View Full Version : In 2011, I bought a S&W M&P Carbine.
While inventorying and cleaning my gun safe. I started to admire the FDE carbine with original Magpull accessories. I like the rifle, but right after I got it, S&W started bringing out the middy version and discontinued this one. I felt a little disappointment, thinking if I had waited a month or so I’d have the newest version. I paid $990 for it before tax, in today’s market it would be about $3-400 less (new). The only accessory I bought for was a Trijicon MRO, which makes the rifle shoot one hole groups at 25 yard with me at the trigger. I really like the set up, I had a ground hog problem this summer. It gave me one shot kills eight times in a row. Yeah, I have about $1500+ in the M&P, and maybe I’ll get $800 for the set up if I decided to part with it. Sometimes you get good deals to make up for the blunders. It all works out in the end. I’m wondering if anyone here has this version and what you’ll think of it.
I bought one in 2008. Mine ended up becoming upgraded to the A5 buffer system, Geissele trigger, and a new upper with an 18" Sionics barrel. It's honestly my favorite rifle. The original upper had its front sight chopped and a 13" free float rail installed. The original parts and upper went on to become a beginner rifle for someone on a budget. While I wish I had know well enough to buy a Colt back then, I'm very happy with how it turned out, and all the others I had privilege to help along the way. That original upper was accurate, though, and would shoot the heavies pretty well.
Is the S&W less quality than a Colt?
Is the S&W less quality than a Colt?
I wouldn't necessarily say better quality, but I would say better built. Colt has been building ARs for decades and they use the correct material, processes and quality control. Smith and Wesson had a pretty steep learning curve.
I think it's safe to say a Colt AR will always retain a better re-sale than a S&W AR (or Ruger, or Remington, etc.)
If you don't sell it, then you won't lose money on it; if you like it keep it.
Andy
P.S. I overpaid to build a "cheap" M4 clone a couple of years ago compared to the current price of a new Colt 6920.
Trying to search why the Colt is better on here. I might be missing a thread with the meat, but all I’m reading is, it’s better because it’s better. I like Colt I have a O1918, a Trooper MkIII revolver and a King Cobra. So, is the 6920 made from better aluminum and steel, tighter tolerances, or stronger small parts?
So, is the 6920 made from better aluminum and steel, tighter tolerances, or stronger small parts?
Has been discussed ad nauseum.
Is the S&W less quality than a Colt?
Long story short, Colt is a better package in terms of quality control, gas system, and quality of parts.
It has a better barrel, a known quality bolt, FCG from Mil-spec parts, etc. When I rebuilt the S&W upper I had originally, I added a gas port insert to make it more like the Colt.
I'm currently helping a buddy get his S&W upper to function correctly with issues I would NOT expect to see from Colt.
In the words, Colt has the reliability complexities sorted out.
Fatorangecat
11-12-17, 12:06
There are a lot of professionals here on this forum and there is a lot of information. Don't be surprised if you don't get much of a response about why Colt is better than other brands. That question has been answered over and over and it seems most people here are tired of repeating it. Its like going to the SnipersHide and asking "which scope for your 700". Take a couple weeks to search and read through old threads and you will start to understand the value in a standard like the 6920.
I have to throw in my 2 cents...
Think of Colts as being built to a specific standard, some companies go beyond that standard to meet certain requirements, other companies go below that standard to meet a certain price point.
Do some reading here on the forum to determine where your brand of choice falls in that spectrum...
I hope I didn’t ruffle feathers, I just intended to mention the performance of my rifle even if I overpaid for it. When it was mentioned, that 6920 would have been the first choice over the M&P; it got my envy curious. Maybe enough to put a 6920 on my short list.
crusader377
11-12-17, 14:36
I think you got a decent deal at the time. Remember is market for ARs in 2017 is much different than 2011. My advice is as long as the rifle runs well and is accurate, I would keep it.
I hope I didn’t ruffle feathers, I just intended to mention the performance of my rifle even if I overpaid for it. When it was mentioned, that 6920 would have been the first choice over the M&P; it got my envy curious. Maybe enough to put a 6920 on my short list.
Since you are talking about the performance of the rifle, how many rounds do you have through it? Any malfunctions or less than perfect function along the way?
I use it for the marksmanship team at my Air Guard range for practice. I’m not sure how rounds I’ve ran thru it, but it’s never stumbled. I’ve only handled this one AR, never fired any outside of military issued M4s, A1s, A2s and the SAW, if that counts. I was prior Army before joining the Air Guard.
The A1 jammed a lot after about 100 rounds, it was in poor shape. One of the A2s had a loose barrel just enough to give me two different groups and the SAW was great.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-12-17, 17:49
I got an m&p tactical ar15.
It was the free floated version with 5r rifling.
It literally had a defective Barrel, there were burrs in the rifling. I sent it back for warranty repair since I bought it brand new. The warranty work took about 3-4 months and then their gun smith said that the barrel was fine and they sent me the gun back with the same Barrel that had burrs in it. I called them after I got the gun back and asked them why they did not fix the barrel, they said that their professional gunsmith looked at it and that it was fine. BULL ****ING SHIT! Either the gunsmith is mentally handicapped, blind, or they never even looked at the rifle.
Either way I got completely screwed over. They said I could send the rifle back again if I wanted, yeah right like I'm going to wait four more months for the gunsmith just to send back the same gun with the same defective Barrel again.
I got rid of the gun telling the new owner he needs to the replace the barrel and why. After that customer service experience I will never give Smith & Wesson another Penny of my money.
I hate S&W after that experience.
That’d be a bitter experience for sure. A 3-4 month turn around for warrenty work isn’t a good sign either. Did it shoot flyers?
All of which are failures of the military maintenance system and not the weapon itself.
The A1 jammed a lot after about 100 rounds, it was in poor shape. One of the A2s had a loose barrel just enough to give me two different groups and the SAW was great.
The A1 was the first real gun I ever fired, I didn't think to see what brand it was. The A2 was brand new, at least that’s what I was told when the armorer handed it to me. I never checked the brand on that one either.
While inventorying and cleaning my gun safe. I started to admire the FDE carbine with original Magpull accessories. I like the rifle, but right after I got it, S&W started bringing out the middy version and discontinued this one. I felt a little disappointment, thinking if I had waited a month or so I’d have the newest version. I paid $990 for it before tax, in today’s market it would be about $3-400 less (new). The only accessory I bought for was a Trijicon MRO, which makes the rifle shoot one hole groups at 25 yard with me at the trigger. I really like the set up, I had a ground hog problem this summer. It gave me one shot kills eight times in a row. Yeah, I have about $1500+ in the M&P, and maybe I’ll get $800 for the set up if I decided to part with it. Sometimes you get good deals to make up for the blunders. It all works out in the end. I’m wondering if anyone here has this version and what you’ll think of it.
It sounds like your rifle is working fine and you're pretty happy with its' performance.
Stop worrying about whether you have the best version or best setup or gas system or whatever and go shoot the gun.
Sure, S&W isn't top-tier, but it's not complete junk either (well, usually...).
If you just can't rid yourself of rifle envy, the good news is now's the time to buy rifles!
Keep your M&P as either a dedicated training rifle (if you have a lot of rounds on it) or as a panic-sell item (if you've got few rounds on it), and go out and buy the rifle you want now, while prices are down and Black Friday is right around the corner....
voiceofreason
11-13-17, 15:32
I had an experience like that with Savage on a bolt gun. bore was so far off of concentric it nearly reached the edge by the muzzle. they said nothing was wrong with it and shipped it back to me. So I paid for shipping to them and got nothing for a defective product. Customer service all but told me to **** off because their gunsmith said it was within spec. What spec? What QC?
Never another Savage for me.
I got an m&p tactical ar15.
It was the free floated version with 5r rifling.
It literally had a defective Barrel, there were burrs in the rifling. I sent it back for warranty repair since I bought it brand new. The warranty work took about 3-4 months and then their gun smith said that the barrel was fine and they sent me the gun back with the same Barrel that had burrs in it. I called them after I got the gun back and asked them why they did not fix the barrel, they said that their professional gunsmith looked at it and that it was fine. BULL ****ING SHIT! Either the gunsmith is mentally handicapped, blind, or they never even looked at the rifle.
Either way I got completely screwed over. They said I could send the rifle back again if I wanted, yeah right like I'm going to wait four more months for the gunsmith just to send back the same gun with the same defective Barrel again.
I got rid of the gun telling the new owner he needs to the replace the barrel and why. After that customer service experience I will never give Smith & Wesson another Penny of my money.
I hate S&W after that experience.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 16:16
I had an experience like that with Savage on a bolt gun. bore was so far off of concentric it nearly reached the edge by the muzzle. they said nothing was wrong with it and shipped it back to me. So I paid for shipping to them and got nothing for a defective product. Customer service all but told me to **** off because their gunsmith said it was within spec. What spec? What QC?
Never another Savage for me.
Companies that pull this shit these days either don't give a damn, or they are just stupid in general/have a very stupid employee. I've posted my experience with the S&W a few times, and I'm sure thousands of people have read my report thanks to the world wide web.
I feel like I have every right to hold a grudge against S&W, and I would feel the same way about savage if I had your experience.
Stuff like this is part of the reason I believe this board always says get a Colt/DD/Knights.
Companies like S&W and savage aren't marketing their guns to people who want/need top of the line equipment, I think they are marketed towards not very well informed, or budget minded folks. ( No offense OP, I bought a S&W as well )
The department I work for had a bunch of S&W M&P15's, and Colt 6920's for training; the M&P's constantly shit themselves on the range, and the Colts never had a hicup. I wouldn't say we were running the rifles very hard either. We originally got the S&W rifles to replace our G36's, and not many people were very happy about that. I assume it was to save money, which was stupid because the S&W rifles were replaced with Colts.
I gave S&W more than one chance, and they blew it. They will never get another penny from me, and I will never recommend their products to anyone else.
Companies like S&W and savage aren't marketing their guns to people who want/need top of the line equipment, I think they are marketed towards not very well informed, or budget minded folks. ( No offense OP, I bought a S&W as well).
This is a real sore point with me. You SHOULD be able to buy from S&W and expect a quality serviceable firearm. It would be so simple for them to sell departments a quality AR and a solid M&P. One contact for warranty, one armorers course, etc. Instead they keep digging their own grave selling sub-optimal products and ruining any brand loyalty that may still exist.
Andy
S&W traded quality for profits a long time ago. I agree the ARs are marketed as a low to mid-liner rifle but you get what you pay for.
I had an experience like that with Savage on a bolt gun. bore was so far off of concentric it nearly reached the edge by the muzzle. they said nothing was wrong with it and shipped it back to me. So I paid for shipping to them and got nothing for a defective product. Customer service all but told me to **** off because their gunsmith said it was within spec. What spec? What QC?
Never another Savage for me.
I had an experience like that with a Remington 700 bolt action rifle and their lousy customer service. So did two people I shoot F Class matches with, so we swore off Remington.
It seems like profit is being placed well ahead of quality control and company pride these days and it is very disconcerting.
what I’ve found so far from searching; the M&P’s barrel is 4140 not 4150 CMV, the bufferspring is lighter than recommended in a carbine gas length. I’ll agree to that, it does seem to slam the action back. I’m sure there is more, if I look harder. I’ll probably get a 6920 soon to take advantage of the sub $800 prices. I’ll probably like it more too. I’ll keep the M&P, it has proven itself to me.
This should help some: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?7355-Knowledge-Based-Threads
Trying to search why the Colt is better on here. I might be missing a thread with the meat, but all I’m reading is, it’s better because it’s better. I like Colt I have a O1918, a Trooper MkIII revolver and a King Cobra. So, is the 6920 made from better aluminum and steel, tighter tolerances, or stronger small parts?
Walker_Texasranger
11-14-17, 08:40
I’d say get a 6720 but that’s me.
what I’ve found so far from searching; the M&P’s barrel is 4140 not 4150 CMV, the bufferspring is lighter than recommended in a carbine gas length. I’ll agree to that, it does seem to slam the action back. I’m sure there is more, if I look harder. I’ll probably get a 6920 soon to take advantage of the sub $800 prices. I’ll probably like it more too. I’ll keep the M&P, it has proven itself to me.
I got a Colt 6920 Trooper about a month ago for $724 shipped. Some folks I know got em for less. Maybe worth checking into, especially if they are still available in the low $700.00 range.
crusader377
11-14-17, 11:28
what I’ve found so far from searching; the M&P’s barrel is 4140 not 4150 CMV, the bufferspring is lighter than recommended in a carbine gas length. I’ll agree to that, it does seem to slam the action back. I’m sure there is more, if I look harder. I’ll probably get a 6920 soon to take advantage of the sub $800 prices. I’ll probably like it more too. I’ll keep the M&P, it has proven itself to me.
Although 4150 CMV is definitely a higher quality steel than 4140, I wouldn't worry that the M&P has a 4140 considering that GIs stormed the beaches of Normandy with 4140 barrel steel M1s. With the buffer, I believe the M&P uses a carbine buffer and I would simply invest $15-$20 buying an H buffer.
The Colt decision is an excellent one and I would keep the M&P as a secondary carbine.
aclawrence
11-14-17, 12:07
I used to have a M&P 15. I let my brother use it for 3 gun and he ran thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup. I would say it was a great rifle for the money.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
voiceofreason
11-14-17, 12:28
I don't know about the spring being lighter, but following recommendations, I put an H3 carbine buffer in an M&P and it slowed the velocity tremendously and it recoils less "violently" now. Solidly reliable running H3 buffer on low powered .223 rounds. Definitely overgassed. No can for this gun, though it's been 100% reliable for a few thousand rounds up to now.
what I’ve found so far from searching; the M&P’s barrel is 4140 not 4150 CMV, the bufferspring is lighter than recommended in a carbine gas length. I’ll agree to that, it does seem to slam the action back. I’m sure there is more, if I look harder. I’ll probably get a 6920 soon to take advantage of the sub $800 prices. I’ll probably like it more too. I’ll keep the M&P, it has proven itself to me.
I went with a Blue Sprinco and H2. Worked pretty well.
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