View Full Version : Larry Vickers and the Centurion Arms SPR
Larry asked me to start this thread and post his opinion of the Centurion Arms SPR that was provided to him by Monte LeClair.
I took some photos of this particular rifle at the 11-13 July 08 3 Day Advanced Pistol/Carbine class that Larry taught in South Hill Virginia.
Gents
I am proud to announce my buddy Monte LeClair of Centurion Arms is ready to accept orders for SPR (special purpose rifle and/or receiver) uppers - attached to this post are pics of the SPR that Monte sent me for T&E and that I had at a recent South Hill, VA class.
The reason you should buy your SPR from Monte over anyone else are;
1) He is active duty Spec Ops who has used the SPR overseas in theatre
2) He has sourced all the parts and builds an exact MILSPEC replica to the issued SPR - unlike most others offering them
3) He has detailed knowledge of how it is employed and how it is built so he can help a customer get the most out of his SPR
4) He is a very knowledgable gun guy, one of the very best on active duty today, and this knowledge and expertise goes into his builds
This the same situation as when I was building custom 1911's while on active duty and using a 1911 myself - that invaluable experience went into each gun making them very unique. And as a final endorsement of Mony's work I have one of his SPR uppers myself for my collection and training use.
Last but not least Monty also offers uppers that are built on what he considers to be the best available components based on his personal experience.
If you are interested do not wait - contact him at www.centurionarms.com and get on the list - remember he is active duty and he does this as a hobby so he will get a sizable backlog fast.
Regards
LAV
I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000556B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000557B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000558B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000560B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000561B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000562B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000563B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000565B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000566B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000567B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000568B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000569B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000572B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000573B.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Vickers%20Advanced%20Carbine%20and%20Pistol%2011-13%20July%2008/Centurion%20Arms%20SPR/P1000574.jpg
just curious if the builder sees the ARMS mounts as GTG as there had been so much talk on TOS that there were now some much better options that were more durable (i.e. Larue).
just curious if the builder sees the ARMS mounts as GTG as there had been so much talk on TOS that there were now some much better options that were more durable (i.e. Larue).
I'm not a fan of the ARMS rings though I did not have a problem with mine but I never used the "QD" capacity I really see no need on a rifle like this except if the scope fails and need to get to your BUIS. The latest rifles actually do not have QD rings they use standard night force scope rings.
Monty will build any set up you want to use, besides, you would most likely buy just the upper assembly, the optic is usually buyer's option.
I assumed as much, like I said just curious about the opinion on the ARMS QD rings because I have a set that have been sitting in the safe for well over a year
I'm not a fan of the ARMS rings though I did not have a problem with mine but I never used the "QD" capacity I really see no need on a rifle like this except if the scope fails and need to get to your BUIS. The latest rifles actually do not have QD rings they use standard night force scope rings.
Good point...and regarding the use of standard rings, this is the fist I heard that...interesting.
Larry Vickers
10-11-08, 17:26
Thanx Tim for posting this for me - next let me add a couple thoughts to this discussion;
Everyone please understand that the Mk12 SPR as we know it today was originally designed years ago and by current standards some of the components and modfications are not state of the art - such as the set screw gas block. Manty is truly an SME on the SPR and knows the gun inside and out - he can build you a completely authentic as issued SPR or one that features upgrades in build specs as well as parts used - for my collection I wanted one that was to MILSPEC and that is what I got.
In addition Monty has sourced parts that are extremely difficult to get in order to build an exact replica - the barrel for instance is only available to Crane and to Monty ; you can get a barrel that looks the same in contour but to get the exact same barrel as the Mk12 has you have to get it from Monty - that is one of the reasons why it took him so long to come to market with this - he wanted to make sure he had his parts sourced out completely
The Mk12 SPR is an historically significant rifle as it is the FIRST custom built AR style weapon that is issued to the US Military - and specifically SOCOM (the US Army's DMR would be the other ). That reason alone makes it worth having but getting one from an end user that has used SPR's in the field is icing on the cake.
Hope this helps - I will say it again ; if you want one don't wait as the list will not get shorter
be safe
LAV
Voodoochild
10-13-08, 08:08
Well I guess I have found my Christmas present to myself.
I would love to see what he would use if you spec'd a version using parts available today with the same end goals.
That being said, an all original gun is really, really cool too!
Spooky
the barrel for instance is only available to Crane and to Monty ; you can get a barrel that looks the same in contour but to get the exact same barrel as the Mk12 has you have to get it from Monty
Would this be the CLE SPR barrel by frank white?
Would this be the CLE SPR barrel by frank white?
NO. This is a Douglas barrel by someone who doesn't wish to be named as the MK12 barrel "guy." I don't think it is a huge secret but he just doesn't want the "notoriety" and offers it only to ONE SOF member outside of the Crane Supply.
SinnFéinM1911
10-15-08, 12:01
Who do I have to know to get one of these?
:D
CarlosDJackal
10-15-08, 22:54
Verrrry interesting!! Anyone know what the cost of an upper would be? Or did I miss this piece of information in the thread? :D
There is a link in the original post to the website with prices.
The gas block pinning is an option but since the military rifles are not pinnned it is not standard. This is offered at no extra charge.
The gas block will be pinned with a spring pin since this is good enough for the HK416 it is plenty good for a DI gun.
Voodoochild
10-16-08, 21:44
Do you recommend pinning the Gas Block?
just curious if the builder sees the ARMS mounts as GTG as there had been so much talk on TOS that there were now some much better options that were more durable (i.e. Larue).
FWIW my unit deployed with the Larue SPR mounts on our issued MK12's last go around, as well as a lot of other Larue products provided to us by one of the industries biggest Patriots- Mr. Mark Larue himself.
Do you recommend pinning the Gas Block?
For any serious use ABSOLUTELY
Voodoochild
10-19-08, 22:20
Thanks Monty for the reply regarding the gas block. I sent you an email a few days ago about purchasing one of the uppers. I know you are a busy man with work and your business so get back to me when you can. And thanks for offering us something special.
Please put me on the list for an upper... :cool:
B
SwatDawg15
10-30-08, 07:02
Thats freakin awsome... Congrats
Am also interested in the RRA lower, info?
Larry asked me to start this thread and post his opinion of the Centurion Arms SPR that was provided to him by Monte LeClair.
I took some photos of this particular rifle at the 11-13 July 08 3 Day Advanced Pistol/Carbine class that Larry taught in South Hill Virginia.
I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.
Voodoochild
11-08-08, 01:14
Lee you suck man..I cant wait to get mine...Then all I need is an OPS 12th model to go with it.
Medicine Calf
11-09-08, 12:35
Beautiful setup.
Does anyone know the difference with the 'Nav Spec' Nightforce and the regular model? Are these available with the inscription from Monty? Thanks, Wally
Wally,
I'm sorry no a NAVSPEC scope is not offered to the public it is only available to the military and on a rare occasion Night Force has let one or two go to Team members. The one in the pic is my personal scope and is not for sale.
The NAVSPEC marked scope go through 8-10 hours of additional testing. Each scope is tested to the spec in the contract. So if it dictates the scope will be water proof for 2 hours at 66ft the each NAVSPEC marked scope will be submersed to 66FT for 2 full hours ect.
Thanks
Monty
whaledriver
11-11-08, 21:40
Who makes the upper receiver for this? Very nice by the way.
spamsammich
11-12-08, 01:53
Who makes the upper receiver for this? Very nice by the way.
Grinch does. Not sure how you missed that.
AwaySooner
11-12-08, 03:11
Looks like Asolo. I know a lot of SF guys love them.
What kind of shoes are you wearing in that pic?
They are Merrell"s. I think they were called Sawtooths. I wore a pair a couple of years ago.
They are Merrell"s. I think they were called Sawtooths. I wore a pair a couple of years ago.
Merrell's they are. Standard issue in '05...
NinjaMedic
11-13-08, 00:21
Monty, how long are we looking at for you to fill orders for these uppers? Just curious as I am sure demand is fairly high right now.
Does anyone know which trigger these use? KAC Two-Stage? Thanks, Wally
I really need to get a SPR or Recce build going, I may be runnin' outta time!
whaledriver
11-13-08, 19:52
Grinch does. Not sure how you missed that.
Actually asking about the upper receiver itself, not the complete upper. I figured that one out on my own.
Forgive me for asking, as I know it will not be spec, but can this upper be had with a URX rail?
For whatever reason, I have a hardon for the URX.
They are Merrell"s. I think they were called Sawtooths. I wore a pair a couple of years ago.
You are correct. I believe they discontinued them- mine are still cherry. The soles have no flex. Sorry to clog up the thread.
I just had Monty pin a Badger Mk12 Gas Block on my barrel. Great guy to deal with.
You wont be disappointed.
Al U. 5811
11-18-08, 23:14
OT but,
Check www.shoebuy.com
They have the Sawtooth's for $89.95. That's where I got mine over 2 years ago, still going strong.
decodeddiesel
11-19-08, 16:37
Such a sweet upper...but I guess I prefer the Mk. 12 MOD 0 to the KAC'd out one. I love that rifle!
NinjaMedic
01-09-09, 01:55
SMGLee, or any of the other proud owners of these uppers, can someone throw up a picture of one of these fine uppers on a lower dressed with a sopmod collapsible stock?
How do I get in line to order one of these uppers?
Voodoochild
01-14-09, 02:51
SMGLee, or any of the other proud owners of these uppers, can someone throw up a picture of one of these fine uppers on a lower dressed with a sopmod collapsible stock?
Man a day late and a dollar short. I have the exact setup you are looking for but I am back in Afghanistan. Let me hit up my friend and have him take some pics and I will get them posted up. Dane you need to email Monty and have him put you on the list. He is a good dude and will square you away.
ETA: That upper is a sweet piece of weaponry and is a ****ing laser.
spamsammich
01-14-09, 03:14
How do I get in line to order one of these uppers?
The very first post has a quote from LAV that tells you how to contact the manufacturer of this upper.
Voodoochild
01-14-09, 03:22
SMGLee, or any of the other proud owners of these uppers, can someone throw up a picture of one of these fine uppers on a lower dressed with a sopmod collapsible stock?
Forgive me for asking, as I know it will not be spec, but can this upper be had with a URX rail?
For whatever reason, I have a hardon for the URX.
Hootie contact Monty and tell him what you want and I am sure he will be more than willing to accommodate you.
Thank you guys for the response. I have been unable to reach him by email I just thought there was another way, I guess I need more patients
Voodoochild
01-14-09, 08:25
Thank you guys for the response. I have been unable to reach him by email I just thought there was another way, I guess I need more patients
He is in the Military and does this as a second job so patience is a virtue.
ETA: Not the best pic but Monty's upper is between the Tan AR and the Bolt action.
Dane,
I'm sorry for the delay I have been out of phone and internet access for a few days due to my other job I'm getting to my E-mails tonight. I have responded to your PM.
Thanks
Monty
Monty,
I'm going to need to contact you soon. I will need to add one of these to my referance DM rifles.
Can you install a URX? I have a rifle length URX on the shelf that I was thinking hard about using as part of an SPR build...
Thanks for posting this Templar, and Mr. Vickers. This is exactly what I've been looking for, and the timing is very good, and I'm in the process of submitting my order with Monty. I also recently put in my order for my Ops 12th model so, hopefully I'll have some rifle pics for this thread, and maybe in 4 months (if I'm lucky) I'll have the full deal. Well, minus the happy switch.
Thanks again,
Crash
vicious_cb
03-03-09, 01:12
Do you sell the SPR barrels as a separate component?
And I just wanted to ask, are 16" recces actually issued in the military?
Thanks in advance :D
Do you sell the SPR barrels as a separate component?
http://www.centurionarms.com/products.html
Yup, just got to email for quote. :) If it takes a while to get a reply, just realize he may be "busy".
Anyone know what the round sleeve on the barrel between the muzzle brake and gas block does?
LonghunterCO
03-06-09, 20:09
Index for the rear of a Ops Inc silencer.
decodeddiesel
03-06-09, 21:52
Anyone know what the round sleeve on the barrel between the muzzle brake and gas block does?
It is the alignment collar for the Ops. Inc. 12th model suppressor which this weapon is basically designed around.
welchtactical
03-07-09, 00:19
It indexs the can. it's called a collar. It helps line up the can with the bore. I've shot the SPR with OPs can and Leupold Mk4. Very quiet, and scary accurate! I'd love to have one. Follow up shots are very quick, between the wieght of the rifle and the fact it's a 556. These rifles will have you shooting farther than you think is "556 range". Lesson learned, African tribal "protection" mask vs SPR Mk262 at 300+ meters, and the winner is...:D. I have to find the pics. Using the same rifle-can-ammo I've knocked the lids of 20 ounce bottles at 300m. The can I shot seemed to be the quietest of any I have shot. They arent cheap as I've been told, but the way I look at it, if your going to go through the trouble of getting a can, do it right. Guess the same goes for the uppers.
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-07-09, 13:44
I would rather buy from another ARMY man any day but you got to put up some prices on the website!
NinjaMedic
03-07-09, 13:48
Email Monty. His prices and delivery schedule vary based on parts availability and cost. He is doing low volume sales and cant order 500 parts at a time.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/Crash_1/Mk12Mod11.jpg
I've got all my ducks in a row, so to speak. I have my order in with Monty, and the Ops Inc paper work is sitting on the Sheriff's desk right now. I still have a few small odds and ends though...
Still need:
Geissele Hi-Speed Trigger
Butler Creek Scope caps
ARMS 32 Bipod Mount
Voodoochild
03-16-09, 06:32
I would rather buy from another ARMY man any day but you got to put up some prices on the website!
If you want prices either call him or email him. This is a side job for him not a full time one.
Ron Flowers
03-16-09, 10:15
Larry....I am probably gonna be sorry I asked, but what does one of these run?
Thanks,
Ron
Ron Flowers
03-16-09, 10:23
Larry....I am probably gonna be sorry I asked, but what does one of these run?
Thanks,
Ron
Voodoochild
03-16-09, 10:43
Ron your best bet is to contact Monty as he is the one who builds these not Larry. But I can tell you from owning one of Monty's MK12 uppers that it is worth every penny. You are getting the exact and I mean exact same barrel that the boys in the field are using. And he only uses the best parts available that is why I chose to get one.
Monty is a good guy and will hook you up just drop him a line and be patient he has a very important day job. But he will get back to you.
vicious_cb
03-18-09, 22:39
Will having the gas block pinned harm the accuracy potential?
Voodoochild
03-19-09, 06:29
No...
vicious_cb
03-25-09, 06:21
No...
Just asking. Ive heard incorrect pinning could possibly distort the bore.
Viscious,
You are probably right, but the key there is "Improper" Pinning. From what I have read Centurion Arms knows what they are doing. I have exchanged several e-comms and he has been helpful.
Jack
Centurion Arms clearly knows what they are doing and pinning is a far superior option to set-screws for hard use weapons.
Heys guys, does anyone know if this uses the .750 Badger gas block? They have both .750 and .875 on Badgers site.
Thanks, Wally
Wally,
E-mail Monty vis his web site. I am sorry I do not know the answer....
Jack
Thank you sir. Did about an hour ago. Just did not want to bother. Wally
Does anyone know which trigger these use? KAC Two-Stage? Thanks, Wally
Correct.
Could you please list Monty's e-mail address and/or web-page-address so we can contact him (?).
Also, what are the current Mil-Spec. Optics now being used in "threater" by the US Army (?).
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Could you please list Monty's e-mail address and/or web-page-address so we can contact him (?).
Also, what are the current Mil-Spec. Optics now being used in "threater" by the US Army (?).
Regards, RichardS in MI.
Richard, here you go:
http://www.centurionarms.com/
Click "contact".
I have done business with him, and would again.
Dave
I just ordered two of the MK12 barrels only from Monty.
Thanks guys for rthe heads up on his services. Wouldnt even have known of his existence without this site.
I look forward to seeing the barrels.
Can't speak for Army, but as shipped from CRANE to NSWC
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN0496.jpg
Looks like a KAC 2 stage trigger group in that baby.
Many thanks to Monty for the barrel hook up.
Just got them today.
A MOD 0, and a 1 are in my very near future.
I couldnt be more pleased with the quality and a very fair price.
Thanks Monty.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/MontyBarrel2.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/MontyBarrel1.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/MontyBarrel3.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-01-09, 19:07
Can't speak for Army, but as shipped from CRANE to NSWC
What NF scope is that on there?
What NF scope is that on there?
NightForce 2.5-10X24
NightForce 2.5-10X24
What reticle and variation of this scope.? It appears that the NF 2.5-10X24 is available in several different configurations.
Thanks
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-02-09, 14:03
What reticle and variation of this scope.? It appears that the NF 2.5-10X24 is available in several different configurations.
Thanks
On the NF site I see the scope has 1/4MOA adjustments, but I would think that the Military scopes would be .1cm guns, or is all the military not MIL/MIL yet.
Is it USO or NF that will make BDC turrets for you if you want?
The guys are issues 2.5-10x24 with a mil dot reticle and with 1/4mao adjustments. You will see a switch to mils over the next few years. Marines are already there Army is in route and the navy will be draged into it despite there clinging to moa and yards.
Monty, now that NF has same scope in 32 mm, do you think there is going to be change here as well, or 24 mm is all you need?
LukeMacGillie
05-02-09, 20:18
Heys guys, does anyone know if this uses the .750 Badger gas block? They have both .750 and .875 on Badgers site.
Thanks, Wally
Neither, its made in house at 2521
I would like to see the 32mm but not sure what will come of it depends if the componets ask for it. If they do it should be easy since they already have a contract with them for scopes.
The gas blocks are .750
Neither, its made in house at 2521
What's 2521?
The guys are issues 2.5-10x24 with a mil dot reticle and with 1/4mao adjustments. You will see a switch to mils over the next few years. Marines are already there Army is in route and the navy will be draged into it despite there clinging to moa and yards.
What height Night Force rings for this application? .885, 1.00, 1.25, 1.265 or 1.375
2521 is a building at Crane
rings should be 1.375 to clear the rear BUIS
2521 is a building at Crane
rings should be 1.375 to clear the rear BUIS
Thanks.
Monty,
Thanks for the clarification.
LukeMacGillie
05-03-09, 06:05
Can't speak for Army, but as shipped from CRANE to NSWC
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN0496.jpg
This is a great photo, weapon has probably not seen its first rounds at a unit and the log book is already missing:D
LOL who are we kidding team guys dont keep log books.
LukeMacGillie
05-03-09, 15:25
LOL who are we kidding team guys dont keep log books.
Yea, but you know everyone has a personal book, it just never gets transfered into the little yellow book.
Yall need some more 6 foot tall Irish Warrant's yanking guys sniper rifles and making them machinegunners for not keeping the book updated :p
true true but he is retired now infact saw him in tampa pitching for a company now. Pretty funny he has been on our side of the table so long you could tell he was awkward being on the other side.
but there is another cwo on the east coast who if given the chance will fill his shoes but it seems the E9s have a lock down on the school house now. :D
LukeMacGillie
05-03-09, 18:52
true true but he is retired now infact saw him in tampa pitching for a company now. Pretty funny he has been on our side of the table so long you could tell he was awkward being on the other side.
but there is another cwo on the east coast who if given the chance will fill his shoes but it seems the E9s have a lock down on the school house now. :D
Must be talking about a different person, this guy is a GS now, has been for the 10 months Ive been back here in Indiana, Is the king of all things Sniper weapons,
So anyway, Got a 107 in the shop at my last gig, had a dope card taped to the stock, but overwritten in perm sharpie was "Get your own dope Shithead", LOL
Ahhh figured you were talkin about wojay you must be talking about the retired CWO bald guy working the sniper rifles there at crane thats about the time frame he went from contractor to GS I saw him a few weeks ago in Coronado dealing with PSR.
NinjaMedic
05-04-09, 19:41
What bipod would yall recommend for these types of rifles? What do they issue?
What bipod would yall recommend for these types of rifles? What do they issue?
Harris
Check this out. Has a lot of good info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle
NinjaMedic
05-11-09, 18:13
Just in from Monty with a pinned gas block :D, no $ for optics for this rifle this paycheck.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/100_0297.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/100_0298.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/100_0299.jpg
Outstanding TacMedic!
I got the word from Monty about 2 weeks ago, I should have mine soon too. I have everything ready to go, with the exception of a long transfer process on the Ops Inc. 12th Model. As soon as mine comes in, I'll get some pics up. What optics are you looking at? I went with the Leupold 60170 MR/T.
TacMedic,
It still look sharp even without the optic. Thanks for sharing the pics with us. Enjoy and give us your feedback after a range session!
NinjaMedic
05-12-09, 15:38
As soon as I can get out probably this weekend Ill definitely put it through its paces, hell ill even put a 3-round group up to see how accurate it is lol.
I purchased two barrels from Monty.
I went ahead and built a MOD 0 and a MOD 1.
Due to the hideous expense of the OPS 12 Model brake and collar, I was only able to mount that on the 0 series. I went with a standard OPS Brake, and thats not cheap either.
No suppressor for me in this State I am in. I envy those who can personally own them.
I researched on the web for as much info I could find on the Black Hills MK262 ammo. I had purchased 500 bullets of the Sierra 77 SMK cannalure (sp?). It seems reloaders are having a hard time matching the velocity figures Black Hills is getting with the un-obtainable powder they use. (This was what I found out in a rather limited search on the topic posted several years ago)
I went with Varget, mixed head stamp brass, and Federal primers. Bullets OAL was 2.260.
I tried 23.5, 23.8, 24.0, 24.1, 24.2 grain weights. I have not chronoed this yet, as I wanted just to see what accuracy would be like.
What was interesting, was on Sunday I shot both rifles side by side, with the same cleaning style.
I cleaned after every round up to five, then cleaned after five rounds, then finally after 10 rounds.
I ran a B&L 4200 6-24 on the MOD 0 as I havent purchased the Leupold and the ARMs rings as of yet.
6.5-20 Leupold on the MOD 1.
The first group on Targets 1 and 3 were sighters with Remington 55 grain FMJ. The next five groups on both rows were with the reloads. They are shot in order of increasing powder values.
Targets 1-2 are the MOD 0 build. On those targets, 5-6 shots see my final correction for POI.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/Sunday5_10_2009Mod1and28.jpg
Targets 3-4 series, or bottom row are the MOD 1.
I was surprised by the difference in accuracy with both barrels. This could be due to my use of the PRI with back up Irons on the MOD 0, and the low profile PRI gas block on the MOD 1.
I also didnt notice any real recoil difference with either brake.
I havent ruled out the gas block as of yet, and need further testing.
The target below reflects what I did yesterday with the MOD 1. I narrowed down my ammo, and attempted to test 3 different loadings.
23.5, 24.0, and 24.2.
The wind kicked up in a big way on group 3, and I quickly ended my testing.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/MOD1Targets3.jpg
Group B, reflects 10 rounds of the 24.0 Varget loading.
Group C reflects wind kick up, as the 24.2 Grains shot pretty well on Sunday. The two rounds out of there are almost certainly shooter induced issues..(I am no bench rest shooter)
I see the potential for excellence for the MOD 1 barrel. I am greatly encouraged by it accuracy. I havent even tried BL(C) or a couple other powder configs.
I will continue to experiment with the MOD 0.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/MOD1Rifle.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g42/parlier61/MOD1Rifle1.jpg
What I can say, is that I am incredibly thanful to Monty and Centurion Arms for the incredible barrels.
I cant say enough about the overall finish, and incredible history for this series of barrels.
I love the fact I have barrels available only to Monty, outside of the Military. I am additionally thankful for the forum here in introducing me to Monty. Without the forum here, I may have never heard of Monty.
Testing will continue.
Thankyou MATT P for this very helpful post. I received a complete MOD12 MKI upper from CenturionArms/Monty a week or so ago. I couldn't be more happy with the workmanship! I haven't had a chance to take it to the range yet. I have everyhting including the OPS 12th model silencer, KAC lower with the KAC 2-stage trigger, KAC bipod adapter with the correct Harris BRM S bipod and KMW Pod-Loc.
I'm missing two things, the optic and the ammunition. I called Black Hills this morning and ordered a thousand rounds of 77gr Sierra MK, only one problem, I will not receive it for over 12 months from now. If I can find some smaller quantity in the meantime I'll be able to put my new upper through its paces.
The other issue is the optic. I have researched this and a Leupold or the newer Nightforce scopes are available but I would prefer to put an S&B on this rifle. I am in the process of trying to identify the best S&B scope that is the equivalent of the previously mentioned "official" scopes. Working on that right now. (If anyone can make a suggestion on this I would really appreciate the help.)
Again, thanks for the extremely helpful post.
"Wagner'
Whitehall, PA
No problem Wagner.
I should have mentioned I shot 5 rd groups, except for the one 10 round.
I dont represent my handloads as the extreme to which one can go through in preperation of handloaded ammunition.
I didnt deburr flash holes, no set the seating depth of the primers. Nor were the cases trimmed.
All powder was thrown with a RCBS auto powder. So, I know the powder charge was as accurate as I could get.
I may take some new brass, and prep it properly to see if any change would be present.
The barrels will shoot as well as you can for sure. Excellent quality.
NinjaMedic
05-13-09, 17:14
Wagner, I didn't realize Black Hills would sell MK262 to the public, are these seconds?
My other question is, since I have been considering reloading is why is the powder that Black Hills uses unobtainable? I mean they get it from somewhere. With all of the people interested in loading MK262, couldn't we just find out who is supplying what to Black Hills and facilitate a group purchase to meet their minimum order quantity? Or is it simply that there is no more of the powder available due to attempting to fill military orders?
Wagner, I didn't realize Black Hills would sell MK262 to the public, are these seconds?
My other question is, since I have been considering reloading is why is the powder that Black Hills uses unobtainable? I mean they get it from somewhere. With all of the people interested in loading MK262, couldn't we just find out who is supplying what to Black Hills and facilitate a group purchase to meet their minimum order quantity? Or is it simply that there is no more of the powder available due to attempting to fill military orders?
I ordered the 77gr. sierra MatchKing, new factory ammo as described on their website. This same cartridge is also available from Black Hills as "Remanufactured" which means it is loaded with once fired brass. It is not the MK262 but I figured it would be as close as us civilians can get. I have no idea what powder they use and like you I would really like to know.
Black Hills also offers this cartridge in a Moly Coat. Is the MK262 cartridge Moly Coat or not?
Someone could certainly correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the powder that the ammo manufactures use is rather closely guarded.
They as practice do not divulge what specs. on the powder that they use.
Further, there would be no way to purchase what Black Hills uses, as the manufacture would not sell you the same series that BH uses.
tango-papa
05-20-09, 14:57
Fantastic shots - thanks for putting those up.
Monty does some fantastic work!
Fantastic shots - thanks for putting those up.
Monty does some fantastic work!
+1. very helpful, Great job SMGLee! I would love to know what coating Crane used to refinish that Hydra-Matic lower?
Stretz Tactical Inc
05-28-09, 13:45
Does anyone know if there is a phone number? I have emailed them twice in the last month and no reply.
Due to Montys "other" job, he may be away from a computer for some time. It took me about 2-3 months to bring about the barrels I purchased.
I understood Montys other activities, and waited.
Its my impression that he WILL return your emails when he is able and free.
After shooting those barrels, its my contention the quality and the fact he is the only one we can get them through, its WELL worth the wait.
He will get back to you.
Stretz Tactical Inc
05-28-09, 14:37
Thanks Matt! Understood.
I am pleased to say Monty got back to me today, only after just a couple days.
He is awaiting on another shipment.
Soon, he will have more.
Does anyone know if there is a phone number? I have emailed them twice in the last month and no reply.
I've corresponded with Monty a couple of times for the past month via e-mail. You may want to check to see if it's an issue with your e-mail, i.e. junk mail filter or spam, that may block his reply to you. Maybe try PM him on the forum. I did see him logged on the forum throughout this month as well.
I recently purchased a MK12 MODI upper from Monty and the email communication was excellent.
Just purchased a Centurion midlength CHF upper that I spec'd w/ pinned gasblock, AAC blackout suppressor mount flash hider, PRI GB, and DD RIS-2 fore-end. I may put a Nightforce variable on it, or go with my standard default - an Aimpoint ML3 in LaRue mount.
vicious_cb
06-04-09, 02:55
What kind of accuracy are you getting with the SPRs?
Voodoochild
06-04-09, 17:32
Very good groups..Shoots better than I can. I am having an issue with the NF scope though. I gotta call Monty and see what he has to say about it.
What NF scope are you using? I'm considering getting one for my upper. What kind of problem?
Voodoochild
06-04-09, 22:10
NF 2.5-10X Zero Stop. My problem is I am shooting to the right and cant adjust left because I am adjusted all the way left to the stop. I will get in touch with Monty and get it fixed. The scope is good shit and I think it is worth the money.
Voodoo,
The issue you are having is becuase of the windage limiter there should be some instructions with the scope that will tell you how to handle this. Basically there is a tit on the windage knob that only allows for 1/2 a turn for windage if you cant zero it you need to remove the windage knob and reset it so you get the adjustment you need to zero. Once you have a good no wind zero the limiter saves you from being a revolution off and you shouldn't really need to dial in more then 4 moa.
Monty
Thanks SMGLee,
I am familiar with this excellent photograph of yours. It appears that this rifle has the NF Ultralite rings, extra high, as opposed to the steel rings. I am trying to find out what is the closest civilian available NF 2.5-10X24 scope that is the equivalent to the one on the rifle in your picture. I believe the Crane issued scope is Mil-Dot reticle, 1/4 min click value and zero stop. I'm trying to make sure I purchase the closest version of this scope. Any help would be appreciated.
Voodoochild
06-05-09, 13:10
Drop a line to Monty (grinch) and he will lay it all out for you. He is a good dude and will make sure you get what you are looking for. Either way you can't go wrong with this upper. I looked at about 4 different dealers that make MK12ish uppers. And it took me no time at all to buy one from Monty.
And that coming from me might not mean much but I am a ****ing tight wad with my money. So I spent my money with Monty and would do it again in a heart beat.
My MK12 project has been on hold for many years while waiting to get the correct barrel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/SPR05.jpg
Looks like I can get one now.
I think SMGlee pics are GOA-gone on arrival
NinjaMedic
07-13-09, 16:45
yeah it seems none of his pics are working on any sites lately
SMG's pics are still there. It could be an issue with M4C site as I was having a problem accessing yesterday.
Just saw a quick glimse on a stock video from FOX showing a carbine very similar to the Centurion rifle being carried by a soldier in Afghanistan. The video was quick but clearly showed a KAC RAS (looked shorter than on the Mk12), exposed low profile gas block, OPS muzzle brake with collar and some kind of variable power illuminated scope. I couldn't tell if the barrel was 18" or what, or if the stock was A2 or what. Maybe they'll show it again.
decodeddiesel
07-19-09, 12:14
Just saw a quick glimse on a stock video from FOX showing a carbine very similar to the Centurion rifle being carried by a soldier in Afghanistan. The video was quick but clearly showed a KAC RAS (looked shorter than on the Mk12), exposed low profile gas block, OPS muzzle brake with collar and some kind of variable power illuminated scope. I couldn't tell if the barrel was 18" or what, or if the stock was A2 or what. Maybe they'll show it again.
Sam, that it the whole point behind the Centurion Arms rifle. The weapon you saw was the Mk. 12 Mod. 1 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR). The really awesome thing about the Centurion Arms upper is it is the most accurate copy a civilian can buy.
Good catch though.
Larry asked me to pass along that the next Tactical Arms episode will be featuring the Centurion Arms MK12 Mod1 rifle. Larry will not be in this actual eposide but his rifle will be. Kyle Defoor and Jason Falla will be covering the rifle, it's history, and capabilities thoroughly. Should be very interesting.
http://www.tacticalarms.tv
For more info:
Centurion Arms (Owned by grinch - M4c SME):
http://centurionarms.com/products/p002_mk12_mod1_upper.html
Vickers Tactical (Larry Vickers - M4c SME):
http://vickerstactical.com
U.S. Training Center:
http://www.ustraining.com/new/index.asp
Kyle Defoor (M4c SME):
http://www.kyledefoor.com
Jason Falla (M4c SME):
http://www.jasonfalla.com
SeriousStudent
07-19-09, 13:22
That should be a very good episode. I am really enjoying the format of the new series a great deal.
Thanks for the heads up!
I like the Centurian video via the link above--now I see where our poppers went!;)
I'm saving up for one of these for sure!
I like the Centurian video via the link above--now I see where our poppers went!;)
Do you have a link to that video of the MK12? I can't seem to find it.
Thanks.
Do you have a link to that video of the MK12? I can't seem to find it.
Thanks.
It's the Tactical Arms website at http://www.tacticalarms.tv/
Prisonmike
08-15-09, 22:22
Just a question, what purpose does the collar have on the barrel?
LonghunterCO
08-15-09, 22:42
Just a question, what purpose does the collar have on the barrel?
Index for the silencer. Op Inc.
The last 20 seconds or so of this Fox video showed the Mk12 carried by US forces.
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=8790786&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/
Hope the link works.
LonghunterCO
08-29-09, 11:47
The last 20 seconds or so of this Fox video showed the Mk12 carried by US forces.
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=8790786&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/
Hope the link works.
That was pretty cool.
Has anyone gotten a MK12 barrel from Monty lately? I have not heard anything for awhile.
I've been on the waiting list for a Mark 12 upper since April. Monty let me know that some parts are still coming in, and it should be ready beginning of November.
Has anyone gotten a MK12 barrel from Monty lately? I have not heard anything for awhile.
About 6 weeks ago I had exchanged emails with Monty to get a barrel. He said he was expecting some in. After being on his waiting list for a week, I found a Douglas barrel elsewhere and thus cancelled my order from Monty.
Has anyone gotten a MK12 barrel from Monty lately? I have not heard anything for awhile.
I had an email exchange with Monty the other day. I ended up putting myself on the back order list for a barrel. He didn't give an ETA. Worth the wait, though!
I exchanged some emails with Monty and he said it would be a few months wait on the mk12 barrel. Let the waiting begin :(
I am getting ready to put a batch out now so if your on the list already you maybe getting it soon if you are ordering now it will take me a few months to get the next batch of barrels.
Thanks
Monty
Damn these look great, and here I thought I didnt want an SPR anymore. Small world I used to live down the street next to the Crown Inn & Bistro.
What kind of groups with lighter (55 grain ball) rounds?
It all depends on the ammo and the quality of the bullets. The chamber is set up for the Sierra Match King ogive and the lightest MK bullet in 5.56 is the 69gr. Now, that is not to say that your 55gr won't shoot sub-MOA, it's just not optimized for it. Odds are, if it's quality ammo, it will run well through the upper and shoot sub-MOA. The fact that the upper has a 1/7 twist is also not an issue. I've heard lots of people say it "over-stabilizes" the bullet, but I've yet to see a bullet be "too stable". The issue would be that spinning a bullet faster could cause more "wobble" due to any minute differences in copper jacket thickness. This is why it goes back to the quality of the bullet itself since when using a quality bullet this is just a phenomena we don't see especially at the effective ranges this weapon is used at. There is absolutely no downside to having a 1/7 twist barrel on 5.56 platform. It is simply the most versatile twist rate to have and allows you to shoot all available ammo with the overall best results.
Currently, there is a lot of research and work being done in the long range field of shooting that is using faster twist rates than recommended for the bullets they are using and they are not seeing any degradation in accuracy. We are coming to the conclusion that the greenhill formula is a bit dated to an era where the bullet construction was not what it is today. There are guys shooting amazing groups out to 1500-1600 yards with barrels that have way too fast of a twist rate according to greenhill.
Thanks
Monty
It all depends on the ammo and the quality of the bullets. The chamber is set up for the Sierra Match King ogive and the lightest MK bullet in 5.56 is the 69gr. Now, that is not to say that your 55gr won't shoot sub-MOA, it's just not optimized for it. Odds are, if it's quality ammo, it will run well through the upper and shoot sub-MOA. The fact that the upper has a 1/7 twist is also not an issue. I've heard lots of people say it "over-stabilizes" the bullet, but I've yet to see a bullet be "too stable". The issue would be that spinning a bullet faster could cause more "wobble" due to any minute differences in copper jacket thickness. This is why it goes back to the quality of the bullet itself since when using a quality bullet this is just a phenomena we don't see especially at the effective ranges this weapon is used at. There is absolutely no downside to having a 1/7 twist barrel on 5.56 platform. It is simply the most versatile twist rate to have and allows you to shoot all available ammo with the overall best results.
Currently, there is a lot of research and work being done in the long range field of shooting that is using faster twist rates than recommended for the bullets they are using and they are not seeing any degradation in accuracy. We are coming to the conclusion that the greenhill formula is a bit dated to an era where the bullet construction was not what it is today. There are guys shooting amazing groups out to 1500-1600 yards with barrels that have way too fast of a twist rate according to greenhill.
Thanks
Monty
Great info.
Thanks
I have one of Monty's Mk12 and one of his DMRs, they are both excellent quality products. I will post some pics when I get home tonight. These two rifles with crane spec barrels are the most accurate ARs that I own--that is in comparison to KAC, Noveske, Colt, and LMT offerings as well as several others brands.
I ordered a MK12 Mod 1 upper from Monty just before Christmas. I'm really excited about this one. Just trying to forget about it until i get the word that it's ready. For anyone else that's interested I recently noticed that Centurion Arms has a new website up.
Ryan,
Thank you I'm glad you like them.
Monty
Pics as promised
DMR
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/CenturionDMR.jpg
Mk12 upper
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1_2.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1_3.jpg
Both incredibly accurate, even with M855. Definitely makes the limiting factor the bullet and the trigger puller instead of the upper! I was able to hit pop cans at 100 yards with open sights on the Mk12 over the summer with ease. I cannot do that with any other weapon that I own consistently. I know thats not as accurate as sitting down with the target and showing the little holes, but its what I had at the time after I sighted the rifle.
I'm taking a longer leave this summer and plan on spending alot of time with these two builds. Both have geissele DMR triggers now as well.
The C4 Diopter sites are also great! I'm hoping to have the same results as with the KAC flip ups this summer.
Ryan,
great pics thanks for sharing.
Monty
GermanSynergy
02-02-10, 16:05
Monty emailed me last night informing me that my MK 12 build is complete. It's going to wear a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 with MILRAD turrets, MILDOT reticle / Zero Stop in a Larue SPR mount.....
Can't wait to get it and see what it can do with some BHA 77's.... :D
I recieved one of Monty's uppers after New Years. I paired it up to a Rock River Arms lower with a Giesselle SSA trigger and an old school M-16A1 stock. Glass is a NF 2.5-10x32 with Zero Stop MOA turrets, with NP-R2 reticle, and Ultra lite high NF rings.
Just as others have said, a freaking laser. I put some Silver State Armory 77gr match through it, at 100 yds, I put three rounds though a jagged little hole smaller then a dime.
I would recommend Monty's services uppers to any of my fellow cake eater friends looking for a precision build.
Monty emailed me last night informing me that my MK 12 build is complete. It's going to wear a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 with MILRAD turrets, MILDOT reticle / Zero Stop in a Larue SPR mount.....
Can't wait to get it and see what it can do with some BHA 77's.... :D
Your gonna love it! Absolutely smooth recoil impulse, the Ops Inc brake works well.
I just heard that the correct NF scope, the NightForce NXS 2.5-10x24 Mildot Zero Stop Turrets, is being discontinued. Is this so? If it is what scope is going to be used on future Mk12 MOD 1's?
decodeddiesel
02-18-10, 21:41
Same Nightforce but with a 32mm objective lens. This is an upgrade.
http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/COMPACT_NXS_MODELS_/compact2_5-10x32nxs_/2.5-10x32_1_09.pdf
decodeddiesel
02-18-10, 22:03
What is the current wait time on these uppers?
Could I have one in hand by June?
hey monty here is your barrel on JD upper lower :D
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/hardcharger_photos/noname-1.jpg
GermanSynergy
03-04-10, 13:57
Just got my MK 12 Mod 1 upper from Monty. Gonna take pics and hit the range here soon. :)
Got my barrel this week and just got the rifle together today. Looks great! Can't wait to take it to the range. Thanks again, Monty.
Sorry for the cellphone pic:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r52/Cuda444/IMG00110.jpg
Just needs irons and a NF NXS. It's only money, after all :rolleyes:
What is the current wait time on these uppers?
Could I have one in hand by June?
Email Monty through the Centurion Arms website and ask to be put on the list. I asked to be on the list back in late October I believe and just got my barrel this week. Monty stated the upper builds are backed up due to a lack of the Ops Inc muzzle breaks, so the wait could be even longer. But talking with Monty directly, he is excellent about giving accurate wait times and is very quick to respond. Top notch outfit he has going for himself.
I've had my Centurion 16" midlength for a year and love it.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/B055H0GG/DSCF0322small.jpg
Belmont31R
04-21-10, 18:31
Just got a Mk12 barrel from Centurion, and am having Gun Gallery build me a Mk12 upper. Just got the glass for it.....Nightforce 2.5x10x32 and will be in NF rings.
Just got a Mk12 barrel from Centurion, and am having Gun Gallery build me a Mk12 upper. Just got the glass for it.....Nightforce 2.5x10x32 and will be in NF rings.
Which reticle did you get?
Belmont31R
04-22-10, 12:51
Which reticle did you get?
Mil-Dot.....
Belmont31R
04-23-10, 20:04
Got my SPR barrel today. Not sure why it came unfinished.....? Now another 2 weeks in getting this put together....:(
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/DSC_0239.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/DSC_0251.jpg
Nightforce going on top..
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/DSC_0261-2.jpg
spamsammich
04-23-10, 21:48
All the barrels I've ever purchased have had unparked barrel extensions.
Belmont31R
04-24-10, 06:34
All the barrels I've ever purchased have had unparked barrel extensions.
No Im talking about the barrel not being black when the complete uppers come with a black barrel. Guess I should have paid more attention to the pics on their site....:cool:
Also probably going to have to ditch the NF rings, and go with a LaRue mount. I mounted the scope with NF rings on another upper, and I can get it far enough forward to be comfortable even with the rings as far back as they can go on the scope, and as far forward on the upper receiver.
When you shoot it, you won't mind as much :)
I have one of his Mk12 mod1s and a DMR. The Mk12 is black, the DMR is uncoated. These barrels are incredible. I'm not the most amazing marksman in the world, so if I can get sub-MOA groups from an AR--there is truly a lot more to be had from these uppers.
One of my goals when I leave Iraq and start living a normal life is to develop my marksmanship to be as good as my best rifle. These are definitely among my best.
As for ammo, BH77SMK seems to work best, but I also have sub-MOA results from BH69SMK and even LC855 is in the 2MOA range with 5 shot groups at 100M.
I have some acutal Mk262 to try when I'm home in June, since this barrel was designed around that round I am very curious as to the results will be.
Belmont31R
04-24-10, 15:06
When you shoot it, you won't mind as much :)
I have one of his Mk12 mod1s and a DMR. The Mk12 is black, the DMR is uncoated. These barrels are incredible. I'm not the most amazing marksman in the world, so if I can get sub-MOA groups from an AR--there is truly a lot more to be had from these uppers.
One of my goals when I leave Iraq and start living a normal life is to develop my marksmanship to be as good as my best rifle. These are definitely among my best.
As for ammo, BH77SMK seems to work best, but I also have sub-MOA results from BH69SMK and even LC855 is in the 2MOA range with 5 shot groups at 100M.
I have some acutal Mk262 to try when I'm home in June, since this barrel was designed around that round I am very curious as to the results will be.
Yeah Im looking forward to getting this put together. We have a new 1k yard range going in right now about 30 minutes from me so Ill have plenty of room to stretch its legs.
Also like you a point to this is to expand my ability in "precision shooting", and working with the mil-dot scope.
I have a few hundred rounds of Mk262 as my "go to" ammo but I really like the 5.56 77GR SMK load from SSA. Its basically a Mk262 clone, and its pretty easy to get a hold of. Its grouped consistently around .75-1" out of my 16" Stealth upper and Short-Dot. I also shoot quite a bit of Black Hills 75GR OTM....
I'd probably better plug Geissle a little here too, I use their DMR triggers in my Centurion builds along with Mapgul PRS stocks, and POF Gen III lowers.
I've done everything I can to take the rifle out of the equation in terms of accuracy issues. I know if I am failing, it is me and not the rifle or the ammo.
I really like the KAC irons on the Mk12, I bought a couple of other sets for different builds as well. At first I didn't like the rear peep but it grew on me really fast. Now I don't like not having it. I also tried the diopters, but I'm really sold on the KAC setup. That's just my preference though, the centurion diops are very well made and live happily on a Sig 556 now.
Belmont31R
04-24-10, 16:47
I'd probably better plug Geissle a little here too, I use their DMR triggers in my Centurion builds along with Mapgul PRS stocks, and POF Gen III lowers.
I've done everything I can to take the rifle out of the equation in terms of accuracy issues. I know if I am failing, it is me and not the rifle or the ammo.
I really like the KAC irons on the Mk12, I bought a couple of other sets for different builds as well. At first I didn't like the rear peep but it grew on me really fast. Now I don't like not having it. I also tried the diopters, but I'm really sold on the KAC setup. That's just my preference though, the centurion diops are very well made and live happily on a Sig 556 now.
I just got a LMT lower, and put a DMR trigger in it for this rifle. Definately crisper than the SSA I am used to.
Also going to go with a KAC M4 front BUIS, and Mirco 600 rear. Actually all I use for any BUIS is KAC.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1_2.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1_3.jpg
These photos were taken before I installed the DMR trigger (which is about 1.5 to 2x wider than the standard trigger). Also has a KAC bipod adapter for Harris BRM-S with pod-loc and raptor feet. I might swap out for a KAC M110 stock, swap some taupe panels on there and change it around a little.
crowkiller
04-24-10, 18:26
Where do you guys buy your DMRs from?
http://www.pkfirearms.com/content/1/20/35/125
Pk does a good job of getting a hold of these and other hard to find parts. I've done a lot of business with them over the years.
Belmont31R
04-24-10, 19:51
Where do you guys buy your DMRs from?
I also bought mine from PK. They are a good place to order from, and ship quick. If you order something at midnight you'll have a shipping notice that morning.
Belmont31R
04-24-10, 19:52
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1_2.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12mod1_3.jpg
These photos were taken before I installed the DMR trigger (which is about 1.5 to 2x wider than the standard trigger). Also has a KAC bipod adapter for Harris BRM-S with pod-loc and raptor feet. I might swap out for a KAC M110 stock, swap some taupe panels on there and change it around a little.
Id like the KAC stock but no way Im paying that much. Its just a Cav Arms stock body with the adjustment mechanism put in by KAC if what I remember is right.
GermanSynergy
04-25-10, 20:36
Here are a few snapshots I've taken of my MK 12 Mod 1 upper. I have fired a total of 100 rds through it, and am very impressed. Optic is a NF 2.5-10x32 on a LT SPR mount. Reticle and w/e knobs are MD/MR.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/mk12.jpg
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac358/steyraug21/mk12_3.jpg
GermanSynergy,
Thanks for posting those pics. That is virtually identical to the setup i am waiting on. What ammo have you tried so far and how did it shoot?
GermanSynergy
04-27-10, 09:00
GermanSynergy,
Thanks for posting those pics. That is virtually identical to the setup i am waiting on. What ammo have you tried so far and how did it shoot?
So far I've fired 100 rds of SSA's 77 grain MK 262 type loading. It's grouped sub MOA to be sure, but I think the barrel needs to be worn in yet. Very satisfied with it and am going to see how it shoots with actual BHA MK 262 seconds probably next week.:cool:
Belmont31R
04-27-10, 13:06
So far I've fired 100 rds of SSA's 77 grain MK 262 type loading. It's grouped sub MOA to be sure, but I think the barrel needs to be worn in yet. Very satisfied with it and am going to see how it shoots with actual BHA MK 262 seconds probably next week.:cool:
Thats pretty much the setup Im going with as well. I shot some SSA 77GR yesterday, and was able to get some sub MOA groups @ 200 (different upper). I hope it shoots as well in my Mk12 build (sent parts off yesterday to be put together) as Id like a factory round to have lots of stock in that shoots good in all my guns.
I haven't been able to find any BH Mk262 in a long time......
Belmont31R
05-02-10, 14:22
So I guess the Badger Ord Mk12 gasblock does not align with the dimple on the barrel for the set screws to lock into.....are these barrels cut for something else?
Mk12 gasblock should align. I didn't buy as parts though so I don't know if Monty has a few more steps in his process. Is it forward or backward of where it should be? Is the final assembler using a standard rifle length gas tube? If you found a Knights Mk12 gas tube, I believe it is slightly different and that may be affecting your build.
Belmont31R
05-02-10, 14:53
Mk12 gasblock should align. I didn't buy as parts though so I don't know if Monty has a few more steps in his process. Is it forward or backward of where it should be? Is the final assembler using a standard rifle length gas tube? If you found a Knights Mk12 gas tube, I believe it is slightly different and that may be affecting your build.
Gun Gallery is doing my build, and they do lots of KAC stuff. Neil (owner) called me, and said when the gas port is aligned with the gas block the dimple does not line up with the set screw. I don't see how the gas tube would make a difference if the port in the gas block is aligned with the port in the barrel.
From what I have gathered my build is using the exact parts on mil builds so I dont see why things would be off. I know Gun Gallery has experience with these builds, they stock the Ops Incs parts, and so I trust their expertise on this. Only thing I can think of is the barrels are cut for the Stag gas block you can get as an option, and are different than the actual Mk12 gas blocks.
Roger that, I wasn't tracking with what you had posted previously. I thought it sounded like the gas block itself wasn't lining up. If the gas port of the barrel is aligned with the gas port on the gas block I would also have expected the set screw dimple to align. It should be easy enough for them to add that dimple, but I can understand you wanting it to have been correct out of the box.
I'll upload a pic of my DMR build so you can compare to the MK12 and see if that helps.
Close-up on DMR front end
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/dmrcrop.jpg
Close-up on Mk12 front end
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/iact9a/mk12crop.jpg
Definitely a difference there. I'd have to let Monty comment further.
Belmont31R
05-03-10, 15:04
Definitely a difference there. I'd have to let Monty comment further.
Only thing I can think of is the gas blocks you can get as an option on his sight have the set screw holes cut in a different location than the Mk12 Badger Ord gas block, and the barrel dimples are being cut for the one you can get as an option which is not the Mk12 gas block.
My upper is being sent back to me today so Ill have some pics in a few days.
The barrels are made to the exact spec to include the holes in the bottom and the wholes don't line up very well with the badger ord gas block and they don't match up on the military guns either its pretty much same same and when you pin them its a non issue.
Belmont31R
05-22-10, 23:50
The barrels are made to the exact spec to include the holes in the bottom and the wholes don't line up very well with the badger ord gas block and they don't match up on the military guns either its pretty much same same and when you pin them its a non issue.
Cool. Ive got about 400rds through my build so far, and the GB hasn't been an issue. Gun Gallery in FL put it together, and they said it should be fine as is as well.
Only issue Im having is with two optics now Im getting a lack of downward elevation. Meaning on a NF NXS 2.5-10X32 I only get 45" downward elevation @ 100 yards (180 clicks @ .25 per click), and on a SB 3-12x50 "military" with MTC turrets I bottom out at 120 clicks (.10 MRAD). The turret is supposed to spin down to 22 mrad (220 clicks). For some reason the gun is shooting low enough both optics have minimal downward traverse before they just run out of internal adjustment. Both had different mounts so I dont think its the scope or mount.
Tomorrow Im going to mount the SB to my Stealth, and see if I can get it zero'd to where I get a full 22 mrad adjustment with the turret as its supposed to.
I'm so jealous. I want to finish my SPR already. Still saving up for the upper. I already have the lower all set up for the upper. Then I still have to get the scope I want to use for the SPR.
Belmont31R
05-25-10, 12:29
I'm so jealous. I want to finish my SPR already. Still saving up for the upper. I already have the lower all set up for the upper. Then I still have to get the scope I want to use for the SPR.
Definitely a sweet setup to shoot with. One of the more enjoyable AR setups IMO.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/9d3d8376.jpg
Belmont31R
06-04-10, 20:53
Apologize for not getting back to this sooner.
Tried the PMII on the LaRue, and there was only about a mil difference in zero.
I shot a couple hundred rounds through it today, and tried some different ammo in addition to what I normally shoot. Neither the Stealth or Mk12 liked the TAP .223 75GR stuff. Was getting about 2" groups @100. Tried some Blackhills red box 77GR SMK's, and was getting about an inch. SSA 77GR SMK 5.56 was doing about 1.25". Hornady 75GR .223 match was about 1.1". I fired several groups of each so these are averages. Best group was .78 with BH 77 SMK.
This group was right about an inch based on the calculator.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/7f6250e8.jpg
Mine is ready and should be on the way any day now. I can't wait!
MK12 are in stock this is the first time I've been able to catch I have a few built and on hand.
Thanks
Monty
Here's mine.
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad323/choofnagle/MK12.jpg
iwouldntknow
08-31-10, 20:48
placed an order for a 16 inch lw barrel last night placeholder for pics
I'm going to get one of these uppers myself for a build. Well this or a Noveske Crusader, but I'm thinking of building this and just buying the whole Crusader...
Anyways, I see a variety of stocks on all the Mk12's posted. I'm thinking of using either the UBR or the CTR, while I decide, I would like to know why everyone went with what they did. Does anybody's rifle feel front heavy at all with thier Emod or CTR or anyhthing versus an A2 stock as shown on Temlar's rifle and on the centurian arms website?
And am I right in guessing that a 77gr 5.56 round is close to the Mk262 round or is there a brand specific 77gr round for it, I see the black hills being mentioned and another SSA I believe.
Dangerousdan
09-18-10, 22:04
I would like to know if Larry can build an exact configuration of this upper only in 6.8/ also what is the time to receiver an order?
Dangerousdan
09-18-10, 22:06
I would like to know if Larry can build an exact configuration of this upper only in 6.8 also what is the time to receiver an order?
I have purchased guns/uppers from LMT, HK, LWRC, Bushmaster (not my best moment) and I can say hands down Monty has the best customer service anywhere! Had a hell of a time with computer, sent Monty an email, and he called me back. Looking forward to my MK12 upper.
Not to knock the other companies but Monty puts the personal touch.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms/Stck_3427-A-1024-Stick.jpg
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms/Stck_3577-1024-Stick.jpg
Here is my SPR build. Did it myself out of a bare upper and lower. Upper was a Colt one I got for a song from a good friend's generosity.
Barrel for this gun and my 16" one both came from Monty. One of the nicest guys on the planet as far as I'm concerned.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/goddamnit/SWS/MK12Mod1.jpg?t=1303029322
Monty,
I was looking at the Centurion Arms website the other day and the wait for the MK-12 MOD 1 is still about 6 months. Is that correct or do you have any uppers available at this time? I appreciate it.
Thanks
Mike
Voodoochild
07-14-11, 14:24
My turn.
My turn.
Bastard! That looks great! How does it shoot?
Voodoochild
07-24-11, 21:20
Bastard! That looks great! How does it shoot?
Amazing. It is dead nuts accurate couldn't be happier.
gorgeous rifles, gents! Thinking about starting to save up and build one of these.
freefalle7
12-18-11, 02:14
AMF guy using my personal MK12 upper on A2 lower to spot while zeroing his PKM
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL965/4056977/12946540/284626114.jpg
Better pic
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL965/4056977/12946540/313668928.jpg
post deployment back on the RRA lower
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL965/4056977/8434974/370475882.jpg
Does anyone have a link to the Centurion arms website??
http://centurionarms.net/
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-10-12, 14:08
Old thread I know but what happend to his web page?
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-10-12, 14:13
Disregard my bad its .net not .com
Sorry for the necropost on this, but I just read through all 12 pages and couldn't find why Larry's is built on an old RRA lower. Is that just what he had laying around, or to meet some kind of spec?
An A1 lower is correct. Armalite upper with M4 ramps (standard on Armalites I'm told) at least on early rifles.
The Mod 1 I handled had a Geissele SSA. NOT an SSF.
ridgerunner70
08-29-12, 18:20
Sorry for the necropost on this, but I just read through all 12 pages and couldn't find why Larry's is built on an old RRA lower. Is that just what he had laying around, or to meet some kind of spec?
If this is the same rifle he had on his Tac-TV -SPR episode with Monte I remember LAV stating that he wanted Monte to build his as close to original as he could get. I believe that's what he said.
Does anyone have experience with the standard DMR upper that centurion offers? e.g. what kind of groups is it capable of doing?
http://www.centurionarms.net/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=176
damongernentz
12-22-12, 04:47
I am just gonna wing it on this on and say that the Rock River lower was probably just the part of opportunity at the time. As far a true to spec. I would hazard to guess that the lower would be a Colt or something similar.
yeah we make our own lowers now the pic the upper was just put on a lower laying around.
yeah we make our own lowers now the pic the upper was just put on a lower laying around.
LOL That last post was from 6 YEARS ago! But I'm glad this got bumped; interesting and timely thread. I'm about to starting building MK12ish rifle.
LOL That last post was from 6 YEARS ago! But I'm glad this got bumped; interesting and timely thread. I'm about to starting building MK12ish rifle.
LOL its been awhile since I been on any forum LOL but we are still doing upper rails and more now expanding.
let us know if you need anything or we can be of any help!!
This is good timing! Also just getting started on a build for one of these uppers and will definitely be using a Centurion barrel. Question on handguard, is the PRI gen 3 still a viable option? I don't really have a need for all the rail space on the RAS, or any other quad rail.
This is good timing! Also just getting started on a build for one of these uppers and will definitely be using a Centurion barrel. Question on handguard, is the PRI gen 3 still a viable option? I don't really have a need for all the rail space on the RAS, or any other quad rail.
ill have to look but I THINK PRI is still offering them. I know i have a couple of their handguards in the shop have to see what type they are.
Thank you
Monty
Monty,
Thanks for the reply. I did see that PRI had some stock available direct. I was wondering if you had come across any specific downsides with the PRI handguard in your experience?
-Marco
SeriousStudent
12-04-18, 20:04
Monty, thank you very much for taking the time to visit. And I really do appreciate all the extra time you spent on the M4C group buy. I'm building up my RECCE now.
Wishing you and the Missus a safe and merry Christmas, and a prosperous 2019!
let us know if you need anything or we can be of any help!!
12.5" barrel with a tapered profile (not a LW), .750 GB journal. Please. 5/8 x 24 threads... ? : )
Monty,
Thanks for the reply. I did see that PRI had some stock available direct. I was wondering if you had come across any specific downsides with the PRI handguard in your experience?
-Marco
Well I will say the Mod 1 is a much more robust system but I get if people are wanting to clone that they go after the Mod 0 for looks. the original ones back in the day I'd say were much more of a pain to install and had other issues I have a couple set of part to build with from their newest stuff it definitely is much batter now a lot of the issue too was the old ARMS rail that went on the top.
Serious student- thank you we were glad to do it and thank you guys to all who participated we appreciate you guys and hope we can keep serving you!!
MQ105- do you mean in a 5.56?? so you want a 5.56 with 5/8-24 threads???
thank you!!
Monty
Well I will say the Mod 1 is a much more robust system but I get if people are wanting to clone that they go after the Mod 0 for looks. the original ones back in the day I'd say were much more of a pain to install and had other issues I have a couple set of part to build with from their newest stuff it definitely is much batter now a lot of the issue too was the old ARMS rail that went on the top.
Monty,
Thanks for the expert opinion! I think that pushes me back to the mod 1 style of upper.
5.56. If you have them already done in 12.5” with 1/2x28 that is good. If you would have to make a barrel, then 5/8x24 would be great.
Monty,
Thanks for the expert opinion! I think that pushes me back to the mod 1 style of upper.
Not a problem!! just operationally and real world use the Mod 1 is just a better gun no doubt.
MQ105 - I might have a 12.5in hammer forged still laying around e-mail sales@centurionarms.net and she will confirm if we do for you!! if not there are some in the works right now so it will only be a few more weeks.
Thank you!!
Monty
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