View Full Version : Bad Cerakote?
Hey guys,
I was going to make a post as a warning for newbies (like me) about bad cerakote jobs.
Below, I have a pic of a cerakote job which was hellish. First of all, I would go with someone who is cerakote certified just to avoid the issues I ran into. I went with a friend of a friend (gunsmith friend) who had started up a new company. When it was all done, I couldn't afford to have it redone by a real pro -just my luck.
You will see below an example where the cerakote is chipping around the trigger pin holes just from installing the pins and it is black, i.e. anodized underneath. This is a no-go. The anodizing is supposed to be removed before cerakote is applied from my understanding.
I will post more photos and comments about bad cerakote in the future.
EDIT: Anodizing should not be removed. Dyes in the anodizing should be scuffed up to accept cerakote.
Anodizing should NOT be removed before painting. Anodizing is a conversion coat that protects the aluminum. It also creates a surface with better paint adhesion.
The black that you're seeing where the paint chipped isn't the anodizing. It's the dye used during the anodizing process. Anodizing on AR receivers without dye is usually a golden color. I'm not sure how the dye affects paint adhesion. The reason your paint chipped is because it built up and when the pins were pushed through the holes, the paint had to break away to let the pins through.
I would not remove the Anodizing from a receiver I was going to have painted.
Anodizing should NOT be removed before painting. Anodizing is a conversion coat that protects the aluminum. It also creates a surface with better paint adhesion.
The black that you're seeing where the paint chipped isn't the anodizing. It's the dye used during the anodizing process. Anodizing on AR receivers without dye is usually a golden color. I'm not sure how the dye affects paint adhesion. The reason your paint chipped is because it built up and when the pins were pushed through the holes, the paint had to break away to let the pins through.
I would not remove the Anodizing from a receiver I was going to have painted.
It is my understanding that you are supposed to remove the Anodizing per the instructions. Every shop I know around here that offers the service removed it before painting. However I believe the opposite is true of duracoat.
It is my understanding that you are supposed to remove the Anodizing per the instructions. Every shop I know around here that offers the service removed it before painting. However I believe the opposite is true of duracoat.
From Cerakote's Training manual:
• Anodized parts, such as AR-15 uppers and lowers, do require blasting, however, it is not necessary to
completely remove the anodized finish. Anodized parts that have been sufficiently blasted should have
a dull, matte appearance.
You need to etch the surface for adhesion but to fully remove the Ano takes a lot of time and can lead to uneven surfaces.
Your same issue has happened with some of mine, including from certified coaters. And more than just trigger pin areas. I’ve learned to take great care when installing parts after a coating. I have also sent critical parts to coaters to install for me, ensuring everything fits well with a proper finish.
Personally, I would need to see more info before I could say this shop did a poor job.
From Cerakote's Training manual:
• Anodized parts, such as AR-15 uppers and lowers, do require blasting, however, it is not necessary to
completely remove the anodized finish. Anodized parts that have been sufficiently blasted should have
a dull, matte appearance.
You need to etch the surface for adhesion but to fully remove the Ano takes a lot of time and can lead to uneven surfaces.
Per the instructions above, it's not necessary to remove the black dye, only scuff it until it's dull. A lot of people don't know the difference between the anodizing and the dye. They see the black and think it's the anodizing. It's not. It's the dye.
I would never paint AR receivers with a paint that requires removal of the anodizing prior to application.
The reason to media blast is to give the paint something to grip. Like Mist said... The OP's problem was caused by the excess in the pin holes NOT being reamed out before assembly.
Hey guys,
I was going to make a post as a warning for newbies (like me) about bad cerakote jobs.
Below, I have a pic of a cerakote job which was hellish. First of all, I would go with someone who is cerakote certified just to avoid the issues I ran into. I went with a friend of a friend (gunsmith friend) who had started up a new company. When it was all done, I couldn't afford to have it redone by a real pro -just my luck.
You will see below an example where the cerakote is chipping around the trigger pin holes just from installing the pins and it is black, i.e. anodized underneath. This is a no-go. The anodizing is supposed to be removed before cerakote is applied from my understanding.
I will post more photos and comments about bad cerakote in the future.
It is pretty common for this to happen, enough so that most of the people installing parts know to oil or grease up areas like the FCG pins and rollpin holes. The area will obviously be tighter due to material being applied.
Regarding anodizing being removed, no, no it does not. While proper adhesion may need the scuffing of the surface, I would be more than a little irate to find some imbecile had blasted the anodizing off my receiver. Enough so that I would let them know I considered it ruined.
To the OP: if you hate the chips around the pin holes, consider some CMC trigger pins. The screw heads will cover the blemishes.
To the OP: if you hate the chips around the pin holes, consider some CMC trigger pins. The screw heads will cover the blemishes.
Good call, plus they are nice triggers. However, since he is going with a super cheap receiver, a nice trigger might not be an option...
I'll throw up some more pics later this week. Other areas of the cerakote job are lighter and look matte when the rest (and I didn't want it to) look wet/shiny. Other areas look pitted. More to come.
I was overzealous when I said it has to be removed. I looked the manual again and like everyone else said and caught my error, it's supposed to be scuffed. Also, how "Scuffed" should the anodizing be? Mine looks almost shiny underneath the cerakote.
Good call, plus they are nice triggers. However, since he is going with a super cheap receiver, a nice trigger might not be an option...
I wasn't trying to be cheap. cheap. I guess I feel cheap and stupid now.
I wasn't trying to be cheap. cheap. I guess I feel cheap and stupid now.
No reason for that. Most people are buying Anderson, PSA, Spikes or other low priced lowers are looking to go as cheap as possible on the complete build. That doesn't discount there are people who are buying the cheaper stuff and upgrading everything else.
No reason for that. Most people are buying Anderson, PSA, Spikes or other low priced lowers are looking to go as cheap as possible on the complete build. That doesn't discount there are people who are buying the cheaper stuff and upgrading everything else.
I would also like to learn about what makes a "cheap" or even high-end lower. I have heard bad things about PSA and Anderson for example, but never Aero. I didn't think there was any real difference between a solid forged lower and a billet (although the billets look nice and I wish San Tac offered a lower with full-auto markings)
I will post my builds completely when I finish them up as I would like to solicit opinions on the build.
Overall, regarding this thread. I have seen other professional cerakote jobs and how they look and compare to mine own and the paint job on mine looks iffy if not downright bad. Which I hope my experiences can prove useful for some other 25 y.o. new to ARs -if not guns in general.
Per the instructions above, it's not necessary to remove the black dye, only scuff it until it's dull. A lot of people don't know the difference between the anodizing and the dye. They see the black and think it's the anodizing. It's not. It's the dye.
I would never paint AR receivers with a paint that requires removal of the anodizing prior to application.
How scuffed?
I would also like to learn about what makes a "cheap" or even high-end lower. I have heard bad things about PSA and Anderson for example, but never Aero. I didn't think there was any real difference between a solid forged lower and a billet (although the billets look nice and I wish San Tac offered a lower with full-auto markings)
Typically the differences are in machine time, to include tolerances and specs. Off center FCG holes, tight mag wells, miscut mag catch slot, take down pin holes being off, and similar issues tend to plague lower end items. A lower that spends more time on the CNC machines, and isn't from rejected forgings is going to be of higher quality.
Hey guys,
I was going to make a post as a warning for newbies (like me) about bad cerakote jobs.
Below, I have a pic of a cerakote job which was hellish. First of all, I would go with someone who is cerakote certified just to avoid the issues I ran into. I went with a friend of a friend (gunsmith friend) who had started up a new company. When it was all done, I couldn't afford to have it redone by a real pro -just my luck.
You will see below an example where the cerakote is chipping around the trigger pin holes just from installing the pins and it is black, i.e. anodized underneath. This is a no-go. The anodizing is supposed to be removed before cerakote is applied from my understanding.
I will post more photos and comments about bad cerakote in the future.
What does a shitty paint job done by a friend of a friend and the lack of detail assembling by you have to do with the price of rice in China?? You got what you paid for in the end. You made your bed... Enjoy laying in it.
What does a shitty paint job done by a friend of a friend and the lack of detail assembling by you have to do with the price of rice in China?? You got what you paid for in the end. You made your bed... Enjoy laying in it.
There was no "lack of detail assembling by me" and the "friend of a friend" deal was simply a trusted friend, who happens to be a gunsmith, giving an unfortunate recommendation -of which he no longer does. Take care.
Anodizing should NOT be removed before painting. Anodizing is a conversion coat that protects the aluminum. It also creates a surface with better paint adhesion.
This.
Anodizing also gives the base metal increased surface hardness and wear resistance. Something that you want to maintain in areas like trigger/hammer pin holes, etc. Otherwise they will oval out much quicker.
As to the sub-par finish:
Like any other applied coating/paint, prep is key. It is critical to make sure that the piece you are spraying is completely free of all oil/grease/contaminants. This takes some effort on something like an AR receiver, with all of the nooks and crannies (especially if it's been used previously). Also, when applied correctly, Cerakote should create a very thin layer. I could be wrong, but from the looks of the pics, that may not have been the case here, and it may have been applied too thick (or simply not consistent/uniform).
Lastly, anyone who is experienced in coating AR lowers would have known to check/clear all of the assembly holes for the proper tolerances. The easiest way to do this IMO is with specific-size drill bits, carefully by hand. YMMV...
How scuffed?
Generally, just enough to break the glaze. Just enough to make the finish look dull. Then, you'll need to wash & rinse everything.
But in the future let me suggest that you skip past the Cerakote, Duracoat and Alumahyde and head straight for Krylon, Rustoleum and Aervoe and rattle can it yourself. No need to scuff anything for a rattle can job, just scrub everything down with a mild solution of dish soap. Make sure the water you wash and rinse with is as hot as you can stand it.
Do factory cerakoted rifles get anodized before cerakote?
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