View Full Version : Widow vs POTUS or phone call fiasco.
Averageman
10-24-17, 06:50
I've watched this go on and on for the last week or so, it is sickening.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/10/18/totally-fabricated-trump-disputes-congresswomans-depiction-of-his-exchange-with-soldiers-widow/?utm_term=.0ed65ec4f546
Sgt. La David T. Johnson’s mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, told The Washington Post that she was present during the call from the White House on Tuesday to Johnson’s widow, Myeshia Johnson. She also stood by an account of the call from Rep. Frederica S. Wilson (D-Fla.) that Trump told Myeshia Johnson that her husband “must have known what he signed up for.”
“President Trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband,” Jones-Johnson said.
“I didn’t say what that congresswoman said; didn’t say it all. She knows it,” Trump said when asked about the exchange by a reporter. “I had a very nice conversation with the woman, with the wife who was — sounded like a lovely woman. Did not say what the congresswoman said, and most people aren’t too surprised to hear that.”
I would like to think perhaps there was a terrible misunderstanding, however as political as this has become I am thinking not, it looks more and more like a "Hit Piece".
So who would take such a call on speaker phone? Who would do so with the opposition of the POTUS, someone who has called for his impeachment in the car while on speaker phone?
And not to get too snarky, but the interviews of the Widow do not bode well for her story.
I believe it was all staged. What is the chance of Wilson even knowing Johnson before she lost her husband? Imagine this scenario... WH staff calls Johnson and tells her POTUS will be calling... What's a good time and number? This gets leaked to Wilson who sets up the sting. Johnson is convinced by Wilson that the evil racist president dissed her.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-24-17, 08:33
Kelly stepped into and tracked doo-doo all over in his first big political outing. Who woud have thought there was tape of the Miami event... I really do think that we have a low IQ congresswoman and Trumps ability to F up simple English colliding. In his head and somehow he said something like Kelly alluded to- that even knowing the risks these guys did their job, and the congresswoman and the wife heard him say something similar, but with a different meaning.
I’m sure the congresswoman had been riling up the woman all day too. When you don’t like someone, you are far more likely to not hear exactly what the person is saying and take anything that could be taken negatively, negatively.
Throw in Trump’s no retreat and only attack gestalt, and this is where you end up.
What a mess.
“President Trump did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband,” Jones-Johnson said.
I fail to see how. Per usual, smooth he was not, but none it remotely seemed intended in any way as disrespectful. Words used and intent are what matter. I suspect that will be the last call to widow's from POTUS thanx to this fiasco that didn't need to exist.
I feel sorry for people until I dont.
Like Cindy Sheehan, this got old fast over a perceived humbug.
He's dead, he is not coming back, he was killed in action, and he died with his team. He knew what he was getting into and on he marched.
Turning this into a "Aaaw HELL NAW" is not doing much for his memory.
We went from Fallen Green Beret to "Giiirl you know how Trump disaspected me?! AW HELL NAAAAW"
The other three families haven't said anything so you know....they can cry all they want. My sympathy lies with the soldier. Tired of hearing his loudmouth folks and the congresswoman from Florida with the tacky hat
Trump quote:
https://scontent.ftol1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22549622_959698360836284_3321398889046814001_n.jpg?oh=161d7dbd63832dfb8c6df52d9ae324a9&oe=5A67C814
Wings,
I don't think Sheehan and this lady are the same deal.
Sheehan had a back trail of acting on her convictions and she did so without prompting of any politician.
This lady is a victim of an opportunistic politician.
Doc Safari
10-24-17, 10:16
You watch: somehow the mother will be outed as a BLM supporter or something similar who had an agenda regardless of her son's fate.
Trump quote:
https://scontent.ftol1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22549622_959698360836284_3321398889046814001_n.jpg?oh=161d7dbd63832dfb8c6df52d9ae324a9&oe=5A67C814What exactly is that website? I'm not saying it's BS but it could have been put up by a 4th grader.
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Somebody had an ax to grind and I don't think it was Trump. Some people seem to parse every word looking for offense. And now the poor widow is just another leftist toadie, and as soon as the left gets all the mileage they can out of this, which ain't much, they'll throw her in the "who cares" trash can.
Wings,
I don't think Sheehan and this lady are the same deal.
Sheehan had a back trail of acting on her convictions and she did so without prompting of any politician.
This lady is a victim of an opportunistic politician.
This is true. Irksome as it was she put her money where her mouth is.
Still got old.
Meanwhile no one has been talking about this, Operation Cross Country (https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/operation-cross-country-xi).
Seems like those who did give it a mention allowed it get buried by the 24hour news cycle.
Meanwhile no one has been talking about this, Operation Cross Country (https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/operation-cross-country-xi).
Seems like those who did give it a mention allowed it get buried by the 24hour news cycle.That was in the news for all of a day
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That's the problem in this country.
We focus on the bullshit and ignore the real shit.
Wings,
I don't think Sheehan and this lady are the same deal.
Sheehan had a back trail of acting on her convictions and she did so without prompting of any politician.
This lady is a victim of an opportunistic politician.
Don’t see how the wife, or mother are victims. How would the empty barrel have known of the pending call? Why would anyone allow someone third party to eves drop on a private call? Sorry, but they chose to allow this wench into their lives. That’s not a victim, in my book.
This whole fiasco is a bunch of fabricated BS. The useful idiots of the DNC are running out of ideas with which to smear the president, so they are letting anything fly. Simple as that.
No !
We don't !
The media does !
The level of apologists for Trump's **** ups has long surpassed the Obama Kool-Aid Drinker's...
Basic communication dictates that you are responsible for making sure that your message is received/perceived correctly. I don't think that Trump intentionally was trying to **** this up, he's just not good at talking when it's anything other than shameless self-promotion. Couple with that with non-existent humility and he just can't come out and say, "If that's what she took away from the call, I apologize. That's not at all what I was trying to say, perhaps I could have chosen my words more carefully. I am deeply sorry for her personal loss and the loss of the nation." Instead he has to go out and basically call a Gold Star Widow a liar and even has some of you questioning the motives of a Gold Star Family for the crime of, not confirming his version of events. Rotten leadership often breeds rotten followers. I'm starting to see a lot of so-called "conservatives" for what they really are... Unprincipled partisans.
skywalkrNCSU
10-24-17, 14:48
The level of apologists for Trump's **** ups has long surpassed the Obama Kool-Aid Drinker's...
Basic communication dictates that you are responsible for making sure that your message is received/perceived correctly. I don't think that Trump intentionally was trying to **** this up, he's just not good at talking when it's anything other than shameless self-promotion. Couple with that with non-existent humility and he just can't come out and say, "If that's what she took away from the call, I apologize. That's not at all what I was trying to say, perhaps I could have chosen my words more carefully. I am deeply sorry for her personal loss and the loss of the nation." Instead he has to go out and basically call a Gold Star Widow a liar and even has some of you questioning the motives of a Gold Star Family for the crime of, not confirming his version of events. Rotten leadership often breeds rotten followers. I'm starting to see a lot of so-called "conservatives" for what they really are... Unprincipled partisans.
You mean to tell me that there would be a different reaction here if this occurred with Obama? I for one believe that in that case the M4C community would stand up for the president and call out the media for the hit piece journalism that they are spewing.
Don’t see how the wife, or mother are victims. How would the empty barrel have known of the pending call? Why would anyone allow someone third party to eves drop on a private call? Sorry, but they chose to allow this wench into their lives. That’s not a victim, in my book.
Just my thoughts, I have NO inside knowledge of how President Trump does things. I would imagine that any President is pretty much the slave to a schedule of events. How hard is it to get info on what the President is doing in the Oval Office in terms of meet and greets, etc. Plus, there has to be some arrangements made to ensure that 1) the families are willing to talk to the President and that 2) they are available when the President calls.
Taking that into consideration the Congresswoman either has a staffer find out, or has a staffer contact the family and ask them to let them know so they can be there to pay there 'respects.'
Now, if you voted for the Congresswoman, or think her party represents your best interests, would you tell them to pack sand? Probably not.
The rest of the story just depends on how gullible you are.
Regardless of how it played out, from what I've read Sgt Johnson performed admirably under fire, ultimately at the cost of his life. I'm proud to call he and SSG's Black, Wright and Johnson, as well as the two wounded Green Berets, fellow American's. As we all are.
This whole fiasco is a bunch of fabricated BS. The useful idiots of the DNC are running out of ideas with which to smear the president, so they are letting anything fly. Simple as that.
What sickens me is that this shitshow will taint the memories that all the families have.
You mean to tell me that there would be a different reaction here if this occurred with Obama? I for one believe that in that case the M4C community would stand up for the president and call out the media for the hit piece journalism that they are spewing.
No it would not have......... He wouldn't have even called. Well, I sure he would have for that SGT but not the rest of them.
No it would not have......... He wouldn't have even called. Well, I sure he would have for that SGT but not the rest of them.
How does one convince themselves of such thoughts?
How does one convince themselves of such thoughts?
Looking at the man's record and continuing to apply the same actions as occurred prior. It is not really difficult. Basic logic.
skywalkrNCSU
10-24-17, 15:56
How does one convince themselves of such thoughts?
Lots of Fox News
Looking at the man's record and continuing to apply the same actions as occurred prior. It is not really difficult. Basic logic.
Okay. Show me the man's record or any reputable reporting of Obama only making condolence calls to minority families. And when you don't find any, because we both know that it's complete & utter B.S. you can come to your senses, admit your fault and do better the next time.
FFS you guys have me defending Obama...
obama would have said you know your husband was murdering innocent muslims and deserved what he got for acting stupidly!
Okay. Show me the man's record or any reputable reporting of Obama only making condolence calls to minority families. And when you don't find any, because we both know that it's complete & utter B.S. you can come to your senses, admit your fault and do better the next time.
FFS you guys have me defending Obama...
His history is of race-baiting....... Period. He is a racist and projects it to others. Remember the he could have been my son? I can't believe that I have to even explain this.
I am out of this conversation. Good day.
His history is of race-baiting....... Period. He is a racist and projects it to others. Remember the he could have been my son? I can't believe that I have to even explain this.
I am out of this conversation. Good day.
If you're frustrated that you have to explain that Obama is an infectious racist, it may be because you're living in an echo chamber and no one has challenged you on it. Just sayin'. Good day to you too sir.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-24-17, 17:21
His history is of race-baiting....... Period. He is a racist and projects it to others. Remember the he could have been my son? I can't believe that I have to even explain this.
I am out of this conversation. Good day.
If Obama had a son,,,, where did I hear that before?
Hummm. Can’t remember,....
If Barry did have a son, he’d have been a Rasberry Beret Delayed Dev GRU RECON Heli medic ninja. For Kenya. Or Indonesia. Barry was very good at imagining what his soon would be like.
Doc Safari
10-24-17, 17:41
Remember Obama's quote "White folks greed rules a world in need."
That should tell you chapter, verse, and book everything you need to know about Barack Hussein Obama.
Remember Obama's quote "White folks greed rules a world in need."
That should tell you chapter, verse, and book everything you need to know about Barack Hussein Obama.
That was Jeremiah Wright who was quoted in Obama's book IIRC.
Kelly stepped into and tracked doo-doo all over in his first big political outing. Who woud have thought there was tape of the Miami event...
Did you watch the whole 15-20 minutes? Because if you did and all you found worthy of commenting on was one unimportant detail he got wrong... it just deeply and completely saddens me.
I'm not surprised but saddened by the fact the media didn't ask the Congresswoman why she would go public rather than ask the President for a private apology. Or if she got permission from the widow to go public. But she must have, how offensive would it be to release something so private without permission? Now I'm wondering why the Congresswoman was listening in the first place? I have to follow this were it leads, but I really, really don't want to. Are these the actions of a grieving widow or a premeditated political attack?
And once, just once couldn't Trump take the high road? A short, simple, apology and then just say it's inappropriate to talk about any more.
Sad.
Sad.
Sad, all the way around just so sad.
No it would not have......... He wouldn't have even called. Well, I sure he would have for that SGT but not the rest of them.
Oh, no you dint........
That was Jeremiah Wright who was quoted in Obama's book IIRC.
If you don't understand that Obama is a racist, I'm not sure anyone can help you.
Trump communicated inartfully as usual. Hardcore racists seize on his inartfulness to score political points as usual. Trump administration doubles down on stupid and eye rolling bread and circuses ensue. Wash, rinse repeat. We have at least three more years of this tit for tat idiocy, whereafter the script may or may not flip before resuming bad business as usual. So you might want to pace yourself. :(
Quite honestly, with the outcry by that stupid bitch with the cowboy hats, I was waiting for some race-baiter in the public eye to suggest that Sgt. Johnson was left behind because he was black. That hasn't happened yet and I'm very glad it hasn't. That doesn't mean the idea hasn't been floated out there but surely someone would have enough sense to realize that something like that is WAAAYYY out of bounds.......
If you don't understand that Obama is a racist, I'm not sure anyone can help you.
Trump communicated inartfully as usual. Hardcore racists seize on his inartfulness to score political points as usual. Trump administration doubles down on stupid and eye rolling bread and circuses ensue. Wash, rinse repeat. We have at least three more years of this tit for tat idiocy, whereafter the script may or may not flip before resuming bad business as usual. So you might want to pace yourself. :(
You know, while Trump is nearly as artful at speaking as Andrew Dice Clay, I for one am loving the fact that finally someone has enough balls to get right back in the left's faces. It's about time.
If you don't understand that Obama is a racist, I'm not sure anyone can help you.
I don't think that I need help understanding what a racist is. I just don't think that Obama is... or even Trump for that matter. I believe that having a racial bias is more accurate at least one could argue the degree and agree that it exists and that we all have it.
You know, while Trump is nearly as artful at speaking as Andrew Dice Clay, I for one am loving the fact that finally someone has enough balls to get right back in the left's faces. It's about time.
At least there's that. Too many of the RINO cucks are wetting their pants every time someone says Republicans are evil. :(
You know, while Trump is nearly as artful at speaking as Andrew Dice Clay, I for one am loving the fact that finally someone has enough balls to get right back in the left's faces. It's about time.
I cannot begin to tell you how immature and ineffective that is. Leave the shit talking to the left to Rush and Levin, they're better at it.
Man this thread has reached China already
I don't think that I need help understanding what a racist is. I just don't think that Obama is... or even Trump for that matter. I believe that having a racial bias is more accurate at least one could argue the degree and agree that it exists and that we all have it.
By logical standards you're correct. By the standards of today's political discourse, Obama must be a racist in order to counter the Trump as racist idiocy.
I cannot begin to tell you how immature and ineffective that is. Leave the shit talking to the left to Rush and Levin, they're better at it.
If we played by those rules last year, you'd be saying "Madam President" this year. It's not just effective, it's damned effective! :)
I cannot begin to tell you how immature and ineffective that is. Leave the shit talking to the left to Rush and Levin, they're better at it.
I really don't care what you think it is. If you are convinced that everyone is just soooo put out by Trump's ramming it down their throats then you are deluding yourself. MANY people are tired of the right rolling over and acting like pussies. How do you think he got elected?
One more time, for the record: I for one am loving the fact that finally someone has enough balls to get right back in the left's faces. It's about time.
Man this thread has reached China already
Sad, again.
This should be about both sides failure, by turning the death of service member into political bullshit.
Knock off the petty attacks on the current or former President and show a little respect for those who gave their life for our Country.
SeriousStudent
10-24-17, 19:22
Knock off the personal attacks or you'll be gone. Only warning.
You mean to tell me that there would be a different reaction here if this occurred with Obama? I for one believe that in that case the M4C community would stand up for the president and call out the media for the hit piece journalism that they are spewing.
Could not agree more.
For the party that really cares about veterans, they seem to be supporting a guy who shit on McCain's POW experience, among other slights to veterans.
I really don't care what you think it is. If you are convinced that everyone is just soooo put out by Trump's ramming it down their throats then you are deluding yourself. MANY people are tired of the right rolling over and acting like pussies. How do you think he got elected?
One more time, for the record: I for one am loving the fact that finally someone has enough balls to get right back in the left's faces. It's about time.
You can take solace in the fact that he barely won against a candidate as weak and as flawed as Hillary. I'll just point out that he's accomplished nothing, unless "getting right back in the left's (or right's, or the middle's) faces" is considered an accomplishment. Because I sure as hell don't.
No it would not have......... He wouldn't have even called. Well, I sure he would have for that SGT but not the rest of them.
You might want to fact check that.
Edited: Didn't think what I wrote was an attack, but didn't want to take chances.
Sgt. La David Johnson is at rest.
It sounds like he lived this... and Lord, if today is truly the day you are to call me home, Let me die in a pile of brass.
“He was the best kid you could ask for,” the survivor said of Johnson, who fought back the militants with machine gun fire from the back of a pickup truck, before grabbing a sniper rifle and continuing to shoot.
“The guy is a true war hero,” the survivor added. “I really want his wife and kids to know that.”
Exactly how and where Johnson died remains unclear, but the survivor praised him as a “war hero” who went “above and beyond” to defend his team.
“Without a doubt, his courage and bravery in action that day were above and beyond expectation. He died fighting for his brothers on his team. You can quote that verbatim,” the survivor added. “He grabbed any and every weapon available to him. The guy is a true war hero.”
The survivor described an all-out effort to find Johnson during those 48 hours, saying he was missing, but presumed alive.
“Until his death was confirmed, every asset was devoted to recovering him,” the survivor said. “We threw everything we had at it… Literally hundreds of people were focused on getting La David back.”
It was Nigerien forces that eventually found Johnson’s body, according to Dunford.
Brave men, all.
Averageman
10-25-17, 02:40
An interesting little ditty here;
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/10/24/ex-green-beret-says-what-special-forces-really-think-about-niger-goes-viral-on-twitter/
Special Forces veteran Dr. Mike Simpson isn’t impressed by the way the Niger incident is being exploited by liberals like Congresswoman Frederica Wilson as a cheap way of attacking Donald Trump.
What follows is worth reading.
Sgt. La David Johnson is at rest.
It sounds like he lived this... and Lord, if today is truly the day you are to call me home, Let me die in a pile of brass.
“He was the best kid you could ask for,” the survivor said of Johnson, who fought back the militants with machine gun fire from the back of a pickup truck, before grabbing a sniper rifle and continuing to shoot.
“The guy is a true war hero,” the survivor added. “I really want his wife and kids to know that.”
Exactly how and where Johnson died remains unclear, but the survivor praised him as a “war hero” who went “above and beyond” to defend his team.
“Without a doubt, his courage and bravery in action that day were above and beyond expectation. He died fighting for his brothers on his team. You can quote that verbatim,” the survivor added. “He grabbed any and every weapon available to him. The guy is a true war hero.”
The survivor described an all-out effort to find Johnson during those 48 hours, saying he was missing, but presumed alive.
“Until his death was confirmed, every asset was devoted to recovering him,” the survivor said. “We threw everything we had at it… Literally hundreds of people were focused on getting La David back.”
It was Nigerien forces that eventually found Johnson’s body, according to Dunford.
Brave men, all.
And that is what it all comes down to. The "how" of his death seems to be fitting of the way we see our fighting men and women. Brave, not cowering under fire. He was a support guy too, but sounds like he fought right there with the long-tabbers giving them hell. Too bad it will be overshadowed by a stumbling phone call and those who are trying their best to make political hay of it.
I really hope that account of his last moments goes viral the way everything else about it has.
Doc Safari
10-25-17, 09:11
That was Jeremiah Wright who was quoted in Obama's book IIRC.
And the fact that Obama quoted it gives it his tacit approval in my book.
Averageman
10-25-17, 09:27
I dunno, everytime a Liberal stands up to defend the Military it sounds like a load of crap to me.
I'm old enough to remember how they were and how they treated returning Vets in the 60's and 70's, so if I am a bit jaded it's because of watching that stuff go down in real time.
I can honestly say that I don't think many of those serving on the pointy end of the spear with me in my 20+ years were Liberals, if they were, it didn't last long.
And the fact that Obama quoted it gives it his tacit approval in my book.You're prepared to make that determination without reading the book or at least the passage in question to gain context? Or is that too much to ask of people these days?
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Doc Safari
10-25-17, 09:55
You're prepared to make that determination without reading the book or at least the passage in question to gain context? Or is that too much to ask of people these days?
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That's not the only thing I base my opinion on. He also stated that his grandmother was a typical white person afraid of black people. That is about as racist a comment as I can think of.
Of course you'll find some way to dispute that one, too, but there are plenty of things Mr. O did and said that would lead any objective person to conclude that he is a racist. I'm not even going to waste my time trying to prove it any further because you've already made up your mind.
That's not the only thing I base my opinion on. He also stated that his grandmother was a typical white person afraid of black people. That is about as racist a comment as I can think of.
Of course you'll find some way to dispute that one, too, but there are plenty of things Mr. O did and said that would lead any objective person to conclude that he is a racist. I'm not even going to waste my time trying to prove it any further because you've already made up your mind.I don't see anything factually wrong with that statement. Whites hold all kinds of biased views of blacks. Including that they don't work as hard, aren't as intelligent, and are more likely to commit crimes... I'm speaking I'm generalizations here obviously, but this is documented.
But you are correct in assuming that you'll not convince me of something that just isn't true.
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Doc Safari
10-25-17, 10:21
I don't see anything factually wrong with that statement.
And that right there is a racist statement in and of itself. I am not stating that to be nasty but to illustrate that when painting any group with a broad brush to say that there is a "typical" whatever is in and of itself racist.
It's like saying "Jews are typically stingy" or "Black people are typically lower class criminals."
Saying "typical white person" is de facto a racist statement, just like saying "typical Jew" or "typical black person" are inherently racist statements. Unfortunately, sir, you have outed yourself for where you are truly coming from. And I say that will all due respect because I believe any person has a right to be racist if they so choose. I'm in favor of freedom. I just do not think you can hide your bias any longer.
And that right there is a racist statement in and of itself. I am not stating that to be nasty but to illustrate that when painting any group with a broad brush to say that there is a "typical" whatever is in and of itself racist.
It's like saying "Jews are typically stingy" or "Black people are typically lower class criminals."
Saying "typical white person" is de facto a racist statement, just like saying "typical Jew" or "typical black person" are inherently racist statements. Unfortunately, sir, you have outed yourself for where you are truly coming from. And I say that will all due respect because I believe any person has a right to be racist if they so choose. I'm in favor of freedom. I just do not think you can hide your bias any longer.I don't assume malice in your replies. Hide my bias? I've admitted as much. We're all biased, we're not all racist. I don't understand your aversion to generalized statements based on recorded data though. Sometimes the truth is ugly and it hurts but pretending that it's not true (even if not in all cases) doesn't move anyone forward.
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I don't see anything factually wrong with that statement. Whites hold all kinds of biased views of blacks. Including that they don't work as hard, aren't as intelligent, and are more likely to commit crimes... I'm speaking I'm generalizations here obviously, but this is documented.
But you are correct in assuming that you'll not convince me of something that just isn't true.
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What white people are you hanging out with or is this just a broad brush racist statement? Hopefully you have actually got these "white people" to cop to these evil beliefs and wicked assumptions before you go about accusing folks. Documented? Really? Nobody asked me, or any white person I've ever known.
What white people are you hanging out with or is this just a broad brush racist statement? Hopefully you have actually got these "white people" to cop to these evil beliefs and wicked assumptions before you go about accusing folks. Documented? Really? Nobody asked me, or any white person I've ever known.The polls are out there, and anecdotally, yes I have had people cop to it. Friends even. I still don't consider them evil or wicked people, just biased like everyone else.
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I don't see anything factually wrong with that statement. Whites hold all kinds of biased views of blacks. Including that they don't work as hard, aren't as intelligent, and are more likely to commit crimes... I'm speaking I'm generalizations here obviously, but this is documented.
But you are correct in assuming that you'll not convince me of something that just isn't true.
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Correct or not, it is racist - by definition.
There’s a lot of factually correct stuff that supports bigoted thoughts - that doesn’t make it right. People should be viewed as individuals, not parts of groups.
Believing racism is acceptable is pretty messed up, especially when it’s not acceptable from a different race.
Moral of the story, is that race has nothing to do with the OP.
Sometimes the truth is ugly and it hurts but pretending that it's not true doesn't move anyone forward.
Quoted for truth.
A couple things:
1. I fail to see where what President Obama, or President Bush, for that matter, did or didn't do regarding their responses to Gold Star families has anything to do with President Trump's well-meaning, but fumbled, attempt to pay the Nation's respect to Sgt. Johnson's widow. These types of comparisons smack of schoolyard arguments 'Well, Timmy did it, so.....' We are all guilty of partaking in them at one time of another, we need to try to be better.
2. Regarding President Obama's remarks about his Grandmother being fearful of black folks, why is that so hard to believe? Consider the era she would have grown up in, look at what was going on. Both of my Grandmothers were racists, one benevolent, the other hateful. It was the times they grew up in, as well as where they grew up and who raised them. To just arbitrarily say that such statements are false, or, on the other hand, implying that the utterance of them is racist, is intellectually dishonest.
3. I do believe that some members of this forum are willfully obtuse on this issue and other subjects.
Let's get back to celebrating the memories of our fallen Warriors.
The polls are out there, and anecdotally, yes I have had people cop to it. Friends even. I still don't consider them evil or wicked people, just biased like everyone else.
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Really polls? White people copping to being racists in polls.......oh my aching whatever. So are you a racist who holds to these views, or is it just your wayward friends that hold these views? When you say that everyone is biased, does that mean that black, brown and whatever people that aren't white hold to similar racists views?
Averageman
10-25-17, 15:42
You don't have to be a racist to appear to be a racist by someone who is having an emotional event. There is reality and perception, emotion driven decisions are hardly ever good.
I would guess while in a very emotional state, this young widow was vulnerable to the manipulation used by a professional politician who is a near master of both manipulation and race baiting.
You know, if that's the case I feel sorry for her and hope she can forgive herself later when the grief lifts and she comes back to reality.
God bless her and her children.
You might want to fact check that.
Actually it's pretty telling how little the media knows or cares, unless it's to attack Trump. They immediately "fact checked" Trump as lying when he said Obama didn't or rarely called. But they never offered any evidence, and eventually some admit Obama's standard practice was to write condolence letters.
Really polls? White people copping to being racists in polls.......oh my aching whatever. So are you a racist who holds to these views, or is it just your wayward friends that hold these views? When you say that everyone is biased, does that mean that black, brown and whatever people that aren't white hold to similar racists views?Of course minorities hold different biased views of other races. They're human too. But my personal biases are different than those mentioned. We can probably start a different thread if you want to go that deep. This one has strayed far off the original topic.
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You don't have to be a racist to appear to be a racist by someone who is having an emotional event. There is reality and perception, emotion driven decisions are hardly ever good.
I would guess while in a very emotional state, this young widow was vulnerable to the manipulation used by a professional politician who is a near master of both manipulation and race baiting.
You know, if that's the case I feel sorry for her and hope she can forgive herself later when the grief lifts and she comes back to reality.
God bless her and her children.
Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I thought I read somewhere that Sgt. Johnson's family is friends with Frederica Wilson? After all, she was in the car with the widow when the phone call occurred. As a matter of fact I just found it in a WaPo article:
Perhaps Kelly, who also listened to the call, would be less stunned if he realized that Wilson’s primary identity to the Johnson family isn’t as a member of Congress. The Johnsons have known Wilson for decades — most of those years before the former educator moved to Washington to join Congress.
I would venture a guess to say that if they're that close with Wilson (which stands to reason if she was in the car with them in Dover), then it stands to reason that they know and support Wilson's race based identity politics.
None of which makes a lick of difference regarding Sgt. Johnson's service, sacrifice and by all accounts from his fellow soldiers, heroic actions during the fight. IMO, there's only one completely innocent party in this tit for tat political game and that's Sgt. Johnson.
The moral of this story is "be careful who you accuse of evil things", make sure you actually know beyond a reasonable doubt that someone has thought, said, or done racist things before you fall into slandering someone unjustly. The left has no problem whatsoever with lying and slandering about pretty much anything. They have ALWAYS been like this.....it's what they do. So like AM said, maybe this poor woman will come to her senses down the road, but right now she just another useful idiot.
You know, bringing up race is kind of taking the bait.
DJT doesn't have much tact, he was advised against it, had good intentions, and now, its more BS.
Hopefully he learns. A phonecall from Top would have meant more and generated less BS than from the President but then again soldier's family could have said no thanks.
Lets view this as a teachable moment for DJT and push on
Moose-Knuckle
10-25-17, 18:33
The level of apologists for Trump's **** ups has long surpassed the Obama Kool-Aid Drinker's...
You've been a member here since 2007 . . . :blink:
Moose-Knuckle
10-25-17, 18:39
Whites hold all kinds of biased views of blacks. Including that they don't work as hard, aren't as intelligent, and are more likely to commit crimes... I'm speaking I'm generalizations here obviously, but this is documented.
This just in . . .
Blacks hold all kinds of biased views of whites. Including that they don't work as hard, aren't as intelligent, and are more likely to commit crimes. Oh and that whole "White privilege" thing and all that is very well documented.
Averageman
10-25-17, 18:44
Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I thought I read somewhere that Sgt. Johnson's family is friends with Frederica Wilson? After all, she was in the car with the widow when the phone call occurred. As a matter of fact I just found it in a WaPo article:
I would venture a guess to say that if they're that close with Wilson (which stands to reason if she was in the car with them in Dover), then it stands to reason that they know and support Wilson's race based identity politics.
Perhaps, but how likely is that to be true?
I remember going from E-1 to E-5, I barely had enough scratch to make ends meet, paying the dry cleaning bill was sometimes an event. Perhaps they attended the same local Church and had the occasional handshake or head nod. I'm guessing Wilson wasn't dropping in for Hamburger Helper with extra noodles to stretch the recipe for guests.
None of which makes a lick of difference regarding Sgt. Johnson's service, sacrifice and by all accounts from his fellow soldiers, heroic actions during the fight. IMO, there's only one completely innocent party in this tit for tat political game and that's Sgt. Johnson.
I might guess you to be correct.
You know, bringing up race is kind of taking the bait.
DJT doesn't have much tact, he was advised against it, had good intentions, and now, its more BS.
Hopefully he learns. A phonecall from Top would have meant more and generated less BS than from the President but then again soldier's family could have said no thanks.
Lets view this as a teachable moment for DJT and push on
You know, I've got to say that if I was POTUS I would feel the need to express my heartfelt condolences personally; it happened on my watch, and I am CinC. Hopefully I'm a little less bumbling than Trump was, but I honestly think he had good intentions (sounds like that Southern "Bless his heart" thing :D).
Averageman
10-25-17, 18:59
This just in . . .
Blacks hold all kinds of biased views of whites. Including that they don't work as hard, aren't as intelligent, and are more likely to commit crimes. Oh and that whole "White privilege" thing and all that is very well documented.
LOL, I'm not kidding you, my ex's sister used to call me some pretty foul names, "That M'F'ing White Devil" being my personal favorite.
It's not just white people holding a market on some ridiculous bias, stereotypes and prejudices. Once you understand that it's always kind of fun to rub it in and make a point of it.
Occasionally my Son who is in Nursing has caught hell a time or two from some Black Women who are a decade older and now work for him, when the tensions get high he invites his "Black Grandma' to come to the Hospital and have lunch with him. Amazing how that works.
SeriousStudent
10-25-17, 19:34
You're prepared to make that determination without reading the book or at least the passage in question to gain context? Or is that too much to ask of people these days?
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What part of "knock it off" is not clear in post number 43?
Moose-Knuckle
10-26-17, 04:10
LOL, I'm not kidding you, my ex's sister used to call me some pretty foul names, "That M'F'ing White Devil" being my personal favorite.
It's not just white people holding a market on some ridiculous bias, stereotypes and prejudices. Once you understand that it's always kind of fun to rub it in and make a point of it.
Occasionally my Son who is in Nursing has caught hell a time or two from some Black Women who are a decade older and now work for him, when the tensions get high he invites his "Black Grandma' to come to the Hospital and have lunch with him. Amazing how that works.
I have a very good friend and former colleague who is White, freaking huge at 6'-7". His ex-wife is Black, his current wife is Black, their adopted son is Black. We use to go to lunch on his days off before my shift started, we'd get some stares seeing two White dudes (one being huge) with a cute little Black boy. We always got people going and just pretended to be gay lol. Anyway, he told me a story once that at a former job of his one of his employees who was a Black female filed a complaint against him to his Black male supervisor. His supervisor called him in and asked him if what she accused him of was true, that he called her the "n-word". He denied it and the supervisor believed him because he knew him. He then called in the female who filed the complaint, the supervisor asked her again if he in fact called her a racial slur. She of course maintained her story. The supervisor then asked my buddy to pull out his wallet and show her his family photos of his wife and their son. The ladies eyes got as big as saucers and an oh shit look came over her face. The Black male supervisor then dismissed my buddy so he could deal with the lying POS employee. My buddy could hear him rip her a new from down the hall through a closed door, something akin to people like you give us all bad names and all that.
I got tons more stories, but yeah it's funny when that shit comes full circle on people.
when I lived in the Caribbean they would call that a "cafe con leche"
not derogatory either more just what it is :)
I have a very good friend and former colleague who is White, freaking huge at 6'-7". His ex-wife is Black, his current wife is Black, their adopted son is Black. We use to go to lunch on his days off before my shift started, we'd get some stares seeing two White dudes (one being huge) with a cute little Black boy. We always got people going and just pretended to be gay lol. Anyway, he told me a story once that at a former job of his one of his employees who was a Black female filed a complaint against him to his Black male supervisor. His supervisor called him in and asked him if what she accused him of was true, that he called her the "n-word". He denied it and the supervisor believed him because he knew him. He then called in the female who filed the complaint, the supervisor asked her again if he in fact called her a racial slur. She of course maintained her story. The supervisor then asked my buddy to pull out his wallet and show her his family photos of his wife and their son. The ladies eyes got as big as saucers and an oh shit look came over her face. The Black male supervisor then dismissed my buddy so he could deal with the lying POS employee. My buddy could hear him rip her a new from down the hall through a closed door, something akin to people like you give us all bad names and all that.
I got tons more stories, but yeah it's funny when that shit comes full circle on people.
And that is what it all comes down to. The "how" of his death seems to be fitting of the way we see our fighting men and women. Brave, not cowering under fire. He was a support guy too, but sounds like he fought right there with the long-tabbers giving them hell. Too bad it will be overshadowed by a stumbling phone call and those who are trying their best to make political hay of it.
I really hope that account of his last moments goes viral the way everything else about it has.
So he wasn’t a Green Beret? His pic shows the SF DUI on a 3rd Group flash?
Honestly asking as I have no idea how that works.
So he wasn’t a Green Beret? His pic shows the SF DUI on a 3rd Group flash?
Honestly asking as I have no idea how that works.My understanding: He was EOD or Ordinance, not SF. Collar insignia indicates branch. In or attached to the SF unit, so wears the unit patch and flash. But not the Green Beret, as no SF (long) tab even though he was in SF unit. Did wear maroon Beret as unit is on jump status, as was Johnson.
Beret normally would be based on the unit (maroon, tan or black). SF is a bit different. While in SF unit you wear green Beret if long tab, maroon if not.
My understanding: He was EOD or Ordinance, not SF. Collar insignia indicates branch. In or attached to the SF unit, so wears the unit patch and flash. But not the Green Beret, as no SF (long) tab even though he was in SF unit. Did wear maroon Beret as unit is on jump status, as was Johnson.
Beret normally would be based on the unit (maroon, tan or black). SF is a bit different. While in SF unit you wear green Beret if long tab, maroon if not.
He was a light wheeled vehicle mechanic (63B).
Everyone on Jump Status wears a Maroon Beret. The maroon beret is an organizational thing. If a unit is airborne then everyone in that unit wears it, even if they are not airborne qualified. You see a lot of that in XVIII Airborne Corps were people are not Airborne qualified yet wear the maroon beret because the unit is Airborne.
Everyone in USASOC is on jump status, well, they are supposed to be. That means at a minimum that they will wear a Maroon beret, green if there are SF and tan if they are in, or were ever in Ranger Regiment.
My understanding: He was EOD or Ordinance, not SF. Collar insignia indicates branch. In or attached to the SF unit, so wears the unit patch and flash. But not the Green Beret, as no SF (long) tab even though he was in SF unit. Did wear maroon Beret as unit is on jump status, as was Johnson.
Beret normally would be based on the unit (maroon, tan or black). SF is a bit different. While in SF unit you wear green Beret if long tab, maroon if not.
He was a light wheeled vehicle mechanic (63B).
Everyone on Jump Status wears a Maroon Beret. The maroon beret is an organizational thing. If a unit is airborne then everyone in that unit wears it, even if they are not airborne qualified. You see a lot of that in XVIII Airborne Corps were people are not Airborne qualified yet wear the maroon beret because the unit is Airborne.
Everyone in USASOC is on jump status, well, they are supposed to be. That means at a minimum that they will wear a Maroon beret, green if there are SF and tan if they are in, or were ever in Ranger Regiment.
Thanks guys. Learn something new every day. I assumed if one sports the “De Oppresso Liber” unit insignia that they had to be SF.
Not that it matters in this instance. Man did his job.
RIP.
He was a light wheeled vehicle mechanic (63B).
I'll defer to your insight. Knew La David Johnson was reported as a light mechanic MOS, I was addressing the question on his picture. Branch insignia sure appears to be ordinance to me:
http://flsentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/sgt.-la-david-johnson.jpg
The other Johnson was also not SF (reported as Chemical, Biological, Radiological, and Nuclear Specialist 74D)
Everyone on Jump Status wears a Maroon Beret. The maroon beret is an organizational thing. If a unit is airborne then everyone in that unit wears it, even if they are not airborne qualified. You see a lot of that in XVIII Airborne Corps were people are not Airborne qualified yet wear the maroon beret because the unit is Airborne.
Everyone in USASOC is on jump status, well, they are supposed to be. That means at a minimum that they will wear a Maroon beret, green if there are SF and tan if they are in, or were ever in Ranger Regiment.
I think we said the same thing about the berets and orgs. Very common misconception with those of us outside the mil world, I know I did not understand it until it was 'splained to me.
Does the Crossed Arrow branch insignia follow MOS? With or without Long tab? Both? (Just curious)
I'll defer to your insight. Knew La David Johnson was reported as a light mechanic MOS, I was addressing the question on his picture. Branch insignia sure appears to be ordinance to me:
http://flsentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/sgt.-la-david-johnson.jpg
The other Johnson was also not SF (reported as Chemical, Biological, Radiological, and Nuclear Specialist 74D)
I think we said the same thing about the berets and orgs. Very common misconception with those of us outside the mil world, I know I did not understand it until it was 'splained to me.
Does the Crossed Arrow branch insignia follow MOS? With or without Long tab? Both? (Just curious)
Mechanics fall under the Ordnance Corps in the Army. That is why he is wearing that on his Label. Are you referring to the crossed Arrows on the Beret Flash? If so that is the SF regimental crest and even if you are not tabed you wear that on your head gear. If they are Tabed and are currently holding the SF MOS they will wear the crossed arrows on their lapel.
I don’t know how y’all keep it all straight.
I don’t know how y’all keep it all straight.
PFM..... Pure F#$_ing Magic. LOL
Mechanics fall under the Ordnance Corps in the Army. That is why he is wearing that on his Label. Are you referring to the crossed Arrows on the Beret Flash? If so that is the SF regimental crest and even if you are not tabed you wear that on your head gear. If they are Tabed and are currently holding the SF MOS they will wear the crossed arrows on their lapel.
Thanks, was curious about the lapel branch insignia. So only an 18whatever AND long tab would wear the SF branch lapel insignia. And thanks for the beret insignia clarification, many nuances, it appears.
And had no idea mechanics were ordinance, I would have guessed transpo or similar. That's what threw me when they first posted the pics, yet mentioned light mechanic.
Made more confusing by multiple media references to "Four Green Berets...". Which made me take a look at the pics in detail.
Doc Safari
10-26-17, 09:41
La David Johnson was a brave patriot and I hope his soul is at rest.
(This thread would just about wake the dead).
PFM..... Pure F#$_ing Magic. LOL
Lol, it’d have to be [emoji106]
Many 3rd SFG support soldiers have been killed or wounded in combat. My brother-in-law was severely wounded in an IED attack in Afghanistan. He spent most of his career attached to the 3rd SFG.
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Many 3rd SFG support soldiers have been killed or wounded in combat. My brother-in-law was severely wounded in an IED attack in Afghanistan. He spent most of his career attached to the 3rd SFG.
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Sorry to hear that, Doug. I hope that you didn’t take from my question that I felt the support guys were somehow inferior to the tabbed guys. Because that was not my intent.
They are all badasses in my view.
You know, bringing up race is kind of taking the bait.
DJT doesn't have much tact, he was advised against it, had good intentions, and now, its more BS.
Hopefully he learns. A phonecall from Top would have meant more and generated less BS than from the President but then again soldier's family could have said no thanks.
Lets view this as a teachable moment for DJT and push on
I see it a bit differently.
Writing a letter is fine, and better politically, but if he really felt the call was the right thing for him to do... No way he should let that Congresswoman or CNN change that.
La David Johnson was a brave patriot and I hope his soul is at rest.
(This thread would just about wake the dead).
Agreed entirely, RIP soldiers.
With a serving son OCONUS, and also several sons and daughters of friends, my heart sinks everytime news of another loss surfaces.
This should be a political no-go zone. Any condolences or expression of appreciation should never be politicized by outsiders, no matter how artful or inarticulate.
I'd say the same if a conservative rep/family had done similar with Obama. Sometimes you have to take the high road, and recognize it was well intentioned.
I know I've accidentally said something that came out awkward when trying to do similar.
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