance, or high intensity sprints. I understand that weight lifting exercise is important, but I've always prioritized running in my exercise.
My workout schedule has been more or less the following:
Monday - 5 to 7 mile run
Tuesday - Body weight exercises. I change these up, but one example would be: plank for 10 minutes, legs held straight with knees locked 6 inches above ground for 10 minutes, side planks at 5 minutes per side. Sit ups.
Wednesday - Upper and lower body exercise. These are also changed up every time, but another example: pull ups with backpack (I put an 8 lb weight in the backpack and one liter of water). Five sets of 7 reps with a 10 second rest between sets. 75 push ups with same backpack on. Five sets: first set is 30 push ups, then hold in up position for 10 seconds. Do 15 push ups and hold in up position for 10 seconds. Do three more sets of 10 push ups with 10 second hold in up position. I'll do three other exercises of something for five sets each, only 10 second rest between sets.
Thursday - 3 mile run. This one is mostly all steep uphills with few short flats in between. I live in an area with a lot of hills.
Friday - Repeat Tuesday's workout, but change it up. For example, if I did plank and legs 6 inches off ground Tuesday, then I will do inverted plank (feet on edge of bed about 2 to 3 feet high, elbows on ground), and side planks. I will do some sets of a variation of crunches or sit ups different from Tuesday as well.
Saturday - Upper and lower body exercises like Wednesday, except different exercises from Wednesday.
Sunday - Rest
I don't have a gym membership. This was just mostly due to school and work schedules making it difficult to fit into my day, as well as being a broke college student. Being able to do these things at home just made it more likely that I would actually do it early in the morning vs telling myself I'll drive to the gym after work etc.
I'd also like to add more actual heavy weight lifting into this. I'm not a big guy and never have been (5'7, 130 lbs).
Also, is there any significant benefits to having two days of rest vs one? As in set up a schedule going Monday thru Friday and take the weekend off.
That's not a bad routine; similar to mine. You don't need a gym or to lift weights, unless you just want to.
As I have gotten older (I am 49) I have significantly cut back the amount of distance I run, and the body weight exercises I do as a "circuit" or HIT/HIIT-type stuff.
As for days off, there is a benefit for having two days off following long runs.
Mr. Goodtimes
12-18-17, 10:55
Gotcha.
I've been wanting to shift my routine towards being more strength biased. Also have been wanting to change up my conditioning/running days from paced long distance to shorter sprints.
Only problem I have with the more intense sprints is they tend to be easier to cause injury. Never anything too serious, but a strain or so that makes me take a week or two off from the running.
Shifting towards strength training is a good great idea. Solid foundational strength will literally make you better at everything else. In regards to sprints... To avoid injury make sure you’re adequately warmed up and that your technique is correct. A lot of running injuries are related to incorrect or sloppy technique.
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Mr. Goodtimes
12-18-17, 11:05
That's not a bad routine; similar to mine. You don't need a gym or to lift weights, unless you just want to.
Chuck, I feel like that pretty bad advice. While people don’t need to lift weights in order to see tangible benefits from physical activity, a good strength training program provides benefits far and above what can be achieved without. The only reason one should not lift weights is if they have a physical condition which precludes them from doing so. Pretty much every professional athlete in the world is on some sort of strength training program that involves weights, If the only reason to lift weights was because one wanted to then that wouldn’t be the case.
Telling someone that they don’t need to lift weights unless they want to is not only incorrect, but selling them short.
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There are people on this forum that don't lift weights?
Official Kremlin Transmission
Good read over these last 8 pages...
Started back working out about 6 months ago.
One of my kids was asking me about what's the most amount of push-ups/pull-ups I've ever done; apparently they had some sort of physical fitness test in gym class.
I told her that I once could do 35 pull ups and 75 push ups.
So that naturally progressed into "how many can you do now, Dad?"
Couldn't do 10.
I felt like throwing up (out of disgust at how I'd let myself go; that elbow surgery was years ago now, no longer a viable excuse)
Now I'm slowly progressing, which is probably a good idea given that I'm nearing 40.
25 push ups every morning, I keep a 30lb dumbell by my desk and do a few reps of curls throughout the day, and I don't sit at my desk as much as I used to.
I've already started sleeping better and have less back pain.
I need to find a good way to get in some cardio as running is a no go for me.
edit: Less guns? No way... gotta draw the line somewhere!!!
If you have the opportunity, swimming is great cardio and doesn't tax your joints.
A more commonly available option is a rowing machine.
Chuck, I feel like that pretty bad advice. While people don’t need to lift weights in order to see tangible benefits from physical activity, a good strength training program provides benefits far and above what can be achieved without. The only reason one should not lift weights is if they have a physical condition which precludes them from doing so. Pretty much every professional athlete in the world is on some sort of strength training program that involves weights, If the only reason to lift weights was because one wanted to then that wouldn’t be the case.
Telling someone that they don’t need to lift weights unless they want to is not only incorrect, but selling them short.
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If you want to disagree with me take it to a PM. Suffice it to say there are more ways to skin a cat and achieve overall health, some of those ways will never involve stepping into a gym or lifting a weight.
If a fitness routine includes lifting weights at the gym, that is fine, plenty evidence to support it. There is also evidence to support a fitness routine without it. So forgive me if I feel as disingenuous to try to sell gym memberships.
Mr. Goodtimes
12-18-17, 21:47
If you want to disagree with me take it to a PM. Suffice it to say there are more ways to skin a cat and achieve overall health, some of those ways will never involve stepping into a gym or lifting a weight.
If a fitness routine includes lifting weights at the gym, that is fine, plenty evidence to support it. There is also evidence to support a fitness routine without it. So forgive me if I feel as disingenuous to try to sell gym memberships.
Chuck you came into my thread and contradicted pretty much everything I said, so, really it was you that disagreed with me, and this doesn’t have to go to PM. I would love for you to show me how never stepping foot in a gym can produce the same results as someone who follows a well programmed strength and conditioning program.
I specifically stated that one can achieve overall health without a weight room, but it’s not fair to tell someone that the only reason to lift weight is only “because they want to.” That would mean that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever to strength training with weights, and that’s not only simply not true, but far from the truth.
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Mr. Goodtimes
12-18-17, 21:54
Just completed what I call the, “Gimme a minute.” Workout, because that’s all anyone says when they do it with me:
5 minutes rowing at maximum resistance, keeping a 2:30/500m minimum pace the entire time.
25 36kg Kettlebell Swings
1/4 mile run.
Tonight I did 4 sets in 35min 47sec,
In college I would do 8 sets in 1:05. My main problem is walking over to the treadmill and having it spin up. In college there was a track so I could just run.
Try it out! Post your times! It’s a great workout.
What’s the standard metric? 4 rounds? 8 rounds? Or something in between? I’m assuming the workout is done “X rounds for time” and not “max rounds in X amount of time?”
The workout looks simple and good and I’d like to do it but first I’d like to know if there’s a set metric/standard.
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Chuck you came into my thread and contradicted pretty much everything I said, so, really it was you that disagreed with me, and this doesn’t have to go to PM. I would love for you to show me how never stepping foot in a gym can produce the same results as someone who follows a well programmed strength and conditioning program.
I specifically stated that one can achieve overall health without a weight room, but it’s not fair to tell someone that the only reason to lift weight is only “because they want to.” That would mean that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever to strength training with weights, and that’s not only simply not true, but far from the truth.
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Fair enough. I think I misunderstood you, you may or may not have misunderstood me. I should have clarified, I should have said one can get fit and lose weight without entering a gym. Yes I know the data, because most everything I do is driven by data and studies, so I am fully aware of the data surrounding weight training. My point is that to become fit and to lose weight can take many roads, if you want to use weight training to do that that is fine but you don't need to unless that is just part of what you want to do.
Again, I'm speaking about overall fitness and weight loss, and that is all....not weight-related strength training and its benefits/negatives.
In the spirit of declaring a modus vivendi, I will drive on, and wish you a good Christmas.
I’m not missing your point, I completely understand it. Someone with MS obviously can’t be held to the same standard as an otherwise healthy adult. I understand genetics is a thing and people with debilitating diseases exist, all I’m saying is that as a percentage, not many people have these legitimate debilitating diseases, yet use “genetics” as a cop out.
Those standards are not the minimums for being considered fit. They are a general guidelines for someone to shoot for on their quest to getting better. You’re discussing sport specific training and specialization. These guidelines are general guidelines for a well rounded athlete, not a specialized athlete.
Those standards are mostly picked from a guide that’s posted on the wall of my gym which outlines standards for beginner, intermediate, advanced and elite level athletes. Most of those standards are from the intermediate to advanced portion. Some of the “advanced” standards I felt were a little low.
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Coming back in here... thanks for the replies.
Fitness is relative with each individual. So yes its good to have that standard/baseline of fitness. But in reality every person's fitness level and type will be different. One person might be able to do an Ironman, but can't shoulder press his own weight or do 20 pullups. That doesn't mean he isn't fit.
As far as genetics, I'm not just talking about genetic diseases but one's individual genetic makeup. E.g. a 6ft basktaball player may be able to easily dunk while a 4ft person cannot. This is plain genetics. No getting around that. when you're short, you're short. That was the point I was making.
Anyway, carry on.
Chuck, I feel like that pretty bad advice. While people don’t need to lift weights in order to see tangible benefits from physical activity, a good strength training program provides benefits far and above what can be achieved without. The only reason one should not lift weights is if they have a physical condition which precludes them from doing so. Pretty much every professional athlete in the world is on some sort of strength training program that involves weights, If the only reason to lift weights was because one wanted to then that wouldn’t be the case.
Telling someone that they don’t need to lift weights unless they want to is not only incorrect, but selling them short.
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Great OP and thread! I started a similar one on another forum. Exercise being only seen as a means to help lose weight drives me nuts! (or to build muscle only for the sake of looks) If you are going to put any time in to doing any exercise, why not make it actually useful and improve your fitness and performance instead of mindless exercise machines?
I also disagree that lifting "weights" is needed. Our muscles don't know what is providing the resistance or why they are being forced to contract. One can develop world-class levels of functional strength without ever lifting a weight and certainly don't need a gym. Strength training=very important. "Weights," just a type of tool for strength training, there are others.
Until someone can do one arm pull ups for multiple sets/reps, pistol squats, one arm (strict form) pushups, handstand push ups etc. again for multiple sets of 5-10 reps....they haven't begun to explore the limits of just body weight.
Contrary to popular opinion, bodyweight training as a main form of training is for more advanced athletes such as gymnasts, rather than being an entry point. We can all blame gym class and military PT for this misconception, I guess.
The great thing about lifting weights is that you can start light and increase the load in a linear, incremental fashion.
There is no equivalent way of gradually increasing the load in, for example, a pullup unless you're already strong enough to do several weighted pullups, which very few people that are not already athletic can do.
Bodyweight training is great, though. It's just not as beginner-friendly, and especially not for those who still have a lot of body fat to shed. In that case it's just demoralizing rather than helpful.
Contrary to popular opinion, bodyweight training as a main form of training is for more advanced athletes such as gymnasts, rather than being an entry point. We can all blame gym class and military PT for this misconception, I guess.
The great thing about lifting weights is that you can start light and increase the load in a linear, incremental fashion.
There is no equivalent way of gradually increasing the load in, for example, a pullup unless you're already strong enough to do several weighted pullups, which very few people that are not already athletic can do.
Bodyweight training is great, though. It's just not as beginner-friendly, and especially not for those who still have a lot of body fat to shed. In that case it's just demoralizing rather than helpful.
End of the day, the goals dictate the training. Personally, I look to use all and any tools at my disposal to efficiently achieve the desired goals. Some thoughts on the current "functional training" thing via BBC:
Just What the Hell is ‘Functional Training’?
[What’s So Functional About It?] (http://www.breachbangclear.com/functional-training/)
Contrary to popular opinion, bodyweight training as a main form of training is for more advanced athletes such as gymnasts, rather than being an entry point. We can all blame gym class and military PT for this misconception, I guess.
The great thing about lifting weights is that you can start light and increase the load in a linear, incremental fashion.
There is no equivalent way of gradually increasing the load in, for example, a pullup unless you're already strong enough to do several weighted pullups, which very few people that are not already athletic can do.
Bodyweight training is great, though. It's just not as beginner-friendly, and especially not for those who still have a lot of body fat to shed. In that case it's just demoralizing rather than helpful.
It's extremely beginner friendly, just need some space, your body and a bar! Of course it can be made easier or harder, it is called a regression or a progression. My wife is doing "aussie" pull ups right now (under a hip height bar) as well as "assisted" pull ups, using her feet on a chair. She started with flexed hangs and active hangs for time.
Let's use the push up as an example. Regressions: push up standing against a wall. Push up on a counter. Push up from the knees. Regular push up. Progressions: Close hand push up. Offset push up (one hand on a basketball-favor the other side). Archer push up (one arm straight). One-arm push up. This list is by no means inclusive. There are many more variations as well as explosive ones. Clapping push ups, Supermans etc.
You can regress and progress any body weight exercise in the same way. They can all go from "grandma" to elite.
Check out "Convict Conditioning" and "Get Strong" as examples. https://www.dragondoor.com/shop-by-department/books/
From Aaron Barruga today, quite in line with our topic here:
1. GRAVITATE TOWARDS YOUR WEAKNESSES.
The greatest display of heart this year was at our tactical marksmanship courses. These classes place a large emphasis on athleticism with a firearm, which results in a lot of sprinting on the range.
For some shooters, this is a departure from their routine of static marksmanship exercises. For others, they’re pushed completely outside of their comfort zone because they’ve neglected the physical fitness aspects of being a tactical professional. Midway through each course is when the quitters start making excuses. “Hey, my hamstring is bothering me.” Or, “…I had surgery on this knee a few years ago.”
There is a difference between legitimate pain—which attempting to push through encourages injury—and the self-busing of ego when perceived abilities are not matched by actual performance in training. Typically, the shooter with the most trinkets on his gun and the most unnecessary gear on his kit is the first to make excuses. Their lack of heart is not because they lack coordination or physical ability. It is because these individuals are conditioned to invest in things, not themselves.
On the opposite end of the spectrum is the shooter that lacks any natural athletic ability and is flat out overweight. Watching these individuals push through discomfort to achieve heightened levels of performance is truly inspiring.
You cannot buy a gadget to improve your resilience. There is no trinket that teaches you how to handle failure. All of this comes from within, and is often free of charge.
https://guerrillaapproach.com/the-five-most-important-lessons-of-2017/
The four other lessons are also great, I encourage everyone to give Aaron Barruga a click and read his stuff.
Thanks for the link Joffe, definitely a good read
Eurodriver
01-01-18, 10:46
From Aaron Barruga today, quite in line with our topic here:
https://guerrillaapproach.com/the-five-most-important-lessons-of-2017/
The four other lessons are also great, I encourage everyone to give Aaron Barruga a click and read his stuff.
“It is because these individuals are conditioned to invest in things, not themselves.”
A-freaking-men.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtIDxwi1nhEkwLqCcnSrwpA
A good youtube channel (NSCA) for those interested in strength and conditioning
Strict OHP with your own body weight is far above what I would call a minimum standard. It is WAY out of line with "squat your body weight 10x".
Or maybe I'm just weak in that dept?
Based on the strength charts though...that is considered Advanced level.
https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/shoulder-press
grizzlyblake
01-13-18, 10:21
Based on my lifts those standards look reasonable. I'm 150lb and am right at advanced on everything.
Based on my lifts those standards look reasonable. I'm 150lb and am right at advanced on everything.
Leverages matter, too, though. I don't think that can be ignored. If you're 150# and 6' tall, then you're moving that weight a LONG ways on your reps. If you're 150# and 5'6", then you're not doing nearly the work. That's t he trouble with "standards".
Standards...for what?
Train for the mission.
grizzlyblake
01-13-18, 11:25
Relative to each respective body the 5'6" and 6' guy are moving the weight the same distance for the lift.
Run N Shoot
01-13-18, 19:35
OP- I think you are dead on. There is really not much else to say after that.
Relative to each respective body the 5'6" and 6' guy are moving the weight the same distance for the lift.
Right, but if you move 315# 16" vs 20", for a set of 10 squats, the guy with the larger Rom did 25% more work, at the same body weight...
I'm just curious who here truly meets the "minimum" for a strict ohp of their body weight. My guess is not most.
grizzlyblake
01-13-18, 20:30
Yeah but us 5'6", 150lb guys are further handicapped because our small feet and hands mean we must impart much higher psi through our feet and much higher grip strength on the bar for heavy deadlifts compared to the 6' 150lb guys with big feet and hands.
Kidding. I get what you're saying but I've just never heard that argument before.
Yeah but us 5'6", 150lb guys are further handicapped because our small feet and hands mean we must impart much higher psi through our feet and much higher grip strength on the bar for heavy deadlifts compared to the 6' 150lb guys with big feet and hands.
Kidding. I get what you're saying but I've just never heard that argument before.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/overcoming-lousy-leverages-1
https://www.t-nation.com/training/overcoming-lousy-leverages-2
NOTANASSHOLE
02-21-18, 22:28
Seriously dudes, train for the physical fight as much or more than the gun fight. I'm 27 and need a full shoulder reconstruction and surgery on my lumbar spine because I got my ass handed to me at work by somebody in better shape. If I come out of these surgeries able to lift again I will never take another off day.
Yeah but us 5'6", 150lb guys are further handicapped because our small feet and hands mean we must impart much higher psi through our feet and much higher grip strength on the bar for heavy deadlifts compared to the 6' 150lb guys with big feet and hands.
Kidding. I get what you're saying but I've just never heard that argument before.
Stefanie Cohen is like 120 and pulls 500.
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I'm just curious who here truly meets the "minimum" for a strict ohp of their body weight. My guess is not most.
That's why the standards are not ideal for everyone. Even at my fittest point when I was younger, I was only at the Intermediate level on that OHP chart. But I could run sub-7min mile, do 15 pull-ups, 50 pushups, and play basketball for 2hrs straight.
Sure it may be a good baseline, but its not all about the weight, rep count, time etc.
Fitness is a holistic subject. Each person should train for what they intend to do, not just blindly follow some standards.
A basketball player is not gonna train or have the same type of fitness as a marathon runner or body builder. Everyone is different.
Overall fitness is important, not meeting some standards. Unless you are going for a specific goal such as Military, Olympics, etc.
Stefanie Cohen is like 120 and pulls 500.
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Again, different kind of training. While pulling 500 is great, its not everyone's goal nor should it be. Its a very specific goal for her, and should not be compared to everyone else.
ginzomatic
03-08-18, 15:49
Seriously dudes, train for the physical fight as much or more than the gun fight. I'm 27 and need a full shoulder reconstruction and surgery on my lumbar spine because I got my ass handed to me at work by somebody in better shape. If I come out of these surgeries able to lift again I will never take another off day.
look into stem cell injections
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