View Full Version : Best magazines to keep loaded to 28?
voiceofreason
11-13-17, 04:49
In YOUR experience...
What are the best magazines that are reasonably priced?
I have metal and plastic (including Thermold) mags that were from before the 1990s AWB that work fine with no issues.
Currently running M2 PMAGs and D&H.
Given that D&H are $8, PMAGs are around $7.50 in combo deals, is the M3 PMAG worth the higher price?
Which would be better to keep loaded at 28 for extended periods of time?
Which should I stock up on while mags are decently priced right now?
Thanks all
I buy NHMTG/Okay Surefeeds and usually load those to 28. I often load Pmags to 30 however. I'm using a mix of sand and black Gen 3s for my Pmags that get left loaded, with my Gen 2's generally being range mags at the current time.
Mags are fine leaving them loaded with 28 rounds for an extended period of time.
I have primarily Magpul Gen 2 and D&H magazines.
For how most are using magazines there's not much benefit to the gen 3 Magpul magazines.
If you have the money to buy magazines, now is a great time as prices are great and I don't expect the political climate to remain the same forever.
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Sancho Panza
11-13-17, 06:40
None. All mine are loaded with 30, or 20: USGI 30's & 20's, Thermolds, all but 14 Pre-ban.
Never had a problem leaving USGI mags loaded or PMAGs.
Definitely used USGI mags in combat that were loaded by a previous unit and stored in an ammo can in my vehicle. No clue at all how long they were left loaded, but at least for a year by the time we ended up using them. Ran fine.
I’ve used green follower gray mags loaded to thirty after a year or more of storage overseas (hot, dusty) with no issues. Suppressed and unsuppressed. Springs get worn out by cycles rather than continuous loading.
Buy a good mag and go with it. I just bought another 10 Okay Surefeeds for $100. PMags work too, and I keep 14 of them loaded in an ammo can.
In the year 2017, the age-old myth of having to load your magazines to 28 rounds for reliability is dead.
Long live the PMAG.
In the year 2017, the age-old myth of having to load your magazines to 28 rounds for reliability is dead.
Same for leaving the mag loaded will wear out the springs. Springs only wear out from being cycled.
Only thing I noticed in terms of "Reliability" is how much force is needed to seat the mag.
Some lowers have no issues whether bolt is open or closed. Many have some tightness when the bolt is closed and download to avoid needing a slap tap.
Some people's preferences. I download mine anyways. I can load them quietly and still do a push pull without feeling like I really needta bang on the mag. Although, I don't download my pistol mags and yet could make that same argument... So... I dunno...
I keep all my mags loaded. But, considering it's only about 30, it's not so many in the great aspect of things. But, I gottem stacked in the safe. I just never found any reason to keep em empty when they take up just as much space loaded. Nah mean?
YMMV.
Springs wear out from use. Loading and storing them won’t bother them.
Mr. Goodtimes
11-13-17, 11:08
All of this has been discussed ad nauseam. I️ would encourage you search the topic as there is a plethora of information on here regarding your exact question.
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Theoretically, feed lips can open up.
Some people have tested this and seems to be a non-issue, but pmags have the lids, which is a nice option imo.
Al mags don’t seem to have an issue either, the few Ives used worked fine with 30rds loaded.
GeneralPurpose
11-13-17, 13:22
30 round magazines should have 30 rounds in them. In my experience, D&H USGI mags have been 100% reliable for several thousand rounds from multiple rifles. Magpul gen 2 had problems with the area behind the feed lips interfering with the bolt catch. Lancers had problems feeding.
There's no reason to deviate from USGI mags in my opinion. Gen 3 PMAGs were supposed to correct the issue that I had. I haven't used them because I switched to USGI and didn't look back.
The bigger issue is being able to stuff more rounds into the mag than the mag was designed for, and not having the ability to seat the mag into the weapon on a closed bolt (i.e. tac reload).
not having the ability to seat the mag into the weapon on a closed bolt (i.e. tac reload).
The answer to this is "gym".
Funny, I guess, but not correct. When a mag is overstuffed, there is no more room to displace the bolt carrier (push down the round stack). The spring and follower are bottomed out against the floor plate. It's not exactly a strength issue unless the operator cannot seat a properly loaded mag.
The answer to this is "gym".
Do you mean in context of Gen 2 PMAGs, or all 30rd AR mags?
This issue extends way beyond just AR mags, but in the context of this thread, I am referring to all mags that can take 31 but not allow any more compression. Some can and some can't. Try it out sometime. Some people can stuff in 31 and seat/wrestlefuk their mag on a closed bolt. However, it's not ideal.
I meant while loaded to 30 as intended, I have never seen a mag not seat on a closed bolt. I've heard of people downloading to 28rds to overcome their inability to push-pull a mag into place, and thought that was what was being advocated.
And absolutely; overstuffing a magazine will do exactly what you said. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.
Load to 26, to 28, or to 30.
I'm sure everyone will be fine, regardless of which they choose.
Personally if I'm leaving an AR magazine loaded indefinitely, I load metal mags to 28 and PMAGs (with covers) to capacity.
If I'm in the upper left corner of the chart and hit the 0.000342% chance that I'm killed because of the lack of those 2 rounds, o ****ing well - it was as likely operator error as those 2 rounds.
Sorry, if we disconnected for a moment there too. I hope someone got something out of it anyways. :meeting:
I meant while loaded to 30 as intended, I have never seen a mag not seat on a closed bolt. I've heard of people downloading to 28rds to overcome their inability to push-pull a mag into place, and thought that was what was being advocated.
And absolutely; overstuffing a magazine will do exactly what you said. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-13-17, 15:09
If you are loading on a closed bolt, it won't matter if you have a mag loaded to 28 or 30, it will still require a little extra force to insert.
If you are loading a mag on an open bolt, it wont matter if you have 28 or 30 loaded, it will be very easy to insert.
I used to load to 27. But now I load to 30, lancers are my go to mag. But I use a variety of mags for training.
Sancho Panza
11-13-17, 17:35
Use 3 x USGI stripper clips per to avoid 31 mistake. :cool:
Use 3 x USGI stripper clips per to avoid 31 mistake. :cool:
Fwiw, the top round being on the right is an easy way to tell.
Sancho Panza
11-13-17, 20:50
True, dat, & left on the New EPMs, I think; don't have any, yet...
Fwiw, the top round being on the right is an easy way to tell.
That depends on the magazine.
Where is the best (least expensive) place to get the NHMTG mags?
Hammertime
11-13-17, 22:46
Where is the best (least expensive) place to get the NHMTG mags?
They used to go for $8 bucks, but now they are high.
I have used and currently own: KAC, OKInd, Pmags, Hexmags, Armalite, H&K MR556 mags, Lancer, Armatac, and more. The only mags I have sent back are CProducts and ProMag - I don't fool with either of those trash or Tapco either. After Obummer went in I bought a case of 100 CProducts mags. They were so poorly made and buggy that they went back immediately.
Dang, I wanna buy some mags now.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition,
HT
They were never cheap, but they can be found at 44mag.com for a reasonable price.
https://www.44mag.com/product/okay-industries-ar15-magazine-30-round/223_ar15_magazines
Where is the best (least expensive) place to get the NHMTG mags?
True, dat, & left on the New EPMs, I think; don't have any, yet...
Tan follower USGI mags have the top round on the wrong side, like some sort of commie gun.
Sancho Panza
11-14-17, 07:04
Thanks, don't have any of those either, yet.
Diamondback
11-14-17, 09:33
I keep all my mags loaded. But, considering it's only about 30, it's not so many in the great aspect of things. But, I gottem stacked in the safe. I just never found any reason to keep em empty when they take up just as much space loaded. Nah mean?
Cans take space, mags take space, mag pouches/carriers take space, stripper clips take space, ammo takes space. Might as well "stack" things to reduce the total storage space needed when you can, right?
They were never cheap, but they can be found at 44mag.com for a reasonable price.
https://www.44mag.com/product/okay-industries-ar15-magazine-30-round/223_ar15_magazines
Thanks!
That depends on the magazine.
I thought all AR mags were like that. (My ak mags are top round left at 30).
What AR mags are left top round at 30 or is it follower dependent? Any info is appreciated as all mags I’ve used for the AR have been the same.
No. And I am 99% sure I made a post a while back discussing this. The Army currently is on Gen 4 of the aluminum magazine. Starting with the Gen 3 magazine (standard aluminum body with a yellow-tan follower) they reinvented the wheel and switched the guide round to the opposite side. Almost all other made USGI and commercial type magazines follow the original right side guide round method.
I thought all AR mags were like that. (My ak mags are top round left at 30).
What AR mags are left top round at 30 or is it follower dependent? Any info is appreciated as all mags I’ve used for the AR have been the same.
I thought all AR mags were like that. (My ak mags are top round left at 30).
What AR mags are left top round at 30 or is it follower dependent? Any info is appreciated as all mags I’ve used for the AR have been the same.
I’ll have to check when I get home later but I’m pretty sure the tangodown mags I have have the top round on the left in addition to the newer gen gi mags
Cans take space, mags take space, mag pouches/carriers take space, stripper clips take space, ammo takes space. Might as well "stack" things to reduce the total storage space needed when you can, right?
Exactly my thoughts on these topics. ;)
Thanks guys(wasn’t doubting you gtf). I haven’t used tango down, nor the tan followers so that explains it.
...and IG, I somehow missed that post.
Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and others in their league teach loading to 28.
Something about reloading on a closed bolt under stress, while nearly exhausted, on the two-way range, when wounded and returning fire flat on your belly.
One point was certain, no way i was going to tell Larry Vickers he needed to visit the gym more frequently.
Sancho Panza
11-15-17, 23:11
What does the Army teach?
Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and others in their league teach loading to 28.
Something about reloading on a closed bolt under stress, while nearly exhausted, on the two-way range, when wounded and returning fire flat on your belly.
One point was certain, no way i was going to tell Larry Vickers he needed to visit the gym more frequently.
Nothing against those guys, but they also grew up in a generation where that was much more necessary. If 20+ years of experience taught me something, I’d probably be skeptical to change it too. Doesn’t mean that it is still the case.
What does the Army teach?
Depends on who in the army. There is no official stance.
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Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and others in their league teach loading to 28.
Something about reloading on a closed bolt under stress, while nearly exhausted, on the two-way range, when wounded and returning fire flat on your belly.
One point was certain, no way i was going to tell Larry Vickers he needed to visit the gym more frequently.
FWIW
Pat McNamara states in the first hour or so of a class to load to 30 because stripper clips don't come in 10-10-8 and if you can't seat a mag, go to the gym. The serious side is that he wants as many rounds as possible in his rifle.
Almost verbatim, but it's been a few years. From my own experiences, I agree with Mac and I personally have never had a problem seating a 30rd mag on a closed bolt in either training or combat.
Thanks guys(wasn’t doubting you gtf). I haven’t used tango down, nor the tan followers so that explains it.
...and IG, I somehow missed that post.
It's all good brother. We don't know what we don't know, and if you have a system that works, stick with it. I guess the point is to just know your equipment above all else.
Hello
I don't know how active Ken is on the current instruction circuit. Last time i spoke with him was in late 2013. I believe he is now in his late 60s. He does seem to keep up with current kit and i recall him recommending Lanser mags in addition to mapgul. Just a few years ago he remained in demand with various mil and LEO tac-units.
Larry was of course delta and is younger. Certainly the gear and TTPs have evolved since he was AD. Its been a few years since i was on AD and even though I was not an instructor i can't help thinking that the core knowledge and systems themselves remain valid from just a short time ago.
Lots of combat experience out there and i will not argue the point but in the middle east is a pmag with 30 rds i left in the dark because i failed to seat it on the move.
To make up for the 10-12 rounds short I simply put an extra pmag in my thigh pocket.
Thanks, I'm out
GeneralPurpose
11-16-17, 01:02
Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and others in their league teach loading to 28.
Something about reloading on a closed bolt under stress, while nearly exhausted, on the two-way range, when wounded and returning fire flat on your belly.
One point was certain, no way i was going to tell Larry Vickers he needed to visit the gym more frequently.
Anecdote.
Unless you have statistical information to show that more people have been killed because they didn't have the wherewithal to seat a 30 round magazine on a closed bolt while they were under stress, nearly exhausted, on a two-way range, wounded, and returning fire while flat on their bellies because of the additional force required to seat a magazine loaded to 30 rounds rather than 28 rounds than the number of people killed because they had 28 rounds rather than 30 rounds in their reload magazines, you merely have an unproven anecdote.
What does the Army teach?
As far as Army mag loading goes:
As late as 2005, lots of us, myself included, loaded 28 based on superstition that we had picked up from the older guys. This was not doctrine. There was a belief that the extra tension would reduce reliability.
A year later, this practice was a thing of the past. (In my unit). I also started loading 30 around 2006. I just got out in 2016, and haven’t known a doorkicker to download mags in a very long time. I don’t think loading 30 even requires an extra trip to the gym, and I taught my guys that it was a non-issue. If I’m in a rush, I’m likely reloading from BHO. I don’t feel there is a downside to loading 30.
I don’t think there is a casualty count associated with either practice.
titsonritz
11-16-17, 20:03
No. And I am 99% sure I made a post a while back discussing this. The Army currently is on Gen 4 of the aluminum magazine. Starting with the Gen 3 magazine (standard aluminum body with a yellow-tan follower) they reinvented the wheel and switched the guide round to the opposite side. Almost all other made USGI and commercial type magazines follow the original right side guide round method.
I'm 100% sure you did.
Generation 4 USGI Magazine (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?197739-Generation-4-USGI-Magazine&highlight=follower)
The body is an FDE color and features a blue anti-tilt follower. Following the footsteps of their previous magazine boondoggle they are continuing with the reversed follower design.
Dr. Bullseye
11-16-17, 22:25
On a trip I recently used Brownell's Technical 30 round magazines with Magpul followers and silicon springs and Ranger Plates. These were flawless with everything, loading, inserting the magazine, ejecting, all being so easy and pleasant. This magazine was originally based on a design they were trying to sell to the US military. Brownells made the additions based on what people asked for. I have no idea how they will work in combat but fore me it was a very nice experience.
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