View Full Version : TTAG Drop-in Trigger Comparison
So I stumbled about the internet and came across this article on Truth About Guns comparing drop-in AR triggers. I was surprised by some of his conclusions, namely his comparison between any drop-in trigger and a Geissele SD-3G. Are Geissele triggers still the best and if so, why?*
*I own three Geisseles and have always been a fan.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-drop-in-trigger-roundup/
dlraymond30
10-31-17, 12:22
i saw this when it came out. its also on youtube. i prefer the LMT and Timney to the Geissele myself. Hell with the rock river 2 stage and some good JP springs it feels just as good if not better than the overpriced G stamp.
i saw this when it came out. its also on youtube. i prefer the LMT and Timney to the Geissele myself. Hell with the rock river 2 stage and some good JP springs it feels just as good if not better than the overpriced G stamp.
When you get some real shooting experience under your belt with that RR trigger, you'll start to realize G triggers aren't over-priced
BrigandTwoFour
10-31-17, 15:36
i saw this when it came out. its also on youtube. i prefer the LMT and Timney to the Geissele myself. Hell with the rock river 2 stage and some good JP springs it feels just as good if not better than the overpriced G stamp.
Yeah...you must be new around here.....
How many Geissele's fail compared to RR 2-stage triggers? I am willing to bet that the results make you look pretty foolish.
i saw this when it came out. its also on youtube. i prefer the LMT and Timney to the Geissele myself. Hell with the rock river 2 stage and some good JP springs it feels just as good if not better than the overpriced G stamp.
Take into consideration how finely tuned those drop-ins are, and what is your intended purpose. If you are looking for the cleanest, lightest pull on the market, then no. However, he didn't test a well broken in NM model, which would be a better comparison IMO. He did say that the 3G is a great trigger, but in comparison, it was rather rough and creepy. Pretty funny if you've ever tried one, but I trust the data provided.
Honestly, I read this article back when it came out and I never once considered any of these triggers for hard use. I thought the trigger scan data was very interesting, and I enjoyed seeing the results and the graphs. In the end, those drop-in triggers just don't appeal to me.
So I stumbled about the internet and came across this article on Truth About Guns comparing drop-in AR triggers. I was surprised by some of his conclusions, namely his comparison between any drop-in trigger and a Geissele SD-3G. Are Geissele triggers still the best and if so, why?*
*I own three Geisseles and have always been a fan.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-drop-in-trigger-roundup/
I have a Geissele SD-C flat and prefer my RRA 2 stage. Granted these are designed for slightly different roles but I expected the G unit to feel better and the first stage to not be sooooooo looooong.
Short take up.
Low pull weight.
Safe for more dynamic use than bench shooting.
Pick two.
Oh, and most people need trigger time, not a $300 trigger to shoot better.
So essentially Geissele is the sweet spot for performance, durability, and reliability?
bamashooter
11-02-17, 15:56
So essentially Geissele is the sweet spot for performance, durability, and reliability?
Not necessarily. There are others which meet or exceed your criteria. Some have been included in this thread.
So essentially Geissele is the sweet spot for performance, durability, and reliability?
The two stage G triggers, yes. It keeps the long take up of the standard AR semi-auto trigger for safety but instead of having the long creep of the standard trigger, it uses all but the last bit of sear travel for the first stage of a tow stage trigger. Just before the sear break, spring rate is increased to keep the pull from being too light.
The SSA has a heavier break that isn't quite as crisp as the SSA-E, but it still has an excellent trigger pull. I have both the SSA and the SSA-E. The SSA is a versatile trigger, suitable for both close in fast work and deliberate precision shooting. The SSA-E is a more specialized trigger and is best when used for taking deliberate shots.
BufordTJustice
11-05-17, 12:04
So essentially Geissele is the sweet spot for performance, durability, and reliability?
Yes.
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My favorite trigger for toys used to be the SD-3G but I recently picked up a KE Arms SLT-1 and like it better. With a coupon code I paid $168 shipped including an ambi safety, significantly less than the Geissele.
Geissele (and other conventional, non drop-in) triggers have to be safe with pin spacing at the extreme ends of milspec tolerance. That means that there's a little more sear engagement, and therefore a little more pull. In comparison, a drop-in manufacturer can run a tighter tolerance on hole spacing, as they control tolerance. This lets them have shorter pulls.
kantstudien
11-06-17, 13:56
Rock River is a damn joke
tigershilone
11-06-17, 13:58
I've said this before, bears repeating. Just wait till you get a popped primer stuck in one of those sealed drop-in trigger units, then come back and tell how great it is to have a locked up firearm.
I've said this before, bears repeating. Just wait till you get a popped primer stuck in one of those sealed drop-in trigger units, then come back and tell how great it is to have a locked up firearm.The KE Arms SLT-1 is a significantly different design than a typical trigger. For example, it doesn't have a conventional disconnector.
As far as I've seen, basically all AR triggers are minor variations on the same basic geometry. This isn't.
http://www.kearms.com/resize/Shared/Images/Product/SLT-1-Sear-Link-Technology-Trigger/ps_IMG_2047.jpg?bw=700&bh=600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjkSqvRcjlk
Not sponsored by them or anything, just a happy customer.
My favorite trigger for toys used to be the SD-3G but I recently picked up a KE Arms SLT-1 and like it better. With a coupon code I paid $168 shipped including an ambi safety, significantly less than the Geissele.
Geissele (and other conventional, non drop-in) triggers have to be safe with pin spacing at the extreme ends of milspec tolerance. That means that there's a little more sear engagement, and therefore a little more pull. In comparison, a drop-in manufacturer can run a tighter tolerance on hole spacing, as they control tolerance. This lets them have shorter pulls.
The long sear engagement of the G trigger has nothing to with pin spacing. It's to prevent the rifle from firing if it's dropped or subjected to rough handling. That's the reason the standard AR trigger has a long sear engagement.
My favorite trigger for toys used to be the SD-3G but I recently picked up a KE Arms SLT-1 and like it better. With a coupon code I paid $168 shipped including an ambi safety, significantly less than the Geissele.
Geissele (and other conventional, non drop-in) triggers have to be safe with pin spacing at the extreme ends of milspec tolerance. That means that there's a little more sear engagement, and therefore a little more pull. In comparison, a drop-in manufacturer can run a tighter tolerance on hole spacing, as they control tolerance. This lets them have shorter pulls.
The long sear engagement of the G trigger has nothing to with pin spacing. It's to prevent the rifle from firing if it's dropped or subjected to rough handling. That's the reason the standard AR trigger has a long sear engagement.
I've said this before, bears repeating. Just wait till you get a popped primer stuck in one of those sealed drop-in trigger units, then come back and tell how great it is to have a locked up firearm.
I've had popped primers tie up GI and G triggers, both required taking out the entire FCG to clear it out.
... required taking out the entire FCG to clear it out.
Exactly. You can separate the trigger from the hammer and there is no place you can't clean out.
How do you separate the trigger and hammer in a drop in?
tigershilone
11-07-17, 17:29
I've had popped primers tie up GI and G triggers, both required taking out the entire FCG to clear it out.
I should clarify, primer wound up in the sealed trigger unit itself, my buddy wound up scrapping that trigger as he couldn't get it apart or get the primer out. At least with non-sealed unit you can dis-assemble parts till you get to the problem and correct it. I'll try to look him up and see what brand it was, It was about 10-11 years ago and all i remember it was red aluminum sides and a pretty light trigger of about a pound of pull. And he was pissed for weeks over it as it was pretty pricey at the time.
EDIT ADD: I just remembered why he was so mad, he couldn't get the sealed unit out without cutting something as it was locking up on the safety selector (couldn't move off fire, couldn't get safety out) and it wouldn't slide past it IIRC. We fought with if for about an hour at the range trying to get it out before we gave up and he worked on it at home.
I should clarify, primer wound up in the sealed trigger unit itself, my buddy wound up scrapping that trigger as he couldn't get it apart or get the primer out. At least with non-sealed unit you can dis-assemble parts till you get to the problem and correct it. I'll try to look him up and see what brand it was, It was about 10-11 years ago and all i remember it was red aluminum sides and a pretty light trigger of about a pound of pull. And he was pissed for weeks over it as it was pretty pricey at the time.
Copy.
Just dropped the G 3 gun trigger in my carbine. It's amazing for the speed I like to shoot at and I don't forsee any issues using a scope with it if i decide to hunt with it.
Does anyone offer as many different trigger types for different applications as Geissele? Because they have about 15 different triggers for the AR-15 alone. Did they try them all? I have four if you count the SSF for the M16 and they're all different.
TTAG only tried the S3G for comparison. The focus of the article was on drop-in FCGs only.
TTAG only tried the S3G for comparison. The focus of the article was on drop-in FCGs only.
The S3G isn't an all in one fcg like the CMC, Timney, etc. It's a separate hammer, sear, disconnector and springs. If the S3G is a "drop-in", then the other 14 variants they offer are as well.
You are correct. The author/tester, for shits and giggles, threw a S3G into the mix to give the reader a comparison on how light and clean the drop-in trigger groups were to a trigger he considered to be excellent. I had commented earlier that I had thought a Hi-Speed NM would have been a better comparison but, you are right, none of the G line are self-contained drop-in FCGs. Just to be clear, I never implied they were.
The S3G isn't an all in one fcg like the CMC, Timney, etc. It's a separate hammer, sear, disconnector and springs. If the S3G is a "drop-in", then the other 14 variants they offer are as well.
BufordTJustice
11-11-17, 08:47
You are correct. The author/tester, for shits and giggles, threw a S3G into the mix to give the reader a comparison on how light and clean the drop-in trigger groups were to a trigger he considered to be excellent. I had commented earlier that I had thought a Hi-Speed NM would have been a better comparison but, you are right, none of the G line are self-contained drop-in FCGs. Just to be clear, I never implied they were.
Correct.
And, further, Geissele trigger performance is directly dependent upon the proper spec of a given lowers pin holes; both the bore diameter, symmetry of the bores, and parallelism of the bores. A drop in trigger will be far more tolerant of a cheaply made lower.
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Rayrevolver
11-14-17, 11:27
Primary Arms has the Rise for $79.99 right meow.
EDIT:
Since this is the technical forum, I can add some thoughts on the Rise 140.
I too read that article a while back but had no reason to buy a cassette style trigger. When I decided to build a PCC AR and started reading about stress on the FCG, I went back to that article to see what was what.
First off, if money was no issue I would have really wanted to try a Wilson TTU. That said, for a gaming PCC, the Rise 140 Black Cloud or whatever its called seemed to fit the bill, especially on sale. Note that it has set screws but I purchased KNS pins.
Like the graph shows it seems to have no creep/pre-travel and hardly any over travel. You just apply pressure and bang. I presume its a good single stage trigger but I really have nothing to compare it to. That said, I still prefer the G SD-C. After the light first stage, the break on the SD-C is still really nice even though there is more movement overall. And I do like the take up of the first stage.
i saw this when it came out. its also on youtube. i prefer the LMT and Timney to the Geissele myself. Hell with the rock river 2 stage and some good JP springs it feels just as good if not better than the overpriced G stamp.
LOL @ Rock River Arms trigger better than Geissele.
That's quite an uninformed statement IMO.
Just curious, how much actual experience do you have behind a Geissele trigger?
Which Geissele trigger did you have in your rifle that you didn't like?
What didn't you like about that specific trigger?
That statement sounds exactly like the type of nonsense heard at some gun shops. The RRA cheap trigger is 'as good as' the higher priced, higher quality, tighter tolerance, better QC of the Geissele Trigger. Many shops make the same claims about the bottom tier AR's they sell in their store, just to move them, same goes for lower quality triggers offered.
There's no way I would go with RRA over anything offered from Geissele, ever. Geissele triggers are proven reliable, worth every penny they cost, and they are light years above and beyond RRA.
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