View Full Version : BLACKHAWK! No-Latch Charging Handle.
During a recent visit to Fleet Farm, I came across a Blackhawk charging handle. It looked kind of interesting, and was $19.99 so I decided to pick it up. After messing around with it for a bit last night, I decided I really kind of liked it. It's 7075 aluminum, made in the USA, ambidextrous, and uses a leaf spring that's built into the handle, so it's little different than your traditional charging handle. It's bit bulky, but not obnoxiously so.
I used to use a lot of Blackhawk products in the early 2000's and during the beginning of the Iraq war, and usually had good luck with them, but then I started to notice that they were having products made outside of the USA. The quality really suffered, and that was it for me.
Does anyone else have any experience with these? Good or bad? I'm wondering how it'll hold up over the long run.
Eurodriver
10-31-17, 10:41
Why would you buy something that makes you question how it will hold up in the long run?
Why would you buy something that makes you question how it will hold up in the long run?
Well, b/c it was $20 and I bought it on a whim. If you've never done that before, good on you. I guess you're a better man than I. I'm more or less wondering what other folks luck has been with it. I figured what the hell, I'll give it a try. If it holds up, then I have a good charging handle for $20. If not, then I guess I'm out $20. It'll be tough, but I feel like I can probaboy live with it.
dlraymond30
10-31-17, 12:20
i also looked at this CH to see how well it might hold up... i really like how large it is. im a left handed shooter so i always use ambi CHs... lemme know what you learn.
i also looked at this CH to see how well it might hold up... i really like how large it is. im a left handed shooter so i always use ambi CHs... lemme know what you learn.
Will do. I just got a Colt Trooper that I'm going to throw this in. I'll be going to the range this weekend, so I'll report back after.
Mr. Goodtimes
10-31-17, 12:56
I’d like to see what the average gun owners bank account looks like. No wonder so many gun people I know are poverty stricken. They’re like fat kids in a candy shop. “Yea I don’t really need this and it doesn’t even seem that great but it’s only $20 so I’ll buy it.”
Guys it’s $20. You probably spend that on coffee or beer a week. At the end of the week you’ll just have pissed your money away.
At least the OP will have something to sell on the EE if he doesn’t like it.
RVTMaverick
10-31-17, 13:37
I’d like to see what the average gun owners bank account looks like. No wonder so many gun people I know are poverty stricken. They’re like fat kids in a candy shop. “Yea I don’t really need this and it doesn’t even seem that great but it’s only $20 so I’ll buy it.”
HEY Watch IT! :nono: I'm a reflection of that description...:p
Guys it’s $20. You probably spend that on coffee or beer a week.
Not a chance, it is way more than that for me.
I’d like to see what the average gun owners bank account looks like. No wonder so many gun people I know are poverty stricken. They’re like fat kids in a candy shop. “Yea I don’t really need this and it doesn’t even seem that great but it’s only $20 so I’ll buy it.”
You know, I never thought asking about a charging handle I picked up could lead to folks making such a mountain out of a mole hill. It's a $20 charging handle, not some huge, life altering purchase. Like I said before, if you've never bought anything on a whim, then I guess you're just a better man than me. Also, can you point out to me where I said I'm not going to use it? I will be using it, and if it turns out that I don't like it , I can sell it or maybe...here's a crazy idea, use this cool thing we have here called the equipment exchange. Relax.
Holy ****, are we really discussing the financial ramifications of a 20 dollar gun part? And making assumptions on the guys finances who for all we know is a millionaire?
The dude bought a part for an AR15 and was asking if any members had experience with it and stated he would give a report on it.
Last time I checked the whole point of a forum dedicated to the AR15 weapons family was to discuss things like *gasp* parts for that weapon.
RobertTheTexan
10-31-17, 16:21
During a recent visit to Fleet Farm, I came across a Blackhawk charging handle. It looked kind of interesting, and was $19.99 so I decided to pick it up. After messing around with it for a bit last night, I decided I really kind of liked it. It's 7075 aluminum, made in the USA, ambidextrous, and uses a leaf spring that's built into the handle, so it's little different than your traditional charging handle. It's bit bulky, but not obnoxiously so.
I used to use a lot of Blackhawk products in the early 2000's and during the beginning of the Iraq war, and usually had good luck with them, but then I started to notice that they were having products made outside of the USA. The quality really suffered, and that was it for me.
Does anyone else have any experience with these? Good or bad? I'm wondering how it'll hold up over the long run.
I'm not too keen on the latchless CH's. Mega Arms makes one. I believe there has been some reports of that CH wearing down that little notch that the latch hooks into. Traditional CH's both mil spec and after market that use latches, raise the latch hook so it clears that little notch-out. The "latchless" ones, at least like the Mega Arms just slides off of it. I can see how over time that will wear down one of two things. Either the CH or the notch in the AR. What I read was that the notch-out in the upper receiver was being worn.
Might be something. Might be nothing, but at minimum I'd at least see how it's affecting If you have a painted or cerakoted AR that you could see if there is a potential problem maybe.
It seems to be similar to the new Raptor, with the poly T-handle molded into 7075 grade aluminum shaft. It's a nice looking CH though.
Holy ****, are we really discussing the financial ramifications of a 20 dollar gun part? And making assumptions on the guys finances who for all we know is a millionaire?
The dude bought a part for an AR15 and was asking if any members had experience with it and stated he would give a report on it.
Last time I checked the whole point of a forum dedicated to the AR15 weapons family was to discuss things like *gasp* parts for that weapon.
A voice of reason.Thank you. I'm definitely no millionaire, but this $20 purchase isn't going to leave me kicking a can on my way to my cardboard box.
We thought about a latchless design years ago but never did anything with it, mostly because we couldn't solve the problem Robert mentioned, that of wearing the cutout on the upper both ways. On a conventional charging handle, if one simply pushes the CH forward, the rearward facing cutout where the CH's "hook" engages incurs some wear, but not when the CH is pulled back, as the hook must clear the cutout before rearward movement can commence.
Over time, anodizing will wear, then it's to bare metal. I imagine it would be 10s of thousands of cycles before the CH would reciprocate some distance with the BCG after a round is fired. Still, I think a latchless design solves a problem nobody had (having a latch on either or both sides of the CH isn't a problem), so then it's just another means to the same end as conventional CHs with moving latches, except it creates a host of unintended consequences in the process.
I'm a huge proponent for ambidextrous controls, many of our products are either straight ambi controls, or designed to work with them better than factory equivalent. We even carry Mega's Slidelock, but will not restock when they run out.
Re: larger latches, I don't think of anything oversized as a feature. I like Geissele's Airborne CH better than the Super CH for their smaller latches. As a company, we're in the direction of smarter, not bigger. Bigger sometimes is just bigger, not better.
We thought about a latchless design years ago but never did anything with it, mostly because we couldn't solve the problem Robert mentioned, that of wearing the cutout on the upper both ways. On a conventional charging handle, if one simply pushes the CH forward, the rearward facing cutout where the CH's "hook" engages incurs some wear, but not when the CH is pulled back, as the hook must clear the cutout before rearward movement can commence.
Over time, anodizing will wear, then it's to bare metal. I imagine it would be 10s of thousands of cycles before the CH would reciprocate some distance with the BCG after a round is fired. Still, I think a latchless design solves a problem nobody had (having a latch on either or both sides of the CH isn't a problem), so then it's just another means to the same end as conventional CHs with moving latches, except it creates a host of unintended consequences in the process.
I'm a huge proponent for ambidextrous controls, many of our products are either straight ambi controls, or designed to work with them better than factory equivalent. We even carry Mega's Slidelock, but will not restock when they run out.
Re: larger latches, I don't think of anything oversized as a feature. I like Geissele's Airborne CH better than the Super CH for their smaller latches. As a company, we're in the direction of smarter, not bigger. Bigger sometimes is just bigger, not better.
I had wondered about the anodizing wearing. Thank you for the input. This was more of the kind of information I was looking for. Not being scolded for being a fat kid that likes candy, or whatever the hell that was about.
I have used similar type latches from multiple companies, and have not found any of them which I could recommend to squad members, friends, or family.
I have zero desire to run around bashing or badmouthing the products of companies, so I will leave it at that.
RobertTheTexan
10-31-17, 18:36
I had wondered about the anodizing wearing. Thank you for the input. This was more of the kind of information I was looking for. Not being scolded for being a fat kid that likes candy, or whatever the hell that was about.
Not everyone was busting your chops.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not everyone was busting your chops.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep, and I appreciate your straight answer to the original question. Thank.you.
I've bought enough parts I thought I'd use to fill couple of boxes. I recently started selling some of the gear I've had but not used in a long time. Gone are two Surefire M900s, a TA01NSN and a TA31DOC, there are other misc. parts I'll probably just give away. Also returned all four of my EOTechs for refund. I found a first gen LAW folding stock mechanism in the drawer, I didn't care for it when I got it in 2013 or 2014, and I recently found I still have no use for it lol.
It's fun to experiment with different parts on firearms, it's not easy to tell how well it'd work for you until you have had hands on time with it. What works well for others may not for you, and the reverse is also true.
My 2004 era LMT MRP setup has been the test bed for all new gear that I either buy from other companies or design myself, so it's often found fitted with shiny in the white prototypes. What works for me stays on it, what doesn't goes away. It's not much to look at, but it has everything I've found to suit me.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2408_zpsljq3cm6p.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2408_zpsljq3cm6p.jpg.html)
Don't worry about the good natured ribbing folks gave you. Soon you'll be among us that think "why did he buy something, then ask for advice/feedback" as it happens often enough :D
titsonritz
11-01-17, 13:48
I have zero desire to run around bashing or badmouthing the products of companies, so I will leave it at that.
I, on the other hand, shall take the "lower road" and say I hope it is better than most the crap they usually put out, but I kinda doubt it.
I, on the other hand, shall take the "lower road" and say I hope it is better than most the crap they usually put out, but I kinda doubt it.
Yeah, Blackhawk did go down the s***er...or maybe they were always there. I could be wrong, but I do feel like there was a time when they made some decent quality stuff. The Blackhawk stuff I used around 15 years ago seemed to serve me well anyway. I've noticed a few items recently, like this charging handle, that are being made in the US. It appears to be made with quality components. I'm not sure about much else, and I won't be holding my breath, but hopefully Blackhawk is trying to get on the right track. Time will tell.
bamashooter
11-02-17, 07:21
Guys it’s $20. You probably spend that on coffee or beer a week. At the end of the week you’ll just have pissed your money away.
At least the OP will have something to sell on the EE if he doesn’t like it.
Literally!. Now that's just too funny.
To the OP. Very doubtful I'll change from the original however I like your curiosity and hope it works well for you. I have tons of items I have purchased over the years from my "Wonder if this is worth a crap; I'll take two please" mentality. Look forward to your findings.
God bless Texas! It took a Texan to get this topic back on point ... as for a while there, there was so much ‘noise’ in the messages that I thought I was reading posts on TOS!
Let’s try to keep a HIGH ratio of ‘signal vs noise’, in our post content here folks!
Rayrevolver
11-02-17, 07:43
In the vain of new charging handles, I just saw this on SI. The latch is actually hidden and uses that slot for initial CH installation... know what I mean?
Initially I thought the tabs opened and closed the internal latches, but that does not seem to be the case. The other wacky thing it says not for suppressed uppers or SBRs.
https://www.strikeindustries.com/shop/strike-latchless-charging-handle.html
Anywho, I am happy with my BCM CHs with the RTV silicon mod.
SI has been on my sh*t list for copying my pivot pin design and calling it their own back in 2013 or 2014. I think of them as a "derivative" company, that makes slight different versions of successful products designed by others. Even the S in their SI logo bears a striking resemblance to the stylized S in Schultstaffel's runes. SI's CH looks a lot like Mega's Slidelock.
I believe non-moving latch charging handles are doomed unless they can eliminate the upper receiver CH notch wear, and can be made to be as reliable as CHs with conventional pivoting/locking latches, these two are interrelated, no matter who makes it, and certainly no matter how it's dolled up with different colors.
titsonritz
11-02-17, 10:21
The other wacky thing it says not for suppressed uppers or SBRs.
There's a clue in there somewhere.
So they admit there's an issue but didn't spell it out. It's not comparable to a conventional CH with spring loaded latches that positively engages the cutout/notch on the receiver, which won't be overcome by the back pressure exerted on the CH when a suppressor is present.
With a ball bearing acting as a detent, it's but a matter of how much force is required to overcome the resistance and get it moving.
I found a first gen LAW folding stock mechanism in the drawer, I didn't care for it when I got it in 2013 or 2014, and I recently found I still have no use for it lol.
I get the whole different strokes for different folks thing, I bought one a couple years ago, I like it. What would be the difference between first gen and that one? If nothing big, will you be putting that one on the EE? If you do, would you be willing to throw in another bandana?
Thanks.
So they admit there's an issue but didn't spell it out. It's not comparable to a conventional CH with spring loaded latches that positively engages the cutout/notch on the receiver, which won't be overcome by the back pressure exerted on the CH when a suppressor is present.
With a ball bearing acting as a detent, it's but a matter of how much force is required to overcome the resistance and get it moving.
What is the benefit of a "latchless" CH? I have been using the standard GI CH for years, including heavy training when I was on the job, and have never had any kind of failure.
I lost interest in folding stocks at the expense of added length of pull and normal take down procedures being changed, so I haven't kept up with their changes throughout the different generations. If you want it, sure I'll throw in a soon to be out of production FCD bandana :D
I get the whole different strokes for different folks thing, I bought one a couple years ago, I like it. What would be the difference between first gen and that one? If nothing big, will you be putting that one on the EE? If you do, would you be willing to throw in another bandana?
Thanks.
A latchless CH may have fewer parts, it's another way to achieve ambidextrous function on an AR charging handle, but in omitting the pivoting latch, it created its own problems.
I don't care about the wear on my upper, unless it's a monolithic upper like the LMT MRP that would be quite expensive to replace (which is what I use), but that it would fly back with the BCG at some point is a drawback a conventional CH with spring loaded latch doesn't have. For a dedicated .22 or .22 conversion this might be fine on a long term basis.
What is the benefit of a "latchless" CH? I have been using the standard GI CH for years, including heavy training when I was on the job, and have never had any kind of failure.
I lost interest in folding stocks at the expense of added length of pull and normal take down procedures being changed, so I haven't kept up with their changes throughout the different generations. If you want it, sure I'll throw in a soon to be out of production FCD bandana :D
I have a pretty long wingspan so the increased LP isn't a deal breaker for me. I like the one I have on my SBR and would like to use on on another pistol while I wait for a stamp. PM inbound.
RobertTheTexan
11-03-17, 10:35
I lost interest in folding stocks at the expense of added length of pull and normal take down procedures being changed, so I haven't kept up with their changes throughout the different generations. If you want it, sure I'll throw in a soon to be out of production FCD bandana :D
Bandanas?!? BANDANAS!?! What bandanas?? I haven’t seen no bandanas!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Half of our swag isn't for sale, but given to repeat customers and friends, are you sure we didn't send you one? :sarcastic:
Lest the mods come in and straighten us out, back on topic....
I've used ambi charging handles for a long time, still have an AXTS Raptor prototype that's still going strong. My favorite is now the Geissele Airborne CH. I like the Super Charging Handle, but like the smaller latches of the Airborne. Geissele is the only one outside of our company that actually goes the opposite direction, and makes things smaller and slicker, not bigger. The Raptor has a larger right side latch, ostensibly to avoid the fingers crossing path with the forward assist, but I haven't found a larger latch there to be useful, a rimless forward assist is still the way to go.
Geissele ACH + FCD LDFA is money.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Geissele ACH + FCD LDFA is money.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm currently working on a build. I may have to give it a try. Looks nice, and I've only heard good things about it. I should probably pick up another one of their triggers why I'm at it. Excellent stuff.
Geissele & whoever made the short lived Ambi charging handle called the "Freedom Bone" are what I have now. I grabbed two of the FB's and one Geissele for $50.00 each and really like them all. I'll be getting a Geissele AB CH soon enough and some other needless stuff just because I can for the most part.
Didn't AXTS make the Freedom Bone? Yep it did, it had a series of holes at the end, I don't believe they do anything to mitigate gas blow back.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.