View Full Version : Sig 551/556 and HK 416/417 Assault Rifles
Killer Angel
10-10-08, 08:10
Between the Sig 556 and HK 416 Assault Rifles,what would you choose?And why?
Thanks.
It would depend on the price. I know I don't like the Sig at all. The only good thing I could say about it is it's fairly accurate. But the HK is pretty expensive isn't it?
I really wouldn't buy either, but the only reason I'd lean towards the HK is that at least some of the parts are standard to a regular AR.
You might want check this thread out Sig 556 vs HK 416 (http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/4761040931). The guy owns both, the 556 is a SBR'ed pistol. He says that the 556 shoots smoother than the 416. You can ask him more questions about the two. I have a Sig 556, and they are great for the right price. I got an optic free version for $1130, if you are LEO or military you can get a additional $100 in a mail in rebate. It is one of the cheapest gas piston rifle you can find right now. In my opinion, you have to swap out the regular handguards with 551 style handguards, they have a lot slimmer profile and make the rifle a little better balanced (It is a nose heavy rifle). I, like demigod thought the HK 416 was better, and I too believe that the HK 416 is pretty expensive. There is a 14.5 " HK 416 upper on gunbroker right now for $5900. I think that is way out of the normal price range, but I could be wrong.
I'd take the 416, sell the upper, and buy a couple LWRC rifles. ;)
Joking aside, I like the 556, but it has a couple design features that seem like incomplete thoughts...like the gun was rushed to market. For example, the magazine release is almost impossible for me to reach, and I wear size large gloves. I also don't like the right-side reciprocating charging handle. The gun has some serious potential, but needs to be massaged by some good engineers and gun guys before it's realized.
Joking aside, I like the 556, but it has a couple design features that seem like incomplete thoughts...like the gun was rushed to market. For example, the magazine release is almost impossible for me to reach, and I wear size large gloves. I also don't like the right-side reciprocating charging handle. The gun has some serious potential, but needs to be massaged by some good engineers and gun guys before it's realized.
My thoughts exactly. SIG Sauer needs to fire its 556 project managers and get some, as you say, good engineers and gun guys on board.
What it needs:
- An extended mag release
- An abmi mag release
- Extended (laterally) safety levers for easier engagement
- For Sig to ditch the current stock interface and fab the lowers to take the Swiss-pattern stock. Then Magpul (hint, hint) needs to adapt the MASADA stock to interface with the Swiss SIG 55x pattern folding mechanism
- Captive front and rear takedown pins, not the RETARDED two-screw front pushpin
- Reversible ambidextrous cocking handle
- And finally, Sig needs to drastically overhaul their quality control
This is all coming from someone who is a passionate Swiss SIG 55x afficionado. I like the 556, but not in its factory configuration. My Sig 556 is currently being turned into a 552 by Frank Hatten at Antique and Modern Arms.
Sig Sauer has a very unique rifle and has a tremendous opportunity to actually make it an outstanding rifle. Unfortunately they have yet to do so.
Hey NikB, how about Magpul starts accessorizing the 556....and quickly :)
My thoughts exactly. SIG Sauer needs to fire its 556 project managers and get some, as you say, good engineers and gun guys on board.
What it needs:
- An extended mag release
- An abmi mag release
- Extended (laterally) safety levers for easier engagement
- For Sig to ditch the current stock interface and fab the lowers to take the Swiss-pattern stock. Then Magpul (hint, hint) needs to adapt the MASADA stock to interface with the Swiss SIG 55x pattern folding mechanism
- Captive front and rear takedown pins, not the RETARDED two-screw front pushpin
- Reversible ambidextrous cocking handle
- And finally, Sig needs to drastically overhaul their quality control
This is all coming from someone who is a passionate Swiss SIG 55x afficionado. I like the 556, but not in its factory configuration. My Sig 556 is currently being turned into a 552 by Frank Hatten at Antique and Modern Arms.
Sig Sauer has a very unique rifle and has a tremendous opportunity to actually make it an outstanding rifle. Unfortunately they have yet to do so.
Hey NikB, how about Magpul starts accessorizing the 556....and quickly :)
You, sir, just read my mind. We have offered to help Sig with their stock design and interface, but they haven't expressed much interest. Their sales guys are on our side, but I think we just haven't reached the right decision makers in the company. I see incredible potential in that weapon, so hopefully Sig will come through for all our sakes!
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-11-08, 15:41
Both are excellent. The SIGs ergos are a bit off-putting to most folks. I have had both but I have sold the 556 and settled on the 416. Not because the 556 is bad, but there is just so much AR stuff available that the 556 just can't quite justify itself. I do agree with Josh on everything that SIG needs to do.
I have to agree with all of you guys. The Sig has a lot of potential, but Sig did drop the ball on a lot. I think most were looking for a replica of the 551, and Sig went the other way with it. I think it is one of those rifles that you have to shoot a little bit to see if you like it. The AR platform is a lot more versatile, there are a ton more aftermarket parts, so it is suitable for a lot more shooters.
You, sir, just read my mind. We have offered to help Sig with their stock design and interface, but they haven't expressed much interest. Their sales guys are on our side, but I think we just haven't reached the right decision makers in the company. I see incredible potential in that weapon, so hopefully Sig will come through for all our sakes!
I am glad to hear you offered SIG some help...they DESPERATELY need it. Gemtech offered SIG their folding stock adapter that enabled the use of the M4 buttstock and interfaced with the Swiss lower, but SIG declined that as well. I have one of the Gemtech adapters and am planning on attaching it to a UBR then installing it on my 552's lower.
Another area where they should have implemented some design change is the bolt release. It should have been redesigned to be like that of the XM8/G36 and your MASADA....ie within the trigger guard just behind the mag well.
I also have some ideas for the 556 upper that I've drawn up in AutoCad, but that is another conversation entirely.
A Magpul poly lower with all the appropriate design features would be THE HEAT for the 556, especially the 556 pistol registered as a SBR. I know, I know you cannot talk about potential products. Please keep encouraging Rich to improve the 556...it really needs your help.
My thoughts exactly. SIG Sauer needs to fire its 556 project managers and get some, as you say, good engineers and gun guys on board.
They could start by hiring and relocating someone from Swiss Arms in Switzerland that actually knows something about a 550 series rifle.:cool:
My thoughts exactly. SIG Sauer needs to fire its 556 project managers and get some, as you say, good engineers and gun guys on board.
What it needs:
- An extended mag release
- An abmi mag release
- Extended (laterally) safety levers for easier engagement
- For Sig to ditch the current stock interface and fab the lowers to take the Swiss-pattern stock. Then Magpul (hint, hint) needs to adapt the MASADA stock to interface with the Swiss SIG 55x pattern folding mechanism
- Captive front and rear takedown pins, not the RETARDED two-screw front pushpin
- Reversible ambidextrous cocking handle
- And finally, Sig needs to drastically overhaul their quality control
:)
This would almost require a new firearm
variablebinary
10-12-08, 00:59
Between the Sig 556 and HK 416 Assault Rifles,what would you choose?And why?
Thanks.
The 556 is a mediocre firearm. The 416 cant be had easily, if at all...
Thankfully there are other options if the AR15 doesnt float your boat.
http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/XCRtech2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~armandoc14/XCRsig.jpg
Jay Cunningham
10-12-08, 01:04
Is any SWAT team or military unit anywhere in the world running a RobArm XCR?
variablebinary
10-12-08, 01:27
Is any SWAT team or military unit anywhere in the world running a RobArm XCR?
Not as far as I know, but last I checked there isnt any SWAT team or military unit anywhere in the world running a SIG 556, or ACR or LMT piston.
Doesnt change the fact the 556 is mediocre and the 416 cant be easily had, if at all by a civilian...
Thankfully, there are alternatives
This would almost require a new firearm
Not really. The mods to the lower are very simple; there is plenty of room to accomodate them. The ambi charging handle would only require a very simple change to the stamping/forming dies.
The 556 is a mediocre firearm. The 416 cant be had easily, if at all...
Thankfully there are other options if the AR15 doesnt float your boat.
Variable, I know you are a big proponent of the XCR. I cannot and will not purchase from Robarms after their endorsement of Mitt Romney, the douchebag Governor of Massachusetts who signed into law the Mass AW ban. Nothing like supporting a man who doesn't even allow your product to be sold in his state.
The XCR has some interesting design features, but Alex Robinson's support of Mitt Romney is suspect at best and I cannot/will not support his company as such.
I have wanted an XCR for quite some time now. Everyone I know who has them, loves them but it scares me that they most of the parts are proprietary and Robarms lack of support when they move on to a new project. There are a lot of upset people with M96 rifles who cannot get parts anymore, and cannot get help from Robarms. I would hate to spend that kind of money on a rifle and Robarms moves on.
SIG Sauer needs to fire its 556 project managers
Their marketing department as well, for not stepping in and saying "that isn't what the consumer wants". The people who have bought the SIG556 would have bought it if it was a legacy rifle or if it was a product improved 551, I think they would be selling more units.
variablebinary
10-12-08, 20:51
I have wanted an XCR for quite some time now. Everyone I know who has them, loves them but it scares me that they most of the parts are proprietary and Robarms lack of support when they move on to a new project. There are a lot of upset people with M96 rifles who cannot get parts anymore, and cannot get help from Robarms. I would hate to spend that kind of money on a rifle and Robarms moves on.
You might want to double check this. There are still plenty of reports of M96's being serviced, and the M96 will go into production again next year, per Robarms.
Despite what you've read it was never abandoned, just put on hold for a period.
Not as far as I know, but last I checked there isnt any SWAT team or military unit anywhere in the world running a SIG 556, or ACR or LMT piston.
SWAT team weapon selection choices aren't much better of a benchmark than regular L.E. weapon/ammo choices anyway. This is based on conversations with the SWAT guys I know.
I guarantee you could probably find some SWAT guy out there who deploys with an Olympic Arms rifle.
You might want to double check this. There are still plenty of reports of M96's being serviced, and the M96 will go into production again next year, per Robarms.
Despite what you've read it was never abandoned, just put on hold for a period.
Well that is interesting. I assume there will be some product improvements?
SWAT team weapon selection choices aren't much better of a benchmark than regular L.E. weapon/ammo choices anyway. This is based on conversations with the SWAT guys I know.
I guarantee you could probably find some SWAT guy out there who deploys with an Olympic Arms rifle.
While this might be true, what benchmark would YOU suggest someone look to for whether a Sig 556 is truly a worthy rifle to depend on?
The 556 has been met with a collective yawn by anyone other than civilian range shooters. This is not surprising as that is exactly who Sigarms designed this rifle for. Read their website.
To me, this is an unbalanced rifle made up of a hodgepodge of ideas that don't work all that well together. It seems rushed to market too. Sure the operating system is based on the quite reliable 551 design, but this is a rifle built in New Hampshire, not Switzerland, and this is their first rifle..... and it shows.
Oh, and for those who bootstrap the argument that the 551 is a proven rifle, therefore the 556 is too, sorry, I don't buy it and as far as I can tell, there's nobody out there proving that to be true.
You might want to double check this. There are still plenty of reports of M96's being serviced, and the M96 will go into production again next year, per Robarms.
Despite what you've read it was never abandoned, just put on hold for a period.
I have an M96 and I've never needed to have it serviced. Its a fun rifle to take to the range and its certainly a good design. I've got two barrels for it too. I'll be glad to see them being made again. I do know that they've run low on certain parts - I wanted to get rid of my top rail and get their standard rear sight and was told they were out.
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