View Full Version : Colt's new M5 carbine introduced
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/22/colt-m5-enhanced-carbine-introduced-bidec/
The gun was introduced at the Bahrain International Defence Exhibition & Conference.
The gun is ambi, has a low profile gas block in a carbine length gas system with a free float modular rail system.
The barrel has some redesign work on it but still utilizes the standard M4 feed ramps on the barrel extension. There are modifications of the chamber area of the barrel and the changes that further ventilate gas and helps with air circulation by drawing heat out of the receiver and out the handguards.
This new Colt M5 used a short-stroke tappet piston as opposed to D/I.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/22/colt-m5-enhanced-carbine-introduced-bidec/
The gun was introduced at the Bahrain International Defence Exhibition & Conference.
The gun is ambi, has a low profile gas block in a carbine length gas system with a free float modular rail system.
The barrel has some redesign work on it but still utilizes the standard M4 feed ramps on the barrel extension. There are modifications of the chamber area of the barrel and the changes that further ventilate gas and helps with air circulation by drawing heat out of the receiver and out the handguards.
This new Colt M5 used a short-stroke tappet piston as opposed to D/I.
Well that little tidbit will chap a few asses around here!
Wonder if the piston is like the 6940P?
The ambi lower is what is interesting to me. That said, looking at the pics, and they aren't exactly close ups, I don't see where it is better than other ambi lowers, like LMT's or KAC, or others really. That said, that is at a glance, and until I could point hands on I will be willing to hold off total damnation.
That said, I'll be more interested if it actually hits the commercial market. Otherwise it just vaporware.
The ambi lower is what is interesting to me. That said, looking at the pics, and they aren't exactly close ups, I don't see where it is better than other ambi lowers, like LMT's or KAC, or others really. That said, that is at a glance, and until I could point hands on I will be willing to hold off total damnation.
That said, I'll be more interested if it actually hits the commercial market. Otherwise it just vaporware.
Yeah, intersting that it was unveiled in Dubai and not at SHOT or something here.
Yeah, intersting that it was unveiled in Dubai and not at SHOT or something here.
It may be timing. Dubai is now and shot is in January. It is obviously a select fire gun so it would make sense to unveil it at a military show as soon as it is ready.
ruckusjuice
10-22-17, 20:08
I have no experience with piston ARs. Are they normally that heavy?
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5.56 Bonded SP
10-22-17, 21:03
I have no experience with piston ARs. Are they normally that heavy?
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I have a long stroke piston gun that only weighs 7lbs.
Maybe the handguard is heavy on the colt or something, but I do think that is on the heavy side for a piston gun.
If priced reasonably(~1000$), and if they sell spare parts for it I will probably buy two of the colt piston guns.
Hopefully they are successful, variety is always a good thing and I am a fan of piston guns. Although it's hard to beat a 6.5lb AR like the trooper.
I have a long stroke piston gun that only weighs 7lbs.
Maybe the handguard is heavy on the colt or something, but I do think that is on the heavy side for a piston gun.
If priced reasonably(~1000$), and if they sell spare parts for it I will probably buy two of the colt piston guns.
Hopefully they are successful, variety is always a good thing and I am a fan of piston guns. Although it's hard to beat a 6.5lb AR like the trooper.
Could be a heavier barrel profile. Glancing at the pictures it looks to be a bit thick. No idea on the rail as far as that goes for weight.
If the rifles come in at the 1K range it would be interesting. Though I would then be more interested in the lowers in the $400 range. If they could pull that, for a full ambi lower, they could be dangerous to others out there.
leibermuster
10-22-17, 21:20
There are so many AR variants out there, its crazy.. Who will remember what these enhancements are in 20 years, so many companies have made a piston version, the only one that is worth it is the HK416/417 but that colt one 10 years ago was interesting.. I would say the constant drive to piston is constantly winning out for big militaries. That being said I hope for Colts sake they get a lot of contracts, I want them to do well again.
Colt deserves a lot of business now that it seems many of there lefty gov contract sucking employees have disappeared. I love my Colts. 14.5 socom is my favorite of them all lately.
5.56 Bonded SP
10-22-17, 21:20
Could be a heavier barrel profile. Glancing at the pictures it looks to be a bit thick. No idea on the rail as far as that goes for weight.
If the rifles come in at the 1K range it would be interesting. Though I would then be more interested in the lowers in the $400 range. If they could pull that, for a full ambi lower, they could be dangerous to others out there.
It very well could be the barrel, the barrel on my 7lb long stroke piston is very thin. Gets hot quick but also cools down fast too.
I agree the lower would be awesome.
I like both piston and DI. I hope these come to the market soon at a decent cost, and if they do I hope colt sells all the proprietary spare parts for it through various online vendors.
That's my biggest complaint with piston guns are manufacturers that don't sell spare proprietary Parts. There are a few good companies that do however. That will pretty much be my main deciding factor on if I want to buy one. That's the beauty about standard direct impingement ARs, there is no end to spare parts to be had.
Defaultmp3
10-22-17, 23:50
If you look around, it looks like this has been out for a little while, having of been mentioned at IDEX 2017 already, which took place in February (e.g., http://www.janes.com/article/67891/enhanced-rifles-idex17d2). Also, none of the earlier press releases, along with the data sheet attached to the article, mention an op-rod piston mechanism, but do state that the guns have a "carbine length gas system", which is a bit strange to say if it was an op-rod piston gun. As noted by TFB, there was a previous Colt M5, which did utilize such a system. In fact, note the article that TFB quoted states:
The Colt M5 uses a conventional short-stroke tappet piston where a two piece piston/ operating rod strikes the face of the bolt carrier group driving it rearward and the piston rod returns to its forward position by a spring.
Now, compare that to an old article written about the old Colt M5, circa 2007:
The M5 uses a conventional short-stroke tappet piston where a two piece piston/ operating rod strikes the face of the bolt carrier group driving it rearward and the piston rod returns to its forward position by a spring.Source: http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1429
I think the piston issue might be a case of lazy journalism, in the case of TFB/Army Recognition.
I have no experience with piston ARs. Are they normally that heavy?
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My LWRC is heavy relative to my 6920. It’s not that big a deal until you start hanging shit off of it.
Almonds Activated
I figure this is going to be the general consensus from this board...but the piston things is interesting.
A Colt with a Geissele rail on an ambi lower...but with a piston system?
Very interesting.
Jwknutson17
10-23-17, 08:06
I have a hard time believing a piston system would fit under that MK1 rail. The Ambi lower and the MK1 rail are the only thing that peak my interest here.
sundance435
10-23-17, 13:14
I have no experience with piston ARs. Are they normally that heavy?
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The barrel accounts for a few ounces. I don't think it's an M4 profile, since it will probably compete with HK's IAR offerings. That Geissele rail system isn't the lightest, either, but it's sturdy. My PWS MK114 comes in almost a pound and a quarter lighter than the most similar Colt setup, which seems like too much to be just the rail and barrel profile (unless it's more of a HB profile).
The barrel accounts for a few ounces. I don't think it's an M4 profile, since it will probably compete with HK's IAR offerings. That Geissele rail system isn't the lightest, either, but it's sturdy. My PWS MK114 comes in almost a pound and a quarter lighter than the most similar Colt setup, which seems like too much to be just the rail and barrel profile (unless it's more of a HB profile).
The 6940P I used to have came with a SOCOM profile barrel.
I'm not sure my yawn could get an bigger, but Colt has got to be tired of seeing HK picking up contracts with the various 416 generations.
I don't fault them at all for playing the same piston game to give an option for those who want it. With the G rail, this is clearly marked as a 416 fighter.
sundance435
10-23-17, 21:13
I'm not sure my yawn could get an bigger, but Colt has got to be tired of seeing HK picking up contracts with the various 416 generations.
I don't fault them at all for playing the same piston game to give an option for those who want it. With the G rail, this is clearly marked as a 416 fighter.
Yeah, this looks to me like something merely to compete on some level with the IAR/416. Other than competing with HK and LWRC for smaller contracts, I'm having a hard time picturing a purpose for it.
The 6940P I used to have came with a SOCOM profile barrel.
I don't recall, what kind of piston system did those use, short or long? Probably wouldn't be too difficult for Colt to come up with some new proprietary short stroke system, though.
I'd buy one. But then I again I do have a soft spot for Colt, Geissele, and pistons. At least they're trying, and it's not a monolithic upper, like a lot of piston ARs, which I do not like.
Dr. Bullseye
10-23-17, 23:20
How does this differ from what H&K already makes? (except for the the rails)
indianalex01
10-24-17, 00:04
That's a weird question? How does any AR differ outside rails and such? Come on man.
5.56 Bonded SP
10-24-17, 00:32
How does this differ from what H&K already makes? (except for the the rails)
There are many different types of pistons that piston ARs use. The two main designs are long stroke and short stroke, of those two main designs there are many different variants.
Short stroke top, long stroke bottom.
(Not my image)
http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/P1110413-900x600.jpg
Short stroke pistons have more moving parts, which actuate the bcg by "hitting/pushing" it, where as the long stroke pistons are part of the actual bcg (think ak47 piston).
And as I said there are many different variants of each.
Personally I fancy long stroke for its simplicity, but each probably has its own advantages.
Anyone please feel free to correct me if anything i said was incorrect or chime in.
indianalex01
10-24-17, 01:16
Thanks for that post. Man, I hope colt brings this thing out for the civilian market asap. I have a Sig 516 SBR and love it. I am a Colt hoe though.
jackblack73
10-24-17, 01:53
It's hard to tell from the pics but their execution of an ambi lower looks bulky and inelegant. It seems to protrude quite a bit from the left side. At first glance, I would take many other manufacturers over this.
I have a hard time believing a piston system would fit under that MK1 rail. The Ambi lower and the MK1 rail are the only thing that peak my interest here.
Not sure about the MK1, but my LWRC rail is very much a low profile. I’d have to measure, but it’s as slim as my DI guns...so I could see it fitting under a regular rail.
Not sure about the MK1, but my LWRC rail is very much a low profile. I’d have to measure, but it’s as slim as my DI guns...so I could see it fitting under a regular rail.
Isn't the HK rail slightly "taller" than the MK1 for this very reason? Hence why folks with that rail are able to snug up a light at 11 or 1 o'clock and still fit a PEQ on top?
Dr. Bullseye
10-24-17, 18:17
There are many different types of pistons that piston ARs use. The two main designs are long stroke and short stroke, of those two main designs there are many different variants.
Short stroke top, long stroke bottom.
(Not my image)
http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/P1110413-900x600.jpg
Short stroke pistons have more moving parts, which actuate the bcg by "hitting/pushing" it, where as the long stroke pistons are part of the actual bcg (think ak47 piston).
And as I said there are many different variants of each.
Personally I fancy long stroke for its simplicity, but each probably has its own advantages.
Anyone please feel free to correct me if anything i said was incorrect or chime in.
Great information, pictures and explanation, thanks.
I don't recall, what kind of piston system did those use, short or long? Probably wouldn't be too difficult for Colt to come up with some new proprietary short stroke system, though.
The 6940P was/is a short stroke system with an "articulating link", meaning the piston sort of swivels around on the head of the op-rod to absorb any little off-center movements.
Isn't the HK rail slightly "taller" than the MK1 for this very reason? Hence why folks with that rail are able to snug up a light at 11 or 1 o'clock and still fit a PEQ on top?
I don’t know. Like I said, not sure about the mk1.
I’ll break out the mics later and see what the LWRC is. If they can make a lo-pro piston no doubt others can.
tvfreakarms
10-25-17, 11:16
I'm surprised pof isn't trying to get into the military contract side
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KingsideRook
10-25-17, 11:23
I'm going to be That Guy and say that, while we've certainly held Colt and their rifles to a high standard, because of military adoption and the ongoing incremental improvements to the platform in the last couple of decades, I don't have similar confidence in a new piston design out of this constantly near-bankrupt shell of a company.
That said, if it turns out it's not a piston system via lazy journalism, then it's probably just a nice Colt M4 with a Geissele rail.
militarymoron
10-25-17, 12:28
The Army announcement here https://www.armyrecognition.com/bidec_2017_official_online_show_daily_news/colt_introduces_its_new_m5_5.56mm_enhanced_carbine_at_bidec_2017.html reads:
"Introducing the M5 Enhanced Carbine series of assault rifles for the modern war fighter and special weapons law enforcement professional when weight, comfort and adaptability are critical.
The Colt M5 Enhanced Carbine features a completely redesigned lower receiver with fully ambidextrous controls and a 6-posrtion receiver extension adaptable to any sized shooter and bilateral shooting style. With maximum performance and ergonomics at the forefront of the design considerations.
The Colt M5 Enhanced Carbine has a low profile gas block in a carbine length gas system and a free float modular rail system, maximizing rail real estate, comfort, weight and accuracy, while at the same time, maintaining the same lethality and accuracy expected from a Colt.
The Colt M5 uses a conventional short-stroke tappet piston where a two piece piston/ operating rod strikes the face of the bolt carrier group driving it rearward and the piston rod returns to its forward position by a spring.
The barrel itself has had some redesign work on it as well though still utilizing the standard M4 feed ramps on the barrel extension. There are modifications of the chamber area of the barrel and the changes further ventilate gas and helps with air circulation by drawing heat out of the receiver and out the handguards.
The M5 Enhanced Carbine is truly the next step in a long legacy of Colt high performance assault weapons."
Everything is the same word-for-word except the bolded part about the piston system, which is missing from the graphic text description. It doesn't mention a piston system anywhere in the features - I wonder why:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/3-M5_01.png
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