View Full Version : S&W 4006 .40S&W opinions??
Hello everyone. I put my Taurus PT1911 up for sale a week or so ago, I wanted to sell / trade it so I could add another hi-cap pistol to my collection, just to get one last hi-cap in the safe before the mus/merican apocalypse starts in November... something like a Beretta 92, XD-9 Tactical, or, what I've wanted for a LONG time now but cannot afford, an Armalite AR-24T. I wanted something with a 15 - 17rd mag capacity, and a minimum of 4.5" barrel (I prefer 5"+, I like the added velocity and accuracy).
Anyways, a friend called me last night, that has been wanting a 1911 for a long time, and after he seen the accuracy my PT1911 was capable of, he has been wanting it. He has offered me a S&W 4006 in .40 S&W, which from what I can tell is in at least 97% condition, probably 98/99, only minor holster marks are visible.
I know S&W doesn't make these anymore, but I hear they were pretty good handguns, eh? It's purpose is going to be a CCW. I have been carrying my PT1911, but I don't like carrying it "cocked and locked", and I like the DA/SA capability of the Smith, to carry it chambered, hammer down, safety off.
Anyways, does this sound like a good deal? Any reason I should stay away from it? It has a 4" barrel, which is a bit short for my taste, but I can overlook that for an accurate, dependable, carry weapon. Thanx for all opinions!
The PT1911 for the 4006 is definitely trading up.
The 4006 isn't a first choice, but there are worse, and Smith will support it.
I carried a 4006 for a while as a duty gun, It never jammed and was acceptably accurate.
The PT1911 for the 4006 is definitely trading up.
The 4006 isn't a first choice, but there are worse, and Smith will support it.
Agreed. The 4006 is a very solid pistol. Jump on that trade.
4" is the standard barrel length for 9 mm and .40 S&W handguns--that is the barrel length most ammo is designed for in those calibers. The 4006 is a solid pistol and a pretty good duty handgun for uniformed patrol--CHP has loved theirs. However, for civilian CCW, the 4006 is a bit heavy, the safety is not ergonomic, and you give up a few rounds compared to other designs--you might find yourself better off with a G19 or M&P.
Oh, there is nothing wrong carrying a 1911 cocked and locked. Think about what the difference is between carrying a cocked and locked 1911 with a 5.5 lbs trigger and a Glock with a 5.5 lb trigger?
Think about what the difference is between carrying a cocked and locked 1911 with a 5.5 lbs trigger and a Glock with a 5.5 lb trigger?
There is a huge difference, and by carrying a G19 i don't feel undergunned either.
IrishDevil
10-09-08, 20:07
He was referencing the trigger, in that the 1911 has safeties the Glock doesn't.
There is a huge difference, and by carrying a G19 i don't feel undergunned either.
Rob96--Please elucidate, what is the "huge" difference between carrying a "cocked and locked" 1911 with a 5.5 lb trigger and a Glock with a 5.5 lb trigger? How would you describe the differences to a jury in an OIS incident civil liability case?
Well, I did it, got the 4006. It's a very nice, solid pistol, as you've all stated... I've only fired about 20 rounds through it today, using some ammo that came with the gun, and it's getting around 3.2" @ 25 yds... not bad at all, but not as accurate as my PT1911. By "carry pistol", I don't mind weight or size, most of the time I carry a full sized combat pistol, I just wanted this one over the PT because SA/DA pistols are a bit safer and faster, IMO.. For times I really need to conceal a weapon, or I am wearing shorts and a t-shirt, I carry a Kimber Ultra CDP II .45 (I try not to carry this one though, as it has a lot of sentimental value, extremely important to me), or I carry my little Bersa Thunder .380, a Walther PPK look-a-like.
I love the fit and finish of the pistol, and I love the adjustable sights, not many duty pistols come with windage and elevation adjustments anymore... the trigger pull is quite long and stiff on DA, but that is fine, perfect for my purposes. On SA however, it's quite light, and crisp, and feels identical to my Beretta 96.
The only 2 things I don't like about the pistol is, A: The grip is quite fat for only an 11 rd. magazine, but not too bad. and, B: It has a magazine disconnect... I HATE those... the firing mechanism will not work unless there is a magazine inserted. Perhaps I can find a way to "remove" this... I'll post a pic or two when I get some time. It's factory, except for the addition of some Hogue grips.
Also, the ammo I was given, is .40 S&W +P, and is like nothing I've seen around here. It is FMJ, has a coned shaped flat nose, and the bullet is the same color as the brass. The case head stamping is : "MFS 40S&W+P".. never heard of that company before. I'm not a fan of +P loadings except for in the .38 Spl., so perhaps accuracy will improve will some normal loads, or when I begin handloading. Also, is it safe to fire the rest of these +P rounds in this pistol?
Thanks a million for everyone's input!
Oh, and yes, I'd feel safer carrying a chambered Glock than I would carrying a chambered "match" 1911... the trigger pull on my PT1911 was extremely light, a LOT lighter than the G17 and G21 I have experience with.
Perhaps a "mil-spec" regular 1911 would be more of a comparison. I also like the trigger safety over the grip safety, if the weapon is dropped on, say, the backstrap, the weight of the weapon can depress the grip safety, and gravity on such a light trigger can cause it to discharge. I never tried it, just saying, I prefer not to carry them in condition 1.
IrishDevil
10-09-08, 21:02
Try to find the factory grip, it's thinner than the Hogue. I checked CDNN, they didn't have any grips, but they do have used mags for 14.99. I'm a 3rd Gen S&W supporter, even though I don't own one anymore.:D
MarshallDodge
10-09-08, 22:16
I have owned a 4506 and a 5906 but never a 4006. The 3rd gen Smith & Wessons are good guns so I am sure you will do just fine with it.
There is NO such thing as a SAAMI rating for .40 S&W "+P"!!! Any ammo rated as such is not built to any recognized standard and may not be safe.
CHP found the factory straight backstrap (not the curved) grip worked best for the majority of shooters.
The 4006 is a "Full Size Combat Pistol".
3" groups at 25 yds is reasonable for a duty .40 S&W pistol.
I am not a fan of mag-disconnects, although they are not as bad as locks.
In the hands of a properly trained individual, there is nothing faster or safer than a SA pistol; SA/DA pistols are substantially slower and not any safer--in some ways, perhaps less safe.
It has been my experience that a duty/carry 1911 should have nominal 5 lbs trigger, anything lighter is for a game gun.
Rob96--Please elucidate, what is the "huge" difference between carrying a "cocked and locked" 1911 with a 5.5 lb trigger and a Glock with a 5.5 lb trigger? How would you describe the differences to a jury in an OIS incident civil liability case?
I wanted delete the trigger pullportion of your quote that I used. I was refering to the physical carry of a 1911 versus a G19. People go out and buy 1911s for carry then when they experience the weight and such they end up not carrying. If they would have started out with a gun like the G19 they would be more inclined to carry. I was not referring to the legalities of trigger pulls or safeties.
Roger that--G19's can definitely be more comfortable to carry concealed, although 1911's have not been bad for me in 20+ years of use either...
However, as noted, I was specifically addressing the OP's concerns re. cocked and locked carry.
Thanks for the info DocGKR! I will dispose of those +P bullets (pull the bullets, dump the powder, re-charge and re-prime with a "known" load, and re-seat). Of course, if the "+P" cases are any thicker than standard ones, I'll have to dispose of those as well. I found out that company, MFS, is a Hungarian company, which sells ammo similar to Seller & Belliot (sp?), so it "should" have been ok if not for the +P designation... I have about 33 of them left, only fired about 11 of them, the rest were WWB.
I'm heading to the store today to get some American made ammo, until my dies arrive, probably get some 180gr. Golden Sabers or Gold Dots... anyone have any recommendations for a good defensive .40 round? I know I'll get some reponses for Rangers, but I have to special order those, and they cost me an arm and a leg down here.
MarshallDodge
10-10-08, 12:04
I have read that the 165 grain Hydrashok is a good load but I have no personal experience.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!?!?!?!?!?!
Let me bash my head against the wall until gray matter leaks out my ears and nostrils...
Have you tried reading this: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Hydra-Shok was state of the art 15 years ago--modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs!
MarshallDodge
10-10-08, 12:48
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!?!?!?!?!?!
Let me bash my head against the wall until gray matter leaks out my ears and nostrils...
Have you tried reading this: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Hydra-Shok was state of the art 15 years ago--modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs!
Easy bro! I stated what I had read not that I am an expert. No need to bash your head, I just threw it into a pile of suggestions.
I meant to say HST, not Hydrashok. Hydrashok is old school and old technology. :cool:
John_Wayne777
10-10-08, 14:11
CHP found the factory straight backstrap (not the curved) grip worked best for the majority of shooters.
I'll second that. The straight backstrap is the way to go on weapons like the 4506, 5906, and 4006.
Well, I finally took some pics. I also did some more shooting with it yesterday, and the accuracy went through the roof. Got a box of Rem. UMC 180gr. JHP's and some 165gr. Speer Gold Dots for HD. The 180's averaged around 2.75" @ 25 yds, and the 165 GD's posted an amazing 2.1" average out of three 5 shot groups. I am tickled pink.
One thing I absolutely love about this pistol is the sights. The sights are the best handgun combat sights I have encountered, and mine have steel "ears" on each side of the rear adjustable sight for protection... the pics online I have seen on 4006's don't have these.. are those aftermarket?
The weapon is a tad heavy, but that doesn't bother me. I like to feel the "heft"... the weapon feels so sturdy and tight that I feel I could throw it off of a building and pick it up and use it. That's a good feeling when a pistol inspired that kind of confidence. I am an "all-steel" kinda guy, and never really got onto the polymer "tupperware toy" bandwagon when they got popular, but my Beretta M9, and my 1911's just don't feel as "strong" as this little pig does.
Also, does anyone know a good place to get some replacement grips? I will go with the straight backstrap, as you've all recommended. I prefer rubber or polymer grips, not wood. Whatever will thin this out a bit.
Here's some pics,
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii47/Damascus_747/SW001.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii47/Damascus_747/SW002.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii47/Damascus_747/SW003.jpg
Also, I tried to take some pictures of those +P rounds I had, so you guys may ID them, but as you can tell, my camera is old, and isn't sharp enough to get a clear close-up. If anyone wants them to test, PM me.
In the hands of a properly trained individual, there is nothing faster or safer than a SA pistol; SA/DA pistols are substantially slower and not any safer--in some ways, perhaps less safe.
In the hands of a properly trained individual, there is no practical difference in speed between a street-appropriate SA and a street-appropriate DA/SA. After the first shot, both guns have close enough to the same trigger weight and reset distance (varies by model, of course) to be essentially the same. For the first shot, the DA pull is definitely longer and heavier, but that does not make it slower. Properly executed, the first shot trigger pull on any handgun is begun as the pistol moves to extension in line with the target, so only the last bit of weight/movement need by applied when the shot is ready to be broken.
Fear Not, the Double Action Shot (http://pistol-training.com/articles/fear-not-the-double-action-shot) by Ernest Langdon is great reading on the subject.
Where the SA guns have an advantage is that they're more forgiving of mistakes and don't require as much hand strength.
Robb Jensen
10-13-08, 20:38
In the hands of a properly trained individual, there is no practical difference in speed between a street-appropriate SA and a street-appropriate DA/SA. After the first shot, both guns have close enough to the same trigger weight and reset distance (varies by model, of course) to be essentially the same. For the first shot, the DA pull is definitely longer and heavier, but that does not make it slower. Properly executed, the first shot trigger pull on any handgun is begun as the pistol moves to extension in line with the target, so only the last bit of weight/movement need by applied when the shot is ready to be broken.
100% agree. Just two words.........Ernest Langdon ! :D
The 4006 is decent.
My dealer sells the used ones at $320,
I got one but all I could get it to do was jam,
YMMV
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