View Full Version : Stolen valor at the museum (mind blown)
I see stolen valor at the UDT-SEAL museum regularly, usually in the form of someone who had been told by their uncle or neighbor they were a SEAL, and on looking them up in the books, it’s not so. I’d say 3 out of 5 times that’s the case. Some times they take it well, some times they get defensive and tell us the books are wrong, and my personal favorite “his info was removed from BUDs because he went to Six” and so forth. The director of the museum was a DevGru sniper of note, and his, like all others, is found in the books, which are every guy who went through BUDs and went on to be UDT or a SEAL from guy #1.
Today I whitened a stolen valor event that blew me away. 3 guys and their wives show up on bikes, in their matching club vests and such. All ex team guys who wanted us to look up their info for chits and giggles and make some copies of their BUDs graduation pics and such. I’d say they were all late 50s to early 60s. They were in town for the annual muster and came in next day too. I pull out the books and help them find their stuff. Meanwhile they keep asking “Where’s Bob? He was right behind us. He was class 196 right? He’s gonna wanna see this”* and so forth. They attempt to look up Bob. Can’t find him in the class they recall he claimed to be in. They said Bob had been a Marine who’d decided to become a SEAL. Now they’re asking each other what BUDs class he was in and think maybe they have it wrong and decide to wait for him to show. At this point I don’t think any of them thought their friend Bob was full of shit, just that they must have his BUDs class number wrong.
Im standing there in this small library room with them, all the books open, them shooting the shit, etc and a dude (Bob) walks into the room, looks down at the books, slowly scans around at the hopeful look on his pals faces, spins around and walks of of the museum, gets on his bike, and rides off.
We are all looking at each other with “WFT just happened here?” looks. I ask “How long have you known Bob?” Apparently these four guys have been tight buddies for decades and take annual rides, etc. I was just blown away.
One guys says something like “did what happen just really happen? He walked the walk and talked the talk. I never had any doubts he was a SEAL. I have taken him to the VA myself a bunch of times”
At that point I think they were all in such shock they didn’t have time to work up to being angry. They just looked really disappointed. I guess old Bob just figured they’d walk around the museum and look at stuff and go, but I got that feeling I get from the start when Bob was taking so long to get there when he’d been right behind them, probably pulled over wondering if he could pull it off. The worried glances and such you see. The part about being in the mil is true due to going to the VA I figured, but after that who knows? Perhaps he was a Marine. I felt for the guys, they’d literally lost a good friend right before my eyes and what went from a good time to a crappy one real fast.
That’s the worst experience of that kind I have had to date. The rest run of the mil stuff. Only surprise to me after being there about 2 years now is the fact there’s that many people who have lead friends, relatives, etc to believe they were Frogmen.
* = Real name not Bob
That's wild. Prolly lost good friends. Just be straight with people. They probably would've liked him the same.
NYH1.
That's wild. Prolly lost good friends. Just be straight with people. They probably would've liked him the same.
NYH1.
I suspect once the shock wears off it may not be good day to be Bob.
I suspect once the shock wears off it may not be good day to be Bob.
I think you're right....SEALs don't like that $h!t!
NYH1
Do you work for the UDT museum? That's awesome, I go to Miami a lot but never that far north. I need to go check it out.
Holy hell that must have been awkward Will. Bob turned out to be a diuche. All lies eventually come out into the light, today Was just Bob's time.
I kinda feel bad for the other three dudes. They may never trust another Bob ever again and that's a shame cause they may miss out of future friendships. This guy ruined it for them.
Of all the 2,500 active duty Navy Seals out there I'm pretty sure I've met all 10,000 of them.
Incredibly there have been about 500 team leaders for Group 6 alone.
Diamondback
11-05-17, 21:47
Oh, I've got a Stolen Valor case I heard firsthand that'll make you guys blow a headgasket for sure... as one who didn't get to serve myself, I'm usually rather reluctant to challenge someone's service--the only time I've done it was a loudmouthed hoser and poser who was trying to bilk some DSHS gal out of veteran benefits. (I work out of public libraries a lot using their Reference and Military History collections to augment my own, and some of the people you see at the next worktable... Um. Yeah. There's a REASON I discreetly wear a sidearm and am building an AR to fit in my laptop case...)
His story was that he had been a Navy SEAL in Nam, flying P-51 Mustangs off the USS Nimitz WITH Admiral Nimitz, and how many obvious points of BULLSHIT can we spot just in that one summary before I toss the spoilers as a Professional Military Historian?
The gal from DSHS was none too happy with me for throwing the BS flag... must have been behind quota or something. Pro-tip: When you're gonna shovel the BS wide and deep, make sure there isn't somebody who knows the true story around. Doubly, don't spew your bull in a public library where all the books that PROVE you're a lying heap of dogshit are just a few feet away... otherwise, you get the receiving end of the intellectual version of this:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8qepqb14D1qa5y6mo1_500.gif
Howdy,
Will....you just dont know man.
I served with Bob in Seal Team 15 in the 80s. We were like deep undercover and in NOC lists. Well, anyhow, we were issued Beretta 93Rs in 10MM and UZIs in .45 ACP. We tore up Asia we did. Whoever we didnt kill we impregnated.
Bob was particularly vicious. He didnt want all the JV Seals to know all the dark shit we did.
It was messed up. We answered only to Reagan and God. Remember the red telephone? That was our hotline
You all can talk shit on M4C only because me and Bob kept evil away with our Beretta 93Rs in 10MM with thirty round clips.
I'm surprised he was hanging around guys who went through the Easy BUDS courses. We had to HALO jump from the International Space Station to graduate. It was tough. Bob got a little weird after we assaasinated Castro in '88. The guy you THINK is Castro was a body double.
But thats NDA territory.
All I know is if it werent for Bob and my trusty belt keepers, I'd be dead.
HTH,
Firefly
Diamondback
11-05-17, 22:29
Thanks for the laugh, Firefly. I needed it after the memory of that Walking Colostomy Bag spiked my blood pressure in scary ways...
93Rs...yes! Firefly, that’s some funny stuff.
kaiservontexas
11-05-17, 23:24
Firefly you need to write books. Lol
ramairthree
11-06-17, 00:39
Sometimes it’s other relatives spreading the BS.
My wife’s uncle never claimed to be a seal.
His wife and his Mom sure did.
He enlisted in the navy and did the nuc power program.
He worked at plants after getting out.
He did do the navy basic scuba diver course.
Based on this they told everyone he had been a seal.
It's a douche thing to do for sure, but not Stolen Valor (unless he tries to parlay it into obtaining bennies).
It makes me sad and mad at the same time. I can't imagine what goes on in these guys noggins....
My POS brother-in-law claims to have been an Army sniper in Panama in the early 80s on a team sent to target Noriega. My nephew (the POS's step-son; he's my sister's second husband) is in the Army reserve, found his info (MP, in Panama, briefly) and called him on it...only to be told it was "secret" and his info was redacted for "national security."
Sometimes it’s other relatives spreading the BS.
My wife’s uncle never claimed to be a seal.
His wife and his Mom sure did.
He enlisted in the navy and did the nuc power program.
He worked at plants after getting out.
He did do the navy basic scuba diver course.
Based on this they told everyone he had been a seal.
When I was an EM, I was a corpsman, with Marine Reconnaissance. I never finished the pipeline, so I was never a SARC; yet people introduce me to other Marines (esp in the Recon community) as a SARC. Even though my duties were exactly the same and the job was exactly the same, I did not earn the NEC, so it's disingenuous.
This happens to Navy divers, corpsmen, and any other Naval personnel that augment or otherwise assigned to any SOF-type unit.
I imagine it happens in the Army too with non-SOF guys assigned to SF, etc.
High Tower
11-06-17, 08:25
That's wild. Prolly lost good friends. Just be straight with people. They probably would've liked him the same.
NYH1.
That's just it - if you were a cook, carpenter, admin, whatever - at least you served and contributed to the overall mission. You'll get some crap for being a pog, but you'll still end up with more respect that claiming to be some seal team 13 guy.
Do you work for the UDT museum? That's awesome, I go to Miami a lot but never that far north. I need to go check it out.
Yes, I'm a tour/answer guy on Sunday. Member Alex V (below) recently posted his experience there. He will confirm what ever you think you'll see, it's cooler then that. Been trying ti get a M4C group visit for a while, but like herding cats on meth ;)
Holy hell that must have been awkward Will. Bob turned out to be a diuche. All lies eventually come out into the light, today Was just Bob's time.
I kinda feel bad for the other three dudes. They may never trust another Bob ever again and that's a shame cause they may miss out of future friendships. This guy ruined it for them.
The mood in the room dropped real fast. By far the worst thing I have seen at the museum to date.
Howdy,
Will....you just dont know man.
Wise ass. :dirol:
That's just it - if you were a cook, carpenter, admin, whatever - at least you served and contributed to the overall mission. You'll get some crap for being a pog, but you'll still end up with more respect that claiming to be some seal team 13 guy.
I didn't serve and if someone who was a cool kid does not wanna be my friend because I was not, then frankly, not someone I wanna be friends with. So, me, I consider that a moot issue, but I know embellishing the mil experience for those that were " ...a cook, carpenter, admin, whatever" very common.
When I was an EM, I was a corpsman, with Marine Reconnaissance. I never finished the pipeline, so I was never a SARC; yet people introduce me to other Marines (esp in the Recon community) as a SARC. Even though my duties were exactly the same and the job was exactly the same, I did not earn the NEC, so it's disingenuous.
This happens to Navy divers, corpsmen, and any other Naval personnel that augment or otherwise assigned to any SOF-type unit.
I imagine it happens in the Army too with non-SOF guys assigned to SF, etc.
Being attached to a high speed unit is honorable.
There are more people claiming to be SEALS, Delta, USMC Recon, etc., than you can shake a stick at and it is disconcerting. One of the retired old men that rarely shows up for the weekly coffee B.S. session avoids a few of us like the plague. He gives the typical "my unit in Vietnam was so secret there is no record of my being in the military" story. I don't think the guy was ever on active duty and I hit the door when he shows up.
I have a question for you Will. Are personnel who did not survive BUDS listed in the records at the museum?
There are more people claiming to be SEALS, Delta, USMC Recon, etc., than you can shake a stick at and it is disconcerting. One of the retired old men that rarely shows up for the weekly coffee B.S. session avoids a few of us like the plague. He gives the typical "my unit in Vietnam was so secret there is no record of my being in the military" story. I don't think the guy was ever on active duty and I hit the door when he shows up.
I have a question for you Will. Are personnel who did not survive BUDS listed in the records at the museum?
This is true.
My rule, the guys claiming nothing or who claimed to be cooks were more likely in the shit than the ones who claim to have been.
There are more people claiming to be SEALS, Delta, USMC Recon, etc., than you can shake a stick at and it is disconcerting. One of the retired old men that rarely shows up for the weekly coffee B.S. session avoids a few of us like the plague. He gives the typical "my unit in Vietnam was so secret there is no record of my being in the military" story. I don't think the guy was ever on active duty and I hit the door when he shows up.
Hell, even SOG was declassified some years ago and that was very secret squirrel stuff.
I have a question for you Will. Are personnel who did not survive BUDS listed in the records at the museum?
Just those who graduated BUDs. The Navy would have the records for those who entered but did not complete BUDs. It's funny, we never get guys who claimed to have gone to BUDs but not completed.
Just those who graduated BUDs. The Navy would have the records for those who entered but did not complete BUDs. It's funny, we never get guys who claimed to have gone to BUDs but not completed.
Those guys are out there, too. Most claim they were med drops; I don't think I met a single person who dropped because of performance.
I did know a guy who tried BUDS 3 times; was injured all three, once before Hell Week, twice after. Once put into a med hold and allowed to rehab; twice rolled back to the previous class. After the third time they told him they advised against reapplying and that his body just wasn't up to the stress. He ended up going SWCC. But no, the DD214 won't reflect going to BUDS, at all.
Howdy,
Will....you just dont know man.
I served with Bob in Seal Team 15 in the 80s. We were like deep undercover and in NOC lists. Well, anyhow, we were issued Beretta 93Rs in 10MM and UZIs in .45 ACP. We tore up Asia we did. Whoever we didnt kill we impregnated.
Bob was particularly vicious. He didnt want all the JV Seals to know all the dark shit we did.
It was messed up. We answered only to Reagan and God. Remember the red telephone? That was our hotline
You all can talk shit on M4C only because me and Bob kept evil away with our Beretta 93Rs in 10MM with thirty round clips.
I'm surprised he was hanging around guys who went through the Easy BUDS courses. We had to HALO jump from the International Space Station to graduate. It was tough. Bob got a little weird after we assaasinated Castro in '88. The guy you THINK is Castro was a body double.
But thats NDA territory.
All I know is if it werent for Bob and my trusty belt keepers, I'd be dead.
HTH,
Firefly
Thank you for your service!
Those guys are out there, too. Most claim they were med drops; I don't think I met a single person who dropped because of performance.
I did know a guy who tried BUDS 3 times; was injured all three, once before Hell Week, twice after. Once put into a med hold and allowed to rehab; twice rolled back to the previous class. After the third time they told him they advised against reapplying and that his body just wasn't up to the stress. He ended up going SWCC. But no, the DD214 won't reflect going to BUDS, at all.
And that alone is impressive. That's one stubborn SOB right there. SWCC always seemed like a damn cool place to be. All SEAL support units, SWCC, etc are honored and have a section at the museum and are among the very few who get in for free. SWCC guy are always cool cats too :cool:
That's just it - if you were a cook, carpenter, admin, whatever - at least you served and contributed to the overall mission. You'll get some crap for being a pog, but you'll still end up with more respect that claiming to be some seal team 13 guy.
That's just it. They did say Bob was really a Marine before his BS SEAL story. Marines are awesome, way more then most people will ever do.
NYH1.
That's just it. They did say Bob was really a Marine before his BS SEAL story. Marines are awesome, way more then most people will ever do.
NYH1.
That's what get me: If you are a Marines, why would you lie about being a SEAL?? If you are/were a Marines, case closed.
Although I would talk shit about other branches/rates/MOSs/NECs, the bottom line is if balled up an served, you are good.
That's just it. They did say Bob was really a Marine before his BS SEAL story. Marines are awesome, way more then most people will ever do.
NYH1.
According to Bob, so...
I find it odd a real [ex]SEAL cannot vet someone. I can vet someone from my .gov service in a minute or so with just a few questions.
I find it odd a real [ex]SEAL cannot vet someone. I can vet someone from my .gov service in a minute or so with just a few questions.
Apparently they simply never felt compelled to do so.
Apparently they simply never felt compelled to do so.
YMMV.
Over the course of decades it would come become apparent he was a fraud, especially if he claimed to graduate within a class of them, but did not seem to know anyone in common, etc.
YMMV.
Over the course of decades it would come become apparent he was a fraud, especially if he claimed to graduate within a class of them, but did not seem to know anyone in common, etc.
I can only tell you what happened in front of me. Why they didn't look into his background before I couldn't say, but at the same time, not that surprised they didn't. It was not until he turned and left did their expressions turn to recognition he had been lying all along about it. I had a friend who told me she'd graduated with an MBA from NYU. She never seemed all that bright, but I figured maybe she had the acumen for that narrow focus. Learned some years later from her cousin she didn't graduate college much less the NYU MBA program. It all made sense once I learned but that was in retrospect. On inspection of other claims, turned out she was a pathological liar.
Damn...
Wow, I couldn't even imagine.
I feel weird telling people my Father's History as he was trained in on an Airborne Artillery Unit. He wanted to be Forward Recon, but had eyeglasses.
He wound up being within Army Intelligence for a little bit as a Driver around the base.
He said he learned some cool driving techniques, and got to meet some cool people as he drove them around. Some real hardass-hardened guys too.
But, he was never one to flaunt his service. He didn't mind being "Just a driver on a base." he did his Basic, Artillery Training, and we have the video of him, as a young man, leaving the gassing chamber after experiencing his first dose of CS (I think) gas.
He also said that after his last Night Jump, he never wants to jump again. Apparently he got pretty disorientated, freaked him out, but he got on track somehow and worked it out right. He graduated, spent a little time working on the base, and then went home. He never saw combat, never wanted to see combat.
His Father was in Korea as an Intelligence worker. His older brother had joined but died due to heart issues a couple years after graduating.
Either way, I know that Stolen Valor was something my Grandfather would start swinging over. And did A LOT, I heard.
So, I hope my father wouldn't have even dreamed of it.
I can only tell you what happened in front of me.
Was not criticising you, just surprised they did not figure it out sooner. Guess they did not talk shop much.
Was not criticising you, just surprised they did not figure it out sooner. Guess they did not talk shop much.
Rgr rgr. I gathered they did actually as they indicated he talked the talk to the point they never even suspected anything, but who knows. I can say the other 3 guys were legit.
On a side note, the Navy Seal Museum is awesome and worth taking a trip to experience it if you’re in the area. I️ visited back in 2014 when I️ living down there. Amazing experience.
Sucks that those guys had to have their day and friendship ruined by Bob’s selfish lies coming to light.
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The VP of our company was a Marine and was the Security Assistant for the Commander and Chief Pacific, he worked for Admiral Foley who was the Vice Chief of Naval Operations and Commander and Chief of the Pacific Fleet as well as the US representative to NATO Operations Committee. He also worked for Admiral Jeremiah who was Commander in Chief Pacific Command, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander Pacific. He said that as time goes on and people get older, they tend to embellish there service history. He said he follows a lot of his old pals on LinkedIn and message boards who claim they were Force Recon, some type of Expeditionary Unit, Mountain Division when they were in reality attached to security detail at an Embassy in Japan or logistics support for CINCPAC. If someone has never served and claims to have served, I have a problem with that but if someone served and had a crappy job and wants to embellish it a little, I think that is ok as long as they are not trying to sell themselves as a hero. Not all military jobs are fun or worth talking about.
On a side note, the Navy Seal Museum is awesome and worth taking a trip to experience it if you’re in the area. I️ visited back in 2014 when I️ living down there. Amazing experience.
Sucks that those guys had to have their day and friendship ruined by Bob’s selfish lies coming to light.
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FYI, the museum has been almost totally redone since your visit. You'd hardly recognize it.
FYI, the museum has been almost totally redone since your visit. You'd hardly recognize it.
I gotta check it out!
In all seriousness, I would like a copy of my fathers DD214, or to see if they have corresponding graduating class pictures too.
I have his Basic Grad picture in the bezel curved frame, but it's a single picture of him, not his class. Will have to take a pic of that when I get home from NC.
My father had everything of his in the same black trunk case he went to Bragg with and left Bragg with. Sadly, we lost it in a storage unit during a move many many years ago. I wish I could get him his current Mil ID if possible too. Any chance the Army has a spot like yours where this stuff can be viewed, requested?
Don't expect you to know for sure, but would be interested if anyone knew how to acquire this stuff.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-17, 14:14
Those guys are out there, too. Most claim they were med drops; I don't think I met a single person who dropped because of performance.
I did know a guy who tried BUDS 3 times; was injured all three, once before Hell Week, twice after. Once put into a med hold and allowed to rehab; twice rolled back to the previous class. After the third time they told him they advised against reapplying and that his body just wasn't up to the stress. He ended up going SWCC. But no, the DD214 won't reflect going to BUDS, at all.
I remember from some BUDS documentary that a guy got all the way through the screening, but that they had to tell him that he wasn't SEAL level material. You get through the screening step, but you aren't olympic level athletic so you don't make the cut. That to me sounded almost as impressive since getting through without having the the right stuff makes the 'Rudy' story pale in comparison. Am I remembering that right? I was just thinking that guy would be sent back to his old job and everyone I guess would assume he quit or failed out.
I gotta check it out!
In all seriousness, I would like a copy of my fathers DD214, or to see if they have corresponding graduating class pictures too.
I have his Basic Grad picture in the bezel curved frame, but it's a single picture of him, not his class. Will have to take a pic of that when I get home from NC.
My father had everything of his in the same black trunk case he went to Bragg with and left Bragg with. Sadly, we lost it in a storage unit during a move many many years ago. I wish I could get him his current Mil ID if possible too. Any chance the Army has a spot like yours where this stuff can be viewed, requested?
Don't expect you to know for sure, but would be interested if anyone knew how to acquire this stuff.
Someone else no doubt will have some intel on that. Good luck!
FYI, the museum has been almost totally redone since your visit. You'd hardly recognize it.
I️ might have to visit again now when I’m down in January visiting the in-laws. Thanks for that heads up!
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Rayrevolver
11-06-17, 14:38
I gotta check it out!
In all seriousness, I would like a copy of my fathers DD214, or to see if they have corresponding graduating class pictures too.
I have his Basic Grad picture in the bezel curved frame, but it's a single picture of him, not his class. Will have to take a pic of that when I get home from NC.
Go to the National Personnel Records Center website:
https://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/about-ompfs.html
I just did this. Took about 6 months to show up but its free.
Go to the National Personnel Records Center website:
https://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/about-ompfs.html
I just did this. Took about 6 months to show up but its free.
That is awesome!
Thank you sir, very very much appreciated. Will request this ASAP.
As you mentioned Will; we are lucky to have such a vast wealth of knowledge here.
titsonritz
11-06-17, 15:05
All I know is if it werent for Bob and my trusty belt keepers, I'd be dead.
Now that is some funny shit right there.
That is awesome!
Thank you sir, very very much appreciated. Will request this ASAP.
As you mentioned Will; we are lucky to have such a vast wealth of knowledge here.
That will get you his DD214. If you wants medals he earned, if you request they will provide those, too.
As for pics, I suggest contacting the base PAO where he went to basic....they often know about repositories or other places that may have old grad pics or graduation books.
Those guys are out there, too. Most claim they were med drops; I don't think I met a single person who dropped because of performance.
I did know a guy who tried BUDS 3 times; was injured all three, once before Hell Week, twice after. Once put into a med hold and allowed to rehab; twice rolled back to the previous class. After the third time they told him they advised against reapplying and that his body just wasn't up to the stress. He ended up going SWCC. But no, the DD214 won't reflect going to BUDS, at all.
Courses completed not failed go on the DD214.
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Dist. Expert 26
11-06-17, 15:22
I'll never understand these people.
I worked with a kid who went around claiming to have been in 2nd Recon, gone everywhere and killed 7000 terrorists.
I knew it was bullshit, so I hit up a guy I went to high school with who was actually an 0321. He'd never heard of the kid.
One post in a USMC Facebook page found people that served with him and revealed that he got out on a BS med board after 2 years working on C-130's.
You can't tell lies like this anymore and get away with it. I don't know why people still try.
The VP of our company was a Marine and was the Security Assistant for the Commander and Chief Pacific, he worked for Admiral Foley who was the Vice Chief of Naval Operations and Commander and Chief of the Pacific Fleet as well as the US representative to NATO Operations Committee. He also worked for Admiral Jeremiah who was Commander in Chief Pacific Command, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff and Supreme Allied Commander Pacific. He said that as time goes on and people get older, they tend to embellish there service history. He said he follows a lot of his old pals on LinkedIn and message boards who claim they were Force Recon, some type of Expeditionary Unit, Mountain Division when they were in reality attached to security detail at an Embassy in Japan or logistics support for CINCPAC. If someone has never served and claims to have served, I have a problem with that but if someone served and had a crappy job and wants to embellish it a little, I think that is ok as long as they are not trying to sell themselves as a hero. Not all military jobs are fun or worth talking about.
That's lying plain and simple. It shouldn't be excepted or condoned.
NYH1.
Now that is some funny shit right there.
Firefly has one hell of a memory, that is for sure.
Courses completed not failed go on the DD214.
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In his case, BUDS won't be on there in spite of being there for a year. But completion of SWCC school is.
I agree. I have a older friend who is a well known dentist in Dallas and was a Lt Commander in the US Navy Dental Corps. Nothing special, nothing worth talking about, I mean, they don't even advertise that shit! When was the last time someone talked about the Few, the proud, the dental corps. He has told me he partied with seals at times. Do I believe him? I don't know. He was a dentist in the US Navy. Do Seals and Dentist party together? I don't know. But it makes for good conversation, he isn't lying about his involvement in the USN and maybe he worked on a seals tooth or did a filling, who knows. That's why I say I understand if someone embellishes a little but not outright fabricates a completely different alternative to what is real.
That's lying plain and simple. It shouldn't be excepted or condoned.
NYH1.
I'm with you on that one. People have to remember, people who serve or who have served are still people in the end, susceptible to all the lying, cheating, and stealing that people do. It's like good job for signing up, but lying about what you did or didn't do is an integrity issue. You know, one of the character traits that is supposed to be an exemplar of every branch of service? I hate to admit it, but I knew some shitbag Marines. Not in terms of competency, but as in the lying, cheating, stealing type.
My bro in-law, who spent over a decade of his 21yr army career attached to the 1/3 SFG, NEVER embellishes. He is very clear when he talks about his service that he was not an SF guy, even though he was blown up by an IED in combat (recovered and returned to service) . I think it's bullshit when guys embellish what they do in the military. Nothing to be ashamed of if you are support, a dentist, a nurse, or a damn truck mechanic.
In his case, BUDS won't be on there in spite of being there for a year. But completion of SWCC school is.
And if anyone claims to hold the SWCC rating prior to 1987, they are pulling your chain. Prior to that SBS and SBU billets were filled with mixed source ratings.
And this is a perfect example of why "Family Initiated Stolen Valor" is so easy.
My Father just confirmed to me he was with the 101st at Fort Sill in his Artillery Training.
I had always thought it was Bragg.
Easy enough to mix up after not talking about it for a few years I suppose.
Apparently they simply never felt compelled to do so.
Maybe he guess right when they asked him the color of the boat house at Hereford.
Maybe he guess right when they asked him the color of the boat house at Hereford.
That's SAS bro! Should have asked what the most popular strip club in Coronado was...
And this is a perfect example of why "Family Initiated Stolen Valor" is so easy.
My Father just confirmed to me he was with the 101st at Fort Sill in his Artillery Training.
I had always thought it was Bragg.
Easy enough to mix up after not talking about it for a few years I suppose.
The 101st is at Ft. Campbell. 82nd is at Bragg but they both fall under the 18th Airborne Corp which is headquartered at Bragg also.
Sounds like I need the DD214 to truly confirm all the details.
Not sure if I am misrepresenting him in these claims or not. His exact text to me last night was:
"nope. I did one station training at fort sill ok. fort sill was home to the artillery and missile units."
This was after I asked him what Division he was in. When he stated 101st, I asked him if the base was Bragg, and that was his reply.
We will see in about 6 months I suppose. Haha.
ETA: I should also mention this was in 1986-87. Unless I did already.
ETA2: He has no idea I am talking to others about this, but I asked him again for more details; he said that when he went to Fort Sill, it was one of the original "One Station Unit Training" programs. He completed Basic and Advanced all at Sill. I just bugged him for his MOS.
ETA: He was a Airborne 13Bravo, he also said by the end of his service he had earned MOS for Clerk with Mil Intelligence and another as a Cook.
His words, dunno how that really works, but sounds like you can several MOS over your military career? Looking it up, I now see it is entirely possible to have a plethora of MOS.
His last text on MOS was: "clerk was a like 71 bravo i and cook was 91 or 94 bravo"
Sounds like I need the DD214 to truly confirm all the details.
Not sure if I am misrepresenting him in these claims or not. His exact text to me last night was:
"nope. I did one station training at fort sill ok. fort sill was home to the artillery and missile units."
This was after I asked him what Division he was in. When he stated 101st, I asked him if the base was Bragg, and that was his reply.
We will see in about 6 months I suppose. Haha.
ETA: I should also mention this was in 1986-87. Unless I did already.
ETA2: He has no idea I am talking to others about this, but I asked him again for more details; he said that when he went to Fort Sill, it was one of the original "One Station Unit Training" programs. He completed Basic and Advanced all at Sill. I just bugged him for his MOS.
ETA: He was a Airborne 13Bravo, he also said by the end of his service he had earned MOS for Clerk with Mil Intelligence and another as a Cook.
His words, dunno how that really works, but sounds like you can several MOS over your military career? Looking it up, I now see it is entirely possible to have a plethora of MOS.
His last text on MOS was: "clerk was a like 71 bravo i and cook was 91 or 94 bravo"
During that time period, FA OSUT at Sill, and the 101st was at FTCKY. I suspect your dad PCS's directly to the 101st after OSUT....and yes, you can qualify for multiple MOS's..
The issue is simple, you either tell the truth or you don't. If anyone makes an assumption about your military service, you have a moral obligation to correct them ASAP.
Sounds like I need the DD214 to truly confirm all the details.
Not sure if I am misrepresenting him in these claims or not. His exact text to me last night was:
"nope. I did one station training at fort sill ok. fort sill was home to the artillery and missile units."
This was after I asked him what Division he was in. When he stated 101st, I asked him if the base was Bragg, and that was his reply.
We will see in about 6 months I suppose. Haha.
ETA: I should also mention this was in 1986-87. Unless I did already.
ETA2: He has no idea I am talking to others about this, but I asked him again for more details; he said that when he went to Fort Sill, it was one of the original "One Station Unit Training" programs. He completed Basic and Advanced all at Sill. I just bugged him for his MOS.
ETA: He was a Airborne 13Bravo, he also said by the end of his service he had earned MOS for Clerk with Mil Intelligence and another as a Cook.
His words, dunno how that really works, but sounds like you can several MOS over your military career? Looking it up, I now see it is entirely possible to have a plethora of MOS.
His last text on MOS was: "clerk was a like 71 bravo i and cook was 91 or 94 bravo"
Ft. Sill is where he would have done his training at. He very easily could have been assigned to an artillery unit in the 101st at Ft. Campbell afterwards. Having multiple MOS's is easily possible.
Doc Safari
11-09-17, 11:38
I think that is ok as long as they are not trying to sell themselves as a hero. Not all military jobs are fun or worth talking about.
I have to disagree. I worked with an officer who bragged openly about his training, experience, etc., when he was in the military. He never claimed to be a hero, but he definitely did his best to instill confidence that if there was a disturbance he would be right there backing up his fellow officers.
Turned out he was a cook in the air force or navy (can't remember which).
So much for instilling confidence.
A lie is a lie and when it causes other people to unjustifiably rely on you, then it's harmful.
I have to disagree. I worked with an officer who bragged openly about his training, experience, etc., when he was in the military. He never claimed to be a hero, but he definitely did his best to instill confidence that if there was a disturbance he would be right there backing up his fellow officers.
Turned out he was a cook in the air force or navy (can't remember which).
So much for instilling confidence.
I take it you've never seen Under Siege? Cooks bring it.
And I agree: A lie is a lie and when it causes other people to unjustifiably rely on you, then it's harmful.
Doc Safari
11-09-17, 11:47
I take it you've never seen Under Siege? Cooks bring it.
LOL. This guy was no Stephen Seagal. He reminded me of the "Sad Sack" comics from back in the day.
If ever there was an officer who might shoot his fellow officers in the ass at the range, it was this guy.
It was rumored people would call in sick if they knew they were scheduled for refresher training at the range with him.
The only people fooled by his boasting were the new line officers that didn't know him yet. So in a way his boasting was worse than just embellishing his military career.
The other career officers did their best to correct the newbies who thought he was something special.
QuickStrike
11-09-17, 13:03
So pointless to pretend.
Is being just a normal, average Joe so bad?
During that time period, FA OSUT at Sill, and the 101st was at FTCKY. I suspect your dad PCS's directly to the 101st after OSUT....and yes, you can qualify for multiple MOS's..
Ft. Sill is where he would have done his training at. He very easily could have been assigned to an artillery unit in the 101st at Ft. Campbell afterwards. Having multiple MOS's is easily possible.
I appreciate you both following those ramblings enough to provide some extra details and input. It's nice to be able to understand more of my family history, particularly my father, whom has (in my eyes) represented his career in a non boisterous way. To be honest, I can't even recall a situation growing up where he just said his history to brag. It's just never been that way, for him, that I know of.
He's always been content with just having did his time, like his father before him, like his grandfather before him; and so on.
I can't say us kids of his had upheld that legacy. My brother was a NJROTC Cadet, for his entire highschool career, but it just wasn't something I was interested in. I did take the practice ASVAB, and scored pretty well, but glasses woulda limited me from doing what I wanted to do: Be a fighter pilot. So, I said no. I was never "lean" or even really not chunky. Being 6' 3", I found out later (or so I heard), woulda disqualed me anyways. So, I never joined.
Im not saying it ok to lie about what you do in the military, but hell, everyone embellishes a little, I was saying I understand why some people embellish.
Dont wanna stray from my lane or tinkle on any boots but....
There are more folks wearing Vietnam Veteran merch now than when I was a kid.
And I can recall as a kid like legit vets some younger and older getting like visibly, teetotaling pissed seeing folks wear that shit openly like it was cool.
Like coming to an airport full of assholes and listening to the bullshit and now, now...
20-30 years later you wanna rep?
Lot of sour faces anytime folks brought it up.
They just lived their lives.
But in 2017, I see oooooodles of Vietnam Merch more than GWOT. So....there it is
I think the GWOT and 'Thank You For Your Service' thing has kind of encouraged folks to revisit the treatment of the VN vets and in doing so encouraged some of the veterans to come out of the closet so to speak. Now it is popular to be a veteran.
I think 63 is just about the bottom age for a VN veteran. I believe late in 1973 was when the air war ended, ground troops were gone before that. I see guys, apparently younger than me, wearing or displaying VN Vet stuff on their cars and I go, hmmm.
I think the GWOT and 'Thank You For Your Service' thing has kind of encouraged folks to revisit the treatment of the VN vets and in doing so encouraged some of the veterans to come out of the closet so to speak. Now it is popular to be a veteran.
I agree, vets coming home from Desert Strom and the GWOT had confidence in the fight, had a sense of pride and were proud to be fighting bad guys. Same with WW2 guys, most of them are proud of what they did. But I happen to think that the US leadership during times of war helps. FDR, Reagan, Bush and now Trump give a lot of attention to the troops whereas Truman, LBJ, Clinton and Obama hardly mentioned them.
I also think it's something you grab onto as you get older. I have a cap or 2 that says Iraq/Afghan Vet but don't think I've ever worn either. I think many of the VN vets didn't feel they could wear thier service then, but now can, so do. 3 weeks ago I was asked to speak to a group of VN vets at thier reunion. I got way more out of it than they did. FWIW I'm not sure that Iraq vets get the feeling of fighting the good fight. They(politicians) gave it back. We weren't ostracized but don't think for a minute that the comparisons weren't made, at least in many of our minds.
I think the GWOT and 'Thank You For Your Service' thing has kind of encouraged folks to revisit the treatment of the VN vets and in doing so encouraged some of the veterans to come out of the closet so to speak. Now it is popular to be a veteran.
I think 63 is just about the bottom age for a VN veteran. I believe late in 1973 was when the air war ended, ground troops were gone before that. I see guys, apparently younger than me, wearing or displaying VN Vet stuff on their cars and I go, hmmm.
Maybe.
But some of these guys wearing Vietnam merch are either moisturizing like a mofo or were in the Junior Auxillary Reserve Drummer Boy Brigade....
Like...I was related to a few Nam vets and , as a kid, if some goofy dude sauntered by with that ballcap or "Vietnam Alumni Class of '69" they got grilled and mean mugged HARD well into the 1990s.
Like The youngest dude was 39 and oldest almost 50. And they just like wanted to just about murder homeboy.
Maybe time has passed and people are being open more, which can be a good learning and torch passing deal. It can be good.
But some folks, esp combat arms, just couldnt even. Like I mean you could FEEL the pissed offedness radiating from them.
They got a raw deal from the hop heads and the hippies and the govt made some horrible mistakes (conscription, getting involved in other peoples BS, not caring about the soldiers) and it was just something you didnt bring up or make light of.
I mean a dude with a Glass eye and a plate seeing a portly dude beebopping along all jolly and shit with his Vietnam Veteran hat probably wouldnt feel too hooah about it.
But, if the legit survivors are okay with it. Have at it.
It is NOT the same thing but I got oodles of cop shirts hanging around my closet that I cant wear anywhere but dont wanna get messed up as knockarounds.
My Academy graduation T shirt still in the plastic wrap. That was a while ago.
Like nobody cares, nobody thinks youre cool, and some jiveass rookie or some old ass has been will take the bait and try to flex on you.
I'm happy wearing a horror shirt or a band shirt and my sweats or whatever.
I think the people who would benefit most from each other find one another naturally.
Cool knows cool and all.
Maybe.
But some of these guys wearing Vietnam merch are either moisturizing like a mofo or were in the Junior Auxillary Reserve Drummer Boy Brigade.....
Know what you mean.
My oldest son's stepfather-in-law was always wearing stuff proclaiming him as a VN Vet. I threw the BS flag one day. I asked my son, so how old is 'Terry?' He told me Terry's age which was 4 or 5 years younger than my age at the time. Since I was about a year too young to get a chance to kill a commie for mommy, we did some quick math and learning occurred. I don't know if my son said anything to him, but he eased off on that stuff around me, at least until my daughter-in-law's mom dumped his ass.
I think 63 is just about the bottom age for a VN veteran. I believe late in 1973 was when the air war ended, ground troops were gone before that. I see guys, apparently younger than me, wearing or displaying VN Vet stuff on their cars and I go, hmmm.
Of course there are outliers: The youngest guy to die in VN was 16 (Marine), and he joined when he was 14; buried in Goldsboro, NC. Again, a rarity and outlier, but still plausible enough that when an alleged VN vet tells me about his service or his age I always deduct a couple years for "it could happen."
Doc Safari
11-10-17, 09:01
But some of these guys wearing Vietnam merch are either moisturizing like a mofo or were in the Junior Auxillary Reserve Drummer Boy Brigade....
Like...I was related to a few Nam vets and , as a kid, if some goofy dude sauntered by with that ballcap or "Vietnam Alumni Class of '69" they got grilled and mean mugged HARD well into the 1990s.
Like The youngest dude was 39 and oldest almost 50. And they just like wanted to just about murder homeboy.
Maybe time has passed and people are being open more, which can be a good learning and torch passing deal. It can be good.
But some folks, esp combat arms, just couldnt even. Like I mean you could FEEL the pissed offedness radiating from them.
You make a valid point, but I also don't want people who just happen to wear military-ish swag to be accused of stolen valor if that's not their intent.
Several years ago, I experienced something that I'm very sorry for even though it was entirely unintentional.
I used to wear a genuine "USS New Mexico" baseball cap because it's cool and it's got local mojo and all that.
Thing is, I also like to wear khaki Dickies shirts. It didn't dawn on me, but when you've got the cap and the shirt together with a pair of dark blue jeans it could be mistaken for a modern navy uniform.
I got surprised a couple of times when people would start up a conversation with me at Wal-Mart or wherever, and end up "thanking me for my service."
OF COURSE, it embarrassed me. I immediately corrected them and explained that I just like the cap because it represents our state. It didn't occur to me until later that the khaki shirt and the USS New Mexico cap together might put the "navy uniform" image into people's heads. I stopped wearing both together.
The bottom line is: I would have been embarrassed to have any real veteran even think I was trying to imply I was in the service.
My military experience consists of "almost" signing up for Air Force ROTC, and I'm happy to always tell veterans that fact, usually while I'm in the process of thanking them for their service.
I still wear the USS New Mexico cap, but I from now on I always wear it with clothing that is obviously not anywhere near the appearance of the navy uniform just because I don't want to even unintentionally imply service that's not there. Lesson learned.
You make a valid point, but I also don't want people who just happen to wear military-ish swag to be accused of stolen valor if that's not their intent.
Several years ago, I experienced something that I'm very sorry for even though it was entirely unintentional.
I used to wear a genuine "USS New Mexico" baseball cap because it's cool and it's got local mojo and all that.
Thing is, I also like to wear khaki Dickies shirts. It didn't dawn on me, but when you've got the cap and the shirt together with a pair of dark blue jeans it could be mistaken for a modern navy uniform.
I got surprised a couple of times when people would start up a conversation with me at Wal-Mart or wherever, and end up "thanking me for my service."
OF COURSE, it embarrassed me. I immediately corrected them and explained that I just like the cap because it represents our state. It didn't occur to me until later that the khaki shirt and the USS New Mexico cap together might put the "navy uniform" image into people's heads. I stopped wearing both together.
The bottom line is: I would have been embarrassed to have any real veteran even think I was trying to imply I was in the service.
My military experience consists of "almost" signing up for Air Force ROTC, and I'm happy to always tell veterans that fact, usually while I'm in the process of thanking them for their service.
I still wear the USS New Mexico cap, but I from now on I always wear it with clothing that is obviously not anywhere near the appearance of the navy uniform just because I don't want to even unintentionally imply service that's not there. Lesson learned.
I've had it happen from some drunk dude when wearing a Tan Bravo Company hat I got from a generous member on the website here.
One and only time I wasn't for sure if this dude was going to start swinging or not. Thankfully my verbal judo was good enough to switch all topics back to him and just let him talk it out.
For real though, he wound up fighting the guy that was behind him in line. Had I not kept my cool, it coulda gone south quick.
After that, I don't really wear it anymore. Lesson learned.
Doc Safari
11-10-17, 09:07
I often wonder if I should even wear the proverbial tactical "operator" cap in public. When I do, I make sure it's got the New Mexico flag patch because you know there weren't any contractors in the sandbox that wore the cap with that insignia.
I often wonder if I should even wear the proverbial tactical "operator" cap in public. When I do, I make sure it's got the New Mexico flag patch because you know there weren't any contractors in the sandbox that wore the cap with that insignia.
Anything with velcro attachment points pretty much stands out to me, others may be different.
Doc Safari
11-10-17, 14:56
Anything with velcro attachment points pretty much stands out to me, others may be different.
My other thought is that the "operator" cap has become such a cliche that no one is likely to confuse you with an actual operator any more than someone is likely to confuse you with Michael Jordan because you wear Nike's.
My other thought is that the "operator" cap has become such a cliche that no one is likely to confuse you with an actual operator any more than someone is likely to confuse you with Michael Jordan because you wear Nike's.
Yes sir. I just don't want to be the winner in 'whoma gonna shoot fust?'
Sadly I can remember a time if you wore a Special Forces, Navy SEALs or SAS shirt or cap most people understood you weren't trying to pass yourself off as anything anymore than somebody with an NFL shirt is trying to claim they play for a team. Hell people actually wear authentic team jerseys and everyone knows they don't really play for that team. Every time I see a guy with a Navy Seal shirt I assume he was never even in the military. It's "fan gear" and nothing more.
Sadly I can remember a time if you wore a Special Forces, Navy SEALs or SAS shirt or cap most people understood you weren't trying to pass yourself off as anything anymore than somebody with an NFL shirt is trying to claim they play for a team. Hell people actually wear authentic team jerseys and everyone knows they don't really play for that team. Every time I see a guy with a Navy Seal shirt I assume he was never even in the military. It's "fan gear" and nothing more.
I quit wearing a Ranger Regiment Polo shirt I received from a family member that was a Ranger. I didn't think anything other that "I support the troops" the first time I wore it, but eventually someone thought I had been a Ranger and I realized how bad it could look. Live and learn, I guess...
I quit wearing a Ranger Regiment Polo shirt I received from a family member that was a Ranger. I didn't think anything other that "I support the troops" the first time I wore it, but eventually someone thought I had been a Ranger and I realized how bad it could look. Live and learn, I guess...
You should wear it and just learn how to say "nope" when asked. I wear my brothers stuff all the time. Back in GWI he was promoted to Staff Sergeant (same rank as our grandfather) so he could be an instructor for an Army "Dive Team" which was kinda new at the time. He sent me a bunch of their unit t shirts and I wore them until they fell apart.
People would ask sometimes and I'd just say "nope, that's my brothers group." Funny thing is, if he wasn't at work, he wouldn't wear any of that stuff. To a lot of mil guys, BDUs are like a McDonalds uniform and they wouldn't think of wearing it if they don't have to. The one thing my brother liked more than anything was "barely approved / almost civies" duds and gear. He had me ordering shit for him all the time.
About the only thing he really liked was when he made Capt., I tracked down some pure silver (WWII vintage) captain bars and sent them to him.
Not really stolen valor but, back in 2015 I was in San Diego planting a wine vineyard (Harbour Farms) in Ramona- check it out. That week I wanted to drive out to Coronado and my girlfriend and her friend went with me. We saw a bunch of younger guys wearing matching attire running down this jogging path on the beach where there were a bunch of obstacle courses in the far distance right next to the amphibious base and I said something like "hey those are navy seals" so my girlfriend and her friend flashed a group of like 10 guys as we were driving in a rented jeep. Turns out, they were a bunch of boys in high school. This photo was like "no shit" taken only moments before. I thought it was funny!
48569
And this is a perfect example of why "Family Initiated Stolen Valor" is so easy.
My Father just confirmed to me he was with the 101st at Fort Sill in his Artillery Training.
I had always thought it was Bragg.
Easy enough to mix up after not talking about it for a few years I suppose.Depending on when they served, some crazy sounding movements are possible. Korea to immediate post VN saw many "Regiments" (Really Battalions?) shuffled around between Divisions (101st, 82nd, 2ID, etc). If in more than the minimum, serving in two different divisions is pretty common, and 3 is not unusual. Even more movement at Brigade level.
All without transferring a single time. Especially in combined arms type situations. My impression is that similar happened when the current BCT thing was put in place.
My dad served in 3 different units in the Korean era (Army guard, then federalized to an USAF unit, then reorg'd to another USAF unit). Never transferred once.
I happen to be around older gentleman couple times a week. Majority of them served in some form, either in Korea or Vietnam or in between. Very few wear or even have the swag, and you wouldn't know unless it comes up in conversation. Yesterday one of them brought in pictures, and there was a lot of discussion.
I always ask when they joined, where they went, what you do, what was it like, just to get them to talk. Track mechanic in Germany. Clerk sent immediately to South Korea, etc. Mundane, and they we're thrilled to get that post rather than the alternatives (VN, usually).
One guy turned out to be K9 Handler in Vietnam. Drafted, then happened to have transferred to my son's current unit, so gave him a hat pin I had picked up for a couple of bucks while visiting his post. He got a little teary-eyed, and mentioned that he's just got back in contact with the Scout dog Association, and was hoping to find pictures of himself or buddies in country or at least his dog. I've dug up some links for him, etc.
I let them talk. It's pretty easy to tell when it's real versus not, though I would never second-guess them. Obscure details that would be unlikely to make up. Not all flattering. I've only run across one that I thought was getting into tall tales, and I just nodded and smiled and let them talk.
I've also learned that some crazy job changes were possible back then. My dad ended up being voluntold to man a teletype overnight because they were short on staff. He decided he liked that job a whole lot better than what he had been doing, and said so to the NCO in charge. Next thing you know he was in a completely different area and job. My FIL did similar, ended up in a job that led to a career exec in an aerospace firm, all based on a casual, temporary assignment.
I recently "interviewed" both my dad and father-in-law to try to capture some of that history. Both still have their paperwork. If you have older relatives that served, it's good to capture that background while you can.
Sadly I can remember a time if you wore a Special Forces, Navy SEALs or SAS shirt or cap most people understood you weren't trying to pass yourself off as anything anymore than somebody with an NFL shirt is trying to claim they play for a team. Hell people actually wear authentic team jerseys and everyone knows they don't really play for that team. Every time I see a guy with a Navy Seal shirt I assume he was never even in the military. It's "fan gear" and nothing more.
As i kid I wore militaria stuff, often gotten from a (old school legit) Army Navy type store. I also had some medals some WWII vets had given me they'd taken off Germans and such. I viewed that as a "support the troops" and don't forget that war kinda thing, having had multiple people in famility served in WWII. As I got older, people would ask if I had served and so forth, and it just didn't seem appropriate to wear and or answer Qs. Few times had older people get offended. That was way before the the chronic butt hurt snow flake crap we are dealing with now.
The only thing I will wear now is stuff I can explain/justify without worrying or carrying about butt hurt. I wear a UDT-SEAL Museum T shirt on occasion for example. If it does not have the "museum" part, I will not wear it. I still get asked on occasion if i was a SEAL, and i can say no, but I work there once a week, and then use that as an opening to tell them what a historically important and cool place it is, etc. I have a few shirts given to me by the LE tac teams I worked with, or did seminars for, etc. and can say "im not a cop but did X, Y, Z" type thing.
And this is a perfect example of why "Family Initiated Stolen Valor" is so easy.
My Father just confirmed to me he was with the 101st at Fort Sill in his Artillery Training.
I had always thought it was Bragg.
Easy enough to mix up after not talking about it for a few years I suppose.
It would not be "Stolen Valor." "Stolen Valor" is claiming military service--any military service--in an attempt to gain some benefit. The extreme is the lying, claiming to be a fill-in-the-blank, which is the douchiest of all douche bag moves.
The evolution of a family member's service over the years and decades is kinda natural...memories fade, details become lost. It happens.
It would not be "Stolen Valor." "Stolen Valor" is claiming military service--any military service--in an attempt to gain some benefit. The extreme is the lying, claiming to be a fill-in-the-blank, which is the douchiest of all douche bag moves.
The evolution of a family member's service over the years and decades is kinda natural...memories fade, details become lost. It happens.
What worse, the person who was in the service but invents details and such that never happened like the OP, or someone who never served and claims they did? I lean toward the former as I feel like they should know better.
If I ever go off on a fit and decide to commit Stolen Valor....
I would dress up in convincing power armor and run up to random people speaking "CitySpeak" demanding Elerium 137 and a RadioCat to speak with "See-All" to report my "CombatKill Status" against the "SpiderLords"
Even do up a weird flag patch that mixes the Chinese and American one.
I figure if you gon lie....at least be amusing.
"I NO PEEP "GOLDEN CORRAL". EAT FOODTUBE FRUM EMMAREE. GET CHARGE UP. MURDERKILL SPIDERLORDS"
What worse, the person who was in the service but invents details and such that never happened like the OP,
As a semi-humorous aside, some hunters have that problem. One old gentleman was speaking of the buck he had shot on opening day. One of his cronies remarked that it was not a large buck. The old man replied 'give it time, I just shot it yesterday.'
Diamondback
11-11-17, 10:24
If I ever go off on a fit and decide to commit Stolen Valor....
I would dress up in convincing power armor and run up to random people speaking "CitySpeak" demanding Elerium 137 and a RadioCat to speak with "See-All" to report my "CombatKill Status" against the "SpiderLords"
Even do up a weird flag patch that mixes the Chinese and American one.
I figure if you gon lie....at least be amusing.
"I NO PEEP "GOLDEN CORRAL". EAT FOODTUBE FRUM EMMAREE. GET CHARGE UP. MURDERKILL SPIDERLORDS"
Anybody wanna place bets on how long it'd take before Firefly got his own room at the Rubber Walls Hilton in that scenario? LOL
When I was a teenager my father thought I needed some direction in my life so he signed my up for some kind of youth program with the Israeli military. Basically I spent a few months with a bunch of other misguided youths cleaning up army bases in Israel. Literal cleaning. My "rifle' was a mop. It was the worst/best experience of my life. It lasted a summer and that was the extent of my military career. The closest I came to operating operationally was cleaning out some tanks after exercises. Up to that moment I never gave a thought as to how the soldiers went to the bathroom in a tank...
Once in a while a soldier took pity on me and threw me a souvenir. Along with a healthy dose of humility, I came back home with a few shirts and a hat. When I came home my father looked at me in my army shirt and hat and said "Oy Vey! Another Commando!" I didn't get it at the time, but a few years later I started wearing the hat on occasion and more than once someone asked me about my "service". I proudly exclaimed that I was the Top Civilian Expert in the Israeli Military on Custodial Maneuvers and Off-Theater Clean-Up. Once in a while someone would ask if I was a commando or a general. I didn't get it until my father explained that very rarely will an Israeli soldier admit he was just a soldier. They are almost always special operations, a general or sometimes even both. I didn't really get it but thought it was pretty funny.
A few years later I started becoming more involved in Friends of the IDF helping them raise funds for scholarships for retired soldiers. Finally someone in the organization explained to me that, for my father's generation at least, this was to either:
a. Impress women.
b. Keep people from asking more questions.
Anyways, that's my crappy valor story. It's probably funnier in person.
There was a book published almost 20 years ago that is the first definitive study of this topic with respect to the Vietnam War: Stolen Valor, by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.
For anyone interested, it is a fascinating and well documented read.
There was a book published almost 20 years ago that is the first definitive study of this topic with respect to the Vietnam War: Stolen Valor, by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.
For anyone interested, it is a fascinating and well documented read.
It's depressing to realize that book is now 20 years old.
Depending on when they served, some crazy sounding movements are possible. Korea to immediate post VN saw many "Regiments" (Really Battalions?) shuffled around between Divisions (101st, 82nd, 2ID, etc). If in more than the minimum, serving in two different divisions is pretty common, and 3 is not unusual. Even more movement at Brigade level.
All without transferring a single time. Especially in combined arms type situations. My impression is that similar happened when the current BCT thing was put in place.
My dad served in 3 different units in the Korean era (Army guard, then federalized to an USAF unit, then reorg'd to another USAF unit). Never transferred once.
Thanks for these extra details! That would make sense. I am very interested to receive his paperwork and medals. Thank you all for your help and conversation on this topic. I have learned more about my father's military career in a couple days than the rest of my life.
It would not be "Stolen Valor." "Stolen Valor" is claiming military service--any military service--in an attempt to gain some benefit. The extreme is the lying, claiming to be a fill-in-the-blank, which is the douchiest of all douche bag moves.
The evolution of a family member's service over the years and decades is kinda natural...memories fade, details become lost. It happens.
I know the situation I presented was minuscule, I just thought it could easily happen along the way.
Nonetheless, I can certainly agree with your definition, and makes me not feel so weird about getting the details a little off at the start.
Depending on when they served, some crazy sounding movements are possible. Korea to immediate post VN saw many "Regiments" (Really Battalions?) shuffled around between Divisions (101st, 82nd, 2ID, etc). If in more than the minimum, serving in two different divisions is pretty common, and 3 is not unusual. Even more movement at Brigade level.
All without transferring a single time. Especially in combined arms type situations. My impression is that similar happened when the current BCT thing was put in place.
My dad served in 3 different units in the Korean era (Army guard, then federalized to an USAF unit, then reorg'd to another USAF unit). Never transferred once.
I happen to be around older gentleman couple times a week. Majority of them served in some form, either in Korea or Vietnam or in between. Very few wear or even have the swag, and you wouldn't know unless it comes up in conversation. Yesterday one of them brought in pictures, and there was a lot of discussion.
I always ask when they joined, where they went, what you do, what was it like, just to get them to talk. Track mechanic in Germany. Clerk sent immediately to South Korea, etc. Mundane, and they we're thrilled to get that post rather than the alternatives (VN, usually).
One guy turned out to be K9 Handler in Vietnam. Drafted, then happened to have transferred to my son's current unit, so gave him a hat pin I had picked up for a couple of bucks while visiting his post. He got a little teary-eyed, and mentioned that he's just got back in contact with the Scout dog Association, and was hoping to find pictures of himself or buddies in country or at least his dog. I've dug up some links for him, etc.
I let them talk. It's pretty easy to tell when it's real versus not, though I would never second-guess them. Obscure details that would be unlikely to make up. Not all flattering. I've only run across one that I thought was getting into tall tales, and I just nodded and smiled and let them talk.
I've also learned that some crazy job changes were possible back then. My dad ended up being voluntold to man a teletype overnight because they were short on staff. He decided he liked that job a whole lot better than what he had been doing, and said so to the NCO in charge. Next thing you know he was in a completely different area and job. My FIL did similar, ended up in a job that led to a career exec in an aerospace firm, all based on a casual, temporary assignment.
I recently "interviewed" both my dad and father-in-law to try to capture some of that history. Both still have their paperwork. If you have older relatives that served, it's good to capture that background while you can.
During the Gulf War my unit, Bravo Company, 1st Battalion 25th Marines was with three divisions. The 4th, 2nd & 1st. That was in less than six month time period.
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