View Full Version : 75th Anniversary of Operation Torch
Today is the 75th Anniversary of Operation Torch, the Allied Invasion of North Africa.
Much of my knowledge regarding Operation Torch comes from reading Rick Atkinson's book, An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942-1943 which is the first book in his series The Liberation Trilogy.
Other books in the series are: The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 and The Guns at Last Light: The War in Europe, 1944-1945. I heartily recommend that everyone read this series.
Here is an interesting, short, piece on Operation Torch and the politics leading to the first battle-test of American troops in the 'European' Theatre: https://warontherocks.com/2017/11/16075/
GERONIMO!
https://i.imgur.com/uxoitn6.jpg
Displayed proudly on the wall of my dining room.
GERONIMO!
https://i.imgur.com/uxoitn6.jpg
Displayed proudly on the wall of my dining room.
That’s badass dude.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
While we ultimately prevailed, Torch eventually gave us Kasserine Pass, one of the worst defeats in U.S. Army history. The North African campaign is one you don't hear much about. I like to think I know my military history fairly well but that AO is not much in my memory locker.
While we ultimately prevailed, Torch eventually gave us Kasserine Pass, one of the worst defeats in U.S. Army history. The North African campaign is one you don't hear much about. I like to think I know my military history fairly well but that AO is not much in my memory locker.
It's a campaign that I had never even heard of until I was in the Army. Much like how the Pacific campaign is rarely talked about outside of the Marine Corps, the African campaign is truly forgotten about.
That’s badass dude.
https://i.imgur.com/HiN5ACM.jpg
And on the other side of the same wall...the Dietz print from my small time contributing to the history of the 509th.
MountainRaven
11-08-17, 21:46
It's a campaign that I had never even heard of until I was in the Army. Much like how the Pacific campaign is rarely talked about outside of the Marine Corps, the African campaign is truly forgotten about.
https://i.imgur.com/HiN5ACM.jpg
And on the other side of the same wall...the Dietz print from my small time contributing to the history of the 509th.
What about CBI? At least North Africa got Patton. I don't think there's been a movie, TV show, or video game (or any other media) to portray events in the CBI theater since The Flying Tigers - which came out in 1942.
What about CBI?
The only thing I know about Burma was the work of Merrill's Marauders. I really need to read up on my history more.
Good point...China/Burma/India theater is an unfortunately overlooked campaign as well.
The only thing I know about Burma was the work of Merrill's Marauders. I really need to read up on my history more.
Good point...China/Burma/India theater is an unfortunately overlooked campaign as well.
Check out "The Marauders" by Charleton Ogburn. Probably one of the best war books ever written. I used to keep a copy of this picture on my office wall to remind me that however bad things were, they had been even worse in Burma! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Stilwell_awarding_medals.jpg
My Grand dad served in N Africa during WW2. He was a colonel and flew B-24's. When I was young, I was almost disappointed because all I knew about WW2 was Iwo Jima and D-Day and he spent his time in Libya and Palestine and bombing Italy and Crete. It wasn't until I fully grasped the scale of WW2 and thy dynamics of the Axis when I fully started to appreciate and became impressed about his service in Africa.
What about CBI? At least North Africa got Patton. I don't think there's been a movie, TV show, or video game (or any other media) to portray events in the CBI theater since The Flying Tigers - which came out in 1942.
Merrill's Marauders is a 1962 Cinemascope war film directed and co-written by Samuel Fuller based on the exploits of the long range penetration jungle warfare unit of the same name in the Burma Campaign, culminating in the Siege of Myitkyina.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056234/
Also, Bridge Over the River Kwai. Granted, not as full of win as Patton.
See my post above--That movie was allegedly based on Ogburn's book, but you'd never know it.
As to the CBI, General Joseph W. Stilwell ("Vinegar Joe") was the nominal American commander expected to do everything with nothing. He was colorful, to say the least; a general who carried a rifle and spoke his mind at all times. Barbara Tuchman's "Stilwell and The American Experience In China" is good. His diaries are lively reading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stilwell
Stilwell on Chiang Kai-Shek (whom he loathed):
I have waited long for vengeance,
At last I’ve had my chance.
I’ve looked the Peanut in the eye
And kicked him in the pants.
The old harpoon was ready
With aim and timing true,
I sank it to the handle,
And stung him through and through.
The little bastard shivered,
And lost the power of speech.
His face turned green and quivered
As he struggled not to screech.
For all my weary battles,
For all my hours of woe,
At last I've had my innings
And laid the Peanut low.
I know I've still to suffer,
And run a weary race,
But oh! the blessed pleasure!
I've wrecked the Peanut's face.
— Poem written by Joseph Stilwell in 1944
nightchief
11-09-17, 07:49
The movie "The Big Red One" (Lee Marvin and Mark Hammil before his auto accident) has a portion about Torch. They amphibiously land in Morocco and the Vichy French are debating whether to engage or surrender. I really liked this movie when I was a kid. I haven't seen it in a long time though.
sundance435
11-09-17, 08:14
The movie "The Big Red One" (Lee Marvin and Mark Hammil before his auto accident) has a portion about Torch. They amphibiously land in Morocco and the Vichy French are debating whether to engage or surrender. I really liked this movie when I was a kid. I haven't seen it in a long time though.
Yeah, little remembered is that some Vichy frogs actually fired on the landing forces in Morocco and actively resisted, until the scale of the invasion was apparent. "Line in the Sand" is a good companion read for what the British and French were doing in N. Africa and the Middle East during WWII. I admit, my knowledge of the American involvement in N. Africa is woefully inadequate - I have "An Army at Dawn", I've just never gotten around to reading it.
Stilwell on Chiang Kai-Shek (whom he loathed):
I’ve looked the Peanut in the eye
And kicked him in the pants.
I sank it to the handle,
And stung him through and through.
At last I've had my innings
And laid the Peanut low.
But oh! the blessed pleasure!
I've wrecked the Peanut's face.
— Poem written by Joseph Stilwell in 1944
Are you familiar with the history? Was this after he gave C-K-S President Rossevelt's letter telling C-K-S to turn command of all Chinese troops over to Stillwell or suffer the loss of all American support? Didn't that back-fire on him (Stilwell) ending in his relief?
crusader377
11-09-17, 13:09
IMO, the North African campaign was one of the most important campaigns for the United States in WWII because it is where the U.S. Army learned to fight and the Army learned from many painful lessons which made the U.S. Army much more successful later in the war. The late 1942/early 1943 U.S. Army in terms of training and doctrine wasn't ready for primetime and fortunately learned lessons which drastically improved the effectiveness of the Army by the time it landed in Normandy in June 6th, 1944.
"Didn't that back-fire on him (Stilwell) ending in his relief?"
Yep. FDR and the Joint Chiefs, prior to the successful testing of the atomic bomb, weren't sure they could do without CKS, corrupt and inefficient as he was, in the expected long haul against Japan. All the options were bad, and relieving Stillwell the least bad one.
It's notable that George Marshall held Stillwell, eccentricities and all, in very high esteem.
LMT Shooter
11-09-17, 19:26
IMO, the North African campaign was one of the most important campaigns for the United States in WWII because it is where the U.S. Army learned to fight and the Army learned from many painful lessons which made the U.S. Army much more successful later in the war. The late 1942/early 1943 U.S. Army in terms of training and doctrine wasn't ready for primetime and fortunately learned lessons which drastically improved the effectiveness of the Army by the time it landed in Normandy in June 6th, 1944.
I can't remember where, but I recall reading that this was actually one of the reasons we went to North Africa first, before invading Europe. Africa was strategically unimportant, but a good place to get American military command and troops who would later be doing the fighting in Europe some real world experience against the men, equipment and tactics of Germany , which the Allies were lacking.
I can't remember where, but I recall reading that this was actually one of the reasons we went to North Africa first. It was strategically unimportant, but a good place to get American military command and troops some real world experience, which was lacking.
Army troops, as well as Marines, were getting their baptism of fire in the Pacific during the same timeframe. Forces in both theaters would mostly remain committed to their respective AO's for the duration but the U.S. military was nonetheless learning on two fronts at once.
While we ultimately prevailed, Torch eventually gave us Kasserine Pass, one of the worst defeats in U.S. Army history. The North African campaign is one you don't hear much about. I like to think I know my military history fairly well but that AO is not much in my memory locker.
Well it began with the Vichy French firing on us when we landed in French North Africa. Of course that probably shouldn't be too surprising.
Over 1,000 US and UK dead so that we could one day liberate France.
eightmillimeter
11-25-17, 12:19
I went ahead and grabbed a copy of “An Army at Dawn” knowing I’d be home for a while to read (new kiddo). Just finished and it was excellent. I will be getting the other two books.
Thank you for posting this. My grandfather fought in North Africa and Italy while in the US Army in WW2.
What about CBI? At least North Africa got Patton. I don't think there's been a movie, TV show, or video game (or any other media) to portray events in the CBI theater since The Flying Tigers - which came out in 1942.
Check out "Objective Burma" with Errol Flynn.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037954/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_34
Yeah, the Flying Tigers don't get talked about much anymore. I read a book on them years ago, but forget the title. Of course "God is my Co-pilot" was probably the most famous book/movie, written by one of the pilots, Robert L. Scott. I also read a book by another AVG pilot, Don Lopez, but I forget the name.
HardToHandle
11-25-17, 22:31
Army troops, as well as Marines, were getting their baptism of fire in the Pacific during the same timeframe. Forces in both theaters would mostly remain committed to their respective AO's for the duration but the U.S. military was nonetheless learning on two fronts at once.
The 34th Division formed a large part of the Task Force that got rolled at the Kasserine Pass. Fascinating story of inexperienced troops put in a bad place by lousy leadership running into tactically proficient Afrika Korps in a night battle.
The AARs of the series of Kasserine battles truly built the US Army that continued the war onto the Elbe. Some of the lessons subtly learned was the role of good junior officers and NCOs - many of the best small unit leaders were stripped out to form the Rangers before the units went to North Africa.
Lest we forget the terrible cost, this vignette says it all - http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/artifact/world-war-ii-and-home-front-rex-holmes . The overrun units had been mostly Guard - huge amount of casualties for small towns.
Operations in North Africa and the Middle East 1942-1944: El Alamein, Tunisia, Algeria and Operation Torch (Despatches from the Front) (https://www.amazon.com/Operations-North-Africa-Middle-1942-1944/dp/B01K3I9ULI/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511672318&sr=1-1&keywords=Operations+in+North+Africa+and+the+Middle+East+1942-1944%3A+El+Alamein%2C+Tunisia%2C+Algeria+and+Operation+Torch+%28Despatches+from+the+Front%29)
Probably the best book out on Operation Torch.
Another solid read that covers the SAS involvement in OT is Rogue Heroes: The History of the SAS (https://www.amazon.com/Rogue-Heroes-History-Britains-Sabotaged/dp/B01KKNO7K0/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511672694&sr=1-1&keywords=rogue+heroes)
MountainRaven
11-25-17, 23:57
I can't remember where, but I recall reading that this was actually one of the reasons we went to North Africa first, before invading Europe. Africa was strategically unimportant, but a good place to get American military command and troops who would later be doing the fighting in Europe some real world experience against the men, equipment and tactics of Germany , which the Allies were lacking.
An Army At Dawn does into better detail about it, but the short version is that the US wanted to go for the jugular and launch an amphibious landing in Normandy ASAP. However, the US had to acknowledge that they simply didn't have the logistical capability to launch an assault on Northern France in Spring 1942 and the soonest it would be a plausible option would be Spring 1943. However, Churchill wanted to defend the UK's access to her overseas possessions, much of which flowed through the Mediterranean and the Suez - and to continue to slowly suffocate the German war machine. In the US, 1942 was an election year and both the President and Congress wanted serious action taken before the election, to show that they were taking positive action against the Germans and Japanese.
So with the UK as the senior partner (and the US as the junior partner), the UK's desire to protect their supply lines to/from India and the Pacific and to prevent the Germans from evading the Allied embargo of the Axis, the desire of American politicians to appear to their constituents to be doing something, the promise that it would be a good shake-down run for France, and the shear impossibility of any landing in France until 1943, the US Army agreed to land in North Africa.
And throughout much of the campaign in North Africa, there was a significant amount of pressure on the US Army combat units to get the job done as fast as they could, so they could stage in the UK for an invasion of France in 1943 (including from Uncle Joe, who wanted the Western Allies to open a second front in Europe ASAP - and Uncle Joe didn't consider North Africa or Italy to be a second front).
Of course, the landings didn't occur until after the election, so the American politicians didn't get the landfall they were hoping for from the operation's military successes, and combat in North African didn't end until May of 1943 - far too late for the Allies to launch their invasion of France that year without the forces tied up in the fighting in North Africa (because logistics).
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