View Full Version : Feinstein at it again (again). AWB 2017.
HackerF15E
11-08-17, 17:03
http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/08/sen-feinsteins-new-assault-weapons-ban-p
For those who want to see something done, Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) has done something. Along with more than 20 fellow Senate Democrats, Feinstein announced on Wednesday the re-introduction of a bill to ban so-called "assault weapons" and those bump stocks that took so much of the blame for last month's massacre in Las Vegas.
I think more people would be saved if we just ban lazy government agents who forget to do their jobs and get people killed. But then what do I know.
Doc Safari
11-08-17, 17:06
How old is she? Isn't it time she retired already?
Yo: Di-Fi--the 1990's called and they want their anti-gun bills back.
How old is she? Isn't it time she died already?
Yo: Di-Fi--the 1990's called and they want their anti-gun bills back.
FIFY.
Moose-Knuckle
11-08-17, 18:24
Ah yes, one of the top ten wealthiest law makers. Consider she's been a public official for the past 39 years, I think she drew up another ban when the last one sun set, modified of course and this one will not have a sun set option and nothing will be grandfathered from my understanding.
Potentially making tens of millions of Americans felons with the stroke of a pen.
She should be the one that goes door to door to collect Mr. and Mrs. America's guns.
Outlander Systems
11-08-17, 18:35
I think, while we're at it, we need some common sense prime number control laws.
How old is she? Isn't it time she retired already?
Yo: Di-Fi--the 1990's called and they want their anti-gun bills back.
Retire to a dirt nap and I wouldn't shed a tear.
Ah yes, one of the top ten wealthiest law makers. Consider she's been a public official for the past 39 years, I think she drew up another ban when the last one sun set, modified of course and this one will not have a sun set option and nothing will be grandfathered from my understanding.
Potentially making tens of millions of Americans felons with the stroke of a pen.
She should be the one that goes door to door to collect Mr. and Mrs. America's guns.
Yeah well, good luck with that. :rolleyes:
How old is she? Isn't it time she retired already?
Yo: Di-Fi--the 1990's called and they want their anti-gun bills back.
Yeah really, I can't wait for the thud....the sound of her falling over graveyard dead. It'll be a great day!
NYH1.
and nothing will be grandfathered from my understanding.
The one I read did not call for taking what’s already out there but it’s possible I read it wrong or it was incorrect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Diamondback
11-08-17, 19:22
Yo, Hacker! Long time no see from THR, bro!
Yup, this is just her schtick... she's gonna keep trying every session, regular as clockwork, until the Man Downstairs calls to collect on her contract.
Probably shouldn't post my opinions about what should happen to Feinstein.
Probably shouldn't post my opinions about what should happen to Feinstein.
Awe come on!
NYH1.
Probably shouldn't post my opinions about what should happen to Feinstein.
Awe come on!
NYH1.
https://youtu.be/wlwnbcxBuzI
Im all ears Steyr. :-)
horseman234
11-09-17, 06:29
Some details from bearingarms.com:
48514
48515
https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2017/11/08/feinstein-company-introduce-new-assault-weapon-ban-bill/
Dist. Expert 26
11-09-17, 09:43
We all know this is going nowhere.
Know what though, I think it would be great for them to pass something like this. Make us all felons. Suppressed, fully automatic SBRs will be the only way I roll from there on out. Maybe with a grenade launcher slung underneath if I can find one.
We would become the new illegal immigrants. A problem too big to really deal with.
She dusts off the same old tired crap every time there's a tragedy and resubmits it with a new number and maybe a line or two changed to say it's new. Yawn...
Some details from bearingarms.com:
48514
48515
https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2017/11/08/feinstein-company-introduce-new-assault-weapon-ban-bill/
Are you sure this isn't a marketing ploy?
Key Provisions: Bans by Name: Owners may keep existing weapons; Bans by characteristics: Owners may keep existing weapons; Bans magazines: Owners may keep existing magazines.
Exemptions: Grandfather clause: Exempts all weapons legally possessed at the time of enactment.
I'm thinking Senator Feinstein is going to be the next NSSF Firearms and Accessory Salesman of the Year
Evel Baldgui
11-09-17, 12:30
The bills submitted should not be taken lightly,, 20 liberal congress members are backing her, more on the horizon, and a few RINO's will most likely sign on as well. I will contact my congressmen and senators and vehemently express my disgust with Feinstein and company for promoting such useless legislation; I will contact the NRA and hopefully they will begin to lobby against this nonsense if they haven't started already. I believe most on this forum adhere to the "never underestimate your enemy" cliché; well lets not. Get friends, family, like minded neighbors to contact their representatives as well; another incident, another democrat in office, is a danger to our 2A rights.
The bills submitted should not be taken lightly,, 20 liberal congress members are backing her, more on the horizon, and a few RINO's will most likely sign on as well. I will contact my congressmen and senators and vehemently express my disgust with Feinstein and company for promoting such useless legislation; I will contact the NRA and hopefully they will begin to lobby against this nonsense if they haven't started already. I believe most on this forum adhere to the "never underestimate your enemy" cliché; well lets not. Get friends, family, like minded neighbors to contact their representatives as well; another incident, another democrat in office, is a danger to our 2A rights.
Agreed. We shouldn't just hope or let these die. We should actively kill them. And with prejudice. Make damn sure the polidicks know where those who vote stand.
QuickStrike
11-09-17, 12:47
Lol, I thought that broad died already?
Lol, I thought that broad died already?
Negative. The good die young. Assholes, though, assholes live for-****ing-ever.
We all know this is going nowhere.
Know what though, I think it would be great for them to pass something like this. Make us all felons. Suppressed, fully automatic SBRs will be the only way I roll from there on out. Maybe with a grenade launcher slung underneath if I can find one.
We would become the new illegal immigrants. A problem too big to really deal with.
Maybe some states would create "sanctuary cities" for us in defiance of federal law!
Dist. Expert 26
11-09-17, 14:13
Maybe some states would create "sanctuary cities" for us in defiance of federal law!
We could even have commercials with Sarah McLaughlin songs!
Donate to a poor, victimized gun owner today and receive a free fridge magnet!
Breaking on FOX news now that the DoD OIG has known and reported since 1997 that ALL DoD components have failed to report disqualifying crimes. In the 1997 report, the Navy failed to report 94% of the time, Army 79% and Air Force 50%. Lord only knows how many thousands of gun purchases that should've been denied by the NICS system were approved.
Heads should roll across the board for this.
BTW, Senator Dianne Feinstein is a RANKING MEMBER of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, which has broad jurisdiction that would include NICS reporting. What has she done about these failures to report disqualifying crimes for the past TWO DECADES?
I doubt Feinstein actually cares about gun violence, she cares about keeping her gravy political job. This is a dog and pony show.
Breaking on FOX news now that the DoD OIG has known and reported since 1997 that ALL DoD components have failed to report disqualifying crimes. In the 1997 report, the Navy failed to report 94% of the time, Army 79% and Air Force 50%. Lord only knows how many thousands of gun purchases that should've been denied by the NICS system were approved.
Heads should roll across the board for this.
BTW, Senator Dianne Feinstein is a RANKING MEMBER of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, which has broad jurisdiction that would include NICS reporting. What has she done about these failures to report disqualifying crimes for the past TWO DECADES?
GUN GATE.
Breaking News Feinstein guilty of oversight failures that allows prohibited persons to obtain firearms. Why isn't THAT all over the evening news?!?
Does anyone have a link to that? I have tried Google, Fox and DOD OIG and can't find it.
ETA: Just found it on Military Times:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/p...-for-20-years/
Just on biology alone, most of us will be here in 20 years and Feinswine wont.
This too shall pass
GUN GATE.
Breaking News Feinstein guilty of oversight failures that allows prohibited persons to obtain firearms. Why isn't THAT all over the evening news?!?Yes indeed! She should resign in shame for all the crimes that have been allowed. Victims should line up for compensation!
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Just on biology alone, most of us will be here in 20 years and Feinswine wont.
This too shall pass
So might legislation in the meantime. And there are plenty of "ban gun" idiots in Congress to take her place.
Don't you ever get tired of the drip, drip, drip of threats of bans, new gun legislation, talk of this, leaks of that.............?
At some point, why not just tell us we can't own military style semi-automatic sporting firearms and let's be done with it. Bring it to a head and see what happens. Sometimes all this creeping incremental stuff just gets old. Get it all out in the open and let's get the party going. Of course voluntary surrender, attempts at confiscation or variations thereof are not in the cards for me, but I am accustomed to making things happen, or dealing with issues directly that come my way, so I am just getting tired of hearing about it.
turnburglar
11-09-17, 23:51
Just on biology alone, most of us will be here in 20 years and Feinswine wont.
This too shall pass
Too bad laws don't die with their creators....
I think thats the scary part
Don't you ever get tired of the drip, drip, drip of threats of bans, new gun legislation, talk of this, leaks of that.............?
No other class of American has to tolerate that daily BS either. Yes, I damn sure do get tired of it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-17, 00:28
The bill is a great example of how the dems do a great job of taking what they can get, and then turning around and asking for more- over and over. Until they get as much as they can, and then they turn around and ask for more....
Moose-Knuckle
11-10-17, 03:14
I had a talk with my EBRs today . . .
None of them identify as an "assault rifle" and feel mis-gendered.
Each and everyone of them told me they identify as a sporting Fudd gun.
BoringGuy45
11-10-17, 07:25
The bill is a great example of how the dems do a great job of taking what they can get, and then turning around and asking for more- over and over. Until they get as much as they can, and then they turn around and ask for more....
And that's why we won't budge. We know that the definition of "assault weapons" will soon include things like pump action shotguns, all semiauto rifles regardless of evil features or mag capacity, and soon bolt and lever action weapons, semiauto handguns, then revolvers.
That's why I'm not impressed with GOP candidates who campaign about reaching across the aisle on ANYTHING. Because the left's definition of "compromise" is "march into the showers and don't ask any questions."
Between spending a lot of time outside here in the rural American outback, I like to checkout different sites to see what the left is up to. It's not just ANTIA or Occupy types, but the average American democrat is actually going way off the rails to the fringe left. When you have a chance, check out a Hate Meme generating site on FB called Michelle Obama for President 2020. I won't hotlink to it but it is just filled with seething rage. I have some friends that will troll there and stir it up a little.
I have come to the conclusion that the democrat party is filled with ghouls who actually hope for these mass shootings. Every time it happens, it gives them more ammunition to push gun owners back against the wall and disarm us in the debate, and work to disarm us literally. I would not be surprised that at some point, these mass shootings could be allowed, engineered and supported by our political, and now social enemies. I am no conspiracy type, but I think these ghouls are actually capable of this. Just my humble opinion.
Dionysusigma
11-11-17, 18:50
GUN GATE.
Can we all just stop adding -"gate" at the end of every scandal? It hasn't made any sense since WatergateGate.
Can we all just stop adding -"gate" at the end of every scandal? It hasn't made any sense since WatergateGate.
I actually agree. Although "we" are rarely guilty of the practice.
BoringGuy45
11-12-17, 01:20
Can we all just stop adding -"gate" at the end of every scandal? It hasn't made any sense since WatergateGate.
1000 times over agree. I'm not usually one to pull a George Carlin and rip apart common idioms and expressions, but the "gate" thing is one of my pet peeves. Just call it the "[Something] Scandal". (Not directed at your, SteyrAUG. Mostly the stupid media that constantly uses the gate thing).
The anti gun, anti 2A, anti Liberty types are starting to show their true colors now, and that's a good thing in my view. It's exactly what we want to see from them: open call for confiscations and not even pretending otherwise "just want 'sensible' gun control." What they want and always have is full confiscation and the more people that guy push for it the better for those who know what their true agenda is and the C word used without reservation here. One reason I left MA a few years ago...
Hand over your weapons
In the AFTERMATH of the Texas church shooting last week, Democratic lawmakers did what they always do: They skewered their Republican colleagues for offering only “thoughts and prayers,” and demanded swift action on gun control.
“The time is now,” said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, “for Congress to shed its cowardly cover and do something.”
Trouble is, it’s not clear the “something” Democrats typically demand would make a real dent in the nation’s epidemic of gun violence. Congress can ban assault weapons, but they account for just a tiny sliver of the country’s 33,000 annual firearm deaths. And tighter background checks will do nothing to cut down on the 310 million guns already in circulation.
Cont:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/11/10/hand-over-your-weapons/6IxJLanMKGak7RvCLipwbN/story.html#comments
titsonritz
11-12-17, 19:54
Nope, come get 'em, be sure to pack a lunch.
Nope, come get 'em, be sure to pack a lunch.
Why pack the lunch?
Unless you planning on eating their lunch, at which point dude, the hell. I can't stand kale.
BoringGuy45
11-12-17, 20:01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABQQHwf4sYA
platoonDaddy
11-12-17, 20:06
Nope, come get 'em, be sure to pack a lunch.
My friend lived in Jersey when they banned all Colt AR-15's, therefore few options available. Since all of his firearms were registered by law in his home town, he shipped it out of state.
When the time came to shit or get off the pot, he caved. As a business owner and long time resident of the town, he didn't fight the ban. Not sure what other owners of AR15's did, don't recall any issues.
Diamondback
11-12-17, 21:11
Nice thing about eighty-percents... "Guns? What guns? All my registered receivers were sold years ago... I reassembled my old service rifle's parts onto a dummy, which I keep for sentimental reasons and you can't have because ATF says it's NOT A GUN."
And all you need, assuming you don't mind polymer lowers, is a jig and a cordless drill... :D Though for 7075-T6, a drill-press or a router might be better power-tool choices.
EDIT to note, for us in Washington and Oregon, this discussion may be moving from "theoretical" into "practical" a lot sooner than anybody here thinks--Oregon is basically fast-tracking into Suckadickifornia Norte, and Washington just lost the ONE state Senate seat that stood between the Dems and unfettered, absolute power.
You cant even quell Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, North Korea, Somalia, or stop the numerous border hoppers from 3rd world countries.
Really not scared. I'm actually amused.
If they were really going to do it, it would have happened.
Chicago has strict laws. 600+ murders.
Ho Hum
ETA I'll go a step further....
per the Australian Buyback...
well.....guns, including ARs, are very much obtainable. A few more hoops, a lot more money, but certainly obtainable.
Australia is, or was, pretty homogenous like England once was. Homogenous societies dont feel totally threatened by one another and likewise dont mind submitting to authority. Because they ARE the authority.
America....
oh boy. We are a nation of strangers. We are this sick, dysfunctional superpower of angry, fat 8th graders who get pissed when netflix takes away a show we've seen a million times.
Publicly we champion cause of the week concepts like "integration", "equality", "acceptance", etc. But then we self segregate much like the fat 8th graders we are at the lunch table. We only integrate for sex, money, services, or a rip off. They can show all the mixed commercials on TV they like but in real life if you are in a mixed relationship you still get stares and people still get mad.
We hate our government, hate our police, and we hate ourselves. If we had a Civil War it would make Yugoslavia and Vietnam look like a Comedy of Manners.
I had someone say "The world is laughing at us over Trump". Nope. The world is teetotaling scared shitless.
Waco was a shit show. Imagine thousands of Wacos with bodycounts, doesnt matter who.
Yeah some normies MIGHT turn in their grandpas shotgun.
But everybody else will either ignore, hide their stuff, or say eff it and go full Turner Diaries.
YOU CANT EVEN CONTROL ANTIFA. College kids who smoke dope all day. Then the crazy wannabe militias. Then the very real Latin gangs. Then the mobsters. Then average homeboys.
And your average cop is a sad joke. Oh there are hardcore ghetto gunslingers out there. And they will throw their badge in disgust only for it to be snatched up by some piece of hog shit who was always picked last for kickball because he was a pussy. Or some stupid ass pissant woman or some jive bird diversity hire that made some white guilt review board feel good about.
Boy oh boy are they toe taggers. Not.
Then the zealots who will get gunned down.
300,000 police in the entire US at one time.
To quell 330 MILLION.
The Feds.....hah. They go after the easy people. And even then. Outnumbered.
No.....no the whole concept is stupid, retarded, childish, and impossible.
Guns are already illegal in places with high gun crime.
We have so many guns in this country that it is almost obscene.
You can suggest confiscation just like you can "outlaw" poverty.
We are "governed" by some super out of touch people.
My point isnt to be insulting but....I gotta be real.
But we dont get enough CREDIT. For as big and violent and murderous as we are we are a FAR safer nation than say Russia, Brazil, anywhere in Africa, or wherever.
Its really not that bad. Yeah we have massacres here and there but not quite up to car bombings or Organized Juntas.
Right now there are scores of people who have been repeatedly robbed or raped in these shitholes.
In America, you might be a victim but statistically only once AND you can tool up if you dmfear a round 2.
But thats just my opinion
Diamondback
11-12-17, 22:44
You cant even quell Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, North Korea, Somalia, or stop the numerous border hoppers from 3rd world countries.
Really not scared. I'm actually amused.
If they were really going to do it, it would have happened.
Chicago has strict laws. 600+ murders.
Ho Hum
Hey, when an autistic schmuck like me can knock one together with just a cordless drill and hand tools, you KNOW there's no bottle left to put the genie back into... LOL
Dist. Expert 26
11-12-17, 22:54
More to the point, nobody is going to do it.
Cops know better and have no interest in getting shot for some politician's pipe dream.
The national guard isn't big enough. Neither is the military.
We have more guns in this country than we do people. It would take some Third-Reich level brutality to even begin to change that.
More to the point, nobody is going to do it.
Cops know better and have no interest in getting shot for some politician's pipe dream.
The national guard isn't big enough. Neither is the military.
We have more guns in this country than we do people. It would take some Third-Reich level brutality to even begin to change that.
As per my edit even if you had like a super CommuNazi regime it would be buck and off the chain with heads on sticks and ear necklaces.
Ofc Shaniqua Jones and Ofc. Javier Santilla damn sure aint going to some dudes house for his shit.
Ofc. Craig Heathecote might try because he JUST got out of some stupid hooah class and will get his goofy white boy.ass cut in half by the guy sitting up with oodles of pmags, chainsmoking, steely eyed with his face blacked out, drawing a bead muttering "I knew this shit was going off" as ginger snap tries to "cut the pie" with a high temple index and kryptek bdus because he thinks he is super cop.
I PERSONALLY KNOW Officers who were MURDERED with shotguns amd .380s.
And you wanna sens people with super basic handgunnery to disarm Joe AR15.
Hey what......do a trial run in Chicago. Totally strip it bear. Call it a feasibility trial.
Either way, you better have a lot of body bags.
So....I hate this "We'll send em after ya" talk.
Gee......police are supposed to be trusted a d yet more people want to use them as a weapon.
Give me a ****ing break.....
More to the point, nobody is going to do it.
Cops know better and have no interest in getting shot for some politician's pipe dream.
The national guard isn't big enough. Neither is the military.
We have more guns in this country than we do people. It would take some Third-Reich level brutality to even begin to change that.
But none of that would prevent a Clinton "permaban." They grandfather what is manufactured prior to enactment and pretty soon Colt 6920s are $5,000 rifles. I remember during the Sandy Hook "scare" ARs and AKs pinged $3,000. Once the average person can no longer afford to buy one, gun control advocates declare a victory and then point to legislation they passed in an effort to solve the problem of gun violence by criminals.
And then when it fails to stop criminal use of firearms, they will just trot out some new type of ban that criminals will ignore. In the meantime gun owners will simply adapt to the "letter of the law" and buy neutered rifles with fixed M4 style stocks, no bayo lugs or whatever goofy restrictions are in place.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-13-17, 00:14
We are lucky that we have as gun stupid adversaries as we do. They can't seem to figure out you need the registration first and then titrate back ownership bit by bit- boil the lobster. Instead they go for the whole enchilada. Thank God, in some ways, that they show their hand and game plan. If they shut up about gun bans and magazines, and just went for UBCs as a front to registration, we'd be in a lot worse danger.
Diamondback
11-13-17, 00:19
We are lucky that we have as gun stupid adversaries as we do. They can't seem to figure out you need the registration first and then titrate back ownership bit by bit- boil the lobster. Instead they go for the whole enchilada. Thank God, in some ways, that they show their hand and game plan. If they shut up about gun bans and magazines, and just went for UBCs as a front to registration, we'd be in a lot worse danger.
Which was the previous domino to fall on the Left Coast. This is what makes Bloomberg so dangerous, we who pay attention know the little Napoleon wannabe's end goal for what it is, but he's playing chess going one piece at a time, one state at a time, while Feinstein's amateurish checkers-playing takes our eyes off the real threat, and in the bargain makes Bloomer and the pols and initiative-pushers he buys look "reasonable" to the uninformed by "just wanting this one small compromise."
It was so bad on WA I-594 that until July, just letting a sibling borrow one of your guns, under your supervision, on a range would've on-paper required a BGC each way.
We are lucky that we have as gun stupid adversaries as we do. They can't seem to figure out you need the registration first and then titrate back ownership bit by bit- boil the lobster. Instead they go for the whole enchilada. Thank God, in some ways, that they show their hand and game plan. If they shut up about gun bans and magazines, and just went for UBCs as a front to registration, we'd be in a lot worse danger.
UBCs without a state registration would be meaningless.
When I do a 4473 with FDLE they ask "handgun", "long gun" or "both." They don't get make and model number, no serial numbers or any information like that UNLESS more than one handgun is purchased requiring a multiple handgun purchase form which does include all that information.
But other than that, in FL they don't know if you bought one 870 shotgun or twenty Colt 6920s. That information is not provided to the background agency. And the actual purchaser could turn around and give all them away as Christmas gifts with no background check assuming the recipients aren't prohibited persons.
UBCs will never result in registration unless the state already has it in place. All UBCs will do is require ordinary people to pay the cost of a background check before they do a private sale. It's a revenue generating scam more than anything. Most private sellers will simply transfer guns through a FFL like most people do now and problem solved.
And while technically illegal if UBCs are passed, if somebody does decide to sell old "Uncle Bobs" winchester rifle at his garage sale I don't think anyone is even going to notice.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-13-17, 09:05
Of course UBC are useless. The play is UBCs now and when they don't work, the argument will be that we know when guns are transferred, but we don't know where the millions of guns ARE right now. Without registration (they will undoubtedly come up with a nicer name) we can't really keep guns out of crazy and bad guy hands. We all know UBCs are BS. Scholarly work on the effect in CO has come up with basically no effect. Coupled with the near total lack of prosecution of BGC violations shows that the UBCs are a waypoint, not a destination. I see them passing a law that makes you criminally responsible for stolen guns unless you have them registered- some kind of stick and carrot like that.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 09:12
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-12/mainstream-media-now-promoting-gun-confiscation-orders-solution-mass-shootings
In what many saw coming a mile away in the aftermath of both the Las Vegas Massacre and the Texas Church mass shooting, liberals in the government, with the help of their mainstream media allies, are now pushing what amounts to plans for gun confiscation, outside of normal law, for Americans across the country.
The new push for gun control from the left comes courtesy of ABC News which recently published a piece promoting the use of an Extreme Risk Protection Order (ERPO) that many believe is nothing more than a thinly veiled confiscation plan that would allow a judge to “issue an ex parte order” for the direct confiscation of an American citizens firearms.
Unbelievably, the order can actually be issued without the firearm owner even being present, which would in turn end with police at the citizens door demanding he hand over his weapons or face violence from the state.
The Extreme Risk Protection Orders scheme seems to be nothing more than another attempt at slowly eroding the right of lawful Americans to own firearms.
As AWR Hawkins reported in an April 2017 article about a similar law being pushed in Oregon, “Oregon state Sen. Brian Boquist is pushing a confiscation bill that would broaden the number of prohibited gun purchasers as well as require certain individuals to hand over any guns in their possession.”
At the time, gun rights activist and NRA member Keely Hopkins rightfully described the law as an attempt to remove your Second Amendment rights by using a third-party who would need little evidence to declare you unfit to own a firearm. (Imagine a vengeful ex-wife/husband)
“This bill allows for a protective order to remove your Second Amendment rights, not because of a criminal conviction, but based on third-party allegations using an evidentiary standard that falls far below what’s normally required for the removing of fundamental rights.”
It is also important to note that gun control advocates and the mainstream media are using The Las Vegas Massacre, which the authorities are openly lying about (there were at least 7 different shooters) as a pretext to further take away Americans right to bear arms. This is, and has always been, the modus operandi of the power elite.
My take: It could be an exaggeration to say that this is back door gun confiscation, but then again, laws are often misused (re: property forfeiture laws). It's definitely something to watch.
Diamondback
11-13-17, 09:19
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-12/mainstream-media-now-promoting-gun-confiscation-orders-solution-mass-shootings
My take: It could be an exaggeration to say that this is back door gun confiscation, but then again, laws are often misused (re: property forfeiture laws). It's definitely something to watch.
Doc, those just passed in OR/WA. The standards are low enough that pretty much a ham sandwich can get an Ex Parte order against you...
Diamondback
11-13-17, 09:20
Of course UBC are useless. The play is UBCs now and when they don't work, the argument will be that we know when guns are transferred, but we don't know where the millions of guns ARE right now. Without registration (they will undoubtedly come up with a nicer name) we can't really keep guns out of crazy and bad guy hands. We all know UBCs are BS. Scholarly work on the effect in CO has come up with basically no effect. Coupled with the near total lack of prosecution of BGC violations shows that the UBCs are a waypoint, not a destination. I see them passing a law that makes you criminally responsible for stolen guns unless you have them registered- some kind of stick and carrot like that.
Exactly the kind of chess Bloomingnazi is playing, I'm afraid.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-13-17, 09:22
I don't know what to think of these things. The BHO Social Security thing was way too hot. The Texas shooter showed that set-up was way too cold. We have to have a mechanism for getting guns out of the hands of the truly mentally ill and dangerous. The problem is the Progressives have no credibility when it comes to this because even if done with the best intentions, the fringe will use it to push more. So you end up with us being against anything to stop the slow roll.
I think this would be a back door can't fly, don't buy list- which any serious person sees as nothing but a useless media prop.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 09:24
Doc, those just passed in OR/WA. The standards are low enough that pretty much a ham sandwich can get an Ex Parte order against you...
I hate posting things that put ideas in gun grabbers' heads, but I'm sure they're already working on this: to lower the standards for "prohibited persons" to eventually include ANY kind of infraction even as small as a speeding ticket, for example. Several years ago I remember hearing a discussion on some program about making one DUI enough to get your guns taken away. So this is the liberals' new strategy: if you can't ban the guns ban the gun owners.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-13-17, 09:26
Exactly the kind of chess Bloomingnazi is playing, I'm afraid.
Luckily, here in Colorado, we don't have paved roads, so we can hear the gun grabbers driving down the road to our houses. ;)
Diamondback
11-13-17, 09:27
I hate posting things that put ideas in gun grabbers' heads, but I'm sure they're already working on this: to lower the standards for "prohibited persons" to eventually include ANY kind of infraction even as small as a speeding ticket, for example. Several years ago I remember hearing a discussion on some program about making one DUI enough to get your guns taken away. So this is the liberals' new strategy: if you can't ban the guns ban the gun owners.
Actually, Doc, I believe that to be the exact long-term roadmap they're already using. You can't give 'em an idea they're already working on...
If we *really* want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, the first thing we need to do is reopen the asylums, but Big Pharma will never stand for that.
Dist. Expert 26
11-13-17, 09:41
Again, nobody is going door to door registering guns. Ain't gonna happen.
There are more pressing matters we should be concerned with.
BrigandTwoFour
11-13-17, 10:42
California did this years ago, where almost anyone could go to a judge and present flimsy evidence to have firearms removed. I remember a lot of folks concerned that it would become defacto behavior during divorce cases where the ex wanted to make a show of things. I have no data on how it turned out, though.
The left would absolutely love to keep reducing the standard of what constitutes bannable offenses. Hell, a big chunk of them seem to believe that merely wanting to own an AR makes one mentally and morally questionable enough to be denied.
If only they had access to lists of gun owners.
Again, nobody is going door to door registering guns. Ain't gonna happen.
There are more pressing matters we should be concerned with.
I posted an article via mainstream publication where the author straight up calls for the C word via "mandatory buyback" using Australia as the example of "success." For what ever reason, it appears to have been removed, or perhaps moved to a thread I didn't see it in. The early phases would not have door to door confiscation, but after several waves of mandatory buybacks and such, where the numbers of gun owners reduced far enough, and public opinion swayed enough, I could see that has a possibility of the future. It's not realistic now, but I don't see it as out of the realm of possibility if the process and strategies of the gun banners were to be successful in their early attempts.
I'm all for it, pass a confiscation bill so we can see which side everyone is on.
At some point, any and all gun activities will be underground. No one will know what you have, and any transactions will be done with only people you know or close family. It'll be a new period of Prohibition, except it will be firearms that are prohibited. A new black market will arise and I can imagine "speak easy" types of gun clubs for trading and buying.
BrigandTwoFour
11-13-17, 13:32
At some point, any and all gun activities will be underground. No one will know what you have, and any transactions will be done with only people you know or close family. It'll be a new period of Prohibition, except it will be firearms that are prohibited. A new black market will arise and I can imagine "speak easy" types of gun clubs for trading and buying.
There is definitely a contingent trying to make the shooting sports culturally undesirable, like smoking. If they can’t ban it outright, they want to ratchet up the cultural pressure to hide it. I don’t think we will get to your idea of firearm speakeasy due to legislative prohibition, but I absolutely see it happening due to people just wanting to spend some time With “their people.”
It’s funny, actually. I hadn’t really thought about how much I’ve been “suppressing” myself until I spent four days at a training course last month where it was free reign of all subjects and gun talk. I liked it.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 13:41
There is definitely a contingent trying to make the shooting sports culturally undesirable, like smoking. If they can’t ban it outright, they want to ratchet up the cultural pressure to hide it. I don’t think we will get to your idea of firearm speakeasy due to legislative prohibition, but I absolutely see it happening due to people just wanting to spend some time With “their people.”
It’s funny, actually. I hadn’t really thought about how much I’ve been “suppressing” myself until I spent four days at a training course last month where it was free reign of all subjects and gun talk. I liked it.
My girlfriend's daughter was all enthused about going shooting with us a couple of years ago. Now all of a sudden she's anti-gun and won't even go in a store that sells guns. We are convinced she's been brainwashed by the school system in just the way you're talking about.
Diamondback
11-13-17, 13:50
My girlfriend's daughter was all enthused about going shooting with us a couple of years ago. Now all of a sudden she's anti-gun and won't even go in a store that sells guns. We are convinced she's been brainwashed by the school system in just the way you're talking about.
Ouch. Sucks when friends and family turn. Hopefully she's young enough to come back from it... my turner did it for craven political ambition so I've just completely cut her off like a gangrenous limb.
There is definitely a contingent trying to make the shooting sports culturally undesirable, like smoking. If they can’t ban it outright, they want to ratchet up the cultural pressure to hide it. I don’t think we will get to your idea of firearm speakeasy due to legislative prohibition, but I absolutely see it happening due to people just wanting to spend some time With “their people.”
It’s funny, actually. I hadn’t really thought about how much I’ve been “suppressing” myself until I spent four days at a training course last month where it was free reign of all subjects and gun talk. I liked it.
My thoughts are that the underground market will result in small groups trading ammo, guns and accessories, and these groups will be like small private clubs. Certain members will be reloading and a source of ammunition, or "vintage" factory ammo that will bring a premium price. Practice in shooting will not be done at public ranges, but in remote and rural locations, or not done at all.
At one time in the US, the Left realized that gun control was the kiss of death politically. Now they have gone off the rails to the radical fringe and appealing to a large segment of the gun owning population is not in their frame of reference. The gun owner in America may someday be the enemy of society.
Ex Parte orders are Temporary- not permanent! I think a lot of liberal progressive journalist publish stories and promote those stories to influence a certain body of people. There are a few things wrong with the idea of confiscating guns in America:
1. Most people will claim they sold there firearm locally or met someone down the road and sold it to them for cash with no bill of sale- because its legal!
2. I can see most people would be willing to turn over a couple of guns they don't want to act as if they are cooperating, all while keeping the guns they bought privately with no paperwork.
3. 80% lowers and LPK's exist and most people have an extra upper to have a turn key ghost gun in as little as 30 minutes.
4. And that's the reason this will never happed!!
if you want to confiscate guns- there's is a way, but it will be 45-50 years before that can happen, first you have to have a federal/state database for all firearm transaction both private and public which requires legislation. All FFL's will have to fax, mail or digitally convert every Form 4473 over the last 20 years to an agency tasked with record keeping. Were talking hundreds of millions of forms over the last 20 years. At the same time, the From 4473 will have to go digital and be kept on record at agency tasked with keeping records. The so called "loop hole" at guns shows will have to be reformed in a way that doesn't allow the sale or transfer of firearms without filing a Form 4473- that requires legislation. Pass a bill that regulates or restricts private sales or transfers on all firearms. Pass a bill regulating all 80% lowers and have manufactures issue serial numbers for each lower. Pass a bill requiring a nation wide roll call for all Form 4473's along with "Proof of Sale" provided by dealers to match up to serial numbers provided by manufacture and trace the history from the initial point of sale to the current end user. That would take literally decades and cost hundreds of billions of dollars not to mention the man power required for such a huge task!! Only until the US Federal Government had all the information and the logistics of over 300 million guns, only then could they rubber stamp a court order and go door to door. And lets say that happens, you cant go to everyone door at once. If you take the 35,000 employees from the FBI, 5,000 from the BATFE, 7,000 from the Secret Service and 10,700 from the Drug Enforcement Administration, 230,000 from the Department of Homeland Security and 112,000 from the entire justice department you would have 399,700 plus an additional 3-4,000 local police "Gun enforcement officers " 400,000 against what? 70 Million? We, by default, make up the worlds largest, most dangerous and most armed militant body the world has ever seen or will know! The federal government keeps saying that only a fraction of people and only a small minority of people in the US are gun owners- BULLSHIT!!! That's why this is a fantasy of the left- just like Hillary's presidential campaign! Its the world of make believe!!!
titsonritz
11-13-17, 14:32
Doc, those just passed in OR/WA. The standards are low enough that pretty much a ham sandwich can get an Ex Parte order against you...
And I am giving very serious thought to saying f*** Oregon because of it and moving back to a free state.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 14:51
Ex Parte orders are Temporary- not permanent! I think a lot of liberal progressive journalist publish stories and promote those stories to influence a certain body of people.
I think it may vary state-by-state. But even temporary orders: don't they normally require legal proceedings to get lifted? If your ex-wife says she's afraid of you do you think you'll ever get your guns back? I'd like to read about some real-world cases.
The point is the left is working toward strengthening ERPO's. Whatever the case may be today they have discovered an avenue to take someone's guns even if they are not getting "everything" they want right now.
1. Most people will claim they sold there firearm locally or met someone down the road and sold it to them for cash with no bill of sale- because its legal!
It's my understanding ex parte orders can be executed without the subject even being notified. They show up at your door and start removing firearms without anything other than a warrant. If that's incorrect then I'd like to see the evidence, although I do concede the actual procedure might vary by state.
2. I can see most people would be willing to turn over a couple of guns they don't want to act as if they are cooperating, all while keeping the guns they bought privately with no paperwork.
That was a favorite tactic in the naughty nineties with all the gun bans and Brady Bills being debated. Truth: they do not have the personnel or the time to go door-to-door and take EVERYONE'S firearms. Can't be done without massive troops. So the grabbers don't get the whole cake. But that won't stop them from naming new prohibited classes of people, or taking small bites of the cake. It's a whittling away of gun owners a few chips at a time until eventually all are affected. No one is saying ERPO can make everyone subject to confiscation, just that more and more people might fall under an ERPO umbrella. Think back a few years ago when domestic violence was added to the list of no-no's for owning a firearm, even if it's only via a restraining order (I think I'm remembering that correctly). There's an example of a kind of "lightweight" ERPO order in effect nationwide RIGHT NOW, even if it only prohibits someone from obtaining a new gun and not outright confiscation of those already owned.
3. 80% lowers and LPK's exist and most people have an extra upper to have a turn key ghost gun in as little as 30 minutes.
But a lot of people don't. A lot of people buy one or two guns and only shoot them occasionally. Not everyone is an "enthusiast" who even knows what an 80% lower is. People like that who become subject to ERPO's may decide it's just more trouble than its worth to keep owning firearms.
4. And that's the reason this will never happed!!
It will never happen ALL AT ONCE. The next part of your quote is spot on:
if you want to confiscate guns- there's is a way, but it will be 45-50 years before that can happen, first you have to have a federal/state database for all firearm transaction both private and public which requires legislation. All FFL's will have to fax, mail or digitally convert every Form 4473 over the last 20 years to an agency tasked with record keeping. Were talking hundreds of millions of forms over the last 20 years. At the same time, the From 4473 will have to go digital and be kept on record at agency tasked with keeping records. The so called "loop hole" at guns shows will have to be reformed in a way that doesn't allow the sale or transfer of firearms without filing a Form 4473- that requires legislation. Pass a bill that regulates or restricts private sales or transfers on all firearms. Pass a bill regulating all 80% lowers and have manufactures issue serial numbers for each lower. Pass a bill requiring a nation wide roll call for all Form 4473's along with "Proof of Sale" provided by dealers to match up to serial numbers provided by manufacture and trace the history from the initial point of sale to the current end user. That would take literally decades and cost hundreds of billions of dollars not to mention the man power required for such a huge task!! Only until the US Federal Government had all the information and the logistics of over 300 million guns, only then could they rubber stamp a court order and go door to door. And lets say that happens, you cant go to everyone door at once. If you take the 35,000 employees from the FBI, 5,000 from the BATFE, 7,000 from the Secret Service and 10,700 from the Drug Enforcement Administration, 230,000 from the Department of Homeland Security and 112,000 from the entire justice department you would have 399,700 plus an additional 3-4,000 local police "Gun enforcement officers " 400,000 against what? 70 Million?
All of this is true and it's why they pursue things like ERPO orders. We should all be praying that they never pass limits on ammo purchases or possession (including reloading components). I also do not believe they destroy background checks as required by law. Add to that the fact that a gun dealer who goes out of business has to send his 4473's to the ATF. And why are 4473's filled out on a computer with a lot of dealers now? Last time I bought a gun I did the 4473 on a computer. I don't know if that was being transmitted somewhere or not. The point is: they can find the gun owners if they look hard enough.
We, by default, make up the worlds largest, most dangerous and most armed militant body the world has ever seen or will know!
That may have been true in the past, but with the wussification of America I have my doubts that people will really stand up for their rights. Just the photos of long lines of people waiting in line to register their guns proves my point. (I'm sure that someone posted on the photos on this forum a while back. I can't find the thread yet but I'm going to keep looking for it). EDITED TO ADD: Found one photo from an original article: http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/connecticut-gun-registration/
The federal government keeps saying that only a fraction of people and only a small minority of people in the US are gun owners- BULLSHIT!!! That's why this is a fantasy of the left- just like Hillary's presidential campaign! Its the world of make believe!!!
Yet, they never give up. Their "fantasy" as you call it keeps eating away at our rights a little at a time. You are right they will never be able to wholesale confiscate everyone's gun, but over a period of years or even decades they can make it harder and harder to be a gun owner. That seems to be the strategy right now and they are apparently willing to wait as long as it takes.
Tidbits of interest:
http://gunsnfreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/CT-gun-owner-is-denied-application-for-assault-weapons-and-magazines.jpg
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/06/23/breaking-news/hawaii-becomes-first-state-to-put-gun-owners-in-database/
Diamondback
11-13-17, 14:52
And I am giving very serious thought to saying f*** Oregon because of it and moving back to a free state.
The only thing keeping *me* here in Left Coast Hell is figuring out how to overcome the relatives' resistance to uprooting...
Yall are underestimating the laziness of our government.
If we *really* want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, the first thing we need to do is reopen the asylums, but Big Pharma will never stand for that.
Nail, meet Head.
Don't take away everybody's rights; take away the rights of those whom doing so would benefit.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 16:25
If only they had access to lists of gun owners.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3OaF-j8x5Vc/hqdefault.jpg
BrigandTwoFour
11-13-17, 17:01
If only they had access to lists of gun owners.
You know, I was thinking about this earlier today. When it comes down to it, for all the bluster over 4473 collection and keeping records of background checks, how many people who are really into guns also have a CCW permit or a stamp?
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 17:17
You know, I was thinking about this earlier today. When it comes down to it, for all the bluster over 4473 collection and keeping records of background checks, how many people who are really into guns also have a CCW permit or a stamp?
I doubt the CCW or Stamp makes a difference. With all the NSA secret squirrel stuff, I'm sure big brother has a very accurate list. I'm willing to bet everyone who visits gun forums regularly is on some type of list as well.
I doubt the 4473 is even needed, I bet as soon as the background check is run, your name is inked into some type of NSA database.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 17:18
You know, I was thinking about this earlier today. When it comes down to it, for all the bluster over 4473 collection and keeping records of background checks, how many people who are really into guns also have a CCW permit or a stamp?
And if you've ever used a credit card for ANYTHING gun related then you are in somebody's database as a gun owner.
I'm telling you: you can run but you can't hide. They collect so much data on every single one of us that I gave up a long time ago trying to "hide" my gun ownership from the gummunt.
Suffice it to say that if you NEVER bought a papered gun, NEVER used a credit card for anything gun-related, and NEVER talked to the wrong people who might rat you out for having guns, then MAYBE you are safe.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
BrigandTwoFour
11-13-17, 17:25
No doubt, the tools are all there. But, as Firefly said, don't underestimate the laziness of the government. Just because the data is there doesn't mean it will get used all at once. Unless the eye of Mordor is turned on you, the probability is that nobody will do anything about it.
Outlander Systems
11-13-17, 17:26
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Core
I doubt the CCW or Stamp makes a difference. With all the NSA secret squirrel stuff, I'm sure big brother has a very accurate list. I'm willing to bet everyone who visits gun forums regularly is on some type of list as well.
I doubt the 4473 is even needed, I bet as soon as the background check is run, your name is inked into some type of NSA database.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 17:29
No doubt, the tools are all there. But, as Firefly said, don't underestimate the laziness of the government. Just because the data is there doesn't mean it will get used all at once. Unless the eye of Mordor is turned on you, the probability is that nobody will do anything about it.
I look at it like I look at drug possession. Probably if you keep your nose clean otherwise and don't get pulled over for something else then no one will ever know you smoke a doobie on Saturday night.
Live a lifestyle that tells the world you are an illegal drug user and you may have the badged ones breaking your door down.
Same with guns. Don't tell anybody that doesn't already know. Don't go shoot with people you've never shot with and don't know you can trust. Don't have paper catalogs sent to your mailbox (a tough one I know). Don't order gun stuff so that obvious ammo cases are dropped off at your door by UPS. Don't put gun and NRA stickers on your vehicle. Don't drive around with a rifle in the gun rack of your pickemup truck.
You know the drill.....
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 17:35
Same with guns. Don't tell anybody that doesn't already know. Don't go shoot with people you've never shot with and don't know you can trust. Don't have paper catalogs sent to your mailbox (a tough one I know). Don't order gun stuff so that obvious ammo cases are dropped off at your door by UPS. Don't put gun and NRA stickers on your vehicle. Don't drive around with a rifle in the gun rack of your pickemup truck.
You know the drill.....
I disagree with much of that, and agree with some.
Ya, if you have an NRA sticker on your truck it is more likely to get broken into by hoodrats..
But not ordering ammo, and hiding your gun ownership in general. No, we are doing nothing wrong, we must stand strong.
Gun ownership of black rifles is probably at the highest point it has ever been in the USA, we need to stand strong, tall and proud.
We are all already on '' lists '', but the commies know they can't go door to door right now or civil war would happen. They want to go death by a thousand paper cuts, the more of us who stand tall and teach our children to stand tall, the longer we will protect our rights.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 17:36
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Core
Makes me sick.
Makes me sick that the people who do these things are all violating their sacred Oaths they swore on the constitution.
Doc Safari
11-13-17, 17:38
I disagree with much of that, and agree with some.
Ya, if you have an NRA sticker on your truck it is more likely to get broken into by hoodrats..
But not ordering ammo, and hiding your gun ownership in general. No, we are doing nothing wrong, we must stand strong.
Gun ownership of black rifles is probably at the highest point it has ever been in the USA, we need to stand strong, tall and proud.
We are all already on '' lists '', but the commies know they can't go door to door right now or civil war would happen. They want to go death by a thousand paper cuts, the more of us who stand tall and teach our children to stand tall, the longer we will protect our rights.
Oh, I totally agree...I was just posting that for people who think they can limit their firearms ownership footprint. I was trying to show in a roundabout way that ultimately you can't hide your gun ownership even doing some Herculean gymnastics. (Was trying to show it's as impossible as never making a mistake). I guess I didn't do such a good job of getting that point across.
The point is: don't lay awake worrying about it because the "wrong" people probably already know you have guns no matter how well you try to hide it.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 17:45
The point is: don't lay awake worrying about it because the "wrong" people probably already know you have guns no matter how well you try to hide it.
Yep, we just need to stand tall and proud. I'm sure whatever NSA agent that looks at my online ammo buying habbits probably things '' jesus that guy hoards a lot of ammo '', but really I actually shoot the majority of it to stay proficient with my firearms. :cool:
The irony is.. Felons, gangbangers who are not allowed to own guns legally, they get their guns off the grid on the street... And unless their parole officers are arresting them, uncle sam really has no clue they have them.
I'm not paranoid or worried about nothing...
That said I dont do like some do and post up a picture of myself smoking crack with a whore flashing gold, chains, hundo bills, and waving a hi point flipping bird with caption "GWOP Boi No Limit Ninja FBGM EFIL4ZAGGIN **** DA POLICE YALL BITCHES AINT SHIT KEEPING IT CRIP CUZ"
Aaaand contrariwise I dont post pictures of myself in multicam and Oakleys with a bunch of LARPers doing SWAT Hands and Costa poses with ARs captioned "III% SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED OAFKEEPERS YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US MOLEY LABIA DONT TREAD WATER ON ME 1488"
with jacked up trucks and license plates in full view all over FB and IG like waaaaay too many people love to do.
Nope. Just live your life and be a regular bloke and nobody will bother you.
People only know what you tell them.
but if you want people you dont know to think you are cool by showing off your guns where the literal world can see, have at it.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 19:35
I'm not paranoid or worried about nothing...
That said I dont do like some do and post up a picture of myself smoking crack with a whore flashing gold, chains, hundo bills, and waving a hi point flipping bird with caption "GWOP Boi No Limit Ninja FBGM EFIL4ZAGGIN **** DA POLICE YALL BITCHES AINT SHIT KEEPING IT CRIP CUZ"
Aaaand contrariwise I dont post pictures of myself in multicam and Oakleys with a bunch of LARPers doing SWAT Hands and Costa poses with ARs captioned "III% SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED OAFKEEPERS YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US MOLEY LABIA DONT TREAD WATER ON ME 1488"
with jacked up trucks and license plates in full view all over FB and IG like waaaaay too many people love to do.
Nope. Just live your life and be a regular bloke and nobody will bother you.
People only know what you tell them.
but if you want people you dont know to think you are cool by showing off your guns where the literal world can see, have at it.
lol :laugh:
And if you've ever used a credit card for ANYTHING gun related then you are in somebody's database as a gun owner.
I'm telling you: you can run but you can't hide. They collect so much data on every single one of us that I gave up a long time ago trying to "hide" my gun ownership from the gummunt.
Suffice it to say that if you NEVER bought a papered gun, NEVER used a credit card for anything gun-related, and NEVER talked to the wrong people who might rat you out for having guns, then MAYBE you are safe.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
From what I understand, the government never gets receipts for firearms sales, just a phone call asking if its OK to purchase a firearm. The dealer retains the Forms and only after 20 years "may" submit forms to the BATFE or shred.
Doc Safari
11-14-17, 13:13
So, apparently, part of Di Fi's new scheme is to jail anyone who loans out an "assault weapon."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/14/dianne-feinsteins-assault-weapons-ban-prison-time-loaning-ar-15-friend/
The “assault weapons” ban proposed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and about two dozen other Democrats could mean prison time for anyone who loans an AR-15 rifle to a friend.
As is typical for gun control introduced by Feinstein, her “assault weapons” ban does much more than ban assault weapons. It also bans “high capacity” magazines and bump stocks, and creates a punitive system whereby AR-15 owners could face prison time for loaning their rifle to a friend. According to the NRA-ILA, owners of “grandfathered” AR-15s would have to seek out a Federal Firearms License holder (FFL) and have their friend undergo a background check in order to legally loan the gun. Data of the transaction would be recorded on the backside of that transaction, thereby contributing to the compilation of a gun owner’s database.
This is the second time in roughly five weeks that Feinstein has pushed an “assault weapons” ban. And she admits that she is introducing it over and over again in the event that a shift in the make-up of the Senate makes it feasible to secure a vote. Until such a shift occurs, she wants her liberal constituents to see her pushing gun control.
My take: In a way we are lucky to have this bat shit crazy bitch trying to ban our guns so we don't go back to sleep. She ain't gonna even get a vote on it anytime soon. She's just a reminder of a bygone era when it really was hard to buy an AR with a flash hider or a 30-round magazine at a decent price.
Diamondback
11-14-17, 13:18
My take: In a way we are lucky to have this bat shit crazy bitch trying to ban our guns so we don't go back to sleep. She ain't gonna even get a vote on it anytime soon. She's just a reminder of a bygone era when it really was hard to buy an AR with a flash hider or a 30-round magazine at a decent price.
Agreed. However, she also provides a diversion and a smokescreen for Bloomberg and other threats, much like how a magician uses his wand in one hand to direct your eyes away from where he doesn't want you looking where his other or an assistant does the actual sleight-of-hand.
If she gets lucky the Left will be happy to take it, but the Grabbers have adapted and concentrated on their new "state-level" strategy, which has regrettably been paying dividends for them in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, and who knows where next.
Deniability gentlemen, deniability. They can have 4473's out the wazoo on you but as of this point in time there is NOTHING federally (state may vary) to prevent you from selling every one of those firearms to unknown persons without a bill of sale. Now, if you're gonna go that route (at least theoretically) it would behoove you to not have anything to actually find when/if they come-a-looking since you will not be the only one with that story. ;)
America is a B-I-G country. Just sayin'........
Key to this is to mark the date that any possible future UBC goes into effect. From that date forward any gun you buy on a 4473 would have to be accounted for or you broke the law. Anything before that? Well, not so much.
Deniability gentlemen, deniability. They can have 4473's out the wazoo on you but as of this point in time there is NOTHING federally (state may vary) to prevent you from selling every one of those firearms to unknown persons without a bill of sale. Now, if you're gonna go that route (at least theoretically) it would behoove you to not have anything to actually find when/if they come-a-looking since you will not be the only one with that story. ;)
America is a B-I-G country. Just sayin'........
Key to this is to mark the date that any possible future UBC goes into effect. From that date forward any gun you buy on a 4473 would have to be accounted for or you broke the law. Anything before that? Well, not so much.
If/when it comes to the point you have to lie to the federal government about your ownership of firearms and break the law in doing so (now making you a criminal) regarding what's a Const. Right, it's more than likely already too late to save the Republic for which it stands. That's something everyone needs to take a serious think over.
If/when it comes to the point you have to lie to the federal government about your ownership of firearms and break the law in doing so (now making you a criminal) regarding what's a Const. Right, it's more than likely already too late to save the Republic for which it stands. That's something everyone needs to take a serious think over.
Oh I agree. Just a mental exercise, that's all. Must live to fight another day, discretion is the better part of valor, etc. etc.
As far as that lying to the feds thing, what a crock of shit! The veneer has come off the feds in recent decades, starting with Ruby Ridge, Waco, the NSA stuff, Fast and Furious, Comey et al, etc. For those lying bastards to charge someone with lying is the ultimate in hypocrisy! Screw them.
Oh I agree. Just a mental exercise, that's all. Must live to fight another day, discretion is the better part of valor, etc. etc.
As far as that lying to the feds thing, what a crock of shit! The veneer has come off the feds in recent decades, starting with Ruby Ridge, Waco, the NSA stuff, Fast and Furious, Comey et al, etc. For those lying bastards to charge someone with lying is the ultimate in hypocrisy! Screw them.
It is the utter pinnacle of hypocrisy. Anyone relying on it is a scoundrel and a cad.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3OaF-j8x5Vc/hqdefault.jpg
You know, I was thinking about this earlier today. When it comes down to it, for all the bluster over 4473 collection and keeping records of background checks, how many people who are really into guns also have a CCW permit or a stamp?
I doubt the CCW or Stamp makes a difference. With all the NSA secret squirrel stuff, I'm sure big brother has a very accurate list. I'm willing to bet everyone who visits gun forums regularly is on some type of list as well.
I doubt the 4473 is even needed, I bet as soon as the background check is run, your name is inked into some type of NSA database.
And if you've ever used a credit card for ANYTHING gun related then you are in somebody's database as a gun owner.
I'm telling you: you can run but you can't hide. They collect so much data on every single one of us that I gave up a long time ago trying to "hide" my gun ownership from the gummunt.
Suffice it to say that if you NEVER bought a papered gun, NEVER used a credit card for anything gun-related, and NEVER talked to the wrong people who might rat you out for having guns, then MAYBE you are safe.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
Oh, I totally agree...I was just posting that for people who think they can limit their firearms ownership footprint. I was trying to show in a roundabout way that ultimately you can't hide your gun ownership even doing some Herculean gymnastics. (Was trying to show it's as impossible as never making a mistake). I guess I didn't do such a good job of getting that point across.
The point is: don't lay awake worrying about it because the "wrong" people probably already know you have guns no matter how well you try to hide it.
All correct. Include METADATA from your phone and social media, GOOGLE algorithms, GEOINT, and the ECHELON (NSA) program.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-14-17, 14:29
Hell. Your VISA bill and browser history are enough.
Averageman
11-14-17, 15:31
Kind of futile for Diane to try to fix the other 49 States at this point isn't it?
They've got a lot of fun control, but haven't mastered controlling evil people who want to kill the innocent.
Doc Safari
11-15-17, 16:22
I know some of you don't like Breitbart, but in my mind "where there's smoke there's fire" and this at least qualifies as "smoke".
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/11/15/sen-chris-murphy-hints-republicans-ready-cave-gun-control/
Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) took to Twitter on Wednesday to hint that his Republican colleagues are ready to cave on gun control.
Democrats have pushed over ten different gun controls since the October 1 Las Vegas attack. Those include a ban on semiautomatic weapons, “high capacity” magazines, bump stocks, and “assault weapons.” The gun controls also include calls for an Australian-style gun ban, a ban on trigger cranks, and the implementation of expanded background checks, even though the Las Vegas gunman—and almost every mass public attacker of recent memory—passed a background check for his firearms.
Nine Senate Republicans signed a letter calling for a hearing on bump stocks after the Las Vegas attack. The nine signatories were Sens. Dean Heller (R-NV), Joni Ernst (R-IA), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), James Lankford (R-OK), Lisa Murkowski (R-AK), Tim Scott (R-SC), John Thune (R-SD), James Inhofe (R-OK), and John Cornyn (R-TX).
Of these, Cornyn emerged after the November 5 Texas church attack with an eye to gun legislation. The Washington Times reported Cornyn was one of a small number of Republicans who believe “there is room for a limited gun control debate.”
My take: OF COURSE the Republicans can and probably will betray us. Look at their recent behavior on repealing Obamacare as the only evidence you need. The Republicans in Congress are simply more liberal and less willing to listen to conservative constituents than in the past. I don't trust them any more than I trust the Democrats.
I'll be calling Lankford and Inhofe offices tomorrow! :mad:
I’ll hit up Cronyn and see where he is at. Not that I’ll get a straight answer. If this takes wind, we the electorate need to insure these folks are unemployed ASAFP.
ETA: I read the Washington Times article. It seems Cronyn was supporting ways to insure that NICS data is regularly entered, which given the history of the Tx church isn’t such a horrible idea. I’ll remind him it needs to stop there.
Averageman
11-15-17, 17:51
I just went to GOA and contacted Cornyn on this.
If he wants to get slick, I will call the local Conservative and National talk radio shows.
This slick SOB needs to stick with the program or get voted out of office.
Exhibit A:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PcVNGPT/0/dd9964f4/X2/i-PcVNGPT-X2.jpg
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
jerrysimons
11-15-17, 18:14
I’ll hit up Cronyn and see where he is at. Not that I’ll get a straight answer. If this takes wind, we the electorate need to insure these folks are unemployed ASAFP.
ETA: I read the Washington Times article. It seems Cronyn was supporting ways to insure that NICS data is regularly entered, which given the history of the Tx church isn’t such a horrible idea. I’ll remind him it needs to stop there.
Yup.
https://www.ksat.com/news/senator-cornyn-to-propose-legislation-that-will-fix-broken-background-check-system-for-firearms
When asked whether military-grade weapons "have a place in civil society" Cornyn mentioned the acts of Stephen Willeford. Willeford used his AR-15 to return fire on the Sutherland Springs gunman and chased the gunman down.
"The answer, to me, is that we need law abiding citizens to be able to defend themselves or their communities," Cornyn said. "But clearly we need to keep weapons out of the hands of people who are mentally ill, convicted felons, people convicted of domestic abuse."
Averageman
11-15-17, 20:33
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/11/15/tuesday-shootings-600-homicides/
The fatality marked Chicago’s 600th homicide of 2017, including shootings, assaults and other types of incidents, according to data maintained by the Chicago Sun-Times. The city ended last year with 781 homicides and hit the 600 mark on Oct. 17, 2016.
At the end of October, the city saw 2,445 shootings in total for 2017, down from 3,000 through the same date last year, according to Chicago Police Department statistics. There were 228 shooting incidents last month, compared to 353 shootings in the October 2016, a decline of 34 percent.
Thank You, I feel so much safer with Socialist Progressives at the helm when it comes to "Gun Control".
I mean your program in Chicago seems to be working well.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/11/15/tuesday-shootings-600-homicides/
The fatality marked Chicago’s 600th homicide of 2017, including shootings, assaults and other types of incidents, according to data maintained by the Chicago Sun-Times. The city ended last year with 781 homicides and hit the 600 mark on Oct. 17, 2016.
At the end of October, the city saw 2,445 shootings in total for 2017, down from 3,000 through the same date last year, according to Chicago Police Department statistics. There were 228 shooting incidents last month, compared to 353 shootings in the October 2016, a decline of 34 percent.
Thank You, I feel so much safer with Socialist Progressives at the helm when it comes to "Gun Control".
I mean your program in Chicago seems to be working well.
It didn't mention what he won for being the 600th customer served? On the bright side, it's Chicago, so he'll still be able to vote in the mid-term elections. :rolleyes:
And if you've ever used a credit card for ANYTHING gun related then you are in somebody's database as a gun owner.
I'm telling you: you can run but you can't hide. They collect so much data on every single one of us that I gave up a long time ago trying to "hide" my gun ownership from the gummunt.
Suffice it to say that if you NEVER bought a papered gun, NEVER used a credit card for anything gun-related, and NEVER talked to the wrong people who might rat you out for having guns, then MAYBE you are safe.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
I don’t doub that at all. But, look at the most recent shootings, there was a enough very basic data to at least slow down the process of them getting a gun and “they” did nothing. “They” if they cared could have called in an anonymous tip etc..but that shouldn’t have even been needed if the “regular” government did their job.
I don’t doub that at all. But, look at the most recent shootings, there was a enough very basic data to at least slow down the process of them getting a gun and “they” did nothing. “They” if they cared could have called in an anonymous tip etc..but that shouldn’t have even been needed if the “regular” government did their job.
Within a couple of days after the Vegas shooting the police released information that the POS bought “50 guns in the last 2 years”. Where did they get this information? By counting his guns and carbon dating them back to two years? Maybe he kept all his receipts available? Records were found somewhere.
Within a couple of days after the Vegas shooting the police released information that the POS bought “50 guns in the last 2 years”. Where did they get this information? By counting his guns and carbon dating them back to two years? Maybe he kept all his receipts available? Records were found somewhere.
Reverse trace, starting at the manufacturer, then to the distributor, then the dealer, then finally to the buyer via 4473.
If she gets lucky the Left will be happy to take it, but the Grabbers have adapted and concentrated on their new "state-level" strategy, which has regrettably been paying dividends for them in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, and who knows where next.
Probably VA...:rolleyes:
......
Nope. Just live your life and be a regular bloke and nobody will bother you.
People only know what you tell them.
but if you want people you dont know to think you are cool by showing off your guns where the literal world can see, have at it.
This is the underrated truth. Most folks will tell you all sorts of thing if you just let them talk.
And all these folks posting endless pictures of every gun and piece of gear they own, and then trying to talk about "opsec"... Psssssh. Yeah, bro.. whatev...
....America is a B-I-G country. Just sayin'........
Indeed. Most folks don't grasp how much space is around, even near large cities, given everyon's so accustomed to the everyday head-down shuffle between work and neighborhood.
RetroRevolver77
11-17-17, 05:01
Within a couple of days after the Vegas shooting the police released information that the POS bought “50 guns in the last 2 years”. Where did they get this information? By counting his guns and carbon dating them back to two years? Maybe he kept all his receipts available? Records were found somewhere.
Likely BATFE knew how many he bought.
Another part of the "shell game" and We the People are all the suckers of the game... Watch this and that while power mongers take.(Elite) everything from We the People.
The release of "News" of the sexual misconducts of Hollywood is part of the shell game of mis-directions all of this is part of planned attacks on us.... The People.
If anyone thinks 4473s are not recorded when done electronically, I have a bridge for sale and beach front property for sale in Wyoming. So many things are going on none of us can follow all of the actions going on.
The Obama health care "tax" plan. We are stuck with it. Just like S.S. mandatory tax (set up to take and not give back due to life expectancy at the time) Welfare, That one started as a hand up and became a hand out system
All of this is interrelated. For total control. Much of this is the same tactic that was cold war defense tactics of Europe so many targets to watch that the enemy can't follow all of them. Now it's being used against us the People of America.
A few threads subjects posted here are all interrelated but not on the surface look at the People involved in them.
Most of this started before we was born and keep growing bigger.
All comments aside a FYI is the Californians will reelect DiFi for the next 100 years.
Diamondback
11-17-17, 19:20
All comments aside a FYI is the Californians will reelect DiFi for the next 100 years.
Well, they already have her stuffed and mounted on Disneyland animatronics, so they gotta recoup the investment somehow... seriously, I'll bet she's still spewing forth the Brown Smelly and drooling all over herself when the Sun goes red-giant in a few billion years and Crispy Critters everything on this rock, assuming the Prince of Darkness doesn't come to collect on their contract first.
Likely BATFE knew how many he bought.
Yes, which was my point. As mentioned by blade 68, I do not doubt that 4473's are stored in some data base.
Yes, which was my point. As mentioned by blade 68, I do not doubt that 4473's are stored in some data base.
Martinsburg, West Virginia........
Martinsburg, West Virginia........
Also between Bluffdale and Lehi, Utah, West side of the 68. Or maybe that just were all everyone's emails, texts, phone calls, and browser history is stored at.
Also between Bluffdale and Lehi, Utah, West side of the 68. Or maybe that just were all everyone's emails, texts, phone calls, and browser history is stored at.
Yeah I think that is the NSA storage facility out in Utah. The ATF's is in WV. Not that the two don't intertwine in some way though.......:rolleyes:
The last 4473 I completed, my FFL/SOT just called it in. I was standing next to him. No serial number, no model identification information was given over the phone.
Averageman
11-18-17, 19:15
Having all of that information is one thing, having everything it would take to use it against gun owners is a completely different thing.
If you wanted complete anarchy and some very dangerous circumstances, all it would take is federal level legislation to point in that direction.
I would imagine no small amount of "Monkey Wrenching" taking place within the Federal, State and Local LEO's and the .mil would be split with only a minority of the troops siding with an order to proceed with this.
There are a lot more Patriots out there than we give credit for.
Having all of that information is one thing, having everything it would take to use it against gun owners is a completely different thing.
If you wanted complete anarchy and some very dangerous circumstances, all it would take is federal level legislation to point in that direction.
I would imagine no small amount of "Monkey Wrenching" taking place within the Federal, State and Local LEO's and the .mil would be split with only a minority of the troops siding with an order to proceed with this.
There are a lot more Patriots out there than we give credit for.
I agree. It would create magnitudes more problems than it would solve.
The left seems to ignore this fact. Analagous to the mindset during the early to mid 60's that we'd just go into Vietnam and clean up this mess in short order. Reality sometimes steps up and smacks you square in the face. Why they continue to suggest such foolishness is, to me, indicative of self-destructive behavior and a total disregard for the welfare and stability of our country.
I for one would rather see our country as we know it be destroyed before I'd settle for being disarmed. That may make me guilty of exactly what I accuse them of, but it's just the way I feel and truly believe we are "right". The 99.9% of us EBR owners who never commit a crime, let alone mass murder, should NEVER be punished for the acts of a very small sociopathic few.....and I refuse to be.
Moose-Knuckle
11-19-17, 03:33
We have a member that use to post here, Belmont31R who got a ring on his doorbell by an ATF agent that had a copy of multiple 4473s he had filled out for semi-automatic rifles, mostly ARs. He went to the FFL that he mostly dealt with and they confirmed ATF Agents had recently went through their files looking for persons that purchased multiple semi-automatic handguns and rifles.
The thread is on here from several years ago, I can't find it at the moment but it's there.
We have a member that use to post here, Belmont31R who got a ring on his doorbell by an ATF agent that had a copy of multiple 4473s he had filled out for semi-automatic rifles, mostly ARs. He went to the FFL that he mostly dealt with and they confirmed ATF Agents had recently went through their files looking for persons that purchased multiple semi-automatic handguns and rifles.
The thread is on here from several years ago, I can't find it at the moment but it's there.
I remember that!
Also, when FFLs close their doors where do think those 4473 end up.....
I agree. It would create magnitudes more problems than it would solve.
The left seems to ignore this fact. Analagous to the mindset during the early to mid 60's that we'd just go into Vietnam and clean up this mess in short order. Reality sometimes steps up and smacks you square in the face. Why they continue to suggest such foolishness is, to me, indicative of self-destructive behavior and a total disregard for the welfare and stability of our country.
I for one would rather see our country as we know it be destroyed before I'd settle for being disarmed. That may make me guilty of exactly what I accuse them of, but it's just the way I feel and truly believe we are "right". The 99.9% of us EBR owners who never commit a crime, let alone mass murder, should NEVER be punished for the acts of a very small sociopathic few.....and I refuse to be.
There are members of our population who are essentially disarmed (think blue states and cities) who 60 years ago weren't. But now to them it is natural, a given. I remember in high school during deer season every pickup truck in the school parking lot had a rifle in the rack in the back window- who would think of doing that now? It's natural now- disarm yourself before going on school property. All it takes is a generation conditioned to being disarmed. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
We have a member that use to post here, Belmont31R who got a ring on his doorbell by an ATF agent that had a copy of multiple 4473s he had filled out for semi-automatic rifles, mostly ARs. He went to the FFL that he mostly dealt with and they confirmed ATF Agents had recently went through their files looking for persons that purchased multiple semi-automatic handguns and rifles.
The thread is on here from several years ago, I can't find it at the moment but it's there.
IIRC he lived near the border and they were "checking up" on purchasers of multiple semi-autos to see if they were ending up being sent across the border (oh the hypocrisy!).
Yes, which was my point. As mentioned by blade 68, I do not doubt that 4473's are stored in some data base.
Only the 4473's that are turned in when a FFL shuts down business. I bet that is less than 25% of 4473's that have been processed. NICS checks are probably logged as well, but they don't get the information about the firearm; just whether it was a transfer of a long gun, hand gun or other. In fact, they don't even know how many long guns are being transferred. I can do an unlimited amount of firearms on one single 4473.
Only the 4473's that are turned in when a FFL shuts down business. I bet that is less than 25% of 4473's that have been processed. NICS checks are probably logged as well, but they don't get the information about the firearm; just whether it was a transfer of a long gun, hand gun or other. In fact, they don't even know how many long guns are being transferred. I can do an unlimited amount of firearms on one single 4473.
Isn't there a separate form that has to be filed with purchases of multiple handguns?
Moose-Knuckle
11-21-17, 02:45
IIRC he lived near the border and they were "checking up" on purchasers of multiple semi-autos to see if they were ending up being sent across the border (oh the hypocrisy!).
I think he lived in Austin which is over 200 miles north of the border.
Isn't there a separate form that has to be filed with purchases of multiple handguns?
Yes. But not rifles or “other.” My FFL filled one out “for two or more,” he said, but I don’t know if it’s it’s sent anywhere but the folder in the safe.
Doc Safari
11-21-17, 09:30
Yes. But not rifles or “other.” My FFL filled one out “for two or more,” he said, but I don’t know if it’s it’s sent anywhere but the folder in the safe.
Actually, in border states multiple purchases of semi-auto rifles are reported to ATF also.
Actually, in border states multiple purchases of semi-auto rifles are reported to ATF also.
Thank you. Good to know. The ATF is directly notified that day?
It's obvious that every single firearm and firearm related purchase is tracked, logged and known by whichever alphabet agency wants the info.
You're fooling yourself if you think the ATF and other fed.gov agencies aren't tracking ALL 4473's and all purchases of ammo, mags, armor, etc.
We live in the age where privacy is only attainable by living in a cave in the middle of nowhere with no electronics whatsoever. For all intents and purposes, our entire lives are open books if someone wants the info.
Doc Safari
11-21-17, 10:24
Thank you. Good to know. The ATF is directly notified that day?
I think it's a form similar to multiple handgun purchases and the FFL reports the multiple sale. Someone with a dealer's license in one of the border states affected can probably give you the gory details. I've never had to worry about it.
Doc Safari
11-21-17, 11:24
I just found this:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/17-gun-controls-currently-pushed-democrats-surrogates/
21 Gun Controls Currently Being Pushed by Senate Democrats and Their Surrogates
Senate Democrats and their surrogates in various groups are currently pushing 21 new gun controls for law-abiding citizens.
These controls range from an all-out ban on semiautomatic firearms to regulations on single shot muzzleloaders and limits on the number of guns someone can pass to a felon.
Breitbart News outlined the first nine of these gun controls on October 11. They were:
Ban on Bump Stocks – Sen. Dianne Feinstein is pushing this with her Automatic Fire Prevention Act. She admits that bump stocks are an accessory—that they do not convert semiautomatics into automatics—but she wants to ban them anyway. Her bill explicitly bans any accessory that allows an increase in rate of fire in short bursts but does “not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machine gun.”
Ban on Trigger Cranks – Sen. Feinstein’s bill bans trigger cranks too. Like the bump stock, trigger cranks are another novelty that gun owners can use to achieve short, rapid bursts of fire. Such cranks allow a gun owner to mimic automatic fire yet do not convert a semiautomatic gun into an automatic one.
Ban on Semiautomatic firearms – Sen. Feinstein voiced support for this ban during her appearance on Face the Nation, and the Washington Post pushed for such a ban two days later.
Implementation of Universal Background Checks – Sen. Chris Murphy used an appearance on State of the Union to stress that a bump stock ban is only the beginning for Democrats. They plan to follow that ban with the implementation of universal background checks, which means private gun sales would require a background check just like retail sales. Democrats claim these checks would save lives, yet Sen. Murphy and others ignore the fact that the Vegas attacker purchased his guns via background checks, as did so many attackers before him. The real reason Democrats want universal background checks is because such checks require a gun registry to be enforceable. Therefore, the implementation of such checks would immediately lead to one more gun control: a gun registry.
Ban on “Assault Weapons” – Sen. Murphy also mentioned an “assault weapons” ban, suggesting it would be next in line after background checks. The Los Angeles Times called for an “assault weapons” ban as well.
Ban on “High Capacity” Magazines – The Los Angeles Times also called for a ban on “high capacity” magazines, describing them as one of the most dangerous aspects of “assault weapons.” The Times points to attacks like ones on Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, and the San Bernardino County Building as justifications for an “assault weapons” ban that contains a “high capacity” magazine ban. In so doing, the Times overlooks the fact that all three attacks—Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, and San Bernardino—occurred in gun-free zones. This means the attackers had no threat of armed response and could take their time, reloading as often as needed. In such scenarios magazine capacity is a moot issue.
Opposition to Concealed Carry – Breitbart News reported that Sen. Feinstein took time to argue against concealed carry for law-abiding citizens during an appearance on Face the Nation. Speaking of concealed carry she said, “I don’t believe it’s protected by the Constitution.”
Opposition to National Reciprocity – Sen. Feinstein also voiced opposition to the national reciprocity legislation currently pending before Congress. She said, “Well, my opinion of that bill is it’s terrible. … [Do] we want every American to feel comfortable packing a concealed weapon around the country?”
Australian-style Gun Ban – The Washington Post put forward the idea in an October 9 editorial.
Numerous others have flooded in since the introduction of those original nine. The newest suggested controls include regulation on single shot muzzleloaders. In fact, Gabby Giffords gun control group suggests muzzleloaders could be the next bump stock. Her group also wants gun control on “high capacity shotguns,” binary triggers, “AK and AR style pistols,” arm braces for AR style pistols, “AR pistol blade stabilizers,” .50 caliber rifles, .50 caliber ammunition, and tracer rounds for various calibers of firearms.
Giffords’ group seeks to substantiate their call for a ban on tracer rounds by writing, “Tracer rounds allow a shooter to see where rounds are tracking at night.”
Two other gun controls are being pushed by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY). The first of the two is a federal ban on firearms trafficking. She is pushing this ban although such trafficking is already clearly prohibited via ATF background check form 4473. LIBN reports that Gillibrand is also again pushing the Hadiya Pendleton and Nyasia Pryear-Yard Gun Trafficking & Crime Prevention Act, which “would make it illegal to sell purchase, or transfer two or more firearms to someone whom the seller knows, or has reasonable cause to know, is a felon or convicted domestic abuser.”
Lastly, the 21st gun control currently being pushed is regulation on so-called “ghost guns.” These are guns that are legal to manufacture at home, but require a significant amount of know-how and equipment to accomplish. The establishment media is currently pointed to two crimes committed with “ghost guns” as justification for a new federal law to regulate the sale, manufacture of the firearms.
My take: new restrictions on muzzle loaders? Really? REALLY?
It's obvious that every single firearm and firearm related purchase is tracked, logged and known by whichever alphabet agency wants the info.
You're fooling yourself if you think the ATF and other fed.gov agencies aren't tracking ALL 4473's and all purchases of ammo, mags, armor, etc.
We live in the age where privacy is only attainable by living in a cave in the middle of nowhere with no electronics whatsoever. For all intents and purposes, our entire lives are open books if someone wants the info.
They sure aren't tracking the stuff I sell in any type of "real time". Probably 1/3 of my transfers are to NICS exempt purchasers. That 4473 goes in a box in one of my safes. Until the ATF comes looking for it (which has never happened) nobody even knows where that firearm went but me and the person who purchased it. As noted earlier, a NICS check doesn't transfer any real data other than the fact someone asked for a background for a potential purchase or pawn of a firearm.
Hell, manufacturers are not even required to submit serial numbers of firearms they sell to the ATF. They are required to log them and keep track, but that info isn't shared with the ATF unless they come looking for it. All they have to do is fill out this very simple form https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/annual-firearms-manufacturing-and-exportation-report-afmer-atf-form-530011/download annually.
As for ammo, it is shipped to my distribution warehouse by the pallet, broken down into individual retail packages and then sent to me. My warehouse doesn't track any sort of identifying numbers on those individual packages (I asked a long time ago), the only thing they know is they sent me X amount of X type ammo. That invoice is buried in their system until some alphabet agency comes looking. Since this warehouse also is one of my prime vendors of other stuff, I regularly socialize with their management. Many are gun guys and we've had multiple discussions about these types of subjects. They have never had a visit from anyone from the ATF because they don't sell firearms. Ammo is pretty much unregulated. They fill out ZERO paperwork with the ATF for ammo. There are invoices from the manufacturer, but that's it.
Magazines are the same way. There is no reporting required by the ATF or any other gov't agency as to their production and distribution. Unless a manufacturer is secretly funneling its sales data to the ATF.. tracking isn't happening.
Armor.. I have no clue. Never bought any, never have dealt in any.
While I have no love for any type of firearms regulations and hate the paperwork I have to deal with as an FFL, I feel that the ATF is an inefficient shit show. With just over 3000 agents tasked with more than firearms, they aren't the boogeyman we want them to be. The real danger comes on a local scale ie: California.
HackerF15E
11-21-17, 11:54
My take: new restrictions on muzzle loaders? Really? REALLY?
https://giffords.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Giffords-Lethal-and-Legal-1.pdf
LEGAL AND LETHAL:
9 PRODUCTS THAT COULD
BE THE NEXT BUMP STOCK
LOS ANGELES (AP) — A gun control group founded by former U.S. Rep. Gabby Giffords asked two web hosting companies on Friday to shut down websites selling parts and machines that help make untraceable homemade firearms known as "ghost guns."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/giffords-group-asks-hosts-shut-down-ghost-gun-231543344.html
Apparently The Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence likes equal rights under the law.... until they don't.
The_War_Wagon
11-25-17, 20:46
'Bout time for her husband to make some "ghost" purchases, no? :rolleyes:
Need to shut down sites belonging to Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware. They all sell scary tools enabling people to make scary ghost guns.
Coal Dragger
11-25-17, 22:21
LOS ANGELES (AP) — A gun control group founded by former U.S. Rep. Gabby Giffords asked two web hosting companies on Friday to shut down websites selling parts and machines that help make untraceable homemade firearms known as "ghost guns."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/giffords-group-asks-hosts-shut-down-ghost-gun-231543344.html
Apparently The Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence likes equal rights under the law.... until they don't.
So every machine shop in the nation needs to be shut down by that logic.
Hell ban files, and other hand tools too while we’re at it.
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