View Full Version : Why Ford Sucks (advice needed, venting..)
Going to vent, then advice welcome:
Back story: never owned US made car. Drove just about every brand of Japanese car out there since 83, with no major complaints. I decided perhaps it was time to give a US company a try and my research suggested Ford the best of them. GF got a C Max, I got an explorer. Explorer seemed like a solid vehicle until at 20k miles it started to suffer some mysterious electrical problem, the worst of which manifests itself by hitting the gas peddle and nothing happens. The revs are there, it's just nadda between transmission and the engine. It can last a few seconds to a few minutes and when it does finally engage, the car leaps forward similar to what happens when you drop the clutch hard on a manual car. Other things are rear view cam coming on when going forward, cruise control shutting off for no reason etc. Worst, and potentially dangerous is the dead motor thing. Left me dead in the water in an intersection the other day.
Brought it to Ford service three times now. First two times, being (apparently) an electrical issue, and an intermittent one at that, of course they couldn't reproduce the problem or fix it. Third time was the charm as I walked the tech out and it did it for him in person, so he confirmed it and said he thought it was electrical vs a transmission issue. Once they got it int he shop, you guessed it, they could not reproduce it, and no fix.
Now I'm getting pissed. Many phone calls, etc later to Ford corporate, them generally doing jack shit to help me, etc, they then ask me to bring it in for a 4th time!
I said I would, if they would at least tell me what they would happen after #4 visit and no fix: replace the car, let me out of the lease, etc of after #4 if was not fixed. Their response was "we will evaluate that afterward in a 'good faith review'"
I responded, "so if after #4 and nothing is fixed, we go onto #5?"
Hence a total non answer and yet, I should bring it in for #4 with zero commitment from them, so at that point I declined knowing it was a waste of time and all they are doing is trying to wear me down and give up. I have 7 months left on the lease.
Of course my sense of right and wrong says simply stop paying them and tell them to come get their POS car and sue me if they don't like it. Problem there is, they can ruin my credit which is very good.
I could pay off the lease (as much as that idea grinds my f-ing gears) and just walk away from it and Ford altogether. That's the simple but most $ route. They have me screwed because with that issue, can't really trade it in to another brand (at 6 months you can easily be roled into another lease with other brands) because it's got this electrical issues.
So, it appears I'm stuck with Ford until the lease run out (which is me paying for a defective car), pay the lease off and walk, which is me throwing $ in the toilet on a defective car. Getting an attorney involved at this juncture does not seem a wise investment either.
Any other options you can think of?
Yes, n =1 experience, but that will be my first and last US car. Fu*$ Ford.
Maybe contact a local consumer advocacy journalist and get them to write an article. Ford might be thrilled to prove how great their customer service is...
Otherwise I'd send every news outlet an opinion letter that they can publish and I'd be sending letters to every Ford executive. This is Ford's problem to solve and if they aren't responsive pretty quickly you should get a nice window shade detailing what you are dealing with. Easy to remove at the end of your lease.
Your already mad now get even!
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Maybe contact a local consumer advocacy journalist and get them to write an article. Ford might be thrilled to prove how great their customer service is...
Otherwise I'd send every news outlet an opinion letter that they can publish and I'd be sending letters to every Ford executive. This is Ford's problem to solve and if they aren't responsive pretty quickly you should get a nice window shade detailing what you are dealing with. Easy to remove at the end of your lease.
Your already mad now get even!
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All good advice. Thanx!
Doc Safari
10-18-17, 13:11
FORD:
1. An acronym meaning "Found On Road Dead"
2. An acronym meaning "Fix or Repair Daily"
Nuff Said
Is there a lemon law where you live?
Whatever you do don't ruin your credit. That will cost you more in the long run.
I would pay it off and trade it in. Get out of it ASAP and be done. Writing letters will probably get you nowhere.
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FORD:
1. An acronym meaning "Found On Road Dead"
2. An acronym meaning "Fix or Repair Daily"
Nuff Said
Is there a lemon law where you live?Lemon law applies to having the same problem fixed several times with no results. You can have 45 different problems and it won't qualify for lemon law. However each state is slightly different. For instance....Pa lemon law covers only 1 year, 12k miles or the term of expressed warranty, whichever comes first
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I've had similar experiences with Ford. I'll never buy another one and I tell everyone I know not to buy one.
Wife bought an Escape. A/C worked intermittently. Took it in for repair, and they told us it was fixed. It wasn't. Took it in five more times. They never fixed it. Got all the way up to the West Coast Regional Manger. I told her the car was a lemon and we just wanted a replacement, since after 6 tries they clearly were not going to be able to fix it. She accused me of making it all up. For what purpose, I asked? Why would anyone want all this hassle? She matter of fact told me: "We've done everything we are going to do, and you can sue us if you don't like it.", and promptly hung up on me. Nicole was her name. Couldn't get anyone higher up on the phone after that, and really didn't feel like taking up litigation as a new hobby. Wife was literally getting sick over it, so she traded it back in to Ford for a new one and we took a loss of several thousand, but kept our sanity. The second one was ok, but didn't hold up well in the long run, so she bought a Rav4 instead.
I've got an '05 E350 Diesel. Nothing but problems from day one. And I've not had any of the problems that people complain about with the 6.0 engine. A/C grenaded at 34K. Literally blew up. All sorts of door, weatherstripping problems, auto-locking and other issues. Tranny blew up at 75K. The thing rattles and squeaks so loud I have to use earphones to have a phone conversation while driving. It leaks when it rains. Can't park it nose up on a hill or it drips diesel fuel. I've had to replace the duel alternators and batteries every two to three years since I've had it. POS.
I can understand that any mechanical device will have some issues. What I can't understand is poor customer service and not backing your product. I don't have these problems with any of my Toyotas. Ford can suck it! Fix or repair daily.
Wiil,
If you take the vehicle in again have the technician ride with you with a code scanner hooked into the car. That thing should be throwing some kind of code. It sounds like it is one of the electical switches (relays) for the transmission.
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I've had similar experiences with Ford. I'll never buy another one and I tell everyone I know not to buy one.
Wife bought an Escape. A/C worked intermittently. Took it in for repair, and they told us it was fixed. It wasn't. Took it in five more times. They never fixed it. Got all the way up to the West Coast Regional Manger. I told her the car was a lemon and we just wanted a replacement, since after 6 tries they clearly were not going to be able to fix it. She accused me of making it all up. For what purpose, I asked? Why would anyone want all this hassle? She matter of fact told me: "We've done everything we are going to do, and you can sue us if you don't like it.", and promptly hung up on me. Nicole was her name. Couldn't get anyone higher up on the phone after that, and really didn't feel like taking up litigation as a new hobby. Wife was literally getting sick over it, so she traded it back in to Ford for a new one and we took a loss of several thousand, but kept our sanity. The second one was ok, but didn't hold up well in the long run, so she bought a Rav4 instead.
I've got an '05 E350 Diesel. Nothing but problems from day one. And I've not had any of the problems that people complain about with the 6.0 engine. A/C grenaded at 34K. Literally blew up. All sorts of door, weatherstripping problems, auto-locking and other issues. Tranny blew up at 75K. The thing rattles and squeaks so loud I have to use earphones to have a phone conversation while driving. It leaks when it rains. Can't park it nose up on a hill or it drips diesel fuel. I've had to replace the duel alternators and batteries every two to three years since I've had it. POS.
I can understand that any mechanical device will have some issues. What I can't understand is poor customer service and not backing your product. I don't have these problems with any of my Toyotas. Ford can suck it! Fix or repair daily.
Your story does not leave me with confidence things will get any better, but it does confirm it's not an uncommon experience. Guess I have done deciding to do now. Not one Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, etc ever gave me problems. Lesson learned I guess. Will cost me just under 3k to pay off early and walk, but sanity is priceless in my experience.
Wiil,
If you take the vehicle in again have the technician ride with you with a code scanner hooked into the car. That thing should be throwing some kind of code. It sounds like it is one of the electical switches (relays) for the transmission.
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No code. Tec claimed (visit 1-3) they went over that car with all diagnostics they have. Visit 3 they worked with techs as Ford corporate to make sure they looked at everything. Issue is the intermittent nature of it apparently.
I cuss at my Ford 10 times a day.
My next will be a Toyota but meh....part of the fun of a Ford is having something to cuss about.
At least it isnt a Chevy. They are the Pepsi of Cars.
Document when it happens, take out your phone, turn on the video camera and take a video of it. Make sure to get shots of what you feet are doing, what the gauges are doing, and verify out the window its not moving.
Document every time it goes to the dealer. Make clear you feel unsafe in the car.
After you have captured at least two times on video, take it to the dealer. Tell them you want it fixed, or you want a different car. Tell them you feel unsafe and will sue the ver living shit out of them if this ever causes you to have an accident.
If it ever causes you to have an accident sue the shit out of every one and their mother. You will have good evidence and a paper trail.
It sounds like you have a problem either mechanically with the transmission or the computer that controls it. An intermittent problem can not be diagnosed if it is not happening, at my shop we tell customers to bring their car back when its more/perminently broken. Try to break your car. Power brake it, hold down the gas and brake at the same time, it may shut down electronically on a newer car but give it a shot. Do you ever notice something you do that it happens more frequently after? If so do this a lot. Its under warranty, break and they'll fix it.
Ride out your lease, take it as a lesson learned. Then never lease a car again and never buy American again. American cars are crap. I will not be guilted into buying a sub par product because its my patriot duty. I'll buy an American car when they make a decent product. Till then it will remain German cars only for me.
If the Tesla model 3 turns out to be any good it will be the first American car I buy.
What does the VIN start with??
Most of you who are buying non American cars, are buying American cars.
And most of you who think you are buying American cars, are buying non American cars.
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turnburglar
10-18-17, 14:35
After driving the piss out of Ford, Chevy and dodge as Work vehicles, I will only spend my own money on Chevy. They just last longer.
BuzzinSATX
10-18-17, 14:51
I’ve had mixed luck with Fords, but recurring, goofy electrical problems can happen to any brand and are a bear to fix. Have you tried a different Ford shop? That could be a help.
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Document when it happens, take out your phone, turn on the video camera and take a video of it. Make sure to get shots of what you feet are doing, what the gauges are doing, and verify out the window its not moving.
Document every time it goes to the dealer. Make clear you feel unsafe in the car.
After you have captured at least two times on video, take it to the dealer. Tell them you want it fixed, or you want a different car. Tell them you feel unsafe and will sue the ver living shit out of them if this ever causes you to have an accident.
If it ever causes you to have an accident sue the shit out of every one and their mother. You will have good evidence and a paper trail.
It sounds like you have a problem either mechanically with the transmission or the computer that controls it. An intermittent problem can not be diagnosed if it is not happening, at my shop we tell customers to bring their car back when its more/perminently broken. Try to break your car. Power brake it, hold down the gas and brake at the same time, it may shut down electronically on a newer car but give it a shot. Do you ever notice something you do that it happens more frequently after? If so do this a lot. Its under warranty, break and they'll fix it.
Ride out your lease, take it as a lesson learned. Then never lease a car again and never buy American again. American cars are crap. I will not be guilted into buying a sub par product because its my patriot duty. I'll buy an American car when they make a decent product. Till then it will remain German cars only for me.
If the Tesla model 3 turns out to be any good it will be the first American car I buy.
Been trying to get it on vid forever. By taking the phone out, it guarantees the m-fer will not do it. I do have one of the others things it does on vid, but not the main problem. Told them repeatedly the car was dangerous and someone will get hurt if it does that at the wrong time. My GF refuses to drive it currently. Right now, I'll probably ride out the lease as much as that pisses me off.
What does the VIN start with??
Most of you who are buying non American cars, are buying American cars.
And most of you who think you are buying American cars, are buying non American cars.
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IFM5K
When buying Japanese cars, I check the vin to make sure what I'm buying was built in Japan.
SomeOtherGuy
10-18-17, 14:58
Check the lemon law in your state. Both NY and FL should have pro-consumer ones.
Cousin-in-law is a professional mechanic who started at a Ford dealer, and I've read this online also: Ford pays very little for warranty work and tolerates failures to fix, so there is a strong incentive to spend no real time on warranty claims. Same person is now an in-house mechanic for an ambulance service, working on mostly Ford and GM trucks. AFAIK he has little preference between the Big 2, but keep in mind he buys used and will personally fix things, not deal with dealers.
I’ve had mixed luck with Fords, but recurring, goofy electrical problems can happen to any brand and are a bear to fix. Have you tried a different Ford shop? That could be a help.
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I have not. One I have been using is a big regional dealership close by, but I could try another. I just don't want to go #4 and yet have no commitment from Ford at all what happens id that does not work. What then, #5?
Check the lemon law in your state. Both NY and FL should have pro-consumer ones.
Cousin-in-law is a professional mechanic who started at a Ford dealer, and I've read this online also: Ford pays very little for warranty work and tolerates failures to fix, so there is a strong incentive to spend no real time on warranty claims. Same person is now an in-house mechanic for an ambulance service, working on mostly Ford and GM trucks. AFAIK he has little preference between the Big 2, but keep in mind he buys used and will personally fix things, not deal with dealers.
Tricky part here is, purchased in MA.
Coal Dragger
10-18-17, 15:03
As a side affect of my job I spend copious amounts of time in third party transportation taking myself and my conductor to and from trains. For the past 10 years and 9 months I have been in a Chevrolet/GMC Suburban or a Ford Expedition or Excursion at least 4 days a week being taxied to or from a train I'm assigned to operate for the day.
My observations:
The Chevy/GMC Suburbans last longer and have far fewer problems than the Fords.
Suburbans with over 400K on the odometer are very common, plus they also see tons of idle time. I have not seen any of the Fords make it that long before they are sold off or scrapped out.
Maintenance on these vehicles is not up to the standards that a private owner would probably provide.
The GM gen III (LS/Vortex) cam in block small block V8 is damn near indestructible, they will run almost indefinitely it seems.
The 5.4L Triton V8 in the Ford is complete garbage in comparison. Not uncommon to smell antifreeze in the exhaust with only 200K on these. There are a few Ecoboost V6's running around but no long term observations can be made yet.
GM transmissions are also far more reliable than those in the Fords. Transmission problems are the number one reason for the Fords being bad ordered according to the drivers.
Interiors in both wear about as expected, the layout of the GM is more comfortable for rear seat passengers. Plus the Suburbans ride better.
Given a choice to buy a new one, I'd actually gladly take a brand new Suburban with the 6.2L. I wouldn't be interested in a new Expedition at all, although the Ecoboost is an intriguing engine. I'd also be happy with a GM pickup and may go that route when my Toyota Tundra is due for replacement in another 5 years or so.
Ford does not currently produce any passenger car that I would buy. Our last purchase was a 2015 Chevrolet SS, because a 4 door sedan with an LS3 V8, magnetic shocks, Brembo brakes, and a torque vectoring rear diff is farking hilarious. No one else seemed interested in making a fun to drive 4 door that can be acquired for rational amounts of money, and serviced in the hinterlands where we live.
There is an old saying: "never throw away your old rag until you have a new one". And ford has done that repeatedly. The F series trucks with the 7.3L Power stroke engine by Navistar (international harvester) was there greatest engine and out performed GM and Dodge by far. They replaced that engine with a Ford designed 6.4L for there Super Duty trucks, they also replaced the tried and true 4R100 & 6R140 5 speed tow/haul transmission designed by for the 5R110W 6 speed automatic tow/haul transmission designed by Ford. In the last 10 years, Ford trucks have gone down in both performance and reliability. Almost every military truck that is manufactured by Oshkosh, Stewart & Stevenson, AM General, FPI (General Dynamics) has either a CAT, Cummins engine or a Navistar Powerstroke engine. Now Chevrolet uses Duramax (Isuzu) and Allison transmissions and for the last few years have remained on top of the heavy duty truck podium.
SilverBullet432
10-18-17, 18:09
That just sounds like a shitty dealer.. my personal experience was different;
I had my 2010 F150 for a little over a year when the left cylinder head gave out all of a sudden.
Cause: K&N oil filter let in contaminants, and scored the camshaft.
Ford not only repaired my truck under full warranty, but they loaned me a car for the entire time my truck was in the shop.
The only money I paid out of pocket was the oil change they gave the engine.
They recommended I NEVER use K&N oil filters again...
I’ve always driven Fords, and have always caught shit from GM guys for it.
That’s the only “big problem” or problem in general I’ve ever had.
I think Ford did drop the ball on their 11-13 Coyote 5.0 F150s though by putting the alrernator at the bottom. They got rid of 50+ Fords at work because of that issue and went full Silverado 2500’s.
Fords are great, until they stop working as intended, then your story is pretty consistent with everyone else, including my own family has experienced.
We won't be owning another one, even if we like the vehicle.
Some of the horror stories from people who dealt with the CP4 pump failure on their diesel getting stuck with 12k repairs bills are insane. GM fixed their vehicle without many problems, and certainly didn't stick people with the bill.
Any time ive had a minor issue with my ram, it has always been addressed quickly, promptly, and without any issues so long as the problem has been covered by warranty.
That just sounds like a shitty dealer.. my personal experience was different;
I had my 2010 F150 for a little over a year when the left cylinder head gave out all of a sudden.
Cause: K&N oil filter let in contaminants, and scored the camshaft.
Ford not only repaired my truck under full warranty, but they loaned me a car for the entire time my truck was in the shop.
The only money I paid out of pocket was the oil change they gave the engine.
They recommended I NEVER use K&N oil filters again...
I’ve always driven Fords, and have always caught shit from GM guys for it.
That’s the only “big problem” or problem in general I’ve ever had.
I think Ford did drop the ball on their 11-13 Coyote 5.0 F150s though by putting the alrernator at the bottom. They got rid of 50+ Fords at work because of that issue and went full Silverado 2500’s.
Dealers have no say in the matter, it's Ford Corporate that makes the decisions in such matters and who I have been communicating with on the issue.
FlyingHunter
10-18-17, 18:26
Sorry to hear about your bad experience Will. Good luck with finding a solution that works best for you. As a current owner of 4 Fords, two of which are past 300k miles, I've had a great ownership experience which is why I keep going back to the brand.
brushy bill
10-18-17, 18:47
Sorry for your luck with your Ford WillBrink. I used to be a "buy American" guy even though I knew the Japanese were producing much better vehicles and I'd have more repairs/quicker replacement requirement. Anyway, based on what I've experienced, seen, heard, I won't own any more Fords either. I've had fairly good luck with my Silverado (more repairs than I'd like including a new catalytic convertor at about 100K miles). Pretty poor luck with GM cars (Caprice, LeSabre). HORRIBLE luck with VW.
Regardless, due to the bailout, I won't be buying GM or Chrysler/Dodge again. I'm also of the opinion that buying any UAW produced vehicle is akin to writing a check to the DNC. Between bailout and UAW problem, my idea of 'patriotism' in vehicle purchases has changed significantly, leaving me with Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Subaru, and maybe Nissan. I've read that Toyota Tundras have had some issues with transmission, so hopefully they'll get that sorted before I buy. No real info on the new Nissan Titans. Honda/Mazda/Subaru obviously only for cars.
Had it not been for bailout, I'd likely be in for a Suburban and Colorado in near future.
HardToHandle
10-18-17, 19:03
Anecdotal evidence is mostly what is offered here, so I will add my own.
1) 2005 Dodge truck - water pump went out at 50k, they offered to replace it, but the replacement part took six weeks to arrive (during the post-2008 recession), transmission shot at 90k miles
2) 2010 Toyota Corolla - lost 35% of value overnight because they could not get their PR right after a couple women supposedly had unintended acceleration
3) 2011 Ford Escape - pretty impressive except for a failing trunk door latch that cost $450 to replace
4) 2012 GMC Canyon - just a cheapest possible POS with $100 oil changes... That was my last GM, as they just kept squeezing blood from the stone
They are automobiles, the classic depreciating assets. The service is also pretty disappointing with most dealers.
I will likely try Honda next.
There is an old saying: "never throw away your old rag until you have a new one". And ford has done that repeatedly. The F series trucks with the 7.3L Power stroke engine by Navistar (international harvester) was there greatest engine and out performed GM and Dodge by far. They replaced that engine with a Ford designed 6.4L for there Super Duty trucks, they also replaced the tried and true 4R100 & 6R140 5 speed tow/haul transmission designed by for the 5R110W 6 speed automatic tow/haul transmission designed by Ford. In the last 10 years, Ford trucks have gone down in both performance and reliability. Almost every military truck that is manufactured by Oshkosh, Stewart & Stevenson, AM General, FPI (General Dynamics) has either a CAT, Cummins engine or a Navistar Powerstroke engine. Now Chevrolet uses Duramax (Isuzu) and Allison transmissions and for the last few years have remained on top of the heavy duty truck podium.
For such a knowledgeable truck guy you left out Ford's best diesel engine idea of all time, the one that actual replaced the 7.3L Power Stroke, the 6.0L Power Stroke....that one was brilliant. :rolleyes:
NYH1.
Will,
Contact the Florida AG's Consumer affairs division. Let the dealer know you are doing it. I hope you have some record of the time that it did it in the service department. That alone should get it fixed or, better yet replaced.
My mother got scammed pretty bad, I called the folks, told them to let her out of the contract, they gave me the run-a-round, I told them, OK I just want you to know that I've recorded this call, when I hang up I'm calling the consumer affairs division of the Kansas Attorney General's office. I was immediately put on with a supervisor that could do something and mom's money was refunded.
I didn't even have to play the 'they know me' card.
If the threat doesn't get action, follow through and call them (AG), solving consumer issues is one of the way's AG's get re-elected.
That just sounds like a shitty dealer.. my personal experience was different;
I had my 2010 F150 for a little over a year when the left cylinder head gave out all of a sudden.
Cause: K&N oil filter let in contaminants, and scored the camshaft.
Ford not only repaired my truck under full warranty, but they loaned me a car for the entire time my truck was in the shop.
The only money I paid out of pocket was the oil change they gave the engine.
They recommended I NEVER use K&N oil filters again...
I’ve always driven Fords, and have always caught shit from GM guys for it.
That’s the only “big problem” or problem in general I’ve ever had.
I think Ford did drop the ball on their 11-13 Coyote 5.0 F150s though by putting the alrernator at the bottom. They got rid of 50+ Fords at work because of that issue and went full Silverado 2500’s.
They fixed it so good for you. As far as K&N oil filters, they're really good oil filters. They're made by Champion Labs. Good stuff. Their air filters, that's a whole different story.
NYH1.
sundance435
10-18-17, 19:39
Will,
Contact the Florida AG's Consumer affairs division. Let the dealer know you are doing it. I hope you have some record of the time that it did it in the service department. That alone should get it fixed or, better yet replaced.
He said the car was purchased in MA. MA law (or whatever choice of law is in the lease agreement, perhaps even arbitration) would most likely apply - not to say you can't bring suit in Florida (there's no guarantee a Florida court would hear it), but either MA law or the choice of law in the lease agreement is what will apply. I'd suggest getting familiar with the lease agreement if you're considering pursuing legal action. I also agree though with what you expressed earlier that anyone's best/better option is to deal with Ford directly, even though you haven't had luck thus far. You may have to get creative here, e.g. social media. In my experience, in almost any situation where you're the aggrieved party and you're getting resistance from the other side and they believe they have the upper hand, it's best not to throw out words like "media" and "lawsuit" without having a plan to do so - even then, I wouldn't show my hand. It's always the people who threaten legal action that don't end up taking it any further - you have to mean it when you say it and already have a plan in mind.
Will,
Contact the Florida AG's Consumer affairs division. Let the dealer know you are doing it. I hope you have some record of the time that it did it in the service department. That alone should get it fixed or, better yet replaced.
My mother got scammed pretty bad, I called the folks, told them to let her out of the contract, they gave me the run-a-round, I told them, OK I just want you to know that I've recorded this call, when I hang up I'm calling the consumer affairs division of the Kansas Attorney General's office. I was immediately put on with a supervisor that could do something and mom's money was refunded.
I didn't even have to play the 'they know me' card.
If the threat doesn't get action, follow through and call them (AG), solving consumer issues is one of the way's AG's get re-elected.
At Ford corporate? The dealership is out of the decision making process here.
For such a knowledgeable truck guy you left out Ford's best diesel engine idea of all time, the one that actual replaced the 7.3L Power Stroke, the 6.0L Power Stroke....that one was brilliant. :rolleyes:
NYH1.
The 6.0 is what is in my van. They detuned them a bit for some reason in the vans. I never got a reliable answer for why that is, but it is. I was warned about all the engine problems that were likely to occur with the 6.0, but so far so good at 135K.
Dealers have no say in the matter, it's Ford Corporate that makes the decisions in such matters and who I have been communicating with on the issue.
This has been my experience too.
A buddy of mine is a fleet dealer for Ford. He is a nice guy and did everything he could to help, but corporate shut him down at every turn. He, a service advisor, and a service tech at a different dealership all told me that they get "mandates" from corporate and they have to follow them. The mandate at the time of my issue was to reduce warranty service costs by 80%. They were told to simply refuse to do warranty work even when it was warranted. They were told to bully the customers into paying for work that should have been under warranty. They tried it with me a few times and I got real insistent. They caved on everything except the A/C in the first Escape, but even that, they tried to fix it six times under warranty. They just refused to do anything after that. Rather I should say: Corporate refused to do anything after that.
Just like talking people out of voting Democrat, I can't even count how many people I've steered away from buying a Ford. All they had to do was replace the lemon with a car of the same year and type with A/C that worked. What would that have cost them? It would have cost them a lot less than all the business and customers they've lost because that woman has no understanding of how to treat customers.
What does the VIN start with??
Most of you who are buying non American cars, are buying American cars.
And most of you who think you are buying American cars, are buying non American cars.
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I'm pretty sure my current Tacoma was made in Torrance, CA. Love that truck. I had a '97 Tacoma before this one. Loved that one too, but I literally wore it out. I think the '97 was made in Georgia. My first car was a little compact '88 Toyota truck, before they called them "Tacoma".
I'm going to get into the brand debate. I can offer great examples of pretty much all of them, and really horrible of everyone of them as well, both foreign and domestic.
What I will offer is some advice as far as getting into proving your issue. Which I know you don't want to hear, but listen. Coming from someone who spends day in and day out now dealing with various claims, the issue is if you have a third party like myself is that you have to be able to establish some sort of credibility. And I know that just pissed you off Will, but listen, if you are saying the vehicle is doing X, and the dealer is going, it is not and we did tests Q, Y, and Z, and showed no issues, then you need to be able to give me something to refute it. I know you said you have tried to capture it on camera, but, if you don't have anything, any investigator is going to go, "Well the dealer showed they looked for issues and none were found." The law is kind of written in that regard, generally speaking and all things being equal. Even if I think the dealer is being shady, unless I have proof I can't do shit, and trust me there have been many a time I have had more than just a guy feeling, but due to lack of evidence my hands are tied. I'd assume the same from the company since I can only assume that they deal with a lot of people making fraudulent claims, I know I do, so they probably are assuming the worst if you have no proof. End point, get proof somehow. Perhaps this is a point that maybe cars, or at least more cars, need some sort of black box to keep record of issues. I know some cars do keep data on the car as it were since I had a friend take a car to a dealer and get asked why he had it up to 138MPH.
1_click_off
10-18-17, 21:19
If you pay the lease off, you may save the monthly tax they charge. Don’t know.
I would imagine you have the issue on file with them now. I would guess you are in the warranty period as well. Next time the transmission releases from the engine, redline that POS and let it grenade when it engages.
You get a loaner that works, and maybe they replace the faulty electronics when they stab the new transmission.
1_click_off
10-18-17, 21:37
While on the subject of cars....
I bought a Bluetooth OBDII scanner and use my phone to read diagnostics and have the capabilities to erase trouble codes.
I like the torque app for Android devices but not for iOS.
Lots of folks make apps and scanners. Autometer even has an app.
Be careful on scan tool you select as some will only work with their app and some want access to your phone to gather data.
The 6.0 is what is in my van. They detuned them a bit for some reason in the vans. I never got a reliable answer for why that is, but it is. I was warned about all the engine problems that were likely to occur with the 6.0, but so far so good at 135K.
I'm glad it's worked out for you. I'm a gasser guy myself. However, a lot of my friends and guys I work with run/ran diesels from all three brands. The 6.0 PS and the lack of service, repair (under warranty), flat out runaround from Ford on top of the extreme down time turned them off of Ford ever since.
When there's a foot of snow in someone's driveway or parking lot (we measure it in feet here), they don't want to hear that your new $55k plow truck with 11k miles on it is broke down again and in for warranty work and they're not fixing it. Or that your new tow truck with their car on the back also need to be towed. Or that you can't get the skid steer to the job site. Or the load of hay delivered ect....
Good luck my friend, NYH1.
For what some of us use our trucks for, there's no alternative to a domestic 3/4 or 1 ton pickup truck. There's no Japper or Euro pickup truck that I'm aware of that you tow 15.5k lbs., haul 3500 lbs. in the bed or hang a 1200 lbs. plow on the front off.
For such a knowledgeable truck guy you left out Ford's best diesel engine idea of all time, the one that actual replaced the 7.3L Power Stroke, the 6.0L Power Stroke....that one was brilliant. :rolleyes:
NYH1.
We used ford trucks for our fleet from 1976 to 2010 until we switched over to the Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD in 2011 after our Fords had to be serviced almost every month. The new LTZ Chevys are nice for pulling 14-20k pound goosenecks and come pretty well equipped for work trucks, navigation, sat radio, leather, dual climate, and lots of places to plug in regular electronics like laptop, phone, CB etc. The Chevys cost more to maintain than the Fords we had but we run these trucks to about 350k miles. The 6.0L was to meet Obamas tough new emission standards- that engine sucked!!!!
Coal Dragger
10-18-17, 22:28
Uhhh..... dude the 6.0 was around (and performing poorly) well before Obama was in office.
We used ford trucks for our fleet from 1976 to 2010 until we switched over to the Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD in 2011 after our Fords had to be serviced almost every month. The new LTZ Chevys are nice for pulling 14-20k pound goosenecks and come pretty well equipped for work trucks, navigation, sat radio, leather, dual climate, and lots of places to plug in regular electronics like laptop, phone, CB etc. The Chevys cost more to maintain than the Fords we had but we run these trucks to about 350k miles. The 6.0L was to meet Obamas tough new emission standards- that engine sucked!!!!
So in 2003 when Ford released the 6.0L Power Choke to replace the 7.3L Power Stroke, it was because of then Illinois State Senator Barack Obama's tough new emission standards? Interesting. At least we agree that engine sucked. ;)
NYH1.
Uhhh..... dude the 6.0 was around (and performing poorly) well before Obama was in office.
Diesel guys know this and I'm really not one. Power Strokes 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7 in that order.
NYH1.
eightmillimeter
10-18-17, 23:03
I know some cars do keep data on the car as it were since I had a friend take a car to a dealer and get asked why he had it up to 138MPH.
The newer they are the more they store. If you "try" to break it by redlining it when it's slipping between gears it will probably record it and then they will just say you broke it on purpose.
If you ever want to see a tech spit chew all over a laptop we had a 16 Dodge Charger that died during a pursuit, had to stop, shut it off, and restart it to get going again. Check engine light wouldn't go away so we took it in. Tech about shit himself when the code said something along the lines of "accelerator pedal position sensor at 100% for too long of duration"
Coal Dragger
10-19-17, 03:51
Diesel guys know this and I'm really not one. Power Strokes 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7 in that order.
NYH1.
The 7.3 was a good motor but once GM developed the Duramax with Isuzu and released it, Ford ended up needing to scramble to compete. Dodge did too at least to an extent, but the 5.9L Cummins had the potential to make a lot more power with upgraded fuel management, and other tweaks. The old International 7.3L Ford used wasn't so easy to bring to Duramax power levels and still maintain durability. So Ford and International/Navistar gave their buyers the 6.0L Powerstroke, I think an argument could be made that it was a poor stopgap until Ford could develop a competitive Diesel engine.
The 6.4L at least was known to be pretty reliable, but too thirsty and down on power compared to the Duramax and Cummins in actual use.
The new 6.7L seems pretty well regarded by friends who have them.
All that said, the Duramax and Allison transmission combo in the 3/4 and 1 ton market changed the segment radically. In 2001 the Duramax at 300hp and 520lb-ft with a 5 speed automatic transmission as durable as the Allison were mind blowing for a pickup. Keep in mind the 7.3L Powerstroke in 2001 made only 250hp, and the 5.9L Cummins that model year made 245hp. To this day GM's latest versions of this pairing still seem to handily out perform the Ford and Ram offerings in real world performance.
Uhhh..... dude the 6.0 was around (and performing poorly) well before Obama was in office.
2003-2016 but I'm talking about the VT365 2nd generation. They quit putting them in trucks in 2007 and only used in vans till 2010- ironically it was listed as Wards 10 Best engines in 2003. The Maxxforce 7 6.4L sequential turbo that came after the 6.0L was just a little better and made almost 650lbs of torque. But that engine drank fuel faster than jet engines. I don't know why but Isuzu and Daewoo build the best diesel truck engines in the world. Daewoo manufactures engines for Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Volkswagen; Isuzu makes engines for Caterpillar, MAN, FMC, GM, Freightliner, General Electric and TUG- of coarse these are all commercial grade engines not consumer.
Whatever you do don't ruin your credit. That will cost you more in the long run.
I would pay it off and trade it in. Get out of it ASAP and be done. Writing letters will probably get you nowhere.
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This^^^
Don’t stop paying and tell them to f-off.
Ask me how I know. [emoji53]
I'm going to get into the brand debate. I can offer great examples of pretty much all of them, and really horrible of everyone of them as well, both foreign and domestic.
What I will offer is some advice as far as getting into proving your issue. Which I know you don't want to hear, but listen. Coming from someone who spends day in and day out now dealing with various claims, the issue is if you have a third party like myself is that you have to be able to establish some sort of credibility. And I know that just pissed you off Will, but listen, if you are saying the vehicle is doing X, and the dealer is going, it is not and we did tests Q, Y, and Z, and showed no issues, then you need to be able to give me something to refute it.
Per the OP, on the third visit the tech witnessed it with his own two eyes right in front of me while sitting in the passenger seat, and confirmed it on paper. Don't think one can get much more credibility then that in this situation.
I know you said you have tried to capture it on camera, but, if you don't have anything, any investigator is going to go, "Well the dealer showed they looked for issues and none were found." The law is kind of written in that regard, generally speaking and all things being equal. Even if I think the dealer is being shady, unless I have proof I can't do shit, and trust me there have been many a time I have had more than just a guy feeling, but due to lack of evidence my hands are tied. I'd assume the same from the company since I can only assume that they deal with a lot of people making fraudulent claims, I know I do, so they probably are assuming the worst if you have no proof. End point, get proof somehow. Perhaps this is a point that maybe cars, or at least more cars, need some sort of black box to keep record of issues. I know some cars do keep data on the car as it were since I had a friend take a car to a dealer and get asked why he had it up to 138MPH.
I don't think the dealership is being shady at all. I think they have done their best to locate this problem with the vehicle, but have been unable to reproduce it in the shop. Per OP, I'm even willing to bring it in a 4th time, if Ford will at least tell me me what happens if it's not fixed after visit #4. My interest in capturing it on vid is to put it on social media to show what a POS is this vehicle and add pressure, and perhaps show to an attorney, etc, not confirm to Ford Per se. Their own damn tech did that....
Lemon law applies to having the same problem fixed several times with no results. You can have 45 different problems and it won't qualify for lemon law. However each state is slightly different. For instance....Pa lemon law covers only 1 year, 12k miles or the term of expressed warranty, whichever comes first
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Florida has a provision for multiple problems resulting in a certain number of cumulative days in repair.
Will, get your lease agreement out and read the fine print. There may be a buyback option in there. If so call them and tell them and ask them what the terms would be to exercise that option. The residual value and terms may not be super attractive but it might get you out of a bad vehicle with a lot less harm to you than just not paying the lease.
Florida has a provision for multiple problems resulting in a certain number of cumulative days in repair.
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, after deciding to take it up a notch via social media (and I have a good following and a simple Google search will show I'm well represented on the net) I got an email today saying my case has been kicked up to a regional manager and reviewing my case to assist, etc. Whether it's to placate me for a while etc, I don't know. I really hated to be that guy who has to make threats like the fact I have a six figure mailing list, published all over the planet, etc and currently working on a very unfavorable review of Ford. The old "you don't know who you are dealing with" card some times works, and it's an A hole move, but one they forced on me. I rarely if ever play that card for obvious reasons. Yes, I had to go full A hole. See what happens....
Ned Christiansen
10-19-17, 09:39
The whole auto industry is about making money, not cars, and in my experience in working with the companies and owning their products, I find them mostly the same. They are there to f### us out of our money and they know they're all the same so when people do like I do, never buy X brand again, it means I'm buying Y brand next so it's Y's turn. Somebody disgusted with Y will go to X-- there are plenty of "us" to go around so everybody in the auto industry wins.
Call the company? Feh. You get somebody who knows nothing and is authorized to do nothing but give you a few insincere, scripted lines. They literally don't give a f### beyond hopefully keeping you quiet to a certain extent but they know they are beyond any damage you can do.
I bought a new Pontiac Bonneville (first and last Pontiac) in the 90's-- their flagship. The brakes had about a 1-second delay if you slammed on them to keep from hitting a kid or a car or a deer. One second delay. Nobuddy no'd nuthin. I went back and forth with "Pontiac Cares". Noboddy no'd nuthin. I made a video of it and sent it in. Never heard back. I finally happened to bump into the regional service manager and after a lot of runaround, they bought it back.
My first and last Dodge-- same crap. Nobuddy no's nuthin. "They're all like that". "That's not covered".
Isuzu-- I bought it because I saw a lot of them in the third world and figured they must hold up well and a great sounding warranty. Things immediately started falling off. Warranty? Who a re you again?
Been there with Ford. Been there with Toyota.
We are the just the final step in the manufacturing process where presto, the poorly, hastily designed, cheaply made car turns into money.
I've met plenty of sincere, smart people in the auto industry who wanted to create a safe, quality product. Problem is, that grinds up against a corporate culture and philosophy that will do anything to squeeze another $.17 per car out of quality and safety, and into their pocket.
Will, if you guys get another hurricane....park it in a flood zone! ;)
NYH1.
Going to vent, then advice welcome:
Back story: never owned US made car. Drove just about every brand of Japanese car out there since 83, with no major complaints. I decided perhaps it was time to give a US company a try and my research suggested Ford the best of them. GF got a C Max, I got an explorer. Explorer seemed like a solid vehicle until at 20k miles it started to suffer some mysterious electrical problem, the worst of which manifests itself by hitting the gas peddle and nothing happens. The revs are there, it's just nadda between transmission and the engine. It can last a few seconds to a few minutes and when it does finally engage, the car leaps forward similar to what happens when you drop the clutch hard on a manual car. Other things are rear view cam coming on when going forward, cruise control shutting off for no reason etc. Worst, and potentially dangerous is the dead motor thing. Left me dead in the water in an intersection the other day.
Brought it to Ford service three times now. First two times, being (apparently) an electrical issue, and an intermittent one at that, of course they couldn't reproduce the problem or fix it. Third time was the charm as I walked the tech out and it did it for him in person, so he confirmed it and said he thought it was electrical vs a transmission issue. Once they got it int he shop, you guessed it, they could not reproduce it, and no fix.
Now I'm getting pissed. Many phone calls, etc later to Ford corporate, them generally doing jack shit to help me, etc, they then ask me to bring it in for a 4th time!
I said I would, if they would at least tell me what they would happen after #4 visit and no fix: replace the car, let me out of the lease, etc of after #4 if was not fixed. Their response was "we will evaluate that afterward in a 'good faith review'"
I responded, "so if after #4 and nothing is fixed, we go onto #5?"
Hence a total non answer and yet, I should bring it in for #4 with zero commitment from them, so at that point I declined knowing it was a waste of time and all they are doing is trying to wear me down and give up. I have 7 months left on the lease.
Of course my sense of right and wrong says simply stop paying them and tell them to come get their POS car and sue me if they don't like it. Problem there is, they can ruin my credit which is very good.
I could pay off the lease (as much as that idea grinds my f-ing gears) and just walk away from it and Ford altogether. That's the simple but most $ route. They have me screwed because with that issue, can't really trade it in to another brand (at 6 months you can easily be roled into another lease with other brands) because it's got this electrical issues.
So, it appears I'm stuck with Ford until the lease run out (which is me paying for a defective car), pay the lease off and walk, which is me throwing $ in the toilet on a defective car. Getting an attorney involved at this juncture does not seem a wise investment either.
Any other options you can think of?
Yes, n =1 experience, but that will be my first and last US car. Fu*$ Ford.
You need leverage in your negotiations with Ford. That leverage is here:
https://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/FL-LLsummary.pdf
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
Purchasing it in MA has no bearing. It's in FL, you're in FL, the dealer is in FL and Ford has presence in FL, so FL law applies. If you got it within the past 24 months, the LL probably applies.
So the next time you go in, explain that you simply cannot tolerate assuming the liability for such a serious safety issue for yourself and your family. Remind them that there are lots of "statistics" regarding unresolved vehicle safety defects and you're unwilling to drive another mile in it and risk becoming one. Then explain what you're prepared to do, which is: file a safety complaint with NHTSA, invoke the Lemon Law (if applicable), file a complaint with the BBB, the state AG's Office and the local news "problem solvers", which love to take on big fish. Explain that you'd prefer NOT doing any of those things and give them a some options. Offer to let them provide a loaner vehicle of the same model and equipment (or better) until they confirm the problem themselves and fix it. Offer to amicably end the lease wherein they cut YOU a check for the prorated portion of your "due at lease signing" amount. Offer to allow them to substitute a vehicle of the same model and equipment (or better) for the duration of the current lease.
Whatever you do, don't accept the vehicle back without them confirming the actual issue and repair. Don't let them say "well let's try this and see if it fixes it", because that makes you the expendable guinea pig. Explain that you won't drive it until the fix is CONFIRMED, due to the safety issue at play.
None of us wants to read about you as a statistic, so look out for numero uno!
If they're unwilling to do any of those three things, then proceed with your promised response.
P.S. My last Ford was probably my last one ever. A leaking brake hydro boost (major safety issue) was diagnosed just 2K outside the warranty and they wanted a grand to fix it. No give at all. I might've eaten a few hundred dollars, but no decent car should need a thousand dollar fix within an oil change of the warranty expiring. I told them I'd save the grand and put it towards a Toyota, which is exactly what I did. Traded it for a 4Runner and never looked back.
I'd love to own a Raptor or GT350, but I'd only do it if it came with a 10yr, 100K bumper to bumper warranty. :(
You need leverage in your negotiations with Ford. That leverage is here:
https://www.bbb.org/us/Storage/16/Documents/BBBAutoLine/FL-LLsummary.pdf
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
Purchasing it in MA has no bearing. It's in FL, you're in FL, the dealer is in FL and Ford has presence in FL, so FL law applies. If you got it within the past 24 months, the LL probably applies.
So the next time you go in, explain that you simply cannot tolerate assuming the liability for such a serious safety issue for yourself and your family. Remind them that there are lots of "statistics" regarding unresolved vehicle safety defects and you're unwilling to drive another mile in it and risk becoming one. Then explain what you're prepared to do, which is: file a safety complaint with NHTSA, invoke the Lemon Law (if applicable), file a complaint with the BBB, the state AG's Office and the local news "problem solvers", which love to take on big fish. Explain that you'd prefer NOT doing any of those things and give them a some options. Offer to let them provide a loaner vehicle of the same model and equipment (or better) until they confirm the problem themselves and fix it. Offer to amicably end the lease wherein they cut YOU a check for the prorated portion of your "due at lease signing" amount. Offer to allow them to substitute a vehicle of the same model and equipment (or better) for the duration of the current lease.
Whatever you do, don't accept the vehicle back without them confirming the actual issue and repair. Don't let them say "well let's try this and see if it fixes it", because that makes you the expendable guinea pig. Explain that you won't drive it until the fix is CONFIRMED, due to the safety issue at play.
None of us wants to read about you as a statistic, so look out for numero uno!
If they're unwilling to do any of those three things, then proceed with your promised response.
P.S. My last Ford was probably my last one ever. A leaking brake hydro boost (major safety issue) was diagnosed just 2K outside the warranty and they wanted a grand to fix it. No give at all. I might've eaten a few hundred dollars, but no decent car should need a thousand dollar fix within an oil change of the warranty expiring. I told them I'd save the grand and put it towards a Toyota, which is exactly what I did. Traded it for a 4Runner and never looked back.
I'd love to own a Raptor or GT350, but I'd only do it if it came with a 10yr, 100K bumper to bumper warranty. :(
Great intel I will put into play right now. Thanx!
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, after deciding to take it up a notch via social media (and I have a good following and a simple Google search will show I'm well represented on the net) I got an email today saying my case has been kicked up to a regional manager and reviewing my case to assist, etc. Whether it's to placate me for a while etc, I don't know. I really hated to be that guy who has to make threats like the fact I have a six figure mailing list, published all over the planet, etc and currently working on a very unfavorable review of Ford. The old "you don't know who you are dealing with" card some times works, and it's an A hole move, but one they forced on me. I rarely if ever play that card for obvious reasons. Yes, I had to go full A hole. See what happens....I was thinking that you might be able to pull that kind of weight, nice work! Don't feel bad for holding them accountable to treat you right, stand your ground [emoji106]
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I was thinking that you might be able to pull that kind of weight, nice work! Don't feel bad for holding them accountable to treat you right, stand your ground [emoji106]
I don't feel bad at all, just don't like to be that guy, even when forced to.
I don't feel bad at all, just don't like to be that guy, even when forced to.Yeah, it sucks
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Coal Dragger
10-19-17, 19:49
One other option to actually address the OP's problem....
I used to sell cars for a living after the Marine Corps before I decided to go railroading. Customers desiring to get out of a lease early was not at all uncommon for a variety of reasons. Often a manufacturer will offer incentives to help a potential customer get out of a lease on a vehicle in order to get them in a new one.
Maybe the solution is to start looking at a new vehicle to lease and inquire if there is a way to factor an existing lease termination into the deal.
One other option to actually address the OP's problem....
I used to sell cars for a living after the Marine Corps before I decided to go railroading. Customers desiring to get out of a lease early was not at all uncommon for a variety of reasons. Often a manufacturer will offer incentives to help a potential customer get out of a lease on a vehicle in order to get them in a new one.
Maybe the solution is to start looking at a new vehicle to lease and inquire if there is a way to factor an existing lease termination into the deal.
Why should I pay the remaining existing lease termination on a defective vehicle? I think many have directly addressed my issue and glocktogo above set the standard of the thread for useful intel to have Ford actually honor their warranty, etc.
Took120K mi Escape with sporadic failed power steering into local F dealer. They said $80 to put on code reader. They turned car off, then back on ps worked again.
Since then ps failed completely. Estimates online reading similar issue horror stories say issue either torque sensor or elec assist ps assembly connected under dash to steering column. Replaced torque sensor myself ($150 parts + $100 tools) no avail.
Vehicle too old to warranty.
Basically stuck with a $500 to $1500job depending on if I can source part at a junkyard and replace myself, or be stuck having dealer complete.
Meanwhile my 190K mi Jeep is easy to work on and just needs basic maintenance.
Did you tell them what you do for a living? The bad press you can bring to bear should be enough for them to take it back. I had an issue with a 2013 Exp the heat stopped working during for February in VT. It was legitimately -20! I flipped out the third time and said can't you just change a ****ing cable? There are no cables for the heat. It's all electronic. The issue was water under the drivers seat. It's a cruiser and snow would get in there and melt. Water got into an unused wire harness and screwed things up. We also had an issue with a fuel pump and gas fumes in the cabin. Now it's exhaust fumes.
Did you tell them what you do for a living? The bad press you can bring to bear should be enough for them to take it back. I had an issue with a 2013 Exp the heat stopped working during for February in VT. It was legitimately -20! I flipped out the third time and said can't you just change a ****ing cable? There are no cables for the heat. It's all electronic. The issue was water under the drivers seat. It's a cruiser and snow would get in there and melt. Water got into an unused wire harness and screwed things up. We also had an issue with a fuel pump and gas fumes in the cabin. Now it's exhaust fumes.
Per other posts, really try not to be that guy. It's an A hole move, but i'm starting to do it now with some social media stuff, such as post what's in the OP on my social media outlets, etc. They may or may not cave, but I can promise one thing: I'm going to cost them sales. Also contacted my financial guy to make sure I don't have stock in Ford, and if so, sell it.
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53091708/i-pity-the-fool.jpg
Ned Christiansen
10-20-17, 00:06
I bet I've been responsible for at least thirty people not buying a Pontiac. Say at an average of $25K per, over the years... $750,000 in sales, absolutely nothing to them. And yet, for the ridiculously low cost of doing the right F'ing thing which might have been $1,000...... they could have pocketed the rest. But I swear sometimes with these outfits they'll lose any amount of money rather than allow themselves to be pushed into doing the right thing.
Per other posts, really try not to be that guy. It's an A hole move, but i'm starting to do it now with some social media stuff, such as post what's in the OP on my social media outlets, etc. They may or may not cave, but I can promise one thing: I'm going to cost them sales. Also contacted my financial guy to make sure I don't have stock in Ford, and if so, sell it.
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53091708/i-pity-the-fool.jpg
I hear you. It should not be your default move but this is asinine.
Coal Dragger
10-20-17, 03:36
Why should I pay the remaining existing lease termination on a defective vehicle? I think many have directly addressed my issue and glocktogo above set the standard of the thread for useful intel to have Ford actually honor their warranty, etc.
You would not necessarily have to pay yourself. In some cases competing manufacturers will offer incentive programs so you don't have to get stuck with the bill.
I bet I've been responsible for at least thirty people not buying a Pontiac. Say at an average of $25K per, over the years... $750,000 in sales, absolutely nothing to them. And yet, for the ridiculously low cost of doing the right F'ing thing which might have been $1,000...... they could have pocketed the rest. But I swear sometimes with these outfits they'll lose any amount of money rather than allow themselves to be pushed into doing the right thing.
I currently work with a tier 1 automotive supplier and I can tell you the big 3 have absolutely no problem wasting untold amounts of money. That is why a new pickup truck cost $55k instead of $20k.
I currently work with a tier 1 automotive supplier and I can tell you the big 3 have absolutely no problem wasting untold amounts of money. That is why a new pickup truck cost $55k instead of $20k.
And why they will continue to lose market share, all the while bitching about it as if it's not their fault. The other makers simply beating them by making a superior vehicle, which people are willing to pay extra for in most cases. I had a friend who also worked at a major big three manufacturing plant and she said the unions were an even larger problem to costs, quality, etc than the company.
she said the unions were an even larger problem to costs, quality, etc than the company.
Now you've done it! lol I grew up in the Midwest watching entitled factory workers who made more money than my dad who had a college degree and a middle management job a large insurance company.
:popcorn:
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Now you've done it! lol I grew up in the Midwest watching entitled factory workers who made more money than my dad who had a college degree and a middle management job a large insurance company.
:popcorn:
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Don't blame the messenger man, just repeating what I was told. She said they often dictated to the company what and how things would get built, and it was virtually impossible to fire any of them.
Did you tell them what you do for a living? The bad press you can bring to bear should be enough for them to take it back. I had an issue with a 2013 Exp the heat stopped working during for February in VT. It was legitimately -20! I flipped out the third time and said can't you just change a ****ing cable? There are no cables for the heat. It's all electronic. The issue was water under the drivers seat. It's a cruiser and snow would get in there and melt. Water got into an unused wire harness and screwed things up. We also had an issue with a fuel pump and gas fumes in the cabin. Now it's exhaust fumes.
This is a big issue with Explorer police units. I heard recently that they're fixing the issue for agencies at no cost. You might look into that because just like Will's issue, that's a life threatening safety hazard. :(
This is a big issue with Explorer police units. I heard recently that they're fixing the issue for agencies at no cost. You might look into that because just like Will's issue, that's a life threatening safety hazard. :(
One I forgot to mention in the OP, which I did get vid of, the terrain management system just randomly stops functioning. That makes the vehicle difficult to impossible to drive and the only way to “fix it” so far is to pull over, turn the vehicle off, then back on. What a POS.
Ned Christiansen
10-20-17, 10:18
All these over-engineered, unnecessary features are there for one reason-- so they can charge more. That they are failure prone and a safety hazard is of no concern to them..... they already have the $$.
This is a big issue with Explorer police units. I heard recently that they're fixing the issue for agencies at no cost. You might look into that because just like Will's issue, that's a life threatening safety hazard. :(
We paid to have it fix before they started paying. I've asked for reimbursement twice. I'll check again. It was over $800. Thanks.
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All these over-engineered, unnecessary features are there for one reason-- so they can charge more. That they are failure prone and a safety hazard is of no concern to them..... they already have the $$.
I miss the days when you could simply take apart your own car and fix your own problems. A quick check of the repair manual for torque specs was all that was needed, unless "close enough" was good enough for the day.
SomeOtherGuy
10-20-17, 15:05
Now you've done it! lol I grew up in the Midwest watching entitled factory workers who made more money than my dad who had a college degree and a middle management job a large insurance company.
:popcorn:
Wow, I thought I was the only one who did that. Back in the late 80's and 90's it was totally possible to have a two-income couple, both at a Big 3, making $150-200,000 a year with overtime and all the benefits. Some probably broke $250k/year if one was skilled trades and worked 10-20 hours overtime a week. They all had a new car every year too, some of them TWO near cars a year, because they were practically given away at employee pricing and terms.
Then you wonder how the Big 3 went bankrupt (or just nearly so for Ford). Oh, good times. If you weren't eligible for employee pricing you would be an idiot to buy American, because the glut of year-old domestic cars caused a much greater depreciation than normal.
Last time I started a Ford Sucks thread all the Ford guys kicked me in the balls!
Sorry for your trouble. I do know that dealerships are very sensitive to Yelp reviews and social media attacks. Prob is when its something major they just hunker down, CYA and ignore you. Good Luck!
Call the Attorney General to see if they can help.
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Per other posts, really try not to be that guy. It's an A hole move, but i'm starting to do it now with some social media stuff, such as post what's in the OP on my social media outlets, etc. They may or may not cave, but I can promise one thing: I'm going to cost them sales. Also contacted my financial guy to make sure I don't have stock in Ford, and if so, sell it.
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53091708/i-pity-the-fool.jpg
Honestly, that is no where near as vicious I had to get with a dealership over repairs that they charged for and then never did and got caught red handed on it and then tried to weasel out of it claiming that they should have been paid because they must have done something. So unless you threatened to have them arrested and called them thieving cocksuckers, you really weren't that big of an asshole.
The more I read about newer vehicles the less and less I want to buy one. My wife is nearing the time for a new car but it scares me with all the stuff that can go wrong. I drive a 99 accord that has 235k on it and a 6.0 F250. Both of which I've wrenched on but feel like I can fix any issue given the time. Her current Honda Pilot has been good but I've had a few design issues I've had to fix. I've bypassed the economy mode, all it really did was cause oil to slip by the cut out pistons and foul plugs. It drank almost 2 quarts of oil which they said was still in spec, that's 2 quarts of a 4 quart system. I think not! I hardly lost any fuel mileage and saved plug life and oil consumption from tricking the economy system. Also had the compliance bushing issue, I spent as much in parts because I broke something as it would have cost me for them to do it. Hate it when that happens...lol
Your story does not leave me with confidence things will get any better, but it does confirm it's not an uncommon experience. Guess I have done deciding to do now. Not one Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, etc ever gave me problems. Lesson learned I guess. Will cost me just under 3k to pay off early and walk, but sanity is priceless in my experience.
You may have equity in your lease depending what the payoff amount is, and what the market price for the car is also. However, the rub is selling a defective car which will not bring the value you'd need. Have you escalated this up the Ford food chain past the dealer level? I may have missed that if you did.
You may have equity in your lease depending what the payoff amount is, and what the market price for the car is also. However, the rub is selling a defective car which will not bring the value you'd need. Have you escalated this up the Ford food chain past the dealer level? I may have missed that if you did.
Never worked at dealer level. Been Ford Corporate from day one and all run around BS from them. Dealer I went to for the service has been OK, but I didn't buy it from them so again, not real motivated to do anything above what corporate asks them to do. I doubt a dealership wants to take a problematic car either and unless you purchased from them, no real responsibility to either. If Ford purchased the car back, I'd even get another Ford if the idiots were smart enough to make that deal with me.
Averageman
10-21-17, 19:11
Never worked at dealer level. Been Ford Corporate from day one and all run around BS from them. Dealer I went to for the service has been OK, but I didn't buy it from them so again, not real motivated to do anything above what corporate asks them to do. I doubt a dealership wants to take a problematic car either and unless you purchased from them, no real responsibility to either. If Ford purchased the car back, I'd even get another Ford if the idiots were smart enough to make that deal with me.
There is a strange relationship between the factory and the dealers sometimes.
Someone who worked for me had a series of transmissions go out in his Chevy truck in the early 1990's. Now this story would likely of ended up like yours had his Uncle not worked at a rather high level in GM.
He was told by his Uncle that this particular dealership usually gets a pass because they sell so many new vehicles for GM that corporate would rather deal with these things than get in to another fight with the dealership.
There is a National Car talk show that I listen to on the weekends, he seems to be able to hook customers up with someone at corporate who makes these issues right. They callers often call back and let them know how things were resolved. I think it's called Car Pro's.
Create a website, FB page and Youtube site and write Ford SUX on the side of your rig with links to the website. Let social media do the rest... they will do the bullying for you and Ford my take care of you just to end it.
There is a strange relationship between the factory and the dealers sometimes.
Someone who worked for me had a series of transmissions go out in his Chevy truck in the early 1990's. Now this story would likely of ended up like yours had his Uncle not worked at a rather high level in GM.
He was told by his Uncle that this particular dealership usually gets a pass because they sell so many new vehicles for GM that corporate would rather deal with these things than get in to another fight with the dealership.
There is a National Car talk show that I listen to on the weekends, he seems to be able to hook customers up with someone at corporate who makes these issues right. They callers often call back and let them know how things were resolved. I think it's called Car Pro's.
https://www.carprousa.com/car-pro-show
Jerry Reynolds
Never worked at dealer level. Been Ford Corporate from day one and all run around BS from them. Dealer I went to for the service has been OK, but I didn't buy it from them so again, not real motivated to do anything above what corporate asks them to do. I doubt a dealership wants to take a problematic car either and unless you purchased from them, no real responsibility to either. If Ford purchased the car back, I'd even get another Ford if the idiots were smart enough to make that deal with me.
That sucks. Just got off the phone with a good friend who likes to do some of his own maintenance. We were going to do a brake job on his 2013 Ford Focus ST yesterday. Hot little car. We did an exhaust, CAI, Stage I tune, and larger intercooler. We went to take off the wheels, and the lug wrench wouldn't fit over the lug nut. None of our ratchets fit, and we have them all. He talked to the dealer today. It seems all Ford lug nuts are now two piece. Steel, and chrome. Moisture gets in between, and they swell so the wrench won't fit. Ford knows about it, but could care less. If you have a flat, and need to change your tire, you are screwed. EFFF Ford. He has to buy all new lug nuts for a four year old car, and has to go aftermarket to get all steel.
That sucks. Just got off the phone with a good friend who likes to do some of his own maintenance. We were going to do a brake job on his 2013 Ford Focus ST yesterday. Hot little car. We did an exhaust, CAI, Stage I tune, and larger intercooler. We went to take off the wheels, and the lug wrench wouldn't fit over the lug nut. None of our ratchets fit, and we have them all. He talked to the dealer today. It seems all Ford lug nuts are now two piece. Steel, and chrome. Moisture gets in between, and they swell so the wrench won't fit. Ford knows about it, but could care less. If you have a flat, and need to change your tire, you are screwed. EFFF Ford. He has to buy all new lug nuts for a four year old car, and has to go aftermarket to get all steel.
Wow, that alone is a good reason to avoid the brand, as that's not a small problem if you're in the middle of no place with a flat tire. I'm gonna get rid of the POS asap, and be done with it. No more attempting to work with them as it's just adding big aggravations, etc.
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