Bullet struck the muzzle break and key holed [Archive]

Packeagle

10-22-17, 21:04

I just assembled a new upper. I took it to the range today to sight it in. I noticed that a round had key holed. I thought at was weird as this is a new barrel (Stretch16 Phantom) and I've shot ~75 rounds through it previously with an ALG Sidewinder brake to get the gas block dialed in and evaluate that brake, all worked fine. I decided to replace the brake with the one off of my old upper, a DPMS Miculek Muzzle Brake. I inspected the muzzle brake after the keyhole and it looks as if the bullet hit the muzzle break. I was shooting 55 grn. Freedom re-manufactured at the time. I don't think their is a problem with the muzzle brake being miss aligned as I've pushed a rod through it and I can't get the rod to snag, even when I try. Any ideas what I have going on?

http://i67.tinypic.com/2z5tz6x.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2hn261h.jpg

Mr. Goodtimes

10-22-17, 21:10

The threads on the barrel or the break may not be entirely, perfectly concentric.

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5.56 Bonded SP

10-22-17, 23:38

I've heard of freedom remanufactured causing a lot of kabooms. I'll never shoot that stuff.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was the ammo even though this problem is symbolic on non concentric threads.

Packeagle

10-22-17, 23:52

That is what I was afraid of. How can I tell if it is the threads in the muzzle break or the threads on the barrel? Trial and error?

5.56 Bonded SP

10-22-17, 23:54

That is what I was afraid of. How can I tell if it is the threads in the muzzle break or the threads on the barrel? Trial and error?

Look through the upper and see if it's clear or if the muzzle break blocks it, or use a wooden dowell.

If bet it was the muzzle break, but if it is the barrel I would send it back and demand a refund.

Packeagle

10-23-17, 00:06

Yeah, I pushed a rod through it with the jag and it doesn't hit the break. I have probably 150-160 rounds though the gun at this point so its not happening all the time.

Wake27

10-23-17, 00:36

Freedom reman is garbage. Stretch16 is the name of the company that you bought the barrel from?

5.56 Bonded SP

10-23-17, 01:38

I trust tula more than I trust freedom reman. Although it's most likely the muzzle brake.

Eurodriver

10-23-17, 06:25

Freedom reman is garbage. Stretch16 is the name of the company that you bought the barrel from?

What in the world is Stretch16?

Kenneth

10-23-17, 06:41

What in the world is Stretch16?

It is a carbon wrapped barrel that 3 gunners are using.

Supposedly very nice but $$$.

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Packeagle

10-23-17, 11:07

It is a carbon wrapped barrel that 3 gunners are using.

Supposedly very nice but $$$.

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkClose, it's a 16" intermediate gas length fluted barrel. Its Stainless steel (Proof does the carbon fiber). Mine is the phantom so it's got fancy fluting and Melonite treatment. They are fairly expensive, though. I picked it up off of a prize table. Based on the reputation of this company in the 3 gun world, I'd find it hard to believe it was the barrel. A lot of top shooters run them. I'm at a loss right now though.

http://www.strongsidetactical.com/stretch-16-phantom-ar15-barrel-melonite/

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gaijin

10-23-17, 12:06

Did you use a precision washer or crush/peel washer?

With a comp that just has a few thousandths to a side (in terms of bore diameter), it is mandatory to use a precision washer.
A crush washer is too imprecise to align a "precision", super effective- comp/muzzle device.

https://precisionarmament.com/product/accu-washer-system/

Packeagle

10-23-17, 12:52

It seems like an ammo issue. Took it to an indoor range and shot the same ammo without a problem. So either a fluke or just a bad round.

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Packeagle

10-23-17, 12:52

5.56 Bonded SP

10-23-17, 15:37

I still think it was the muzzle brake. My two cents would be stop shooting freedom reman if you care about your gun, and change the muzzle brake.

Off topic, but that is a pretty sweet looking barrel!
I like the specs on it.
Have you shot any match grade ammo out of that barrel? How is the recoil impulse with that intermediate gas system? :) Port size? By the sounds of it, I bet it has a very mild recoil impulse.

Packeagle

10-23-17, 15:56

Recoil impulse is really nice. I have the Superlative Arms adjustable gas block and a RTB light weight carrier. I also took the weights out of the buffer. So I have the gas turned way down.

With the Freedom Reman, I had a 4 inch group or so at 200 yards.

Haven't shot any match ammo yet. This rifle probably won't see anything other than 55 gr. bulk for the ≤100yrd shots at the local 3 gun matches. I would love to get to a major next year and shoot some longer shots.

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Ned Christiansen

10-23-17, 16:35

I don't believe that's necessarily evidence of a bullet strike. I do see normal blast face erosion, and indeed there are some rather extreme divots compared to the to-be-expected mottling, as if there were some chunks of something larger that individual granules of powder. But a bullet strike that close to the muzzle (assuming this thing is not extremely eccentric somehow) ought not be point-on. If it were me I'd check concentricity and clearance by eyeball; if any question I've make the hole bigger / fix the concentricity issue..... and shoot on.

I know nothing of Freedom Munitions other than they took very, very good care of a friend in a very forthright way when there was significant doubt that it had anything to do with anything they did, and at that, it was not a question of a bad load, it was a caliber mixup.

Packeagle

10-23-17, 16:38

I don't believe that's necessarily evidence of a bullet strike. I do see normal blast face erosion, and indeed there are some rather extreme divots compared to the to-be-expected mottling, as if there were some chunks of something larger that individual granules of powder. But a bullet strike that close to the muzzle (assuming this thing is not extremely eccentric somehow) ought to be point-on. If it were me I'd check concentricity and clearance by eyeball; if any question I've make the hole bigger / fix the concentricity issue..... and shoot on.

I know nothing of Freedom Munitions other than they took very, very good care of a friend in a very forthright way when there was significant doubt that it had anything to do with anything they did, and at that, it was not a question of a bad load, it was a caliber mixup.Yeah. Maybe it was just a fluke then. That keyhole just threw me for a loop and I'm trying to nail down a cause. Thanks for your thoughts.

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Wake27

10-23-17, 16:57

I know of a lot of people who shoot Freedom but I don't think any of it is their reman stuff. I had at least three keyholes from a pretty new factory Noveske last summer with the reman 223 and found a reman 9mm round that look like two pieces of brass had been fused together.

Packeagle

10-23-17, 17:01

5.56 Bonded SP

10-23-17, 17:18

Looks like two baffle strikes to me...

48170

ra2bach

10-23-17, 17:43

Yeah. Maybe it was just a fluke then. That keyhole just threw me for a loop and I'm trying to nail down a cause. Thanks for your thoughts.

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I'm with Ned, I don't see a bullet strike. I can't believe that a bullet that stuck your comp would have made it to the target at all. I've had bullets from shitty ammo keyhole before at 25yds...

Ned Christiansen

10-24-17, 08:19

I just corrected my post. I said:
"But a bullet strike that close to the muzzle (assuming this thing is not extremely eccentric somehow) ought to be point-on."

What I meant was,
"But a bullet strike that close to the muzzle (assuming this thing is not extremely eccentric somehow) ought not be point-on. "

BufordTJustice

10-24-17, 19:37

Looks like two baffle strikes to me...

48170The jacket may have begun to fail, but that's not a baffle strike. That's gas erosion, most likey from unburnt powder particles.

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5.56 Bonded SP

10-24-17, 19:54

The jacket may have begun to fail, but that's not a baffle strike. That's gas erosion, most likey from unburnt powder particles.

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Look more closely.. There is erosion from gas no denying that, but there are also two good dings/dents in the circles as well that look like baffle strikes (upper right side). I believe something did impact the brake, whether it was the entire bullet or fragments of the jacket I could not say.. But if you look at both visible baffles, the dents are in the same place on both baffles indicating an object flying in a straightish path impacted both the first and second baffles; since the dents on the second baffle are not as severe as the first it leads me to believe that the bullet started to deviate/tumble from a concentric path.

I have an old muzzle brake that has significant gas erosion, but it did not have any dings/dents on it that looked like baffle strikes.

BufordTJustice

10-24-17, 20:15

Look more closely.. There is erosion from gas no denying that, but there are also two good dings/dents in the circles as well that look like baffle strikes (upper right side). I believe something did impact the brake, whether it was the entire bullet or fragments of the jacket I could not say.. But if you look at both visible baffles, the dents are in the same place on both baffles indicating an object flying in a straightish path impacted both the first and second baffles; since the dents on the second baffle are not as severe as the first it leads me to believe that the bullet started to deviate/tumble from a concentric path.

I have an old muzzle brake that has significant gas erosion, but it did not have any dings/dents on it that looked like baffle strikes.

I DID look closely.

I've also had an actual baffle strike. You have not had a baffle strike.

It could be a bullet jacket beginning to delaminate. It could also be poor heat treat or surface treatment of the muzzle device.

Baffle strikes don't take out small chunks like that. However, a failing muzzle brake baffle is a much more likey culprit.

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5.56 Bonded SP

10-24-17, 20:17

Maybe I am mistaken, but I do believe the bullets or something did impact the muzzle brake.

48196

48197

48198

5.56 Bonded SP

10-24-17, 20:22

I DID look closely.

I've also had an actual baffle strike. You have not had a baffle strike.

It could be a bullet jacket beginning to delaminate. It could also be poor heat treat or surface treatment of the muzzle device.

Baffle strikes don't take out small chunks like that. However, a failing muzzle brake baffle is a much more likey culprit.

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Interesting, I don't know what to think. I hope the OP eventually figures out what the problem is/was.
I don't think I have ever had a centerfire rifle bullet jacket fail, I wonder how common that is with the cheap fmj bullets that freedom reman uses.

Packeagle

10-24-17, 23:19

This break has just over 1000 rounds through it on my older upper.

Kdubya

10-30-17, 01:40

The jacket may have begun to fail, but that's not a baffle strike. That's gas erosion, most likey from unburnt powder particles.

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Part of the jacket coming off was my first thought. I recall a thread from not too long ago (not sure if it was here or somewhere else) regarding a jacket failure with the same ammo. The exact details are a bit foggy, but I'm pretty sure it was tied to a KB. Something like part of the jacket coming off and obstructing the bore.

Now, off to try and find the thread in question...