View Full Version : Shooting in Texas church
A gunman has opened fire inside a small church in Texas. Multiple casualties reported.
https://www.ksat.com/news/shooting-sutherland-springs-church-gunfire-mass-shooting-airlife
Some outlets now reporting 20 dead and 30 wounded. Lets hope this is inaccurate.
Shooter dead, children are reported as being among the dead :(
Looks like the shooter just walked in and just started shooting at everyone.
nightchief
11-05-17, 15:01
I just don't understand this...WTF is going on in our society? Not asking for an answer, just sad, appalled and angry
I'm from the "never say never" school of thought. Then there's the "It can't happen here" worldview.
My congregation, sorry to say, is the latter.
God help us all.
BuzzinSATX
11-05-17, 15:39
I know folks who liven that area, but don't know anyone who was at the church. Still don't know what the motive was...
Scary and sad...definitely sending prayers up for the victims and families...
Very sad, I just can't even comprehend this kind of evil.
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I feel terrible for those people. 27 now reported dead.
Witness says
1. Shooter isn't from the Sutherland Springs community,
2. was dressed 'in full gear'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5052163/Up-27-shot-Texas-church-gunman-opens-fire.html
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My first thought when I heard of a shooting in Texas church was that we were going to hear that members of the congregation ended it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-05-17, 16:17
How many more of these before real gun control is passed?
My heart hurts... just a little tiny country church.. much like the one I attend when I decide to go. Reports of only a 50 member congregation and half of them were gunned down. I'm not sure what we can do.
How many more of these before real gun control is passed?
My guess is we have reached a tipping point as of now.
Society is screwed.
I'm a bit surprised we don't know the identity of the shooter yet. Or did I miss it?
My guess is we have reached a tipping point as of now.
Democrats are already calling for another gun control measure.
ABC reported that the killer was a white male who recently showed off an AR15 on facebook.
Society is screwed.
I'm a bit surprised we don't know the identity of the shooter yet. Or did I miss it?
I don't think its been released yet. I did read a report that the shooter escaped via vehicle and law enforcement caught up with him but no word on him killing himself or being taken down by police. Of course early reports are almost always false. If so, that sounds more like an attack than a suicidal rampage though. Of course, after Vegas, who knows if we'll be told what happened..
Dist. Expert 26
11-05-17, 16:58
If the shooter doesn't fit the mold it'll just fade away like Vegas did. So let's hold off with the doomsday prophecies.
Also, liberals don't give a damn about white people who go to church. A lot of them will probably be happy about this.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-05-17, 17:01
My guess is we have reached a tipping point as of now.
I mean honestly, to liberals and even some middle of the road folks, gun control is only making more and more sense to them. Obviously, we know better, but we are quickly losing ground to these mass-murderers.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-05-17, 17:04
I don't remember stuff like this being so common 10 years ago. I hate to say it, and I have nothing but compassion for the families hurt by these events.... however..
I honestly believe many of these events are tied into some kind of bigger conspiracy funded by the Clintons/soros or something of the like. I have no trouble believing the far left will use blood of the innocents to further their communist agenda. The Vegas shooting for example just raises a huge BS flag for so many reasons. There are things that just don't make sense for these events to be just random acts of terror committed by single parties. I believe there is a bigger agenda tying many of these events together.
I mean honestly, to liberals and even some middle of the road folks, gun control is only making more and more sense to them. Obviously, we know better, but we are quickly losing ground to these mass-murderers.
As a veteran LEO do you think we need stakeout squads at every church and outdoor function?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-05-17, 17:06
As a veteran LEO do you think we need stakeout squads at every church and outdoor function?
No, I think people need to realize that death and destruction can visit us all. People need to take the safety of themselves and their loved ones ****ing seriously. People need to stop thinking that anyone is there to save them.
Today is the anniversary of the Ft. Hood massacre.
I mean honestly, to liberals and even some middle of the road folks, gun control is only making more and more sense to them. Obviously, we know better, but we are quickly losing ground to these mass-murderers.
Vegas and now this both happened to, for the most part, conservative, right leaning citizens. It looks like the pattern is changing in a way to get those middle of the road voters to vote the other way on gun control.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-05-17, 17:10
As a veteran LEO do you think we need stakeout squads at every church and outdoor function?
We had two liquor stores knocked off last night by the same group of armed robbers in the town adjacent to ours. I was on duty with the other four cops on my shift. We have 4-5 liquor stores in our town and calls holding on the screen. Cops, as you well know, cant be there to stop it ahead of time. Our liquor stores got some drive-bys by us when we had the time, but that was all we could spare. Protection for churches etc just isnt a reality.
No, I think people need to realize that death and destruction can visit us all. People need to take the safety of themselves and their loved ones ****ing seriously. People need to stop thinking that anyone is there to save them.
I see.
Tough sell.
Everybody thinks they are going to live forever and that their tax mo ey isn't totally wasted.
I wont even begin to speculate.
Could be a guy off his meds or something else.
Two law enforcement sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the continuing investigation, identified the gunman as Devin P. Kelley.*
Mr. Cuellar, who said he was briefed by law enforcement authorities, said the gunman came from Comal County, which is northeast of San Antonio.*
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/us/church-shooting-texas.html
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/55b817b27ff103564cacfd86e9c29779.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/caafd26c9985881eb0430d2fd13c98aa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/7dfe30c4c224cc6c005ad0387e4b71bc.jpg
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God I hate to see such loss of innocent life. That is my first and foremost thought. My next thought is that I hope he suffered excruciating agony as he died, undescribable pain. Thirdly, if there is a Hell I hope he's burning in it.
I'll save digging my heels in for later.......
Terrible tradgedy no doubt.
Let's see what else is happening in the news....missle fired into Saudi Arabia, Saudis arrested for fraud, allegedly Tony Podesta arrested, Pelosi made statement 'we shouldnt go there impeaching Trump' (PP), Brazile dumps on DNC and Clinton, Rand Paul assaulted at home by 'a Democrat', Jeff Bezos just sold $1B of stock, and Trump is out of CONUS. Oh and now Las Vegas Sherrif says 'LV shooter had money problems' after weeks of the investigation saying the contrary. And the antifa protests never materialized, and one faction of them made a statement saying 'we werent really protesting on the 4th it was a trick'. What else, it comes out Kevin Spacey had flown on the Lolita Express with Bill Clinton. The NFL started wearing camo and had commercial spots 'we support the military'. I am probably missing something, but it doesnt matter because now everyones Sunday night and Monday will be focused on this event and will forget we just had a ISIS terrorist attack in NYC last week, the LV shooting ever happened, and that the Russia collusion investigation is a Big Fat Nothingburger.
Two law enforcement sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the continuing investigation, identified the gunman as Devin P. Kelley.*
Mr. Cuellar, who said he was briefed by law enforcement authorities, said the gunman came from Comal County, which is northeast of San Antonio.*
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/us/church-shooting-texas.html
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I wonder what his M4C user name was.
I wonder what his M4C user name was.
Cute. :rolleyes:
Seriously?
Cute. :rolleyes:
Seriously?
Ah, someone asked it about the LV guy. Everyone is probably thinking it.
Supposedly he stopped because someone took a shot at him: Witness says armed neighbor caused Texas gunman to flee the scene.
Supposedly he stopped because someone took a shot at him: Witness says armed neighbor caused Texas gunman to flee the scene.Any link?
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Devin Kelley may have been antifa.
http://yournewswire.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/
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Wow, that is just a slaughter. What in the hell is going on in people's heads?
SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Texas - Every Sunday after every service for more than three years, the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, shared the word of God in a recorded video and uploaded it on its official YouTube page.
However, this Sunday will likely be the first time the church will not upload its recorded service with the possibility of video capturing the moment when a gunman -- identified Sunday evening as Devin Kelley, of New Braunfels -- opened fire on its members, killing at least 27 people and injuring 30 others.
https://media.ksat.com/photo/2017/11/05/sutherland-springs-church-look-inside_1509922463945_10907580_ver1.0_640_360.jpg
Devin Kelley may have been antifa.
http://yournewswire.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/
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Not exactly a reliable source.
Any link?
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I didn't post it as it was not working when I tried it again. Perhaps traffic crashed the server or something:
https://crimeresearch.org/2017/11/witness-texas-church-shooting-neighbor-shot-suspect-causing-leave-scene/
Isn't this the kickoff day for Antifa's putsch?
Isn't this the kickoff day for Antifa's putsch?
That was yesterday.
Also, we should bring back cruel and unusual punishment.
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It's being reported that he was dishonorably discharged from the USAF.......if so I think that bars him from legally owning a gun. If so, how did he get an AR except from some guy at a gun show or something like that. You know what that means.
Via zerohedge
Kelly was a former Air Force member who received a dishonorable discharge. He was court-martialed in May 2014. He previously held the rank of E1. Officials who've spoken anonymously to the media said there were no signs Kelly had links to terrorist groups.
It's being reported that he was dishonorably discharged from the USAF.......if so I think that bars him from legally owning a gun. If so, how did he get an AR except from some guy at a gun show or something like that. You know what that means.
Unless charges were filed, is that the case? I can't imagine being dishonorably discharged automatically results in loss of 2A Rights regardless of cause, but don't know the answer to that one.
dwhitehorne
11-05-17, 17:58
Supposedly he stopped because someone took a shot at him: Witness says armed neighbor caused Texas gunman to flee the scene.
Fox News just reported the gunman was shot by a resident with a shotgun before he fled the scene. David
Unless charges were filed, is that the case? I can't imagine being dishonorably discharged automatically results in loss of 2A Rights regardless of cause, but don't know the answer to that one.
I think it's on the 4473. A DD means you went through a general court marshal.
I was always under the I pressing a Dishonorable discharge was the same as a felony. I know it is on the 4473.
I was always under the I pressing a Dishonorable discharge was the same as a felony. I know it is on the 4473.
That's my understanding. So if all of this pans out, we got a felon in possession of a gun.
Fox News just reported the gunman was shot by a resident with a shotgun before he fled the scene. David
Maybe a bright spot to an otherwise terrible event.
I think it's on the 4473. A DD means you went through a general court marshal.
Interesting. I don't know squat about mil law.
Outlander Systems
11-05-17, 18:07
Or maybe dude was just a loser and shot up a church?
I don't remember stuff like this being so common 10 years ago. I hate to say it, and I have nothing but compassion for the families hurt by these events.... however..
I honestly believe many of these events are tied into some kind of bigger conspiracy funded by the Clintons/soros or something of the like. I have no trouble believing the far left will use blood of the innocents to further their communist agenda. The Vegas shooting for example just raises a huge BS flag for so many reasons. There are things that just don't make sense for these events to be just random acts of terror committed by single parties. I believe there is a bigger agenda tying many of these events together.
Not exactly a reliable source.Didn't post it as reliable. It may be or may not. We will see
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The_War_Wagon
11-05-17, 18:09
I tell ya', at places like churches we're going to need a couple really, really trusted guys patrolling the inside and outside of the place ready to throw down on at a nano seconds prompting to take on the Devins of the world.
My Pastor builds his own AR's, and legally carries 1911's - I think the congregation prefers HE deal with any problems... but given all the robes he wears, that might be impractical, as quick-draw is liturgically nigh IMPOSSIBLE! :eek:
Let's not repeat the name of the killer from this point on. He does not deserve it.
Latest http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/05/multiple-casualties-reported-in-texas-church-shooting/Update 5:55 p.m.:
Texas Department of Public Safety Region 6 Director Freeman Martin told reporters during a press conference that a local resident engaged the shooter with his own weapon. D K then dropped his Ruger AR-15 rifle and got in his car to leave. The resident pursued K’s vehicle until it crashed. Police found K dead inside his vehicle. It is not clear if he shot himself or if the resident shot him, Martin stated.
Ironically, was thinking about how appealing a target a church is while I was at mass today. You really can't relax anywhere these days.
My Pastor builds his own AR's, and legally carries 1911's - I think the congregation prefers HE deal with any problems... but given all the robes he wears, that might be impractical, as quick-draw is liturgically nigh IMPOSSIBLE! :eek:
Your pastor wears robes?
Official Kremlin Transmission
What are the CCW laws in churches TX? Someone walks into a crowded place with an AR and starts blasting away that handgun on you may be of no value, but no doubt we'd all prefer that slim chance vs exactly nadda. Several people with pistols can be a game changer. Any chance better than no chance, and that's a damn fact.
platoonDaddy
11-05-17, 18:27
Latest http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/05/multiple-casualties-reported-in-texas-church-shooting/Update 5:55 p.m.:
Texas Department of Public Safety Region 6 Director Freeman Martin told reporters during a press conference that a local resident engaged the shooter with his own weapon. D K then dropped his Ruger AR-15 rifle and got in his car to leave. The resident pursued K’s vehicle until it crashed. Police found K dead inside his vehicle. It is not clear if he shot himself or if the resident shot him, Martin stated.
Watched the press conference and wasn't surprised that a local engaged the shooter. Especially since residents watched the shooter get out of his vehicle, dressed all in black and prior to entering the church started shooting into the church.
I tell ya', at places like churches we're going to need a couple really, really trusted guys patrolling the inside and outside of the place ready to throw down on at a nano seconds prompting to take on the Devins of the world.
When I go, I carry.
Of course I go about half the time my family does. That's about my only alone time during the week. Good job protecting my family, huh.
Yeah, I also think he might be just a tad focused on something else also. I was thinking more like the guys are sort of like secret service agents specifically watching everything that's going on. It's being reported that the evil doer started shooting outside.
Wrong. Hired security guards are not the solution, solution is for it to become socially acceptable for law abiding citizens to be armed even in church. Even then you cannot prevent this from happening, but can limit the damage.
Murderer was reporetedly given a dishonorable discharge and court martialed in May 2014, according to CBS.
=================================================
Authorities revealed that a heroic citizen in the church “grabbed his rifle and confronted the suspect,” who was armed with a “Ruger AR assault type rifle.” The local citizen pursued the suspect, who ran off the road and crashed and was found deceased in his vehicle. “We don’t know if it was a self inflicted gunshot wound or if he was shot by our local resident who engaged him with gunfire,” authorities said. It was the largest mass shooting in Texas history.
The problem is you are sitting in the pews probably having your attention divided between what's going on around you and what's going on up front. It's not a slam, it's just the nature of being in a church for worship.
The entries to our sanctuary are on the side, there are seats behind the back entance, which is why I set in the back. In the last month I've been asked a couple times if I carry, I smile and say that I don't think the Ministry Team would approve. That way I haven't lied and maybe someone else will take it upon themselves to exercise their rights.
Thing is, our Church runs three services, I go to third service and am in Sunday school for second service. So the first hour, which is a traditional service and generally consists of the oldest members is likely unprotected.
Prayers to the killed and injured.
WTF. Society is just going to ——.
Weapons were always in churches during the middle ages in Europe, whether in Scandinavia, Germany and other Countries. At the back of the main sanctuaries were racks to hang your swords. The main tower of the church for small villages were also places where swords, muskets, etc. were stored. In Sweden, these medieval churches called that part of the tower: Vapenhus = Weapons House.
For the Western World, God & Weapons went together. Maybe that practice should be looked at again?
Edit: Reports from sources are that this murderer claimed to be a member of ANTIFA. Don't know if reliable or not.
platoonDaddy
11-05-17, 19:02
Looks like Devin Kelley’s motivation for shooting up and killing at least 26 or 27 at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas was motivated by his hatred of religion. Years ago Devin Kelley volunteered at a bible school but apparently he lost his taste for religion. He was also dishonorably discharged from the air force. According to Devin Kelley’s Facebook likes, he liked atheist things, CNN and ABC News. Here is a screengrab from Kelley’s Facebook likes. That page was scrubbed quickly by Facebook so that people couldn’t go to it and learn just what this terrorist piece of garbage was into.
http://www.pacificpundit.com/2017/11/05/devin-kelley-facebook-liked-atheist-pages-cnn/
Edit: Pics of kelly
http://www.pacificpundit.com/2017/11/05/devin-patrick-kelley-is-the-sutherland-springs-terrorist/
More info on the POS https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/11/05/texas-church-shooter-identified-devin-patrick-kelly-26-from-new-braunfels-a-suburb-of-san-antonio/
I need to find the link, but a witness said he started shooting from the outside first. In that case, it's really tough to form up a defense. I know for a fact that most wood framed churches I have attended would not stand up to a barrage from outside the walls with a 5.56.
PatrioticDisorder
11-05-17, 19:09
I believe in Texas, churches are allowed to ban guns if posted and it carries the weight of the law. Does anyone know if this church was posted?
platoonDaddy
11-05-17, 19:10
I need to find the link, but a witness said he started shooting from the outside first. In that case, it's really tough to form up a defense. I know for a fact that most wood framed churches I have attended would not stand up to a barrage from outside the walls with a 5.56.
it was posted earlier in this thread: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/05/texas-church-attacker-fled-good-guy-gun-shot/
I honestly believe many of these events are tied into some kind of bigger conspiracy funded by the Clintons/soros or something of the like.
The reason these events are so commonplace today is because of the relentless attention given these crimes by the 24 hour news cycle. These are copy cat crimes spurred by the desire to be famous/noticed. For most of these folks it is their only chance at fame or notoriety.
The reason these events are so commonplace today is because of the relentless attention given these crimes by the 24 hour news cycle. These are copy cat crimes spurred by the desire to be famous/noticed. For most of these folks it is their only chance at fame or notoriety.
How can you be so sure?
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE ARMED FORCES*
DAILY JOURNAL*
No. 14-119*
Monday, March 10, 2014*
**
PETITIONS FOR GRANT OF REVIEW DENIED*
No. 14-0387/AF.**U.S. v. Devin P. KELLEY.**CCA 38267.
User InfoQuoteReply
Loki41872
http://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/newcaaf/journal/2014Jrnl/2014Mar.htm
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How can you be so sure?
Most end in suicide.
http://www.pacificpundit.com/2017/11/05/devin-kelley-facebook-liked-atheist-pages-cnn/
Edit: Pics of kelly
http://www.pacificpundit.com/2017/11/05/devin-patrick-kelley-is-the-sutherland-springs-terrorist/
More info on the POS https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/11/05/texas-church-shooter-identified-devin-patrick-kelly-26-from-new-braunfels-a-suburb-of-san-antonio/
How can someone go from hating religion to shooting up a Church. I just don't get it.
What are the CCW laws in churches TX? Someone walks into a crowded place with an AR and starts blasting away that handgun on you may be of no value, but no doubt we'd all prefer that slim chance vs exactly nadda. Several people with pistols can be a game changer. Any chance better than no chance, and that's a damn fact.
A few years ago my State, Mississippi, enacted an Enhanced Concealed Permit. To obtain this you take the NRA basic one day course. The enhancement allows one to carry in a church, school, court house (while court is not in session) and an establishment that makes the majority of its revenue on alcohol. I carried in church before this and do more so now, when I am there. About two years ago, after an elderly lady was killed, by the guy that killed his girlfriend and was caught in Kansas, shooting my pastor started enhancing our security measures. Locked doors after service starts, “deacons” at all entrances, rovers, radios for the security team etc. I believe all houses of worship should have this going on, but most people are ostriches.
The thing that really worries me is when my wife goes on days other than Sunday. She is leadership for a faith based recovery program. Some of the people that go are low lifes and the security team isn’t there those nights.
LMT Shooter
11-05-17, 19:37
Fudged up folks who do shite like this ought to have a urinal for a tombstone, so the rest of us would know which graves to piss on.
The reason these events are so commonplace today is because of the relentless attention given these crimes by the 24 hour news cycle. These are copy cat crimes spurred by the desire to be famous/noticed. For most of these folks it is their only chance at fame or notoriety.
Add to that The statistics the news media brings with it.
“This was the biggest shooting since”...
When they mention statistics in previous shootings, it makes it a goal for the next sicko MF to aim for. No pun intended. The sicko MF today wants to outdo the sicko MF of yesterday. The media is turning it into a competition.
How can someone go from hating religion to shooting up a Church. I just don't get it.
Society will always have social misfits with mental illness. You can't understand them, you can't cure them. You just have to watch your six when around them, anticipating the point they go off the deep end. What triggers them could be something on the web, or as simple as indigestion.
folks are either craving attention and fame or have an agenda
its nuts to want that kinda fame sure but its done with intention !
so did this guy have an agenda or was he after fame ?
I do feel these folks names should never be mentioned and any agenda they have deal with if its something that can be dealt with ?
show a burnt up pile of dismembered body parts and saying this was the bad guy he will be in the sewer system soon and do this to every one of them
dead or alive when caught
Maybe the key is in the word "hating". What we hate and what we love, and the intensity of it has a lot to do with how we will act.
True I guess.
I ask because many would say I hate religion. I even say it myself sometimes. But the idea of going into a place of worship and shooting people, specially children? I can't comprehend it. Hell I can't comprehend killing an innocent anyway. Buy something like this takes it to such an extreme that it breaks my brain trying to figure it out.
My wife just saw something that said he timed it so the shooting started as the kids got back from Sunday school so he could target them first. He targeted the kids first. I am a grown ****ing man with minimal emotions and I feel like I am going to cry like a ****ing baby right now.
Evel Baldgui
11-05-17, 20:06
I attend services for my hour or two of peace, to thank G-d for my blessings, and concentrate on my prayers, unfortunately those tranquil days ended some time back. Though I have always carried at services, now i'll have to be interrupted at more random intervals,eye new people suspiciously but discreetly, change to a more 'tactical' seat and be less at peace.
buckshot1220
11-05-17, 20:08
No, I think people need to realize that death and destruction can visit us all. People need to take the safety of themselves and their loved ones ****ing seriously. People need to stop thinking that anyone is there to save them.
While people do need to take their own safety more seriously, the fact of the matter is a lot, and I mean a lot, of these incidents happen in areas where carrying a firearm is prohibited. Even my local mall is a no carry zone now. Due to that I spend as little money and time there as possible, but a handful of times each year I find my way in there needing something I can't find elsewhere, unfortunately unarmed. Do we just stop going to concerts, church, shopping etc? Doesn't sound like much of a life.
I don't have the answer to stopping these incidents. Wish I did.
Here is something that was on 4chan, I have no affiliation and am not a 4chan user. I found this through various web searches and links and am just passing it along for your review if you so desire:
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/147857637/you-ready-for-tomorrow-pol
Go to 11/04/17 (Sat) 00:43:01 No.147869196 which is about 3/4 way down the page.
Basically says this with image of masked people holding guns and some sort of black flag:
Anonymous (ID: unw6fG+T) 11/04/17(Sat)00:43:01 No.147869196▶>>147869288
File: IMG_3104.jpg (81 KB, 741x470)
81 KB
>>147857637 (OP)
Watch the news for Texas tomorrow
Something big is coming....
The_War_Wagon
11-05-17, 20:16
Your pastor wears robes?
He's Lutheran. Don't ALL Pastors wear robes?
BuzzinSATX
11-05-17, 20:25
What are the CCW laws in churches TX? Someone walks into a crowded place with an AR and starts blasting away that handgun on you may be of no value, but no doubt we'd all prefer that slim chance vs exactly nadda. Several people with pistols can be a game changer. Any chance better than no chance, and that's a damn fact.
Churches are treated like other public establishments...it is legal to carry in church unless they are clearly posted with state approved signs.
Here is something that was on 4chan, I have no affiliation and am not a 4chan user. I found this through various web searches and links and am just passing it along for your review if you so desire:
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/147857637/you-ready-for-tomorrow-pol
Go to 11/04/17 (Sat) 00:43:01 No.147869196 which is about 3/4 way down the page.
Basically says this with image of masked people holding guns and some sort of black flag:
Anonymous (ID: unw6fG+T) 11/04/17(Sat)00:43:01 No.147869196▶>>147869288
File: IMG_3104.jpg (81 KB, 741x470)
81 KB
>>147857637 (OP)
Watch the news for Texas tomorrow
Something big is coming....
Wow......
Supposedly this Johnny guy joined in the chase of the killer. Johnny did not participated in the shootout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYd2kIZxk4&feature=youtu.be
Add to that The statistics the news media brings with it.
“This was the biggest shooting since”...
When they mention statistics in previous shootings, it makes it a goal for the next sicko MF to aim for. No pun intended. The sicko MF today wants to outdo the sicko MF of yesterday. The media is turning it into a competition.
Absolutely.
Supposedly this Johnny guy joined in the chase of the killer. Johnny did not participated in the shootout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYd2kIZxk4&feature=youtu.be
I read one page that said the other guy with the rifle may have shot him in the neck, at the church. That's when he took off. Sounds like he pulled off the road because he was dying.
He's Lutheran. Don't ALL Pastors wear robes?
In my experience not very many any more, primarily the traditional mainstream congregations, and those who are closest to the practices of the Catholic Church. I would consider the Lutheran Church in this category.
Supposedly this Johnny guy joined in the chase of the killer. Johnny did not participated in the shootout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYd2kIZxk4&feature=youtu.be
Doesn't that young man just make you feel proud. Without getting into regional or political differences let me just say that there are a lot of people that will never understand what this young man just innately knows, that commitment to your community to do what's right and necessary.
I'm impressed with Johnny
I'm impressed with Johnny
What's impressive is how normal he seems. It's certainly refreshing to see a normal human interviewed on TV. Instead of the sensationalized, politicized, camera time we usually get fed.
How can you be so sure?
Because I've studied these events.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-05-17, 22:13
What's impressive is how normal he seems. It's certainly refreshing to see a normal human interviewed on TV. Instead of the sensationalized, politicized, camera time we usually get fed.
Talk about the best of humanity and the worst of humanity. What presence of mind and control to engage the bad guy. Imagine driving by and seeing a gun fight, not knowing what the heck is going in, but being able to decipher the good guy from the bad guy and then posse’ing up and pursuing. Amazing. God bless them.
According to CBS news this POS was..
”... a former U.S. Air Force member who served from 2010 to 2014. Records confirm Kelley previously served in logistics readiness in New Mexico until his discharge in 2014, Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek said in a statement.
[POS] was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts of assault on his spouse and assault on their child, Stefanek said. He received a bad conduct discharge and confinement for 12 months.”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/devin-patrick-kelley-texas-shooting-suspect-sutherland-springs-first-baptist-church-latest/
The reason these events are so commonplace today is because of the relentless attention given these crimes by the 24 hour news cycle. These are copy cat crimes spurred by the desire to be famous/noticed. For most of these folks it is their only chance at fame or notoriety.
Society has been fascinated with criminals forever. They have made movies and tv shows, written books. Today though, a lot of these people seem to be desensitized to reality. The gravity of life and death. Much less compassion and morals.
I'm in no way convinced these people are doing the Andy Warhol thing. In fact I would say the concept of fame faded off over the horizon of their lives long ago.
I think they just want to cause pain. It's the act that is important to them. Not the fame. They want someone to hurt. Their warped minds are tied to some magnified life event be it real or imagined or a mix of both and they want and need for someone to hurt. Possibly for no other reason than they might think it will make them feel better for the day.
What are the CCW laws in churches TX? Someone walks into a crowded place with an AR and starts blasting away that handgun on you may be of no value, but no doubt we'd all prefer that slim chance vs exactly nadda. Several people with pistols can be a game changer. Any chance better than no chance, and that's a damn fact.
Churches were at the onset of the CHL specifically forbidden places by law. The law was changed (no idea which update did it) to pretty much make them like any other business. If they post the proper signs they can forbid carry. Not much of a church goer so I can’t comment on how often they are posted or not.
Amazing how fast Facebook can scrub data. Did they hire Hillary as their CTO?
The guy has that ANTIFA, I’ve been in my parents basement look to him. One more prohibited person that a piece of paper didn’t stop. Go figure.
Violent, deranged individuals who are looking to engage in something like mass murder will always try and find the most vulnerable, helpless group of victims they can find. This is why they choose christmas parties, movie theaters, concerts and even places of worship.
They aren't looking for a gunfight, they are looking for a slaughter.
Society has been fascinated with criminals forever. They have made movies and tv shows, written books. Today though, a lot of these people seem to be desensitized to reality. The gravity of life and death. Much less compassion and morals.
I'm in no way convinced these people are doing the Andy Warhol thing. In fact I would say the concept of fame faded off over the horizon of their lives long ago.
I think they just want to cause pain. It's the act that is important to them. Not the fame. They want someone to hurt. Their warped minds are tied to some magnified life event be it real or imagined or a mix of both and they want and need for someone to hurt. Possibly for no other reason than they might think it will make them feel better for the day.
That is a common motivation, especially if they are dedicated to their own death in the process. They want to make as many other people feel pain as possible.
About the only thing I disagree with is the notion that we are less compassionate or moral today. Google the Bath School Massacre or Chicken Coop murders to see what people were capable of in the "good old days." Go back a couple centuries and humans get very uncivilized, even in the civilized parts of the world.
In 1945 humans probably killed more humans than in any other year in human history, simply because there were so many humans alive at the time and just enough people willing to engage in wholesale, industrial slaughter. We probably treat livestock better.
About the only thing I disagree with is the notion that we are less compassionate or moral today.
No, what I'm saying is the killers...They lack the concern over life and death so the lesser concepts of everyday morals and compassion are not even on their radar.
Not that we as a society are less compassionate and moral.
they are looking for a slaughter.
To the point that may the driving force. Who can create the best slaughter. The next will be who can do so and escape. It's like a personal goal.
That is a common motivation, especially if they are dedicated to their own death in the process. They want to make as many other people feel pain as possible.
About the only thing I disagree with is the notion that we are less compassionate or moral today. Google the Bath School Massacre or Chicken Coop murders to see what people were capable of in the "good old days." Go back a couple centuries and humans get very uncivilized, even in the civilized parts of the world.
In 1945 humans probably killed more humans than in any other year in human history, simply because there were so many humans alive at the time and just enough people willing to engage in wholesale, industrial slaughter. We probably treat livestock better.
agree
easy look at Nazis in WWII you had a decent % of a country willing to murder and a huge % OK with it and or turn a blind eye !
I think today's society is narcissism and sadly at the same time or 2nd in line is the prescription drugs that should not be administered are by doctors it's an easy here you go feel better insurance will handle it society we have created
I do not think the above is the main cause but I do think its part of the whole pic from the press wanting to be first and biggest to break the news to the idiots on Instagram posing cute selfies concerned for their grandma just so they can be in the limelight for a bit to the killers themselves using social media and knowing they will be famous instantly !!
who cares how you get ahead or fame as long as you get I they feel
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-17, 01:14
You think 'guns' are a hard issue. Trying to fix the mental sickness and lack of respect for life in modern society is orders of magnitude harder and expensive. That is why we talk in terms of mag limits and BGCs.
Gun control measures will not stop a heinous crime like this, so no point to more gun control. Seems like this guy was at least aggressive/angry. Wasn’t he kicked out of the air force for assaulting his wife and daughter? Maybe he had an argument with his spouse or she threatened to leave him/keep kid from him. “He just snapped” sounds so cliche.
Moose-Knuckle
11-06-17, 03:28
Terrible tradgedy no doubt.
Let's see what else is happening in the news....missle fired into Saudi Arabia, Saudis arrested for fraud, allegedly Tony Podesta arrested, Pelosi made statement 'we shouldnt go there impeaching Trump' (PP), Brazile dumps on DNC and Clinton, Rand Paul assaulted at home by 'a Democrat', Jeff Bezos just sold $1B of stock, and Trump is out of CONUS. Oh and now Las Vegas Sherrif says 'LV shooter had money problems' after weeks of the investigation saying the contrary. And the antifa protests never materialized, and one faction of them made a statement saying 'we werent really protesting on the 4th it was a trick'. What else, it comes out Kevin Spacey had flown on the Lolita Express with Bill Clinton. The NFL started wearing camo and had commercial spots 'we support the military'. I am probably missing something, but it doesnt matter because now everyones Sunday night and Monday will be focused on this event and will forget we just had a ISIS terrorist attack in NYC last week, the LV shooting ever happened, and that the Russia collusion investigation is a Big Fat Nothingburger.
Remember when I asked last week in the "The Beginning of Hillary's "Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day?" thread what would happen to take the attention away from this latest Clinton Crime Family scandal?
Well here we are all talking about gun control again . . . :dirol:
Oh, what a coincidence- the gunman is dead.
The guy has that ANTIFA, I’ve been in my parents basement look to him. One more prohibited person that a piece of paper didn’t stop. Go figure.
I'm expecting this to be the "he bought it from an individual at a gun show" UBC wedge case.
Whiskey_Bravo
11-06-17, 07:07
I find it interesting that his facebook page was scrubbed in less than an hour of the shooting, but the only capture of it that seems to made it out is a picture of his gun. Seems awfully convenient.
BoringGuy45
11-06-17, 07:18
The reason this problem is not going away, and in many cases getting worse, is that this country is falling deeper and deeper in love with pure wickedness. Not just run of the mill immorality or amorality. Wickedness. We can barely get mainstream America to condemn acts like this! You'll see "prayers for the victims" but rarely ever "f*** that guy!" People want to why killers do this stuff, because our society wants to believe that the killers had a good and logical reason for doing what they felt was their only way to get their message across.
These people don't kill due bullying, mental illness, access to guns, feeling the need to "send a message". Most of them kill and are totally in their "right mind", and when given the choice between good and evil, willfully chose evil. It's pure and simple. And our society loves those people because we view throwing up a middle finger and saying "f*** the entire world" as the epitome of what a man should be.
Also, people want to justify everything, up to and including mass murder, because they want literally every single act to be justifiable under any circumstance they can dream up, in case they might feel the impulse to do it one way. We have this view that the most unhealthy thing a person can do is resist their impulses. So people tell themselves that it should be okay to murder, because if THEY want to murder, it would more wrong to ignore the impulse and NOT murder!
F**k CNN.
Seriously.
I don't care who the guy was, but this morning was an EFFING joke.
He's interviewing one of the witnesses who lost friends. Before the interview, keeps talking about how "This doesn't happen in other places of the world."
And keeps pushing this woman to call for gun control. She finally says: "This can happen anywhere, but no one expected it would happen here."
And the asshole pushes her AGAIN to try and spout guncontrol.
I wrote a letter already and sent it. Futile, I am sure, but the lady is almost crying and still voicing her opinion for the Second Amendment, and the guy takes a shit on her and her feelings.
Dude, you're in TEXAS give your liberal BS elsewhere. 90% of Texans ain't having it.
Damn journalists, f**k em.
"This doesn't happen in other places of the world." Mofo, what f**kin "World" you living on. I can name two countries, today, who had more casualties due to horrible evil acts on the same day. F**k outa here with that shite.
Remember when I asked last week in the "The Beginning of Hillary's "Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day?" thread what would happen to take the attention away from this latest Clinton Crime Family scandal?
Well here we are all talking about gun control again . . . :dirol:...and I answered antifa shooting. I guessed NYC marathon, who would’ve guessed a Texas church service.
F**k CNN.
Damn journalists, f**k em.
.
They are not journalists, journalism died at least 30 years ago.
I hate when people play the "This doesnt happen anywhere else in the world" deal.
It happens like every week
Nobody reports on it. Look at South America, look at the entire continent of Africa, look at Western Europe, hell.....look at Russia. They had the Nord Ost and Beslan as well as random Mafia thuggery. Plus every day in Syria, Iraq, and now whatever is going on on Saudi Arabia
That just proves nobody on TV knows how messed up the world really is.
And that Americans are too bitchmade to accept that bad things are going to happen, gun or no gun.
He could have made a bomb or ran over everyone in the parking lot
It sucks those people died but I didmt have anything to do with it. If I could go back in time to the morning of and choke his ass out; I would. But I cannot.
So I wont be turning anything in or feeling guilty for things I did not do.
They are not journalists, journalism died at least 30 years ago.
This morning NBC-Savanah Guthrie-Uber Liberal interviews Dan Rather. --- I know, it sounds like the opener to a joke.
When asked what the problem/solution is with so called fake news. He blamed the President.
They cut to her and the look on her face..... I'm not sure if it was a "Did he just say that?" look, or a "I can't believe he was willing to do this for the team". That look when you loose a $20 bet, but are glad you did.
I posted on a link on a another forum that is heavily Liberal. It was from that Newswire site. I was then warned to beware of fake news and a link from a news junkie with a link from CBS. I informed them CBS was Dan "fake news" Rather's network.
They are not journalists, journalism died at least 30 years ago.
The press no longer functions in its intended role in this republic sadly. The press is supposed to keep the other branches of government honest, but who keeps the press honest? They claim to self monitor themselves but we know where that's gotten us.
Outlander Systems
11-06-17, 08:43
The man hailed as a hero for confronting the Texas mass shooter during his rampage is a sharpshooting plumber with no military background — who hit the gunman through a gap in his body armor, according to a report.
http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshooting-plumber-fired-shot-that-took-down-texas-church-gunman/
I remember when you could watch the news and have no idea which way a journalist leaned politically. I specifically liked this about Tim Russert, he seemed very even handed as to how he approached reporting. When he died, the inmates at NBC took over the prison.
Different topic, is an investigation of this nature always run by the FBI? It seems anymore that the findings of anything they investigate are tainted by political agendas. I would prefer to see Texas Rangers overseeing this..
Whiskey_Bravo
11-06-17, 08:53
I remember when you could watch the news and have no idea which way a journalist leaned politically. I specifically liked this about Tim Russert, he seemed very even handed as to how he approached reporting. When he died, the inmates at NBC took over the prison.
Different topic, is an investigation of this nature always run by the FBI? It seems anymore that the findings of anything they investigate are tainted by political agendas. I would prefer to see Texas Rangers overseeing this..
This. I have zero faith in the FBI now days.
Averageman
11-06-17, 09:08
Locally it's being reported that the shooter was put out of the Air Force for domestic abuse on both his wife and kid.
The wife left him and her family goes to that Church but wasn't there this Sunday.
He has applied for a carry permit in Texas but was denied. The Governor is saying he shouldn't have been able to purchase legally.
Kindof takes some of the wait out of the way toey as presented.
I tell ya', at places like churches we're going to need a couple really, really trusted guys patrolling the inside and outside of the place ready to throw down on at a nano seconds prompting to take on the Devins of the world.
I'd like to hear Grant chime in but I believe he's been involved with training members of his church as armed security for years. Was this a gun free zone? We need to protect those we love. I've religiously carried a little gun for years a 5 shot J Frame and now a 9mm Shield with Magguts springs. I'm thinking I need bigger gun. I'll probably start carrying two spare mags instead of one.
I remember when you could watch the news and have no idea which way a journalist leaned politically. I specifically liked this about Tim Russert, he seemed very even handed as to how he approached reporting. When he died, the inmates at NBC took over the prison.
Different topic, is an investigation of this nature always run by the FBI? It seems anymore that the findings of anything they investigate are tainted by political agendas. I would prefer to see Texas Rangers overseeing this..
I agree. It used to be like Joe Friday. "Just the facts."
I remember when you could watch the news and have no idea which way a journalist leaned politically. I specifically liked this about Tim Russert, he seemed very even handed as to how he approached reporting. When he died, the inmates at NBC took over the prison.
Different topic, is an investigation of this nature always run by the FBI? It seems anymore that the findings of anything they investigate are tainted by political agendas. I would prefer to see Texas Rangers overseeing this..
A good Q. Not sure why this one would be under fed jurisdiction. Is it the nature of the crime?
Gov. Abbott confirms that Texas gunman was denied gun license, shouldn’t have had a gun
http://therightscoop.com/watch-gov-abbott-confirms-that-texas-gunman-was-denied-gun-license-shouldnt-have-had-a-gun/
http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshooting-plumber-fired-shot-that-took-down-texas-church-gunman/
Buried in the article is a quote by the chasing driver that the "Sharpshooting plumber" jumped out and covered the POS with his rifle.
While I'd love for the dirtbag stopping rifle to be a righteous AR of some type, there's a part of me that hopes it's a raggedy 30/30 lever action with a tasco scope the hero owned since he was 12 and took his first deer. And a bubba quote to match: "It was just like that whitetail I shot last week where I needed a neck shot as it was behind a tree".
I think they just want to cause pain. It's the act that is important to them. Not the fame. They want someone to hurt. Their warped minds are tied to some magnified life event be it real or imagined or a mix of both and they want and need for someone to hurt. Possibly for no other reason than they might think it will make them feel better for the day.
I believe this is correct. But, an aspect of that is to show society how badly they were treated.
There have been multiple victim shootings since the advent of multi-shot firearms. In the days prior to cable TV when somebody shot up a business, or other location because of some indignity, real or imagined, it didn't get much notice outside the region, and quickly dropped from the headlines.
With the advent of cable TV and the internet, you have dozens of media figures struggling to stay relevant. These events are over-reported and have a half-life approaching that of tritium.
We have seen the numbers of these events accelerate with the increased publicity and public awareness. In looking at school and workplace shootings, I've noticed that these events often appear in clusters: you have a well-publicized event, and in the months that follow, there will be several more events, then a gap and several more.
Based on all this my conclusion is that the media has made it de rigueur for folks to express their angst in this fashion. This excludes those whose motivating is terror or other criminal activity.
JMO
I hate when people play the "This doesnt happen anywhere else in the world" deal.
It happens like every week
Nobody reports on it. Look at South America, look at the entire continent of Africa, look at Western Europe, hell.....look at Russia. They had the Nord Ost and Beslan as well as random Mafia thuggery. Plus every day in Syria, Iraq, and now whatever is going on on Saudi Arabia
That just proves nobody on TV knows how messed up the world really is.
And that Americans are too bitchmade to accept that bad things are going to happen, gun or no gun.
He could have made a bomb or ran over everyone in the parking lot
It sucks those people died but I didmt have anything to do with it. If I could go back in time to the morning of and choke his ass out; I would. But I cannot.
So I wont be turning anything in or feeling guilty for things I did not do.
Pretty much my sentiments.
Would really like to know what rifle the citizen used that he shot that POS with. If it is an AR it definitely won't fit the narrative, that's for sure.
I'm expecting this to be the "he bought it from an individual at a gun show" UBC wedge case.
Allegedly purchased at a local Academy Sports.
Because I've studied these events.
From a citizen and an employment level so have I. Deep state black ops happen. No one wants to believe it. Maybe this one isn’t a DSBO but just because the shooter fled and didn’t suicide himself doesn’t rule it out - some people will readily or reluctantly die for their beliefs. Some people are coerced to do so. Others are patsys and tricked. Psychotropic drugs and psychological manipulation can be very powerful things, and with enough stress people will do terrible things for their own ego and emotions.
Ultimately this guy probably snapped and no tin foil hat shit. But through multiple levels of separation an agenda could’ve been imposed on him because he was weak or vulnerable.
Most end in suicide.
I understand that. I was engaging 26 because of his definitive position. Just looking to dialogue out his position and reasoning.
sundance435
11-06-17, 10:36
A good Q. Not sure why this one would be under fed jurisdiction. Is it the nature of the crime?
The media often misrepresents this. I think the media has the impression that when an acronym jacket shows up, it's their show. The feds will show up for something like this, but it's not automatically under their jurisdiction, unless it's a certain enumerated offense where they can assert jurisdiction - there's a lot of politics involved, regardless. Feds will be on-site for anything that could have a terrorism angle, but they won't stick around long after if it's not. Local or state LE would have to specifically request federal assistance for them to be actively involved in something like this - even then, they might not take over control of the investigation.
It was reported on CBS this morning that he received a Bad Conduct discharge, not a DD. If this is true, I think he retains his rights.
I am not clear on TX gun law.
This is Wikipedia:
Texas has no laws regarding possession of "long-barreled firearms" or "long guns" (shotguns, rifles and similar) by persons 18 years or older with valid identification, or handguns by persons 21 years or older, without felony convictions; all existing restrictions in State law mirror Federal law.
So if you’re 18 / 21 and check No on felony you are able to purchase rifle / pistol respectively?
Discussing church carry or concealed carry I think isn’t relevant because the shooter wasn’t too concerned with the law and it was a soft target.
Read on TOS that the citizen who engaged him did so with an AR. Can anyone confirm this?
Still seeing claims of connections and support for Antifa from this POS. Will that get buried by the press?
http://yournewswire.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/
Read on TOS that the citizen who engaged him did so with an AR. Can anyone confirm this?
Can’t confirm. One site says ‘not body armor’ but LBE. And allegedly that sheriff states shooter killed self at end of chase, and may have had explosives in car along with additional firearms.
Update - via message from another M4C’er:
Good Guy Engaged with AR
I just finished watching the latest press conference and one of the LE guys says the good guy did engage shooter with his own "AR assault rifle"
Here is something that was on 4chan, I have no affiliation and am not a 4chan user. I found this through various web searches and links and am just passing it along for your review if you so desire:
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/147857637/you-ready-for-tomorrow-pol
Go to 11/04/17 (Sat) 00:43:01 No.147869196 which is about 3/4 way down the page.
Basically says this with image of masked people holding guns and some sort of black flag:
Anonymous (ID: unw6fG+T) 11/04/17(Sat)00:43:01 No.147869196▶>>147869288
File: IMG_3104.jpg (81 KB, 741x470)
81 KB
>>147857637 (OP)
Watch the news for Texas tomorrow
Something big is coming....
Still seeing claims of connections and support for Antifa from this POS. Will that get buried by the press?
http://yournewswire.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/
I see antifa used with this guy here and there....any truth to this?
That was all I could find that seemed to be antifa saying there would be an attack. Nothing recent tying shooter to the organization. There’s things on Twitter saying he was UAF (?) and that’s an antifa org however it seems it’s actually a voter record where he claimed ‘unaffiliated’.
I am not clear on TX gun law.
This is Wikipedia:
Texas has no laws regarding possession of "long-barreled firearms" or "long guns" (shotguns, rifles and similar) by persons 18 years or older with valid identification, or handguns by persons 21 years or older, without felony convictions; all existing restrictions in State law mirror Federal law.
So if you’re 18 / 21 and check No on felony you are able to purchase rifle / pistol respectively?
Discussing church carry or concealed carry I think isn’t relevant because the shooter wasn’t too concerned with the law and it was a soft target.
Tx gun laws as they pertain to the purchase and ownership of firearms is identical to federal law for the most part. To buy a gun you fill out the 4473 and the FFL runs a NICS check to see if you’re a prohibited person. If you aren’t you get the gun. If you have a valid state issued CHL you don’t have to run the NICS check.
The question that will get a very uncomfortable answer from USAF is why a seemingly violent criminal was given a BCD instead of a DD. Another question that will require an uncomfortable answer is why did the DPS deny him his CHL, but NCIS didn’t deny the sale. What disconnect at the federal level occurred??
That was all I could find that seemed to be antifa saying there would be an attack. Nothing recent tying shooter to the organization. There’s things on Twitter saying he was UAF (?) and that’s an antifa org however it seems it’s actually a voter record where he claimed ‘unaffiliated’.
It sounds like multiple good guys may have engaged the POS. At least the fact a good guy with a gun shut the shooter down is getting traction with mainstream press:
http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshooting-plumber-fired-shot-that-took-down-texas-church-gunman/
It sounds like multiple good guys may have engaged the POS. At least the fact a good guy with a gun shut the shooter down is getting traction with mainstream press:
Not that anything "good" per se can be dredged up from this tragedy but the fact that the citizen engaged him with another AR can likely be used to thwart anti-AR sentiments (maybe). Something like "Yeah, the perp used an AR but it was another AR that brought him down".
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-17, 12:11
So a domestic dispute? So the AF dropped the ball and what kind of stuff is going to come out about ongoing domestic ex-wife threats? Hard to believe that he could from nothing to mass murderer. He lost a job as a security guard and it will be interesting see how that transpired.
So a domestic dispute? So the AF dropped the ball and what kind of stuff is going to come out about ongoing domestic ex-wife threats? Hard to believe that he could from nothing to mass murderer. He lost a job as a security guard and it will be interesting see how that transpired.
The winner who shot up the Orlando club also a security guard. He also lived in the town I have a house and where the UDT-SEAL museum located. It's a good town to stay well below the radar of life if one chooses. The mosk he went to burned down shortly after.
Averageman
11-06-17, 12:23
So a domestic dispute? So the AF dropped the ball and what kind of stuff is going to come out about ongoing domestic ex-wife threats? Hard to believe that he could from nothing to mass murderer. He lost a job as a security guard and it will be interesting see how that transpired.
Just a bit of a guess.
This guy flips and goes "hands on", on the Wife and Kids. The AF has a Courts Martial and BCDs his keister.
The Wife and Kids return home and She consults Mom and Dad and then sees her Pastor. Everybody is in favor of a Divorce ( What are the odds this wasn't the first time?) And she gets one.
His life is I'm the crapper, he loses his AF career, can't get a carry licence and is essentially a Mall Cop until he fails at that (background check?).
Im guessing he went to that Church to kill her and the entire Fam Damily..
Dude was nuts, like nuttier than a squirrel turd.
You'll have a hell of a time preventing him from killing once he's set his mind to it
If it's correct that he was convicted of domestic violence in the military and received a BCD for it, then it would fall under the Lautenberg Amendment and should make him a prohibited person. Not that any sane, rational person would expect a piece of paper to keep someone who would commit mass murder, from getting a weapon they're not supposed to.
Not that anything "good" per se can be dredged up from this tragedy but the fact that the citizen engaged him with another AR can likely be used to thwart anti-AR sentiments (maybe). Something like "Yeah, the perp used an AR but it was another AR that brought him down".
It's good that lives were saved when a good guy with a gun showed up. I don't care what gun he used or how it looks, I'm just glad more didn't die.
If it's correct that he was convicted of domestic violence in the military and received a BCD for it, then it would fall under the Lautenberg Amendment and should make him a prohibited person. Not that any sane, rational person would expect a piece of paper to keep someone who would commit mass murder, from getting a weapon they're not supposed to.
I’m not too up on the UMCJ terms, but is there even such a charge or is it simple assault. He could have plead or been convicted of misdemeanor assault.
The biggest thing you’re assuming is that USAF property communicated his status to the feds, who in turn added him to the prohibited person list.
For all interested in the gear, the murderer used a Ruger AR with a $75 Bushnell TRS25 red dot (copy of a micro Aimpoint). Wonder what the good samaritan used?
I’m not too up on the UMCJ terms, but is there even such a charge or is it simple assault. He could have plead or been convicted of misdemeanor assault.
The biggest thing you’re assuming is that USAF property communicated his status to the feds, who in turn added him to the prohibited person list.
Actually I'm not assuming at all. That's why I used "If" and "should". I was working at a cop shop when the Lautenberg Amendment was enacted. It cost quite a few cops and service personnel their careers due to prior misdemeanor DV convictions. I don't think the U.S. Code distinguishes regarding jurisdictions. If it did, I can't imagine that would still fly after all these years, but I could be mistaken? :confused:
Dist. Expert 26
11-06-17, 15:43
POTUS is on video saying that this is a mental health issue, not a guns issue.
So I guess that's a plus for us.
However his language seemed to be intentionally vague, so do with that what you will.
POTUS is on video saying that this is a mental health issue, not a guns issue.
.
And he seems to be 100% right. He made that comment yesterday and before the latest barrage of mental issues that are being reported. Was POTUS briefed early on the background of the murderer before we mortals heard it? or did he take a guess?
I think he will be against any drastic gun control proposal that will be put in front of him. He spoke at the NRA convention in April. When was the last sitting president ever spoke at any gun related convention? Both of his sons walked all over the convention hall, they even visited the Wilson Combat booth for a long time. We ran into Don Jr. twice.
Tx gun laws as they pertain to the purchase and ownership of firearms is identical to federal law for the most part. To buy a gun you fill out the 4473 and the FFL runs a NICS check to see if you’re a prohibited person. If you aren’t you get the gun. If you have a valid state issued CHL you don’t have to run the NICS check.
They are nowhere near identical.
Texas has minimum regulates for sales of guns. No felons, <17 DV, and some other DQs. No background checks, licenses, etc needed. If it were not for Federal Law, a LAC could buy a gun from just about anywhere, anytime, without any ID check or forms fill out.
Another question that will require an uncomfortable answer is why did the DPS deny him his CHL, but NCIS didn’t deny the sale. What disconnect at the federal level occurred??
Texas LTC is more stringent than buying a gun. So there may not be a disconnect there. A simple DWI prohibits you from LTC, but not from gun buying.
We had two liquor stores knocked off last night by the same group of armed robbers in the town adjacent to ours. I was on duty with the other four cops on my shift. We have 4-5 liquor stores in our town and calls holding on the screen. Cops, as you well know, cant be there to stop it ahead of time. Our liquor stores got some drive-bys by us when we had the time, but that was all we could spare. Protection for churches etc just isnt a reality.
Not a knock on Police or Fire or EMS, when you really think about it just what does the taxes we pay go for?
As for gun control measures nothing short of full ban and door to door roundup of firearms would stop someone intent on killing.
Averageman
11-06-17, 16:38
I’m not too up on the UMCJ terms, but is there even such a charge or is it simple assault. He could have plead or been convicted of misdemeanor assault.
The biggest thing you’re assuming is that USAF property communicated his status to the feds, who in turn added him to the prohibited person list.
Having delt with this up close and personal a couple of times, I can assure you this is taken very very seriously in my experience.
Most of these issues that occur off post are initially responded to by the local LEO's and they are going to charge if there is even if only has a vague smell like there is a possibility of it being domestic abuse.
On post this is going to get you four MP's and it's likely someone in your chain of Command will be at the house in two hours or less.
It will be prosecuted with the seriousness of a heart attack.
I would seriously doubt that the event wasn't reported correctly as again, off post LEO's are very tight on this and the MP are dealing with a criminal assault/domestic violence on a Federal Installation charge.
That the paperwork wasn't correctly files is a possibility, but very highly unlikely. No one gets any slack in these cases.
I've seen an O-5 get hammered and hammered hard and put out over domestic violence.
For all interested in the gear, the murderer used a Ruger AR with a $75 Bushnell TRS25 red dot (copy of a micro Aimpoint). Wonder what the good samaritan used?
From what I just heard he too used an AR-15. In fact the description was that with his AR-15 he was able to aim into uncovered spots around the plate carrier.
This was from Leland Conway on local radio. He's not some off the chain type guy so I end to believe he has plenty of facts to back that up. He was saying it quite matter of factly.
Keep in mind this was in reference to the guy that was at the church and fired on him. Not the driver in the chase.
For all interested in the gear, the murderer used a Ruger AR with a $75 Bushnell TRS25 red dot (copy of a micro Aimpoint). Wonder what the good samaritan used?
Been wondering the same thing...I guess all we know is 'rifle' & do hope they give us the 411 at some point. For no other reason than a WAG deal, I would bet a six pack it was Rem 700 hunting variant only because of the volume / popularity. Also curious if it indeed hit/missed the armor. Not sure why any of it matters...just curious I reckon. I have not heard anything about it being an AR, but have to say that is gonna stick in anti's craw if indeed accurate.
They are nowhere near identical.
Texas has minimum regulates for sales of guns. No felons, <17 DV, and some other DQs. No background checks, licenses, etc needed. If it were not for Federal Law, a LAC could buy a gun from just about anywhere, anytime, without any ID check or forms fill out.
Exactly. Texas residents being part of the USA have to abide by federal firearms laws which are more stringent that TX state law, so ling as they go through an FFL which is what happened here.
Texas LTC is more stringent than buying a gun. So there may not be a disconnect there. A simple DWI prohibits you from LTC, but not from gun buying.
Thanks for clarifying. It also seems CHL looks at what kind of discharge you have. Anything but honorable is a no go.
Having delt with this up close and personal a couple of times, I can assure you this is taken very very seriously in my experience.
Most of these issues that occur off post are initially responded to by the local LEO's and they are going to charge if there is even if only has a vague smell like there is a possibility of it being domestic abuse.
On post this is going to get you four MP's and it's likely someone in your chain of Command will be at the house in two hours or less.
It will be prosecuted with the seriousness of a heart attack.
I would seriously doubt that the event wasn't reported correctly as again, off post LEO's are very tight on this and the MP are dealing with a criminal assault/domestic violence on a Federal Installation charge.
That the paperwork wasn't correctly files is a possibility, but very highly unlikely. No one gets any slack in these cases.
I've seen an O-5 get hammered and hammered hard and put out over domestic violence.
Well, that’s good and well, but still doesn’t explain why a guy drummed out of the USAF after serving 12 mo in prison for supposedly beating his wife and kid passed a NICS check. Either someone somewhere screwed the pooch or he was allowed to plead down to a charge that wouldn’t flag him on a NICS check. Which IMO is another kind of screw up.
platoonDaddy
11-06-17, 17:34
I am confused, doesn't a dishonorable discharge prevent you from purchasing a firearm?
SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Tex. — A day after a gunman massacred parishioners in a small Texas church, the Air Force admitted on Monday that it had failed to enter the man’s domestic violence court-martial into a federal database that could have blocked him from buying the rifle he used to kill 26 people.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html
I'm hearing two different situations...one was it was a misconduct discharge, not dishonor (of which I know nothing of the varying degrees in regards to offenses / egregiousness & obtaining firearms) and that the Air Force may have failed to submit the criminal records to the FBI?? Again, take it all as hearsay but wanted to pass it along.
I am confused, doesn't a dishonorable discharge prevent you from purchasing a firearm?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-shooting-church.html
Thanks for clarifying. It also seems CHL looks at what kind of discharge you have. Anything but honorable is a no go.
Correct.
(g) Notwithstanding Subsection (a)(2), a person who is at least 18 years of age but not yet 21 years of age is eligible for a license to carry a handgun if the person:
...
(2) was discharged under honorable conditions, if discharged from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard; and
so that alone rejects his LTC application. (it is in several sections, what I qouted is for those age 18-21).
Part of me hopes he used a Remington Woodsmaster in 30-06 to take Neckbeard McChurchshooter out.
I dunno why...it'd just make me feel better.
That or a 45-70 Lever gun
3 minute mark Regional Director for Texas DPS states Willeford "armed himself with an AR assault rifle and engaged the suspect". The media continues to only refer to it as a rifle...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VAjisGO9IU
Moose-Knuckle
11-06-17, 17:57
I remember when you could watch the news and have no idea which way a journalist leaned politically. I specifically liked this about Tim Russert, he seemed very even handed as to how he approached reporting. When he died, the inmates at NBC took over the prison.
Different topic, is an investigation of this nature always run by the FBI? It seems anymore that the findings of anything they investigate are tainted by political agendas. I would prefer to see Texas Rangers overseeing this..
As of the morning TXDPS's Texas Rangers are leading the investigation and have been given incident command. The FBI is assisting with technical expertise and the BATFE did their thing with the firearms and serial numbers. Evidence is being processed at Quantico. The killer's autopsy was conducted by the Travis County (Austin) ME and all the victims are at Bexar County (San Antonio) ME for autopsies.
Moose-Knuckle
11-06-17, 18:07
Can’t confirm. One site says ‘not body armor’ but LBE. And allegedly that sheriff states shooter killed self at end of chase, and may have had explosives in car along with additional firearms.
Update - via message from another M4C’er:
Good Guy Engaged with AR
I just finished watching the latest press conference and one of the LE guys says the good guy did engage shooter with his own "AR assault rifle"
I can't find the interview now, but either the Sheriff, the DPS Director, or the lead Texas Ranger in charge of the investigation said the shooter was wearing a plate carrier and had one ballistic plate in the front but did not have one in the back.
While I'd love for the dirtbag stopping rifle to be a righteous AR of some type, there's a part of me that hopes it's a raggedy 30/30 lever action with a tasco scope the hero owned since he was 12 and took his first deer. And a bubba quote to match: "It was just like that whitetail I shot last week where I needed a neck shot as it was behind a tree".
Way back in the thread...
Part of me hopes he used a Remington Woodsmaster in 30-06 to take Neckbeard McChurchshooter out.
I dunno why...it'd just make me feel better.
That or a 45-70 Lever gun
My thinking zackly... Would love to see a totally non-tacticool hunting rifle takes out the feared black rifle weilding whacko
dwhitehorne
11-06-17, 18:10
I'm hearing two different situations...one was it was a misconduct discharge, not dishonor (of which I know nothing of the varying degrees in regards to offenses / egregiousness & obtaining firearms) and that the Air Force may have failed to submit the criminal records to the FBI?? Again, take it all as hearsay but wanted to pass it along.
I have heard the shooter received a bad conduct discharge. This is one level up and not as serious as dishonorable. With a BCD you can petition in a year or two to get it changed to a general discharge. David
Moose-Knuckle
11-06-17, 18:24
Would love to see a totally non-tacticool hunting rifle takes out the feared black rifle weilding whacko
That would actually play into the hands of the opposition. They will spin it that only whackos use EBRs and all that a law abiding citizen needs for self-defense is a Fudd gun.
That would actually play into the hands of the opposition. They will spin it that only whackos use EBRs and all that a law abiding citizen needs for self-defense is a Fudd gun.
Yep, and if he bought the gun FTF, all we would be hearing is close the gun show loophole.
Part of me hopes he used a Remington Woodsmaster in 30-06 to take Neckbeard McChurchshooter out.
I dunno why...it'd just make me feel better.
That or a 45-70 Lever gun
Had he made a legit torso his with either, he'd probably not run off like a wounded rabbit. I'm betting AR. :)
BoringGuy45
11-06-17, 18:41
POTUS is on video saying that this is a mental health issue, not a guns issue.
So I guess that's a plus for us.
However his language seemed to be intentionally vague, so do with that what you will.
And he seems to be 100% right. He made that comment yesterday and before the latest barrage of mental issues that are being reported.
I have to respectfully disagree. As I alluded to before, this is no more of a mental health issue than it is a gun issue. I don't see these shooters as people who simply didn't get the help they needed in time. These are people that no amount of medication or counseling will help. Now, this doesn't mean that these shooters didn't have mental illness. But I strongly believe that the issues that psyches were trying to treat were simply comorbidities that had little to do with the personality traits that led to these people killing.
I can't find the interview now, but either the Sheriff, the DPS Director, or the lead Texas Ranger in charge of the investigation said the shooter was wearing a plate carrier and had one ballistic plate in the front but did not have one in the back.
I saw the same interview.
Wouldn't it be great if the dumb @$$ actually had the back (or even side) plate(s) and just didn't put it (them) in and that's right where Willeford shot him.
NYH1.
Not a knock on Police or Fire or EMS, when you really think about it just what does the taxes we pay go for?
As for gun control measures nothing short of full ban and door to door roundup of firearms would stop someone intent on killing.
Which would lead to it's own shit sandwich and many many more deaths (and not just gun owners who refused to comply).
3 minute mark Regional Director for Texas DPS states Willeford "armed himself with an AR assault rifle and engaged the suspect". The media continues to only refer to it as a rifle...
And there is a reason for that.
Averageman
11-06-17, 19:13
Well, that’s good and well, but still doesn’t explain why a guy drummed out of the USAF after serving 12 mo in prison for supposedly beating his wife and kid passed a NICS check. Either someone somewhere screwed the pooch or he was allowed to plead down to a charge that wouldn’t flag him on a NICS check. Which IMO is another kind of screw up.
Just watched the local news again, it very much appears that the Air Force dropped the ball on submitting the appropriate paperwork IAW the law. His purchase didn't raise a peep.
This certainly doesn't explain why our Governor said he couldn't pass the background check for a Carry Licence.
I'm sure in the next few days this will be made clear.
They just reported good guy hit pos twice, one torso, one in the leg. And POS took own life with one to the head.
Also, POS was on phone with his dad and said was hit and did not think he would make it.
Lastly, fifteen 40 round mags found on site, all empty.
That would actually play into the hands of the opposition. They will spin it that only whackos use EBRs and all that a law abiding citizen needs for self-defense is a Fudd gun.
Exactly my sentiments.
I have to respectfully disagree. As I alluded to before, this is no more of a mental health issue than it is a gun issue. I don't see these shooters as people who simply didn't get the help they needed in time. These are people that no amount of medication or counseling will help. Now, this doesn't mean that these shooters didn't have mental illness. But I strongly believe that the issues that psyches were trying to treat were simply comorbidities that had little to do with the personality traits that led to these people killing.
From all the early information coming out about him (pedo, child and animal abuse), he's just a garden variety irredeemable POS. I'm glad the neighbor shot his sorry ass, or more might have been killed before the cops put him down.
I have to respectfully disagree.
However you present it, if one finds themselves deciding to physically abuse their spouse, fracture the skull of their child, shoot up a church full of people. They are not mentally healthy. There is simply no other way to look at it. They are ****ed up in the head.
That doesn't mean they were abused as a child, got the small bowl of cheerios, or any other such life short coming. But they are mentally screwed up in a bad way. There need not be a reason why. It simply is. Doesn't mean we can fix it. Doesn't mean there is a cure.
It is absolutely and undeniably a mental choice to do the things this guy has done and all of his choices were morally and socially wrong with no rational support. That's a mental health issue. A bad one.
I have heard the shooter received a bad conduct discharge. This is one level up and not as serious as dishonorable. With a BCD you can petition in a year or two to get it changed to a general discharge. David
Shouldn't matter, misdemeanor domestic violence = fail NICS.
dwhitehorne
11-06-17, 20:01
I wonder how UCMJ violations are recorded on III. David
Would love to see a totally non-tacticool hunting rifle takes out the feared black rifle weilding whacko
I would have liked to see the neighbor use a suppressed SBR with a bump stock and a 100 round drum........ oh.... and finish what he started.
Furbyballer
11-06-17, 20:05
Here is a 30min interview with the man who shot the shooter.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8
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I have to respectfully disagree. As I alluded to before, this is no more of a mental health issue than it is a gun issue. I don't see these shooters as people who simply didn't get the help they needed in time. These are people that no amount of medication or counseling will help. Now, this doesn't mean that these shooters didn't have mental illness. But I strongly believe that the issues that psyches were trying to treat were simply comorbidities that had little to do with the personality traits that led to these people killing.
I think I will disagree with your disagreement. Mental health issue doesnt necessarily only mean treatment. It can and in some case damned well better include confinement. I am sure that any head shrinker would look into this guys history and see a very clear pattern if behavior that raises flags. Loner and outcast, medicated at youth (supposedly), violence against his wife and a child, violence against an animal, loss of friends (even the internet variety). These aint good signs. Maybe if treatment was not a viable option, then institutionalization would have been safer option than to let him roam the streets till he popped. But we aint got time for that.
Just watched the local news again, it very much appears that the Air Force dropped the ball on submitting the appropriate paperwork IAW the law. His purchase didn't raise a peep.
This certainly doesn't explain why our Governor said he couldn't pass the background check for a Carry Licence.
I'm sure in the next few days this will be made clear.
Anything but a dishonorable discharge disqualifies from a CHL. Apparently USAF didnt screw that up. Although I'm still surprised that a guy who beat his wife and cracked the skull of his own child (supposedly admitted to do so on purpose) only got 1 year and a BCD. Should have been put away for attempted murder. This doesn't happen if the there was some justice left in the various legal quagmires of this nation.
Shouldn't matter, misdemeanor domestic violence = fail NICS.
Only if someone knows that there was a conviction. As stated the convicting agency, USAF, screwed the pooch with some zeal on this one.
3 minute mark Regional Director for Texas DPS states Willeford "armed himself with an AR assault rifle and engaged the suspect". The media continues to only refer to it as a rifle...
And there is a reason for that.
Absolutely... an AR can only be used for evil, and that kind of fire power doesn't belong in the hands of civilians.
Oh my Sweet Republican Jesus.....
Must EVERYTHING be political?!
"Hey Firefly, why do you want the gun to be some deer rifle in 30-06?"
Because it just seems American and Texan. And I dont even like Texas. Just the old American Spirit of tanned men with leathery skin and steely blue eyes grabbing a rifle made of iron and wood laying down frontier justice on a scoundrel.
Maybe I seen too many Peckinpah films. Maybe The Wild Bunch is to me what American Beauty is to bicurious suburban cuck men who just hit 40.
But dammit, in the face of tragedy; old traditions of a longarm of a simple man righting wrongs can be uplifting.
He could have used a freaking HK MR762 or SR25 for all I care.
Damn eggshells and damn the narrative.
Just let me have my cowboy righting the wrongs.
Absolutely... an AR can only be used for evil, and that kind of fire power doesn't belong in the hands of civilians.
In the 1994 miniseries "The Stand" (Stephen King, of course), the bad guys had automatic weapons while the good guys had Fudd guns. I'm sure that was on purpose.
Crowder interviews Willeford.. If you have the time to view this, it's good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8
MountainRaven
11-06-17, 21:35
I would have liked to see the neighbor use a suppressed SBR with a bump stock and a 100 round drum........ oh.... and finish what he started.
Bump-braced pistol with a 100-round drum.
SeriousStudent
11-06-17, 21:50
In the 1994 miniseries "The Stand" (Stephen King, of course), the bad guys had automatic weapons while the good guys had Fudd guns. I'm sure that was on purpose.
Actually, I recall a scene where Stu Redman (Gary Sinese's character) was standing watch outside a building with an M16.
But that was just a single scene over 20 years ago. And Stephen King is pretty wacky these days.
Crowder interviews Willeford..
I appreciate what that guy did but after trying to listen to that interview, the possibility exists that the murderer shot himself simply because that guy started talking to him.
I had to skip around and turn it into a a less painful 3 minutes. Man, that's hard on the nerves to listen to him explain things.
He did good though. Closed in on him to 20 yards with a "handfull" of bullets.
Makes you wonder about people. AR with an Eotech in a safe and no loaded mags ... yet he still got the job done.... strange.
Actually, I recall a scene where Stu Redman (Gary Sinese's character) was standing watch outside a building with an M16.
But that was just a single scene over 20 years ago. And Stephen King is pretty wacky these days.I stand corrected.
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Makes you wonder about people. AR with an Eotech in a safe and no loaded mags ... yet he still got the job done.... strange.
Not everyone with an AR is actually waiting on the zombie apocalypse. Plenty of people think just "owning a gun" is enough, they might have two magazines and a couple boxes of ammo.
The fact that he wasn't a SHTF/prepper type makes him more impressive. Sounds like shit went sideways and he stepped up even though he might have no real training or preparation. I don't know if he ended things or not, but he went out there and that is more than most people are willing to do.
It's scary to wade into something you don't fully understand, uncertain of who is "definitely the bad guy" and "am I doing the right thing" but you go anyway because something feels wrong and people might need help and you feel somehow obligated to intervene.
Not everyone with an AR is actually waiting on the zombie apocalypse. Plenty of people think just "owning a gun" is enough, they might have two magazines and a couple boxes of ammo.
The fact that he wasn't a SHTF/prepper type makes him more impressive. Sounds like shit went sideways and he stepped up even though he might have no real training or preparation. I don't know if he ended things or not, but he went out there and that is more than most people are willing to do.
It's scary to wade into something you don't fully understand, uncertain of who is "definitely the bad guy" and "am I doing the right thing" but you go anyway because something feels wrong and people might need help and you feel somehow obligated to intervene.
Yea. What the guy credits God for I credit him for being "ready for the game" mentally. It's kinda odd to have the right mindset, reaction, and a rifle...but have zero loaded mags. I understand not every rifle owner feels the need to have 50 loaded mags (Not that there's anything wrong with that ;) ) but even two loaded 20 or 30 rnd mags would have been a huge confidence and capability booster here.
Yea. What the guy credits God for I credit him for being "ready for the game" mentally. It's kinda odd to have the right mindset, reaction, and a rifle...but have zero loaded mags. I understand not every rifle owner feels the need to have 50 loaded mags (Not that there's anything wrong with that ;) ) but even two loaded 20 or 30 rnd mags would have been a huge confidence and capability booster here.
I know some tough MF'ers that have the right mind set and would probably kill you with a frying pan if they had to. They also don't carry concealed and their guns are locked up tight. I also know plenty of guys that carry every day and say they're prepared.. but they'd probably piss their pants if shit went sideways.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-17, 01:18
I appreciate what that guy did but after trying to listen to that interview, the possibility exists that the murderer shot himself simply because that guy started talking to him.
I had to skip around and turn it into a a less painful 3 minutes. Man, that's hard on the nerves to listen to him explain things.
He did good though. Closed in on him to 20 yards with a "handfull" of bullets.
Makes you wonder about people. AR with an Eotech in a safe and no loaded mags ... yet he still got the job done.... strange.
Dude didn't even have shoes on....
I don't mind the details, his crappy internet connection bugged me more.
Not bad for a wannab Santa Claus, barefoot- literally going toe-toe inside of 20 yards and has the presence of mind to aim between the plates to get effective hits.
BZ
He has only two rounds left and he knows the guy is tacted out and still has guns while he waits for the police to arrive. So he thinks the the first cop on scene is telling him to drop the gun and move, and when he does, the cop says 'Not you" and gets back on the gun.
platoonDaddy
11-07-17, 04:53
So all the “news” from liberals and the media is how bad the NRA is after the Texas church shooting. Stephen Willeford one of many heroes, who shot the militant liberal atheist as he tried to get away was an NRA certified instruction from 2002-2004.
Absolutely... an AR can only be used for evil, and that kind of fire power doesn't belong in the hands of civilians.
CBS Nightly news completed a detailed report of the shooting from start to finish. I found it odd too that the fact that the neighbor whom intervined was not identified as a self-defense shooter whom confronted the cowardly murderer with an AR-15. No reference to the fact that the same rifle used in the crime was also used to stop the rampage as well.
The State Attorney General of Texas gave an interview with NPR yesterday and did a great job defending the 2nd Amendment, the importance of being prepared, self-defense, and refuting the typical anti-gun talking points.
It seems to escape the main stream media that disarming Law abiding citizens, or reducing the effectiveness of the weapons available for defending ones-self, family, and others is not the solution. Murder is illegal yet it occurs on a daily basis. The only fact that seems to escape the liberal media is the misheld conception that society's norms, laws, and government will keep you safe.
I would love to hear someone in the National media, or government acknowledge the fact that the criminal justice system, laws, gun regulations, nor law enforcement cannot keep you from harm or safe. The responsibility of self-defense or protecting ones-self, and family is an individuals job. That leads into the right of self-defense which is difficult when there are many places in our country which prohibit or outlaw carrying a firearm for self-defense, or even owning one. Not to mention the "Gun Free" zones.
The Police and Federal Law Enforcement do their best to protect society, but there are simply not enough resources to effectively prevent these types of incidents from occurring.
I think Israel got it right when they finally decided to make arming those whom where in a position and harbored the desire to protect others with a weapon. If enough of these deranged gunmen here are confronted and shot down maybe this trend of mass shootings will stop.
Lastly, the media fails to recognize that their incessant news coverage of the events, and particularly of the assailant/s is contributing to these shootings. As my Dad said, "monkey see, monkey do."
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-17, 07:59
What F'ing cowards the MSM is:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/health/texas-gun-laws-devin-kelley-court-martial-trnd/index.html
A Ruger AR-556 rifle was found in front of the church where Kelley dropped it when a local resident rushed him.
Rushed him? A resident? If there was any 'rushing' (as if he is trying to join a fraternity) it was the 5.56 bullets from the local residents that 'rushed' him at 2800fps.'
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/11/07/texas-church-shooting-thoughts-and-prayers-don-lemon-opening-ctn.cnn
And the Don Lemon pointing out that thoughts and prayers didn't stop this gunman, says he understands and respects the 2A because he knows people that hunt. (The Progressive version of "I have black friends at work"). He talks about how we can stop these attacks by looking at people with arsenals and body armour.
Oddly, he never mentions how this shooter was actually stopped.
On further Fake News,
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/06/media/jimmy-fallon-tonight-show-mother-death/index.html
THe Article headline is about Fallon taking the week off because of the death of his mom, but the video in the page is his monologue about Charlottesville and Trump.
I'm glad the first cop on scene had enough sense to realize that this guy wasn't the church shooter. And not only that but basically told him to get back to his rifle! In a situation like that it often seems that the mentality is has gun, no uniform, not a LEO, = PROBABLY bad guy.
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I would love to hear someone in the National media, or government acknowledge the fact that the criminal justice system, laws, gun regulations, nor law enforcement cannot keep you from harm or safe.
Trump pretty much said that when hit (inappropriately) with a question on "extreme vetting for gun purchases" at a very large press conference with S Korea.
I have to say, his answer was solid. Pointed out that if the law was what she was proposing it would not have stopped the Texas shooting, and in fact might have made it where the hero who stopped the shooter did not have a weapons to do so. And it would have been far more dead.
Then wrapped up by pointing out that Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation, yet the highest violence.
Say whatever you want about his style & decorum... I don't think we've ever had a president in the modern era that has backed the Second Amendment as much as what he's done so far.
Could that change? I guess, but I've not seen him waiver yet. Recognizing that Congress is who has to make laws, the pres can just set tone and some interpretation of policy. I'm not sure he could have done more than he has.
But just the statements like he made in S Korea is far more then I've seen from previous Presidents going back to Ford/Carter years.
I'm glad the first cop on scene had enough sense to realize that this guy wasn't the church shooter. And not only that but basically told him to get back to his rifle! In a situation like that it often seems that the mentality is has gun, no uniform, not a LEO, = PROBABLY bad guy.
Things are different in rural Texas. I know and have shot with a few of the cops in my small town. I have the chief's cell phone number in my phone since I work security at my church. He knows our security plans for various events and says "if anything happens dial 911 to get officers en-route, then call me directly".
I'm glad the first cop on scene had enough sense to realize that this guy wasn't the church shooter. And not only that but basically told him to get back to his rifle! In a situation like that it often seems that the mentality is has gun, no uniform, not a LEO, = PROBABLY bad guy.
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I was thinking about that. It's a really good thing this guy was dressed in "battle gear" as they call it, and a mask.
1. The neighbor -thought- he was going to confront masked guy with rifle. But it was masked guy with pistol.
2. Had the bad guy been wearing normal clothes, when the cops showed up the good guy would have looked like the bad with AR... and the bad with pistol would have looked like typical citizen with CCW weapon. All the reports were guy with rifle shooting up church.
In that confusing state a single leo could easily get shot and/or shoot the wrong guy.
Good commo between civilian first responders and LEOs played a crucial part in ending the rampage.
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To the defense of the two good samaritans, the one driving (Johnny) was in communication with the police dispatcher, they (dispatcher/police) probably got the description of the "chasers" during that time. And we're also talking about small town Texas, NOT Chicago, NYC or LA.
Say whatever you want about his style & decorum...
Hell... for me, his style and decorum are his MOST redeeming quality. You're more likely to get an honest answer from a guy who speaks off the cuff and shoots from the hip than the guy who chooses his words carefully in order to please a consensus. It may not be the answer you want or agree with, but... well, its probably HIS answer.
Crowder interviews Willeford.. If you have the time to view this, it's good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8
When is his Ellen interview. I’d really like to see that.
When is his Ellen interview. I’d really like to see that.I almost spit out my drink. I'd like to see that, too. Him and Johnnie Langendorff.
There were interviewing one senior citizen who had been shot four times in the legs... Dirtbag killed the lady sitting next to her, and was going around shooting people again in the torso that were still alive.
Apparently dirtbag walked up to her pew and was about to shoot her in the chest when shots started coming from a different direction and the guy turned and ran.
Said she would be dead today if the neighbor had not shown up and intervened.
I just cannot imagine the mindset of someone who would walk up to old women and children in church, stare them in the eye, and shoot them dead.
I am very glad that citizens stepped in and did the right thing. And I don't fault the guy for being rattled and cancelling interviews. He sent a relative to one interview, saying that he just did not want to talk about it anymore.
...I just cannot imagine the mindset of someone who would walk up to old women and children in church, stare them in the eye, and shoot them dead...
Nothing but absolute pure evil.
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What F'ing cowards the MSM is:
After describing how he believed there were many liars in politics and business......
"I'm not about to march around the street with a sign in my hand. That doesn't do anything. But you can remind people that something's wrong, because the tendency today is to just gloss over it you know. The desire for escapist activities is really at quite a peak now and media likes to accommodate that desire. The more you can escape from how horrible things really are the less it's going to bother you and the worse things get." Frank Zappa October 26th, 1981 -- to CNN reporter Sandi Freeman. She went to break after that comment.
I've heard Frank ran CNN 24/7 watching the "fake news" being reported.
Frank did not like Reagan. He had just called him a liar before that comment. I wonder what he would think of Trump? They kinda seem to be saying the same thing.
But CNN and Don Lemon? What do you expect? You should watch an episode of To the Contrary with Bonnie Erbe. Watch it on an old TV though. You will probably throw a brick at it.
I almost spit out my drink. I'd like to see that, too. Him and Johnnie Langendorff.
LOL, yeah Ellen could buy Johnny a new truck. One that goes more than 95MPH. That cracked me up in the one interview when the reporter asked if it was a high speed chase. He said... No we were going about 95 and weaving through traffic to catch up to him.
Is it possible to sue the Air Force? Because I bet there’s a bunch of people that would like to.
Air Force Error Allowed Texas Gunman to Buy Weapons
From "Air Force Error Allowed Texas Gunman to Buy Weapons"
New York Times (11/07/17) Montgomery, David; Oppel, Richard; Delreal, Jose
The U.S. Air Force on Monday reported that it had failed to enter the domestic violence court-martial of the gunman who killed 26 people in a Texas church into a federal database that could have blocked him from buying the rifle he used in the assault. Under federal law, the conviction of the gunman, Devin Kelley, for domestic assault on his wife and toddler stepson — he had cracked the child’s skull — should have stopped him from legally purchasing the military-style rifle and three other guns he acquired in the last four years. "The Air Force has launched a review of how the service handled the criminal records of former Airman Devin Kelley following his 2012 domestic violence conviction," the Air Force said in a statement. The Air Force also said it was looking into whether other convictions had been improperly left unreported to the federal database for firearms background checks. Law enforcement officials said Kelley may have been driven by anger toward his estranged wife's family. The mother of Kelley's most recent wife was a member of the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs. "The suspect’s mother-in-law attended this church,” Freeman Martin, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said Monday. “We know that he had made threatening texts," he added, declining to elaborate.
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See....I saw the interview and this guy is going to have problems. Not legal problems but real problems.
He used an AR with an EOtech, sensible set up. Had some NRA instructor training (anyone who has done it will tell you it isnt exactly Cooper-era Gunsite)
But this shooting JUST happened and he did the Crowder Interview and the other interview because he knew people connected to him. Crowder tried to be forthcoming but still put his spin on it which wasnt healthy.
He was in breakdown and visibly reliving the event. He has not had enough sleep cycles and the familiarity of the congregation is certainly affecting him.
He went into an active fight with one mag. The shooter had full kit of unknown quality and additional weapons.
He does not want an attaboy. This is going to mess with him HARD when the shoe drops. Lots of second guessing and cursing himself.
News people camped out on his yard in his personal space is adding to the fresh psychological trauma. He is an older person. I dont care what you people say.
When you are brought up a certain way to respect human life and the long day comes when you gotta take it and totally throw out everything your mom, preacher, persons of authority, et al have told you out the window and kill another human; that messes with you.
Shit. Even criminals will eventually confess just because it weighs on them (and take a deal). Statistically, murderers have a very low recidivism rate. Only a minority are hardened.
The point is, from this man's vantage. he's being punished for answering the call to arms.
Everything politicized. Every bit of his life "fact checked", and shit they might even look up his grades from high school.
It's like how they used to do rape investigations' "Oh yeah girlie? Then why were you out drinking and wearing a miniskirt if you didnt want it?"
Barbarism. Uncouth barbarism.
He was an ordinary man placed in an unfortunate scenario.
He needs neither adulation nor admonishment. He goddamn sure doesn't need a MMQB.
He needs space
The Plumber interviewed on Crowder. https://youtu.be/B4HEchh0XD8
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Santa is The Man who put down the Texas POS Shooter interviewed on Crowder. https://youtu.be/B4HEchh0XD8
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Is it possible to sue the Air Force? Because I bet there’s a bunch of people that would like to.
Not really, you'd have to get permission from the government to do it. The USAF isn't the only branch to f^ck this up. Some LE agencies don't report that info either.
Firefly, I can't figure out why the guy who shot the PODS is doing interviews unless the money is really damn good. He should be holed up at home, TV off and a shrink on speed dial. As we both know, this incident is going to screw him up for the rest of his life. Hopefully he doesn't end it prematurely.
Rule 1: Never talk to the media.
Moose-Knuckle
11-07-17, 12:08
What F'ing cowards the MSM is:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/health/texas-gun-laws-devin-kelley-court-martial-trnd/index.html
Rushed him? A resident? If there was any 'rushing' (as if he is trying to join a fraternity) it was the 5.56 bullets from the local residents that 'rushed' him at 2800fps.'
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/11/07/texas-church-shooting-thoughts-and-prayers-don-lemon-opening-ctn.cnn
And the Don Lemon pointing out that thoughts and prayers didn't stop this gunman, says he understands and respects the 2A because he knows people that hunt. (The Progressive version of "I have black friends at work"). He talks about how we can stop these attacks by looking at people with arsenals and body armour.
Oddly, he never mentions how this shooter was actually stopped.
On further Fake News,
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/06/media/jimmy-fallon-tonight-show-mother-death/index.html
THe Article headline is about Fallon taking the week off because of the death of his mom, but the video in the page is his monologue about Charlottesville and Trump.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4548/24374963388_935cc0028f_b.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
11-07-17, 12:36
It's being reported now that a local business to the shooting has donated 26 caskets for the victim's and the AG office has allotted $6500 per victim to cover funeral expenses via the state's Compensation to Victims of Crime Fund. Same report stated that some local funeral homes are donating their services to the victims families.
Not really, you'd have to get permission from the government to do it. The USAF isn't the only branch to f^ck this up. Some LE agencies don't report that info either.
Firefly, I can't figure out why the guy who shot the PODS is doing interviews unless the money is really damn good. He should be holed up at home, TV off and a shrink on speed dial. As we both know, this incident is going to screw him up for the rest of his life. Hopefully he doesn't end it prematurely.
Rule 1: Never talk to the media.
YEP. I think his daughter set up the Crowder bit and the other was with a reporter who knew him since childhood.
On record and on tape is not the place to let it all out.
This predatory, political news system of constant updates lacks decorum.
Its pretty sad
I almost spit out my drink. I'd like to see that, too. Him and Johnnie Langendorff.
Nope. They need to be invited to throw back some shots at the Whitehouse, Surely President Trump can acquire some smooth single malt.
sundance435
11-07-17, 13:07
Is it possible to sue the Air Force?
Nope, sovereign immunity (different concept than the folks claiming they don't have to pay taxes). It is also well-established doctrine that the federal, state, and local governments themselves owe you no actual duty as far as anything they may legislate or actions they take - literally, the rules they make do not apply to a collective "body" of government. No duty = no liability. There's a limited exception for going after individuals acting under the color of office, but that's pretty narrow.
Oh my Sweet Republican Jesus.....
Must EVERYTHING be political?!
"Hey Firefly, why do you want the gun to be some deer rifle in 30-06?"
Because it just seems American and Texan. And I dont even like Texas. Just the old American Spirit of tanned men with leathery skin and steely blue eyes grabbing a rifle made of iron and wood laying down frontier justice on a scoundrel.
Maybe I seen too many Peckinpah films. Maybe The Wild Bunch is to me what American Beauty is to bicurious suburban cuck men who just hit 40.
But dammit, in the face of tragedy; old traditions of a longarm of a simple man righting wrongs can be uplifting.
He could have used a freaking HK MR762 or SR25 for all I care.
Damn eggshells and damn the narrative.
Just let me have my cowboy righting the wrongs.
It's even better it was a God fearing, barefoot, Harley riding Santa Claus with only a partially loaded AR magazine and Eotech RDS.
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Clint Smith posted this video about magazines on youtube only 3 days before Texas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3Jm8HbHKU
YEP. I think his daughter set up the Crowder bit and the other was with a reporter who knew him since childhood.
On record and on tape is not the place to let it all out.
This predatory, political news system of constant updates lacks decorum.
Its pretty sad
Yes, his daughter set it up. She's in the Crowder Mug Club. Crowder handled it well. I also thought it was odd he didn't have any loaded mags in the safe.
Not really, you'd have to get permission from the government to do it. The USAF isn't the only branch to f^ck this up. Some LE agencies don't report that info either.
Firefly, I can't figure out why the guy who shot the PODS is doing interviews unless the money is really damn good. He should be holed up at home, TV off and a shrink on speed dial. As we both know, this incident is going to screw him up for the rest of his life. Hopefully he doesn't end it prematurely.
Rule 1: Never talk to the media.
He did two interviews. One with a kid who was a former shooting student. The man is not was an NBA instructor and one with Crowder. His daughter is a fan of Crowders. It's a good interview. I think his hope was to feed the beast and get it over with. He said the media has been harrasing him and won't leave his yard.
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It's even better it was a God fearing, barefoot, Harley riding Santa Claus with only a partially loaded AR magazine and Eotech RDS.
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This is true in totality.
Some folks wont go to the Mall without an RMR G19, 4 mags, and zipties. He ran out just on the fly against a dude kitted up.
But per the Crowder interview, he said he had been an NRA instructor. But had not actively instructed for a while (as in years if not a decade or so)
Even I been through NRA instructor and it's really not hard. Its mostly 4 Rules, load and unload, sight correction, shoot target at close range, understanding safe transport and storage.
It isn't exactly a Pat Mcnamara course.
But you still have to exhibit fundamentals to pass.
But lessons learned. Having at least a few topped off mags near your safely stored rifle makes life easier if stuff goes bad.
Having Crocs or whatever soled Ho Chi Minh slippers they sell at Wal Mart near your bed or front door likewise not a bad idea.
In every event a lesson learned.
This is true in totality.
Some folks wont go to the Mall without an RMR G19, 4 mags, and zipties. He ran out just on the fly against a dude kitted up.
But per the Crowder interview, he said he had been an NRA instructor. But had not actively instructed for a while (as in years if not a decade or so)
Even I been through NRA instructor and it's really not hard. Its mostly 4 Rules, load and unload, sight correction, shoot target at close range, understanding safe transport and storage.
It isn't exactly a Pat Mcnamara course.
But you still have to exhibit fundamentals to pass.
But lessons learned. Having at least a few topped off mags near your safely stored rifle makes life easier if stuff goes bad.
Having Crocs or whatever soled Ho Chi Minh slippers they sell at Wal Mart near your bed or front door likewise not a bad idea.
In every event a lesson learned.
I agree. I was thinking he actually followed the store your ammo and guns separate rule! Either way he has a huge set of brass balls! I'm freaking Impressed. I bet he has a few loaded AR mags now. Hopefully he has a spare AR too.
An AR manufacturer and Eotech should pair up and gift him a new weapon. I love how two strangers worked together. Did he top off his mag when he realized he had only two rounds in his gun? He might. It have had any more rounds on him. He's got ENORMOUSLY HUGE BALLS if he knew he only had two rounds while he covered that POS after the crash.
I have three bandoliers with 4 AR 30's and 2 G22 mags. One is with the SBR locked up in my bedroom that gun has a 20 in it and a 30 in a paddle mag holder too. One is with an SBR in my safe. The third is for my work gun. When I took a class recently I just used my pants pockets for spare AR mags. I have flip flops by the front and back doors. I bet he did too. I don't think he would have stopped to out them on.
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*Official* he even beat up a dog in 2014. Now I really hate him.
“In addition to abuse of his spouse and stepson, Kelley had been arrested in August 2014 on an animal cruelty charge in El Paso County, Colorado, after a witness said he had punched a dog, grabbed it by the neck and dragged the animal.”
I agree. I was thinking he actually followed the store your ammo and guns separate rule! Either way he has a huge set of brass balls! I'm freaking Impressed. I bet he has a few loaded AR mags now. Hopefully he has a spare AR too.
An AR manufacturer and Eotech should pair up and gift him a new weapon. I love how two strangers worked together. Did he top off his mag when he realized he had only two rounds in his gun? He might. It have had any more rounds on him. He's got ENORMOUSLY HUGE BALLS if he knew he only had two rounds while he covered that POS after the crash.
I have three bandoliers with 4 AR 30's and 2 G22 mags. One is with the SBR locked up in my bedroom that gun has a 20 in it and a 30 in a paddle mag holder too. One is with an SBR in my safe. The third is for my work gun. When I took a class recently I just used my pants pockets for spare AR mags. I have flip flops by the front and back doors. I bet he did too. I don't think he would have stopped to out them on.
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Watch the video in post #227.
It's good.
sundance435
11-07-17, 16:04
*Official* he even beat up a dog in 2014. Now I really hate him.
“In addition to abuse of his spouse and stepson, Kelley had been arrested in August 2014 on an animal cruelty charge in El Paso County, Colorado, after a witness said he had punched a dog, grabbed it by the neck and dragged the animal.”
Men who hit women tend to get off on hitting any weaker creature. Animal cruelty is not just a predictor for serial killers - I've never encountered anyone who beat women or animals that wasn't a depraved POS.
Clint Smith posted this video about magazines on youtube only 3 days before Texas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3Jm8HbHKU
Clint is awesome. He also talks about the way things really happen. He is all about common sense. He has a shotgun video where he asks if you had a person coming at you with a knife and you could shoot him once would you rather use a pistol or shotgun?
Found it.
https://youtu.be/dbqe7idEcLM
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Just watched a segment on Fox that claims this BOZO was in a mental institution in NM in 2012 from where he escaped (probably checked himself out). I’d like to see the final write up on that and see if in addition to USAF NM screwed the pooch and didn’t report him. Per some other claims he was also sneaking guns onto base and threatened USAF staff. More and more government screw ups getting decent folks killed.
But hey we need more government. And if you don’t think so you’re a Nazi.
Watch the video in post #227.
It's good.
Sam I just watched it again. I saw it a few weeks ago. Ive been watching kits ir Clints youtube videos. He is awesome.
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Just watched a segment on Fox that claims this BOZO was in a mental institution in NM in 2012 from where he escaped (probably checked himself out). I’d like to see the final write up on that and see if in addition to USAF NM screwed the pooch and didn’t report him. Per some other claims he was also sneaking guns onto base and threatened USAF staff. More and more government screw ups getting decent folks killed.
But hey we need more government. And if you don’t think so you’re a Nazi.
And guess where a large % of the blame appears to fall? Per usual, an agenda exists and it's more about getting guns banned than actually reducing crimes like this and others which don't require infringing on citizens Rights:
The federal background check system is a mess; why won't Democrats and gun-control advocates press to fix it?
"In 2010, the last year the Bureau of Justice Statistics released a full annual report on the operation NICS system (the Obama administration stopped releasing annual reports after that), there were 72,659 denials, but only 44 federal prosecutions and just 13 convictions."
Cont:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/federal-background-check-system-mess-article-1.3617217
Moose-Knuckle
11-07-17, 18:31
Clint Smith posted this video about magazines on youtube only 3 days before Texas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3Jm8HbHKU
Great video, I really enjoy his commentaries.
I'm not going to second guess the man who ran out of the comfort and safety of his own home to engage, close with, and neutralize the 02 thief murdering his neighbors and friends, IMHO he is a great American and a great Texan. But I hope one of the many lessons learned from this horrible incident is for gun owners to keep loaded mags at the ready. Like Clint said, no not 500 but several at the least.
Next to my go-to long arm in my primary safe I keep a PMAG 40 loaded with 64grn bonded goodies. Next to that is BFG Ten Speed 6 Pack outfitted with USGIs loaded with M855 "just in case".
It's human nature to not prepare for something that has never happened to you or anyone that you know. Thankfully I've always been a little ahead of the game as I learn from those who have had things happen to them. I've seen members here on M4C of all places throw shade to fellow gun owners for being prepared in relation to keeping a gun in close proximity to themselves and at least one reload. The whole "you're paranoid" schtick.
Docsherm's signature line rings true on this matter, I always keep it in mind.
Great video, I really enjoy his commentaries.
I'm not going to second guess the man who ran out of the comfort and safety of his own home to engage, close with, and neutralize the 02 thief murdering his neighbors and friends, IMHO he is a great American and a great Texan. But I hope one of the many lessons learned from this horrible incident is for gun owners to keep loaded mags at the ready. Like Clint said, no not 500 but several at the least.
Next to my go-to long arm in my primary safe I keep a PMAG 40 loaded with 64grn bonded goodies. Next to that is BFG Ten Speed 6 Pack outfitted with USGIs loaded with M855 "just in case".
It's human nature to not prepare for something that has never happened to you or anyone that you know. Thankfully I've always been a little ahead of the game as I learn from those who have had things happen to them. I've seen members here on M4C of all places throw shade to fellow gun owners for being prepared in relation to keeping a gun in close proximity to themselves and at least one reload. The whole "you're paranoid" schtick.
Docsherm's signature line rings true on this matter, I always keep it in mind.
Yeah Clint gets it. He's also funny as hell.
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I don't think he needs second guessed at all. He got the job done and saved lives. He needs to be left alone too. If the press is camping out in his yard, then LEO's need to run their sorry asses off. I have less than zero tolerance for their shit and wouldn't hesitate to roust them. Like it or not, he's a hero. That doesn't mean people need to fawn all over him and praise the ground he walks on. Respect that he saddled up, appreciate his sacrifice and tell people to leave him the hell alone. Done.
Averageman
11-07-17, 21:23
Interesting article, perhaps the Air Force aren't the only ones who "dropped the ball".
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/07/texas-church-killer-escaped-mental-hospital-2012-says-report/
An incident report obtained by KPRC NBC2 in Houston from the El Paso Police Department details an event that occurred at a bus station on June 7, 2012. El Paso police officers were dispatched to check out a missing person report. After making contact with Devin Patrick Kelley, the man who later killed 26 people in the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Sunday, police learned he escaped from Peak Behavioral Health Services. The mental health treatment facility is located in Santa Teresa, New Mexico.
Kelley, then 21, “suffered from mental disorders and had plans to run from Peak Behavioral Health Services” by purchasing a bus ticket.
The police report states Peak Behavioral Health Services advised the officers that Kelley “was a danger to himself and others as he had already been caught sneaking fire arms {sic} onto Holloman Airforce {sic} base.” The statement continues, reporting Kelley “was attempting to carry out death threats that (Kelley) had made on his military chain of command.”
The police report further advised that Kelley was facing criminal charges.
This might also explain why he couldn't get a Carry Licence in Texas, but could pass a background check to purchase a Firearm,
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-17, 21:33
Yeah Clint gets it. He's also funny as hell.
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I like when he is talking about the 500 mags and he says not to be a retard. I'm trying to bring back the use of the word 'retarded' and men wearing Crocs. Sometimes both just fit so well....
I like when he is talking about the 500 mags and he says not to be a retard. I'm trying to bring back the use of the word 'retard' and men wearing Crocs. Sometimes both just fit so well....
I use Retarded and Gay too often. Often with the F word in front of it for a little more effect! I don't mean to insulting to gay folks or people with Downs Syndrome.
I use Retarded and Gay too often. Often with the F word in front of it for a little more effect! I don't mean to insulting to gay folks or people with Downs Syndrome. I have the same issue.... I also use f*cktard way too much.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-08-17, 00:33
I have the same issue.... I also use f*cktard way too much.
Opps, actually meant retarded as an adjective or a verb. Have a Brit buddy who uses it and doesn't get the issue.
Moose-Knuckle
11-08-17, 01:32
I don't think he needs second guessed at all.
Huh?
I said I'm NOT second guessing him.
I surmise after this incident he keeps mags loaded at the ready. My hope is people can learn from this incident and as a result save more lives in the future. CCW inside soft target venues such as a church and keep mags of a known quality loaded with reputable ammunition readily available.
I watched that Clint video and split my collection of 30 Glock 17 mags, loaded them up, distributed a couple around the house, and took 15 to the business I own and put them in a couple spots. Sure makes more sense than having them in my range bag. I need to invest in some sort of AR quick access locker in the future.
Moose-Knuckle
11-08-17, 02:20
Yeah Clint gets it. He's also funny as hell.
Yes he does and yes he is.
I would love to have been around Gunsite when he, Pat, and Louis were all toiling under the tutelage of Col. Cooper.
The stories he could tell . . .
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